New Zealand ATC jobs

[JAGH]

Hi there thinking of leaving the emerald isle and considering different options. Anybody with prior or current experience of working as a Controller in NZ, what are airways NZ like as an employer,does salary give a good standard of living there etc, all advice appreciated.

[DTLP]

The salary is what is referred to as a Lifestyle Salary. They pay you a mediocre salary because the lifestyle here is so good. You'll live a comfortable existence but nothing special.

[divingduck]

Talk to the new trainee on Team 5 (I think).
He has just arrived from NZ by way of Muscat, he will have all the details you need.

[niknak]

What about residency/nationality requirements?

I qualify through family connections for normal residency requirements, but apparantly that wasn't good enough when I made enquiries a couple of years ago about emigrating and working as an atco in NZ.

[nelsonmadiba]

When I applied and took the interview,I was told that they will provide for your "sponsorship" to allow to move,live and work there (i'm italian with no nz or oz passport).

they said it would have been a provisional visa (or better probationary) for the first 2 years,but after that it would have become unrestricted.

that was 2 years ago if i'm not mistaken

grtz

[scarface claw]

You need to ask a lot more questions!! Why are staff continuing to leave?? Last heard 2 have given 4 weeks notice. Others are pending! The CEO was heard to say that "they have a crisis but they have worked through it before".
They are running the system on recalls (call back from off duty time). Many years ago they gained an extra 16 days off when given a 4/2 roster system, based on the need to have "rest and recuperation" but now many staff are working 13 of those days. Ask yourself if that is good for your lifestyle.

[Red Dragon]

Ok, I'll bite. So why are they leaving and where are they going? I know some have come here to the Gulf but that would only account for a few.
Is it pay related or working conditions? From what I have heard the pay, despite the relative cost of living, is pretty poor when compared to other providers.

:rolleyes:

[DTLP]

correct, in fact pathetic in comparison.

[zkpjm]

Is it pay related or working conditions? From what I have heard the pay, despite the relative cost of living, is pretty poor when compared to other providers.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Are you suggesting the relative cost of living is cheap/reasonable? If so then you need to do some more homework as the cost of living is actually extremely high.

Why did I leave? Several reasons the first being it was time to broaden my and my family's horizons but I wouldn't have entertained doing so unless there was a financial reward so certainly the fact that I am able to earn twice my NZ salary overseas (tax free) was also a big incentive.

[Spuds McKenzie]

Salary: low

Cost of living: high

Traffic levels: low

Income tax: high

Airways as an employer: Airservices Australia are worse, others are better

Biggest disadvantage IMHO: It's the end of the world (geographically speaking that is)

[ER_BN]

Spuds,

Nothing like telling it like it is!

But hey coming back from NZ to YBBN recently, and finding BN getting a bit metropolitan, now I understand the term GODZONE.

Still reminded me of a joke about us controllers that can be translated into one of our Global Recruits in OZ doing an exit interview when realising controlling in OZ has some shortcomings....

OZ ATC Manager: Okay, I understand why you are going back to Europe re salaries etc, but how would you rate us as an ANSP?

Ex Global: You are the second best in the world!

Stupid OZ ATC Manager: Oh, okay, that's nice of you to say that. Who's better than us??

Ex Global: Everyone else......

[garargefire]

"Airways as an employer: Airservices Australia are worse, others are better"

I have the option of applying to be a ATC trainee via Airways or Airservices. Why wouldn't you go through Airservices Oz? Everything that I've read says Airservices are the better crowd to go with but I'm skeptical. I love NZ but I want dont' want to settle for second best either. If you were in my shoes what would you be concentraing on getting into - NZ or OZ?

[conflict alert]

They are running the system on recalls (call back from off duty time). Many years ago they gained an extra 16 days off when given a 4/2 roster system, based on the need to have "rest and recuperation" but now many staff are working 13 of those days. Ask yourself if that is good for your lifestyle.

Recalls are voluntary!!!! If its not 'good for your lifestyle' as you put it, then it's your own greed for money which has caused it.

It's interesting to note that its the same few names who post a doom and gloom reply to a 'working in NZ' type query. Perhapes you should talk to the other 300 odd controllers who seem quite content with working and living here. It's also interesting to talk to some of the recent imports who say that the T and C's and living here aren't that bad actually to what they have been used to.

