Jet* Drunks

[Ken Borough]

From News.com.au Top stories | News from Australia and around the world online | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au)

Passengers' drunken fight forces Jetstar plane back to Darwin

By Matt Cunningham November 01, 2008 08:35am
-
Drunk passengers start fight
Captain turns plane around
Second incident in a week

AN international flight was forced to return to Darwin airport after a fight broke out between five drunken passengers.

Jetstar flight JQ61 carrying 172 passengers from Darwin to Singapore was forced to turn around about half an hour after it took off from Darwin airport on Thursday night, the Northern Territory News reported.

Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway said it was believed the men had been drinking dutyfree alcohol before they boarded the plane.

Despite being intoxicated, they passed several security checkpoints and boarded the plane.

Mr Westaway said the men became "disruptive" about 30 minutes after take-off, leaving the captain no option but to turn the plane around.

"We originally contemplated having security meet them in Singapore but the captain made the decision to go back to Darwin," he said.

It is the second Australian flight in a week to be turned around because of unruly passengers

Australian Federal Police officers were waiting at Darwin airport and escorted the five Malaysian men off the plane.

Two men were taken into protective custody. The other three were allowed to leave on their own.

The two men in custody were later released after Jetstar informed the AFP it did not want to pursue charges.

The disruption delayed the flight by about three hours.

"We are doing our own investigation as to how these individuals got on to the plane while intoxicated," Mr Westaway said. But he said Jetstar management supported the captain's decision to turn the plane around.

"Our captain and crew have a duty of care to all passengers," he said. he said.

There's something odd about this story. 5 drunk punters cause an airline to incur significant costs, many fellow passenegers would have been delayed and missed connectionc, yet neither the airline or authorities take any action.

Then the Jet* spin doctor says "Our captain and crew have a duty of care to all passengers." That being so, how did the drunks manage to get on board? Is there now a lot of soul-searching at Jet*??.

[teresa green]

Mate, I have been paxing on a QF flight to NZ only to have the misfortune to sit with a Rugby League team, whose only aim was to drink the aircraft dry. Its a miserable and confronting way to travel regardless what airline your on. If it is the case JQ did the only thing possible, and my sympathy goes to the hard working JQ cabin crew, who seem to put up with a lot, and handle it well. If people are behaving ok in the shed, how or why do you stop them from boarding.

[speedbirdhouse]

They shouldn't have been allowed to board in an intoxicated state.

Yes, denying boarding is confrontational, unpleasant and sometimes difficult.

However it is the responsibility of whoever runs the cabin to ensure that apes like these don't get on, three sheets to the wind.

Besides, I can't imagine an instance at Qantas where a Captain wouldn't support the assessment of a CSM.

Not even the goons running QF CC management are going to take you to task over a delay incurred for this kind of incident.

Maybe things are different at, "onya jetstar"?

[HotDog]

Mate, I have been paxing on a QF flight to NZ only to have the misfortune to sit with a Rugby League team

Brings back memories. We had a rugby team on board from Perth to Hong Kong in the sixties. They just about drank the plane dry by top of climb and that was with extra beer loaded. They were passing full beer cans form one end of the cabin to the other, terrifying cabin crew and passengers alike. We finally quitened them down by winding the cabin up to 10,000ft with us on oxygen as needed.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Lol HotDog, somehow I doubt the fun police would be all over that one today... I've always thought it a pretty valid action in the event things bcome severely disruptive...

Speedbird, it's not always that easy. On a couple of occasions I've had passegers kick off after t/o... they appeared fine and in full possession of their faculties on boarding... some people have just learnt to hide it very well for the crucial time of boarding...

It's much harder to do anything after take off, I know... but sometimes it's not down to the cc... especially on international flights- it's ground crew who do the boarding, and sadly, some of them seem to be of the mentality of 'get rid of them so they won't be our problem'- sadly these people seem to forget what that can do in the confines of a cabin at altitude.

[Qantas 787]

Why are you having a go at Jet* (typical JQ bashing). The same article mentioned the earlier incident with DJ except there was 2 idiots. Same deal - why not ask questions about them?

While the airlines should really take more action before they board, the airline is trying to get them boarding as soon as possible. Unless someone is blind drunk, you can't tell if peple are intoxicated.

