Muscat Muscateers

[roswell]

Why can I not locate the Muscat Mutterings thread??

What has been happening in Oman? Has there been any action to rectify the dangerous list to starboard? Does anyone still work there?!

[divingduck]

It was deleted as a waste of bandwidth.

Anything new can be added here.

[carkiller]

hi folks,

there has been a lengthy discussion about the things that are done and more often not done in Muscat ACC's admin regarding traffic levels, safety, contracts,.....

But i have the impression , now we have reached a new dimension. The are really doing it! For a while it was only a rumor that the admin comes up with a sector split for North. But now they really do it, they are simulating new airspace structure in a live environment. And because some controllers refused to work it, now every morning the chief of ACC himself and/or some of the other office guys sit in position and simulate new procedures in North.

Explanation, i cite:
" we don't have a simulator that can properly reflect the strip board.
And anyway there is no legal requirement to simulate before new structures are implemented.
And we are basing this on our vast experience.
We (the office) sat together and were discussing the risks of doing this, so we even have done a risk analysis.
We don't need to publish anything for this evaluation, because nobody is affected outside of Muscat, we just call UAE and Teheran to use another frequency and that is it.
No there are no new procedures between the new sectors and since we didn't really change the airspace besides splitting it and extending it a bit to the south and the west we don't need a new licensing for it.
The system will not allow a handover/takeover (as is mandatory for the other sectors) until mid next year but we write a hand down item to use caution when operating the sector."

Somehow i'm loosing track here. Is that just me having some idiotic major concerns or is something going horribly wrong here???:eek:

[divingduck]

Great news!
It's only about 3 years late, but better late than never.

I totally understand the Muscateers reluctance to do anything without sim trials. But what is better, continuing the same way that you have for the past 10 years, or giving something new a try?
In reality, what is the difference to simply introducing a new frequency for one of the areas?

The split was tested at length when first mooted, and the team recommended immediate implementation, with each controller getting several days in the sim to famil themselves with the changes.
If it is the same split as was then recommended, the changes to the current setup are small and easily adapted, but have the advantage of reducing the North controller's traffic levels by around the 50%.
Apart from wanting extra breaks, why would anyone not want this to go ahead?
Regarding the handoff function...UAE operated without one until only very recently, when it crosses or approaches the sector boundary, hand it over. Rocket science it is not.

Even the most cynical amongst you must admit that at the very least, management are trying to alleviate a real problem.

[carkiller]

Ok, maybe i'm panicking or i'm still just too pampered with proper airspace design from Europe. And it's not the new sector i'm worried about (Even though in my opinion the simulated split is the worst of all options). I am just worried about not following any proper rules. New sector yes appreciated but as i learned it , that was

1.Design on paper
2. Design on Sim
3. Design procedures on sim and adjust on sim
4. safety case
4. prepare the live system
5. prepare documentation (updates and amendments)
6. go online

and not the other way around....

[DTLP]

I'm with you Carkiller, the live environment is no place to start trialling new sectors and procedures, never, middle east circus or not. The other thing is the office staff have not maintained currency in any shape or form, working on position irresepctive of the trial is dangerous and lunatic. Muscat is an accident waiting to happen.

[Excan]

OK Muscateers sing along with me:

M......I.....C.....K......E......Y.....

M......O......U......S.......E.......

[Farrell]

Well....am finally getting kicked out of here tomorrow night.
Have to spend 24 hours in AUH before coming back in as a tourist.

Anyone want to meet me for a beer?

[galliwalli]

I know I keep asking, but can someone please tell me if the new salary has been approved yet. If so, when is it going to be implemented?

[carkiller]

did you really expect that we'd ever see some more money?:=

It's already close to a miracle that after just 16 months we've been granted an (by far not adequate) rise in housing allowance.:D

you get patient here and learn to live with what you get, or you leave, like most of the expats do right now, another 4 on the run by years end....:{

[divingduck]

Hey Farrell, next time you are in Shannon, give me a shout!
I'll stand you a Guinness or two.

Good luck

[DTLP]

broadcast the off watch message and don't forget to turn out the lights

[galliwalli]

I am considering a move to Muscat, am very aware of salary issues and am not too concerned. Would appreciate it if someone can try give me an expected timeframe for the OR4100 increase and what the holdup may be. Also, there is a rumour doing the rounds that Oman is not hiring any expats at all for the forseable future due to political issues, comment anyone?

[!turnleftrightnow!]

I just hope the DG will take a decision pretty soon because I´m freezing my a:mad: off where I am right now!
I´d go any time!

[Farrell]

Two more about to hand in notice as well, if my sources are correct.

That makes six.

[galliwalli]

Are the current pending resignations due to no increase, or are the working conditions playing their part as well?

[!turnleftrightnow!]

No PMs please!:rolleyes:
Let others (me) know, too.

Thank you!

[Farrell]

Oh dear......rumours in the office say that Muscat will not be shot of me for another year......sigh.

[carkiller]

i expected there would be some more words here after the latest rumour saying that another one of the expats has been sacked by the management.:confused:

but maybe just no one left to complain...

[!turnleftrightnow!]

Sacked for what?

[Aquafina]

Attitude and sick leaves. So they say....

[black hawk down]

i heard that the very last day of the year 2008 was some night in Muscat ACC
all airports in UAE got shut down coz of fog,:)
then you can imagine how it became in Muscat airspace:ugh::ugh:

[zkjaws]

The last shift of 2008 was coincidentally the last shift of my contract in Muscat.
Thanks to the disruptions caused by the fog, the night passed pretty quickly and I was able to finish in Muscat relatively unscathed.
The last 20 or so months have been an experience and I thank those who have contributed to the pleasant parts of it.
I wish you well in your next assignment.

Jaws

[!turnleftrightnow!]

Hey folks, it´s been awefully quiet here! Are there A N Y news regarding the recruitment process and salary?

[Farrell]

"Are there A N Y news regarding the recruitment process and salary?"

From what I gather, an increase has been approved, is on its way and will be announced soon.

[galliwalli]

If the pending increase does get official approval, are they planning to recruit many controllers?
Also, I believe that the tenders are out for the new ATC system, any ideas as to which systems are being condsidered, and what time frame would be involved to full implementation?

[flyf]

I heard Muscat might be hiring soon. Any news on the salaries? I've been looking for number$, but what I find seems to be a bit dated.
How does the Oman package compare to Bahrain and Abu Dhabi?

[sologonzo]

Muscat are currently hiring Expat controllers.
Previous applicants on file have been contacted.
A number of staff required immediately, with more to follow.
Positions will be advertised in the usual channels.
Can't mention Salary here except to say it has increased recently.
You will have to acquire and compare packages & living conditions yourself, then make your own decision. It is pointless discussing/debating here as there are too many differing opinions.

[BIRD2008]

Does anybody here have contact info for the ACC jobs in Muscat, Oman?

Please PM me the info if you have them, would like to check it out...

[flyf]

I am also interested in contact info, please PM me.

[zkjaws]

I have heard through the grapevine that the new package in Muscat is OMR4000 per month (all inclusive).
This is still way below what you can expect in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain & Dubai, where you will probably get more than this as your salary and then accomodation, schooling, medical and flights home, etc on top.

[bocas0274]

Hi,,,,anyone Could Tell How Much Is Ro4000 In Usd, Thanks

[Northern_Trouble]

That should make it around 10 400 USD, give or take a little on the going rate...

[black hawk down]

mind you life in Oman (Muscat) is so much cheaper than UAE,bahrain,qatar
in every way(expenses,rents...etc).

[bocas0274]

Thk U Northern,,,,,,,,,i Have An Offer To Work At Muscat,,,,as I Am From Colombia Center Artcc,,i Will Appreciate If Anyone Can Give A Heads Up Of What Can I Expect,,,,thaks In Advance,,,,first Time In The Forum,,,,,

[black hawk down]

bocas,we have 2 laitn americans who would help you regarding saving wise and exchange.....etc.
jaws im sorry but life have went cheaper since you left.
salary here is 4000 RO fr expat here and thats is confirmed

[Fox3snapshot]

Abu Dhabi haven't moved...UAE control moved, Abu Dhabi's turn next :E

Muscat still around 1600 Riyals short of the market going rate unfortunately, it would be the jewel of the Middle East again if they made their package competitive. ;)

[black hawk down]

Muscat will always be short by a couple of thousands?!
the salary in uae few years ago was around 28000 AED and since then it jumps a thousand every year till it reached what(58000-60000)
we dont have as much oil as you do FSS,you know the whole story with being an authority...etc
just ask around,rents in muscat have gone down and its nothing like last years.
4000 R.O is a good deal and rents dropped and thats a fact.and who ever want to come is most wellcome,And who ever have left it was good knowing you

[Quokka]

4000 R.O is a good deal and rents dropped and thats a fact.

Well... actually, I've told by a Muscateer that the Landlord's agent demanded an increase in the rent a fortnight ago for renewal of the annual tenancy agreement this month under the pretence of adding another floor to the building. Pay up or move out.

