Ayla Aaa Jordan

[pilitio]

Well my dear friend if you want to discuss this:

1- Neither GF or BDB recommend a training facility for the students. They open a free choice to everyone to choose wherever they want and If you want to believe me I can prove to you in Black and White that GF recommends AAA but I dont think I am forced to do so by end of the day its my personal openion and I am staying here.

2- I guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRUNE and discuss anything about AAA because all what its being said is not more than rumours but I guess things have changed now.

Anyways, I just came here to post my reply just to clarify few things not to get into deep arguements and I have more things to worry about in my training rather than talking about the academy which I belong to. Keep bringin your academy down by your rumours and by end of the day look who will trust you being in his company if this is what you do to your academy. So I guess people better think positively and try to be constructive members by giving good feedback rather complaining for nothing. If you really want the best for yourself then work for it otherwise just simply leave nothing is stopping you my friend !! Many others did and they are happy.

[EHBH]

Pilitio we post facts here and nothing else..

News, Delta course in Ayla became 9 out of 20 cadets..

Number of students is decreasing rapidly...((( what's going on ))

[.Aero]

I guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRuNe and discuss anything about AAAThanks. This answers my previous question. I heard that students were brought into a classroom by staff and were told not to take part on this forum - I suppose you've just confirmed that.

This is after all a rumour network as the title suggests. Not all rumours turn out to be false or inaccurate!

[AIM HI]

[guess there were some expats who adviced us not to visit PPRuNe and discuss anything about AAA ]

At the bigining it was the Employees,now students,whos next?:eek:

[Truthful]

People say its a rumour network, yes its true but honest to GOD speaking each and every word of my post # 244 & 245 is correct. I challenge everybody to porve my these posts to be wrong and thence I shall quit this Forum.

For mafemukh

Please note that even one of the three Jordanian GIs is also un-licenced while he is not willing to take the CARC knowledge and oral test for GI licence as he thinks an an engineer does not require this licence to instruct under-training pilots. One more newly inducted Met Instructor, a Jordanian, is also un-licenced.

JAA approval
As per JAA rules only the acedmies of JAA member states can be approved for JAA Syllabus. Furhtermore, presently none of the GIs is a JAA licenced or approved instructor & only two CFIs are holding these licences, I suppose for these CFIs but I am not sure. Also read JAA Rule-141 for Instructor qualifications, Rule-143 and 145 for maintenence and then you will come to know that this JAA conversion of AAA is all nothing but a drama staged just to hold in the present students.

[Truthful]

Next will be outsiders writing here not to post, trust me they will soon approach them.

[Truthful]

Take my words that more students are leaving including even those who have yet to see the cockpit. Time will be testimony of my this statement.

[AIM HI]

(Next will be outsiders writing here not to post, trust me they will soon approach them. )
How do they do it? Moneybag? not much left:ouch:
Shares ? we all know now it is going back:zzz:
SO how the f:mad:# they /He/She will do it:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Truthful]

Yes may be through the use of Feloos and identification of poster through use of certain software. Although AAA itself is running into great loss but still they have money because money has never been a problem here. If a superannuated unlicenced GI can be given a salary of 5000 JoD and a house worth 650 JoD per month, a lady can be given a gift of over 3000 JoD on her birth day and joy rides in AAA aircraft; then money is not a problem.

[Sultan85]

With every landing in the A320, I remember that days when I was a student pilot in the small aircrafts:O, and one of them was Ayla Diamond 42 AC.

Miss you Ayla!:)

[pilot4ever]

Sorry To Say That Jaa Is No More Gonna Be There Buy The End Of 2008 Things Had Changed 3 Months Ago Really Surprised That You Ppl Dont Know About It ?????the Name And Organization Is Easa There Is No Way That Aaa Be A Member Of Jaa Why Its Not Compliance With Jar Ops And The Instructors And Examinars Are Not Authorised From The Jaa Which Is Easa Now ....................................

[AIM HI]

Truthful ( Although AAA itself is running into great loss but still they have money because money has never been a problem here.)
If they are not after money,then what are they after ?????
We all know it is not a SHOEs factory:suspect:

[Mike.Park]

a lady can be given a gift of over 3000 JoD on her birth day and joy rides in AAA aircraftAt least you know where your tuition fees are going!

Pilot4Ever, PLD responsibilities of the JAA will eventually be handed over to EASA in due course and they are currently going through a transition period. It's a long and complicated affair and you will not see this transition reach fruition by the end of the year as you suggested.

Also bear in mind that the JAA do not directly approve FTOs in non-JAA member states. It is a chosen national aviation authority of a JAA member state that carries out the approval process. I'll give you an example.

- ISEA in Australia is approved by the Swedish CAA therefor you will be issued with SCAA licences (under JAR)

- WAAC in Australia is approved by the UK CAA therefor you will be issued with UK CAA licences (under JAR)

[AIM HI]

The Ground School is without CARC approved CGI for more than 60 days and as per CARC rule 141.187 the funtioning of Ground School can be stopped or AAA licence must be revoked. Strangely CARC feels helpless to take any action against AAA, why? Only God knows.

I Dont believe it !!!!! who owns/shares this FTO :oh:???

[Truthful]

I have already challenged all posters and readers to prove that I was writing things which are wrong, I will then quit this Forum.
Yes the Lady was given two gifts worth 3000 JoDs.
And this AAA is without CARC Approved CGI for well over three months but CARC is helpless to exercise its authority in this regard.
Amusingly and amazingly, one GIs has been inducted who is un-licenced but from Europe. This GI has already attained the age of superannuation and he was waiting to receive his old age benefits from his government, for which the process will take about three months. He came here to spend only these three months and then he will go back to Spain to enjoy his old age benefits. This GI met the free lance DGCI in Spain where he worked in a Spainish Academy for one week and met him. This Free lance un-licenced & superannuated DCGI was shown his way out of that Academy because of non-availability of any licence. This DCGI also remained CGI in AAA for three days and then he was relegated to the status of GI after misbehaving with students. After few days after this occurrence, he was promoted as DCGI. He is the one who promised CEO to get him approval of JAA under the umbrella of AFT Coventory due to his lack of knowledge regarding JAA Rules and regulations.
I again challenge everybody to prove that the contents of my this posts are wrong.

[Truthful]

You are absolutely right but this unlicenced and superannuated DCGI deceived the AAA CEO as he is a simple PPL holder but still Head of Training. So the ignorant CEO accepted his suggestion and employed him as CGI, GI and finally DCGI on a salary well over 5000 JoDs and a hired a villa worth 675 JoDs per months. What a state of affairs at AAA?
Your post means that JAA approval for AAA is subject to the approval of CARC but Standardization Manager at AAA argued with CARC auditors on November 25, 2008 saying that CARC people were illiterate and ignorant about the aviation rules & regulations. Carc remained silent on this occassion. So how would they involve CARC in this process??

[Truthful]

People here write that the superannuated and Un-licenced CGI, DCGI, Standardization Manager, GIs are so knowledgeable, if they are really so then the CARC GI knowledge test and oral test should not be a problem for them. However, why are they reluctant to take these test in the vast insterest of AAA????

My own answer to my question is that they can' t pass these tests.

To know more about Stadardization Manager, please visit Alfujairah Aviation Academy thread on this Forum, particularly post # 27.

[Truthful]

This is a new advertisement in Flight International. Read it and please don' t laugh<<<<<<<<<<<ATPL Ground Instructor (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/viewjob.aspx?id=200301367&cp=EMC-FGJBE-Jobsbyemail)
Ayla Aviation Academy has a vacancy for an experienced ATPL ground instructor to teach multi-cultural and multi-national students to the JAA approved syllabus. The Academy currently offers CPL/IR and ATPL courses of training. ...
Job Position: Permanent | Location: Jordan | Company: Ayla Aviation Academy | Published Date: 2008-12-15 09:25:14>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Which JAA Approved Syllabus are they talking about??? This advertisement is an ample proof of the knowledge level of present CGI, DCGIs and Standardization Manager. What a joke is it??
JAA has never approved the AAA syllabus. If somebody proves my this sentence to be wrong, I shall quit Aviation Industry for ever; I promise.

JAA authorities must take notice of this Advertisement. They should take legal action against AAA through, of course, CARC. CARC should also stop AAA from publishing such advertisement as CARC exactly know that AAA syllabus has never been approved by JAA because such approval definitely needs the involvement of CARC.

[AIM HI]

Aim Hi
I have already challenged all posters and readers to prove that I was writing things which are wrong, I will then quit this Forum.

Truthful
I am sorry ,I didnot mean I dont believe you. I mean I dont believe why CARC is not taking any action?read my post again...

[Truthful]

Truthful
I am sorry ,I didnot mean I dont believe you. I mean I dont believe why CARC is not taking any action?read my post again... 15th December 2008 14:17

Thanx for your these kind comments. Carc does not take any action against all the AAA violations of its own rules and Regulations, why- only God knows it. However one thing is clear that CARC authorities are well aware of all these violations.

One Interesting event
CEO of AAA, along with the two sister employees, visited Bahrain from November 30 to December 03, 2008 on a PR mission as they call it. Actually it was a marketing mission to attract Bahraini students to AAA. They ran there from pillars to poles in search of students. They visited three high schools and one university there propagating the AAA false image as an JAA approved academies. They also delivered several presentations on power point even showing the nationalities of instructors of AAA to impress the Bahraini students. Now they claim to have received at least three applications from Bahraini students for admission in AAA. They also offered Bahraini schools and university students to visit AAA to see its facilities and meet its superannuated and un-licenced instructors. Well their claim of coming three Bahraini students, has yet to be ascertained.

AAA also arranged a dinner for the 09 left Bahraini students on December 14, 2008 to appease them. Unfortunately AAA management don' t know that even some of those 09 left over students are also planning to go to other academies. This is a unique event to stop them from going out. However these students need to be graduated in time as they have to return back the BDB loans and such appeasing dinners are useless for them.

[AIM HI]

We are done with the Ground School:}
What about CFIs,are they good?
Do they have experienced CFIs? As far as i know they are(most of them )with very low instructional houres:cool:
What the students think?

[Truthful]

We are done with the Ground Schoolhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif
What about CFIs,are they good?
Do they have experienced CFIs? As far as i know they are(most of them )with very low instructional houreshttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/cool.gif
What the students think? AIm Hi
Have you seriously asked about CFIs at AAA?
There are only four CFIs in reality, the two Jordanians and two brits. All others should undergo CPL/IR courses again. their flying hours are just equal to the students they are flying with. Four of them could not go solo even after flying 45:00 hours because their previous flying hours range from 330:00 hrs to 350:00 hours. The Chief FI is just worried about them at all times but he is helpless to send them back home. One of the lady CFIs is all the time busy on her laptop making a new Master Plan every week and roaming behind the CEO. This Lady CFI gets into porpoise after touch down while she gets into ballooning at flare out. One more CFI is famous for flaring out at 100 feet looking at altimeter all the time and he is dependent on student at such height. Today you offer the four CFIs a good package and they are ready to quit because they don' t like these CPL/IR holders being converted into CFIs.

In fact the Management is running AAA exactly like a Real Estate comany, this is the biggest tragedy. Luckily so far no fatal accident has occurred otherwise all ingredients for such accident are readily available here. No See Off and Reception procedure is followed at taxxing out or parking in and so many other things. Come and one one day see these things with your own eyes but please then control yourself not to laugh.

The aircraft are toed behind normal Datsun Pick ups and once the toed aircraft hit this vehicle damagin both i.e the aircarft itself and that vehicle.

[Truthful]

It is strange and amazing that so far nobody has accepted my challenge to prove the contenets of my posts wrong.

[scorpion777]

Dear all,

Have you heard the latest News, one of AAA students has decided finally to leave the academy after suffering 9 months ( May- Dec ) trying to get his PPL license , as he describe he was promised to complete the PPL stage in 3 months as a Max but he end up with 9 months without getting his PPL.

Now the funny thing that this student has Paid $19,875 for the ( PPL 1st stage ) and had in total ( 22 flying hours , plus his Ground School ) after negotiation with the AAA accountant and the CEO, the CEO has decided not to refund the student at all .. Imagine some students have completed their PPL with having more than 70 flying hours and charged the same amount of money $ 19,875? It all depends on the CEO Mood. The poor student end up coming back to Bahrain without nothing.:uhoh:

Now according to the CEO new strategy he is trying to cut the costs to cover his losses by (trying to charge the driver of the coffee, charging the student for the I-net in their residence, providing vending machines here and there) to be honest this academy is going down and its not a healthy place to study or live at all.. Imagine he is trying to get the signature of the student to guarantee their stay in the academy although the majority hasn’t finished yet their (1st PPL stage). He has a famous word ..( You are welcome in my academy as long as you PAY )

The CEO thinks that he is smart in away to run up this business, yes you can run up a business in the this part of the world by giving money under the table, spending gifts here and there, but the QUESTION is till when you will be able to cheat people?

Recently most of the Airlines are aware about what is happening in this Academy and I personally don’t think that any of the students will be able to meet the airlines.