The biggest problem is even if these fools are charged, they get away with it. They should pay ALL of the costs of thier stupidity - the accomodation, the fuel, and all the other expenses incurred. That would stop them pretty quickly.

[max1]

Get them to pay the costs, but I don't think the idiots who do this are thinking enough to stop themselves.

I don't think most people who break laws are actually thinking of the consequences whilst actually breaking the law, except corporate types who usually apply a cost/benefit ratio applied against what are the chances of getting caught, and how good are my lawyers, and who can I get as a fallguy.

[speedbirdhouse]

Yes, sure they shouldn't get as far as the aircraft if the ground staff do as they should.

Contract check in/ground staff in ports like DPS are more likely than not, going to avoid the confrontation involved and not just for cultural reasons.

If and when they do get to the aircraft those at the door ought to be the ones identifying those passengers who are [visibly] intoxicated and advise the Captain.

If the report is correct these morons were intoxicated and started misbehaving 1/2 hour out of DWN.

[speedbirdhouse]

Oh BTW, Quote-

"We are doing our own investigation as to how these individuals got on to the plane while intoxicated"

_________________________


I wonder who "onya jetstar's" management are going to be coming after for allowing them onboard........

[tobzalp]

Mofos were pretty lucky the drivers did not push on to Singas and have the goons there take them into custody.

[tinpis]

Malaysians? Muslims on the pi55?

Australian Federal Police officers were waiting at Darwin airport and escorted the five Malaysian men off the plane.

Drunken fight forces plane back - Northern Territory News (http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2008/11/01/13345_ntnews.html)

[TMAK]

Tinpis...not all Malaysians are muslims...from memory about 70%...but yeah most I have met visiting Oz drink!

Speedbirdhouse...yet another negative statement...surely an investigation is simply that....why does it suggest the JQ management are going after anyone. You seem a bit out of touch with modern day ground handling. Im sure most people on this forum have snuck past a boarding gate after a few too many pints. Lets keep in mind that JQ like QF have CC at the gate who would be the point that picks up a drunk pax...not in fact the ground staff (for the A320 fleet at least).

[jet.jackson]

With a few years experience under your belt you can become very adept at spotting anyone slightly intoxicated....
Have a quick chat..make an evaluation and act accordingly.
If indeed they are intoxicated they dont get onboard.
Allowing 5 onboard is just asking for trouble

[speedbirdhouse]

jet.jackson,

spoken like someone who knows what he is talking about unlike our friend TMAK.

_________________

TMAK,

"Lets keep in mind ",QF [I]DONT have Cabin Crew at the gate.:rolleyes:

Do "onya Jetstar" and more importantly?

Do you know what you are talking about?

It doesn't sound like it.........

[qfcabin]

Jetstar decided not to press charges???
So what does this tell future maniacs who want to get on pissed and be morons?

[Little_Red_Hat]

Didn't think cc were allowed to be of aircraft on international flights, could be different in DRW though. 170-something pax... what's the full load for the 320, I thought it was around the 150-165 mark? Aren't they using the A330 for JQI flights?

As I said, QF don't have cc at the gate on international flights... I am one so I would know. Not even on the 737, it is all done by ground crew. I agree with experience one can recognise MOST pax showing signs of intoxication... but some don't show it. Once knew a guy who could have 8 beers in a short time and still speak normally, without any sign of slurred speech or unfocused eyes. Point is there will be ALWAYS someone who gets pax, even if the cc are on the ball- as there are plenty of other things to be looking at during boarding as well. Often, you don't realise until after they walk off and the alcohol smell wafts up. In which case it's seat number noted and quiet chat prior to t/o.

[1279shp]

Our team must really trust no-one is turped/toked up!

We now have Automated check-in, Auto bag processing - after the auto check in prints ya bag label, just drop it on th conveyer - then at the gate you swipe your own boarding pass and your on the tarmac!!

Will save $30m a year.

[qfcabin]

Point is there will be ALWAYS someone who gets pax, even if the cc are on the ball- as there are plenty of other things to be looking at during boarding as well. Often, you don't realise until after they walk off and the alcohol smell wafts up. In which case it's seat number noted and quiet chat prior to t/o.

LRH Someone who gets pax what?? and they walk off??? and a quiet chat?...did you start flying yesterday?