At the end of the day it's what you make of it.

[Spuds McKenzie]

If you were in my shoes what would you be concentraing on getting into - NZ or OZ?

Neither. :hmm: (Seriously)

[slackie]

Recalls are voluntary!!!!

Actually they are NOT voluntary...Airways can require up to 1 recall in 10 days or 2 in 36 days...anything in excess of this is voluntary.

[conflict alert]

Actually they are NOT voluntary...Airways can require up to 1 recall in 10 days or 2 in 36 days...anything in excess of this is voluntary.

Never heard of anyone being forced to do a recall in the 28yrs I've been in the industry mate. Seen the VERY ODD rostered recall where the punter gets plenty of notice.

Actually they are NOT voluntary.....anything in excess of this is voluntary.

Make up ya mind.

Airways can require up to 1 recall in 10 days or 2 in 36 days

I think you will find the 1 in 10, 2 in 36 is mainly used for the purposes of who is next to be OFFERED a recall. Then again, you probably haven't had much exposure to recalls or how it works having only worked in a domestic tower.

[zkjaws]

Back in the days of "The War" (95/96) I'm pretty sure the company tried to force people to do recalls.

Slackie has got it right - your editing makes it seem otherwise.
"Recalls over the 1 in 10, 2 in 36 requirement are Voluntary"

It just happens that the pay rates are so low that people are looking to do as many recalls as possible to supplement their income.
That gives the compulsory requirement the illusion of being voluntary.

Read your collective agreement more closely and you will see that Slackie is right.

[conflict alert]

Riiiiiiight

I'm not disputing what the CEC reads and I'm sure the original poster isn't too interested in what the T and C's were 14-15 years ago! Since you have mentioned it though - if that's the only occasion you can think of where Airways 'TRIED' to force people to come to work on recalls - then you prove my point, I have never heard of anyone being forced to come to work on an off duty day.

your editing makes it seem otherwise.

The original poster asked what it was like to work here.
One of the replies intimated that staff were MADE to work 13 recalls per year. I was merely pointing out that this was not the case. Sure - CEC implies that Airways can require someone to do a recall 1 in 10 or 2 in 36, but I have never seen it accept for the odd rostered recall which has generally been with the agreement of the individual concerned.

The 1 in 10 or 2 in 36 is generally used to determine who is first in line to be OFFERED a recall from the daily recall list. There are some ATCO's who NEVER work recalls - their choice.

It just happens that the pay rates are so low that people are looking to do as many recalls as possible to supplement their income.

Is it? - or is it the fact that a recall is very lucrative. I'm on the top step admittedly but one recall can be almost enough for a 5 or 7 day travel deal to OZ or a Pacific Island, I don't call that greed, or because my salary is low - I call it common sense!! Not bad for a 7.5 hour day which should have been off duty but it was pissing down with rain so I CHOSE to go to work after being OFFERED a recall.

And then if you CHOOSE to do a recall and your feeling a bit fatigued by the end of a work cycle - you can have a sick day!! And hey...you don't even lose any money for going sick because of the AIL based system.

As I said previously - its what you make of it and if staff think the money is crap or the T and C's are crap, well then bugger off and do something else. Wonder why they don't though!! Maybe because its not that bad after all, who knows.

A number of posters keep saying how bad it is here compared to the rest of the world. Take away the Sandpit - that's a given yep big money. Would anyone now care to give examples of locations where Cost of Living, ATC salary and T and C's are significantly better?? There must be a heap of them if NZ ranks so poorly!

How much you earn certainly depends on whether you as an individual choose to stay in the tower or move through to radar and on to a TMA sector. I can understand that and I know that starting salaries are pretty low when compared to other industry jobs. Personally, I have never felt hard done by - I've stuck out 28years so far and enjoy it. With a bit of OJTI I can clear almost 4k a fortnight - throw in a recall as well, throw on top of that a Public holiday - I'll let you do the maths!! I don't think that's too bad at all really!! And that DOESN"T include Airways contribution to my super!! But that's just my opinion. As I keep saying - its what you make of it.