Finally, my advice to anyone wants to study aviation not to join AAA academy at all, because it’s Not a healthy place at all and the standards are Not JAA, All the students are complaining about the place and many instructors have left this place and it was like a black point in their lives and if the students find a mall gap a very small gap to leave the AAA they wont stay their for a second .( according to the CEO ) once any one leave the AAA he says his famous word ( It is natural thing in aviation world and its healthy ) it seems that this was the only word he learn from his university and business world although I sometimes think that he has a degree in House keeping and cooking .. Yes you find it easy and bright and the CEO tries his best to attract you by all the dirty ways of entertainment, marketing and once you join AAA and you pay the Fees , then you will be no longer important for them you will be part of past. Wish you all learn a leason from our friends Miskate and to investigate and make up your mind before you decide to join any aviation academy. because some acedemies like AAA try to buy the ( Most perfect and colourful bright image but in fact its is not like that in REALITY) ... God Bless you all

[scorpion777]

Dear all,

Have you heard the latest News, one of AAA students has decided finally to leave the academy after suffering 9 months ( May- Dec ) trying to get his PPL license , as he describe he was promised to complete the PPL stage in 3 months as a Max but he end up with 9 months without getting his PPL, Now the funny thing that this student has Paid $19,875 for the ( PPL 1st stage ) and had in total ( 22 flying hours , plus his Ground School ) after negotiation with the AAA accountant and the CEO, the CEO has decided not to refund the student at all ..

Imagine some students have completed their PPL with having more than 70 flying hours and charged the same amount of money $ 19,875? It all depends on the CEO Mood. The poor student end up coming back to Bahrain without NOTHING !!!


Now according to the CEO new strategy he is trying to cut the costs to cover his losses by (trying to charge the driver for the coffee, charging the student for the I-net in their residence, providing vending machines here and there) to be honest this academy is going down and its not a healthy place to study or live at all.. Imagine he is trying to get the signature of the student for the second payment to guarantee their stay in the academy although the majority hasn’t finished yet their (1st PPL stage). He has a famous word ..( You are wellcome in my Academy as long as you PAY )

The CEO thinks that he is smart in away to run up this business, yes you can run up a business in the this part of the world by giving money under the table, spending gifts here and there, but the QUESTION is till when you will be able to cheat people?

Recently most of the Airlines are aware about what is happening in this Academy and I personally don’t think that any of the students will be able to meet the airlines minimum standards.

Finally, my advice to anyone wants to study aviation not to join AAA academy at all, because it’s not a healthy place at all and the standards are Not JAA, All the students are complaining and suffering from the place and many instructors have left this place and it was like a black point in their lives, and if the students find a small gap a very small gap to leave the AAA they wont stay their for a second .( according to the CEO ) once any one leave the AAA he says his famous word ( It is natural thing in aviation world and its healthy ) it seems that this was the only word he learn from his university and business world although I sometimes think that he has a degree in House keeping and cooking .. Yes you find it easy and bright and the CEO tries his best to attract you by all the dirty ways of entertainment, marketing and once you join AAA and you pay the Fees , then you will be no longer important for them you will be part of past.

Quote of the week

(( Not Everything That Shines Is Gold .. ya BABA )) – Scorpion 777


Hey you …( BAD BOY ) put in mind that Bahraini students WON’T KEEP QUITE and will refuse to be part of your dirty play … it’s a matter of time and you will see AAA ... Down ... Down …

************************************************************ ***

Quote of next week

The only disability in life is a Bad attitude ~ Scott Hamilton


*********************************************************

[Mike.Park]

the CEO has decided not to refund the student at all, it all depends on the CEO Mood

Is their refund policy documented anywhere? What does your training agreement between you & the school say with regards to refunds?

[scorpion777]

Hi Mike,

What do you mean by ( Is their refund policy documented anywhere? )

Is there any well known flying institute in the world .. don’t have refund policy ? AAA has a mess in their Management and they make up what ever they won't .. They are the rule Makers .. please be clear and do you think that this student just make up stories .. and that I will be posting things without evidence ?

Anyways thanks for your comment and participation.

Regards,

[devil_pilot]

WooW more sound from Ayla **** !!!!!


I'm tired of hearing bad news GUYZ BRING GOOD NEWS !!!!!!


:E QUOTE OF THE WEEK : :E

“Nothing travels faster than light, with the possible exception of bad news, which follows its own rules (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/nothing_travels_faster_than_light-with_the/165201.html)”

[devil_pilot]

One more CFI is famous for flaring out at 100 feet looking at altimeter all the time and he is dependent on student at such height

Ahahhahaaaaaaa :ugh: cant stop laughing ahahahah

[Mike.Park]

Scorpion777,

Training agreements are usually signed when you enroll onto a course of flight training (especially when large sums of money is involved). In fact, you will not be accepted onto a course of training unless you read, understand, and sign their training agreement. It's usually part of the enrollment process before you commence training.

You might sometimes hear it being referred to as the "small print". That document usually has a section that outlines the school's policy regarding refunds.

Are you saying Ayla Aviation does not ask you to sign any form of a training agreement?

[scorpion777]

Dear Mike,

Many thanks for your clarification.. Yes I understand what you mean And you are absolutely Right .. Please put in mind that my friend has lived and studied in many European countries and had a well know managerial position in one of the famous Banking sectors and he is totally aware about all the rules and regulations .. Just wanna clarify that many students left the academy and had refund without having a correct state of prove for the expenses charged during their stay. It was all given randomly without any well document supports.

The fact that the Management are trying to play it smart by stating all prices are subjected to change with prior notification. But in fact it will be changed without Any Notification.

So let me give you an example: imagine you are enrolled in the course and you have 45 hours of flying the Management will chare you for example lets say $ 250 per hour. So if you decided to leave the academy they will charge you $480 per hour . Just to make sure that you won’t have anything remaining for refund and to Revenge in a nice Way. Hope you understood my point Mike.. It’s not a personal issue it’s general case.

Many thanks again for your replay

Regards,

[goneeast]

Dont be too hard on the accountant, he has no power at all, even routine cheques have to be signed by the CEO.. I was promised payment of final wages, and date was agreed. I was leaving Aqaba the next day, so prompt payment was vital. The management tried to delay payment. It would have been difficult for me to chase money once I had left the company, so I complained. The accountant couldnt help. The COO at Coventry tried, stating that I had delayed my departure, to help get students through an exam, no joy. So I resorted to direct action. I walked into office and made threats, I phoned head office in Amman, I got my money, but you have to get nasty. Get legal if required.

But the accountant has lasted as long as he has by looking and acting dumb.. if he hadnt, he'd be one of the 1.5 million fired..:}

[Truthful]

Ahahhahaaaaaaa :ugh: cant stop laughing ahahahah


Devil pilot
If you are a student, then you must be knowing this great CFI. Actually its the fault of HR department to enrole such joky doky GIs and CFIs. They think that by employing people from all world, AAA will become a muti-cultural International Academy. I think finally AAA will convert into an International Driving School with present Standardization Manager as its head and his son as Chief Driving Instructor.

[Truthful]

Training agreements are usually signed when you enroll onto a course of flight training (especially when large sums of money is involved). In fact, you will not be accepted onto a course of training unless you read, understand, and sign their training agreement. It's usually part of the enrollment process before you commence training.


YES AAA does sign an agreement with the students on a plain sheet of paper wherein there is no provision for refund. Moreover, about ten students have left this Academy in October This year. These students were granted extra flying hours which they flew because CEO boasted to Gulf Air that AAA would bear these expenses. These migrated students have not yet been refunded their money back while CEO is demanding them to pay AAA for thoses extra hours.

[scorpion777]

Goneeast,

We are talking in a subject and you are talking in another subject .. Man who mentioned the accountant .. Ary Baba .. I'm pointing to the CEO .. and his reaction .. the Accountant is dump in a way that he doesn't know how to write a cheque at all .. and it happend many times .. students went to the bank to withdraw the cheque and it was rejected, either mistake in the date, words doesnt match the amount numbers, etc.:ugh:

Plus the accounts department of AAA are just acting as collection department taking money again .. again and again from students .. always accounts are CREDITED they dont know Debit T bookings .. hehhehehe .. and these days they are so Busy for the Year End closing 2008 .. they have to count how many glasses of coffee they have sold during the year on students, drivers, etc ... that might reduce the 9M losess of AAA.:}

[devil_pilot]

Well i heard that there is an instructor making A320 app in a C172 ahahahahahahh :D

"Hold it up hold it up more more.....booommm Tail strike :ooh:"

=======>> see this is how u land a C172...And he is still rolling on the runway to taxi out nose up....WHEELIE WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO :ugh:

[Truthful]

A320 Landing
Well i heard that there is an instructor making A320 app in a C172 ahahahahahahh :D

"Hold it up hold it up more more.....booommm Tail strike http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/icon25.gif"

=======>> see this is how u land a C172...And he is still rolling on the runway to taxi out nose up....WHEELIE WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO :ugh:


That CFI claims to have been an airliner pilot in USA. Instead of starting breaking glide at this height, he starts flaring out at 100 feet. I am afraid one day he will stall at short short final.

[Truthful]

In near future AAA will prove to be a very good Ayla International Driving School (AIDS) with Hi-tech Vehicles (HIV) fitted with DGPS being taught to these modern day drivers by the Free Lance superannuated un-licenced DCGI. The present Standardization Manager will employee his Driving Instructor son as Chief Driving Instructor (CDI). The Organization of this school will be like this:-
1. Present CEO = CEO AIDS
2. Present CGI = Chief Mechanical Instructor
3. Present Free Lance DCGI = Traffic Rules and Roads Instructor.
4. Other DCGI = Police Liaison Officer/Licencing Manager/Perfumes Store Manager
5. Present Standardization Manager = Head of AIDS
6. Present Met Instructor = Road climatology Instructor
7. 100 feet Flaring out Instructor = Drivers' Examiner
8. CPL/IR Holder CFIs = Female Driving Instructors

[devil_pilot]

Truthful ahahahahha AWESOME

Who are u,,,,,, I WANT TO KNOW :}:O

[scorpion777]

Hi Devil_Pilot & Truthful,

Yes this Guy has his own unique style of LANDING … imagine Airbus Company asked him to test the new A-380 before it was released to the Markets … No wonder .. Mr. AmeGoOoOoOos He Haaaaaaaaa … His famous world to his students fly visual and Full your Tumy as much as you can.:D

He has a strange habit which is to Fill his STOMACHE before and After any Flight AND it is a MUST ..:eek:

And if you are prepared for a flight and go to get his approval for any Solo Flight he will give you the same silly Question .. What is the Crosswind component ? Before you answer he directly Says ..CANCLE THE STUDENT FLIGHT .. Student IS UNPRAPARED .. Hehehe … :=

I think that he will be acting in ( ZORO Part II ) but he asked the Director to give him some time .. Because he has to take some of his students Solo first then he will be Free. Hehehheheh ... :cool:

[Truthful]

When are you going to graduate as per the latest Master Plan prepared by the Porpoise Lady CFI? Non-flying weather will soon set in Aqaba thats why I asked you this question.


Secondly I am sure that AAA will soon become AIDS, I have reasons to say this.


Thirdly I have used for Other DCGI the word, " Perfumes Store Manger". You know why? You please approach him to know the reason. If he tells you the truth, you students will further be alienated from AAA to the extent that you will start hating this Academy.

[Mike.Park]

Thought you gents might find this funny :}

http://i44.tinypic.com/6gc5s8.gif

[scorpion777]

Well done Mike .. Nice Job .. But you should have drawn him with a Bigger STOMACHE and with the AAA Safety Procedure File in his Right hand .. and a Double Wapper Sandwich in his other Left hand .. heeeeeeee haaaaaaaaa

[Striker54]

OK, here it goes...I just cracked my fingers and I'm ready to type!

1) Member EHMH, flaming against Pilitio isn't going to do you any good...Take it easy, relax, we were once a part of the same academy.

2) Pilitio - As I see it, it's like playing a console game. When I used to stay in Aqaba, NOT flying for a whole entire month, myself and my neighbour used to connect both of our xbox360s and play Forza and challenge each other on who would tune up the car better. AAA is just a larger scale of the previous story, it's not a friggin game, it's a FUTURE, it's as relying your future on an 8-ball. Walla I wish all of my buddies especially OJAQ Delta to graduate as soon as they can because they are all my brothers, I don't really care if they get my seat or whatever in GF, as long as they are happy, I am happy. I have lived with them for a whole year and everyone of them is a genuine person and deserves a seat in the A320. I would definitely suggest the Sarrage academy SINCE they are going to bring their brother along to take their minds off graduating the guys before us and actually making plans on how to work things out properly for them.

Mafemukh - Honestly speaking, you have been a great asset to the academy and the CEO never grasped the concept of Mr.Mark Murphy to be the genius of the academy. Thank you for sharing the operation charactaristics of JAR and how they operate.

Truthful - I would really like to thank you on your out-beam of valuable information and I sincerely do give you credit for every word you wrote. Bravo 7aboob!


Last but not least.....Sarragian Academy is definitely amazing. I HEARD that both sisters have credit cards with 10K USD at their disposal. As I have mentioned earlier as well is that their brother is coming.

Some more issue from my side as a student, I had a piece of clothing stolen from me red handed.

1) We switched buildings 3 times and once I forgot one of my winter clothing piece that I got as a gift from my father in the 1st building and the good old cleaners took it and gave it to Hussain Obeidat.

2) Cleaning guys NOTIFY+REMIND me that THEY gave my belonging to Hussain Obediat and he has it in the office and I can pick it up ANYTIME I feel comfortable.

3) When I was packing my stuff to leave the academy, I call up Hussain Obeidat and ask him politely about my belonging and he says that he doesn't have anything, I remind him about the whole story for a whole minute and then he remembers and he says that he denies its existence in his office. He then asks me to call him after 5minutes, so I did. He says that he left my belonging in the TOILET and now its lost.

4) I demand a refund and he replies rudely "OK" and I ask him again, do I come and collect my money now and he says that he doesn't have any money for me.


PS. I forgot to mention somthing regarding my flight training with one of the female instructors that refused to show me how to SIDE-SLIP because she thought it was too dangerous and risky AND she wasn't that great in the Cessna as well.


