bye bye KAps

[mcdude]

as title, no more hats @ ka... CX to follow in 2038! :ok:

[boocs]

So it's Ops normal then....

[Hoofharted]

The long sleeved class
can kiss my @rse
I'm allowed to ditch my hat at last
I'm still at work and off the dole
you can stuff my hat up your hole
:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

[splutter_puff_bang]

Now that was Farkin funny. Nice one Hoof.:D

[snoop doggy dog]

Pure Class Hoof !!! :ok:

[nigel744]

And you presume to call yourself professionals, a sad day indeed!

[Hoofharted]

hey nige, please refer to previous post (no.3).
Love and kisses :E

[KRMQQ]

It is amazing how some people confuse professionalism with wearing a hat! Must be ex airforce brainwashed mindless person. Professionalism has NOTHING to do with wearing a cap! Grow up kids - it's 2008.

[Tassie Devil]

Wish I could find mine so I could throw it away:).

[mephisto88]

So where is one now expected to store one's tie, name tag and epaulettes whilst in the pub?

I guess one may also assume that the decision would have been fuel based rather than one based on years of tradition unhindered by progress.

The bean-counters must have worked out that (Lack of hat weight + removal of associated, but no longer needed, hat hanger) x N crew x Y flights X 365 days, minus cost of Haeco hours for removal, would = 3/8 of a nano gallon/year.

Now if only we could get rid of the long pants and graduate to T-shirts, shorts and desert boots. No dress thongs please - we do have standards!

[And Then]

Don't know what the CX guys a croaking about professionally. The Chief Pilot of KA is a loaned pilot from Cathay Pacific who I haven't seen wear his KA hat since the exchange began. So it must be a CX directive the caps are going- saves 50,000 USD per year too.

We get spoon fed CX SOP's- 50's Royal Air Force & Boeing- but lose the hats. :ok:

[ACMS]

Nope, Hats staying.

We pitch ourselves at SQ and guess what...............they wear hats as all professional Pilot's do.

[captncannot]

We pitch ourselves at SQ and guess what...............they wear hats as all professional Pilot's do.

Did.

Along with waxed mustaches, scarves, gloves and goggles.

But hey, whatever makes ya feel really special :}

[volarecantare]

Interesting...this subject came up in discussion in a non airline environment., i.e people who pay our bread and butter. As passengers they said there is a certain amount of security in seeing a pilot in FULL uniform looking proud and polished, they felt it them of his attention and care in his job which in turn made them feel in "safer hands".



I've always felt proud to wear my Uniform and Hat. In fact I have am proud to be a pilot. I don't wear longs sleeves and if I ever do I won't be apologising to any of the upstarts on this site who really it seems need a dose of the real world out there. Throw out your uniforms lads, with your manners dignity and the rest and sure soon the will be look like a shower of nobodies who deserve to be treated like crap by management.

Respecting your Uniform, your colleagues your profession and yourself, I would go as far as to say probably reflects on your performance as a pilot!

Its not the "WE" are special but what we do is and we should have respect for that, the way you carry your uniforms gives out a message to those thousands of people putting their life in your hands.

[gliderboy]

If KA (and CX) were serious about the way we looked we wouldn't have changed tailors (for the worse) 3 times.

I always said "as long as they paid me enough, I would wear a clownsuit to work."

I just didn't think they would would take me up on the offer!!

Caps are a joke....and so are the pilots who think that the CAP makes them professional!

Gliderboy

[Bob Hawke]

Just a thought here. I have always been one not too fussed about the hat myself. However recently I was talking to one of my collegues at Virgin Blue in Oz. He tells me that the "dumbing down" of the uniform, although a very good idea in promoting the low cost concept, working mans airline idea, it also had the disasterious effect of gaining almost no respect from Cabin Crew, Ground Staff & Managers alike. He wasn't sure if that was just the corporate culture that was being adopted, but certainly felt that without the correct uniform it much harder to command respect, from the backend, bottom end, ground end, where ever, when you just don't look the part!

So loosing the Cap, not such a bad thing, but making the uniform any less official or casual might invite the same kind of problems they have in Oz.

You got the bad boy!

[CXtreme]

The problem is not the hat. It is when the hat become a line check issue. Personally to me its part of a uniform, but I would not be worried if a crew member don't have a hat, and yes, I am ex military. Not RAF though.

[ACMS]

yes of course the hat don't maketh the man but......don't you guys have any pride in your appearance?

volarecantare said it very well, so I post it again.