[zkjaws]

I was replying to your attack on Slackie, who was correctly quoting what can be enforced. You may find that some regional controllers have been required to work recalls, or even change their off duty days to make the roster work.

Having stuck it out with Aunty Airways for 27 years and suffered the big losses incurred by it's Super scheme (-17% for a few years). I moved to pastures browner and now greener.

I now earn twice as much as I did with Aunty as a TMA controller (= I save twice as much), have more time off and work less.
You do the maths

[conflict alert]

I now earn twice as much as I did with Aunty as a TMA controller (= I save twice as much), have more time off and work less.
You do the maths

Presume you are converting your salary to NZD otherwise you would be indicating a salary around 300,000 pounds!

Presuming you had stayed here and you say 27yrs, then you would be on or very close to the top step by now and average between the 140-150k mark depending on the sector AIL, OJTI, etc. Given the current exchange rate at .45 that would indicate you earn around the 130,000 pound mark (to earn twice as much). I'm surprised there hasn't been an influx of English ATCO's at that salary! So to be as better off as you say the tax would have to be alot lower, and you would certainly have to get more value for your pound over there vs our NZD here ie what you can buy for 1 pound there and what you can buy for 1 dollar here etc.

On average I would say actual time on position per shift would be around 6 hours - a lot less in the weekends so you would have to do less than that and better than our 2 on 1 off roster concept. You must have better than 33 annual leave, 11 stat, and 5 shift workers leave ie 49 days off.

So, assuming your not exaggerating at all, then we have 2 locations outside of NZ which have much better salaries and T and C's and better cost of living.

Good for you on making the move but it still doesn't make, IMHO, NZ as one of the lowest ranked places to work 'in the world', as some posters seem to attest to.

There you go - I've done the math, and I wasn't attacking Slackie, merely clarifying my point.

[slackie]

Conflict Alert...
As you quite rightly mention, I have only worked in the Regional business, but your posts suggest that you are quite out of touch with what ACTUALLY happens in Regional. The company OFTEN relies on the lack of knowledge that many new controllers have of the CEA, and their goodwill (if there is any) to make the roster work. Many problems that arise stem from breeches of the contract. What is printed in the CEA is all that matters. The company can REQUIRE you to work 1 in 10, 2 in 36....PERIOD.:ugh: If staff have to resort to taking sick leave to avoid fatigue then that is hardly a healthy way to run a business.

[zkjaws]

CA
You have done some maths but used all the wrong figures
I get paid in Euros - averaging 2 NZD to 1 Euro
I have been gone for nearly 3 years now, and would be suprised if I would be earning much more than NZD130K if I had stayed. And that would be with about 10 recalls per year.
I have volunteered to do recalls where I am now, and got paid 4K just for putting my hand up - I will also get double Euros for the 4 or 5 recalls I may do in a year.
My current leave entitlement is almost exactly the same as NZ.
We do have a roster system better than 2 to 1 - it's 5 to 3.
I would bet that I am on position less than half the time I am work - that would be significantly less than 6 hours a day. All breaks are at least 30 minutes (10-20 minutes in NZ), and lunch is 1 to 1.5 hours (30-60 minutes in NZ).
I only pay 1.5% towards my pension - not 6% into a lump sum loss making super scheme
I may spend 1 Euro to buy something you get here for 1 NZD, but everying I save (which is more than I used to) is in Euros (remember 2 to 1)
Redo you maths and see what you think now

Many of my current work mates have asked about the NZ T's & C's, they are interested until they find out what they will get paid.

And I get to come home for a month of flying and summer weather

Life is Grand

[conflict alert]

Firstly I must apologize - I typed 33 instead of 31 for the annual leave.

Slackie, rumour has it you are moving to Oceanic - you will soon see how it works outside of regional.

ZKJAWS - as I said - good for you for making the move and yes you would be on at least 130k - if you were a TMA controller as you say you would be close to if not on the top step given the years you mentioned. The top step is basic around the 105k (dont have the exact figure with me) with another pay rise and STEP pending. We now have a step 21. Add to this your AIL (just use 30% as a round figure) gives you 136500k and that doesn't include your recalls or public holidays.

[slackie]

CA...yet again you are listening to the wrong rumour mill!

[conflict alert]

Don't you know your moving!!:}

[tred]

ZKJAWS

Reading the Irish ATC topic at the moment doesn't sound like its quite as 'rosey' as you make it out to be.

[slackie]

They'll be mgmt cars!!

[Number Last]

Jeez Jawz, given the circumstances you left the sandpit under and the way your new employer is treating Irish ATCO's in the media I would have thought Airways would have been the best ANSP you've worked for. :E

[zkjaws]

Airways treated their controllers in the media exactly the same way the Irish are now.
I believe that recently there has been a less than complementary article about ATCO,s in a national NZ paper, which was sanctioned by Airways Communications Department. Nothing changes.

As for the way I was treated at the end of my last employment - it wasn't much different from the way I was treated at Airways. At least the Omani's let me keep my headset, ID and access cards until after my shift had finished.

[garargefire]

Zkjaws,

How long were you at Airways for? I don't mean to pry but as someone who's starting out (applying) it would be good to know what I'm in for.
Do you know if in NZ you have to serve for 5yrs like they do in Oz? I don't want to get ahead of myself but it's good to know the bigger picture if you know what I mean.

If there's anything you (or anyone else) can tell me about working for Airways I'd be very appreciative.

[SGT Schulz]

Can any current NZ ATCO provide current payscales and leave figures for Tower and APP. Also association fees.
Thanks in advance!

[The Rottweiler]

JAGH

Not sure if the above comments have helped you!

Conflict Alert obviously loves the place:D

Others are slightly more realistic............

Our salary scales are pretty open and easy to see, whats much harder to clarify is our cost of living and this is where I suggest you concentrate your research! NZ is a beaut place but it is becoming an expensive place to live. Controller life styles here are good when compared to a local factory worker for example but I know that controllers elsewhere do much better.

Having said that the place is becoming flooded with overseas controllers, such that within 10 years they will probably end up outnumbering the kiwis? It will be interesting to see how many elect to stay long term versus those that drift back overseas to earn more cash:ok:

Hope this helps

The Rottweiler

[conflict alert]

Conflict Alert obviously loves the place

Not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. My posts above were regarding the comment on recalls and then questioning one of the posts that said they were alot better off by doing a comparison. And you probably work at the centre so you must agree with my comments regarding the way recalls are worked surely?

[Howling Dog]

Hi I'm new to pprune but have been around a while in NZ. Regarding the posts by Conflict Alert, Slackie and Rotweiler, I would note a thing or two.

One, recalls are regarded as compulsory by the company but in fact anyone with a set of nuts can decline one by using caller ID and not answering the phone, or simply by advising they are fatigued. In they push it, simply ask for the instruction in writing, including an acknowledgement that you are fatigued and are doing the recall under duress. The problem then goes away.......

Two, Conflict Alert has led a sheltered existence if he/she thinks Airways has not used threats (up to dismissal) to coerce people to do recalls. I can recall up to a dozen of these situations including one of personal experience.

Three - NZ ATC is what it is. The pay is ok - no more, the country is what you make of it if a bit provincial, there are worse employers than Airways - though they don't know much about running an ATC system. The prime concern by the company seems to be that all the equipment looks really cool - too often this overshadows whether it works as advertised........................

Cheers all

[conflict alert]

Conflict Alert has led a sheltered existence

3 domestic towers, 1 international tower, 3 centers (naturally when there were a few more than now!) spanning 28years. Don't think so HD. If you read my original post on page one it was in response to someone commenting on on the number of staff leaving and how the system was being run on recalls. This is a centre issue not a tower - so my opinions expressed were related to the centre, which, I might add, is where most of the imports go and would therefore be of more interest to a prospect than what is currently happening in some of the towers. If you also read my response to Slackie, I mentioned that he worked in domestic - further implying that my opinions expressed related to the centre. Those opinions on how the recalls work stand. I can't imagine anyone getting a call from the admin lady (who gets dumped with this task I might add) telling a staff member 'you must come to work'. And I'm not belittling tower issues either before anyone starts firing from all pistons!