[black hawk down]

this is exactly why sometimes i dont wanna post anything at all ,on such fourms.coz it make me vomit,there is more destructive comment here more than constructive ones?!:ugh:
my friends,its not a jungle here,we recently had a royal decree restraining any landlords fooling around in rents under any reson,so if there is anyone to be blamed it would be the tenant taking crap from landlords,and instead of obeying blindly every thing told them they should go ahead and complain.we are getting good feedbacks and C.V's and things are pointing to the bright side.
maybe to some people its bad news and to some its good

[Number2]

I just wish I could get an offer. I would jump at the chance. Any ideas of number of vacancies available?

[lortnocatuo]

Mr Jaws, yes the salary is lower in Muscat than rest of GCC, and it probably always will be. However some of us choose to live in Oman because we like it here - regardless of $.

Put it into context - Oman expats still earn more than anywhere outside the ME on the go at the moment. BTW how much is the salary in Ireland again???

[black hawk down]

700 OMR is average rents in muscat?!?!
where did you get that from?

[roswell]

700 per month is very accurate, in fact if you want to gaurantee living somewhere nice, like Shatti, expect to pay 1000 per month for a 2 bedroom apartment. Take a look online, although there isn't much available. If you are a local rent is obviously less, but expats do pay a premium. :ok:

[black hawk down]

Well that is your mistake as an expat for taking rubbish from the landlords,in muscat its clear there is no diffrence between expat or a local.and like i said above you can go and complain according to law.
for example if you found a twin villa somewhere and one is occupied by a local and he is paying say 500,will the landlord charge you 700 or more because you are an expat.is that what you are saying.
if so you have been taken for a ride big time,and law doesnt allow that.
unless off course you are looking for a place like in shatti like you say that comes with a jacuzzi and expect to pay 200 R.O?1

[black hawk down]

And lets be completely honest here,i lived in eroupe and i know how it is.
no what some of you are trying to say that for what you get here in Muscat for say the rent price is the same as in eroupe in size,luxury...etc?
dont forget that you are paid here 4000(tax free) not like in the west.
And are you saying that even that the pay is less than some of the other countries,most of the expats here arent making any savings,even when some have spent here over 20 years?!!
maybe that its life style and spending that is the problem

[black hawk down]

thank you A.N.S.A
finaly someone with a bit of common sense,you are right:D
and thats why places where they pay 58000 AED or more are still short of staff?!?!:rolleyes: or are they not?!?!
MURAL
be in a the nicest place in the gulf (if you left your own country behind )and be paid less,but sleep with a smile on your face
better than
be paid a more and eat sand all day long 24/7/4/12:Dhours/days/weeks/months

[black hawk down]

And yeah i forgot before i go enjoy luch
Gulfnews: Inspectors shut down meat stalls (http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Health/10337162.html)

[roswell]

BHD, just saying from my experience re rents, I think it wise for any new arrivals to have a local colleague assist in the rent process to ensure they do not get taken for a ride. You are completely right in that Muscat is the jewel of the crown and living costs, aside from rent, are indeed super cheap. You are blessed with a beautiful country :ok:

[black hawk down]

Rose,now you are being positive,thats a great idea.expats can use the help of locals in finding logical rents of homes:ok:

[sologonzo]

Following link from Flight Global for details;

Air Traffic Controllers - 200518958 - Flight Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/air-traffic-controllers-abu-dhabi-200518958.htm)

Location states Abu Dhabi which is a typo. Vacancies are in Muscat ACC, Muscat, Oman.

[black hawk down]

:sad: some people cant ever get it right:ugh:

[slatch]

What is the status of general aviation in Oman? Are there aeroclubs or FBO's where planes can be rented?

[Fox3snapshot]

Pffft Aeroclubs...they come in the form of the airlines!

There used to be one many many moons ago, and I knew a gentleman who battled for years to get one up and running again. The red tape and bu**##t the local authorities presented him knocked the whole thing on the head. The police were the main brick wall who are still living in a 1960's and 70's time warp! I would looooove to think that in 2009 things have changed....please prove me wrong.

BHD, I was paying 400 OMR 7 years ago for a basic apartment which was the going rate then, so Full Levers figures will not be inaccurate.

ANSA I think your sarcasm has been lost.....:E

[black hawk down]

if your a big spender than a salary of 10000 OMR wont be enough,id depends on life style.
some who worked here before will recall (post office) cafe days
and some will remember how the blew away all their savings
f3ss,u will always have the choice here in muscat,to find whatever rent u want,no adays u can even live in barka which is only 15min drive from the airport for peanuts.
not like on your side space is very limited.

[black hawk down]

FYI all,the Global flight AD is fixed (Location is Oman ) now

[flyf]

I'm considering applying for a job in Muscat. If so, I would like to send half the pay (2000 rials, I guess) home, for savings and mortgages. Otherwise, it might not be a good idea for me at the moment.
-In your opinion, would the remaining 2000 rials be enough to live a fairly comfortable life, for a family of 4?
-In Oman forums I've seen some numbers about cost of living. Just want to get confirmation from a fellow ATCO. :}

[divingduck]

FlyF...
With 2000OMR left over and two children at school, I would have to say no.
The cost of schooling expat kids is very stiff. Just to join the British School will cost 1700 rials this year and 2500 next year...per child. THEN you have to pay for the fees, which I believe are about 2500 rials per term (3 terms per year) for high school age kids.
So with 2 high school kids it will set you back around 20,000 rials in the first year. You get 48000 per year to begin with,so after school fees you have 28,000, a decent villa will cost around 650-800 (possibly more) or 9600 rials per year leaving 18,400.
Then you have to buy a car, fill it with fuel (albeit cheap fuel), buy food, drink, entertainment etc. then there are holidays to be paid for.
As you can see the chances of sending home a half of your salary is pretty much nigh on impossible.
Before you go and find yourself broke, give the schools a ring and find out. I had both my kids go to the ABA, and my wife taught at the British School, and I can thoroughly recommend both. there are others there, do a google search, and then sit down and work it out.

If you decide to go, you will have a ball, it is by far the best place to live in the Gulf, the locals are amazingly friendly and very tolerant of ignorant westerners. Treat them and their country with respect and you will have friends for life.

[black hawk down]

i think in all cases whats really worth it is,that for the past and now the normal practice for expats in the whole of the gulf is,that they take a 1 year unpaid leave for example from the origin employer,and come for say a year or so and give it a shot in the gulf(in any country) and see what good and bad points they come up with here.this is the what we are used to here in the gulf.
Some left for a better life and some weighed matters and stayed.some have been here for over 20 years,some built a life finished their kids studies in schools and unis and some even got their big kids jobs in the gulf.

[Number2]

I have a job offer and I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to talk about life/work in Muscat? Please feel free to PM me.

[bocas0274]

I Am On The Same Boat Number2............would Like To Know About Life Cost In Muscat.....

[!turnleftrightnow!]

Hi folks,
I suggest you pack some bags and fly down to Muscat to find out.
A couple of years ago - when Muscat was hiring expat controllers - there were so many complaints in this forum that the money was not enough etc.
Fly over and try to get your own idea of the country and the package. Go to supermarkets, check newspapers, car dealers etc.
And if you can´t afford the air ticket, I recommend: www.omanforum.com (http://www.omanforum.com)
I´m sure you´ll find some interesting threads there!
See you in Muscat! Hope to be there by March ´10.

[divingduck]

TLRN's just given you all the best piece of advice that you will get on the 'net.

Go and have a look.

[Number2]

Planning to visit in January (despite the expense) to confirm that it's the right move. A huge public thank you to those people that took the time to answer my questions.

[BIRD2008]

I got a job offer from Muscat. I have signed it allready. Didn't go for a visit. Just looked at info at Omanforum.com. Great site!

Also got lots of info from people that have worked there and people in Abu Dhabi that I know, not the same place but similar culture.

If you have an open mind for changes and experience something new it can't be anything but good thing to do, at least for few years :ok:

[black hawk down]

Good Luck guys and wellcome to Oman
TLRN i couldnt agree more,productive idea
thank you

[Northern_Trouble]

Congrats with the new job. Say Hi to the Ladybirds from me....

