Ayla Aaa Jordan [Archive]

bestpilotbestpilot

25th Sep 2008, 16:35

graduate soon!!!!!! u r so funny guys, i am one of class E, every single week we receive a master plan with new graduation day and with a new plan, that's reallllly disapointing.
class A, B, C and D told me how good was Captain Lena when she was running the flight school. I am still wondering and would like to know why she first left the flight school and moved to the ground school, again the classes in the ground school now told me how much they r happy with her, again am wondering why she resigned.
just to let you know guys that i decided to leave the academy imediately after i knew that she resigned, and most of E students took that decision as well, there will be a lot of surprises for the SMART CEO of Ayla after Eid.

devil_pilot

25th Sep 2008, 17:22

LOL !!!!!

Don't be so pissed bro inshallah things will get better :8

goneeast

25th Sep 2008, 17:58

two quotes..
1) To the hard working students (and you know who you are)

Non illegitemum carborundum.

2) To the staff (if any remain after this ......

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King.

Nuff said. :\

devil_pilot

25th Sep 2008, 22:20

:ok:ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM. Phrase. "Don't let the bastards grind you down.":ok:

gilderoy lockhart

26th Sep 2008, 05:45

Best Pilot,

If you and Course E are leaving Ayla what do the BDB and Gulf Air have to say?. Will you get refund's on the loan, can you continue elsewhere?

devil_pilot

27th Sep 2008, 00:18

I'm afraid that BDB and GF will be or are aware of the situation

You can go anywhere you want BDB is giving the loan as long as you join a flight training organisation

For GF i think they stop any contract or whatever because it's not within their approval

I still don't understand why they chose Jordan when you have US Canada Far East Australia NEw Zealand even UAE:ugh:

AIM HI

29th Sep 2008, 09:21

:cool:(in The Land Of The Blind The One Eyed Man Is King).
Wow Goneeast, Are They That Bad?

goneeast

29th Sep 2008, 15:23

AIM HI,

Probably unfair to some very dedicated individuals, what I mean really is for staff to "cover your 6 and have alternate plans" , because I'd really like to know staff turnover numbers in the last 18 months. :eek:

bestpilotbestpilot

29th Sep 2008, 20:24

i still want someone to tell me the story behind Captain Lena's resignation !!!!!!!!

Ayla

30th Sep 2008, 08:09

Gather the Head Of Training designate has been removed as well!

mafemukh

1st Oct 2008, 04:14

Hi Ayla,
Just to correct your last, I removed myself, and for reasons that I will not go into here. Suffice it to say that I apologize to all my cadet friends at Ayla who were expecting my instruction and advice - but that's aviation, dynamic to say the least!!
PS. My help is still available but at [email protected]

devil_pilot

1st Oct 2008, 10:27

Correction and Offer
Hi Ayla,
Just to correct your last, I removed myself, and for reasons that I will not go into here. Suffice it to say that I apologize to all my cadet friends at Ayla who were expecting my instruction and advice - but that's aviation, dynamic to say the least!!
PS. My help is still available but at http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?emailimage=39621db57edfb8f86d24dfd7bff6f4c1

Are you telling us your quitting Ayla too ?:eek:

Mr. Aviation

1st Oct 2008, 14:47

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...
congratulation M.atalla:D
You’ve just loose the second respectful and knowledgebl person in Ayla… good job :ok:
what you'll do, just want to know, whats your next step:confused:
hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
GOD BE WITH U...
That what happened when you leave a TOY in KIDS hands to play with
AVIATION NOT FOR KIDS // WAKE UP brother:ouch:
mafemukh:
belive me ur the best and u can ask all of he cadets at AYLA ur name was in everywhere talking about u all the good things you've dun it for the cadets...thank you for being there...and trust me after you and Co-Founder...no 1 will stay at ayla, just wait and watch..

Mikee87

1st Oct 2008, 15:26

In response to the person who asked about BDB loan repayments.

The BDB loan is independent of Gulf Air and Ayla Aviation. The loan is simply a glorified remodel of their existing educational loan. It's open to Bahraini nationals who wish to take up flight training at a flight training organization of their choice (with some conditions).

The loan is relatively risk free to BDB as the vast majority of applicants need to nominate a guarantor or a 'sponsor' with a sizable income to pay off their debts should the student not be able to make repayments on time.

This is usually an immediate family member in most cases. BDB also ask for a ridiculous number of post-dated cheques from your guarantor to be issued to them as a safeguard - I believe they ask for 4 years worth of cheques.. This means that once your repayment 'grace' period of 1 year comes to an end, BDB will automatically start cashing in those cheques on a monthly basis.

mafemukh

1st Oct 2008, 16:25

Thank you for your kind words; however, make decisions about your future based on sound information and not emotion. There are still many fine instructors at Ayla who care about your development and your future - so make your decision with your head and not your heart!:ok:

mafemukh

1st Oct 2008, 16:32

Sorry Devil Pilot, yes, I have quit. I reached a stage where there were too many differences in vision and perceptions to continue. Therefore, I am sitting at a tea-house in Kalamazoo, Michigan, relaxing and planning what to do/where to go next.
I regret that I will not be physically present to help you realize your dreams but I will be there spiritually and, of course, available by email.
Eid Mubarak - and may God's blessings be upon you all at Ayla!!

Mr. Aviation

1st Oct 2008, 17:44

no problem capt.
Capt, this is the fact..!! Many cadets felt bad when they have heard this shocking news,
You said that to think and not to follow the heart or motions. Fine, well if am going to think logically Ayla’s situation getting worst and worst..
Secondly, I do agree that there some good instructors at Ayla but who knows if the other good instructors aren’t planning to leave as well?
With all my respect to thus employee and cadets, Ayla started very aggressively with their good and respectful instructors
Now, all these things gone and Ayla’s reputation goes down day after day…
Capt. You know from where all these problems came from, but you don’t wanna mention it…and its good do not mention it to anyone, but at least stand with us and admit that this time is Ayla’s mistake (when I say Ayla, I meant M.Atalla)
Anyhow, since Mr.Atalla still sleeping and dreaming, you can go and find yourself at somewhere else as you said, this is aviation….
God bless you capt. And keep in touch, I’ll email you my personal email address for your good advices (don’t get shocked once you know me)
best of luck to u capt..t.c

devil_pilot

1st Oct 2008, 18:32

HEHHEHE Captain Sex Triumph and Rock and Roll

Hope ur having fun in Michigan ridding ur bike

Thank you very much for all your support and kind words and may Allah be with you

Be safe and remember taking chances are foolish :8:8 LOL

Best Regards from all Aylas Extravert --- stable or unstable doesnt matter heheheh

A90A3192021

1st Oct 2008, 22:53

You'll be missed Capt! I personally support your decision and id probably do the same if i were in your shoes..

We all know things are getting worse day by day in Ayla, and this wont stop since the micromanager decides to let loose and delegate some of the work :ugh:

Thoughts of leaving come to mind everyday and the stress is building up on students.. just hope everything goes well when we get back or else a handfull are packing up like they said... enjoy the Harley :ok:& keep in touch

gilderoy lockhart

2nd Oct 2008, 11:30

How can all the experienced Aviation Professionals that have left Ayla in it's first 18 months after disagreements with the CEO, be wrong? There has been at least 3 CGI's, 2 CFI's, 2 Maintenance managers, HOT, Quality Manager, numerous ground and flight Instructors and as many support staff!

devil_pilot

2nd Oct 2008, 11:54

:ugh:I Still Don't understand why GF and BDB did approv this Academy :ugh:

gilderoy lockhart

2nd Oct 2008, 12:21

Devil Pilot,

Most of the approval work was done by the AFT appointee's and the previous CEO, who was returned to AFT, a lot of work was also done by the 2 resignee's mentioned on this thread! The awarding and subsequent success of the Gulf Bridge training programme from Qatar Aeronautical College to Ayla, with much help from Dave B, helped pave the way.

devil_pilot

2nd Oct 2008, 12:25

gilderoy lockhart,

Important things u mentionned and im thankful for that :ok:

You must have good knowledge and infos on what is going on

It's not even about the Ayla it's about the whole region, politics, and corruption in Jordan

They are simply Bull**** , CARC is a complete jokk with no structure

They just mix everything and they don't even what they are doing

.Aero

4th Oct 2008, 10:55

They are simply Bull**** , CARC is a complete jokk with no structureThis is key area wannabees should take into consideration when short listing potential FTOs. Training organizations will tend to produce pilots of a much higher calibre when the FTO in question is required (by statutory law) to comply with stringent regulation, and such regulation is applied and enforced by the authority! Naturally this raises the bar of safety, consistency in training, and standards all round. You will ultimately hold licences and ratings issued by the governing civil aviation authority and not the flight school itself - in the case of Ayla Aviation, the issuing state/body is Jordan's CARC.

bestpilotbestpilot

4th Oct 2008, 19:51

guys,

we all have to work together to find a solution for our problem, Mr.Atalla as my freind said is sleeping and dreaming, he is playing with our future, WHAT SHALL WE DO??????:eek:

i personnally decided to leave but i don't know what to do or where to go? my PPL written exam wil be by the end of October, after that am not gonna stay a single second. :{

i think first thing, we have to talk to BDB and GF and tell them what's going on? do anybody know who is our contact person in GF and BDB?

devil_pilot

4th Oct 2008, 20:18

BestPilot

Ur in ayla which class Fox ?

Regards

What you think would be the solutation

And i think BDB and GF are already aware or Mr Atallas flight school

Mr. Aviation

4th Oct 2008, 23:21

dear best pilot,

i've heard frm some ppl that some cadets already contacted BDB & GF regarding this issues, as now BDB & GF aware of all of the problems at Ayla
dont worrey, they will find a solution..
take care my friend

A90A3192021

4th Oct 2008, 23:38

All we need is a thorough audit from Gulf Air and some follow up from the Bank and I think this bullsh*t will cut down.. :sad:

bestpilotbestpilot

5th Oct 2008, 16:44

thanks all,

but am really worried, what if GF and BDB came and audited ayla and captain marwan convensed them that this is aviation and because his main concern is safety as he always says, anybody asks him why is the delay why u promised people that they will graduate in 16 or 18 months he always says weather, safety and this is aviation, he will never ever say there is a shortage in flight instructors or there is a shortage in airplanes and he is still attracting people a ready to open new courses. am really worried guys because by the end of october after we finish the ppl exam, there will be class B, C, E and F at the flight line, with 7 airplanes and don't know how many instructors because every single day somebody tells us that one instructor resigned and they hired new one.... this academy will drive me crazy.:ugh:

devil_pilot

5th Oct 2008, 19:30

And they talk of high standards ????!!!!!

They just hired 3 new fresh instructors !!! do u call this experienced ?

Anyway they are more busy preparing the Football game rather than thinking that ayla has only 7 airplanes for 100 students

"I would suggest them that course G should join next month " ahahahahah:8:8

Mr. Aviation

5th Oct 2008, 20:33

looooooooooooooool
nice one pilitio...!!!!!!!!!

gilderoy lockhart

6th Oct 2008, 03:53

Reading across from the Oxford Aviation and Gulf Air training academy thread, there seems to be discussions going on as to the future partner in MPL with Gulf Air. Ayla has been mentioned so perhaps another Audit from Gulf Air may be on the cards!

sic_ko

6th Oct 2008, 23:09

Iam in course E, and they change my instructor 3 times, and I have 3 hourse.

.Aero

7th Oct 2008, 10:45

This was on the front page of Bahrain's Arabic newspaper 'AlAyam (http://www.alayam.com/Archive/PDF/2008/10/7//Page01.pdf)' [opens as pdf]

Two Bahraini trainee pilots based at a flight school in Aqaba are being investigated by the Jordanian intelligence agencies for pouncing around 'sensitive' areas on the Israeli/Jordanian borders.

Bored cowboys?

http://i38.tinypic.com/kyckh.jpg

devil_pilot

7th Oct 2008, 13:12

Don't Know where this pic was taken from :ugh:

Ayla owns C172 , it's not Aylas color , registration in US and certainly not aqaba !

WTH !!!!!:*

goneeast

7th Oct 2008, 13:44

Where the photo is from, and the fact that it is not an Ayla aircraft has zero relevence. Journalists won't travel xxx miles to get a photo when one of similar type can be found from archive. The average reader knows nothing, it is the (alleged) investigation that is of concern.

But shouldnt be a problem soon, with no instructors, no one will get airborne !!

goneeast

7th Oct 2008, 13:47

Further to previous post,

Im sure intellegence services don't "leak" the investigations that they are carrying out to foriegn newspapers.

gilderoy lockhart

7th Oct 2008, 13:47

Suspect it was a generic photo used to illustrate the article! The proximity of Aqaba airport to Eilat in Israel was always a concern, may well have been accidental!