[Mr. Hat]

So what actually happened on board? Anyone know?

And what sort of trouble do you get in for this sort of thing?

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "And what sort of trouble do you get in for this sort of thing?"

Not enough to deter it.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Sorry, was a tired typo.... I meant, there is always someone who gets PAST... habit of typing 'pax' so much in one post.

As for the quiet chat... one does not want to march down the aircraft and grab a pax by the collar, having a quick chat is often the best way to suss out their state of drunkenness (or not). Already suggested by another poster as well.

Not always apparent in an exchange of hello, how are you, scan boarding card, hand back, pax walks off. Often it's as they walk away that the cc get a chance to watch them... in which case if anything odd is noted point it out to the ground crew and onboard manager on returning to the aircraft. (This in the case of domestic boarding). Internationally, if someone looks a bit odd, go over on the pretext of helping with bags or whatever, have a quick hello, anything odd, again, report it to manager/other crew.

No I did not start flying yesterday, did you?

[RodH]

Quite a few years ago I was a Capt. on a B737 from Cairns-Brisbane when a F/A asked me what she should do about a very drunk , beligerant and abusive bloke down the back.
I decided to go and have a little " chat " with him .
I explained to him that Rockhampton airport was 15 mins. ahead and if he did not do as I told him we would divert into there.
It was further explaned the the very large Commonwealth Cops would come on board and remove him.
When I told him it would be most unfortunate that he would probably trip and " fall down " the airstairs , trip and fall whilst getting out of the police car and slip and fall face down whilst being escorted to the cells he went very quiet .
I said that all of the forthcoming " bruises " on his face etc. could be explained by his falling whilst drunk , this made him go quite pale.
He had the choice , sit down quietly and drink only coffee or possibly suffer a " few " accidental injuries.
Needless to say it was a pleasant quiet remainder of the journey .

I don't suppose one could do that these days as leaving the flight deck is a no no .
Ah !!!! the good old days .
:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Capt Claret]

CAR (1988) 256; 256 Intoxicated persons not to act as pilots etc. or be carried on aircraft

(1) A person shall not, while in a state of intoxication, enter any aircraft.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.

There are legal ramifications in accusing some one of being intoxicated. There are also legal ramifications in carrying an intoxicated person, whether they've been talked to, or not.

[Mstr Caution]

So what actually happened on board? Anyone know?



I suppose we will never know. No charges laid, so no court appearance.

Makes it hard to recover costs if no prosecution ocurr.

[The Voice]

I think I heard that 2 or 3 were held in protective custody by the NT's finest - which means exactly that - they were considered too drunk to be able to look after themselves, the others were released.

[Nulli Secundus]

What a debacle!

A very clear message has just been broadcast to anyone wanting to get hammered & disrupt an Australian aircraft - go right ahead - you''ll more than likely walk away without charge.

This particular group of crew & passengers have been let down badly. Now spare a thought for the next innocent group of crew & passengers who will suffer disruption & intimidation by yet another lot of idiots who know full well,there's no serious deterent.

Get serious JQ et al...... press charges! Simple really: the skipper returns or diverts - You're Charged!

Surely not a case of insufficient evidence? Could it be the people involved were not to be charged?

[Dog One]

When one thinks about the NT Airport police, the word "Keystone" comes to mind!

[Capt Claret]

Dog One, as one who detests the way our airport security has changed in the last 7-ish years, when I've had dealings with the local (DRW) AFPers, they've been good ones.

Recently we were met, on arrival DRW at my request, because some bright sparks on board thought it was cute to steal Cabin Crew name badges. The AFP response was prompt, courteous, and couldn't have been described as keystone in any way.

[TMAK]

Speedbirdhouse,

I guess you proved me wrong about making negative statements...and still ignored the question!

TMAK,

"Lets keep in mind ",QF [Internationally] DONT have Cabin Crew at the gate.:rolleyes:

Do "onya Jetstar" and more importantly?

Do you know what you are talking about?

It doesn't sound like it.........

Yes indeed all JQ flights have cabin crew at the boarding gates. For INT sectors the Ground staff will also be involved in boarding as well. Its a little different for the A330, but all flights ex DRW are only A320's.