[GR09]

Greetings,
I am new to this forum and would like to gather some information. I am a 50 year old, 23 year veteran ATCS in the US and considering relocation to the ME. I have friends that work in Dubai that like it quite a bit, and I hear good things about living in Oman. I have reviewed the current vacancy posting for Muscat ACC, and am considering submitting my CV. My questions have to do with the compensation package. From this thread of messages I have read salary is 4000 OMR per month. Is this current and reasonably accurate? Are there any provisions for relocation expenses or housing allowances? The vacancy announcement does not offer any specifics on salary or benefits.

What do most people do regarding health insurance and or medical care? What are the working conditions like at the ACC, specifically are you adequately staffed, is there required overtime, what are the work schedules like?

Is there a direct source I could contact for specific information?

Any information is welcomed. Thanks!

[GR09]

Jaws,

Thanks for the timely response. Sounds like a nice place to live, but work would be challenging at best.

Anyone else care to offer an opinion?

Thanks,

GR

[black hawk down]

according to flight global Mag,your age is on the max side of the ad.So you better check on that also,before taking any step forward

[lortnocatuo]

Although some of what ZKJAWS says is true, he is very negative towards Muscat ACC as his contract was terminated there and he was made to leave the country at the beginning of 2009. Take what you want from his comments, but many people are tired of the 'Muscat bashing' from people who 'used' to work there.

If you want accurate and constructive information on work conditions and current living situations I suggest, like has been said previously, visit the place or speak to some of the people who work and live there that actually enjoy it.

[black hawk down]

lortnocatu:D:D:D
Moral is,anyone wanting to ask about making a living in Muscat is!!
Alaways ask a person still working there,coz most of the time people who left or made to leave will give you 99% not so positive info.
if your not happy =you leave
if your happy = you stay

[zkpjm]

Alaways ask a person still working there,coz most of the time people who left or made to leave will give you 99% not so positive info.
if your not happy =you leave
if your happy = you stay

I (plus wife and 2 kids) were extremely happy in Muscat. It IS the 'Pearl of Arabia' without a doubt.
The boys school, ABA, was absolutely the best in every respect.
Our landlord was a true gentleman.
DGCAM whilst having faults (show me any organisation that doesn't) worked hard at being competent, professional and (generally) supportive.
The ACC needed work sure, but there's a new ACC coming.
The ACC staff (generally) were competent and professional and a pleasure to work with.

I haven't a bad word to say about the place at all.

I left because financially I simply could not afford to stay there.

I guess I'm one of the 1%!:8

[black hawk down]

some have it there own way,but regarding finance
i guess its better now with 4k as a salary
and the rents slightly going down
and the GFC is improving
and the ACC improving too after flow control and new sectors
so if you were still here you might have gave it a second thought and that 1% would have gone and stayed:confused:
((like they say you cant win um all))

[bocas0274]

HI,,just want anyone who work at muscat acc tell me,,,how does RAMADAN affects the muscat acc,,,is there more movements (air traffic),paperworks are delayed,,the institution does not work those days (administrative),,thank you in advance for your comments

[Fox3snapshot]

Worked great for the Duck and I when we arrived at the end of Ramadan, no airport pass processed for 2 weeks or so, drivers license 3 or more trips to the police station, fingerprinting, visiting the Ministries of 'not sure what we do here' and then the icing on the cake, Eid arrived. So we went from 'Bukurah Inshallah' to 'After Eid'...all in work time, we were happy with that!! :E

But it was fun and we did come home each day after shawarma's in Ruwi for a cold bevvy and a house full of frankincense and had a good laugh about it....possibly overdid the frankincense thing one night and still have the smell in my nostrils 12 years later!! ;)

Fond memories. As long as you come with the mindset that things aren't done like they are everywhere else in the world (would be boring place otherwise!!), take a chill pill and let things happen when they happen...you'll be fine! ;)

[michael ATC]

Many thanks for info boys;
-Does one regard only ACC?
What about TWR & APP
-Are package, roster, working conditions and etc.
the same if not any details would be appreciated

Regard Michael

[black hawk down]

f3ss is high again,and im not sure if bocas understood a word from his Aussie hallucinations:confused:
bocas yes things are a bit slow in the month of ramadan (blame it on the low blood suger)no water or food for almost 12 hours+sleepy feeling+short working hours during the day+no nicotine for some.....etc:ok:
if that answer you question?

[Fox3snapshot]

BHD...

bocas yes things are a bit slow in the month of ramadan (blame it on the low blood suger)no water or food for almost 12 hours+sleepy feeling+short working hours during the day+no nicotine for some.....etc

Thank you you backed up my point exactly... and of course it is safe for you to control in that condition as well??? :cool:

[divingduck]

Aaaahhhh, frankincense OD's in Seeb:ok: Happy Days....But at least we had the first rain for about a year and played like dopey kids in the flood waters :eek:

bocas...it does, just as foxxy stated, no..yes and no in answer to your questions.

[Fox3snapshot]

DD....

Hah! Yeah classic mate, I had forgotten that moment. I always remember when leaving NZ and Oz comments to the affect of 'why the hell would you want to go out there, no rain, no women, no beer and no fun!' and our photo from that day if I remember correctly was standing in a street of rain water with cans of beer in our hands, girlies in tow and idiot grins on our faces! :}

OK so we had to give the girls back to their owners but it was the principal of it that made it a magic moment! :p

[bocas0274]

thank you guys,,,,i appreciate your answers

[Gianni17]

Hi all,

I have read all the posts in the topic since I'm planning to move to the "lands of the sand" soon and I have to tell everyone who would choose Europe over ME that I've made million of calculations and my oppinion is that life in Europe is way toooo expensive.

I've been all over the world for the past couple of years and I'm trying to run away from Western Europe as far as possible(preferably ME).

So,if anyone wants my calculations etc. let me know.

BTW some info on the life in Oman would be highly appreciated.

[black hawk down]

hi
OMAN
after so many pages on this fourm,
some loves it and some hates it
we all (i think) came to one conclusion
*come here yourself and give it a try*
see for your self if it suit you or not:ok:

[Obsidian09]

@ Bhd.......when Is The Move To The New Muscat Acc..going To Be Made Or Is It To Early To Say?

[cripton]

I’ve been reading this thread for a while. Most things Jaws wrote are 98% true, of the working conditions anyway. The point is, (no disrespect to BHD’s country), this is not on the standard of a 1st world country. This is a 3rd world developing country, put emphasis on developing. This indicates that the ACC is below what most expats expect. Strips are still being used (lots of them); procedures are nudging to get into shape and form. Point is, don’t take your contract on promises of future salaries or new ACC or new procedures, it most likely won’t happen while you are in Oman. The thing is, because of the fact that Oman is a developing country, you can still drive out to the dessert or beach, go camping or fishing, enjoy time with you family, depends on your priorities. I’m not talking about camp sites; I’m talking about raw beach where you can swim or camp more or less anywhere you would like. So, my advise; let someone know (controllers if you don’t know anyone else) when you will be arriving at Muscat Airport, there most likely will not be anyone from DGMAN waiting. Most important, not that I think you will be there that soon, don’t sign your contract with start date from now till December, you can’t carry over leave, so if you sign to start let’s say November, you will only have 8 days leave for December every year.

[black hawk down]

they (our bosses) say at the end of 2012:rolleyes:

[divingduck]

So, my advise; let someone know (controllers if you don’t know anyone else) when you will be arriving at Muscat Airport, there most likely will not be anyone from DGMAN waiting.

Maybe it has changed, but when I arrived a very long time ago, before they had the chance to get used to expats arriving,I was met and whisked through all Immigration stuff by one of the DGCAM Hr guys. I was never sent anywhere without an HR guy there to help.
Can't say what it is like now, but what was written by cripton was certainly not my experience.

[black hawk down]

DD you are a vip,they should have put the red carpets for you mate:ok:
cripton:what about the 2% that you dont agree with jaws on?and can we go totaly naked on those beaches you mentioned,coz that could be a bouns for some:cool:

[Vector361]

Just looking to clarify how the rotation works there. Is it a 9 or 10 calendar day rotation? (or did I misunderstand this totally) Where you lose me is coming off the last 11PM to 7AM. I hear about this "sleep day" that I assume is the remainder of the day in which you come of the last 11-7. Does this count as one of your 3 days off?

Is it:

a) Six work shifts over part of 7 calendar days, "sleep day" as first day off and then 2 more days off.

b) Six work shifts over part of 7 calendar days,"sleep day" (not as a day off) and then 3 other days off.

c) Other

What is the minimum number of hours between scheduled shifts?
How often are you scheduled overtime and what is the pay for overtime?

Thanks in advance. Very likely inbound early next year. Job offer in hand.