P.S anyone care to translate the article?

.Aero

7th Oct 2008, 14:16

Ayla owns C172 , it's not Aylas color , registration in US and certainly not aqaba

Do you readily disregard everything you read in your ATPL manuals as they contain depictions of large transport aircraft?

devil_pilot

7th Oct 2008, 16:25

So thats the prob u guyz are all under the influence of articles in the paper

They make you believe anything ahahahahah !!!!

Think how this infos came to Bahrain ????!!!!!

And by the way the thread is to talk about the problem in Ayla not that 2 bahrainis were questionned by CID

.Aero thank you for respecting the topic and next time be aware that ATPL is Airline Transport Pilot License " AIRLINE TRANSPORT " so if their are no large transport aircrafts there is a prob !!:D

goneeast

7th Oct 2008, 17:15

Yes, thread drift ,

mafemukh earlier on in this thread ellicited (in politico spin talk) to the real problems in the company. And I quote

" I reached a stage where there were too many differences in vision and perceptions to continue. "

In other words .. the CEO did not, and possibly will not, agree that he is WRONG, against the best advice of serious, experienced professionals who work with him.

Mafemukh.. not the first time my friend.

The students who dismissed other staff who left(for many reasons), in the recent past by being disrespectful on this forum should hang their heads in shame. You had neither the experience or indeed intelligence to make your assumptions.

The Chickens are coming home to roost, if "company men" are leaving, its looking bad.

gilderoy lockhart

7th Oct 2008, 18:43

Devil Pilot,

the fact that it is reported that 2 pilots were questioned about flying in forbidden areas, possibly brings in to question the flying supervision and briefing given by the Ayla Flight School.

devil_pilot

7th Oct 2008, 23:51

OK guyz what are the solutions and advices that you could give to our cadets !!!:ouch:

gilderoy lockhart

8th Oct 2008, 04:08

Devil Pilot,

Two options really;

1. Talk to the Management at Ayla as a student body, listing your grievances and demanding improvements.

2. Look at the financial implications of leaving. Talk to Gulf Air / Bahrain Air / BDB about other acceptable training options.

devil_pilot

8th Oct 2008, 06:19

gilderoy lockhart,

Thank you mate ,

But when you have a management that always says " yes great idea DONE let's do it " but nothing happens...Meeting and Meeting all the time same ****

Anyway, Aylas management will be in Bahrain to meet GF and BDB :8:8:8

Mr. Aviation

8th Oct 2008, 07:11

Guys,
Get ready for the show, as I’ve heard Marwan is coming to Bahrain this coming Saturday to meet with BDB & GF.AIR, guess with whom…??? With Mark Murphy!!!!!!!!
He wants to cover himself by asking Mark Murphy to come over…no need to do that Marwan… probably you just about to wake up…
BDB, GF.AIR and even Bahrain Air are aware about all of the situation at Ayla…
Mark, you are a gentle & I do respect you
Good luck…

.Aero

8th Oct 2008, 08:40

Anyway, Aylas management will be in Bahrain to meet GF and BDBWhy? What on earth is that going to solve? The problems at Ayla are self-induced. Shouldn't they be focusing on their current customers?, Their self sponsored cadets who have paid $80,000+ for a service their failing to deliver professionally, and on time?

Maybe it's time to get out your training agreement out (if they even bothered to produce one) and make sure they are delivering on their promises!

I think what gilderoy lockhart suggested would be the best way forward. If you've not already formed a student body, do so today. If you do consider jumping ship, make sure all your ground school hours and flight time, dual or otherwise have been documented in personal logbooks. You might be able to have these credited at FTOs elsewhere if you decide to move.

devil_pilot

8th Oct 2008, 15:01

.Aero thank you for your advice !!!

What would you do ?

gilderoy lockhart

8th Oct 2008, 16:08

One guy who could sort this out is the previous COO of Ayla and AFT MM. If the present CEO would step back and let him come in and address the problems, things would be much better!

I haven't met anyone who has a bad word for him!

spacepodlife

8th Oct 2008, 16:44

next time be aware that ATPL is Airline Transport Pilot License " AIRLINE TRANSPORT " so if their are no large transport aircrafts there is a prob !!First of all the A in ATPL stands for AIR and not AIRLINE and second I am an ATPL pilot, I have flown for an airline, doing what would be called "part 121" in the US or "RPT" in Australia and the aircraft (not aircrafts) I used were not that big... actually there is an airline in the US using single engine piston airplanes.

Hmmm... maybe the "prob" is when somobody wants to give a lecture without knowing the subject

goneeast

8th Oct 2008, 17:14

Quite correct,

And there is no letter S in the word "licence" .

:\

mafemukh

8th Oct 2008, 17:16

Hey Mr. Aviation,
1. I am no longer an Ayla employee.
2. I am not going to Bahrain with Marwan to meet anyone.
Mark

gilderoy lockhart

8th Oct 2008, 17:26

Hi Mafemukh,

maybe the other MM then!

klubman

8th Oct 2008, 17:30

Hi Mafemukh

Sorry to hear what happened. Take care - enjoy the Harley!:ok:

Mr. Aviation

8th Oct 2008, 18:39

hey you Mafemukh,

1) i said as I HAVE HEARD....
2) Its much much better if your not going with him...and am hoping NOT
3) BDB & GF.Air, they are aware of everything and they got copies of marwan's email's which was sent to the cadets as well...

4) Mark, everybody at Ayla knew that u was the best including my self..and you have your name and reputation in GCC because of thus students, please do not destroy it by going and stand with someone u already know that his WRONG...
you have tried with im,head of training tried as well, never worked...
he is ready to listen to thus 2 sisters which they have 0 knowledge in the Aviation and Ignore the experience once

Mark, Am sorry if i said something was wrong, but this is Pprune mate...a minute u hear somthing, the next minutes you will be reading it at this web site..

sorry once again..

goneeast

8th Oct 2008, 19:53

Blimey ,

Are you a politician? I have not seen this level of sycophancy since Blair and Mandleson "hit it off"

Calm down dear :eek:

A90A3192021

8th Oct 2008, 22:12

Goneeast, the man is free to say whatever he wants and he is 100% right ... :cool: no need to give political examples as a comparison ...

Now please, lets hear more Mr Aviation!!

tbavprof

9th Oct 2008, 05:39

goneeast

And there is no letter S in the word "licence" .

And there's no letter U in color, and no extraneous ME in program.:E

goneeast

9th Oct 2008, 07:08

Yes, he is certainly entitled t say what he wants, doesnt mean that it sounds any the less like @rse kissing though. Personally, I'm a fan of Klubman, cos he makes a smashing shepards pie.

Back to the point though, Does anyone know the actual purpose of the meeting between the CEO and others in Bahrain? He always seems to be there anyway, so is this meeting any different?

It seems like a few schools are finding funding hard to come by at the moment, so if you do intend bailing out, keep your ears open.

EHBH

9th Oct 2008, 08:23

Finlay Mr. Marwan, now you will be questioned and you have to answer truly about everything, and be careful about your answers cause GF and BDB have evidences and proves, hard and soft copies of everything,

Bahrain will stop sending new cadet to Ayla, and this issue will be raised to Oman Air soon too.

Remember Marwan, RESPECT is important, so always respect your customers, otherwise shutdown your business.

I know that you are reading this Marwan, as Mark said earlier that he does not care about pprune and he consider it as trash, but he started posting threads too.

It's really funny and unprofessional, how come some inexperienced and impolite people ended managing a flight school.

Briefly, Ayla is not a good place to train pilots.

.Aero

9th Oct 2008, 09:49

I think it's time to put all this bickering to bed. Any decent aviator will factor in contingencies and plan for the very worst of scenarios. I believe the same can be said for one's career goals/ambitions. There are no guarantees made in this game - It's simply a big balancing act and all you can do is make personal decisions to reduce the risk of outcomes working against your favour.

Nobody knows if Ayla is going to deliver on it's promises, on time, or deliver at all! We all know that their self inflicted "challenges" were not 'Acts of God'.
I don't think it will do anyone any harm to look at your options of continuing flight training elsewhere just in case things go belly up with Ayla. You'll be in a better position with a plan in place to act upon. Employees do it all the time!

FTOs carry no immunities or exemptions - They aren't charities or CSOs. Some sink, others float. Around 26 airlines have gone bust this year alone! Can you imagine how saturated the pilot supply pool is at the moment?

Something to think about.

EHBH

9th Oct 2008, 09:50

Best Pilot, Devil, instead of complaining and droping tears here, you should go and talk to Gulf Air, and the Bank, i think you are matured enough to do this.
I beleive Delta and Charile course have done this, already.

devil_pilot

9th Oct 2008, 10:08

I would like to draw the attention of everyone that ayla now is charging 100 000 $$$ for the :mad: course

AQABA is :mad:
THE AREA TO FLY IS :mad:
EVERYTHING IS :mad:

Striker54

9th Oct 2008, 11:13

Unfortunate for us, we are all bound by training agreements with Gulf Air.

I've only got one question. What made GF go ahead and approve Ayla? MPL program? What?? seriously, WHAT?

How I wish I was in Florida now, chilling by the beach and see a color other than grey and buildings that are taller than 3 stories.

The moment of truth is on Sunday, we'll all have to wait and see and manage our future...we should have managed it a long time ago, **** happens BIG TIME.

Good luck to all of you!

Gulf Flyer

9th Oct 2008, 13:04

I've read with interest these Threads about Ayla Aviation Academy, 3 things have got to happen:

1. The CEO has to go.

2. The CEO has to go.

3. The CEO has to go.

Whether this Company is taken over, or ceases to trade is neither here nor there - the point is it cannot sustain itself as a viable company under its present CEO.Take legal action, as appropriate, to force change - you each have a 'contract' with the Academy; if the Company has a good working model - it will survive.

Not a very good introduction to all those budding aviators who have invested time and money to date - surely there are enough interested parties to trigger a management buyout? The alternative is to shut this place down - for good.

GF

goneeast

9th Oct 2008, 13:35

Well said .Aero :D

Good luck to the rest of you, and like Aero says, THINK. And then act in your best interests. But don't be influenced by false information, wherever it may come from.

devil_pilot

9th Oct 2008, 15:06

Striker54 ,

Which course are u ?

Are u planning to leave the :mad: ?

Best Regards

devil_pilot

11th Oct 2008, 17:16

:8 Cool Senior Captain :8

LLLL

12th Oct 2008, 04:46

Keep Dreaming,
Nice advice but who said that Ayla cadets are taking leave for months??!
The thing is Ayla are not professional enough to schedule there cadets for flying....
they do have a problems, many students, with no capacity in aircrafts... as easy as that…the blame will not go to Ayla only, even GF, once they have signed or they have approved Ayla with BDB, they should set with the academy (AYLA) and clear things up, example: if the academy fail to graduate the student on time, they must pay a penalty or to outsource another academy and finish the cadets on time and on the academy’s expense.
That would be much better than set with a Jordanian ppl which they are really stupid in solving problems… with all my respect not all of them but he know himself…
Dear Ayla students try to find for your self another academy which they are well known in aviation industry, not same as Ayla...because there will be no use talking to the CEO... as Mr.Aviation said b4 and I do agree with him, Marwan is sleeping..:ugh:

AIM HI

12th Oct 2008, 05:26

What the H:mad:L Is SNR Captain?not senior for sure, dos,t sound so:*

A90A3192021

13th Oct 2008, 01:27

I'm not a racist and will never be, but waking up in Aqaba and being treated very badly for no reason by everyone, the academy (the damn bus is never on time) then the flight school, the examiner does what he 'feels like' then going off to the wonderful downtown for the taxis to lie to u and the stores to rob you. This isn't a place to live, kids are on the street 24/7, not many people are educated, and its just sad seeing this. There's only so much a person can take with a smile :rolleyes: then off to sitting at home because there's nothing else to do.. just a wonderful feeling...

About the meeting today, he tried to blame the 5 month delay on weather and the students ... then went on and did the usual lying to the newcomers.. negative points were all that I absorbed, the ceo got mad and cursed at his students and their parents, then going on to tell them that if they don't like it then to pack up and leave.

Take care and god bless:sad:

gilderoy lockhart

13th Oct 2008, 03:40

"the ceo got mad and cursed at his students and their parents, then going on to tell them that if they don't like it then to pack up and leave"

Perhaps not the best way to treat your paying customers!

Mr. Aviation

13th Oct 2008, 03:55

A90A3192021, and the students will leave wait and watch..
and buttom line, he failed to do his part..

god will put you in hill m.attallah

Ayla 2020

13th Oct 2008, 10:50

All these problems are comming from AYLA CEO's ONLY OMG , is he that nightmare for his students & staff as well.