What I wrote has nothing to do with the current discussion clearly but is only a way to show other members that read and do not post on how the academy operates and treats some of the students/instructors regarding their attitude and actions. This is only a small part of the community as I used to be ONE out of 120+students.

[Striker54]

What I truly found hilarious when I came to Bahrain is when I attended the NYIT car show and saw AYLA in the projector screen as well as the raffle bag was AFL/Ayla. Quite ironic, a university going to another university for publicity.

NYIT is the next satellite location for Ayla, huh??? Land the Remus in the parking lot!

[Truthful]

Devil, Mike.Park, Scorpion777 and Striker54 I thank you all. Now I am doing research on the AIDS maintenence and Safety programme and you will soon hear somthing alarming in this regard.

[goneeast]

Just out of interest, I have a copy of the Gulf Air Audit checklist for FTO's.
It states that the Head of Training :
Shall have extensive experience in training AS A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR for professional (i.e NOT PPL) pilot licences and possess sound manegerial capability. The HT shall hold or have held, in 3 years prior to first appointment as a HT, a professional pilot licence and rating(s) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1, related to the flying course being conducted.

I shall say no more.

[Chuck Y]

Regarding the Gulf Air audit, it was a total joke. The guys that went down were wined & dined & given other incentives to recommend Ayla. The BDB rep, you know who I mean-the supposedly religious guy, has been making shady deals with flying schools in order to get his sons free or heavily discounted courses.
The whole thing is one big house of cards waiting for the slightest jolt & it will all come down. I believe that even the VP Training in GF has some portion of the blame also. But let's see if there will be any justice for these people who have no regard for people's lives.

[icecream_pilot]

Hi all ,

This thread is getting worst day by day :eek:

Anyway just wanted to let you know guyz that everyone is aware of what's going in Ayla.

* On my way back to Amman was sitting next to this guy who was reading an aviation book...So we started talking and told him that i was a trainee pilot in Ayla...He suddenly looked at me and told me "How is the **** going there????"...I was shocked...Then he was kind of making fun "goodluck on finishing your hours with 7 cessnas ahahahah "

* Heard guyz in the USA recommanding people not to go there :bored:

I agree the rates are very high for what we get 380$$$ solo 480 $$$ Dual

I'm not very happy from the missions we get, training area and come back WTF !!!

But this once again it's not the academy, it's the :mad: country , No airspace , Everything is forbidden ( If you take your camera with u onboard the Famous dispatcher will say La2 it's not allowed )

Anyway i'm not hear to screw everything because at the end we will graduate from there so there is no point...Yes indeed things are not perfect but maybe the CEO could listen a bit more to our ideas (of course after making research on it) and involve more the students in FI meetings, procedures etc,,,,SO WE KNOW WHATS GOING ON !!!!!!

Cheers

[Mike.Park]

I'm not very happy from the missions we get, training area and come back WTF !!!

If you don't mind me asking, what other airports do you guys land at as part of your flight training? For example, your qualifying cross-country flights?

[Striker54]

goneeast - Could you possibly scan the GulfAir Audit checklist and upload it.

icecream_pilot - You should know by now that Ayla isn't about standards or lining up themselves with airliners. It's all about pay the cost to be out there, a simple matter of which students in Charlie wanted to fly together as PF and PNF and he said "no the CARC doesn't allow it", What a sleezy way of saying no but I believe that in the CARC regulations it is allowed to do so. So, no matter what you do and how much you fight for your rights you will only get what you barely want. By the way, you can do whatever you want in JW and you can go X-C to Amman or WHEREVER you want and yes that includes Sharm Al Shaikh, Greece and even BAHRAIN, you can fly the airplane as any ordinary person but file your trip to Bahrain as IFR. The only problem is that the CEO doesn't want you to do any of this!

[icecream_pilot]

Mike.Park : In the beginning it was just this training area called JW ( Juliet West ) and Waypoint Jurf....Basically you go there report overhead and come back
That's what they call navigation.Now you can go to Amman and another area called Juffer (used for touch-and-go)...

As my colleague STRIKER54 mentionned we proposed a plan of building hours in dual pilot basis. 2 PPL pilots would do their missions together

But no they say it's not allowed !!! MY :mad:...There is no where on earth that says a PPL holder can't fly with someone...At the end it means you have nothing or they don't trust you or even trust the safety the academy has...

Come on i contacted CARC and even them couldn't give me a proper answer they don't even know what's going on...Have a look at their website all the links are ERROR 404 NOT FOUND

I wish someone could help and clarify all that so one day those people could shut their mouths

Happy and safe flying to all

[Mike.Park]

Thanks for the info Icecream_pilot.

Isnt it an ICAO requirement that you fly solo and land at two aerodromes different to that of your point of departure? From what I remember, this is considered your qualifying cross country flight and you won't get your PPL without doing so!

So for example AQJ (departure) -> Airport One -> Airport Two -> AQJ (Return)

[icecream_pilot]

It Suppose to be that way but you are in Jordan man !!!!

To let 2 PPL fly they cannot it's not allowed...but to avoid x-country flights and landing at 2 diff airports this is ALLOWED :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Truthful]

x-country
Thanks for the info Icecream_pilot.

Isnt it an ICAO requirement that you fly solo and land at two aerodromes different to that of your point of departure? From what I remember, this is considered your qualifying cross country flight and you won't get your PPL without doing so!

So for example AQJ (departure) -> Airport One -> Airport Two -> AQJ (Return)


Of course you are absolutely right but here in AAA there are six, out of eight GIs, un-licenced. One requirement for taking PPL and CPL exam is that every GI will sign on the record form of every student for the subject which he has taught them. Similarly an IGI must teach them IR, however presently no IGI is there in AAA. Also, the simulator installed in Ground School is un-licenced and un-certified but still it is being used to impart training to the students. CARC know all these shortfalls but still it is silent. If tomorrow one students of AAA is involved in a serious accident in future, then the accident investigators will have to check all these records of the pilot concerned. Now my question is that who will then be responsible for these shortfalls in the training of that student???????

I mean to say that violation of rules in AAA = AIDS is a normal phenomenon with the help of feloos and wasta. Otherwise for x-country flight, apart from landing at an airfield other than departure, even the minimum distance between the two is also specified.

[Truthful]

I have already said that all ingredients for a fatal accident are readily available at AIDS. One of the under training CFIs showed her ignorance when Chief Instructor told her to show him Lazy 8 maneouvre. One more is famous for porpoising after touch down. There is no cocept of a crew chief while statrting engines and seeing off the pilots while the students will learn the Marshalling signals when they join an airliners.

While carrying maintenance the technicians are absolutely oblivious of blanking the hoses and pipes. If you talk to the Maintenance Director about this, he gives you a blank look. Cessna is a forgiving aircraft but for how long? Lets see & wait about these un-safe maintenance practices. However I am likely to take the maintenance issues in detail very soon.

In my career I remember one fatal accident. The Academy record of the deceased pilot showed that that academy was the main contributor towards that fatal accident.

So AAA will be held responsible for its lapses even if one of its students is involved in such an accident in his future assignement. At that very time these un-licenced GIs, DCGI and CGI may be resting in peace as they are even now superannuated. So CEO and HoT will have to bear all the blames being shared by CARC as Regulatory Authority.

[Mike.Park]

http://i43.tinypic.com/11tlyk1.jpg

[ebrahime]

Honestly, whatever you guys have mentioned earlier is indeed the plain truth of AAA, but think about it thoroughly, is it really the CEO mistake???!!! He is only a businessman looking after his own interest, and seeking a huge multi-digit number to appear in his account balance, just like any businessman. The only difference here is the way any businessman would create an image and build a reputation for his business. The only difference is whether honesty, ethics and humanity were placed into consideration when recruiting the heavily loan back-loaded cadets.
I was personally astonished by the well refined and polished image that AAA marketing manager presented AAA to me. Without a second thought I found myself on the plane dreaming about all the fake promises I have been bombarded with. Promises which made me resign a great job, decline an amazing scholarship and ditch a business project with good potential.
Luckily, for AAA CEO, he launched a whole “propaganda” about the academy and managed to fool good number of people, but sadly for him, “He believed it”.
I remember “after spending more than five months doing basically nothing except PPL ground school (which was a complete joke as everyone had the answers before getting the tests), and just after started my first flying lesson with a bullying master that calls himself an instructor” in a totally ridiculous email response from AAA CEO for a farewell email I’ve sent to everyone in AAA I quote “we have provided you with lap-top, accommodation and social activities so if you couldn’t make it in here you would not make it anywhere else” . Now guess what, in 2 months I managed to get my JAR-PPLfrom Scotland at cheaper price, higher experience (frost, rain, turbulence, MATZ crossing, SVFR and real X-country flying) and along with professional radio qualification.
Despite all the hatred accumulated Deep inside of me, I hope everything goes right for AAA, only because I think that their cadets have and still suffering enough in term of time wasted and financial liabilities that cadets and their families would have to face, liabilities which would go worst if any further delays have taken place by either AAA or GF.

[Mike.Park]

is it really the CEO mistake???!!! He is only a businessmanIt's no longer "business" when the little outfit starts breaking laws to save a few bucks.. especially in the world of aviation where these laws are safeguards to maintain minimum levels of safety & standards. From what I've been reading of Ayla Aviation on PPRuNE, if indeed factual, this school would have been shut down or suspended a long time ago if it were operating anywhere else in the world.

Congratulations on getting your JAA-PPL though. Welcome to the club!
I got my JAA-PPL in the south of England in a little more congested airspace... London TMA just above my head! :}

[mmatalla]

My Name is Marwan Atalla, and I am the CEO of Ayla Aviation Academy. I am here to answer any questions or concerns anyone has, provided they are professional issues, addressed in a professional manner. Remember, the first P in PPRUNE stands for professional, so let's all try keep it that way.

For obvious reasons, i will not reply to rude & offensive messages, silly stories about credit cards and shoping, nor get into subjective, pointless arguments.

But i am happy to answer factual questions or address matters that concern anyone interested enough to ask about Ayla.

[Mike.Park]

It's been 17 months since the first Ayla Aviation thread started,
363 messages posted so far,
and a whopping 14,051 page views in total.


Welcome to the forums Marwan! Took you long enough! :ok:

[Subzero-911]

Hi guys,
My story in brief ,
I went to Jordan as my aim to study and be a pilot in my country airline so I chose ayla as this school is near my home and the marketing guys did there jobs very well to convince me that ayla is a very professional flight school and as you know we are Bahraini are so kind people so I believed them and I went to Alaqaba to do the acceptation exam and the medical test and I passed both these test but unfortunately ayla doesn't passed my physical exam..
Anyway,
I saw my friend there and he was already doing the course then I asked him about the school but he didn’t recommend the academy at all also he told me a very bad story about some Jordanians people had attacked the students accommodation and thread some of the students which mean the place is not safe to study on it:}, and every day new roles and new change in everything and everywhere:mad:, one more thing that the student are playing wing eleven(Play station) instead doing some flying by the Cessna which mean they are not flying and really the student situation were bloody hard ..
By the way,
I was told that the license which they offered is JAA. But after I argued with them until they told me that the license is JAA which means Jordan Aviation Authorize...:ugh:

Then I came back to Bahrain and I recalculate my plan then I saw myself here in Australia with life style of (No Worries Mate):cool:
After all what I heard and what I have been seen here I don’t feel sorry at all about my decision about students in ayla at all.:=
I wish all the best for all.:ok:

[icecream_pilot]

ayla doesn't passed my physical exam..

What do u mean by that ?

RGDS

[mmatalla]

Dear subzero-911. I am not sure why you did not pass your physical exam, but i can assure you it had nothing to do with Ayla. Physical exams (know as medical) are done by an aviation doctor approved by the Civil Aviation Regulatory Comission "CARC". There is no such thing as Jordan Aviation Authority by the way. it used to be the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and now it is known as CARC.

Ayla does use a JAA (Joint Aviation Authority) ground school syllabus. it is NOT JAA approved, but JAA based which was clearly stated in our marketing material and our web site. Nevertheless, to completely avoid any possible confusion, we have completly removed any reference to "JAA" from our web site and brochure.

Yes, some of our cadets do have playstations. they also have ipods and laptops. But i can assure you they fly more than any other academy in the region due to the fact that we are located in a very quiet airport, with very good year round weather, and the highest instructor to cadet ratio in teh region (4 to 1). in fact, except for class delta which was delayed due to a major fleet change, each one of our courses graduated on schedule, and we continue to be on schedule so far. if and when delays occur (something every safe pilot should understand), we do our best to cope, so long as it does not compromise safety or quality of training. i would rather delay a class than rush them through, even though it is more expensive for the academy as we have a fixed price contract.

Anyways, I wish you luck in Australia. i just finished watching the movie "Australia" with Nicole Kidman, and i envy you "mate".

[mmatalla]

Dear Mike.Park;

you are absolutly right. i should have done this a long time ago.

i guess i was too busy trying to build a world class academy.

anyways, i am here now, and ready to answer any serious questions.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear Suzero-911;

I am not sure why you did not pass your physical (which is commonly known as medical), but i assure you it was not Ayla. These tests are usualy performed by approved aviation doctors.

For your information, JAA stands for Joint Aviation Authority, not Jordan Aviation Authority. In Jordan, the regulatory body is known as the Civil Aviation Regulatory Comission (CARC). Our Ground Syllabus is a JAA syllabus, but it is not JAA approved. Our marketing material and web site clearly stated that our ground school is JAA based, and that the license is issued by CARC. Nevertheless, to avoid any confusion, we have completely removed all reference to JAA from our web site and material.