I suspect I am as familiar with boarding, if not more, than you as I assume you are crew? Did spend a number of years doing this....the good old days. I would doubt most ground staff would intentially pass on a known drunk or troublesome pax without at least some communication (I say most not all) to the cabin manager. My point is more around the fact that unless the pax are actually staggering, abusive or looking out of it you will usually bring on more problems by suggesting to someone they are drunk. Departing some ports, at certain times of the day, nearly everyone has had a drink of sorts...

Goes without saying that if you suspect they are, then either the pax should be challenged or a second (or third) opinion from the cabin manager (and Capt).

Whilst Jet Jackson is in general correct, it is somewhat over simplified version. Life is not as simple as a textbook (as it is not for crew either) when you are boarding and focused on many different things while trying to observe potentially hundreds of pax. Still doesnt mean you shouldnt try of course. This is where the benefit of having additional or supervisory staff at the gate comes in.

I do agree with you on the charges...absolutely the airline (any airline) should prosecute these pax. They have let themselves and the crew down by doing nothing about it.

Back to my point about the investigation...why not let it determine what went wrong, see if the staff did fail or whether it was unavoidable...then we can comment on actual facts and occurences...rather than taking the usual abusive wild shots at JQ...

Surely you wont tell me you have never boarded a flight (as a pax) after a couple of drinks...or drunk a fair few on a long flights...no difference in either happening really.

[Prado]

As ground staff, you always give a "heads up" to the crew of anything unusual observed during the check in process ... however a lot can change between when you check 'em in and when they board the aircraft .... don't most airports have a bar somewhere in between the check in desk & the boarding gate? A few mints & quietly through the boarding gate... who's to know what they've been up to? Isn't there some adage about 1 drink on the ground being worth 3 at altitude??

It is really disappointing however that the airlines (and I mean ALL airlines, as they all have these types of incidents) are not pursuing & charging these idiots.

Ahhh, if only we could still do it like in the good ol days, RodH!!

[teresa green]

Prado, in the good old days as you young turks call it, I took great pleasure on more than one occasion to throw a offensive, raving tosser of my aircraft without the fear of being invited in for tea and bikkies by the boss. PAX were normally well dressed and well behaved, not like I heard on JQ the other day eg: "where's mefuggin seat extension" in the old days you could tell a flight attendent that she looked attractive and she said thankyou and didn't fill in a sexual harrassment form. In the old days your F/O didn't bring his own tofu and muesli, and didn't ring his personnel trainer as soon as he left the A/C. In the old days pilots knew who Jimmy Doolittle was, and loved nothing more than the sound of Axial flow donks, crackling away and left an impressive black smoke trail. Throttles were pushed up and left there, Economy cruise was something in the performance book, but no one knew why or where it was. And if the clacker went off no one got all uptight, because we knew Boeing built it out of iron, nothing was going to fall off. In the old days if a PAX became impossible, the largest member of the flight deck went down with the handcuffs, and (a) threatened to belt the bloke (B) did so, and handcuffed him, without the threat of job loss or court case, (normally to the applause of PAX) sadly you young turks, have to abide by the ratbags who brought in all this equal rights stuff for your local friendly criminal, and it has now worked its way through the court systems, into the community, and of course onto A/C. Rather you blokes than me.

[waren9]

Well said that man.

Not just in our game either, its all walks of life now.

[JQTOMMY]

Hi Little Red Hat,

load on the 320 is 174 -177...

Cheers, Tommy

[404 Titan]

Only a few weeks ago we had the great pleasure of throwing off a passenger in Amsterdam. Silly pr*ck refused to put his carry on bag in the overhead locker or under the seat as directed and then argued with the cabin crew. He was even annoying the other pax around him. Luckily we hadn’t taken off but unfortunately we had already started taxying and were half way to the holding point for 36L. If anyone here knows Schiphol, the distance to this runway is considerable and turning back is a nuisance. When we finally got back to the gate the police didn’t waste any time forcibly removing this idiot and throwing him into a waiting paddy wagon. We could even here all the other pax cheering and clapping as they did it through the locked cockpit door which brought a huge smile to our faces.

[RENURPP]

Well said Teresa,
and they hide all that behind the term "CRM". The intention of CRM seems to have been lost a in polically correct rush to prove who is the "nicest and most poplular" crew memeber.