[Fox3snapshot]

Shifts when I was there and don't think it has changed greatly:

M M A A N N sleep Off Off Off

M : 0700 -1500
A : 1500 -2300
N : 2300 - 0700

There was an evening shift as well but I won't complicate things with that as I am not sure if it is still being used?

:)

[ATCO1962]

Hi Fox,

Long time, no see. When are you in Muscat next? Stop in, bro.

Every evening shift, we have one guy/gal start at 2100 and they work until 0200-0300ish. Otherwise, the roster cycle, as stated, hasn't changed for 12 years or so.

For everyone contemplating Muscat as an employment option, just remember that money is not everything. It's not nothing but you'll never survive if it's your only aim. I always advise anyone coming here to have a firm plan B so that psychologically and physically, you can move when you want, when that last straw goes on the camel's back.

From someone who's been here 18 years, it's been a great time and I haven't regretted my time here regardless of the challenges. The traffic is a challenging mix and hectic at times, the lifestyle is what you make of it and my colleagues, both Omani and expat are, for the most part, a great bunch of poeple who laugh easily, a good sign.

In a nutshell, the pros far outweigh the cons. Come on over!

[Fox3snapshot]

ATCO me ol mucker! Well things have been a little busy on the travel front chasing these environmentally challenged Formula 1 cars around the traps and my excuses for getting back down to the jewel of the Middle East have run out so I will see you in October! Ironically it is another F1 related issue that is bringing me there but that's another story, a few cold ales will be mandatory! ;)

Just piecing the days together now so hopefully we can get a cathcup and track down some of the other lads as well....blimey most of you must be in zimmer frames by now!!?? :}

Will drop a line again soon, in the meantime I have to get back to this flow control malarki that some mob down the road...woops, wrong audience to be airing my dirty flow laundry! :E

[lortnocatuo]

Vector361

Yes it is a 10 day Calendar rotation. Option B is correct.
As Fox3 said, rotation is; M,M,E,E,N,N,Rest,OD,OD,OD = 10 days
- M=0700-1500, E=1500-2300, N=2300-0700
- Finish at 0700L on your 7th day of the cycle, Go home and sleep.
- Days 8,9,10 are Off Duty.
- Day 11 = Day 1 of new Cycle. M shift starting at 0700L

All rostered times between shifts are either 16hrs or 24hrs. Maybe once a month 11.5hrs for an LE Shift (see below)
Minimum time between shifts is 9hrs. This will only happen if you make a shift swap at YOUR discretion. e.g. You agree to do an Evening shift (1500-2300) before a morning shift (0700-1500) i.e. only 8 hrs between shifts. You will get either last hr off Evening shift, or first hr off Morning shift, providing 9 hrs between shifts. With good negotiation you can get both hrs off, i.e. 10 hrs between shifts. Remember this only occurs due to a shift swap at your discretion.

Late Evening (LE) Shift - ONCE per calendar month you MAY be rostered the LE shift.
- It will replace either of the E shifts in one of your standard cycles.
- Start time is 2100L (normally that day you would have started at 1500)
- You are rostered on duty until 0330L i.e. 6.5hr shift length, however...
- If the Night shift Watch starting at 2300L has it's full compliment of staff i.e. no one has called in sick or absent - you are released from duty at 2300L, therefore doing only a 2 hr shift. Go home & be happy.

Overtime - Zero. There is no provision or requirement for overtime.
You never have to stay longer than 8hrs, (unless a cyclone destroys the countrys highways and the next Watch can not make it to work due to floods.)
In cases of increased sickness when a watch is left short of staff, management will call staff on Off Duty days to VOLUNTEER to come in to work to cover the shift. You will be compensated with (two) days in leu, i.e. 2 individual days you can take off at a later date. These are hard to use up, so are not much of an incentive therefore the request is turned down by most controllers. No extra pay - ever.

Enjoy

[black hawk down]

EID MUBARAK everyone
please,no hugging or shaking hands in Muscat ACC
and keep it H1N1 free:ok:

[Obsidian09]

Doing some research on the Muscat area. First how far is the facility from....well everything (lol)...seeb.. muscat...etc. I'm single no kids ..so what's the best area for me....How's Shatti (pricey?). Could someone name some living areas or communities? Who knows of some nice areas ...not shaby...but not insanely overpriced. Don't mind paying a little extra for quality living (but not trying to get killed in rent as well). How much would it be to lease something like a Toyota RAV4?

[zkjaws]

Have a look at Google Maps (although it's a bit ouf of date) it will give you an idea of the lay out of the town.
Where you want to live might depend on what you are planning on doing in your spare time - alot of the social activities are based around the Qurm, Medinat Qaboos area.
Qurm is quite a drive after a night shift (7am finish) when you are fighting the rush hour traffic to get home.
Areas where some of the controllers have/are living in are:
Al Hail, Al Azaiba, Al Ghubra and Bawshar.
It used to take me about 20 minutes from Al Ghubra on a good day and the worst day was 2 hours (after some rain).

[Obsidian09]

Info appreciated thanx jaws.....

[bocas0274]

thanks for the info...zkjaws...very helpfull..........

[Superfluous]

Obsidian09,
One of the controllers lives in a two bed room apartment in Shatti and he's paying 900 rials a month (some 2320 USD). In comparison, my two bed room apartment, in Al Ghubra, is 375 OMR. Villas are starting at some 2000 rials a month in Shatti. It is beautiful area, but it comes with a price.

[black hawk down]

take your bow jaws,there you go?
your a house broker in muscat?and thats better than being an atco anywhere?!:D
again my opinion is and,i understand totaly that some never travelled at all
check in a hotel or a motel when you arrive for ?say?a month or so
and study the reigon around you and make your choice
vs a (HOME,CAR,.....etc)

[Short Approach?]

How much would it be to lease something like a Toyota RAV4?

You a hairdresser?

[Vector361]

I found the DGCAM training building just to the S of the airport @ Seeb on Google Earth.

Is the ACC at the airport or is it located somewhere else?

And the "new" ACC will be at the airport?

I take it there no "GPS NAV" in Oman yet!

Thanks

[Superfluous]

Vector361
ACC is at the airport and the new one will be there as well. Car GPS NAV works quite well (Garmin and BMW I can confirm). Maps are bit old, but, there should be an update soon.

[black hawk down]

to be exact,the ACC is next to the cargo building
the new one wont be in the airport
it will be in Al mawaleh south near the "wave" round about

[Farrell]

The ads have hit the local papers for the new controllers.

They are expecting 20,000 applications.

[Number2]

Is this all part of the plan to (ultimately) have all Omani staff?

[Obsidian09]

:ok:Hey, that's a thought......but what's the daily average $$$ on a hotel in that area.....I like the idea though!

[Obsidian09]

lol! actually... I drive a BMW M3.....just considering something a bit more efficient for everyday life for that area (I have no clue)...for EXAMPLE a Toyota RAV 4, Honda Pilot, Acura MDX.......but I like your style and humor ....you got me on that one .....I owe you one :E

[Obsidian09]

Just wanted to thank everyone again for being so informative.....this seems to be a pretty cool forum site......:8......

[Dusty Sandmann]

Interested in going to Muscat?? Expect some of the following…

You will work with some of the nicest people in some of the most challenging conditions. You will earn double what the local controllers earn, which doesn’t go down well with them, but at least they won’t blame you for it. The 4000 is not a bad salary, but for most, it’s not enough to keep you there for longer than a year or two.

You will also have to contend with poor frequencies, not enough headsets, an outdated radar system, lots of multi tracking, procedures that seems to favour everyone except Muscat area (I guess most centres feel this way), a restroom and Area centre that is dirty and untidy, not enough sectors, not enough controllers, low moral, many promises, continuous route changes, high traffic levels, no proper flow control (apparently they initiated some, but soon removed it after some pressure from UAE), very expensive schools, equally expensive rent, hot summers, great winters, nice beaches and many other aspects which you will have to experience for yourself if you make the move. Expect not to be picked up at the airport when you arrive, expect to wait at least three weeks before you even step foot in the centre (airport permits take time), expect to pay an advance payment of three months or more on a villa, expect to wait at least 4 months for a visa. Be patient, remember that you are not in your own country anymore, respect the locals even if not all of them will respect you and enjoy the experience if you can. If not, leave like I did.

Some people there are very happy and others not so much. Don’t get your hopes up on that new centre or more money and you should enjoy the place! It all depends on where you come from or what you give up to go there.:)

[bocas0274]

what about those 4 months of probatory....the aplicant will get paid,, the 4000OMR?

thanks in advance folks...........

