History Challenge

[andrewmcharlton]

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/andrewmcharlton/Image49.jpgIn the course of researching my family history, I have tracked down some photo's belonging to my Great Grandfather.

He was a Captain in the Northumberland Fusiliers and after the end of hostilities in Europe he was posted to Khartoum.

He took a photo of the event which bears the inscription "The arrival of the first passenger carrying aerplane in Khartoum, dated 15th Jan 1919".

Can anyone help out in the discovery of more information?

Thanks

Andrew

[ICT_SLB]

It looks like a Handley-Page 0-400. This site (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/Handley-page/Aero51.htm) states that several were "converted to passenger carrying with little modification."

[Brian Abraham]

A question that may take some resolution. Certainly an 0/400, but none of the RAF squadrons were posted to Cairo until post the given date, and the passenger version of the aircraft did not see the light of day until December 1919. The RAF did use the aircraft for communication duties, perhaps this one on a trip from the Old Dart.

[andrewmcharlton]

The earliest 0/400 on the register was a batch of 12 ordered under serials B8802-8813 which according to my book of words was built at the RAE with RR Eagle engines and notes that B8806 was converted for mail carrying.

Also confirmed here: Handley Page 0/400 (http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/archive/handley-page-0-400__o_t__t_7420.html)

After that I am struggling for ideas, hope some history buff out there can assist me !

[WHBM]

The HP O/400 was basically a WW1 bomber but found to be readily adaptable to passenger carrying. Some of them were operated by Handley Page themselves as the first airline service from London to Paris in 1919.

It's possible one was operated for the government as far as Khartoum on this occasion. Also possible is that it was a bomber in the photograph, but just regarded as a passenger aircraft by those who knew the conversions being made of the type. The "conversion" seems little more than knocking some windows in the fuselage and putting seats inside.

Handley Page Type O - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Type_O)

Flying it all the way there would be a feat probably documented; I would guess that sea-freighting it out to Egypt and reassembly there would be a likely alternative.

[andrewmcharlton]

My Squadrons of the RAF book suggests 58 Sqdn operating out of Egypt (via Marseille) before re-equipping with Vimy's.

Good call WHBM !

[S'land]

About twenty years ago I was shown a photograph album and diary of a flight from Belgium to Cairo by a friend's grandfather in 1918/19. If my memory is correct the RAF sent a squadron there to help quell the uprising in Egypt. The flight arrived too late to be any use and were sent somewhere else, I thought that it was to Khartoum. I am certain that the aircraft used were O/400's.

Sorry that I cannot remember more details, but it was a long time ago. I don't know if this is any help.

[Brian Abraham]

andrew, I believe we may be onto some thing here. From "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft", Aerospace Publishing Ltd.

Two 0/400's set out for Egypt before the armistice, one arriving in time to serve in the successful campaign through Palestine. This was C9681 which, after arriving in Heliopolis, was attached to no. 1 Squadron, Australian Flying Corps. From Heliopolis it set out on 19 September to attack the Turkish HQ, a successful raid destroying the enemy's means of communications with its 7th and 8th Armies and hastening their demise. But its principal task in the Middle East was as a transport to take supplies and fuel to the advanced airstrip at Azrak (Jordan), where Lawrence of Arabia centred his activities. The second machine, C9700, was too late for the war in Egypt but flew on east to Calcutta, pioneering what was eventually to become the air mail route. It ended its days in India, being wrecked at Lahore.

I wouldn't mind betting it would have been C9681. Certainly not a 58 Squadron aircraft as they didn't arrive in Egypt until middle of 1919, and not a passenger conversion of the 400 as they were not yet built.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Andrew, please downsize your pics to no more than 800 x 600. That size then prevents the page being obliterated on its right side and avoids having to laterally scroll.

Thanks.

[andrewmcharlton]

Done ! Apologies !

I am not sure that those two serials recently mentioned tie up with dates or routes although they could be.