[Propstop]

I had a rather drunk and abusive passenger, who was swearing at everybody and sat beside me in JNB. He refused to be quiet when asked by a couple of Crew. He was dressed in shorts and singlet, not to mention the tats.
Finally the CSM came down and asked this guy what the problem was, but got abused and suggested they should go outside and the matter would be sorted.
The CSM then said they would go for a chat and that was the last we saw of this lowlife as he was taken into the tender loving care of the JNB airport police.
I ended up with a mature, very pleasant lady next to me and it turned into a very pleasant flight.

[Prado]

Teresa, we'll still chuck em off .... then just spend days and days going through the paperwork to justify the action when the disgruntled pax have gone to their Lawyers, who are threatening the airline with legal action. :ugh:

Just be happy you didn't have to do the paper work in your day!

Ciao

[teresa green]

Prado, whilst flying for TAA in New Guinea, we actually had side arms. I used to stand on the wing so some bugger didn't jump me. When I think about it it was pretty dumb, as one or more PAX could have taken it from you, but at that time I was a fit young buck and very wary. It probably sounds like our era was fairly violent, but it was not the case. Any ratbag that upset our girls, or abused them was fair game to any male crew member being either cabin or tech. When I think about it the male cabin crew enjoyed a bit of biff if necessary, but we had nothing to fear from management or lawyers, that came later. I can well remember grabbing some drunken bum by the collar and ear and escorting him off a DC9 in SYD, where Constable Plod then proceeded to kick him where the sun don't shine, all the way down the arm. Bring it back, especially in the schools, and the home. Anybody of my era had the Cr$p beaten out of them for disrespect, or crime, and it had no ill effect on most of us, only to make us think twice about doing it again. The world has gone mad, with only anarchy ahead. You have to fear for your kids and grandkids.:(

[wingspan213]

I wonder what happens to unruly drunk passengers that are dropped off in Jakarta? Interference with an International airliner. I couple of nights in a Indo goal with a severely widen ring will fix em!!

Why did the Captain even opt to go back to OZ? DUH!! Slap on the wrist and they do it again anyway. Commercially irresponsible i say. Bring the aircraft to the closest online port and drop off the passengers that don't listen to your threats of having them arrested in a foreign country.

[Kangaroo Court]

Depends how far out you. What happens if they start getting into a brawl and some innocent bystander gets killed in the violence? Then you'd be saying the crew should have got them all on the ground sooner.

Good job crew; bad job management for not arresting and pressing charges.

[Metro man]

Pity it happened before the ETP. On arrival in Singapore they would have been arrested and handcuffed, then locked up. No free lawyers, no juries. A large fine and possible caning with jail time.

In China the police would have given them a good kicking. In India they would spend months in jail waiting for the case to come up, not a pleasant experience ;)

Arseholes like these need to be dealt with in the only way they understand.

[Old 'Un]

I wonder if it's possible for any pax, singular or multiple, to bring a civil action under the CAR 256 (?) provisions if the pax was/were seriously inconvenienced (missed a connecting flight) or incurred additional expenses because of these morons' actions? Possibly any action could be brought against those who were intoxicated or against the airline for allowing them on board in the first place. A potential undesirable side effect could be that crew may be 'in the gun' for allowing intoxicated pax on board.

Anyone with air law experience like to give an opinion?

Le Vieux

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"A potential undesirable side effect could be that crew may be 'in the gun' for allowing intoxicated pax on board."

______________

Lets see.

Five pissed passengers are allowed to board, causing so much mayhem that within 1/2 hour [supplied NO alcohol onboard] the flight has to return to offload them.

Two or three of them so maggoted that they have to be held in custody as they can't look after themselves and you're suggesting someone is going to be held accountable???

Outrageous, absolutely outrageous :rolleyes:

[airtags]

Action would in civil arena and therefore would have to name offenders as defenants - in common with J*. Sadly this action would not go far as the ticket T&C's preclude any remedy and unless there is a conviction against the offenders then it's (another) flight to nowhere!

Even if it did get up against the offenders they probably have no money or assets and you would have to fund the action with little prospects of being awarded costs ....