Yes, some of our cadets have playstations. Some have iPods, some have guitars, and some have TV's. All, fortunately, legal forms of entertainment. However, i assure you it does not interfere with their flying. in fact, we fly more hours per day per aircraft that anyone else, due to the fact that we are located in an uncongested airport, with fairly good year round weather.

Anyways, i wish you luck in Australia. Just saw the movie "Australia" with Nicole Kidman. I envy you "mate".

[SilveR5]

Mr. Atalla..

1) JAA license at AAA...some past students were seduced by your false claims and got trapped...I feel sorry for them..and obviously your marketing guy has stopped using that claim after it has been busted! now are there any REAL plans to grant JAA license in the near future? explain it.

2) MPL program had to be initiated in 2008 according to your pervious announcements...what took you so long?! and in case you still think you are going to make it happen, what are your new promises about it?

Now if you don't have answers for the above 2 questions, or if you don't wish to answer them, then you've got to answer the forthcoming 2!!

3) If we assume that everything is just fine at your academy, why do you think all those guys are attacking you and your people? and guess what...their batteries are still supercharged with loads of details about things happening out there..sometimes people are challenging you or anybody to falsify what they have said...bullets could be found buried into anything that carries your logo! what do you say?

4) Since you have finally made your way to pprune, what is it that you can tell to convince the guys here that your academy is the right place?

Thanks

[Subzero-911]

Icecram piolt sorry for that and below my explanation
ayla doesn't passed my physical exam= when I saw ayla in real I change my ideal about this school.(physically or realistic).

Marwan, could you please give me idea about the (people had attacked the students accommodation and thread some of the students !
FYI.I am here not to urge with any one, I just said what I saw and from my experince and what happened with me.

Thanks and regard

[mmatalla]

Dear Subzero-911;

one of the ayla buildings is located next to a house with a very conservative family. the people living in the house next door would see our cadets in shorts and t-shirts, hanging out on the balcony which overlooks the house, sometime playing music, and they became a little concerned. they tried to complain to the cadets, but it was not taken seriously. one day, a couple of teenage boys from the house next door tried to pick a fight with the cadets, and threw a stone and broke a window. fortunately no one was hurt.

we immidiately filed a complaint, and met with the police chief, who arranged for a meeting between myself, the cadets, and the parents of the kids next door. the parents were extremely apologetic and ashamed of what their kids had done, and they promised to take care of our cadets as if they were their own kids. they even invited them to lunch for them the next day. however, our cadets were not comfortable staying their, so we moved them to another building the next day, and coverted the old building into a staff housing facility.

in my view, it was just a couple of teenage kids probably a little envious of our guys, probably with a little too much testosterone. i did not feel arresting the kids would do any good (in fact i felt it would only escalate matters), but i told our cadets it was their decision. they decided to drop the charges.

[mmatalla]

Dear SilveR5;

Like i said, i am always happy to answer serious questions, so please feel free.

1. Our material stated clearly that our syllabus is JAA based, not JAA approved, and that the license is a CARC license. One would assume a high school graduate with reasonable english could distinguish the two. nevertheless, we decided to remove all reference to JAA from our material to be 100% on the safe side. the cadets that felt they were mislead were offered a refund. two of them had been at Ayla just over two weeks, and they received a 100% refund. the rest decided to stay.

We do have plans to try and get JAA approval for our groudn school, but we cannot promise a timeline yet.

2. MPL is based on a partnership between an airline and an FTO. An FTO cannot do an MPL program on it's own because the course depends on the partner airlines' SOP's. We were ready to launch MPL, but our partner airline decided (for financial reasons) to delay it. we intend to use the time to develop our MPL program even more.

3. I believe it is a combination of anger and frustration. perhaps some x-employees who are disgruntled, perhaps some x-cadets who were delayed and decided to leave (contrary to their sponsor airlines' advice). perhaps some envy from competitors. hard to tell why people become so rude and offensive. If Ayla was that bad, why are they taking so much time and making so much effort to badger us....they should be happy that they are no longer here and move on, no?

4. My advice to anyone is to VISIT Ayla. i will personaly show you around, and you can meet and interview our ground and flight instrutors, our staff, and our cadets. you can inspect our syllabus & manuals, and fly our simulators. see our housing facilities. in fact, you should do this no matter where you decided to study. it is the best investment you will ever make.

Marwan

[Ayla]

mmatalla,

Like it or not the CARC licence is not highly regarded throughout the world and certainly not in the Gulf States, perhaps a legacy from questionable licencing issue in the past.

The aim for the student is to gain employment at the end of their training, and certainly with a JAA or CASA Licence those chances are better than with a CARC licence.

With the euro and pound exchange rate againist the dollar, students can get a JAA /CASA ATPL for less than the price of your CARC CPL/IR course! 80,000 US at todays exchange rate is over 54,000 UK Pounds!

The school you own in the UK is offering a JAA ATPL for just over 51000 UK pounds including MCC!

[mmatalla]

Dear Ayla;

You are correct in some respect but we do not rely soley on the CARC license. we are an approved Gulf Air training center (the only one so far in Jordan), and we are currently seeking approval from three other airlines in the region.

Of course, anyone who specificaly wants a JAA license is directed to our UK flight school www.flyaft.com (http://www.flyaft.com)

Marwan

[Ayla]

Dear mmatalla

What exactly does being an approved Gulf Air Training Centre mean for the students, and not just Bahraini students.

Are Gulf Air prepared to take students of any nationality (subject to them passing normal entry requirements) into their airline if they are trained at Ayla?

How many students have they accepted from you who were not Bahraini's and not under BDB sponsorship

What percentage of Bahrain students that you have graduated have been employed by Gulf Air.

[EHBH]

AYLA, Mr. Marwan is trageting the Bahraini community not anyone else..
his replies and answeres are all subjected to Bahraini wannabe cadets AND NOT YOU.

Mr. Marwan sorry but GF and BDB and BAH GOV is concered about their BAHiz students more than your or anyone else academy.

And by the way Ayla is not the only approved academy by GF, wider and deeper your researches.

And for your info. Ayla could be still linked with a week hair to GF approval but not to BDB ( which should be no. 1 concern for you ) anymore.

I am a GULF NATIONAL CITIZEN and I can easly get a job in any airline in the Gulf with any licence without the Ayla approved thing.

If you want to approve something agaisnt that, please provide, mention how many Bahrain students will join Ayla in 09 sponsord by BDB or BAH AIR or GF ( I MEAN CADETS ).

Thanks

[mmatalla]

Dear Ayla and EHBH;

Allow me to clarify. Ayla is approved by Gulf Air means that any Ayla graduate can get a job with Gulf Air. This does not mean they are guaranteed a job, just that they could get a job if they pass all the requirements and Gulf Air wants them. A graduate from any other academy in Jordan (besides Ayla) can still work for Gulf Air if they want to hire him, but he/she will need to take an approved JAA ATPL course. Ayla offers this course and we have already graduated a class of Bahraini Pilots who are now first officers at Gulf Air. I checked as late as last week, andwe are the only Academy in Jordan approved by Gulf Air. The only other one, QAC, is in Qatar.

BDB is only a financer, but they have no say or opinion on where the cadets train. In fact, the CEO of BDB was very clear in his meetings with us that BDB does not try to direct the cadets in any way, and that they leave that decision to the cadet(s). I beleive this is a very wise policy.

The BDB finance scheme that is backed by the Bahraini Government (and now has the attention of the Bahrain Labor Fund) is extremely progressive, and i admire them for it. For obvious reasons, it is only available for Bahrainis.

Although we market regionaly, the majority of our cadets are form Bahrain (approx 60%). The rest are from Jordan and other countries in the region.

I hope i have answered everything.

[Ayla]

So Even with Gulf Air there is no advantage of getting a CARC licence from Ayla over a JAA ATPL. However the JAA ATPL holder has much better prospects at many other Airlines than with a CARC licence, and it's cheaper!

[mmatalla]

If the objective is to get a JAA license, then we are happy to offer it at AFT. However, the price is still higher than Ayla, even after the decline of the Euro/Pound. So i doubt that you can get a JAA license for less than what you would pay at Ayla, but i will research this and let you know.

But please keep in mind what I said earlier; reasearching your training should go far beyond PPRUNE and a Google Search. If you can afford it, visit the school(s). If you can't, as to speak to graduates and/or instructors. Talk to the airline(s) you are considering. Gather as much information as possible before taking this very important decision.

[Ayla]

mmatalla

If it helps the prices I used are from the Ayla and AFT Websites utilising XE Currency Converter.

I know that a JAA ATPL Licence is easy to convert to a GCAA licence and QCAA licence as well as most other Gulf Countries, not so with a CARC licence.

Why do Kuwait Airlines and previously Oman Air send there cadet pilots to AFT and not Ayla? I can only presume it's a JAA Licence they want.

[Mike.Park]

i guess i was too busy trying to build a world class academy.

Mr Atalla,

( i ) As other world class academies are doing, is Ayla Aviation willing to share employment statistics with your prospective customers? What percentage of your self-sponsored cadets have successfully gained employment as First Officers with the airliners?

( ii ) Gulf Air "approval" - was this not a private internal audit that Gulf Air conducts with anyone they wish to do business with in the future? I believe you may have twisted and misrepresented what was simply an internal audit. Gulf Air is not a regulatory body, nor are they an organization that independently assures minimum levels of quality and/or standards. They're a commercial airline!

If you have a look at the current Gulf Air ab-initio vacancies (http://www.gulfaircareers.com/careers/gulfair/VacancyDetail.aspx?VacancyID=11340) on their website, there is no suggestion that Ayla Aviation graduates stand a better chance of gaining employment with the carrier. There is also no suggestion that you must have gained your CPL/IR from a Gulf Air "approved" FTO.

Mike

[mmatalla]

Thank you once again for allowing me to clarify.

1. We are two years old, with about 60 graduates, 40 of which did a bridge course. So the statistcs would be misleading. I will neverthless look into this and publish the findings.

2. Indeed it was an audit by Gulf Air, followed by an audit/inspection by the Bahrain Civil Aviation Authority. For some reason, you seem to be trying very hard to prove that we are misleading people, but i assure you we are not. I am happy to e-mail you copies of our approvals and put you in touch with Gulf Air if you wish to verify the facts.

3. I cannot comment on what Gulf Air puts on their web site, but like i said, anyone wishing to make a decision like this should do his/her homework, including get in touch with the airlines to ask about Ayla or any other academy.

Thank you once again Mike.

[mmatalla]

I used the same web site you did to convert, and GBP 74,000 came out to USD 109,000. I think you may have coverted the backwards, which might explain the $50,000 figure.

Yes, you are correct. Oman Air and Kuwait Airlines use AFT because they require a JAA license or equivalent. We do plan to get audited by both of these Airlines/Countries soon, and hopefully become approved by them. We are also working closely with CARC in Jordan who have taken a decision to convert to a JAA system. They will start with maintenance facilities, and work their way to Flight Schools.

I realize these things take time, but Ayla is in this for the long run. Our commitment and determinition to establish a world class academy gets stronger by the day.

"The strongest trees are the ones that encouter the highest winds".

[Ayla]

mmatalla

I think it is you who has done the sums wrong.

From the AFT Website the total AFT Fees for a JAA ATPL with MCC are 51,665 Pounds. You have included 9041.38 Pounds for VAT which is not paid by overseas students. If you include CAA exam fees of 3690 Pounds, the total cost of the course to an overseas student is 55,345 Pounds excluding accomodation.

On the Ayla website your CPL/IR Course is advertised at 80,000US. At todays conversion rate of . 6675 pounds = 1 dollar, your course costs 80,000 x .6675 = 54,204 Pounds excluding accomodation.

You offer the MCC course at 2500 pounds which if taken up by an Ayla student comes to a total cost of 56,704 Pounds.

Some young trees get blown down!

[Mike.Park]

Ayla,

I don't think AFT should be used in comparison to AAA. Why? For the simple reason that AFT is a UK/JAA approved flight school - AAA on the other hand is not. Your comparing apples & pears.

A better comparison would be look at other FTOs that are also based in non-JAA member states such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada etc.

There are some fantastic flight schools in those countries with heritage, operational history, and proven track records.

All those non-JAA based FTOs issue ICAO licences by their respected national aviation authorities. How do the course fees of those academies compare to that of Ayla Aviation?

If the majority (60%) of Ayla Aviation's student body come from Bahrain, lets use the Bahraini Dinar as an example here. The Bahraini Dinar (BHD) is pegged to the US dollar.

Ayla's course fees = $90,000 USD which equates to BHD 34,000

What would 34,000 Bahraini Dinars buy you elsewhere in the world at today's exchange rates?

In Australia: 131,500 Australian Dollars

In New Zealand: 159,000 New Zealand Dollars

In South Africa: 876,428 South African Rand

In Canada: 110,200 Canadian Dollars

You'll probably find that if you take your 34,000 Dinars to any of those countries, you could train TWO pilots for the same price!

Now here is the big question. Does Ayla Aviation offer value for money?

[mmatalla]

Thank you Ayla and Mike for your comments. Yes, I believe Ayla Aviation Academy offers value for money, and i invite you to come visit us to see for yourselves. However, as i stated earlier, i prefer to avoid subjective dicussions about "value for money" or comparing "apples & pears" because these are personal opinions.

My advice remains the same as before - anyone interested in a career in aviation should do his/her homework first. PPRUNE is a rumours network, and may be misused by people with an axe to grind, so I encourage people to widen their scope and rely on themselves to make the right choice.

At Ayla, we have open days every week, and people are welcome to visit us, talk to our instrcutors, staff and cadets. Atlantic Flight Training in the UK is also owned by the same group, and it offers a JAA license, as well as MCC and JOT courses.