Nobody can take action , or make an essential change to let all those people sleep and live peacefully .

I am interesting in this thread , becuase I have friend he is willing to study at Ayla, but i think he will never do after reading this.

P.S
there is a rumer says the HOT we come back to work Ayla next month , any idea.

God Bless you all ( Cadets & Staff)

dubble_dubble

13th Oct 2008, 23:07

GF should just simply approve Horizon Aviation Academy in Al-Ain, UAE.

EGGW

14th Oct 2008, 10:47

Please let the debate continue, but please no names or such like. Carry on....

EGGW

AIM HI

14th Oct 2008, 11:24

(fight for your right...fu@@@@@http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif all those jordainian.......... )Keep dreaming ,I have an Advise for you (keep dreaming).
The poor students are leaving a nightmare to abigger one if they are going to be FOs with such snr captain:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{

EHBH

14th Oct 2008, 12:19

Result of Marwan's( AYLA CEO )meeting with Parents, Gulfair and BDB in Bahrain:

18 Cadets made their decision to leave the Academy.

10 Cadets from Course Delta,
5 Cadets from course Echo, 3 already left
3 Cadets from Course Fox,

And unknown number of Flight instructors handed their resignation letter to the management before being fired.

.Aero

14th Oct 2008, 12:51

The Saturday meeting that took place in Bahrain has come and gone. Has there been any positive news, feedback, or explanations offered to the students by the flight school?

Take legal action, as appropriate, to force change - you each have a 'contract' with the AcademyIt would eventually come to that if things aren't sorted out. At the end of the day, your a customer to the flight school & nothing else. Gulf Air have very little to do with this relationship. If you've taken a loan out from BDB you are also a customer of BDB. The agreement between Gulf Air and the students isn't worth the poorly photocopied paper it's written on.

The most important document is your training agreement (if one even exists) between you the student (the Customer), and Ayla (the Company). Don't forget, this is a commercial company not a government entity and you are, to some extent, covered by some of Jordan's consumer protection legislation.

There's allot of money at play here. $80,000 per student, and if they've got 100 self sponsored cadets, that equates to $8 million dollars! Where's all that money going?

.Aero

14th Oct 2008, 12:59

EHBH,

Just saw your post. Thanks for the update.

keep_dreaming

14th Oct 2008, 13:35

hey AERO......why you are so arrogant!!!.....are you part of ayla or friend of CEO........i do not know why my previous post has been removed...any how i will write it again without mentioning the names.

Mr ayla CEO , i heard the news regarding your meeting in bahrain....just for your sake....busines without repetition will not exist, unless it is coming from haram, which are all your money in fact.

Hey CEO...we with BDB are watching you so closely now....already the replacement colleague has been located...of course not in fantastic jordan.....and they willing to take all the cadet, with cheaper price and of course a higher license standard.....so either behave or lose...or let us say we will teach you a listen...

boys pls make up your mind and leave this s@@@@@@:mad: place....SNR CAPTAIN ......EX MANAGMENT......but still a big boss:ok:either you like or not.......:ugh:

Mow

14th Oct 2008, 19:36

If you are EX management, then no wonder GF is loosing :ugh:

.Aero

14th Oct 2008, 22:15

are you part of ayla or friend of CEOAbsolutely not. If you have a look at my previous posts on this thread, you'll quickly come to the conclusion that I'm no fan of the flight school in question.

i do not know why my previous post has been removedI suspect the forum moderates on here deleted your post because it was aggressive, abusive, contained foul language, or it might have contained names of individuals.

By all means disagree with people, share your disappointment and discontent, but do so respectfully.

All the best,

.Aero

17th Oct 2008, 17:12

Most of the approval work was done by the AFT appointee'sAccording to the official news section (http://www.aylaaviation.com/pr.html) of Ayla's website, they claim to have gained formal approval from Gulf Air and Bahrain's CAA in July 2008.

If I call up Gulf Air and the Bahrain CAA on Sunday, will they both be able to confirm this for me?

EHBH

17th Oct 2008, 22:46

Aero,

Do you know anything about Marketing?

Ayla is pretending having GF approval since JAN 08 but it's still not approved and it should not be, you call up GF now and ask them.

And regarding Bahrain CAA, since Ayla is in ICAO license issuing country it will be automatically approved but what pilots cares about is the approval of Airliners I believe.

mafemukh

18th Oct 2008, 05:36

Hi Aero/EHBH,

Ayla is GF approved.
I did most of the work - the gap analysis between the CARC (Jordan) CPL/IR and the ANTR (Bahrain) ATP(A), and the production of the manuals - operations and training. The syllabus at Ayla was accepted by GF as being equivalent to the ANTR's (Bahrain CAA's regulations) such that GF could propose, as they did, that a Jordanian CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge obtained at Ayla could be converted into a Bahraini CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge (the so-called Frozen ATPL).

You are half right about ICAO licenses EHBH: article 33 of the International Convention on Civil Aviation (the Chicago Convention) requires that all Contracting States should recognise each other's licenses, certificates and ratings. However, article 1 allows each Contracting State to be sovereign in its own airspace. Article 1 is deemed supreme such that, and in practice, each State need only recognise each other's licenses as equivalent to a PPL. Therefore, if a Bahraini national asks the Bahrain CAA to convert a Jordanian CPL/IR to a Bahraini licence, the Bahrain CAA are perfectly within their rights to issue only a PPL, and that after taking some local requirements, usually air law/human factors exams.

In Ayla's case, as I mention above, the academy needed GF to approach BCAA for approval that Ayla's product met the ANTR's. This was accepted and approved in July - I was in Bahrain, with GF's training department, at the time.

In conclusion, Ayla is (or at least was, I have been away for 1 month) BCAA approved for the issuance of the BCAA "Frozen" ATPL. Ayla is (or at least was) an approved GF training provider.

I hope this clarifies the situation.

.Aero

18th Oct 2008, 08:11

Do you know anything about Marketing?

I do know it breaks commercial laws left, right, and centre when you make false or inaccurate claims to mislead and misinform your customers. It can also have far reaching legal ramifications when you name-drop foreign government bodies in an attempt to add non-earned value to your service as might be the case here. Not the sort of business I'd ever associate with - but then again, Jordanian enterprises have never been the high watermark for ethical & transparent business conduct.

If formal approvals originated from Gulf Air and BCAA, they are naturally the most authoratative source to confirm this. I shall call them up tomorrow to ask. The three possible answers I'll get are:

- Yes they've been approved by us
- I'm sorry I can't comment
- No, they've not been approved yet

EHBH

18th Oct 2008, 09:39

Mark,

I think you’re absolutely unaware of Ayla's situation after many cadets -around 17- decided to leave (left) the academy and made a big issue concerning Ayla in Gulf air and Bahrain Bank. Ayla’s CEO was brought up to GF and BDB and he was questioned about everything, now GF is reviewing the approval again (call them UP).

FYI, Ayla has been approved by GF because it was the only preferred place for new Bahraini comers by BDB, but now BDB has Blacklisted Ayla, and GF started auditing new place.

FYI, Ayla’s next students joining date will be in FEB 09, instead of NOV 08, and they might delay it more, since no enough students applied for them after what happened.

EHBH

18th Oct 2008, 09:45

Aero,
We don’t have anything with Ayla, and we wish them all the luck.
All what should be provided and given are: a transparent marketing policy and a good and an ethical treatment to students and staff.

mafemukh

18th Oct 2008, 10:34

You are right EHBH, I am not aware of the results of the last month. However, I want you and Aero to be aware that the GF/BCAA approvals were gained honourably and through meeting the requirements for GF. In other words, there was no wasta or backyard dealing. We met the requirements because, at the time and with the team we had in place, we could deliver the high standard of training the GF process demanded.
So, to ensure this thread is absolutely accurate:
Jan 08 - GF approval (though nothing on paper) for Bridge Courses, ie. ATPL knowledge for those individuals who were already CPL/IR from any Contracting State;
Jul 08 - GF/BCAA approval for the ab initio CPL/IR/ATPL knowledge course.

gilderoy lockhart

18th Oct 2008, 11:09

EHBH,
Why did these 17 students choose to leave and why has Ayla been balcklisted by the BDB. What has gone wrong?

Sultan85

18th Oct 2008, 17:22

gilderoy lockhartEHBH,
Why did these 17 students choose to leave and why has Ayla been balcklisted by the BDB. What has gone wrong?

NO,,,,,

Ayla is not blacklisted by BDB, my frind was in BDB today for his contract.

Mr. Aviation

18th Oct 2008, 19:00

guyzzzzzz,

listen carefully, i dont recommand anyone to come and study at Ayla...
and for you whos telling that ur freind was there to sign his contract with Ayla, why didnt he asked BDB about Ayla....they will give you the full details about thus cadets which they have already left..
Mark,
am sorry but what all you have did at Ayla, the CEO has destroy it already....
sorry to say that, but i think you already know whats going on...!!!

Chuck Y

18th Oct 2008, 22:36

Whatever you guys do make sure you go to a Gulf Air certified school-that's if you want to join us, since there are plenty of Bahrainis with licenses but the a**holes in recruiting are after bringing in their people so they look for any excuse.

AIM HI

19th Oct 2008, 11:02

Mafemukh
You said: there was no wasta or backyard dealing .you must have been in the Backyardwhen the WASTA Was receiving his mony.

AIM HI

22nd Oct 2008, 08:26

Finally CARC is coming to check if it was true that some Instructors are with no CGI(Ground Instructor) and some others with expired medical,Any news:ok:

.Aero

22nd Oct 2008, 12:22

Having spoken to BDB & BCAA here were their responses.

BDB: They said they don't have a system of approving any flight schools. When clients approach them for a flight training loan, they are free to select any flight training organization and they don't bias the decision of the student.

BCAA: They said they are aware of a flight school in Jordan named Ayla, but the guy added that there is no formal approval process from their end. They don't even have a list of approved schools.

The only organization that I havent been able to get in touch with is Gulf Air. I'll try again tomorrow and hopefully someone will pickup.

gilderoy lockhart

22nd Oct 2008, 12:39

AIm Hi; Have some of the Ayla cadets moved to RJ Academy? Are RJ approved by Gulf Air?

AIM HI

23rd Oct 2008, 06:06

The news at Amman is that 20 students are joining Meadle East Academy ,Few students (may be 5) joining RJAA.
MEA Is approved long time ago.donno about RJAA, BUT They have somebody visiting GA This week. Every body is welcome to Amman.

Radar Contact

23rd Oct 2008, 15:26

I heard that GF managment will visit MEA and give them guaranteed job, is it true?

gilderoy lockhart

23rd Oct 2008, 19:03

Has the lady pilot, ex Chief Instructor of Ayla moved back to MEA. Wherever she goes I am sure a number of students/Instructors will follow!

Mr. Aviation

23rd Oct 2008, 23:47

gilderoy lockhartHas the lady pilot, ex Chief Instructor of Ayla moved back to MEA. Wherever she goes I am sure a number of students/Instructors will follow!

i guess yes, because she is professional...

mafemukh

24th Oct 2008, 08:52

Salaam Alaykom Aim Hi,
I hope all is well with you and my friends at RJAA.
I am sorry to contradict you but MEA is NOT currently a GF-approved academy as audited/approved by the GF Training Department. The reason is quite simple: In order for MEA to meet the new BCAA requirements, which have been lifted almost in their entirety from the JAA, it must show that it offers either the ATP(A) or MPL(A) course.