Interesting...this subject came up in discussion in a non airline environment., i.e people who pay our bread and butter. As passengers they said there is a certain amount of security in seeing a pilot in FULL uniform looking proud and polished, they felt it them of his attention and care in his job which in turn made them feel in "safer hands".



I've always felt proud to wear my Uniform and Hat. In fact I have am proud to be a pilot. I don't wear longs sleeves and if I ever do I won't be apologising to any of the upstarts on this site who really it seems need a dose of the real world out there. Throw out your uniforms lads, with your manners dignity and the rest and sure soon the will be look like a shower of nobodies who deserve to be treated like crap by management.

Respecting your Uniform, your colleagues your profession and yourself, I would go as far as to say probably reflects on your performance as a pilot!

Its not the "WE" are special but what we do is and we should have respect for that, the way you carry your uniforms gives out a message to those thousands of people putting their life in your hands.

[And Then]

I wish I had a hat to dip to your 3% payrise ACMS. But I don't. Neither does the loaned CX pilot flying with KA- take it up with him.

The CX culture is loaded with insecure lunatics. I caution KA pilots on integration.

[ACMS]

whatever mate..............

Pilot's that wear their rank slides skew wiff, have their tie loose, shirt tail hanging out and NO HAT look crap and don't do justice to their profession.

Have some PRIDE man.

[And Then]

I would suggest you are sweating the small stuff: industrially and professionally.

Your professional pilot group is a poisoned chalice. Who wear nice hats.

[ACMS]

What are you smoking?

[Karrupted]

Look on the bright side - all that money KA will save on hats will help make sure you get your 13th month!

And if you're that worried about appearances, how about having a go at all the overweight, unhealthy 3/4 bars on your side of the fence ... where does personal pride start and stop?

There have to be bigger issues ...:bored:

[lexxie747]

volarecantare:
very well said.
i dont particulary like hats, my first one vanished over the caribbean long ago,never had one since.
come to think of it,do mexican pilots wear hats?

[And Then]

Once again, could the CX pilots who have a problem with the lack of hats at KA take it up with your CX colleague at the Dragonair Chief Pilot's helm.

Do CX pilots wear their hats when venturing out in the cabin for a toilet break or leg stretch? I think they should. It looks professional.

[Sleeve_of_Wizard]

soon the will be look like a shower of nobodies who deserve to be treated like crap by management.


Soon..............???

I don't mind wearing my hat, as long as I have shrunken it vertically. I hate looking like an Argentinian General........ My head is big enough.

[A. Le Rhone]

Caps make my head hot.

Then my mascara runs.

I look like Marilyn Manson. That's not a look that inspirse confidence in my passengers.

[airamerica]

Thought you left Vermin,obviously not,especially for someone so vehemently opposed to KA or anyone joining it. Said you were back in England,but obviously you are not from there either. Enjoy your 13th!

[Hoofharted]

I would go as far as to say probably reflects on your performance as a pilot!

Fark now I know what the problem has been. I'm gonna make sure I wear my hat everyday of my next sim ride and really ace the p.c.

What incredible pomposity.

[old rope]

One poster associated the lack of hats with the "dumbing down" of the industry, one only has to view the posts on this thread to realize it is not the hats that are the culprits, it's the twits standing under them.

[airamerica]

What a sad little individual V. The more of the likes of you around, a bunch of obscurists, the more you make the Amish look like vulcans.

[moosp]

I don't feel I need a hat to feel professional, but several studies over the years have suggested that airline crew in a hat give out more confidence to the traveling public. Oh public...

I hate the things, but what I hate the most is that cx choose the cheapest milliner in China to make them, and we end up looking like demented South American generals, whereas a properly made uniform hat can be quite fetching to the ladies. That I believe is their ploy, as in many ways in the last ten or so years the demeaning of the pilot workforce has been the aim of many managers outside of flight operations.

When we tried to get rid of the hats around 12 years ago (using cost as the reason, they cost HK$456 at that time) the then DFO said that the edict came from London that CX pilots shall wear hats.

So there it is then. :ugh:

[volarecantare]

"I began wearing hats as a young lawyer because it helped me to establish my professional identity. Before that, whenever I was at a meeting, someone would ask me to get coffee"
Bella Abzug

If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.
Red Adair

By day, or on a cloudless night, a pilot may drink the wine of the gods, but it has an earthly taste; he's a god of the earth, like one of the Grecian deities who lives on worldly mountains and descended for intercourse with men. But at night, over a stratus layer, all sense of the planet may disappear. You know that down below, beneath that heavenly blanket is the earth, factual and hard. But it's an intellectual knowledge; it's a knowledge tucked away in the mind; not a feeling that penetrates the body. And if at times you renounce experience and mind's heavy logic, it seems that the world has rushed along on its orbit, leaving you alone flying above a forgotten cloud bank, somewhere in the solitude of interstellar space.

— Charles A. Lindbergh, 'The Spirit of St. Louis,' 1953


When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

If we are not proud of our jobs, and of what our uniforms represent to the people who place their lives in our hands, then rather than throwing out the hats in themselves a symbol of that pride then maybe you should consider another career, this is more a question of dignity and respect than anything to do merely with hats. Sadly the dignity of our profession is being eroded and with that, our ability to protect and demand even our basic rights which effect moral, lifestyle health and potentially the accumulative effect of this, does effect safety. I believe Mr O Leary thinks along the same lines and some regarding the futility of hats and uniforms of hats, of course he also things Pilots are on the same level Mac Donalds managers and bus drivers....maybe you should join him.
The UK's Guardian newspaper wrote in June 2005 about Michael O'Leary: . "I am not a cloud bunny, I am not an aerosexual. I don't like aeroplanes. I never wanted to be a pilot like those other platoons of goons who populate the air industry."

[bigPONDsmallfish]

hare hare Volare....Well spoken sir!

[boocs]

For all of these expressions of Professionalism, pride in the job, yadda yadda yadda, don't forget that there was never (as far as I am aware) any consultation with the KA pilot group over whether to keep said hats or not; the decision was simply handed down. Do you think KA management believe that their pilot group will suddenly become less professional due to lack of a hat?
I am extremely confident that the vast majority of pilots in KA feel no less professional than they were 2 weeks ago when they were wearing their hats, I also have the same confidence in that close to 100% of the KA pilot group are happy to see them gone.

If you honestly believe that wearing your uniform hat makes you feel more professional, perhaps you should keep it on at all times. Mr. V. I think you may be reading more into this more than actually exists. My only regret about losing the hat is now I have nowhere to store my ID card, wings, pen etc etc.

[oicur12]

Moosp,

" . . but several studies over the years have suggested that airline crew in a hat give out more confidence to the traveling public. Oh public..."

Can you point me in the direction of one of these studies. I have seen studies that indicate that the travelling public couldnt give two hoots what we wear, especially considering that they no longer see us.

Hats and ties and wings and gold bars are a display of old world thinking. Shouldnt we strive to evolve and adapt to a new world. Does revenue still work with an abacus?

[Dixi Normus]

Saw a major European airline crew with a shirt that looks a used motel bed sheet and it was not tuck it. However he was wearing his hat, which I think he used as a pillow in the bunk. It is not what you wear but how you wear it. If only the judges and lawyers would get rig of their wigs.

[volarecantare]

Think you are missing the point a bit...but young men, be careful what you wish for...you are slowly walking your profession into the realms in which you will be sure to be treated wit the "respect we are deemed to deserve". No one is suggesting HATS make the pilots. I agree also its the WAY the uniform is warn also but if you cannot see the bigger picture of the direction we are all heading then well maybe we deserve what we get.:ugh:

Remember the days that in an emergency the Captains Hat would distinguish him AS the captain in order to take control of emergencies, evacuations etc and to issue a sense of control in a panic situation....but of course in jeans and and shirt Im sure you will easily command the same respect in chaos...just shout loader eh or run out the door first, no one will no the difference.

[Bograt]

The legal profession have trialled (no pun intended) losing the wigs, but they were no longer seen as "detatched practioners and interpreters" of the law.

When they were perceived as being "just like the guy next door" - there was a marked increase in threats, and incidents, of violence toward them inside the courtroom; particularly in the Family Court, strangely.

Thats from a friend of mine who is a Judge in Oz

[moosp]

I see this thread made the first page of the SCMP on 1st Nov.

S'truth Simon, must have been a slow day on the wires...

[Frogman1484]

The Hats are a joke...get rid of them. As for the studies that the public wants them so that we look safer....bullocks! No such study exists. If that was the case we would all be wearing long sleeve shirts and our jackets all year round, plus I would be addressed as "Captain" in public or on the flight deck !

I can tell you now that the only place you will see cx crew with hats is in HKG, because of the dreaded hat police. On the out port they sit in the the nav bag.

The fact that we are "Degrading" our profession is also rubbish. I heard the same thing when all of a sudden you were getting Captains that were in their 30's and 40's and not in their 50's. The public is not going to feel safe flying with such a young crew...bullocks!

I say it again the hats are a wast of time and money and the public will not even notice when they do go!

[volarecantare]

Bravo Frogman,:D spoken like Michael O Leary...same grace insight and dignity. You are exactly the type of guy he needs. If you have access to a EU passport he would take you on as Chief Pilot and you can put them all in nylon shorts and t-shirts, paid for by the "goons" themselves.

Of course he may also allow you work part time to in Mac Donalds in those uniforms serving up the Bullocks you seem to like so much....
:ugh:

[yokebearer]

Airline Pilot on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/97603721@N00/2869134379/)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/symmetry_mind/2409296789/


Now thats the look we should all strive for.

[bluefish]

What's with the obsession for hats??? Why even make an issue out of it? Many airlines do have hats as part of the uniform, but don't make a big fuss about wearing them. If you like it you can wear it and if you don't like it you don't wear it. As someone pointed out the hat can be of some use in an emergency for crowd control purposes, so having it in your bag just in case is not a big effort...

As far as everyday work goes, hats is NOT what makes a pilot professional. I would even claim that the ones who make the hat a big issue are the ones who have lost themselves on a sidetrack and don't remember what the job is all about. Complaining about a colleague not wearing a hat is not professional. There should be more important things to think about. And if there are not - well then it's a sad thing for the whole profession.

Not wearing a hat is not what reduces the respect for our profession. Making it a big issue is.

[iceman50]

So once again we have the complainers who join knowing the uniform has a hat and want to change the system. Suppose they want to be able to show off their cool shades and bald heads / hairstyles cause that is wot a real pilot is these days. If you don't like it don't take the money!:ugh::ugh:

[discoveryman]

Question: How do you make a First Officer wear his hat ?

Answer: Give him a Command.

[so_tired]

i think that i might be able to sum up the great hat debate, by quoting the great...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:zzz:

[Don't Think]

I worry about people in aviation who talk about such trivial issues and elevate them to such high importance. Someone who is obsessed with such obscurity does not give me any confidence at all. Professionalism comes from learning your craft and then being able to competently carry out your duties to a high standard with a great deal of common sense thrown in. The key word being learning. I agree with wearing a uniform and that people should at least look neat and tidy. Whether there was a study or not, the public, on balance, would have some preconceived ideas about the way people look and dress and make judgements. It's how we are programmed in modern days. The unfortunate thing about that is, that the uniform, looking all similar, does not and should not become the metric of the intelligence that resides in it. Those of us in aviation who constantly rely on books to tell us what to do, a bureaucratic approach to flying, are the real concern. It was mention in a previous post about dumbing down of the uniform, I would suggest it's pilots who are being dumbed down by overly prescriptive and constantly changing SOP's (which is a danger in itself) not the status of the uniform. If you live by the rules you will die by the rules. Don't get me wrong SOP's are an important operational safety tool, however, there are a few incidents, that one can point to, that highlight quite well, that there is something more to aviation than any book or set of rules can give you. Furthermore, if you have 1500 pilots all reading the same thing, then you have potentially 1500 interpretations. But this is a whole new subject dealing with how adults learn and adult education which we do very poorly in the airline industry.

By the way if you are going to argue a position that the uniform maketh the pilot it would be prudent to at least source uniforms from professional tailors. The last uniform I received look so bad I threw it away and went and bought my own so I would look, funny enough, more professional.

Cheers :ok:

Don't think Don't think

[aumexican]

If I'm not wrong it it is impolite to wear a hat inside,:=(Take note Cathay staff you are beneath the non hat wearers)

Also unsafe to wear it during the walk around particularly during wind and I never stand around in public in a uniform so where do I wear it???

By the way I believe the new evac drill has a bendy stick with a flag on top for the captain, to be used in a evacuation as the locals when abroad will follow one blindly:ok:

[And Then]

I was asked to wear my hat and jacket to bed by a young lady from head office. It made and evil looking shadow and I felt stupid- but never as stupid as wearing the cheap, ill-fitting thing in the first place.

[T101]

Way to go And Then! :ok: Next time SHE should wear it. I recommend taking a picture as well - I have a few, very cute!

[And Then]

I tried that T101. She had short hair and I thought I was in bed with a cadet. :yuk: