EK and Fatigue related ASRs.

[Plank Cap]

Hats off and congratulations to those filing Air Safety Reports recently regarding the lack of suitable inflight rest now being offered in business class seats on augmented flights. In true arrogant EK Management style, each of those ASRs is responded to with words to the effect that 'Fleet Management consider the allocated seat adequate for inflight rest'. Perhaps they would like to join us on some of those operations affected by this recent demented policy change, to enable them to discover the true meaning of the word adequate.....

What is apparent though, is that EK's collection of many years' worth of fatigue related ASRs is not quite the answer. They do of course have to be filed, if only to provide statistical evidence of the issue. However, more importantly is that they have to be supported with associated evidence to ever have a chance of garnering change. For example, if such onboard fatigue relates to dozing off on the approach then this needs to be stated, as does omitting checklists, radio calls, reduction in situational awareness, handling lapses etc. If such flights lead to cumulative fatigue, do not operate your next duty. In fact, you have a legal obligation not to, and the docs at the clinic will support you. Make full use of the roster code SKF - you are not sick, but fatigued.

A collection of ASRs in most developed country airlines usually does the trick, but here things have to be backed up with some more positive considerations. It's not being anti-company, it's not illegal and you owe it to your friends and family not to let this job screw you into the ground. Most of all, you owe it to yourself.

[Andu]

'morning Al.

[Red Hackle]

Surprised it didn't end with a "Toodle Pip".

[emratty]

Or "please call me captain" :rolleyes:

[mensaboy]

I agree with you 100% Plank. Not sure if the previous 3 posts were meant in humor or not, hope so. This latest policy change is illegal, immoral and unsafe. Even though Ed and TCAS are.......... well you know........ I still find it hard to believe they can support such insanity.

We have only one recourse, ASR's.

The management of this company uses each period with high pilot applications, to further erode our T&C's. That says a lot about what they think of us and our profession. We just have to accept most things or leave, but when it comes to flight safety and our health, that is going way too far.

[kingoftheslipstream]

Mensaboy

If you subscribe to EK330 Captain on the Yahoo! Groups you would've noticed some interesting posts there regarding this situation... all in all it's still not amountin' to more than a hill of beans, but that's the background.

One of our esteemed colleagues is gettin' a bit verbose and posted some direct quotes from the ASR's in an effort to create a bit of interest in this matter.

Unfortunately his tone, argument, and persuasion are a burr under the saddle to some of our other esteemed colleagues... (me included) so those first few posts are referin' to that little matter. Also, he's bein' taken to task a bit by his peers fer violatin' company regs wrt sharing information to be held in corporate confidence. His intentions are good, but this kind of approach is all wrong and just don't advance our cause too well.

As we all know, EK management is masterful at exploitin' all the loopholes and the global regulatory bodies aren't helpin' us either. There aren't any actual regulations governin' what constitutes a proper crew rest area. The guidelines which do exist are in the form of FAA/GCAA/JAR Circulars and do not meet the authority criteria to become mandatory and are therefore not enforceable in any way shape or form. So we are treated like poor relatives who are begrudgingly given a place to crash on the couch... inference being they would rather we weren't here at all... I have been through the books on this, as much as one can here without drawing attention to oneself, cause we ain't allowed to approach GCAA without permission, (there's no legal protection for whistleblowers anyway) and it costs 1200 Dhs or so to avail yerself of the UAE CARS, and one don't dare visit one's CP or any other senior post holder in Flt Ops, 'cause they're all a bunch of sycophantic self servin' career minded types who view any form of constructive adherance to higher than cheapest/minimum standard to be a violation of their post holder responsibilities. :rolleyes: what to do?, what to do?

Goddamn it's dispiriting, but TCAS and Mr Ed sure know how to exploit and as much as I hate being on the receivin' end I begrudgingly admit defeat on this issue. 100 million ASRS ain't gonna change a damn thing in this case. Those boys did their homework and we're screwed ladies 'n gents. Commercial expediency has always trumped safety - regulators, airframers, management, lawyers and insurance underwriters are all in cahoots on this. We've been outgunned fer good. :(

Happy contrails
k-o-t-s

[fourgolds]

I think ASR,s are actually the answer. If you are fatigued file one. An official record advising management of the problem is what is required. If they are obstinate enough to assume this is some sort of industrail action then they are foolish. An international court would not look favourably on a flight opps management team who did not listen to the outcrys of fatigue coming from their pilots. ( in the event of a major incident). Believe me they know and to no uncertian extent. They have an accountability and they know it. So if you really feel fatigued then file those ASR,s. Its the professional thing to do and has nothing to do with the erosion of conditions and is clearly an Air Safety issue.

[Trader]

Wait till they start paying us just for the stick time. This issue will seem small in comparison!!!

[YYZguy]

K.O.T.S. - While you are correct on many points I must say I'm surprised that you'll just "roll over" and admit defeat on this. ASR's are there for a reason; if it's unsafe, report it. At the very least there will be a paper trail if we bend an airplane due to fatigue. Please don't encourage fellow pilots to just give in to managment's silly policies, the last thing we need are indifferent and impartial crews. I say keep those ASR's comin'!
As Winston Churchill said, "Never, never, never give up".

YYZguy.

[fatbus]

He's not saying dont submit the ASR's just dont except much to change as a result of those ASR's. What is the illegal part?

[GoreTex]

red hackle and emiratty,

you crack me up.

toodle pip
call me captain (otherwise I report you like the cabin crew who didnt adress me as captain)

[pool]

It's elementary ....
They created a piece of art to protect their a...es, with the AOM, FOM, whatever you may call it.
We are simply foreced to play the same game, -> to protect ours.
ASRs, ASRs, ASRs (sounds familiar if pronounced fast enough, doesn't it)

If in future you sc..w up the slightest bit (god forbid), they won't miss you! BUT, ... with zillions of ASRs filed, you can then say you were fatigued and would have posted another ASR. The overwhelming evidence of preceding ASRs might even get you legally out of the mess!!
But with none written, there's only evidence AGAINST you.

[Plank Cap]

Apologies if my initial post came across as rather too abrasive for some, no offence intended. With reference to the first 3 replies, I think you may have the wrong person.........

[fourgolds]

Pool has hit the nail on the head.
If management attempt to put out this fire by suffixing all fatigue related ASR,s with '"Fleet find the rest acceptable" and there is a history to indicate otherwise. Then they will be held to account and any pilot will have a strongly documented case to his/her defense , should they need it. This is a gift horse , kinda like a joker card or even a get out of jail free card. :):):)

[EGGW]

Plank Cap is not, like he says who you think he is.

Toodle pip.

Or me either

EGGW

[GoreTex]

is toodle pip the new captain england?

[Aircav]

Apparently, on some flights they are now upgrading Pax to first class to provide us with seats in business. This is a great example of their tyranical mindset. What is a great pity is that they are not even clever enough to realise the damage the are causing along with the complete lack of respect they are generating for themselves.

If we are not getting adequate rest I feel that we are duty bound to take matters into our own hands. File an ASR, upgrade yourself and then insist on an F class seat for the way back on the grounds of SAFETY, all in accordance with the authority granted to you in the FOM.

Yes, you will have to meet the Muppets, but use their argument against them, "It is in the FOM" and "I am only applying a higher safety standard".

They are banking on everyone blowing hot air and taking no action as usual. Stand up and be counted!!!!!

[BIKKERDENNAH]

no Worries!!

you First!!:e

[FcU]

not one minute of discretion EVER!!!

[Wiley]

Let me guess, FcU... Still fondly imagining what that fourth bar will look on those broard, manly shoulders?