The ATP(A) course is the integrated course all the way through CPL/MEIR/ATPL knowledge/MCC;
The MPL(A) course is for the multicrew pilot license; no-one in Jordan is (or at least was when I left 6 weeks ago) offering that license.The only way for MEA to meet these statutory requirements, they must show that they teach to the equivalent of the elements of the ATP(A), which is what Ayla did - more specifically, I did! GF provide a top level team (it was 2 senior management training captains) to audit against these requirements. The elements of the ATP(A) are:

CPL (Airplanes)
Multiengine Instrument Rating (Airplanes)
JAA ATPL theoretical knowledge
MCCThe CARC CPL/MEIR is basically the equivalent of the JAA CPL/MEIR - this is not too difficult to adjust. In addition, GF can do the MCC as part of their induction. The bit left and the most difficult bit is the JAA ATPL theoretical knowledge. MEA would have to show that its course meets the learning objectives as stipulated by the JAA.
As far as I am aware, MEA has not done this - I suspect they do not have the materials to do so. However, as one who has done it, should MEA wish to pursue GF approval, I would be happy to work with them to this aim - I, of course, do have the materials. In addition, there is another requirement, not obvious from the licensing documentation, but that's my secret and, of course, one may have some cards face up on the table but one doesn't show one's whole hand!!
In conclusion, unless MEA has a valid agreement with GF that pre-dates the ANTR's (the new BCAA regulations), and I do not believe they do, they are NOT GF-approved.
Finally Aim Hi, should S. wish to take the path of GF approval, I can help; you know where to find me!
Health to you and your family,
M.

gilderoy lockhart

24th Oct 2008, 10:52

Mafemukh, maybe you had a little bit of assistance from others!

mafemukh

24th Oct 2008, 11:27

To be honest, Mate, not a great deal because there wasn't a great deal to be done other than trudge through the docs, especially the various PTS and flight license reqs to complete the gap analysis.
We knew from the outset that the groundschool conformed because it had been designed that way (and if this is Mick, then it was because of your initial work) - it was only the fact that the UK system had not incorporated NPA25 and GF had no problem with that.
However, although it turned out that the there weren't that many differences between the flight reqs, it all had to be proven and documented; that's what took the time.
In addition, it was meeting the reqs for the various manuals that took a lot of time, especially when one found that changes had been made to syllabi without promulgating or even completing relevant documentation nor following through the changes in the manuals. By the time the manuals were completed, it was found they were at least 2 major syllabus revisions out-of-date; however, could the new syllabi be "cut-and-pasted" in - of course not, they hadn't been properly documented!:ugh:
In addition, it meant that technically the GF self-audit had been completed against a syllabus that was no longer in force, but hey...!
Actually, as we know, it is usually not the syllabus that steers success, it is the quality of the instructional staff... 'nuff said!!

gilderoy lockhart

24th Oct 2008, 11:38

Hi Maf, just thinking of some of the work done by the QM who succeeded you, in producing the TM!

mafemukh

24th Oct 2008, 11:52

Unfortunately, not much I could use there, the SOPs had also changed markedly - it was a nightmare! :{

Ayla 2020

24th Oct 2008, 21:06

"Finally Aim Hi, should S. wish to take the path of GF approval, I can help; you know where to find me"

Hey MafeMukh

Are you Jobless now? are you looking for a Job at MEA ? are you trying to get a Job offer from them ? what will AYLA CEO's Feedback if he reads your posts on this matter ?

mafemukh

25th Oct 2008, 05:23

Hi Ayla 2020,

In the spirit of openness, I will answer your questions, although some may deem them personal.

I am an Independent Contractor, which means that I am free to contract out my services to whomsoever I wish; I am under no obligation to any particular company. Should MEA/RJAA or any pilot school worldwide wish to contract me to help them obtain GF approval then I am perfectly free to accept/reject such a contract as I see fit.

As for the Ayla CEO's feedback, he is as entitled to his opinion of me and my talents as I am of him and his.

I hope this answers your questions.

Ayla 2020

25th Oct 2008, 06:29

Yes it did.

Thank you

AIM HI

25th Oct 2008, 06:46

Goodmoorning Every Body
Reading PPRUNE about this Academy from day one , I have abig question:
WHO WAS BEHIND THE COLLAPSE OF THE BIG THING (if it was)?IF THERE IS Acollapse;)

The CEO
The LADY
The Instructors
The stu..........

Ayla 2020

25th Oct 2008, 07:35

it started with the lady's leaving , then the students have realized that this big show is nothing when it comes to the high standards & top quality.

So 3 students from course Echo had decided to leave , following by 10 students from course Delta . the rest of the students are thinking to leave so .

You can see all the good people , like HOT, Quality Manager , 3 of the best instructors had left.
Finally , it is better to the CEO to shut this business down , in order not to bring the shame to him or his Family.

AIM HI

25th Oct 2008, 08:01

Thanks AYLA 2020 ,My Question was who not when:ugh:
At the bigining every body was blaming the lady for her late program, then the CEO for his relation with the lady then abig fight between Expats and locals befor the Refree ended the show.

mafemukh

25th Oct 2008, 11:10

Hi Aim Hi,
You are right in questioning the idea of collapse, this has not happened. What has happened, however, is a slow erosion in standards and confidence that the academy can achieve what it set out to achieve. If you have been following this thread from its inception, you will not need me to spell out who is ultimately responsible!

Ayla 2020

25th Oct 2008, 13:38

Hey Aim Hi

I dont need to say who , becuase every one knows him .

Truthful

25th Oct 2008, 19:15

I am appearing here after a long time. If you remember long time back I wrote about the per day sorties requirement of Ayla Academy thinking that they will work on it. Perhaps none of the following persons gave those posts due attention.

1. CEO
2. The Lady CFI
3. MM

We can' t blame the CEO alone for the collapse of this Academy. As I know from the insiders, this MM is a big story with just 200 Hours on Heli and 400 Hours as Canberra Navigator. He is a useless guy in USA or Europe. Trust me he can' t find a job of 2000 U$D there with his present profile and so tight competition in the field of Aviation there.

The Lady CFI is too in-experienced and young to be commented upon. She still has long way to prove herself in this field. For the time being she is fit to be a junior Flight Instructor somewhere.

For CEO every thing can be achieved through FELOOS thats why he even employs people in clear violation of ICAO and CARC regulations. He will employ a britisher who has already attained his age of super annuation with no licence. He does not care for such regulations.

SO AIM HI!
If you consider my above three sentences, you will conclude,""""WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COLLAPSE OF YET ANOTHER AVIATION ACADEMY IN ME""".
:ugh:

:D

:ooh:

Truthful

25th Oct 2008, 19:24

Lets all writers here congratulate CARC for unearthing a big fraud of people working and instructing in some aviation academies in this region. They have presently pinpointed three Britishers Instructors in Ayla Academy teaching without having any licences compulsory for imparting training in Aviation Academies.
Two out of the three instructors had already worked in Qatar and Al Fujairah without licences but the Civil Aviation Authorities there failed to catch them.
This means CARC people know how to perform their job.
Lets give them a big hand. :D:D:D

Truthful

25th Oct 2008, 19:42

You wrote, ""You are right in questioning the idea of collapse, this has not happened. What has happened, however, is a slow erosion in standards and confidence that the academy can achieve what it set out to achieve. If you have been following this thread from its inception, you will not need me to spell out who is ultimately responsible"".

You are really a mafemukh. For other readers mafemukh means a person with no brain.
Listen my dear you were getting about 150,000 U$D from the same CEO. Now please let the readers know who else in this World will pay you such a high salary? You used to travel in business class and you used to stay and eat in ***** hotels (5 STARS). Can you have such luxuries from your own pocket now? you and the Lady CFI left this Academy because you two foresaw its collapse. You had tried to earn an artificial name here in this region only through your words and not actions. Can you narrate any of your big deed here except collapsing the Ayla Academy? And Now you are blaming the CEO alone.
MAFEMUKH can you define collapse for readers? Because you say that AAA has not yet collapsed. However, even a junior aviator can say with confidence"""""""""""YES AAA HAS COLLAPSED"""""""""".
Thanx Mukhmawjood.

Ayla 2020

25th Oct 2008, 19:57

Welcome Back truthful , it is really nice to hear from you again

mafemukh

25th Oct 2008, 20:49

Ayla 2020, you may welcome Truthful's return but as one who has tried to keep this thread free from inaccuracy and vitriol, I do not! We will no doubt descend back into the BS that caused the previous thread to be removed. There are at least 5 inaccuracies in his posts and this is the one time I will react, from now on I will just ignore his sciolism.
PS. Truthfool, do not use names, it leaves you open to a lawsuit for libel.

Ayla 2020

25th Oct 2008, 21:25

Truthful
"Two out of the three instructors had already worked in Qatar and Al Fujairah without licences but the Civil Aviation Authorities there failed to catch them"

what about the 3rd one , does he has a license ?

gilderoy lockhart

26th Oct 2008, 03:23

The CEO was and is aware of the Ground Instructor Licencing requirements. Before his direct intervention, Instructors from outside Jordan who were preparing to take their GI/AGI/INST Exams at CARC, did not teach on any of the CARC approved Courses. This was described by the CEO as a "Perverse" interpretation of the rules and it seems from then on the CARC rules were open to his interpretation!

Truthful, GCAA and Qatar Licencing requirements for Ground Instructors are different than in Jordan which operates a FAA system. There is no formal issue of Licence in these countries.

goneeast

26th Oct 2008, 07:55

Gilderoy,

Yes. I was at that meeting in January, where the CEO brushed aside the CARC rules as "stupid" when told the licencing aspect. The whole point of the meeting seemed to be to try to shoe horn more paying customers (students) through the door, without increasing staffing numbers (I seem to remember that Instructor/student ratios and instructor contact hours were dismissed as "ridiculous" too)..
It was obvious at the time and caused open dissent.

It didnt matter that several guys informed him of the rules. However it was highly irregular that he chose to have that meeting (egged on by a lapdog or two), while the CGI was away on company business, whereas if he had waited a mere 24 hours, he would have received the facts and direct references to the rules first hand. However, the shoot the messanger mentality was running rife.

Chickens, roost..home (rearrange as required). It would be funny if it wasnt tragic and affects peoples lives and careers. Ill never understand what drives the guy. Surely he wants the place to succeed? perhaps he's just a bit Upton Park. ( 2 Stops short of Barking :})

AIM HI

26th Oct 2008, 08:20

(Instructor/student ratio)
What is the ratio today :confused: with that nomber of studets left/leaving?
Are their still CFIs?

mafemukh

26th Oct 2008, 10:18

Thanks goneeast, you have made my whole day!!!!!:ok:

"just a bit Upton Park. ( 2 Stops short of Barking http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif)"

PS. Have you seen the "You know you have been in the Middle East too long when..." thread? It is hilarious!

AIM HI

26th Oct 2008, 10:44

(Can you narrate any of your big deed here except collapsing the Ayla Academy?)
You are the 1st one to give the answer to my question directly,any others?

Truthful

26th Oct 2008, 11:11

OK i am wrong and you are right but please tell the readers the causes of the fall of AYLA ACADEMY? AFTER ALL PUTTING THE WHOLE BLAME ON CEO is not justified because he was paying you a lot of money for the improvement of his Academy. What all did you do in this regards? Please enlighten us.

Truthful

26th Oct 2008, 11:17

Now all those responsible for the crisis must boldly accept their fault and I PRAY THAT THIS ACADEMY MAY RECOVER FROM THE PRESNT CRISES.

klubman

26th Oct 2008, 11:23

The main reason for the collapse of Ayla is typified by the January meeting. Despite plenty of freely offered advice and help, the CEO chose to ignore those that he had brought in to improve the academy.

'You can lead a horse to water .........'

In addition, the meeting was called for one reason, and then something entirely different was 'discussed' by the CEO. Clearly, he had his own agenda and wasn't going to let a few facts or regulations get in the way!:ugh:

'What's a boy to do?........'

gilderoy lockhart

26th Oct 2008, 11:36

Truthful,

Advice can be ignored, no matter how much an individual expert is paid for giving it! The CEO by his own admission is a Micro-Manager and as such ALL final decisions are his! There in a nut shell is Ayla's problem!

mafemukh

26th Oct 2008, 14:17

Truthful,

At the beginning of this year I was not even an Ayla employee. I had been the Quality Manager and Deputy CGI (on less than half the salary figure you suggested). The academy had had its fair share of problems before I left in December, 2007, but it was growing and in pretty good shape; certainly, it was audited throughout 2007 to JAA FTO standards and passed easily. Then in Feb, 2008, the trouble really started!

I was paid (although not the figure you suggested, nor with the additional benefits you mentioned - I lived in the Rae'd Suites with the Oman Air students, hardly 5-star!), and brought back from Atlantic Flight Training in England where I was just settling in as COO, a reasonably highly paid job, to deal with some essential projects:

Stabilize the Ground School after the (enforced) departure of the founding CGI, a poor decision that started the rot (3 very fine ex-pat GI's followed shortly after), and until a replacement could be found.
The GF Approval, especially writing the Ops and Training Manuals after the guy tasked with the job (my replacement as Quality Manager) departed.
The MPL syllabusThe result was that I spent most of this time away from Ayla, or hidden away in my office working on these documents, or on the road dealing with our clients. I had to be paid extra, of course, to have me leave the job at AFT where I could go home every weekend, and return to AQB, for what I thought was only to be a short period!

I was not directly responsible for running the training system at Ayla until I became Head of Training, which was 2 days before I quit, and that all happened when I was in Michigan = I did not spend 1 second at Aqaba as HOT.