[Fox3snapshot]

So Dusty, how is your Farsi??! :p

[black hawk down]

dusty i salut you,
for all wanna come to Muscat dusty gave the naked truth,
and im sure that im going to point out 100 faults or advantages in any system in any ATC joint around the world
the only 100% perfect ATC system exist in heaven
i beleive that after the storm of people coming in and out,who we have left are happy with what they have on their plates
they get their leaves,they get a chance to modify the airspace....etc

Locals never envy expats,and do you know why?
because a year ago the were getting 3/4 of what expats were getting right now.and area local ATCOS salaries have increased by at least 1000 rials.
(the already feel like a million dollars babies)

[prascho]

Ive recieved an offer to become an ATC in Oman also......more info pls

[Number2]

I'm intrigued. I've had no reply from direct PMs to 2 controllers from the US on this forum. Is this a trust issue, lack of familiarity with the site or just can't be bothered? I was merely interested in bouncing ideas of other potential colleagues but it seemed to fall on deaf ears.

Another big thanks to those already in Muscat (or previously worked there) that have patiently answered all my (no doubt tedious) questions.

Cheers

[prascho]

R there other europeans in Muscat , I would like to talk whit them if its possible.
Im single and i have a lot of free time.Would like to know something about the social live in Muscat .
Im driving a new Audi Q7 (its in case if u r going call me a hairdresser), whats the price for a new car in Muscat and etc.
Something more about your operating system and working conditions etc.
It does not sound so good to pay 25-30% for a rent, does it?
Tnx in advance!!! Im just looking for a reason to leave my curent job.


P.s Guys I just need your help its not so easy to arrive at decision!!! Tnx again!!!

[DTLP]

Prascho, plenty of air hostesses in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, but not many options in Muscat to change your single status.

[prascho]

Tnx m8 i didnt expect anything else!
Seems i have to visit Muscat and to c for what r we talking about.
I know that u r great guys!!!

[bocas0274]

Can Anyone Tell Me If The 4 Probatory Months Will Be Reward.



Thaks In Advance......

[Gianni17]

As far as I know the salary will be the same with a licence or without one.The only thing and chance to kick you out would be if you really can't validate.

All the best.

Gianni

[Obsidian09]

You covered some areas that I didn't think to ask. Enjoy your travels in China....If you have never been to China, Hong Kong/Kowloon is outrageous..I loved it (I was there during their New Year Celebration)! Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia is decent as well if you're in that area...just hot and humid as hell! Take Care :ok:

[bocas0274]

I Definetly Will Like An Update Jaws..the First One Was Very Help
Full..i Will Pm My Email

Thanks In Advance
Enjoy China

[bocas0274]

Thanks People..............

[Obsidian09]

Lol...I just read your PM today...I am new to the site...and just discovered the PM function...sorry it took soo long to reply....I had no idea you were talking about me when I read this post the first time .... then I read it again..and said to myself ...hey ...I'm one of the two people from the U.S. this person is referring to.....:O Hit me back (PM) when you can....take care:ok:

[black hawk down]

for all planing to come over to Muscat
please bring your own headsets with you,its a tight policy we have here for hygiene resons
and yeah,woopi we have air newzealand airways staff members who came to fix our sysytem
though we had the report written by swedes,saying that we have problems
so thats the task for all the new comers to figure it all out
goodluck:ouch:

[Vector361]

What type of headset? Model number, etc.?

[Obsidian09]

Yeah...I was going ask that as well.....us USA types are probably use to Plantronics MS30/MS50 standard issue.....there is a new one out with noise cancelling MS200-1 for approx. usd $130.....but what type connector?? two prong? ohms, voltage dc?? :8

[Obsidian09]

How did that whole North Sector split thing work out? Did it improve working conditions and efficiency? Any other airspace modifications resectorization or automation proposals in the making? :8

[Number2]

Bring your own headset?! You have got to be kidding me! Provide my own flightstrips as well?

[Obsidian09]

:ooh:........A headset is a very personal and intimate accessory mannnn:cool:! It's kinda like......welllll...... your toothbrush :p hahah aahh!! One time a fello controller used a headset that he thought was his, turned out to be mine!!! Ear plug and everything all stuffed in his ear!!!!!! :\ I WAS NOT THAT HAPPY!!! Soooo, thanks BHD!! If that is indeed some kinda norm/policy...I'll just go with it....:ok:

[ATCO1962]

BHD is kidding, guys. You will be issued with a standard, one ear headset when you get here. However, instead of the good, old days, when we had substantial, easily workable headsets that plugged into the console via a simple, double-prong, male-female connection, we now have flimsy ones that connect into very complex, multiple connectors that are already starting to fall to bits. Combine that with the fact that you only receive half the parts of the headset (i.e.the last bit that connects to your head), you rely on the other half that connects your bit to the console actually being in place. We only have a limited amount of those and they are continually going missing, meaning that we have to use watch-specific, full headsets that you share, like your toothbrush, with everyone on the watch. This shoddy arrangement also means that you cannot listen in on handovers and training becomes a nightmare. After all these years, I can only say shame on DGMAN. This should have been fixed as a priority, both for safety and for hygiene reasons, long ago. There is no excuse for this and everyone ducks for cover when asked why, after nigh on a year or so, there's been no action.

One step forward, two steps back........

[Obsidian09]

:d.......bhd!!! Lmao!!!

[bocas0274]

no locker..........itt:=

[black hawk down]

JAWS i tell you my friend,since you left things have improved
we have drinking water provided,we have brand new lockers now,we have hand wash provided
you ask your mates over here
2nd what make you think that the current headsets jack(plugs) arent that bad :bored:
yeah i should have thought
BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE SAME ONES USED IN NZ
so i guess that makes them perfect

[black hawk down]

but the toilet paper issue is still pending,you are more than wellcome to use
STRIP PAPER instead:ok:

[black hawk down]

what ever jaws
some people are ment to work on "islands" only:rolleyes:

[Farrell]

"As for the strip paper - I wouldn't go there. Look at the trouble I got in for putting a few on the floor."

ROFL!

[Number2]

Am I missing the joke or is BHD a little 'bitter' about something?

[bobesko]

Anyone tell me some contact adress or mail on which I can send cv in order to aply for area controller job in Muscat.Thanks :)

[black hawk down]

N2
you are missing the joke
you see some people came here and left
some left with good memories and and friends ,they were productive all the way while their stayed in Muscat
and some sadly didnt,they left with a "bang" like they say,and they are the ones who are bitter,not me
some people role here on this fourm as we all know is incourging people to come over and give it a shot and some regardlesss any thing,they just give the negative points but never mention any positive ones.

[prascho]

bobesko -the door is closed, I think so .

I would like to c more europeans in Muscat and seems Ill need a room-m8 also;)

[Farrell]

"bobesko -the door is closed, I think so ."

It most definitely is not!

Farrell

[bobesko]

thanks :ok:

[bocas0274]

does anyone know how much time it takes to get all the clearances to start the training in muscat.

thanks in advance guys..:

[Obsidian09]

Don't know. I'm waiting patiently as well! I wanted to ask that, but you beat me to it! Good Job!!!:cool:

[Number2]

I was told that it can be up to 6 months. I'm prepared to be corrected though!

[Gianni17]

It can take anything from a couple of months to maybe a year or so.

Once you get the approval you need to get in the country within 6 months.

As I have heard they managed to speed things up a bit and eventually it should be shorter.How short depends on your luck.

Gianni

[!turnleftrightnow!]

I´ve been waiting since August, now...

[bocas0274]

THANK YOU GUYS....THATS WAT I CALL A FAST RESPONSE......:D
IT SEEMS LIKE WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT.

PROBABLY PAPERWORKS ARE THE SAME AS SLOW AS IN MY COUNTRY....LOL:ok:

[Farrell]

Expect to wait between six months and one year - it is getting faster.

And in an effort to help yourselves, make sure to give more than is asked for when it comes to photocopies and photographs etc.

Farrell

[Number2]

No wonder I was told "don't resign yet!!"

Sounds like all governments work at the same pace. It must take special training.

[bocas0274]

THANKS......EVERYONE...........:ok:

[Gianni17]

I have to agree with Farrell on this one.I send the documents with photos and ten days later they told me they lost the photos(somewhere in the Minustry)and I need to send another 20 a.s.a.p.:ugh:

I think this will be a long and very stressfull waiting period.

Can anyone advise when they have his paperwork done(I will if someone wants).

Cheers all,

Gianni

[Obsidian09]

My Photos were lost as well!! Had to FedEx 20 more!!!:ooh:

[Waterfall]

Why on earth wud u have to send 20 more ???:confused::confused::confused:

[Red Dragon]

Why on earth wud u have to send 20 more ???

You're not from 'round these parts are ya boy.......

[Obsidian09]

:*who knows???