[Howling Dog]

I stand by my statements CA, which are true for tower or centre. True I have not heard of it happening for a year or two as things are pretty "quiet" these days -but threats will be used again as soon as a given manager runs out of tools and is afraid the traffic will stop.

You must know very well that in the centre if the admin lady can't find a shift it gets bucked up to managers inc. Threats are however more prevalent in domestic towers where the **** hits the fan earlier and the managers are brainwashed to keep the place open even if the duty controller has done 10 recalls in the previous month.

It would appear I've been around as long as you have but maybe you aren't close enough to the fray to here these things.

Anyway, this is all getting a bit petty. You stated you had never heard of someone being forced to word a recall. I know that is incorrect. that is really all there is here. Bye

[atcodownsouth]

been reading intently all the comments and thanks to you all for them.

does anyone know where i can find out actual figures re salary/overtime etc?

regards

[redmaori]

I started of in the UK working in the tower/approach for 3 a few years. After that me and my wife decided to give it a go in NZ, we lasted only 11 months, then with my wife being homesick (she's Irish), I got a job in Knock of all places, the idea being that I would hopefully get my foot in the door with the IAA and get a higher paying job. Unfortunately I didn't even get a shot at an interview. The people were brilliant and the west of Ireland is a great place to live but after a year we realised that maybe the grass was'nt quite as green as we thought. So we called our old employers back, cap in hand and we were both accepted back, this time earning more money due to the fact the union had just completed paytalks and the exchange rate was more favourable. This time I was'nt offered a relocation package which I didn't really expect but the package first time round was quite good. If you have any radar experience then you will more than likely be sent to Christchurch, which is called a city but is essentially a large town. The people of canterbury have a reputation as being hard nuts to crack but at Airways their is a friendly atmosphere amongst the staff with plenty of banter. Their is still a bit of us and them with management which can rear its head during paytalks but I think the wounds of the past, which I have no opinion on since I was'nt here, are starting to heal. The roster is genrally 4 on 2 off, each sector has its own hours but we genarally do two lates then two earlies, the idea being that it max's your time off, on a negative you get your roster about 6-8 weeks ahead of time, coming from nats with the rigid 6 on 4 off, I enjoyed being able to plan a year in advance and getting two weeks off, using 6 days leave. However our shifts are no longer than 7 and a half hours, invariably we get away an hour to half an hour early, sometimes longer on the weekends. You can be extended up to a maximum of 9 and half hours but this is voluntary and would only be used if someone has called in sick at the last minute or a replacement can't be found. As far as recalls go, their is no pressure to work them if you don't want to, the only obligation you have is that if you accept them you have to fill the sweetie jar. Some people get annoyed by being asked to work recalls and feel under pressure to work or feel the phonecall is intruding on their day and should'nt be asked at all. As far as the wording of the agreement goes you are making yourself available for the call that will ask whether you can work or not, it is entirely your choice whether you work or not. I have never felt any pressure to take a recall, invariably if I have nothing on, my wifes working and I have something I want to get, I do it, if not I don't. Likewise you call in sick for the day theirs no grilling from your boss the person on the line says " right, feel better" and then goes about getting someone to cover. . As for all the people leaving, it seems ATC the world over are having trouble holding onto the staff, as a non-kiwi I see kiwi's as travellers at heart, not the pike kind but just that part of a kiwi's lifetime experience is the big OE, management have cottoned on to this and seem to accept it as inevitable that staff are going to leave, so as long as people don't leave them in the lurch, i.e leave the next day, it has happened. Then I expect they will welcome you back like they did me. In addition these people bring back experience from working in busier environments. This time round I have been here a year and a half and so far have no plans to move, even if I wanted to it would make sence to stick as moving around every year doesn't look good on your c.v, but the truth be told I like living here. My wife and I live by the beach, I go for a run barefoot with the dog, if the surfs good I go for a surf. I play football with my mates, most are ex-pats so the standards not to bad. In the winter the ski slopes are an hour and a half drive away. On the negative, your salary will afford you a good lifestyle in NZ but if you came for a few years then left bare in mind whatever you have could be cut by 50 or 60 percent once the exchange rate takes over. Also things are expensive in NZ, affordable for you but in relation to the average kiwi its a ripoff. Clothes, eating out, weekly food shop, power bills, travel etc are all the same price as back home but technically more expensive because you earn less, insurance, asian cars, fuel and most importantly homes are cheaper in NZ. With the home front though you have to bear in mind that their are some homes over here that you would'nt house the cows in, central heating is unheard of and double glazing is only just starting to come in. The first time round we were lying in bed with woolly hats on and we could see our breath. Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say that its not perfect but I really like it here, will it be my home for the rest of my life, definately maybe:ok:

[conflict alert]

Welcome redmaori, I was beginning to wonder if anyone was going to back me up regards the recall process. One thing that hasn't been mentioned about the recalls (in the centre) is that you can have your Off Duty and/or Annual Leave days marked with an L which means you are non contactable or not available to work. Those that feel aggrieved at being rung up on OD days as you mention, should take the 2 minutes it would take to tell the admin lady to mark all their OD days with the L whenever the roster gets published for their sector.

[AngeleToR]

Dear colleagues,

I'm a spanish ATC and, as you may have already heard in the media, the situation for us ATCs in my country these days is far away from being 'optimal'.

I have been talking for a while about moving away from the country with my wife and we both have the same point of view... I love my country, but the future I can foresee staying here is not what I have in mind for my two young children when they grow up, so there I go...

I've burned my eyes reading around the web about possible futures, and -believe it or not- the climate is a major issue in the 'selection process'. Being spanish, with such a mild climate, my wife NEEDS sun on her skin or I will suffer the consecuences, so Europe gets inmediatly discarded. My wife is a computer engineer (like me) with years of experience on banking, so I think that we both qualify. Long story short, NZ looks so promising to 'restart' our lifes, grow my children in a safe environment and with good universities and job opportunities once they grow older... I'm not looking for a temporary move, we're not that kind...

I wanted to ask you, New Zealanders, for some help, may you be so kind... Next week I wanted to go to your ambassy to get info about the procedures to migrate and all that stuff, but regarding the job there's no better info that yours. My biggest drawback is my operational english level, being it a bare 4 to 5. Ten years ago, when I began the ATC training course, it was 5 to 6, but I let it rot and my company (believe me!!! :bored:) gave me NO courses to maintain my skills all over this time... I'm pretty sure that in a couple of months living in an english-speaking country I will be back at 5-6 or directly at 6...

Regarding my ATC license, as you may know, in Spain we get trained to work in any of TWR and radar/procedural enroute or APP, and later we receive a local annotation after some OJT so we can finally work in a specific ACC or TWR.

Could you give me some advice with the information I gave you before?? Would the company accept to begin the adaptation training BEFORE my english skills get to six?? Both the company and me would be taking a risk, I understand... As you see, my main concern is with that 6 in english, after two years of training and more than 4 in procedural APP/TWR and right now beginnig training in LECB ACC, the second busiest in Spain, I'm pretty sure about my ATC skills...

Thanks in advance, and hoping to hear from you soon..

Angel

P.S: Now reading my post back, if you read down to this, congrats!!! One more detail for you to see the spanish situation: some days ago, flying here in Spain, the pilots 'accepted' me in the cockpit and during the approach we had a TCAS resolution with another traffic... Taking into account the TCAS equipment on my plane had 6NM resolution (we had no previous advisory, I mean), I can sure you that the other traffic was soooooo near we almost ripped each other's decals off... The maneuver was ugly enough as to make the passengers get sick and some even ducked into their seats... It happened that I knew the ATCs on duty, and they told me that the one at work had NEVER taken a recall (120 hours/month was our contract worktime, recalls apart) and THAT day it was her 12th shift in 12 days, with another 10 more for the next 10 days... := That's about 200 hours/month, with 6 hours shifts, 4-5 free days/month. IMHO, our admin staff has gone crazy with the royal decree and forgot that our bussiness (at least mine) is SAFETY... Sorry for not being more specific about that issue, for obvious reasons... Once the reports get analysed and become public, more could be tell... Maybe this short scary story helps clarify the strong reasons behind my actions, and what it took to finally help me take the final decision...