In truth, I would have loved the opportunity to turn AAA around, I have a lot of emotional attachment to it, and especially to the fine groups of young people we attracted to the school; however, and without pointing the finger directly, you will get a flavor of the conditions under which we operated by reading and understanding the opinions of my former colleagues contained in the posts before this one. In fact, I offered to return as HOT to try to turn the academy around but my offer was declined, albeit politely, it must be said.

Those are the facts, habibe, you will find this thread full of regretful instructors and department managers who would have loved the opportunity to help AAA realize its true potential - it could have been the best in the region, at least! However...

mafemukh

26th Oct 2008, 14:31

Aim Hi,
I understand your desire for plain speaking but you must remember that even by using a nickname it does not exempt you from the international libel laws. Full names MUST NOT be used, I believe I know the true identities of Gilderoy, goneeast, Klubman and Truthful; however, I will not name them nor will I point the finger directly at any individual. All I can do is present what I believe to be the facts. It is your job to judge fact from fiction and who, what and when.

AIM HI

27th Oct 2008, 05:24

The Kids are fed up with the bigboys fight(s)
They need our advice now, lets pray for them and give them our(not everybody) advises.

goneeast

27th Oct 2008, 07:52

I'll think you will find that the big boys are not fighting. We worked hard to convince the CEO the error of his ways and failed. Because he would not listen..end of. When you are inputting good advice and continue to be ignored, you leave, that is exactly what happened..There was no ex-pat versus local agenda. No "I am leaving because I want more money". No tensions between instructors that I am aware of.
In fact the only instructor that left because of problems with locals did so because of high levels of racial abuse (In town, not at work). I was firmly able to look after myself on that front (if you know what i mean :E).

Im pretty sure that many posters on here would have stayed gladly if they were listened to..there were plenty of meetings, but why bother with meetings if you are not going to bother listening to your management/staff? We all got on very well thank you!

As for advice to the students, firstly, good luck. You need to formulate a plan of action, you need to speak to the CEO directly. Be prepared for him to offer you platitudes and he will say what you want to hear. But stay strong and demand results.. You are paying for this after all. There is no point in moaning on here if you are not airing your concerns to the CEO (And NOT to student welfare/instructors/other students or the teaboy)...the CEO is a micro manager and he is the ONLY one to talk to..as a student body.
Do it sooner rather than later, but have FACTS to hand to challenge him with.

mafemukh

27th Oct 2008, 11:00

Aim Hi,
Yep, goneeast has got it about right. I enjoyed my time with my instructor colleagues at Ayla, and the students were/still are fab! And let's not forget the -
Administrators
N. was a wonderful HR person, highly respected by instructors and students alike - she was fired by text message!
V. was doing a great job in groundschool, again admired and respected by instructors and students, balancing her work life with that of being a new mother - she was hounded out!
There is a "cult of personality" issue at Ayla; when you surround yourself with pretty little things that tell you how wonderful you are, you will probably believe them after a while.
Advice
I have already been in contact with students privately to offer them advice based upon their particular stage in training. I am still happy to do so and they can email me at [email protected]
For those members of AAA management who monitor this thread, my advice is unbiased and objective, offering options and a recommendation based only upon my experience in this industry.

AIM HI

27th Oct 2008, 12:22

(Two out of the three instructors had already worked in Qatar and Al Fujairah)
Truthful Do you mean they are traviling to the collapsed Academies,or to collapse Academies??????????????????????????

klubman

27th Oct 2008, 12:39

Let's be clear about this.

As instructors we didn't travel thousands of miles from our homes and families with the intention of destroying that which paid our salaries (which, incidentally, were OK but not fabulously high).

Speaking personally, and I think I speak for the others as well, I took the position because it was an opportunity to do what I love after a long career in the military. It was also an opportunity to travel, meet new people, experience different cultures, etc.

It was with great regret that I left Aqaba. I enjoyed the company of fellow instructors, enjoyed teaching the students, and generally felt that (nearly) everyone got along together.

But, and its a big but, there were aspects of AAA that made me feel insecure and, after the enforced departure of the CGI, I felt that I was next to get the chop.

So, No, we didn't set out to destroy AAA. It managed that by him/itself.

gilderoy lockhart

27th Oct 2008, 13:08

Just for the record the facts of my departure are as follows;

I requested a meeting with the CEO after the January meeting (held in my abscence), after complaints about what had happened from my Instructors. After a frustrating discussion I asked the CEO if he had confidence in my decision making, he said he did not and I informed him then I could not carry on as CGI.

I was subsequently offered a role in MPL development (deemed a promotion) but like Klubman I felt that there was no security at Ayla with the Owner/CEO in charge. I tendered my resignation after being offered employment by 2 companies in the UAE.

I take no pleasure in seeing a school that I put a huge amount of effort into failing. I feel especially sad for the students who were promised quality training and have not received it!

Regards,

Mick

.Aero

27th Oct 2008, 15:21

Unhappy students + unhappy staff = a wobly stage that might just collapse.

I truly believe allot of self-sponsored students have been taken for a ride here and haven't gotten their money's worth, especially now as the pound has slipped against the dollar - your Bahraini dinar now buys you allot more in the UK and Europe.

JAA Integrated fATPL courses in the UK now cost a little more than what Ayla charges, and if the pound slips any more, they will continue to get cheaper. Is it true Ayla have actually increased their fees?????

Sabena Flight Academy - 37,000 Dinars
Oxford Aviation Academy - 38,000 Dinars
Cabair - 36,000 Dinars

The best advice is to probably take your money elsewhere, and leave whilst you can.

gilderoy lockhart

27th Oct 2008, 15:51

Why not as a student ask to transfer to AFT in the UK, the sister school of Ayla. It's JAA approved, well run, has great instructors and you'll get MCC. The cost at the current exchange rate is almost the same as a CARC CPL/IR.

I think your chances of employment in the middle east would be better with a JAA Frozen ATPL Licence and will be recognised by Gulf Air and Bahrain authority!

AIM HI

28th Oct 2008, 06:03

Klubman
(So, No, we didn't set out to destroy AAA. It managed that by him/itself. )
I Was wondering What/Who was in common with the collapsed /collapsing Academies in Qatar, UAE AND Jordan?

goneeast

28th Oct 2008, 08:33

A pillock in the top job? :E

klubman

28th Oct 2008, 11:15

As far as I know it's only the academy in Aqaba that's having problems. The others you mention are doing OK (certainly nothing wrong in Qatar).

The only academy that's attracting so much chat on this forum is AAA. 'nuff said!

mafemukh

28th Oct 2008, 12:00

Hi Aim Hi,
How about this as the common thread to poor performance? I can think of at least 3 academies in the Middle East where this applies:

"The academy has as its head an arrogant, ignorant, so-called businessman who does not listen to the experts he employs but continues on his own track for reasons other than those useful to the student population."

aka "pillock" goneeast?

Again, for reasons of libel, I will not point to particular academies nor name names. Indeed, it is not confined to this part of the world but has been a pretty general theme in many of the academies for which I have worked or about which I am well informed.

It seemes to be applicable to many airlines as well!

AIM HI

29th Oct 2008, 05:39

Goodday Femukh.
SAFETY: Learn from the mistakes of others;you 'll not live long to make them all yourself .
To avoid total collapse ,Find here the program of CGI for the coming week;
Sun: XZ
Mon: yx
Tue: DH
WED: GH
Thu: AW

NB. No CGI At weekends

gilderoy lockhart

29th Oct 2008, 12:22

Mafemukh,

Any idea about what Aim Hi's cryptic ramblings mean?

Oh and by the way " The three swallows fly east tonight"

.Aero

29th Oct 2008, 12:58

Any idea about what Aim Hi's cryptic ramblings mean?

Don't worry about Sir Simpleton. He possess the mental agility no larger than the size of a rabbit's dropping.

devil_pilot

29th Oct 2008, 21:29

Guyz ,

I want to say that MM was a great instructor and whatever people say he will remain one of the best

He would spend a lot of time at the academy and finish late at night without having the time to change to go for dinner.MM thank you again

We students are just tired and lost hope on this academy.

Where our money goes ????!!!! ( 7 cessnas )

And just to have a quick word regarding the ground instructors we dont give a :mad:
if they have licence or CARC approval. They taught us properly and have very good knowledge.
When u see the standards of CARC u dont even bother to think.

Guyz thank the marketing guy because he is the one who started everything by promising that ayla was JAA approved

:ok::ok:

gilderoy lockhart

30th Oct 2008, 03:46

Devil Pilot,

you are absolutely right about CARC and it's standards. Like all flight schools Ayla has to comply with it's national regulations and in the Ground Instructor issue did so, until directed otherwise by the CEO. MM as you say is one of the best and most experienced instructors around, but he went and sat the CARC exams as did I.

The salesmen you refer to has little knowledge of flight training and I'm not sure he understands what a JAA licence is or how one is obtained, he is just a salesman doing as his master says!

To all potential students from Bahrain, think about the advice from Aero, your BD goes a long way in Europe at the moment!

goneeast

30th Oct 2008, 06:12

Oh and by the way " The three swallows fly east tonight"

Would that be the African swallow, or the European?

I'll get me coconuts.

Confused Aim HI ? Good, you started it :p

AIM HI

30th Oct 2008, 06:21

Devil Pilot

(We students are just tired and lost hope on this academy.)
Please Dont; what it needs is the CEO goes for along holyday,let the experts take over ,it will recover stronger than befor.

please dont read the post previous to yours(.Aero,s) so not to loose hope on the old (good) Expats, You never know they might be back oneday.

mafemukh

30th Oct 2008, 11:16

Thanks Guys for your kind words.
I can affirm that Gilderoy had issued a CARC GI License with the Advanced (AGI) Rating; he was also working on his Instrument (IGI) Rating; I have a CARC GI License with Advanced and Instrument Ratings. In other words, when we were the main instructors there (along with a Jordanian GI/AGI/IGI), we were all correctly licensed and rated.

AIM HI

1st Nov 2008, 07:37

Change we need
CARC Receive arequest from the Acadey signed by CGI(NOT APPROVED BY CARC)
CARC ask CEO Who is this man?:sad:
CEO fires GI:(

Ayla 2020

1st Nov 2008, 13:18

From the beginning every day you hear , this guy has just been hired , another got fired .

gilderoy lockhart

1st Nov 2008, 13:29

The only person who will never get fired at Ayla is the CEO, because his family owns the company, however it's the one change that could turn Ayla around.

AIM HI

2nd Nov 2008, 05:47

Why do i have the feeling we will have only female flight instructors:O
( Ihope i,m not advertising ()

klubman

2nd Nov 2008, 10:49

I received an unsolicited e-mail from the HR Manager at AAA asking if I would consider rejoining at the end of my current contract.

I politely declined!

gilderoy lockhart

2nd Nov 2008, 12:25

They should be so lucky, something about reaping and sowing! Is KS still doing that job or has she moved on to higher things?

SilveR5

2nd Nov 2008, 12:58

Hey guys...

I'm willing to join AAA soon...& while I can see too many different opinions here, I'm really so confused now & can't make my final decision!

well you know it's a lot of money & the least thing I wanna do is to waste those thousands around...!!

Is it really that terrible to be in AAA???

Is it fATPL or just CPLE/IR??

& is it JAA approved?? (since AAA is a partner of Atlantic Flight Training)

Please I need honest feedback...!

thank you..

goneeast

2nd Nov 2008, 13:13

honest feedback? in my opinion dont do it..its unstable, however..

Wait for reply from poster called mafemukh. he was there until recently and can give you a better idea..wait for his opinion.

gilderoy lockhart

2nd Nov 2008, 13:31

You really want to hear the opinion from students there, which I am not. I can definitely confirm that you don't get a JAA Licence you get a Jordanian Licence fron CARC who are an FAA based authority. Accreditation using AFT was an option that the CEO didn't persue!

.Aero

2nd Nov 2008, 18:26

Is it really that terrible to be in AAA???

Is it fATPL or just CPLE/IR??

& is it JAA approved?? (since AAA is a partner of Atlantic Flight Training)
It's not JAA approved, and it's not an integrated frozen ATPL course that they offer either.

I assume by the questions you've just asked that you've never visited the flight school, seen the facilities, met with the staff and students - nor have you had your skills or competencies assessed by them. Naturally your taking a big gamble here.. I thought that was forbidden?

What's a return flight to Aqaba going to cost you? 150-200 dinars?

Do your homework, investigate, ask lots of questions, pay them a visit, meet the staff & students, have a look at the accommodation, the lifestyle that's on offer etc, and get your skills assessed. That's generic advice that any GOOD flight school would expect you to do before hand.

You wouldn't spend 35,000 dinars on a car you've never actually seen in real life would you? A car you've never taken for a test drive?

I wouldn't suggest applying the same logic to what might potentially be a life changing decision for you, especially if it's an investment in YOUR future.