[black hawk down]

20 photos,i think these are usualy to open 20 files all around the country
internal office,police,all ministries concerned like forigen affairs....etc

[bocas0274]

just hoping this photos issue dont turn to be a standard problem......i mean, lossing them.....just fedex 20 photos from the other end of the world is not exciting at all...........:=

[Farrell]

"You're not from 'round these parts are ya boy......."

Red Dragon: Can you imagine what he's gonna be like if he gets here?

[Red Dragon]

Squeeeeeeealll.......

:eek::E

[Farrell]

Some typical phrases and their translations for newbies coming to Oman:

"Come back tomorrow." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"This is the wrong document." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Where is your PRO? He needs to be here. Please go and get him." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Only five photos? We need six." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Not this office. Go to the building on the other side of town." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Sorry. We are closed." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Ah…you are living in Mawaleh…you have to go to the local office." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"The system is down." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Where is your company stamp?" - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"The supervisor has gone to Dubai." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"He's not answering his phone." - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

"Where is the other form?" - "I can't be bothered to deal with this today."

This is how life is over here…..roll with it and you will have a great time.
Respect your hosts, play by their rules and this is really a great place to live.

Kick up a fuss, scream and stamp your feet - and they, just like me, will get loads of mileage out of seeing how far they can push you before you vaporize in front of them.
It's all part of the territory - and if there comes a day when you really, really need help….they will be there for you. Guaranteed.

[Excan]

You aint seen nothing yet! Wait til you arrive!:ugh:

Seriously, if you think this part (waiting) is stressful reconsider your plans.

Best of luck to all the new recruits.

[bocas0274]

Wouuuuu Farrel and Excan.........it sound just like my home country,,,,i will feel like home then........thanks for the headsup.:cool:

[Number2]

It took 4 years of waiting for residency (where I am now). I have to wait another 3 years BEFORE you can apply for citizenship. My wife applied for hers in April and got her first acknowledgement of application this week. The letter stated it was another 12-15 months to process her application but may even take longer.

I can be patient.......

[prascho]

http://muscatconfidential.*************/2009/11/flying-blind-omans-air-traffic-control.html


any commentary:(

[Undercover Dragon]

What is the opinion/comment from the people who prob know most on the ATC going down for 2 hours? (which seems to be accepted fact)...

muscatconfidential.*************

[black hawk down]

mabrook(cong) as if there is no any faults world wide but in Muscat
what are you digging for my friend,yes Muscat is a system which isnt 100% perfect?!?! and i guess all systems around the world arent either:D
spit it out?what happened that day was the first time ever.and i tell you we are 99%radar in Muscat and i guess the 1% happened that day so tuff luck to all,at least we never(at least since i joined) fired anyone because of faults.you see it a dominos effect else where(like next door) everyone blames who is below him for faliures,but we dont here in Muscat we support each other
p.s:dragon you dont need to post 2 messages to 2 fourms for the same question

[Undercover Dragon]

Black Hawk Down

I posted in 2 places because here I expected Muscat interested comments only, while I also wanted to hear from any pilots who might have experienced the ATC blackout too.

I don't really understand your comment, although it comes across as very defensive and supports the rumour that there is a cover up going on.

If the system was brought down by, say, a lightening strike, I could understand. But when it's brought down by incompetence and poor systems and procedures, I think it should be treated seriously. Having no radar at all for 30 min and basic radar blips only for 2 hrs must be a significant danger to the flights.

That it happened is history. It's not about blame, but making sure it doesn't happen again and ensuring everyone learns. A 's**t happens' attitude (which is what I interpret from your comment) is not what I expect from an ATC.

[black hawk down]

well s:mad:t does happen doesnt it?:rolleyes:
anyway this fourm has been productive for a while,we even got the thumbs up on the side:ok:
lets stick to assisting people who wanna come and work in Muscat instead
and what was said regarding what happened in (Muscatconfi) was written in a major hollywood bollywood style.just like what people watch in movies

[Vercingetorix]

Undercover Dragon
Black hawk down's comment
"at least we never(at least since i joined) fired anyone because of faults.you see it a dominos effect else where(like next door) everyone blames who is below him for faliures,but we dont here in Muscat we support each other"

cross refers to recent events at the UAE ACC which has had four serious power outages since the inception of the new SZC, In Muscat they look to cure the cause of any outage whereas at the UAE ACC they don't look for cause but, instead, look for scapegoats.

So far the UAE ACC Director Air Navigation Services & his advisor have been responsible for firing five control staff and two engineering staff recently in relation to the power outages (combined with these staff questioning the lack of ICAO mandated safety procedures) instead of asking if the cause of the outages had anything to do with their (DANS & advisor) designing of the system.

As Black hawk down says no system is perfect, i.e. the recent system failure at Shanwick on Oct 3rd occasioned the publishing of the following:

ATCSCC ADVZY 005 DCC 10.03/09 SHANWICK OCEANIC AIRSPACE
EUROCONTROL HAS ADVISED THAT SHANWICK OCEANIC AIRSPACE HAS BEEN CLOSED DUE TO ATC EQUIPMENT FAILURE. ALL WESTBOUND DEPARTURES OUT OF EUROPE HAVE BEEN GROUND STOPPED AT THIS TIME.
THERE IS NO ESTIMATE FOR A RESUMPTION OF AIR TRAFFIC SERVICES THROUGH THIS AIRSPACE. EXPECT FURTHER UPDATES AS RECEIVED.

Cheers :ok:

[black hawk down]

verci (BULLS EYE) couldnt have said it better myself:ok:
other ATC units all around the world have system faliures on regular bassis,and thats whats worth investigation and like you said(uncovering the uncovered)
good luck

[bocas0274]

BHD is right,,,,,some people in this industry are just short minded,,,,just looking who to blame,,,,before that incident i havent hear dragon congratulales anyone of the muscat staff for the good work they are doing,,althought they are doing good job 364 days a year,,but for 1 bad day he just want to throw everything away,,,i am shore thats administrative kind of thinking,we over here also have those kind of people,,dont worry.

keep up the good work boys.....:ok:

[Obsidian09]

Anything man made is subject to break down or fail...I know of events in the USA that lost entire flight data entry systems in Memphis ARTCC, Atlanta ARTCC, and loss of Primary and Primary Backup Radar systems being lost for at least 30 minutes at Cleveland ARTCC and Indianapolis ARTCC.....so it comes with the territory....sad to say with todays traffic volumes Non-Radar procedures help a small percentage of the time.......:cool:

[Undercover Dragon]

You don't get it. Of course stuff breaks. That is not the issue.

The issue is to find out why, fix the root causes (usually more than 1 or 2), and improve. Because its not supposed to break, is it.

But to cover it up and sweep it under the carpet because 'stuff like this happens everywhere even in Europe so stop asking questions' is just plain ignorant. And scary. And potentially symptomatic of deeper problems. (And don't try to tell me a sudden complete failure of radar and ATC electronic systems isn't dangerous.)

It needs to be properly examined by independent experts. Even if one of the root causes was someone screwing up, someone who happens to be related to the person in charge of the investigation, for example. Or even if another root cause is that, while systemic vulnerabilities in the design and operation of the ATC system had already been identified in a report, that nothing significant had been actioned to address the recommendations of the report by those responsible for the system.

[Vercingetorix]

Undercover Dragon
Actually, they do get it.
Whether you agree or not each country is an autonomous region responsible for its own oversight with it's own regulatory body and does it's best within its own legal structure.
I assume that you are from the USA and would therefore refer you to the recent fines on US airlines for non compliance with mandatory maintenance.
Put your own house in order before casting aspersions!


Cheers:ok:

[black hawk down]

the only one who seems never getting it is you Under cover?
why are you fixated on Muscat (mission imposible great conspiracy theroy)
people have told you that in Major big (BIG FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES)
s:mad:t like this happen:ugh:
and you always come back and blame the Muscat great espionage
go find the "roots" and what ever you find(leaves,flowers,stems...etc) what ever you want and when you Know who cut the cables
write it in your (Muscat problems fourm)

[black hawk down]

verci,you remeber when we mentioned sacking people (Scapegoats)!
i wanted to add that we dont have this in Muscat,but when we let people go(which is rare) we do that to people who have serious attiude problems or they are pure nut cases
and they are usualy like that when they do ATC but as persons they are very pleasent and social

[Vercingetorix]

Black Hawk Down
the Omanis have both manners and culture which the UAE ACC management (!) has not.
I hear that many Serco employees, following the recent 'Firing' debacle, are about to leave.
There is a big publicity PR show for the UAE ACC on 14th but it will be an empty shell of a performance. Basically RJ blowing on his own trumpet.
Cheers:ok:

[bocas0274]

BHD did non radar procedures applied that day or they dont use that anymore

regards......