I remain happy to address any other factual questions.

[KFTW]

Hi,
Is there job for JAA FI?What r the requirement and how much they pay to (700TT,500PIC,300 instructor hour)instructor?

Thanks in advance,

Regards,
KFTW

[Ayla]

Mike,
My aim was to point out that a student can can get a JAA ATPL licence for the same price as Ayla's CARC licence.

I use AFT figures because mmatalla cannot refute them as they are from his own company.

In my opinion better value can be obtained in a number of different schools around the world, especially with the current exchange rate.

I have avoided talking about quality because It is subjective , but cost between schools is not subjective, nor is the licence you are issued with.

[mmatalla]

Dear KFTW;

Thank you for your inquiry. About 50% of our Instructors are JAA licenced and we do hire JAA FI's. Please send your resume to [email protected] and we would be happy to review it.

[mmatalla]

Our philosophy is that cost is subjective when it comes to education. Ayla's moto is "Pilots Empowered", and our basic premise is that we train captains, not just pilots. The difference, of course, is leadership.

So in addition to our comprehensive and rigorous Ground and Flight School syllabi, we work on developing the "soft skills" of the cadets. We have a full time leadership consultant on staff, and we arrange for regular sports activities such as soccer, volleyball & other water sports (please see our monthly newsletter on our web site).

We also have an extremely diverse group of instructors from the UK, USA, Spain, Pakistan, Jordan and Canada, which benifits our cadets. This, of course, is in addition to the fact that we provide free laptops & wireless internet access throughout our facilities.

Of course, I must mention the fact that we have the most modern fleet of aircraft in Jordan.

Quote of the week: "If you believe education is expensive, try ignorance"....

[Ayla]

mmatalla

Surely the cost of a course is not subjective, it is a fixed determinable amount. What you refer to is value!

I thought you wanted to avoid subjective discussions about value for money!

If you want to do quotes "All that glitters is not gold"

[SilveR5]

well-spoken Ayla :D


Mr. Atalla..the problem is that when it comes to reputation, people never pick up the choice that the opinions are split over it. It becomes rather risky for some1 to go for that kind of choice, which will almost look like a big gamble, knowing that the thing is about 1) huge amount of money to be spent 2) making a decision of one's life time (at first place by joining the unstable airliners career, and then selecting the FTO to get the qualifactions that would represent the main asset for the unexperienced pilot).

As you have said Mr. Atalla, the history of your FTO is only a couple of years old. You should be happy with being approved by GF and Bahrain's CAA...that's fine..but in real world it would be so unrealistic to judge the overall rating for AAA relying on just 2 years of ups and downs. You might argue the word "downs", and that's understood coz it's your own baby at the end.

If I were you, I would first admit that are/were many system flaws have lead to the negativity about AAA. You simply can bring in the proficient people who would really want to help, and let go those who are seriously damaging the reputation and cannot offer your students enough of the flying thing! Only and only then, it's gonna be a real business for you Mister!

Walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

[Mike.Park]

PPRuNe is a rumours network, and may be misused by people with an axe to grind Mr Atalla,

Allot of your students & employees had high hopes for Ayla Aviation. It was an exciting time for all to be involved in a new project with squeaky clean aircraft and facilities. However over time, the cracks began the show and there was a slow and noticeable disintegration of the way things were being done.

It was the human element that started letting the school down, more specifically it's Management. Your employees & students naturally have vested interest in how well the school performs, and when things go wrong, we offered constructive feedback with the hope that you'd take that onboard and make positive changes out of it.

Everybody from students to instructors have questioned your suitability to the job of running an FTO. You used to run an investment firm in Texas then jumped straight into the deep end with running an FTO to which you bring no previous operational background or experience to the table. Your not an ex-airline pilot, you've never run an FTO before, your not ex-RAF pilot, and your not an ex-flight instructor. Your an industry outsider by all accounts!

Your a self proclaimed private pilot running a "commercial" flight school. That means you have never been a customer of your own product.

It's no secret that Ayla Aviation is a sinking ship and allot of people think there is only one way to save it. The day you take a back seat role, and the words 'Under New Management' are proudly displayed on your main website will be the day that people will take new found interest in Ayla Aviation.

PS. Everything from your directors compensation with NEST, to the thousands of dollars you donated to George Bush's campaign, to your court cases in Texas is public information!

[icecream_pilot]

:uhoh: OMG OMG OMG :uhoh:


Houston We have a problem !!!!!!!

[mmatalla]

Thank you all for your feedback.

As I said, I would like to keep this objective and not get drawn into an argument.

Indeed, many mistakes were made along the way, which is quite normal for a new business. One of our mistakes was the choice of aircraft, but we fixed that very quickly. We also took some wrong hiring decisions, and relied on people that could not deliver. Again, I take the blame as CEO. However, we learnt from those mistakes, and corrected them, and I can proudly say we have an extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy. Anyone who wishes to see their bios can contact me by e-mail and I will be happy to share them.

One minor correction – it is true that Ayla is only two years old (young), but AFT has been in business over 10 years.

With regards to my aviation background, I do not believe you need to be a commercial pilot to run a flight school, just like you don’t need to be a pilot to run an airline. In fact, I find my being an outsider a positive. Needless to say, if anyone knows anyone that is more capable, please submit their resume. I assure you I would be delighted to hand over some of my work load.

With regards to my track record, I ran an investment company in Houston for 15 years. We bought and sold companies, one of which I ran myself, and some of which we still own. Like most people in business, lawsuits are inevitable, and we have had our share; some as plaintiffs, and some as defendants. As correctly pointed out, this is public information, and nothing to be ashamed off. To the best of my knowledge, there are no current pending cases.

I did donate to the George Bush campaign some years ago, and I donated to the Barack Obama campaign recently. I am a US citizen, and I consider it a privilege to be able to contribute and to vote.

Back to Ayla. We are very proud of our track record, albeit only two years old. We are proud to have Royal Jordanian as a customer. We are proud of being approved by Gulf Air, and Oman Air (Bridge Course only for Oman Air – abinitio program still pending). We are proud to have arranged and hosted the first MPL conference in the region, and to have phase I of our MPL program approved.

We have some bold plans for 2009, and I am confident that we will achieve them with our team of dedicated instructors and staff.

Marwan

[SilveR5]

We also took some wrong hiring decisions, and relied on people that could not deliver


hmm..I wonder about some really good people that you have let go!



it is true that Ayla is only two years old (young), but AFT has been in business over 10 years.


What's the actual credit that you have gained from AFT?!! you are the one who runs AAA..only!



I do not believe you need to be a commercial pilot to run a flight school


you are right...but do your research again on the reputed and successful schools in Europe...at least there will be somebody as such sitting next door to Mr. CEO



We have some bold plans for 2009


I would be grateful if you share with us the headlines..just the headlines...you must have done neat forecasts...I will be happy to see them happening...and on next christmas eve, we will be playing darts!

Thank you

[Mike.Park]

Like most people in business, lawsuits are inevitable, and we have had our share

Lets look at the cheesy promotional video (http://www.aylaaviation.com/flashvideo.html) hosted on Ayla's website.

( i ) Copyright infringement - Did Ayla Aviation acquire permission and pay royalties to Jive Records to use R Kelly's soundtrack on your promotional video?

( ii ) Misrepresentation - Most of the video promotes flight training in an aircraft that Ayla no longer operates.

I smell an incoming cease & desist letter.

[Ayla]

Scorpion,

I see you still have your crayons, any chance of losing the colour as it really distracts from anything you have to say.

It was me who complained about your previous post that was subsequently removed. You do nothing for the case of debate about Ayla Aviation Academy with posts which involve libel and sexual innuendo, in fact it distracts from people taking this thread seriously.

Mr Atalla must be delighted every time you post!

[mafemukh]

I think Klubman, Gilderoy, Goneeast and I have spoken most eloquently to AAA's track record - see previous posts - and there is no need to reiterate the poor executive decision-making that has led directly to the emotive nature of this forum (nice summary tho' Mike.Park, #341). :ugh:
As to the "extremely capable and dedicated team of ground and flight instructors at the academy", one only asks... but for how long?
How long is it before the next macho rush-of-blood initiates the next round of firings of the next group of the purportedly unsuitable? In fact, now being on the receiving side of cv's and requests for advice, I know several members of this team are looking for jobs elsewhere - worry not, I don't blame you and I will not name you! :D

[EHBH]

Mr. Matalla may I now why you are not giving back the 2nd payment to the students who left Ayla with a PPL only ?

You have promised them infront of everybody and your staff and we have the prove and maybe GF that you will not charge them for the extra hours and especially the Conversion hours from DA40 to C172, which was due to your mistake ( as you mentioned ).

1> Why you are charging your students for your mistakes?? ANSWER IT PLS
2> Why you are not returning back their money ?? ANSWER IT PLS

[klubman]

How many Flight Instructors, and how many Ground Instructors are currently employed at AAA?

Of those numbers, how many were employed at AAA 12 months ago?

Or, to put it another way, what has been the instructor turnover in 2008?

Thank you.

[mmatalla]

Dear EHBH;

The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry.

Obviously, it owuld not be appropriate for me to discuss with you specific financial charges between a particular cadet and the academy without his/her permission. However, if anyone has an issue, please have them contact me or accounting and they will be given a complete and detailed summary of their account. This is their legal right and our obligation.

I hope this helps.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear klubman;

we have 14 flight instructors and 8 ground instructors. some have been with us for two years, some for a few months.

our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast and continuously raising it's standards.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear SilveR5;

You are absoluetly correct. A good CEO must suround himself with people with solid aviation bakgrounds. I am proud of our CFI and our CGI, as well as every single employee at Ayla.

I cannot share our 2009 plan with you, but keep an eye on the news section of our web site.

Thank you for your other comments but i guess that remains to be seen.

Marwan

[Ayla]

mmatalla,

You do not seem to have answered Klubmans question in full about turnover of staff. How do you know what the industry norm is, is there some published data on this you would care to share?

Also EHBH raises the issue of extra hours flown by the student due to you having to change fleet, surely you allowed some hours at Ayla's expense for this.

You promised some data on how many non sponsored students have gained employment, any update?

[klubman]

Thank you, Ayla.

Some clarification please, mmatalla. A simple question. Of the 14 Flight Instructors and 8 Ground Instructors, how many have been employed at AAA for less than 12 months?

[EHBH]

matalla doesn’t have answer for my questions too.

To all wannabe pilots who might plan to join Ayla,

You will be currently trained on C172, if the management decides to change the fleet all the sudden, don't be happy, because you will be charged 1000z of $.

MARWAN don't forget what you said '' we never asked anyone to pay for the conversions hours ''

Guys that’s how Ayla makes money!!!!

: Charging the cadets the conversion and extra hours caused by managerial level mistakes.
Charging the cadets huge and massive amounts of fake electricity bills.
Charging the cadets for having a cup of tea or coffee
Imagine you pay 100 000 $ and they charge you for coffee.

Anyway Mr., We will contact Accounts and if we face anything negative or different than what you said here in the forum ( as usual )

We will go to the locations you've visited in Bahrain and show them all what we have. ( THink ) will they beleive YOU the stranger the businessman who's after a complete profit, or US their relatives!!

Don't play with fire it might burn you.

Believe that everything is documented.

A successful manager should try his /her best to gain his customers and not to make them enemies.

BTW to all posters and viewers all information mentioned in this thread regarding AYLA are 100% correct, Info are obtained from Staff, Cadets Current and Ex.


Marwan I think you know me very well and how factual person I am, I was the 1st guy who left your business, and after 2 weeks 10 cadets left as well, they are my best friends, Now I am in AUS I paid here almost half what I had to pay you, they offered me better package than you too, I am trying my best to convince the remaining E to join my academy, some are leaving soon.

[EHBH]

klubman

Instructors, Staff and Cadets are leaving on monthly bases
most of them are kicked out.

If you want to contact them, I can provide you with their emails and contact numbers.

[PPRuNe Towers]

While it's question time for mmatalla:

Is it true you have told students you will track down any posters on PPRuNe?

Is it true you claimed you would simply offer us huge amounts of money and would get the information from PPRuNe?

Your answers to these questions are eagerly awaited by all.

Rob

[Striker54]

"But i can assure you they fly more than any other academy in the region due to the fact that we are located in a very quiet airport"

Firstly, welcome to the forums Mr.Atalla after a very long time. I hope that you're doing well.

Regarding the earlier post that I have outlined in red, I would like to comment on it as a statement that is not true. Possibly the news that you got was falsely pledged to you because when I left Ayla I had 62hours in my log book and now I have around 80+ which I have gained in 1 week and 2 days which also includes the extreme heavy traffic.

I would like to congratulate Ebrahime for his decision and his license. How I wish I went to Scotland or wherever.

Regarding the whole Gulf Air approval issue that you have brought up, from which official did you get that information from if I may ask, I would understand if it is calssified information. There is a lot of contradicting from Ayla and Gulf Air's side, each company is saying something else.

Well, I can't add up more to what my buddy Mike has stated earlier in all of his posts

"it is NOT JAA approved, but JAA based which was clearly stated in our marketing material and our web site."

Your marketing people had a lack of communication skills when it came to this issue because a sum of people who did not have a proper background were pulled into believing stuff that were not true. I am pretty sure that this issue is well done from it as your ex-marketing manager is no longer part of AAA.

"except for class delta which was delayed due to a major fleet change"

All of us know that this is not the only reason, Mr. Atallah.

"(something every safe pilot should understand), we do our best to cope, so long as it does not compromise safety or quality of training."