Good luck! :ok:

Red max

3rd Nov 2008, 00:53

My suggestion is to research your options , BDB and gulf air will aprove any certified school (check with them before :hmm: ) . You get charged for extra flights that you have to do , it does'nt mean your **** it's just how it is everyone has to do an extra flight once in a while for example you decide to fly and the weather turns to **** next flight your paying for above the total agreed fee which covers minimum flying hours to get your license, so if you are getting a loan think about that .

For ayla students, How many aerodromes are there in jordon for your navs?

klubman

3rd Nov 2008, 01:33

Yes, it's still KS as HR Manager (but still with PR duties, etc).

mafemukh

3rd Nov 2008, 07:04

Hi Silver,
As goneeast stated, I am the most recent departure, I think so anyway; however, my opinions are based on conditions at least 6 weeks ago.

To give you plain advice - I would not go there.

The situation is, in my opinion, too volatile to entrust a loan of that magnitude to an organization which has a history, albeit a short one, of structural deterioration and fracture. There may have been steps taken to "shore up" the foundations but I wouldn't trust those either. All it will take is another self-destructive pounding and the school will be shaken to its roots again.

According to students with whom I still have contact, the school is unable to fly the students it has already; it just does not have the resources nor the airspace to do so. Unfortunately, I have seen situations before where there have been short-cuts taken with too few resources and tragedy is the usual outcome. I am not suggesting that AAA will take these short-cuts; however, to me it seems likely, an apparently cavalier attitude towards regulations and over-confidence in one's own judgement are not conducive to treading the right path.

With the current economic climate, Silver, I would want to obtain a proper JAA license; you should be able to get a great deal with the European schools. I would look for one that completes a big portion of flight-time in the USA where the weather and gas prices are still good. The FBI background check is now fast and efficient, and no longer a major obstacle.

I hope this helps.

Gilderoy, Klubman, goneeast - isn't it noticeable that unlike the previous critical thread where students and staff were vociferous in defending AAA, especially the RJA guys, that is no longer the case. I think the silence is most eloquent!!

.Aero

3rd Nov 2008, 09:44

Silver5,

If your after a JAA licence, there's a published list of flight schools that is compiled by the UK CAA which you can download as a PDF [here] (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2854). If you train at any of those flight schools, you'll earn a JAA licence issued by the UK CAA.

klubman

3rd Nov 2008, 10:21

Couldn't agree more. The likes of 'mashreq', etc. are conspicuous by their absence.

All in all, a great shame. Could have been so good. Still not tempted to return, though!

SilveR5

3rd Nov 2008, 11:16

Red Max

Thanks for your reply...and I have reviewed every single UK CAA school and mailed plenty of them during the past month...but here is the situation:

I think Gulf Air has put us in such trouble sticking us to only those 2 Jordanian shools!

I have spoken to everybody in charge within Gulf Air...knocked the doors of many many officials there..and here is the end point : if u wanna work for Gulf Air you gotta have JAR fATPL or go to Jordan... and if you choose to go to Europe to get the JAR Ops license, then Gulf Air won't sponsor u..so it's gonna be more and more costs!!

Let's consider the generousity of BDB to finance the students..but again sticking us to jordan only.... what about UK CAA schools issueing fATPL+MCC+JOC in as short as 14 months average?? why the heck they are not approved by BDB and Gulf Air as certified training schools?!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

To mafemukh,

"The situation is, in my opinion, too volatile to entrust a loan of that magnitude to an organization which has a history, albeit a short one, of structural deterioration and fracture. There may have been steps taken to "shore up" the foundations but I wouldn't trust those either. All it will take is another self-destructive pounding and the school will be shaken to its roots again"

Well..I can see the level of frustration u've reached after AAA....but I would like to be more specific here...would u please name to me the exact problems that a student might encounter in AAA daily life??

I appreciate it...

I'm still so confused about the whole thing...but surely I wanna be there in the skies...and i'll keep on going after the "Pilot.In.Command" dream:cool:

wish me luck guys...

gilderoy lockhart

3rd Nov 2008, 13:09

Silver, as I understand it the Gulf Air sponsorship is a small amount with some standby tickets. If you get a JAA licence plus MCC you will stand a chance of employment with a lot of other carriers in the Gulf, with the Jordanian licence it's basically Gulf Air.

You will also find that there is no job guarantee with Gulf Air, even if you go to one of the Jordanian Schools, they will only take a percentage of the best students, they also have plans to start there own MPL Course with a 3rd party, and I would imagine those students will be employed before the CPL/IR BDB students in Jordan.

May be worth asking Gulf Air how far advanced there MPL Plans are! Mafemuk may be able to advise you on that as well.

.Aero

3rd Nov 2008, 13:17

Let's consider the generousity of BDB to finance the students..but again sticking us to jordan onlyIncorrect. Bahrain Development Bank, is simply that. A bank. They do not have an internal policy where you will only qualify for financial assistance providing you choose to conduct flight training in Jordan. I sat down with them and asked them about the posibilities of me training in Europe and they said they had no objections. The financial loan is risk free to them. They couldn't care less if you make it as a pilot or end up sleeping rough on the streets.

Part of the application process is that you appoint a guarantor with a sizable income (to be supplemented with financial income statements) plus they require your guarantor to issue BDB with a ridiculous amount of signed post-datedcheques (four years worth if I'm not mistaken) which they start cashing in before you even finish your flight training! Their repayment grace period was 12 months at the time. The point I'm making here is, you don't need to make a business case to them that YOU will be in a position to pay back your debt even if you dont make it as a pilot.

if you choose to go to Europe to get the JAR Ops license, then Gulf Air won't sponsor uGulf Air do not sponsor cadets, so I don't know what gave you that impression! If they do sponsor cadets, then ask to see it in writing! Are you willing to gamble on word-by-mouth nonsense that's probably incorrect? Get in touch with GF's VP of training and ask him about sponsorship & guaranteed employment. You'll find neither exist.

what about UK CAA schools issueing fATPL+MCC+JOC in as short as 14 months average?? why the heck they are not approved by BDB and Gulf Air as certified training schools?!!Gulf Air and BDB are both BUSINESSES! They are not authorities nor are they independent bodies so nobody expects them to "approve" anything! Any form of approval that is conducted by Gulf Air would simply be for internal purposes. At the semi-recent MPL forum in Jordan, GF's VP of training said himself that they have sent cadets worldwide, everywhere from California to Australia! Let me make this clear. Gulf Air's interest in Ayla was simply that of a potential partner for GF's future MPL endeavours. Whether or not that interest still exists is another question.

I think you should set your standard higher than what GF 'thinks' makes a good FTO. There is no question that a JAA licence earnt in Europe will give you allot of credability as a pilot in the Middle East and elsewhere. I've got 3 Bahraini mates, all of whom have self-sponsored their training in Europe and managed to gain employment in Bahrain & the UAE. One flies for GF, another Bahrain Air, and the third - Air Arabia in the UAE.

You can probably tell I'm not a fan of Ayla. I used to be interested in them, and was potentially going to consider giving them my business, but their representative who I had arranged to meet up with me in a hotel lobby stood me up. I never did get an appology either. Perhaps that how they do business in Jordan! On the whole, I found them unprofessional and a company I'd not want to be affiliated with as an employee or as a paying customer.

mafemukh

3rd Nov 2008, 14:50

Hi Silver,
Read my post #154 about being specific.
A current student's daily life - I don't know. Devil Pilot is a current student, hopefully he will answer your query.

I don't blame you Klubman - I made it a condition of my return that there had to be a change in decision-making authority, especially in training. In other words, there was to be no involvement in training issues by those not qualified nor experienced enough to be involved. I imagine that did not sit well!!

I don't know anything about GF and any possible MPL partner, Gilderoy; my MPL proposal for RJA was put on hold after my quarter of a century of experience was overruled through the opinions of 2 marketers and an inexperienced FI - go figure! Hence, of course, why I demanded no interference from the inexperienced and unqualified - see above.
PS. I have the greatest respect for the 3 guys involved, the 2 marketers I count as friends, the FI is up-and-coming and will be very good when she has the experience to back her talent; however, it was a very poor decision to weight their opinions as highly as they were weighted. I could at least have been asked to present my case against the objections and then AAA could now have been well on the way to reaping the benefits of a successful MPL beta test...

As far as using qualified instructors is concerned, again, I offered to return and take a course through its IR groundschool, knowing there was only 1 IGI left at AAA. I was told the CGI had it covered - goodness knows how; I hope he's not being hung out to dry, but what's new...?!:rolleyes:

gilderoy lockhart

3rd Nov 2008, 16:27

Silver

There's a thread on page 6 of this forum discussing Gulf Air and possible training partners that may be worth a read titled "Gulf Air and Oxford Aviation Academy joint venture".

SilveR5

3rd Nov 2008, 21:27

ok..I admit...you all really know many "Kitchen secrets" here!

So let me explain how could you offer me a genuine help out of all these information you own..

1) Who is the person (or just a title) I should contact in Gulf Air to know about AAA and the future of both parties together? (assuming that I will finish studying in mid of 2010, by that time I never want to look like a guy coming from the "bad history")

2) Hypothetically, if I'm the "exemplar student" for pilot training at a school like AAA with all what it has of the good (if there are any according to your opinions!) and the bad...how would u estimate the outcome of such combination?

3) Is there any news or "insiders info" about Gulf Air approving schools elsewhere? How soon should I expect any advancement in this regard?

4) Apart from AAA stuff...Do airlines in the middle east hire pilots without flying experience and only having JAA FROZEN ATPL? coz all the vacancies I've seen around are like hell of experience hours are required on top of the "UNFROZEN" ATPL!! and if the answer is "yes..they hire JAA fATPL pilots", how do you oulook the need for future pilots in the area?

Again guys... I'm still confused and don't wanna regret any decisions:confused:... and i'm here just to get the RIGHT advice...& I believe that i've got good fellows around here..!

thank you:ok:

If anyone of you would like to SAY MORE or want to share with me some of the"hidden truth about AAA" please send me PM.

SilveR5

4th Nov 2008, 10:18

gilderoy lockhart

I think GF & OAA are not going anywhere together...one senior captain at GF told me that the "great, wealthy prosperous Gulf Air" Audited OAA and guess what...they found out that OAA is not the suitable pick!!!!:rolleyes:

only god knows whether it's true..

AIM HI

5th Nov 2008, 06:18

SilveR5
I dont know if you were with us befor or not but this is what is happening here:
WORD WAR I; Started with one guy asking about the academy(may be at the wrong time) when some instrutors were leaving(terminated may be),
The instructors start to tell only the bad things, some instructors(and students) started to fight back.
There were so many viloations in the rules in this war ,the thread was closed.
WORD WAR II;
Playing up (terminated instructor) started the 2nd war by posting:
For all of those involved past and present in "the big top in the desert". Those consedring moving to Aqaba for employment are also welcome.
Bitching students not welcome, start your own thread!
the students (and loyal instructors)could not hold it ,the thread was removed.
WORD WAR III
We are now at the middle of this war, we are trying to keep it as positive as we can.

devil_pilot

5th Nov 2008, 22:03

Anymore staff leaving ?
...Yeah that's aviation Changes happenssss !!!!!! :ugh:

SilveR5

6th Nov 2008, 07:59

To all of those who have sent me PM's.....thaaaaaaaaaaaaank you guys :ok:

finding the truth is a hard job, isn't it?? ;)

devil_pilot

6th Nov 2008, 15:59

As i said to you SilveR5 it's not all the time the academy !!!

If the airspace was less messy and CARC decide to change some of their F:mad: rules i'm sure we could have more planes and much more interesting things to do

Cheers ;)

SilveR5

6th Nov 2008, 22:17

Devil Pilot

I agree...
I have nothing personal against AAA...on the contrary of this, I hope things get better...so that everybody receive the proper training & come back home to say with pride "mission accomplished"!;)

all the best

devil_pilot

6th Nov 2008, 23:57

So what are u planning to do ?:uhoh:

SilveR5

7th Nov 2008, 10:13

BDB won't offer pilot assessment sessions for the coming few months may be...so I'll be waiting for them first!!! you know it's a bit complicated everywhere..but will keep on going anyway

wish me luck!

.Aero

7th Nov 2008, 11:27

Hope is not lost if BDB stop their loan facility.

Most of the reputable banks in Bahrain offer personal loan facilities to Bahraini nationals with repayment schedules that range anywhere from 3-10 years.

I know HSBC in Bahrain offer personal loans upto 40,000 dinars. You will however be expected to pay interest on the repayments and you'll need to meet their elegibility criteria. So if BDB pulls the plug, there are other avenues to consider to help finance your flight training (should you need the financial assistance).

