Perm Crash Pilots Used Fake Papers

[Capot]

I'm a bit surprised no-one has picked this up yet, or perhaps someone did and I've been looking in the wrong place;

The Moscow Times

31 October 2008

The pilots of the Aeroflot-Nord jetliner that crashed during its approach to the Perm airport last month gave false information about their qualifications to fly, a top aviation safety investigator said Thursday.

The damning comments by Gennady Kurzenkov, head of the State Aviation Inspection Service, appeared to confirm suspicion that pilot error was to blame for the Sept. 14 crash, which killed all 88 people on board.

Kurzenkov said the pilots of the Boeing 737 had submitted false documents to the airline showing that they had passed preflight courses, Itar-Tass reported. He did not elaborate.

The flight attendants also had false documents saying they were qualified to fly on international flights, he said. The Aeroflot-Nord flight was a domestic flight from Moscow to Perm. More.... (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/1010/42/372073.htm)

And please let's not have too much of the "Well waddya expect"; I've worked for at least 2 CAA-regulated airlines some of whose pilots' documentation would not have borne too close an audit, to say nothing of the engineers......

[icarus sun]

With the FAA you can get details of ratings and medical from their website. All the rest hide the details from public.:mad:

[Airbubba]

With the FAA you can get details of ratings and medical from their website. All the rest hide the details from public.

And, as discussed on earlier threads, there are a few characters out there with phony type ratings and command time who have found a home in the expat world.

[Bruce Wayne]

With the FAA you can get details of ratings and medical from their website. All the rest hide the details from public.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif

You can choose to opt out, which I do. My licence and rating information is between me, the FAA and who 'I' or the 'FAA' disclose it to in the course of aviation related business.

[doubleu-anker]

Well they do slip through the net now and again.

I remember a case over 30 years ago in the USA. This guy had been flying Dc8's for well over 10 years and doing quite well at it from all accounts. However, it was revealed, either through a more detailed audit, or someone ratted on him, that he held nothing more than a PPL. :)

[GlueBall]

Irrespective of unverified background experience, no airline will put a newly hired pilot into the seat of a transport category airplane on a revenue flight without first having demonstrated performance in a simulator and in the airplane under the supervision of a check airman.

[icarus sun]

Bruce only privacy act info and addresses are withheld.

[Capot]

Er, Glueball, make that no airline is supposed to put a newly hired pilot .............. would you?

I've seen it done, relatively recently, and I imagine others have too.

[bear11]

Glueball, I'd amend that admirable comment with "no airlines that I know in my part of the world".

[WindSheer]

Irrespective of unverified background experience, no airline will put a newly hired pilot into the seat of a transport category airplane on a revenue flight without first having demonstrated performance in a simulator and in the airplane under the supervision of a check airman.

You have to admit that given the aids available today to wannabees, along with hours available to purchase in full motion sim's, that someone could POSSIBLY make the grade on a sim check. I am not saying that it would be a walk in the park, but the determination COULD see someone slip through the net with false papers.

I can remember a contract italian pilot working for the company I used to a few years back, flying the bus. Every captain that flew with him said they had NO DOUBT that most of the hours in his log book were fake. :uhoh:

Safe flying chaps...:ok:

[flash8]

Why spend a fortune on the Sim, when a CPL/IR could get you onto the Boeing or Bus by simply buying a TR and line-time? Not only that.... its legal!

How many of you could distinguish between a 300TT and a 3000TT RHS? It's not a simple as you think!

[barit1]

Which merely illustrates, IMHO, that logbook hours are a relatively poor measure of airmanship.

[Private jet]

This kind of thing is not confined to the "third world". In my career i have come across two such individuals. First was the infamous Airtours "parker pen pilot" who fabricated an entire RAF flying career but was only found out a couple of years into flying a 757, the other had a dubious "career" in the U.S/Caribean before returning to the UK to fly bizjets and later 737's for a loco. Last i heard he had gone to ground and was "on the run" from the CAA....The interesting thing is both these guys passed every exam, test, course, sim check and line check they ever did, and were to all intents and purposes competent pilots.

[Rotorhead1026]

been flying Dc8's for well over 10 years and doing quite well at it from all accounts. However, it was revealed, either through a more detailed audit, or someone ratted on him, that he held nothing more than a PPL

I remember this ... he worked for Eastern. A fed looked at his license during an observation ride and thought the printing looked a little funny. He wired Oke City and ...

The guy was fired, and I'm not sure what sanctions he wound up paying ... but I'm pretty sure he eventually got a legitimate commercial license and ... [drumroll] ...got a job as an FAA inspector. I'm not making this up. :ugh:

[Private jet]

The guy was fired, and I'm not sure what sanctions he wound up paying ... but I'm pretty sure he eventually got a legitimate commercial license and ... [drumroll] ...got a job as an FAA inspector. I'm not making this up.

The FBI employed Mr Abignale. Maybe the FAA employed this guy to find others who have taken the shortcut to the flightdeck:)

[B772]

GlueBall. Obviously you do not know about Orient Thai !

[Romeo India Xray]

The worrying thing is when there is a guy who has legitimate papers and a traceable flying history that includes several hundreds or thousands of hours and still cant fly. I have heard of one guy with 3000+ GA hours loosing it in a GA evalutaion sim ride not once but THREE times. The aeros started just after Vr. Profile was wind down the slot, all engine departure in 5km viz. :ugh:

[Check Airman]

"You can choose to opt out, which I do. My licence and rating information is between me, the FAA and who 'I' or the 'FAA' disclose it to in the course of aviation related business."

Most people don't even know it exists. I'm with you. That information is not the public's business.

BTW...How the devil does one do quotes on PPRuNe?

[ChristiaanJ]

BTW...How the devil does one do quotes on PPRuNe?

1. Select and copy the text you want to quote.
2. Open the "Reply" panel.
3. Click on the yellow square PostIt-like thingie on the right in the toolbar.
This puts (quote) and (/quote) in the "Reply" panel, but with square brackets, so they acts as "tags".
4. The cursor will be between the (quote) and the (/quote) tags. Paste the text you've copied earlier.

If you want to, you can edit the first (quote) tag to add the user name of the person you're quoting, like this (quote="Check Airman").
This gives, when using the real tags with square brackets:
quoted text

Hope this helps...

CJ

[Check Airman]

1. Select and copy the text you want to quote.
2. Open the "Reply" panel.
3. Click on the yellow square PostIt-like thingie on the right in the toolbar.
This puts (quote) and (/quote) in the "Reply" panel, but with square brackets, so they acts as "tags".
4. The cursor will be between the (quote) and the (/quote) tags. Paste the text you've copied earlier.

Thanks! I finally know how to do it. I've been wondering for the longest time. I wonder if the site admins would consider adding a "quote" box beside the "reply" box by posts, like other forums do. That'd be convenient.

[Mat Tongkang]

Heard from a KAL source that quite a number of fakers in kimchi land too!
Wonder if the insurers will now fight and refuse to pay up.

Must be quite disconcerting to be flying as a paxing crew or even be an augment crew with such fellas. Your wifeys may not get to be millioaire widows after all if you wee to become a major statistic in a big prang.:{