It's comforting that you brought up the safety issue. It's true but we used to have SPLs and we had FI next to us. FIs are qualified to fly planes that operate normally but could suddenly catch a flame but I would really to thank you for what you have done when you made the fleet change decision but what really leaves me in a dilemma is that even after all of that has happened you allowed class Charlie to fly the same planes that suffered from the same problems to fly solo with their PPL only while the FI has a lot more.

"Building issue"

There is no denial in what Mr. Atallah has done for us when we were attacked by 14kids with knives, stones and wrenches at 2:00am + they demloished our colleagues scooter. Mr. Atallah came to us the next day and hired a couple of body guards for us 24hours a day and has allocated us into a new building within 94hours.

"I believe it is a combination of anger and frustration. perhaps some x-employees who are disgruntled, perhaps some x-cadets who were delayed and decided to leave (contrary to their sponsor airlines' advice)"

Your thoughts could be wrong regarding this matter. You know me Mr. Atallah and I was possibly the most quiet person in the Academy and I never used to address much and when I did, I did it in a very brief manner. You even gave me that watch after we've helped you. You were good with me, the academy was good with me and I started to be good with my surrounding environment but after things were not going straight and "transparent", every other person started saying something else. We were not the only ones who got frustrated, you did as well when we came back to Aqaba and you didn't let us get into the hangar and then made people follow us all around and were embarrassed infront of our colleagues. So, you see it is a mutual frustration at SOME point LATER.

"Ayla's moto is "Pilots Empowered", and our basic premise is that we train captains, not just pilots."

Regarding this point I will attach it to the previous point, That's a very nice moto but you didn't treat us as captain nor as pilots when the things started to go rough.

"The PPL flying phase is 45 hours. if a cadet takes 50 or 60 then he/she is charged for the difference. I am not sure what you mean by "you are responsible". Our responsibility to to make sure he/she is ready for the PPL check ride, and the Flight Instructor and the CFI decide when a cadet is ready for the check ride, not me. So if a cadet takes longer than the syllabus, then we do charge them for the difference, just like all other FTO's. This is customary and standard practice across the industry."


Mr. Atallah, I know and you know what the truth is when it comes to Delta. Most of class Delta are capable flyers and most of them were ready for their check-rides after they have done their pre-check such as me and my other colleagues but after a silly managerial decision we were put back to flying solo for at least 15hours and we got back to doing a pre-check all over again. Whose fault is it?.

How many times did our checkride got delayed? We got one amazing reply "all of the hotels are fully booked" since when Aqaba got to be Southern France?

As we were taught once by the best instructor in the academy Mr. Mark Murphy "Once you mess up, you're going to mess up in everything else and as we call it in the aviation industry Chain of Errors". This is what you are suffering from Mr. Atallah, as a fellow human to another human I would suggest that you change everyone in your management and have a new start.

[Striker54]

EHBH - The majority have left the academy, it's only a minority that were kicked out in the academy.

Paying to find IP addresses, hmmm that's quite interesting, it's not nice!! Who gave you that idea?

[EHBH]

Majority of the Staff were kicked out and Minority of the Cadets left as personal decision, I have documented statistics.

Tracking IP addresses: PPRUNE is not AYLA, this is a professional forum moderated by professional people, and that thing will never happen.

[Striker54]

Well said EHBH this is a very professional forum... I used to run a forum once and that sort of stuff never used to happen.

One more advice for Mr. Atallah as you said earlier that you train captains and not pilots. How do you expect to train captains when your SOP does not have any spin exercise as the whole of Jordan.

[Striker54]

My colleague Scorpion777 was a bit overwhelmed with rage, please do excuse him.

Anyhow, there is a student that left the academy with only 22hours and did not initiate his solo flights in other words he did not do his first solo...So, all of his hours are considered as Dual but yet he did not receive a refund of the amount he paid of 18,000USD if not more. Would you like to explain why, Mr. Atallah? and when will the student receive his money back?

[mafemukh]

"our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast and continuously raising it's standards."

I have never heard so much BS in all my born days!!!

"our turnover is expected and not unusual in this industry" - 1 x HT, 2 x CFI, 4 x CGI (1 acting), 2 x QM, 3 x Maint. Mgr and this is just the managers!! I have NEVER heard of turnover anywhere in my 2 decades of aviation training that even comes close to this rate! Please edit the phrase to "our turnover is excessive and unprecedented in this industry"

"specialy as a relatively new operation that is growing fast" - if 14FI's and 8GI's are the sum of the instructional staff, then there has been no real growth in student numbers, certainly if standards are to be at least maintained. The airspace and airport were maxed out when I left, especially with the detachments of aircraft from the Amman schools to Aqaba. Edit "specialy as a relatively new operation that has plateau'ed"

"and continuously raising its standards" - here is, I suspect the biggest misrepresentation of them all. It was my experience that standards were constantly being eroded, when syllabi would be changed without generating the necessary documentation, certification of instructors ignored, teaching limitations viewed as an annoyance. Edit "and continuously sacrificing its standards"

In conclusion:
"our turnover is excessive and unprecedented in this industry, specialy as a relatively new operation that has plateau'ed and continuously sacrificed it's standards."
Yeah, that's about right, the operation is relatively new!:rolleyes:

[Striker54]

Well posted mafemukh.

Here is another extra post regarding the whole excessive change when it comes to the SOP. I went to my check-ride and the examiner told me that all of my speeds for the manuevers were wrong and I gave him my SOP and they were all correct and added up to that I did all of my training on the SOP that I had with my instructor; the funny part is they already changed the SOP AGAIN and no one alerted me regarding that matter. Thankfully, it wasn't my fault that no one told me about the new SOP and I alerted the other students to go collect the new SOPs.

[Gulf Flyer]

The collective concerns raised on this Thread about AAA as a ‘fit-for-purpose’ Air Academy should not be addressed to its CEO but to CARC. This aviation regulatory commission certified AAA (AAC No P.S.C. 05) and, as a result, CARC remains duty bound to ensure that AAA operates safely within the scope of its own certification requirements.

However, CARC, in its present form, is not in a position to do so. Just a quick look at its web site will show that it’s riddled with inconsistencies; the Commission attempts to make regulatory references within its own documents that then do not exist. Furthermore, a quick search will show that the mainstay of CARC’s regulations have been ‘cut and pasted’ from FAA regulatory manuals - which become inconclusive in their cross-referencing when CARC attempts to apply these regulations for its own purpose. This is not an unusual practice in Jordan – so, until this is resolved, CARC will remain a commission that has no effective regulatory powers within State.

Not surprising then that when a CARC representative visits one of its certified training establishments to conduct an audit, its certification is not withdrawn when the academy breaches standing regulatory requirements that would normally apply to FAA and JAA approved flight schools. To do so, would expose all of CARC’s shortcomings as a National Aviation Regulatory body.

Once CARC achieves its goal, it will be better placed to audit academies like Ayla, which in turn will serve to realise the expectations of those students who have invested time and money to become commercial pilots.

CARC’S Goal: To achieve world’s best practice in aviation safety, security, environmental, and aviation economic regulation, independently enforcing civil aviation regulations but doing so in ways that are consistent, fair and transparent, and that show flexibility, good judgment and accountability. The CARC additionally aspires to be a leading aviation regulator within the Region.


GF

[Ayla]

Gulf Flyers summation of CARC is spot on, the Regulatory Authorities and Airlines in the Gulf States as well as elsewhere, seem to view it the same way.

The best advice I would give potential students, is to train at an establishment which gives you a licence that is better regarded and with an authority that gives you protection, by regulating flying training establishments properly.

[mmatalla]

Greetings all. There are a number of important questions, but i am unable to answer them because of the holidays. I will do my best to get to them when i am back in Aqaba.

I am not sure who asked, but i assure you we did not offer any money to PPRUNE for any names. It is obvious who is doing the postings, and why they are doing it. All i can say is thank you for making me even more determined and motivated to make Ayla succesful.

Happy 2009 to all, and do keep an eye on our news section.

Marwan

[PPRuNe Towers]

We knew the answer to question 2 as well.

We are far more interested in question 1.

Rob

[icecream_pilot]

I am not sure who asked, but i assure you we did not offer any money to PPRuNe for any names. It is obvious who is doing the postings, and why they are doing it.

Happy new year to all ;)

I just would like to add that if you have a look at the beginning of the thread this was suppose to be an aid for Captain Lin... to come back to ayla.

After sending group emails, threads we still knew should would never come back but "if you don't try you will never know"

There was so much more peace and hapiness when she was CFI and always there to listen and help you !!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway if Mr Atalla wants JAA better think of putting JAA CREWs *:ugh:

[mafemukh]

A Prosperous New Year to All!!
I have said all I am going to say on this forum; I feel that now, not only have I made my point - several times it seems - but also my information is rapidly becoming outdated. I am sure it won't be long before we here from Classes B/C, etc. after they graduate, or even the next wave of unsuitable managers/instructors, so the "good stuff" should be available from them.
Best of Luck,
Mark:ok:

[SilveR5]

I think that any concerns to be discussed here with Mr. Atalla will not lead to significant outcomes..except for one little thing, as Mr. Atalla must have become more aware of an academy with a reputation on the verge (optimistic view!!). Probably that explains why he decided to "give it a go" over here.

Some other flight schools in the region are also aware of the weaknesses at AAA...You know it very well Mr. Atalla that marketing games might be very nasty sometimes....certainly these schools are going to utilize everything "from fact to fiction" to create an opportunity and market themselves around, imposing a serious threat to your business. Broadly speaking, flight schools business in this area of the world is relatively new, and competition will soon get tougher (only if airliners can withstand it financially nowadays!!)...small mistakes will cost massive market share losses for a given FTO...so expect some sharp forks and knives to come after your piece of steak!!

Only time will tell if AAA realizes that things should swiftly improve on each and every scale with a genuine desire to providing long-term quality service.....before it's already too late.

Mr. Atalla, I hope that you don't really disagree with this because I assume that an experienced CEO like you should have prepared himself for the worst scenario anyway..but I hope it's not really far worse than that!!!

[mmatalla]

Dear All;
Of our 14 FI’s, 5 have been with us longer that 18 months (3 JAA, one FAA and one Air Transport Canada). The other 9 have been with us between 4 and 9 months.
Of course, as in all statistics, one can argue forever. I maintain the view that for a two year old academy, in Aqaba (admittedly Aqaba is not for everyone), that has such high goals & standards, is not unusual. Nevertheless, that is subjective, so I will not spend more time arguing it.
Dear Striker. I assure you the reason for your delay was the fleet change. I know you had some unusually bad weather for a couple of weeks, and some unplanned military exercises as well, but the fleet change was definitely the largest factor. Although you asked me to, and although it would have been more profitable for the academy, and although there was nothing to stop us from doing so technically, we still chose NOT to take any chances with you guys and we grounded the fleet for safety reasons. I am very proud of the decision we took (by vote of all Flight Instructors) and I would do the exact same thing again, despite the cost of having lost 10 cadets.
You then came and asked me for a guaranteed graduation date. I said no. I don’t believe any self-respecting academy can ever give you a guaranteed graduation date because by definition that is an unsafe thing to do. You found one, and I wish you the best of luck. I hope the watch I gave you will make you remember your good times at Ayla, and rest assured you and your colleagues are welcome back here anytime.
Dear Ice cream pilot. I am sorry but I cannot comment on Lena’s departure as it was her decision, for personal reasons, and I wish her the best of luck.
With regards to your comments about JAA, we are only using JAA for our Ground School, not our flight school. Our ATPL Ground Instructors all have JAA backgrounds, and I would be happy to send you their bios if you e-mail me.
Dear Ayla. I beg to differ. CARC does not guarantee quality of training. CARC is a regulator, and like any regulator, they set minimum standards. Just like there are good schools, and not so good schools in Europe, the US and all over the world, the same applies to any country. It is the Academy that sets the standard, not the regulator.
At the risk of sounding repetitive, I urge all interested cadets to do their homework. Research, visit, talk to the CFI and CGI, talk to the CEO, and do whatever you can to learn about the academies you are considering before taking this very important decision.
Marwan

[klubman]

Thank you for the answer to my question regarding flight instructors.

However, you still haven't answered my question about the turnover of ground instructors.:=

So, once again, how many of the 8 ground instructors have been employed at AAA for less than 12 months?

[Ayla]

mmatalla,

You are right about a regulator setting minimum standards. The JAA/EASA do enforce mininmum standards which are set pretty high! You will find this if you go for JAA/EASA acreditation.

Good authorities will enforce these "high" minimum standards and will take action if those standards are ignored or allowed to slip.

Flying Training minimum standards have to be high and enforced, because of the consequences of not doing so.

Does CARC set high minimum standards and does it enforce them?

Could you name me some "not so good schools" in the UK that meet JAA requirements? There may be some poor school in some developing countries, because high minimum standards are not enforced!

In short having high minimum standards, which are enforced gives the student protection against Flying Schools doing what they please!

[mmatalla]

Dear Klubman;

My oversight. We have 8 GI's. One has been with us 16 months, five for 9 months, and two for 3 months.

All but two are JAA instructors, and we are currently looking for one more (JAA). More details on our web site.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear Ayla;

I agree with you, and i believe CARC is doing its best to impose high standards, and they are improving by the day. they are not perfect, but the good news is that they recognize that, and have taken steps towards improving themselves. in fact, they recently took the decison to adopt JAA standards, which is a huge step forward.

i would not try to name schools because i don't think it's appropriate for me to pass judgement. but i would like to restate my sentence for clarificaton to say "some are good and some are not as good". again, it's a subjective issue, but management and leadership are a major part in determining quality.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear Striker5.

no, of course i would not like to discuss a students' case with you online. this is not proper.

like i said, ever person is entitled to a full statement of account detailing his/her charges. please feel free to e-mail me at any time.