[black hawk down]

No and i wouldnt lie
we dont have one
traffic has turned from drip by drip over a sudden turned into a shower in very few years
and the guys in office have failed to keep up
we dont have a back up and thats the truth
simple and blunt

[black hawk down]

verci we need people you to be here in Muscat to build and help have a proprer brick system:ok:

[RustyNail]

Oman is a beautiful country and the locals are the most freindly and socialble in the ME.

Up the contract prices and bring in the right people in the right "leadership" roles, re-write the book and establish new standards of excellence which will make you the envy of your neigbours, , the other ANS providers (GCAA, Serco) seem to be setting low standards and then still failing to achieve them.

[Undercover Dragon]

Fully agree Oman is both beautiful and locals are the best in the GCC.

BHD
Well, I'm focused on Muscat because I live here.

I'm concerned because I fly a lot and don't like the idea of such incidents being covered up or not investigated properly to protect a screw up by one or more well connected individuals.

But from your defensive utterances pointing at other places in the world, and attacking the messenger, I'd guess that you are personally involved in the incident.

I'd rather we just focused on getting Muscat ATC as good as we can get it, preferably until its as good as anywhere in the world and still 100% staffed by Omani professionals.

Those would be professionals who actually want to find out what can be improved and then doing something about it.

But I am glad your attitude of 's**t happens so lets not talk about it' is not shared by the people ultimately responsible for Muscat ATC.

[black hawk down]

U.C.D i personaly dont really give a toss of what you think,
me being envolved or not in what happend is my problem and you dont need to know anything and as you can see,your questions and suspense query have jsut echoed back at you.whats wrong with pointing at fine examples of such things happening all around the world,why cant you dig that "any system cant be 100% perfect"
now regarding you flying in and out of Muscat,you have two choices
1.dont fly
2.be a pro and pick up a pen and a paper and right your thoughts to DGMAN,instead of beating in the bush
now you can go back to your sad fourm and wait for someone to knock
:ugh:

p.s:i tell you what looking at the way you think,i really would be worried flying in a plane with you on the wheels:sad:

[Undercover Dragon]

Thanks for confirming that Black Hawk.

I'm sure we're all safer with people like you in Muscat ATC. Go team.

And don't worry, I know DGCAM is getting more in the picture every day...

You should not hesitate to give him your explanation of the event though, being a professional and all. It's a lot less work for everybody I suppose if he buys your POV that 'hey, s**t happens'.

[black hawk down]

your wellcome UCD
and oh yes,people are safe in Muscat airspace,coz we are d***n good
and after all those years in ATC,the last thing i need is an opinion from someone like you.
it seems you became a fan of my phrase((s**t happens)) coz all ATC units around the world live with that everyday
skies has a limit and it never increase in size,and more and more metal is launched into the sky everyday
but we handle them and we do that very well
i have a tip for you,go visit muscat ACC at 12am,and dont forget to put your pampers on
i rest my case:cool:

[wiking]

BHD - best idea you have had for a long time is to rest your case..
Your way of attacking other (worried) profs is not a prof controller worthy.
Face it - safety is here to stay and no one should ever cover anything up. Safety issues are to be discussed openly for others to learn...

[Late 1976]

Can anyone confirm the latest rumour that the first Visas, for the new expat intake, have arrived at the Muscat ACC?

Regards

[bocas0274]

its confirmed,,just dont know how many.......:D

[Late 1976]

Any idea when their paperwork was received in Muscat?

[!turnleftrightnow!]

Is it just a rumour or have applicants been contacted?
I have been waiting since August, now. :(

[Late 1976]

Heard this first-hand from someone who left Muscat recently. Apparently an Aussie and someone from Europe.

What I would like to know is when the Job Offers and initial paperwork arrived in Muscat, thereby calculating a waiting period.

[Number2]

Late 1976

Que sera sera I think.

Like it was said in a previous post, it can be as quick as 3 months or as long as a year to get clearances depending on various factors. I can't imagine that it will be the same time-frame for everyone.

Just have to sit and wait.......

[Vector361]

......awful quiet here.

BHD...

Still waiting on the headset models numbers. LOL!!!

See you soon I hope.

[black hawk down]

vector
lets hope that in those coming days news will flow
as its usual here in Muscat,the very end of the year is the time when news start pumping out,due to approvals for finance from the ministry....etc
so lets keep our fingers crossed
the latest i heard is that 5 visa have came out,but for who i dont know yet?

[black hawk down]

yep its quiet here
So i guess there wont be (jebal ali) airport for a while?
less traffic is good traffic:rolleyes:

[Tower Ranger]

Maybe it will give you time to catch up with the traffic that you already have!!
Do you think that the Muscat flow situation will improve when you get some more controllers or now that it is in place is it here to stay? If it is here to stay it needs some improvement as at night we Tardi delays regularly exceed an hour.

[Black or White]

There is very little chance that Muscat is going to catch up with the traffic situation in the near future. The new staff will have no impact for the surrounding FIR's as there are no additional Sectors or frequencies available to reduce the workload. There is always plenty of talk about all sorts of improvements that are "on the way" but the reality is nothing is going to happen any time soon. The flow restrictions that are in place are a very crude attempt to slow down the number of aircraft entering the Muscat FIR. This places an unfair workload on the UAE towers and the Area Sectors. Although a more even distribution of delays across the whole region would be a better solution, there is no method available to achieve this. What you need to understand is that the flow restrictions are in place for the safety of the controllers at the coalface and the flying public. A recent audit stated that the Central Sector should not exceed 12 aircraft at a time due to the airspace size and complexity. The traffic still exceeds 25 regularly even with the flow restrictions.

The Middle East Region is in desperate need of adopting a similar model to Eurocontrols 'Single European Sky'. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen in either your or my lifetime.

[zkpjm]

Do you think that the Muscat flow situation will improve when you get some more controllers or now that it is in place is it here to stay? If it is here to stay it needs some improvement as at night we Tardi delays regularly exceed an hour.

It's probably worth pointing out that while many perceive delays are simply due to Muscat there is a wider picture. UAE can send traffic out 10-20 miles in trail but then Muscat have to deliver this traffic 10mins plus at same level into Mumbai's patch. When I worked Muscat there was provision for mach number technique however the Indians rarely accepted this even though it was included in LOA's....

And then of course there is the story of a B777 and Mach.83 11 minutes ahead of an A340 at Mach.82 which Mumbai refused to accept because "the one with the 4 engines will catch the one with the 2 engines". With logic like this Muscat is always going to wear the sh&t in the sandwich..:(

[ATCO1962]

What zkpjm said.

The only unit that Muscat deals with where we can hand off using radar separation is the UAE. EVERY other unit requires procedural separations i.e. Tehran, Karachi, Mumbai, Sanaa and Bahrain. The UAE, being our biggest customer, by dint of being able to throw as many aircraft as they wanted into that maelstrom, meant that we daily exceeded any reasonable levels of traffic for all our sectors. We have ample, statistical evidence of that. Even with the "flow control", we are often in fairly dire straits trying to provide reasonable levels to eastbound aircraft because of the sheer volume of aircraft that hit us, particularly from late evening to early morning.

Add to that the ramp-up of military traffic, who mostly just "pop up",, that has increased to service the Afghanistan conflict and you have a very difficult time every day.

I do have a lot of sympathy for having to merge TARDI and LABRI traffic using the procedures as given. I would hope that they would be simplified so that it doesn't mean that TARDI departures incur the types of delay as indicated. I was surprised to hear that one hour figure.

We don't appear to have a dedicated think-tank here to get to grips with an expeditious solution. I would think that until the airlines force the issue, we are in for a long wait.

On another note, still no sign of any newbies. People leaving, but no replacements as yet.

[ferris]

We don't appear to have a dedicated think-tank here to get to grips with an expeditious solution. It's not that hard- you just need more bodies. Obviously the failure is where operations meets politics. The torch needs to be lit there.

[black hawk down]

we need people there is no question about that?
but we also need better procdures
as i dont see how extra bodies can find it easier to turn 10's of planes 10 miles in trail into planes 10 mins in trail without correct procedures

[skydiveacc]

Hello there .

If you don't mind me asking about maps of Muscat FIR and LOA, if you can send me please,or give the address maps of Muscat FIR and LOA where I can find it.
I have accepted the offer , but I'm just waiting to get all the final approvals and work visa.I would like preliminary to familiarise with them.
Regards:)
"skydiveacc".

[Gianni17]

HAHAHAHA!!!

Skydiveacc,

By the time your or any visa gets the approval from various ministries etc. you will be able to get another University Degree.:rolleyes:

Man,it is too early for that stuff,cross that bridge when you get there.