[siftydog]

Estimado AngeleToR,

I have been out of the NZ ATC scene for a few years now, I can't really comment on the current terms and conditions there apart from what you see already on this thread. I do however fly over your country on an almost daily basis it seems.
Lifestyle and climate wise: NZ is probably the mildest place in the world on both counts. Don't expect anything racey, the North West of Spain looks very much the same in many senses, but at least you get a guaranteed summer in Asturias! The family ties and sense of local community in Spain tend to be much stronger too, curiously reflected in the homicide rates and violent crime, which in Spain are far less per capita.
That being said, the population is NZ is so small unless you live close to a disadvantaged group your chances of harm are probably low!
Madrid has a High Commission rather than an embassy, but I certainly wouldn't rule out a taster by way of a holiday which should include that big lovely western island swarming with flies as well.
I know the crap time you've had in Spanish ATC, but the grass always seems verdant green over the fence, and in the case of NZ it probably is , a peso paraque la lluvia.

[conflict alert]

Angeletor,

I could stand corrected but your posting reeks of fairly good english!! Having said that, to be able to be issued a NZ ATCO licence you must have passed the English Language Proficiency test. This is a CAA (the regulators) requirement, not Airways. I would doubt (but could be wrong) that Airways would employ someone in the 'hope' that their english would come up to speed as time went on. No harm in trying though. Good luck.

PS. even english speaking people must provide evidence to NZ CAA of language proficiency attached to the application for an ATCO Licence. (That's not a trainee licence, but the actual ATC licence)

[AngeleToR]

Thank you for your answers, siftydog and CA...

CA, as I said earlier, my english skills long ago outraged my current ones, but what the heck, if once I could do it, why won't I do it again??? :) I'm thinking about taking a holidays on England, or Ireland, and expend the whole day (and night :cool:) chatting with the 'native' people there... My grammar seems to resist ageing better than my 'speaking'... BCS pilots (my main english-speaking customers) shall give me the reason, and apart from them, my main 'public' is spanish-chatter or french and german VFR pilots that, honestly, I still don't know which language they use to call me... :confused:

CA, you hit the nail regarding the english proficiency test that SHOULD be passed by every ATCO license holder... In spain, the regulator is (almost) the same as the company, so we still haven't gone through the ICAO language tests... But hey, I have a legit ATC license, that I use day after day without the corresponding ICAO language certificate.... How's that possible??? 'Spain is different!!' And this is not the worst issue about the regulator being under the same 'management' as the company, safety gets also compromised, but that's another story for another thread...

So my next milestone, as I though, is improving my english... Thanks for your help and please, don't doubt to add whatever ideas you come up with, I'll be listening to this post...

P.S: CA, something I still haven't found about your country: What about the broadband there??? Let's say in Christchurch, as example and most likely place to live, may I get addmited... My wife and me are computer engineers and we both NEED good broadband and internet access (she needs it to work, I'm just a computer freak ATC, you know... :8)

[conflict alert]

broadband is available but not everywhere in NZ. Christchurch - no problem unless you live somewhere remote in which case there are other options.

[AngeleToR]

Hi again, CA and other kiwis...

I'll be there (in NZ I mean, of course :cool:) by the end of this month, for a couple of weeks at least, to know the country and its people at firsthand, and to prospect the labor market (hopefully as ATC, but not limited to...).

As you can imagine, I've been reading from and talking with people that have been there (on holidays or living short time periods) these last two months and, apart from the fact that NZ is my country's antipode, I've found nothing to keep me (and my family) from trying to start a new life there. Obviously, that depends if we are accepted there, but being IT professionals both my wife and myself (I'm ATC since these last 6 years, so I still remember my previous life) with tons of experience, I'm pretty optimist about our chances as family to get integrated there...

Sooooo, I would like to beg your help, kiwi colleagues, as I would like to meet there with some of you and chat about .... well, everything!!! So little time and so much to do... It will be a great help if any of you accepted to show me your work center (whether it is a TWR or an ACC) and would spend some hours with me answering questions and polishing my 'rusty' english. Of course, I take care of any beverage or food we may need for the task... :ok:

Thanks in advance and you can PM me with any personal data, email, phone number or whatever. BTW, I plan to travel both islands from side to side, so nobody would have to move anywhere, I'll do the travelling.

[Warren...]