:ok:

SilveR5

8th Nov 2008, 10:48

You are right Aero

but I would certainly perfer 4% interest rate vs. 8%
and 12 months grace period vs. immediate installments!

so let's be hopeful my friend!

P.S. the presentation went well ;)

mafemukh

10th Nov 2008, 12:52

Just had an email from our former colleague, the Iraqi meteorology instructor. He is now settled in New Jersey, USA awaiting his Green Card ID and Social Security Number. I will pass on my best wishes from all of us.

goneeast

10th Nov 2008, 16:11

Ask him if hes going to support the Jets or the Giants...... Personally Im a Packers fan :cool:

Daddy-long-legs

10th Nov 2008, 18:20

so nice to hear Capt.S.k news. hope he will find the best....

i wish that AAA will get better soon. Inshalah all will be ok and wish those who left ayla the best....hope my friend will be ok....
salam

.Aero

12th Nov 2008, 14:41

devil_pilot

13th Nov 2008, 11:52

I bumped into a young chap recently who told me he was flight training with Ayla Aviation and he went on to say that Gulf Air had guaranteed him a flying career once he completes his flight training.

I smiled and said, 'Let's hope GF keep their promises!' http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

AHAHAHAHA Not true they don't promise anything !!! :ugh:

AIM HI

15th Nov 2008, 07:26

I Have A Question here;
IF YOU HAVE DONE YOUR TRAINING ON A NON CITIFIED AIRPLANE AND/OR SIMULATOR WHETHER IT WAS AT AERODROME,HOUSE OR AMALL?
If GF come to know this would it accept the record(s)???????????:{

contractor25

15th Nov 2008, 08:06

depending on legislation of the National Aviation Authority you will find that some countries will allow training on experimental(homebuilt) aircraft.
However, this catagory of aircraft is certfied by a NAA but not to an international standard.

Training for commercial purposes on this catagory of aircraft is not permitted, this commercial purpose can be the training itself (the instructor is getting paid) or the aim of obtaining a commercial licence.

To cut a long story short, if you have any doubt that a commercial school you're attending has not got it's aircraft maintained to such a standard as to maintain continued airworthiness then your first stop is the chief engineer of the maintenance facility, if this is not satisfactory then you can approach the NAA to which the aircraft is(are) registered. This however will give you at best the last renewal date of the C of A.

If this does not satisfy you altogether, you can then request a visit from an Airworthiness Inspector stating the reason you wish this visit to be performed, ie, serious issues relating to maintenance.

Do bear in mind though when you go this route that it will be your word against the maintenance facilities paperwork......

AIM HI

16th Nov 2008, 05:20

Let us not beat about the bush, if I go to CARC to get my license ,they say sorry we cannt accept your sim hours because it is not certified sim:uhoh:
Who will take the responsibility for this?
What can be done then?

contractor25

16th Nov 2008, 08:52

In that particular case you will have to consult the contract you have with the school. If the school claims the sim is approved but the authority says it's not then the problem lies with the school.

You will have to negotiate with the school to find some way to make up the shortfall. I would however advise to find a way to make up the shortfall meanwhile in order to get your licence issued and be prepared for a long argument if any of the previous posts about this school are anything to go by.

.Aero

16th Nov 2008, 10:06

What portion of your flight training are you doing on sims?

Che Guevara

16th Nov 2008, 11:08

I bumped into a young chap recently who told me he was flight training with Ayla Aviation and he went on to say that Gulf Air had guaranteed him a flying career once he completes his flight training

Definately not true...there is no gurantee of a job in GF. If they need pilots they will look at you,and if they are interested they might offer you a job, however that is just the beginning, furthermore getting a job does not gurantee you will keep the job, you must get up to the required standard. Sadly, not everyone makes that grade.

Sorry to be so plain, but perhaps it is good for the young ones to know what the reality of aviation is.

Good luck to all with the school and your futures.

AIM HI

17th Nov 2008, 08:03

(What portion of your flight training are you doing on sims)???
1st:
Does it make any defference?
2nd:
will known to everybody what a student can/has to do sim hours during his CPL/IR Course.
3rd:
Do you know,but just asking? or you dont know;)?

.Aero

17th Nov 2008, 10:56

Does it make any defference?Yes of course it makes a difference. There's only so much sim time that can be credited towards each phase of flight training.

If you know the name & model of the training devices your using, I would recommend you visit their commercial websites where you'll be able to find further information such as regulatory approvals etc.

and in case your wondering, you cant credit Microsoft FSX hours towards your Instrument Rating :}

.Aero

19th Nov 2008, 16:13

Sounds like Ayla Aviation has just signed a training agreement with a Jordanian private charter company called RayaJet (http://www.rayajet.com) . Doesn't their website look very similar to that of Ayla's?

SilveR5

19th Nov 2008, 21:59

Hi Aero...

r u sure about the agreement thing?? what purpose this one might be for??

talking about similarities between websites, compare Ayla's to Atlantic's website!!! like a wise brother and stupid sister..or I better say they r like a fully grown guy and a crazy little B:mad:ch !!:} :} of course u know who is who!! did I give any clue??! :E

Cheers mate

Truthful

24th Nov 2008, 15:05

I did see the posts written here but I could not find any of yours new posts. Have you got a new job somewhere? Or are you preparing to come back to AAA?

.Aero

24th Nov 2008, 15:47

r u sure about the agreement thing??

Hey Silver5,

Yes there was some form of a training agreement between the two companies.
Here is a press statement. (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/rayajet-grows-fleet/) Sounds non-eventful.

SilveR5

25th Nov 2008, 07:28

I appreciate your help Aero..but let me explain how do I see the case..

I actually still don't get it...what would this agreement bring new to Ayla? simulators?? A/C?? totally new courses?? the breakthrough in the molecular science of building new pilots?? when and why??

I don't know why we always have to ask hundreds of questions before we can ever get a single word of truth from any little stupid official:ugh::confused:...

I mean isn't it their business that they should look after and present it properly to "customers"?? and I'm not talking about Ayla being the best FTO in the world...it's just about the basics of building bonds between a company and its prospects...

so if they need more business they don't really have to send that as:mad: le R.K. to try fishing for students who are totally unaware of the mess in that heedless academy!! they just have to do some basics of professional management...otherwise they may go to a bookstore during one of their happy weekends and shop for "FTO,s for Dummies"!!

Aero,
I'm really thankful for your explanations...this is really very kind of you...but I should normally expect some1 to come out from Ayla to say "this is what we've been working on..and this is what we've got now.. and this is what we are looking for"...as simple as this!!! it's not supposed to be here in PPruNE...but it should at least appearing on their website with all the glory of mutual agreements!! why it is sooo F:mad:king difficult for those who think of themselves r real managers and CEOs to show up publicly with respect and speak out loudly in front of the media?? what the hell are they?? midnight bootleggers??!!!!:ugh::ugh:

so if one CEO doesn't have the courage to step down coz he simply can't (or doesn't know how to) run the organization, he should at least TRY TO LOOK LIKE some1 responsible for the problems encountered, and how possibly he could solve them...and explain the latest news and decisions, and what are the implications of these! personally I wish this could really happen...but I think the rotten bureaucracy there will never allow such a thing to come about..ever!!!:suspect:

Cheers

mafemukh

25th Nov 2008, 08:01

Nope, not going back to AAA. Just quiet because I have no news and nothing to say.
Silver, many FTO's in the U.S. have what are called #135 operations as a sideline. Essentially they are then able to offer charter services. What this means is that there are several ways in which the operations can benefit each other:

The charter operation may use instructors from the school to fly its aircraft;
The charter operation may use the FTO instructors to meet all its training and recurrency requirements;
The FTO may use the charter operation to fly its execs about;
The FTO may use the charter operation as an outlet/training for its cadets.Certainly with the growth in Aqaba and the limited airline service between AQB and AMM, such an alliance makes sense.

SilveR5

25th Nov 2008, 08:18

Thanks mafemukh..that's the thing (Feature+Advantage+Benefit) :D

hope that some marketing ppl take a look in here!!

.Aero

25th Nov 2008, 10:51

Is anyone able to confirm if the CEO initiated ban on PPRuNE still exists? I know he made it clear to his current paying customers they were not allowed to have an opinion on this forum. Is this still the case?

Truthful

25th Nov 2008, 18:46

AAA desperately needs you and its their tradition to keep in touch with expat instructors. As per my information, the things have really gone wrong after your departure. The new superannuated and un-licenced ground instructors will soon find themselves in a mess. AAA will soon contact you to recover the things once again, however my question to you is"" WILL YOU BE ABLE TO RECOVER IT?""

mafemukh

25th Nov 2008, 22:16

Thanks for your kind words Truthful.

To be honest, habibe, I don't think I will be asked to return and, indeed it may be too late as I have a couple of offers I am considering. Can it be turned round? YES!! It needs a leader in whom both cadets and staff can place their trust - I don't think I ever had a problem with trust.

I don't know of any ban on PPRuNe - and I don't think any attempt to ban either staff or cadets from posting would work. Yes, it may be possible to prevent access on the Ayla net but guys can still go to any number of other networks and post.

I am also very surprised that we haven't heard anything from any of the cadets for a while - they say "no news is good news" and I hope for their sakes that it is true...:rolleyes:

Truthful

26th Nov 2008, 16:37

This Academy really needs people like you to re-take off. Remember the students stopped writing because they can' t see any ray of hope in AAA now. Trust me these newly inducted Un-licenced GIs are not at all capable to move the things in the right direction. They are too old i.e 65 years and above to work so hard. I am sure they can' t get even the GI licences. You put all the differences aside and try to come back to at least reposition AAA for yet another take off. Give water to this tree which you had planted with a dedicated team. One complete course has been sent on leave because the present team failed to prepare them for CARC PPL exam.
Presnetly AAA is in the grip of so many crises which include the outflow of students with no influx of new ones, financial crunch, lack of properly trained plus licenced ground and flight instructors. Just imagine the three newly inducted CFIs could not go solo even after flying for more than 30 hours on the average. The ground School is just running an internal ATPL Course of 10 students, so this team is yet to be tested for teaching more than two courses simultaneously. One of the CFI oftenly gets into porpoise on landing or ballooning the aircraft on flare out well known to every student in AAA.
I mean you are desperately needed and as I know an ACGI who just worked here for over month and then left, he is also highly respected as a professional instructor who was equally liked by every one in Ground School. The combination of you two at AAA can really turn it into a sucessfull Academy.

mafemukh

27th Nov 2008, 07:40

Hi Truthful,
I offered to return but it was refused. I have put aside my differences but I don't think the CEO will do so: I was very critical of him upon leaving but it was the usual 'behavior breeds behavior' - if he had treated me with more respect and valued my contribution appropriately, I would still be there!
Was the ACGI's name Matt? If so, he is an old friend - we were even on the same squadron together in 1983!

mafemukh

28th Nov 2008, 09:29

Hi "A the B",
If all is how you say it is with the students, then I am delighted to hear it!
However, be careful, do not post full names on this forum as you can be sued for libel and PPRuNe may be required by court order to say who you really are.
I have no idea who the "aged" GI's are, certainly when I left the guys were all experienced and, all but one, certificated. The ACGI was the only one not locally certificated but I am sure he could quickly resolve that issue as he was a very knowledgable, experienced and committed instructor.
The only certification issue remaining is who can teach the Instrument Ground School. After my departure, AG was the only IGI left at AAA; if he is gone, then the only instructors qualified to teach the INST are the CFI's who have the Instrument Instructor rating. It can be argued from #61 regs that a GI with the Advanced Rating can teach anything; however, the test for this rating is pitched at the commercial certificate and does not involve either the IR or ATP. I (and I am sure CARC) would argue, therefore, that without the IGI, a GI is neither qualified to teach the IR nor the Instrument portion of the ATP.
Your comments about the lady manager are both unkind and inaccurate; she was a founding member of the team. She worked 24/7 to help the cadets - she may not have been the best manager, her personality was too quiet and introverted - but her dedication and work ethic could not be faulted. Whether she has another job or not is irrelevant - you should know how hard it is to find work as a female CFI!
Lastly, thank you for your kind comments about me and I hope all goes well with you and your colleagues at AAA.

AIM HI

30th Nov 2008, 05:02

Reference to post no.(231 and 232 )
I am asking myself : What kind of product is this?
(IF A and B is a student who will be a pilot soon)

EHBH

30th Nov 2008, 08:29

Guys why this topic is not ending??

Ayla is going down, all know that, Bahrain Air, Gulf Air , Oman Air, BDB
Stopped dealing with Ayla.

Take few minutes to search Google, to update yourself with the latest news.

C.Atef has a good knowledge, if not, then why he is in the MEA now ?