...best bet would be to take Westy up on his very gracious and ill advised duty of care quote and settle for nothing less than a freebie or a starclass upgrade.........if the negotiation gets hard - offer to erase the video of the incident on your phone or alternatively threaten to email it to Today tonight.

As for the bogan-class offenders....well that's why God gave us buses trains and cruise ships.

[Max Talk]

Coming back from the Isa into CS last Friday night, we had a ******** become a total asshole on the flight. Had the boys in blue to meet him on arrival, and arrest him on board. He has since had Federal charges laid, and is due to front the court on Dec 11th. Word is, he should do a bit of time. Will be interesting to see. :=

[Walter E Kurtz]

So Jetstar did not press charges? And so there it ends? Must it be this way?

I dealt with a drunken fight on board a flight over India. After landing, weak company representation wanted to do nothing, go away problem please, no publicity thankyou.

I personally insisted prosecution of the offender to local authorities. I checked on him a month later, he was robbed of his savings and rotting in a rat infested cell, without vaseline, awaiting a trial he was doomed to lose. He may still be there today :)

This approach is probably untested in OZ, but surely an Australian Commander has by the authority of his license power to press charges independently from the employer? Bring it on.

[Ejector]

Jet Star should have them charged so these pricks will have a criminal record and will have a hard time comming to oz again. To bad for the pax who had a $300 hotel room booked in Singapore or connecting flights they missed.

Jet Star, Blow me.:D

[Devil Dog]

Get over it..neither QF or Jet* management could give a flying f**k about pushing charges in relation to such behaviour ..too much adverse publicity and besides its only the travelling public..who cares certainly not Dixon and his daisy chain..woof! woof!

[Going Boeing]

Get over it..neither QF or Jet* management could give a flying f**k about pushing charges in relation to such behaviour ..

Wrong, QF mainline always press charges in these situations - it looks like the Jetstar management were weak in this case.

[Capt Claret]

it looks like the Jetstar management were weak in this case.

To press charges, the crew involved would have to make themselves available to be interviewed and make sworn statements to the authorities.

There may have been pressure from the company not to do this, or, the crew involved may not have wanted (for whatever reason) to further delay the service, so declined to pursue the matter.

[Devil Dog]

GB that's bulls**t ..you must be management

[Going Boeing]

DD, you are totally wrong - definitely not management. I have had a case on my aircraft where handcuffs were required. Police at an overseas location interviewed the offender then released him. Qantas management were furious but justice was served when he entered Australia 6 months later - he was arrested and charged.

Management stated that they would always prosecute as the effect on other pax was severe and they wanted to deter any repeat offences.

Clarrie, good point but the crew could have completed the sworn statements on return from Singapore.

[Gear in transit]

Clarrie, good point but the crew could have completed the sworn statements on return from Singapore.

Hmmmmm done this sector lately on a JQ service???

After originating about 6 hours earlier from MEL, several hour delay in DN (Normal) to clear customs and await connecting pax, departing 1/2 hour into the trip, returning, ejecting the pax, refuelling then another 4 hours to SIN. I don't reckon sworn statements by Singaporian authorities was going to be at the forefront of the crews mind when they arrived.... :ugh:

It's a pretty big day as it is!

[Ken Borough]

GiT has painted the scene for the crew. Does it mean that charges were not pressed to satisfy the commercial agenda of the carrier?

[Azamat Bagatov]

I believe airlines worldwide should adopt a new procedure for handling drunks on board aircraft.
We've clearly seen the arguments put forth relating to immense operating costs the airline incurs by diverting, offloading the pax etc, not to discount delays to other pax and the consequences of this...

So, what I suggest they enforce is the good ol' use of 'Negative Psychology'

If the b#stards want to get nailed and are a nuisance to cabin crew/passengers, the cabin crew should prepare 'the final blow' - an extremely potent alcoholic beverage that'll turn out their lights, so to speak. Then, once passed out, handcuff them to their seats (don't want any irregular convulsions now, do we) place a paper bag over their heads, serves as a chunder-catcher (holes for the eyes of female offenders - if they're pretty (ducks)) and finally record their 'hour of power' on video, a momento for their award-winning stage act. This way, the aircraft hasn't diverted, the remaining pax will meet their flight connections, and costs are maintained to the originally planned budget....minus a few bottles of liquer, of course :ok:

Asta la vista, baby !