Reading though this thread I got the impression from one post that en route salaries fall a fair bit short of tower ones and in another post that tower ones are not as good as the en route ones ... which one is it (I remember trying to look up the salaries in Australia in the new agreement but I was not familiar enough with the acronyms to know which table represented the salary for an ACTO!).


btw - guessing the lovely big fly infested island to the west is Australia? They don't have flies in NZ?

Thanks :)

[conflict alert]

yes we have flies - just not annoying ones that make you want to wear a hat with corks dangling off it.

re the salary

regional towers (Band A), then
international towers and enroute (Band B), then
oceanic (Band C), then
terminal (Band D)

Band A lowest - Band D highest.

Angel - NZ ATC units welcome visitors. Just ring when you are over here to arrange a visit. The main centre is in Christchurch - Oceanic in Auckland. Just ring towers or centre (CH or AA) a day prior and I'm sure it won't be a problem to visit any of them when you are in their particular town/city.

[AngeleToR]

Thank you to guys that answered giving me contact info, you'll get contacted for sure.... :ok:
A bunch of flies won't scare me nor my family. The place were we live right now is beautiful, two minutes walking and you're off the road walking on tracks, pure nature nearby, but hospitals, services and shopping 10 minutes by car. But... we have the most sticky, noisy, awful and naughty flies I've ever seen... There is a cow farm 1Km away, with also a chicken farm side by side, where apart of milk, meat and eggs, they 'manufacture' the nastier flies you can imagine (and from time to time the nastier odors too)... The only 'but' to my current home...
CA, you can bet that I'll be knocking on everyone's doors once I get there, three weeks with me fooling around will make you all wish time flies just to get rid of me... :)
Kind regards, and hoping to meet all you soon, Angel

[Tarq57]

Just one thing it would be wise not to ignore, AngelTor, if you're planning on living here and your wife needs the sunshine, is that there isn't much ozone above NZ (nor parts of Aussie) and sunburn can be a serious problem. The air is clear, there's not much ozone, and in summer burn times are typically about 11 minutes.
This region has one of the highest, if not the highest, skin cancer rates in the world.
I'd treat warnings associated with this seriously, especially in regard to the kids.
Early days yet, for this warning, I know, but forewarned is forearmed. People still sunbathe here, but usually with lots of sunscreen, and not for prolonged periods.

[gate4]

Try Air Traffic Controller Careers with Airways (http://www.airways.co.nz/careers/index.asp)

[AngeleToR]

Tarq57, I've already read about the high UV index in NZ, thank you very much... Luckily for us, being from Spain, we also 'enjoy' lots of sunlight during the summer, and our skin is not as white as european people, we get really tanned really fast. That doesn't mean I spit in the face of danger, my grandfather died with skin cancer, and I have lots of spots in my skin, so we don't play with that. My wife needs, more than sun to be the whole day lying getting tanned, just some months of nice weather, and that those sum more than the 'grey foggy' ones.
Gate4, I've already sent all my data to HHRR staff via that page, back in midde february, but still no answer either way. That's the reason for the trip, showing some REAL interest and having an interview face to face, may the chance arise. Anyway, as I told, ATC is not the only thing I can do, in fact I've got a better curriculum as IT manager than ATC, job that I left to become ATC. Of course I love my current job, but my family is the first for me and if I had to leave control for them, I won't doubt in doing so... In fact, in Spain, I will give it up anyway and return to IT, should we decide to stay or couldn't get a job there... Hard times here, too much pressure and some incredible laws where just culture is just a fancy word void of meaning. Just recall the incredible situation with the two italian ATCOs imprisoned for doing their job, in Spain will be MUCH worse if that ever happens:uhoh:... I don't want to bore you, we can talk about this subjects for hours (with a fresh beer nearby, of course in my account).
Well guys, it's 02.43 local (00.43UTC) in this side of the world, have a good day there and hope to see you soon!!!
Angel

[p_perez]

Hello!

As my collegue AngeleToR, I also gave it a try at NZ (Spain is slowly but steadly shifting to a banana republic :uhoh: ...), but no joy: no vacancies at the present time for my profile. What a pitty: wife was already convinced that it would be a perfect place to begin a new life with the kids!

Saludos!