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Hussar 54
6th Nov 2008, 09:13
Not terribly technical....

Had the pleasure of a day in Budapest last week and noticed that the Malev NG's don't have winglets....

Are these the only NG's without winglets ? And wonder why.....

And more importantly, do / would these aircraft handle differently to ' normal ' NG's ?

diakon
6th Nov 2008, 09:29
Winglets are an option for the NG's, you can see plenty on them without winglets.

The main diference talking about handling the beast is the tendency to float during the flare of the winglet NG's making greasser landings easier to achieve.:ok:

Rainboe
6th Nov 2008, 10:08
Are you sure they are NGs? Winglets only have a positive effect in high altitude cruise. So unless they do long ranges, they are not worth the surprisingly expensive option of fitting. They also have significant weight in wing reinforcing affecting payload.

Hussar 54
6th Nov 2008, 12:52
Thanks for the info....

I believe they are NG's as they are liveried as - 600's on the fuselage of the couple we were holding behind...

Can't say I've ever seen any other NG's without winglets - I've always assumed no winglet = 300 / 400 / 500 series....But I'm not a spotter / techno-nerd so don't know of any visual differences other than the winglets...

But strange if the winglets are basically to improve performance on longer stage lengths as Hungary to more or less anywhere else in Europe not served by RJ's and T/P's could perhaps justify the extra purchase and operating costs involved....

Checkboard
6th Nov 2008, 14:58
None of the easyJet NGs have winglets.

Denti
6th Nov 2008, 15:18
We fly our -700 with and without winglets. Only operational difference is a higher max take off weight on winglet ones and a slightly lower crosswind limit (33 vs 35 kts on dry runway). On longer sectors the winglet equipped airplanes use a bit less fuel, but the difference is not all that big per flight, still makes a difference if considered fleet wide.

levantes
6th Nov 2008, 16:11
The winglet equiped NG will have better fuel consumption during cruise.
The longer the flight the less (about 3%) it burns compared to the non equiped.
Personally I find the NG with winglets to be more demanding on crosswind landings. Friends that flown the non winglet NG say that it behaves better especially during gusts.
As far as flare is concerned due to the thin-long wing the a/c tends to continue fly. An added factor to that is the high approach speed especially on Flaps 30!

Continuous Ignition
6th Nov 2008, 16:45
On this side of the pond, my airline Southwest Airlines we have about 30+ -300's with winglets and our whole fleet of about 320+ -700's have winglets. No winglet is yet certified for the -600 fleet and I doubt Aviation Partners/Boeing will take the time and expense to get one certifed on that aircraft. Too few opertators and not sure if anyone will give up one airplane to use as a test-bed for the certification process.

We just recently started having the mod done to our -300 fleet about a year ago. Only our newest -300's will be fitted. Not sure what the total number will be but should be less than 100. The mod process is much more indepth and requires a large modification to the wingtip structure which wasn't designed for the added weight/aerodynamic forces. But then again what do I know, I just repair the blasted things. ;)

Aviation Partners Boeing (http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/)

Denti
6th Nov 2008, 18:53
An added factor to that is the high approach speed especially on Flaps 30!

As far as i know only the -800 and -900 have increased approach speeds to limit body angle and reduce the tailstrike risk. The -700 actually has quite low approach speeds, especially if compared to the -300 which has nearly the same size. Usual speeds for us on the -700s are 118 to 130, on the -300 124 to 140. Which is why i personally prefer the NG into very short fields.

balaton
6th Nov 2008, 21:22
It is a simple cost/benefit question. Malev decided not to pay for those fancy winglets. Anyway, winglets are not available for the -600.

Capt. Inop
7th Nov 2008, 02:00
And more importantly, do / would these aircraft handle differently to ' normal ' NG's ?

Add winglets to the 7 and 800 (my field of experience) and it will pitch up real fast on departure.
As well as the extra lift on landing is quite noticable.
On the 800 keep the power on all the way down and close the throttles carefully while performing the "boeing push" .
It might soften the crash a bit or minimize the floating :}