Cheers all future Muscateers,

Gianni

[Unrestricted Climb]

Nothing to worry about Skydiveacc, you will be given ample time to familiarize with the Omani airspace once you get there; after the immigration and settling formalities, which are taking some time, you will be sent to the training centre to attend a 4 to 5-week familiarization course prior to start OJT.
Trying to learn the airspace alone, without knowledge of the SOPs and the LOAs, would confuse you rather than help.
Get patient, everything comes in due time...
Unrestricted Climb

[ATC12]

If anybody knows when the Simulation/OJT training for the new people begins and If that will be in group or individually according to the arrivals. Thanks for your reply :rolleyes:

[black hawk down]

30 ATCOs have been accepted by civil aviation,their papers are somewhere in the ministry
5 visas are issued and will be sent to the lucky first bunch
wellcome to Muscat:ok:

[Farrell]

BHD (Z)

You are due a visit to us as well to have your Level 3 renewed! Mwahahah! :}

[black hawk down]

come on farrey boy,
you are wrong again im level 5
who is (z)
its a kick in the balls when you still dont know who i am?!
and every one on pprune know who you are:}

[prascho]

I dont know:rolleyes:

[Farrell]

BHD

I think it's excellent that no-one knows who you are!
Level 5? - must be a typing error on your cert :D

"and every one on PPRuNe know who you are"
Hardly rocket science is it? Seeing as though I use my real name! ;)

[black hawk down]

yeah i guess thats why they hired you ferry so you can fix my english.
i see that you live in the training centre now days,evertime i climb on that bridge i see you car parked there after office hours.
cutting on expenses are we
i bet you are working hard in the trainig centre like everyone there:ugh:


hope i promot to level 6 now

[RustyNail]

"hope i promot to level 6 now"

Not with spelling and grammer like that :E

[Farrell]

"i see that you live in the training centre now days,evertime i climb on that bridge i see you car parked there after office hours"

Heheheh......sometimes there's just not enough hours in the day mate!

"i bet you are working hard in the trainig centre like everyone there"
Nah! My colleagues work much much harder than I do.
In fact, some of them don't even go home during the week :)

"hope i promot to level 6 now" - definitely! :)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b140/quartermilefinal/e.jpg

[black hawk down]

"tanks yuo vrey big mister for zis nice baber
im sory me no spek good english very well farewell"

farrey thanks to you for all the courses you conducted over the years,we are all still failures in english
but hay we still bailed you?:ok:
R.N: i speak more than one language,thats why im not a "Shakespeare" like you. im a "sheikh" only without the "speare"

[black hawk down]

for all who wanna "not" depend on farewell expertise(coz he is so busy in the training centre)
you can use this for help
Proficiency Tests - RMIT English Language Test for Aviation (RELTA) - Melbourne, Australia (http://www.relta.org/proficiencytests.html)

[Farrell]

"farrey thanks to you for all the courses you conducted over the years,we are all still failures in english"

Hah! Yes, sorry. I forgot the main objective of the course is that you just sit there and text your habibi and then sit and stare at the screen during the exam going "No one said anything about a test!"

As was explained at the very beginning.....you have to take the stuff home and study it......"but, but, but, my sister needs her passport and I have to take things to Ruwi and then I'm going to Sohar and, and, and...."

"but hay we still bailed you?""

Yeah. Right! :)
http://projecthorse.org/images/hay_bale.jpg

[black hawk down]

you can make beer out of that and drink it
and you kept on giving your lectures like a talk machine,and said
well ferry if you cant beat them join them
maybe you are not that good teacher and bored all to death:ugh:
anyways guys whats new,i heard that some new kids on the block have recived their visas already any comments?

[BIRD2008]

I just got an e-mail telling me that the Visa has arrived and I take care of my current employment. It is not certain at the moment when I will be arriving in Muscat but hopefully not long after 1. april.

I'm very much so looking forward to coming over.:ok:

[black hawk down]

wellcome abroad,we are happy to have you in MUscat:D

[black hawk down]

farrey another one for you:ok:




Can You Read This

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too
Cna yuo raed tihs?

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was
rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a
rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht
oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht
the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is
bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but
the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot
slpeling was ipmorantt!

[RustyNail]

"R.N: i speak more than one language,thats why im not a "Shakespeare" like you"

Definately not a Shakespeare, I can assure you of that.

And I only speak 3 languages, you might have me beat on that one :ok:

[black hawk down]

i see that your english isnt any better than mine mate
pefff check your post:bored:

""And I only speak 3 languages, you might have me beat on that one http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif "

[prascho]

kids..........

[black hawk down]

parscho,yeah i know they are;)
any news from your side?

[prascho]

I've sold my car;)

[black hawk down]

you will buy a better one here
that is for sure my friend

[RustyNail]

BHD "i see that your english isnt any better than mine mate
pefff check your post"

I don't know where you learnt English then pal, I can't believe you could actually be a controller.

Are you mentally retarded ???

[black hawk down]

"Arab engrish" very racist?!?!
you are a very sad person,who have nothing better to do

[bocas0274]

RN what you write here says a lot of you........be a professional men...

[black hawk down]

Farrel,my friend any news regarding the new applicants selection yet?
wats up my man?:ok:

[Farrell]

BHD

Haven't heard anything so far mate.
You know how it is! ;)

Farrell

[black hawk down]

i feel for all the people who are just waiting and waiting,time pass by so slow
(like they say no new is good news):confused:

[Farrell]

BHD

The new apps exams are all corrected.
SureSelect is starting in about two weeks. So I imagine that once those are done then folks will be told they have passed.
Can't say that we were stunningly impressed by the quality of a lot of the candidates so far but we should be able to gather the numbers required.

Busy times ahead buddy. Very busy.

Farrell

[black hawk down]

What is sure select?:confused:

[divingduck]

Is this some form of an assessment of prior competency?

[Farrell]

Yep

Sure Select (http://www.airways.co.nz/airways_international/training/sureselect.asp)

[black hawk down]

are they going to get people from NZ to run those tests?

[Farrell]

Nope.

Some staff at the training centre have already been trained on the system, so testing will be done there.

Relax folks! Everything is under control! :D

[zkjaws]

who's being tested?
qualified controllers or candidates for controller training?
not sure it will do any good - most people selected using this system in the land of the long white cloud failed to qualify

[black hawk down]

i think its cands?
JAWS are you saying that this system is a faliure?!?!
coz as far as i know that alot of ATCO's working along side me are from your side of the world are product of this Franchise?:ugh:

[Number2]

But if they work in Muscat, they must have been licenced elsewhere and therefore the system was a success for them........

I really don't get the point that BHD is trying to make - is that just me?

Probably as successful as SHL elsewhere in the world.

[divingduck]

That remark about SHL testing, was that tongue in cheek or serious?

[Black or White]

You really do need to think about what it is you are trying to say before adding comment on this forum. You should also follow that up with finding out some simple facts. Sure Select is a product designed by HR for the purpose of recruiting new controllers. The vast majority of controllers in Muscat have been qualified for many years more than Sure Select has been in use. Why don't you walk around the centre and ask any of the expat controllers if they believe that these tests issued by people who have no clue about our job really work. I think you will not find too many. Failure rates in Australia and New Zealand, where similar testing takes place are still too high.

[black hawk down]

how come it always me who is getting all the slashing around here?
check my post again ,its in a fourm of a question?!?!
and its not me who said(not sure it will do any good - most people selected using this system in the land of the long white cloud failed to qualify )check earlier post by others
im just saying that we never had a problem with using our own way of selection all through the years ,so why use Sure select now:rolleyes:

[prascho]

Hah Sure Select test?!!?!?!
About AIRWAYS....good deal guys, ME is a gold-mine:D
About DGMAN.... guys find a better way to spend your money the next time
About me.....let me know if u r going to lose my time whit sh:mad:ts like that:=
NZ and Oman have a long way to go before to achieve our levels of safety and quality

[ATCO1962]

prascho,

On what basis do you make that last remark? Unless you work here and can make a valid comparison, how can you possibly know?

You may be pleasantly surprised at the quality of many of our ATCOs here, who have all had to raise their game due to the huge increase in traffic levels.

If you're heading this way, be ready for a workload that may prove interesting for you. Not every expat checks out here.

[Fox3snapshot]

prascho is that the direct translation from Bulgarian to English of Pratco??? Just wondering that's all....

NZ and Oman have a long way to go before to achieve our levels of safety and quality....you mention in your profile that you are from Bulgaria which is ironic as I have always placed that part of the world as a benchmark within the industry! :hmm:

:E Ahhhh its good to be back!! Hope everybody's New Year has started well!