Marwan

[mmatalla]

Dear Striker5.

Spins are not permitted under CARC regulations.

Marwan

[icecream_pilot]

Mr Atalla,

I must agree with Striker54 about the spins and some other maneuvers that you say are not permitted under CARC regulations

You never know while doing stalls you might enter a spin and it will be a shame for the school that "a student died because he entered a spin and he couldn't recover"

Forwardslip has also been removed why ?

CARC have lot's of improvement to make...In their regulations (as an example) it says that a X-country flight must be a minimum straight line leg of 50 NM from Dep.

Is this requirement respected ? No !

All this is just on the CFIs mood and arragement here and there, and i must say many many people are not happy with his decisions and way of dealing with students!

[Striker54]

Mr. Atallah, It's quite true about what you stated when it comes to the delay but you forgot one essential point which would be our delay for giving priority to class Alpha and I nearly stayed at home with a couple of colleagues of mine for over a month just to catch a flight and then the whole Delta A and Delta B plan that worked out in an outrageous way - just setting things right up straight in this issue. It's true about the fleet change but what puzzles me the most is the decision of us not flying the Diamonds with a certified instructor while class Charlie used to fly solo in the Diamonds later on, how come the FIs changed their minds?.

Believe me, Mr. Atallah I was only there as a listener and I haven't spoken a word with the Golf course nor the separate meeting for us, I had a few minor brief questions to ask but it didn't work out well since both sides were provoked extremely. A lot of acadmies give out at least a month in which the course would graduate in and a lot of them are located in Florida not only in the academy that I have enrolled in.

You're a person of interest and I am a person of interest, both of us take and give. It's the same, imagine as if you were back in Houston - when you don't like something operating you just let it go and go else where to fill in your best interest. It's nothing personal and I hope you did not take it personally, you're as human as I am and there is always a room for fault and error but as your respective management as the whole of Ayla instructors + cadets agree upon when it comes to manupilating the system itself, you have to collect the different point of views and work on them accordingly. Face the problems that your academy is encountering and solve it when the whole majority agree on. It's your academy and it is ours as we were taught in it, it would be sad to see it corrupt through mischievious individuals. Don't trust anyone with your business, trust yourself and trust your decisions. Unfortunately, the one man that could have worked correctly is Mr. Murphy.

One more advice from a concerned human is don't overload yourself with more courses.

Just my 2cents!!

I will appreciate it you Private Message me with the e-mail that you are using so I can be in further contact with you regarding the student's financial problems.

Regards.

[Striker54]

One more point Mr. Atallah, if you train captains and not just pilots you should work on the side with CARC to allow the spins in the whole of Jordan. It's a really terrible way to die in.

Think of it this way, a guy goes to Dubai and rents a Cessna 172 and starts fiddling around with it, goes into an inverted spin and dies. People start talking, the Cessna recovers by itself how did this guy die, another man pops up and says well he studied in Ayla and they don't train on spins and as I have heard that the CARC doesn't allow spins.

How do you expect to graduate a fully capable pilot while he can't recover from a spin, Thankfully some instructors feel guilty and actually show us how to recover from spins because they do not wish to have this person flying around with them signing on their recommendation and dieing over a small tiny maneuver.

Forward Slip is banned now? haha! That's hilarious, I sort of know who came up with this idea as one of the instructor's that I flew with told me that SHE doesn't like to do this manuever because she thought it was dangerous and I NEVER did it with her!! Fortunately, I learnt it from another instructor and I actually used it once when I was on final or I would have collided with another plane in sight.

Flying is not about pitch up and pitch down, it's about controlling it when it enters into an unusual attitude.

[TZZ]

well flying goes into unusual attitude when a pilot flys it carelessly. Anyway bro about spin what i think is not mandatory by alot of CAA's around the world. I remember where i got my pilot license from spin was optional but only Japanese students used to do spin because it was mandatory for them. Anyway all of you Bahraini guys just work hard and be strong..... Best of luck to every aviator

[ebrahime]

Usually I ignore thing that I don’t like, or things that I consider hopeless, but I just couldn’t hep my self when I read the following:

This, of course, is in addition to the fact that we provide free laptops & wireless internet access throughout our facilities.

Now that was indeed the funniest thing I read in this whole thread.:rolleyes: Apparently, cadet are being charged almost dbl market price for that scrap (laptop) which I have given to my niece (2 years old) when I went back to Bahrain. I think you need to give what u have said a second thought...

BTW, since we are talking money here, how much does per flying hour cost in AAA???!!!. It’s very confusing due to fluctuation in money paid by different cadets running away from your academy. I have been told that it cost $450/H :eek:, another cadet who left to Florida was charged a different price, and the latest cadet leaving your academy was charged more than $19,000 and left with 20 hours (which makes it very hard to guess the price/Hour he was charged.

2. I hope the watch I gave you will make you remember your good times at Ayla, and rest assured you and your colleagues are welcome back here anytime.
Mmmm, sounds like an emotional blackmail to me.

[Striker54]

I'm not sure about the other CAAs in the world but for me as a pilot I would much more rather have spins involved in my training and as Ayla goes with the moto "Pilots Empowered" as well.

Regardless, it was just an opinion; nothing more and nothing less.

[Mike.Park]

A fully developed spin is an aerobatic maneuver!!

Before anyone goes out and digs themselves an early grave, there's a few things to consider & question before you carry out spins of any sort.

- Regulation. Is it permitted or prohibited by your national aviation authority?
Are there any special rules that apply?

- Is your aircraft certified for spin training? Intentionally spinning a non-certified aircraft is outright dangerous. You nor the plane will be covered by insurance when you do so thus making your flight illegal.

- Owner's permission. It's important to remember that your flying an aircraft owned by someone other than yourself. You therefor play by their rules. If they don't permit spin training in their training aircraft, doing so gives them the grounds to kick you off the course.

In the UK, spinning was dropped as a PPL syllabus requirement back in the 90s as an unfortunate number of students (and instructors) were killing themselves in the process.

Spin avoidance is now where the emphasis is placed and it forms part of the current JAA-PPL syllabus. Rather than learning to recover from a fully developed spin, you are taught to recognize the early onset of a spin and recover before it even develops. You should never need to demonstrate how to carry out a developed spin or a stall for your instructor as it does you no favours.

What you should be demonstrating is how you recover from the earliest sign of an approaching stall or spin both of which should be induced by your instructor - not yourself!

Some flight schools still value spin & upset training and include it as part of their courses which takes place in addition to meeting the minimum licecence requirements. This is usually carried out in an aerobatic aircraft with a flight instructor who's got an aerobatic endorsement.

Remember: Stalls & Spins are aerobatic maneuvers - HASELL checks!!

[mmatalla]

Dear Striker5;
Our system does involve priority. That is the only way it would work. Airlines adopt a similar seniority structure internally with pilots. So Alpha has priority over Bravo, Bravo over Charlie. And of course, Delta had priority over Echo. It makes more sense to do it that way because the faster the previous course can finish, the more instructors and aircraft are available for the next course. But if a class has priority, it does not mean the other class does not fly at all. In fact, we almost always have overlap in the flight line, and the priority system seems to be working well.
In your particular case, we were going through a fleet change, and we had only one or two aircraft at the time, so when we gave Alpha priority, you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.
With regards to Charlie flying the Diamonds, please remember that Charlie cadets were PPL holders, and we felt that having them fly the DA40’s, IN THE CIRCUIT ONLY, was an acceptable risk. Again, every hour they flew, was an hour that class Delta did not have to wait.
Faced with the same situation, I would have done the exact same thing. As tough a period as it as it was, I never felt such dedication, commitment and loyalty from the Ayla staff, and the vast majority of our cadets.
I wish you luck in your training and your future career.
Marwan

[Mike.Park]

you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.Unlike an airline, your trainee pilots are paying for a service. They're customers of your company not employees. You remain unapologetic to your customers for the decision making screw-ups made by your managerial team. It sums you up quite nicely Mr Atalla. You bit off more than you could chew.

[FlightLevel00]

Mr Atalla ,

There is a rumour that your thinking of bringing a new twin ( Cessna 310 ) :E

Is it true ?

Regards

[SilveR5]

In your particular case, we were going through a fleet change, and we had only one or two aircraft at the time, so when we gave Alpha priority, you were essentially grounded for a few weeks. I make no apology for this and I still believe it was the right thing to do.


1) Why you had to change the fleet? Did you find it not coping enough? All of a sudden?!

2) Was your plan for a fleet change just as simple as this??? get rid of the original fleet, bring the replacement fleet, delay cadets for weeks or months, and hell I don't wanna hear anybody complaining coz I did nothing wrong!!! What a plan!!

3) Who should be held responsible for the consequences of fleet changes in the middle of a scheduled training course?

4) After completing the fleet changes, and in terms of "PRIORITY", How did you manage to compensate for the delayed cadets and let them catch back the normal progress?

5) Even if you are not to be blamed for the whole thing, didn't you see youself in a position where you should have ethically offered an apology on the behalf of Mr. Unknown?! Not even now within these discussions?!!!!

6) A naive business owner knows about primitive words like "customers are always right"..You didn't even translate the situation in such way, did you?!

Guys, can anyone help me with few words to best describe a person who has overlooked the above and continued doing whatever he was up to??

YEAH...I CAN HEAR YOU ALL SAYING IT AT ONCE...
INCAPACITATED SMUG!


Thanks Mr. Atalla. You have made it easy for us this time to reach a conclusion!

[mmatalla]

Dear Mike.Park;

I make no apology for grounding the fleet. Paying customers or not paying customers, I will simply not put anyone's life in danger no matter how much they pay or how much delay it causes. Safety is number one and it will always be number one.

Thank you

Marwan Atalla

[FlightLevel00]

So what are you thinking ? Piper ?
More single also ?

Regards

[Daddy-long-legs]

What the news? it's been long time since we hear any news here.... i hear that ayla will be purchased by some Gulf companies...is that right? anyway keep us updated.....

[mmatalla]

Dear Daddy-long-legs;

All is well thank you for asking. We just started our second Class of Royal Jordanian Cadets (Couse Golf).

No truth to the Gulf rumour. Ayla is not for sale. But we did sign a Joint Venture agreement with Gestair in Europe to share information and best practices.

Marwan Atalla

[FlightLevel00]

funny enough now the CEO is in everyone is shutting their mouths !!! :ugh:

[icecream_pilot]

Lol !!!!!!!!!!!!! :}

[Mike.Park]

A "spin session" was held by Ayla Academy @ the Radisson SAS in Bahrain. Make what you will of the article in Bahrain's GDN newspaper.

Females account for less than 5% of Ayla's student body - is that anything to be proud of?

Anyhow, Rebecca Torr at the GDN is more than happy to hear from any of the Bahraini pilots at Ayla and she can reached on [email protected]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ufzjmp.jpg

[FlightLevel00]

INFORMATIONS ARE WRONG TOTALLY WRONG !!!! :ugh:

DONT BELIEVE THIS CRAP

[Ayla]

Ms Sarrage is quoted in the article saying "that due to Gulf Air's expansion they will need 70-80 pilots".

Perhaps someone from within Gulf Air could give a rough percentage of how many of these vacancies will be filled with BDB sponsored CPL/IR holders, who all need type ratings?

[icecream_pilot]

I think GF made a sort of plan/schedule for the BDB students

I heard from couple of guyz that they planned Sim slots in June

Cheers

[Mike.Park]

I think GF made a sort of plan/schedule for the BDB students

I heard from couple of guyz that they planned Sim slots in June

We'll believe it when we see it! As for now, it's all talk.

[icecream_pilot]

Gulf Air are going to come (inshallah) to Jordan and visit the academy so we will have the chance to ask them and we will let you know !

I agree everything should be on paper, talking can be just BS :hmm:

[ebrahime]

funny enough now the CEO is in everyone is shutting their mouths !!!

lolz.... Its a hopeless case... personnaly, im not bothered (live and let live) :cool:

[Mike.Park]

Bahrainis scaling greater heights

Posted on » Saturday, March 28, 2009

FOURTEEN Bahrainis were awarded their commercial pilot licence from Ayla Aviation Academy at a graduation ceremony held at King Hussein International Airport in Aqaba, Jordan last night.

The two women and 12 men were among 17 cadets to graduate, with the others are from Lebanon, Jordan and India.

This is the first group of Bahrainis and females to graduate from the Aqaba-based academy, which has been operational for almost two and a half years.

The graduation ceremony for the group, known as the Charlie, featured speeches from Ayla chief executive officer Marwan Atalla, Gulf Air chief people officer Ahmed Al Banna and several cadets.

"You are the future leaders," was the message graduates received from Mr Atalla and Mr Al Banna.

"The mission statement of Ayla is that graduates are future leaders and not just pilots," said Mr Al Banna.

"To those joining Gulf Air I say Gulf Air supported you and will continue to support you and be at your service."

The speeches were followed by a video of the highlights of the cadets' activities at Ayla, a distribution of awards by Mr Al Atalla and Ayla chief captain Jamal Qumoq and a cake-cutting ceremony.

The graduates were: Abdulla Al Khan, Ahmed Aseeri, Ahmed Ismaeel, Ali Kowaitan, Duaij Al Khateeb, Fatima Hassan, Isa Khadem, Issa Ayyoub, Khaled Al Khalo, Maitham Al Saffar, Mohammed Hasan, Nilufer Mehta, Omar Albinfalah, Talal Elhajj, Waad Al Doseri, Yaqoob Yaqoobi and Yousif Al Meamari.