The details of the journeys I have found googling them indicate they may have been elsewhere at that time but little in the way of proof.

Brian,

Do you know what Squadron they were with at the time by chance?

[Brian Abraham]

Has been an interesting dig into history. Can tell why the aircraft was there (at Khartoum), but not which aircraft. A ground survey party had set out from Cairo to map out an air route to South Africa. As the article at
victoria nyanza | cape-cairo air-way | middle east | 1919 | 0775 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1919/1919%20-%200775.html) says
As far south as Khartum Major Long's party had no difficulties; before the New Year the line to Khartum was ready for use, and about three weeks later Brig.-General Herbert was flown there in a Handley Page machine.About three weeks after the new year fits your photo date of 15th January more or less.

The only mention of Handley Page aircraft in Cairo to be found are the two Handley Page 0/400’s, C9681 and C9700, and a Handley Page V/1500 in which Gen. MacEwen started from Ipswich to fly to India, and which was detained by bad weather at Mersa and Matruh, arrived at Heliopolis on January 3, 1919. It resumed its journey from Cairo on the morning of January 12.

C9700 departed Cairo on the 29th November, 1918, Major-Gen. Salmond, RAF., Brig.-Gen.Borton, RAF, Capt. Ross Smith and mechanics Sergeant Jim Bennett and Sergeant Wally Shiers (the latter three of 1 Sqn AFC ) flew via Damascus, Ramadi, Baghdad, Bushire and Bandar Abbas to Chahbar, which they reached on 7 December. The purpose of the trip was to survey airfields for the England – Australia Air Race (subsequently won by brothers Ross and Kieth Smith and mechanics Jim Bennett and Wally Shiers). They left on 10 December and arrived at Karachi on the same day and flew on to Nasirabad and Delhi, where they landed on 12 December. On 16 December they left for Allahabad, spending a night there before landing at Calcutta Racecourse on 17 December, damaging a wing in the process. The total distance from Cairo to Calcutta by this route was 4088 miles, which was covered in 59 hours 11 minutes flying time. The aircraft was sent to the North West Terretories and used to bomb Kabul in the offensive against the Afghans, and subsequently crashed at Lahore.

By elimination that leaves C9681 as the contender for the aircraft in the photo - in my humble opinion.

Notes

No 1 Squadron Australian Flying Corps left Melbourne in March 1916 for the Middle East and arrived in Egypt in April. Based at Heliopolis it carried out reconnaissance duties with a variety of types, but on 12 September 1916 it was renumbered as No 67 Squadron. From December it began to operate in support of ground forces operating in the desert and from September 1917 it began to standardise on RE8s with some BE12s and Martinsyde G100/102s. In January 1918 the squadron began to re-equip with Bristol Fighters and on 6 February it reverted to its original designation of No 1 Squadron AFC, effectively ending its service as a RFC/RAF unit. The squadron finally returned to Australian in March 1919.

C9681 was on charge of the Australian Squadron from 29th of August, 1918 and sent back to the Training Brigade on the 22nd of November 1918. C9700 remained with the Training Brigade until its departure to India. The aircraft were used to fly petrol, oil and munitions for the Bristol Fighters based at Azrak with Fiesels army (supporting the British advance into Palestine and Lawrence of Arabia).

Brigadier-General (later Air Vice-Marshal ) A E “Biffy” Borton GOC/AOC, RAF in Palestine Between 28 July 1918 and 8 August 1918 he established a World record by flying from Cranwell to Heliopolis in a Handley Page 0/400 in 5 days and a flying time of 36 hours 13 minutes, covering 2592 miles. Whether this was in C9681 or C9700 is not clear. It is mentioned elsewhere that C9700 flew from England to Cairo during the war. How the second 0/400 got to Cairo and when is also unclear.

[andrewmcharlton]

Outstanding Brian !

Thanks a million for the help and research, much appreciated.