So please stop posting stupid threads and stop acting like a kid who is typing while crying.

We all feel sorry for Marwan, lately I read some financial from his accounting department that show Ayla is going down, not even a breakeven but huge loss.

We feel sorry for the students too, even though most of them are planning to leave Ayla after obtaining the PPL.

This is normal, it happens all over the world, bad management and misleading marketing destroys any company.

Truthful

30th Nov 2008, 14:14

In fact post # 231 & 232 have been written by some producer, so now you can imagine about his products who are likely to be in the markets in the near future.
They use such type of language so that the Web Master close this Thread. This gentleman or most probably lady (90 % probability is that the poster is one of the two ladies) should refrain from using such un-parliamentary words. You know only one such word used by the AAA Management in Bahrain on the 13th of October this year has resulted in no more student from that Country for Ayla.
Instead of using such words, they should logically prove that the writer concerned is wrong. However, their culture allows them to use such un-wanted words.
Also their IT Department must be capable to know the IP Address of the writer. A mere but stupid guess can' t allow them to defame some one.

Striker54

30th Nov 2008, 20:57

Well, regardless of what may happen and what is going on at the moment and later on in the academy's future. What has happened in the past is the result of the future's happening as such, is backed up by what has happened for the OJAQ Delta course which I wish for them to graduate with the guys who joined MAA "OJAM Delta".

This is a gossip forum and I would like to share a couple of stuff from what I have heard. Ayla went over the budget they have left for this year and the students that would like to apply for the CARC exam should pay for their own hotel expenses, added up to that he would like to get paid for the extra flying hours that we took till we waited for our checkride due to lack of management; which we logged them as CPL hours. Last but not least, the most uterely, funny and hilarious part is that he started charging the instructors for the coffee hahaha!! Well, that's my fair share of gossiping for the forum, so the thread would catch upto another 20 pages.

It's fun!! C YA!!!

.Aero

1st Dec 2008, 07:20

he started charging the instructors for the coffee

And how much money does the school plan on saving by making instructors pay for their own coffee? 15 JD a month?

EHBH

1st Dec 2008, 08:46

he would like to get paid for the extra flying hours that we took till we waited for our checkride due to lack of management

Guys you should do something regarding this, it's totally unfair, Marwan wants to cover his loss by your money, why he just don’t declare bankruptcy

EHBH

1st Dec 2008, 09:06

Guys there is a meeting in Gulfair regarding Bahraini Students in Ayla...
Marwan be prepared for the shock soon.

Truthful

11th Dec 2008, 14:43

I wish you all the best on these two ocassions.

pilitio

11th Dec 2008, 16:07

What a long thread. Just read the headlines from each post and I think as my friend said its a gossip website. However, to clearify things, everyone knows that the academy went through a hard time and many students got screwed either in ground school or flight school. In addition, things have been moving up and down since all the management changes.

With all respect to the expats in AAA some who I also respect and appreciated their effort whilst they were here, I would say from my own point of view the following points:

1- The ground school is settled down now, if you dont belive it come and attend a class. The instructors who you are caliming that they dont have their license I think you better check with the CARC resources and find their papers because everyone of them is certified. Talking about these guys, just sit in a class with them and listen to the knowledge they have. Im sorry but they are licensed and certified and have a knowledge which I think hard to find someone with that amount of it in all Jordan academies. Dont beleive that ? give it a visit ;)

2- OJAQ Delta !!! No one is assured whether OJAQ Delta or OJAM Delta is going to finish first, secondly there are plan to finish OJAQ guys on time and thats I guess something private in the academy and not necessary to discuss here.

3- Ayla will soon be a JAA approved facility.

4- Speaking of cutting cost or going over budget, I know its not in the students benifits in some ways but I can list more than 20 points that AAA offers to students that other FTO's dont.

5- Gulf Air meeting is an audit meeting FYI + followup for the students and that is all to insure the APPROVAL is in the right path (which no other FTO has yet, you thought there are places approved in Jordan!! Sorry too bad) so GF just wants to insure their students are doing well ;)

6- Going bankrupt!!! Are you kidding me?

I am not in a defense of attack position here. Its just that I am speaking of what I experiece everyday. Of course there are many problems between time to time but all being solved step by step.

SilveR5

12th Dec 2008, 00:54

Ayla will soon be a JAA approved facility.

How certain are you about this?? what's your source of info?

guys...did you hear about such a thing?!

pilitio

12th Dec 2008, 00:59

The source is the fact of what is happenning nowadays

SilveR5

12th Dec 2008, 01:23

ok..but I would be so much glad to have more generous information...what is it happening there nowadays that could be linked to AAA becoming JAA approved FTO?

This is a bit big piece of news, if it's really REALLY true! & that's why I ask about the little facts

mafemukh

12th Dec 2008, 08:13

Hi Silver,
Owing to the fact that AAA has links with AFT in Coventry, a JAA-approved organisation, AFT can seek JAA approval for AAA as a satellite operation. This process can approve some or all of the CPL/IR course at AAA, ie., it may be purely a groundschool approval that is sought, or it may be the whole course.
There are sufficient differences in the FAA (CARC) and JAA flight syllabi that full approval will probably be left for the future, ie., when CARC goes JAA as it has indicated it wishes to do so. However, there is the ability to approve the groundschool alone and this would not be very difficult to achieve, albeit relatively expensive owing to the requirements for site inspection.
As to pilotio's comments about GI certification, I would be very surprised if any of them have yet achieved the Instrument Ground Instructor rating. This is the hardest rating and the only 2 GI's who had the rating no longer work there, ie. "A the B" and me!

Truthful

12th Dec 2008, 19:02

In fact CARC Team carried out an inspection of AAA from November 22 to November 25, 2008 to audit it, particularly the licences. Following facts were revealed:-
1. AAA is imparting training to simple CPL/IR licence holders to convert them to the status of CFIs, however AAA is not certified to do so. Moreover these under-training CPL/IR licence holders have not gone solo even after flying 40:00 Hours on the average.
2. Maintenence Director does not possess a licence to supervise maintenence activities.
3. One Simulator installed in Ground School has never been approved for its air wothiness by any agency.
4. Only two, out of six, Ground Instructors were licenced. CGI claims to be possessing AMEL but he could never show it. One of the Deputy CGIs is above 65 years of age caliming to possess an ATPL but physically he does not possess it, so he was absent on the day of Ground School audit. Standardization Manager possesses an ATPL which has expired in September 2002 and thence never renewed, however he gave tough time to CARC team while cross questioning them on their authority. One more newly inducted GI was not having any licence and he has already attained the superannuation age i.e. he is above 65 years of age. The fourth GI is having an engineering degree which enables him to instruct as per his own interpretation of Rules of CARC. CGI is attaining the age of 69 years which is well above the superannuation age of 65 years.
5. The Ground School is without CARC approved CGI for more than 60 days and as per CARC rule 141.187 the funtioning of Ground School can be stopped or AAA licence must be revoked. Strangely CARC feels helpless to take any action against AAA, why? Only God knows.
6. mafemukh can throw some light on these points.

Truthful

12th Dec 2008, 19:13

In fact this theory was put forward by an un-licenced Deputy CGI who convinced CEO that he would get him JAA approval under the umbrella of AFT Coventory. CEO has given him the date of December 31, 2008 to finalise all arrangements for this approval. So far that DCGI has not been able to finalise the JAA syllabus even of the subjects which he instructs in AAA. They even failed to hold internal CARC examinations for Foxtrot Course before sending them for actual CARC PPL Exam. In fact only one such test was taken of this Course which included only the first two chapters of Gleim. By spreading this rumours, in fact AAA want to attract students and simlutaneously block the outflow of students from here. Now with the onset of non-flying season for well over three months, the frustration of students will grow manifolds. So to preempt this, this rumour of JAA has been propagated among the students presently stranded at AAA.

SilveR5

12th Dec 2008, 22:51

mafemukh

Thanks for the clarification. I would regard the process you have explained as the way that should be followed by any FTO to become JAA approved. Theoretically AAA can do it utilizing the links with AFT as you have said. But let's consider one thing about AAA.
In 2007, they have promised that the year 2008 is going to be the "MPL Year". They have gathered respectful people from every place around globe to the MPL symposium in Aqaba. In my knowledge, Gulf Air was even more excited about AAA because of the potential introduction of the MPL course. AAA has vertually done everything to bring around everybody to MPL, saying that AAA and MPL are such a "perfect fit"!! Now where are we with MPL at AAA? absolutely nothing! or hopefully this is gonna be the Xmas surprise!

What I'm trying to say is, unless serious steps forward are initiated and declared by AAA, how could we possibly believe their claims of becoming JAA approved FTO?!

Truthful
part of what you have said is consistent with news I've heard recently.

It's all about integrity gents

Ayla

13th Dec 2008, 06:22

It would seem slightly pointless for just JAA Acreditation of the Groundschool and not the rest of the course. The student would want to graduate with a full JAA licence. It may make licence conversion easier at a later date perhaps.

To get full JAA acreditation has got to increase the course price significantly especialy as some elements would have to be done at AFT in Coventry.

What has made the CEO change his mind. when the school started with the AFT folks in charge JAA acreditation was always an aim, but was dismissed by the CEO and his supporters who favoured the FAA approach.

mafemukh

13th Dec 2008, 12:58

I wish I could help you with some of your questions regarding who is and who isn't licensed or aged at the groundschool but there appears to have been major changes there and I've no idea who has been brought in or who has left. The situation was, when I left it:

Acting CGI: British, no CARC certification
Longstanding Jordanian GI: GI cert + AGI/IGI ratings - apparently now gone
Iraqi GI: GI cert + AGI rating - definately now gone
Pakistani GI: GI cert + AGI rating
3 x former MEA Jordanian GI's: GI cert + AGI rating
Freelance GI: for Bridge courses only, British, no CARC certification

With regard to JAA Licensing:
1. Generally, the FTO should have its "Principal Place of Business" in a JAA State. This means that AAA would normally have to be based in Europe; however, it can be used as a satellite by AFT and, as such, operate under AFT's approval. AAA could apply to a JAA state for its own approval; however, there is no obligation for any other JAA state to recognize the license.
2. No Middle East country is a JAA State, although some - Qatar, Kuwait, Oman - have adopted the JAR-FCL system; however, this does not make them a JAA State nor does it make the licenses they issue JAA ones. I had expected the JAA to survive EASA and become a worldwide licensing system but this does not seem to be the case.
3. JAA certification of the groundschool alone is not a bad idea, it allows all of the work up to the last 5 hours of CPL and 10 hours IR to be completed at Ayla before the completion of the CPL/IR + MCC at AFT. The standards in the ground school were acceptable for certification; however, the flight school was in a bit of a mess and whether it could produce a candidate who could pass the CPL and MEIR after the 5/10 hours respectively would be a matter of debate. In addition, the CARC course would have to be modified such that a number of its VFR X-country hours became IFR X-C.
MPL:
See previous posts - I wrote the approved Core and had just finished the Basic for approval when the project was postponed, based on the opinions, albeit well-intentioned, of 2 marketers and 1 low-time FI.
One of the major reasons for postponement was that competency-based assessment documentation had not been produced. Despite my vast experience in writing manuals, it was deemed by those without any curriculum writing experience that this stuff could be easily produced for Core - B***S***, there are too many competencies, which are too varied, and where the learning curve is at its steepest!! Writing the competency-based assessment documentation would have been a huge project that would have cost much and benefitted NOTHING to this phase of training! The documentation would be eminently suitable and easy to produce for the Basic phase and this could have been done while the Core phase was running. However, I was overruled again.
All-in-all MPL could and should have been running at AAA but owing to poor decision-making it is not.
I have not heard about what has happened to this project but my guess is NOTHING - it is exactly the right method for this part of the world, ie. regions without a large General Aviation segment, but it requires vision and clarity, both of which seem to be in short supply in Aqaba!
As to the apparent inactivity towards AAA's certification problems - why am I not surprised!

.Aero

13th Dec 2008, 15:28

As mafemukh outlined, JAA approval is theoretically possible. Whether or not this materializes is another question. If AAA are struggling to comply with local CARC legislation as Truthful detailed in a previous post, how on earth are they to meet the requirements of JAR-FCL? I was just reading through the UK CAA's guidance notes [pdf] (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_39.PDF) for the approval of overseas JAA-PPL training and there are so many areas AAA wouldn't satisfy in it's present state - and those are just PPL requirements!

The easiest route to approval would be for AAA to act as overseas satellite operation to AFT. They share the same parent company so I cannot see why this could not happen if it made good business sense.

Mafemukh, I'm assuming both AAA and AFT are operated independently of one another. Is there any 'gene flow' between the two outfits?