Gulf Air flight crew recruitment manager Captain Aud Al Tauqi and Ayla board of directors also attended the event.

Speaking on the sidelines of the event, Mr Al Banna told the GDN that Gulf Air had sponsored 11 of the Bahraini cadets.

He said these graduates would get first priority for a job at Gulf Air. Now they had graduated they would be called for an interview with Captain Al Tauqi and be given an assessment.

He said he was very proud to see that women had graduated from the training course.

"We have four pilots in Gulf Air that are women, two Bahrainis and two expats and now we have three graduates (one of the graduates, Ms Mehta, is Indian, but based in Bahrain)."

Mr Atalla said on the sidelines that he was impressed with Bahrain's level of high school education and he was happy to see women in the Middle East entering the industry.

Mr Atalla said there had been significant interest in training Bahrainis at Ayla and expected many more students from the country to qualify from the academy.

The commercial pilot licence with instrument rating training costs $90,000 (BD34,000) and includes accommodation, transportation, uniforms and headsets.
Mr Atalla said Ayla's training focused on creating leaders and professionals.

"It's not just about flying, it's a lifestyle, we give them activities and sports to teach them team building," said Mr Atalla.

"Our slogan is: 'We train captains not just pilots', and the main difference between the two is leadership."

Ayla was founded by the Near East Group and Atlantic Flight Training, UK. It has instructors from the Middle East, Europe and the US.

The academy's flight training facilities are located at King Hussein International Airport in Aqaba, Jordan, while the ground training is conducted at Shwaikh Mall, in the town centre.

The academy can take up to 150 students but it currently has about 100 of which 47 are Bahrainis. The latest group of nine Bahrainis began their course in January 2008 and will graduate in August.




Congratulations to all those who have just earned their Jordanian wings.

So how long is it going to take before the 11 Gulf Air sponsored cadets start their type ratings?

[Mike.Park]

Does anyone know if the 11 cadets that graduated from Ayla have started their type rating with Gulf Air yet??

[STEVEN lADD bORGWARD]

To all who are in search of a flying/flt instructor position or are looking for a good flight school; Think twice before joining with Ayla Aviation. I was a flight instructor with Ayla for a short period in 2008. I've spent 40 plus years flying, I'm retired and thought that I would like to give back to aviation what it has given me. At first Ayla seemed like a good place to work; thorough interview and hiring process, state or the art equipment, a hangar that could easily serve as your living room......on and on. The management style is that of a "harum". Marwan hires "drop dead gorgeous" women for his key positions. None of them have any aviation experience much less the aptitude to function in an aviation org. Marwan (CEO) is basically a playboy with a whopping 500 hrs of flight time and 2 aircraft accidents under his belt......impressive! His personal management style is to make money and he gives little concern on how it's done. The MCP program is now fully developed and done without anyone with any airline experience. The gal in charge of the this has little flight time much less any flight experience in jets. This is unbelieveable! No one at Ayla has any airline experience or jet experience except the chief flt instr. I was hired there partly because of my extensive time as a captain for United airlines. When I got there Marwan wanted none of my help on this project. I can go on about Ayla for a long time but I will not. In short, if you're considering ANY kind of a relationship with Ayla-BE CAREFUL! Good Luck Gents and Ladies. Steve Borgwardt

[STEVEN lADD bORGWARD]

Read my blurb posted today. Steve Borgwardt

[AIM HI]

Is this academy still the only approved one in Jordan as they advertise?
what is the story of the two instructors getting off the the R/W?:(

[Ayla 2020]

Long time no news about this school , Truthful do you have any update.

[AIM HI]

I can feel how much Borgwardt is upset.

[cayclone]

no there are other schools

[Mike.Park]

Graduation joy for pilots

Monday, June 29, 2009

NINE Bahrainis have graduated with their commercial pilots licences from Ayla Aviation Academy in Aqaba, Jordan. The academy's fourth graduation ceremony was held at the Mšvenpick Hotel in Aqaba and was its first all-Bahraini course.

It was sponsored by Gulf Air and the graduation took place under the patronage of Ayla Aviation Academy chief executive officer Marwan Atalla and chairman Munir Atalla.

It was attended by Bahraini Embassy representatives Ahmad Al Reyati and Mohammed Dawoud, as well as graduates' relatives, Ayla staff, students and friends.

Course Delta began training in January last year and after 17 months the participants received their commercial pilots licences with instrument rating.

The graduates are Abdulrahman Akbari, Ahmed Husain, Ebrahim Hararah, Husain Al Asfoor, Mohamed Aseeri, Mohamed Al Ansari, Mohamed Shanbeeh, Nayef Dairi and Rashed Al Qattan.

--------------------------------

It appears Ayla Aviation are still name dropping.

It was sponsored by Gulf AirIf their training was "sponsored" by Gulf Air, why were these youngsters asked to take out 30,000+ Dinar loans?! :bored:

I hope the airline that "sponsored" them actually takes them on board.

[Zone 2 Alt]

Presumably from now on, the future BDB funded students will be going to the newly formed Gulf Aviation Academy in Bahrain!

[AIM HI]

HI Zone 2 Alt
and what do think ? is this new born :{would be better than this 3 year old one:p

[Mike.Park]

Wow, this thread died a long time ago. Is ayla aviation still above water?

Their website hasn't been updated with any news since December 2008

[Ayla 2020]

You might hear something very soon Mike .

[wis3384]

Ayla 2020

Meaning?>

[Mike.Park]

You might hear something very soon Mike

That's what i heard last year..

...and the year before

[AIM HI]

[You might hear something very soon Mike ]
:uhoh:Smells scarey.Dosent it?

[mmatalla]

Dear All;

Ayla Aviation Academy is please to report that we have received JAA approval as a provider of ATPL Theoretical Knowledge, under the umbrella of our UK school, Atlantic Flight Training.

The UK CAA inspector was very pleased with what he saw during his visit and audit at Ayla, and wished us continued sucsess. We thank the UK CAA for this great honor.

As always, credit goes to our staff, especialy our Training Manager, who was the first to believe in our abilities, and who worked hard to achieve this highly valuble approval for us.

Marwan Atalla
CEO

[Gulf Flyer]

Well done.

[Mike.Park]

Should prospective students expect a price hike as a result?

[mmatalla]

It depends on whether they want a full JAA license, or just the ATPL TK portion. If the former, the price is higher due to the fact that they would need to do 6 month of flying in the UK. If not, then the price is the same as before.

[Mike.Park]

Jordan now added under AFT's umbrella to Standards Document 31.

http://i32.tinypic.com/19bjb9.jpg

[wis3384]

Mike,

Which Means:confused:

[Mike.Park]

It means that if you are a student of Atlantic Flight Training, you can choose to do your ground school theory in Jordan (at Ayla)

[wis3384]

oh ok and so they can provide the theory ground school and flight in Jordan, or its required to do a flight portion in AFT?

[mafemukh]

Hi Wis,
It all depends on what licence you need. If you are going to fly aircraft registered to a JAA nation (ie. European), you must obtain a JAA licence. As such, you will need to do a certain amount of "local" flying in a JAA state.

[AIM HI]

Welcom back mafemukh
Is it true that the lady who was the head of training here is now the head ofthe licencing at CARC?:cool:

[mafemukh]

Always keeping a friendly eye on what's happening in Jordan! Your rumour is an interesting one but I would be very surprised if it were true!

[Ayla 2020]

The rumor is true , I was suprised like you toooooooooooooo .

[mafemukh]

Not that I have any concerns, the lady is very competent, thorough and hardworking. It is more surprise that
a) It is no longer Captain B
and b) It isn't a former member of RJ or one of the inspectors.
Interesting.

[AIM HI]

Ayla 2020
[ was suprised like you toooooooooooooo ]
why?:confused:

[Mike.Park]

Jordan's Ayla offers training alternative

By Alan Peaford

Closer training links between the emerging Chinese market and the Middle East could benefit Asian Aerospace debutant Ayla Aviation Academy.

The Aqaba, Jordan-based training centre is one of the most modern and well-equipped in the world and has been training aspiring pilots from airlines such as Gulf Air, Kuwait Airlines and Royal Jordanian.

But chief executive Marwan Atalla says he believes the company can benefit from the growth in training demand from China.

Working with its sister establishment Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry in the UK, Ayla has Joint Aviation Authorities approval to conduct airline transport pilot licence theoretical knowledge training at its ground school facility.

Atalla says: "Ayla was founded on the premise of providing advanced and innovative flight training and education based on a JAA syllabus in the region. Now using both schools, Ayla and Atlantic, we are able to provide cadets with a fully approved JAA licence, making them more marketable and competitive in the global market.

"With the whole growth of Chinese aviation market there is a demand for 50,000 pilots. We believe we can play a great part in helping meet that demand."

Source: AA09: Jordan's Ayla offers training alternative (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/10/332073/aa09-jordans-ayla-offers-training-alternative.html)

[AIM HI]

Rumours here say there are very very very few number of students joined this year ,is this commen everywhere or just here:(

[gilderoy lockhart]

Ayla was highly dependant on Bahrain Development Bank funded students from Bahrain. This source of students will have dried up with the formation of the Gulf Aviation Academy (linked to BDB), who now send students to Oxford in the UK.

[Ayla 2020]

Aim HI - good question , we need to get the number of students at RJAA or MEAA for 2009 , then you can figure out

[AIM HI]

Good Day Ayla 2020
I am not sure if the doors are closed yet, it seems the number of students is down everywhere.:(

[Zone 2 Alt]

I gather the next wave of unsuitable managers/instructors (CGI,CFI and HOT) that Mafemukh referred to, have just been fired at Atlantic Flight Training.

[Ayla 2020]

Firing & new people hiring and the life is going on :).

[bandie]

Zone 2 Alt

Reference your post of yesterday regarding AFT - I heard that the HOT and CFI left, and the CGI was fired -(in post for less than a month)! If true, that's really unfortunate - losing 3 unsuitable managers in the space of a month!, especially when they were all approved by the CAA.

Ayla 2020

If that is the practice of Ayla/AFT they must have a really high staff turnover rate. Surely there can't be many more unsuitable managers/instructors around the world left to hire and fire!

[Ayla 2020]

bandie

Actually firing and hiring is something normal at AAA , I am not sure if this practice was transferred to AFT too.

[bandie]

Ayla 2020

It would appear that the 'hire/fire' practice is becoming the same at AFT as Ayla - does anyone know why?

If true, this surely is no way to build up a successful business any where in the world, as logic along with 'word of mouth' experiences from managers/instructors who have been involved with both AAA/AFT says that those seeking employment in this sector will I imagine, not even consider these schools as viable. It most certainly will not help the most important group of people involved - the students, as a continual change of instructor can hardly be seen as condusive to learning.

I wonder what the CAA thinks of the loss of the three managers at AFT?

[Ayla 2020]

"this surely is no way to build up a successful business any where in the world"

go to post # 259 & 265

[AIM HI]

More CFIs will leave very sooooooooooooon.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Ayla 2020]

Aim Hi , is this some thing new from AAA????????

[AIM HI]

It seems we are coming to the end,let them sleep in peace:p:p:p

[gilderoy lockhart]

Aim Hi, Care to elaborate?

[AIM HI]

gilderoy lockhart
Sorry ,been away for awhile.Any thing special?:rolleyes:

[SV_741_India_Bravo]

hi everyone, I am looking to do my instructor rating from there.........can someone tell me a little abt the school?

thanks.

[Ayla 2020]

SV_741_India_Bravo (http://www.pprune.org/members/95507-sv_741_india_bravo) :

Did you read the whole thread about them ?

[AIM HI]

What ? for sale ? are you serious?:\

[boeing738ng]

Recently got to know that Ayla has been radically changing their policies and after the recent visa by JAA to their academy, news is that the ground school is closing and moving to another location within the city.
Also Ayla seems to be going back to their primary policy of firing staff.

AFT has closed down (for the time being) till they find another location in UK to continue with training. Students from there have been shipped to Ayla to continue, a sign of working for the present and overlooking possible problems in the future.

Though Ayla claims to have found numerous alternate airports in UK to continue training, no contract has been signed officially.

If anyone has detailed reports or has heard things like this, please do let us all know. I have a number of friends willing to apply to the academy but looking at the current management structure and lack of looking into the future, they are thinking otherwise.

[Moe83]

reading through your comment "Steve Borgwardt" it is obvious that your problem with Ayla is rather personal, i dont know what you must have screwed up to end up out of the door on your :mad: but i am sure that it must have been big,

so i dont really care what the CEO does in his personal time or whom he hires when it does not concern training, and merely administrative issues, so if his secretary cant type good english and was hired based on her looks, i frankly dont give a rat's :mad:,,

so suck it up with all your experience in aviation am sure you would find a great job as a sack boy :D so let the door hit you where the good lord split you.

[easydebt]

AFT very definitely NOT closed down; working harder than ever and from 3 airport sites inc. Coventry to get the KAC contract finished.

After that who knows:hmm:

(70 hours in the sim last month, in the middle of the best run of fine weather we've had in years! :ugh:)

[contractor25]

you don't really need an airport to run a sim.....

But having these kinds of problems as a training facility is difficult. It's not exactly the high profit area of aviation. Schools often have to cope with high overheads and elevated insurance premiums because things do get bend sooner or later. A high staff turnover just complicates matters.

[easydebt]

All I was aiming for was to put in a few facts, mainly that AFT is NOT closed.

I can't say that after 3000 hours of instructional experience, I was particularly looking to be educated on where you can stick a simulator! Funnily enough though you have just given me an idea or two on exactly where you could stick a simulator......;)