NATS ATCO Questions

[Hektor]

I have some small but important questions...

Do you struggle working nights? Do you struggle with the shift patterns and running a family? What is your spare time like, do you find your sleep becomes messed up?
Also, when you get given a location to work in, let’s say London, do they move you around to a different location much in your career?
What is the typical dress code?

Thanks people.
Hektor

[General_Kirby]

I hate nights, some people love them. Generally very quiet, you get all day to yourself which is great but the feeling of the second night working the 6-7am rush is not great.
Shift patterns are amazing, I love it. Walking round Tesco with the place to yourself, doing whatever you want through the week without being confined to Sat/Sun like most of the unwashed masses.
Sleep is never an issue, except maybe before a night shift if theres outside noise.
You remain "mobile grade" with NATS so they CAN move you anywhere, but in reality once your valid unless you seek to move you will stay put. Dress code is informal unless you work at Swanwick where sandals and bermuda shorts are the uniform.

[classicwings]

Dress code is informal unless you work at Swanwick where sandals and bermuda shorts are the uniform.They must have surfed their way from West Drayton; no change on that front then......:E

[Hektor]

Thanks General_Kirby,

How many nights would you say you work in a month on average?


Hektor

[anotherthing]

Hektor

Nights are up to the individual, some people like them, some don't. I actually quite like them, I almost feel that although my shift pattern is 6 on 4 off, the day of my first night shift is an extra day so I consider that I actually work 5.5 days on/5.5 days off.

The 6th day in the is not allegedley a day of, it's a sleep day - I only sleep til about 1030/1100 after a night shift, therefore although it is technically a sleep/recovery day, I don't feel I am using it as such.

Sleep patterns, in my experience, do not get too messed up - it depends I think on the idividual. If you are a 'morning' type of person i.e. you don't need to keep hitting the snooze button when your alarm goes off, then I think you are better equipped to cope with shift patterns that include nights.

There are plenty of people who like to do permanent nigts - they tend to do approximately 6 a month. If you are not one of these and just end up doing the odd set of nights to suit the roster, chances are you will do 2 a month at the area units, maybe more at an airport.

Dress code is informal, airport guys tend to be more smartly dressed than area, though it is personal choice.

If you get posted to Manchester or Prestwick, you get a one off clothing allowance to cover waterproofs for Manchester and warm clothing for Prestwick; as the company has finally come into line with the EU ruling that it is 'Grim oop North'

[Dee Mac]

Reproduced from my roster,

Day one - mornings 0630-1300
Day two - mornings 0700-1400
Day three - afternoons 1300-2000
Day four - afternoons 1400-2200
Day five - nights 2200 - 2359
Day six - 0001-0700
2200-2359
Day seven - 0001-0700
Day eight - off
Day nine - off
Day ten - off

I make that 7 days on and 3 days off. Done 3 or 4 of these recently. Will vary according to area/airport and watch requirements/your validations.

[atcomarkingtime]

HAHAHAHA.....a grim up north allowance sounds great!!!! So we at the ice station will need a massive allowance then.......it would be so good if it wasn't so funny!!!!:ok::D

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

If you get posted to Manchester or Prestwick, you get a one off clothing allowance to cover waterproofs for Manchester and warm clothing for Prestwick; as the company has finally come into line with the EU ruling that it is 'Grim oop North'This begs the question.... what do you get if you get posted to Aberdeen? Full scale arctic survival kit, a winter fuel allowance and weekly food parcels flown in by chopper?! :}

[throw a dyce]

Well we just get on with it.Unlike the wet blankets in the south that can't cope with a quarter of a inch of snow.:eek:
Tesco on line does a very good line in food parcels.:p
ABZ was the warmest place in the country on Friday.Barby was lit,shorts, flipflops and stubby coolers all going.:cool:

[Ivor_Novello]

This begs the question.... what do you get if you get posted to Aberdeen? Full scale arctic survival kit, a winter fuel allowance and weekly food parcels flown in by chopper?! http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

I shall find out soon, and will let you know :)

I am off to having my continental breakfast now.

regards

Ivor

[Hektor]

Ah ok, thanks. Thanks for your explaining.

Yahoo Registered, why you so depressed? Lack of sleep? What kind of health issues?

Thank you kindly,

Hektor

[eastern wiseguy]

9 to 5

If ever there was an anti social shift pattern it is that. :ok:


I love my shifts...been doing it since 1978.

[Standard Noise]

I love my shifts
Ah well, whatever keeps ye grumpy!:}

9-5 non-operational? Sounds alright to me, might try it out next year.

[eastern wiseguy]

Ah well, whatever keeps ye grumpy!

Shifts are only one thing amongst many........:p

[Standard Noise]

Thnak god for that, I thought it was just me.:uhoh:

[Hektor]

Ok my friends I will try and be an ATCO.

I will order an interview with NATS and read some threads provided by this forum. Do you have any other advice for someone like me?

Should I try another way to be an ATC without using NATS? Maybe sponsorship?

Hektor Gonzalez

[Dan Dare]

Further fuel for the debate from Min Stack on the pension thread (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/344589-nats-pensions-split-pay-2009-thread-63.html)

If NATS is restricted about where it spends its profits because of 'the regulator' then the regulator (ie the government) can 'ing well top up our pension.

After 27 years of night shifts for this company my sleep pattern is completely shot to pieces - I'm lucky to average 5 hours sleep a night during the rest of my shift days and days off, regularly waking during the night at 3am and unable to get back to sleep. My days off are now wasted recovering from my night shifts and my kids probably think I'm a miserable .

It's a well known fact nowadays that shift patterns/lack of sleep shortens ones lifespan - just hope I live long enough to spend the pension that I've worked my off for.


I would echo that shift work does lead you to spending much of your time feeling like a zombie, so its just as well we don't have to mix much with the great unwashed at the shops, golf course etc. Its not great for family and friends, who stand little chance of understandding either.

[autothrottle]

Nights and young children are difficult , especially as you get older! However I get to see my children a lot more than a 9-5 job , which is great. Nights leave me feeling tired for all my days off then you are back on earlies again!

[Standard Noise]

Autothrottle - you might want to think about visiting your GP. Even our shift patterns shouldn't be leaving you tired through days 9 and 10.
I must admit that days 7 and 8 are a bit ropey for me, but my last two rest days are fine. I see we're the same age and if I felt tired all the way through my rest days I'd be worried.

Mind you, when I worked at Belfast City, we had no proper shift pattern, it was ad hoc month to month somtimes doing six 6am starts in a row with only minimum SRATCOH breaks afterwards. That was knackering!

[DC10RealMan]

I have just been "red carded" by my GP after 30 years of night shift working. It is his contention that anyone over 50 should not be doing night shifts as part of a regular rotating shift pattern as it is injurious to your health. I have certainly found that it has been more and more difficult to get over the effects of night shift working after the age of 48. NATS are sympathetic to the situation however service delivery is paramount and therefore the aim is to get me back on nights as quickly as possible.

[classicwings]

so its just as well we don't have to mix much with the great unwashed at the shops, golf course etc.

Fair enough Air Traffic is a highly skilled job to work in but please do bear in mind that there are other professionals out there such as GP's, Doctors, Surgeons, Solicitors, Surveyors and Executive Managers who do just work the standard 9-5 working week and are excluded from the unwashed masses...........

[CAP493]

It is his contention that anyone over 50 should not be doing night shifts as part of a regular rotating shift pattern as it is injurious to your health.
I think your GP is basically correct.

Unfortunately, ATC (as with many other H24 professions and jobs) requires 24/7 shift working and so this is an unrealistic aspiration.

That said, there's absolutely no doubt that recovery time increases beyond age 40 and that beyond age 50 it's debateable whether someone ever fully recovers from night working unless they take leave or some other significantly longer break between their shift cycles.

The one advantage that ATC has over most other night shift professions (particularly the medical professions) is "SRATCOH" (mandated in the UK since 1989) or similar duty time restrictions where these are imposed by the State regulator, and the fact that the duty times and rest periods are both prescribed and (in all responsible employers' ATC units) strictly applied. The best H24 ATC shift cycles move backwards from mornings through afternoons to nights - this has been determined as being the least onerous on and most easily accommodated by, the body's circadium rhythm.

That said - and despite the various social advantages of having time off during the 'day' or 'week' - the jury's probably still out as regards the long-term impact on people's health of working regular night shifts over a 30 to 40-year ATC career, simply because you'd need to study people who began this regime in the 1960s and 1970s and I'm not sure it's being done/has yet been done; and other aspects of the individual's lifestyle would also need to be taken into account.

Be interesting to see the data and conclusions, though... :confused:

[Jumbo Driver]

Around 30 years of longhaul flying has left me little better at dealing with shift/night/timezone effects. I realise that flying usually has timezone changes whereas ATC shift patterns do not, however I feel there are significant similarities so my comments should be pertinent. I think, essentially, I learned two fundamental points over the years:

1) You generally find the the best (or perhaps least worst) way to deal with each work/rest pattern by trial and error. Everyone is different and what suits one may not necessarily suit another. For example some can rest, or even sleep, in anticipation of a night duty but many (including me) cannot.

2) The effects do certainly become more pronounced with advancing years. I agree with DC10RealMan and CAP493 that around the age of 40 the body becomes less tolerant of disruptive sleep/work patterns and recovery times both during and after such work patterns start to get longer; thereafter, and certainly by age 50, the effects progressively increase such that shift work (particularly nights) can then have a significant life effect.

I also agree with CAP493 when he says:

The best H24 ATC shift cycles move backwards from mornings through afternoons to nights - this has been determined as being the least onerous on and most easily accommodated by, the body's circadian rhythm. In my experience the human body generally adapts more readily to a sleep pattern which involves lengthening the 24-hour day, rather than to one which shortens it.

There is some interesting aeromedical reading (if you can stay awake long enough!) in a couple of Aerospace Medical Association research articles, namely Clockwise and Counterclockwise Rotating Shifts: Effects on Sleep Duration, Timing, and Quality (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/asma/asem/2003/00000074/00000006/art00001) and Rapid Counterclockwise Shift Rotation in Air Traffic Control: Effects on Sleep and Night Work (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/asma/asem/2007/00000078/00000009/art00006). Both are free to download, in either HTML or pdf.


JD
:zzz: