New CAS

[Al R]

BBC NEWS | UK | New head of Army to be confirmed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7675206.stm)

"Air Marshal Stephen Dalton will step into the role of Chief of the Air Staff, replacing Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy."

Apres moi, le memoire?

[ExBux]

An inspired choice; a Top bloke and true Gent at the top of the RAF - everyone should believe that people really do matter with Steve Dalton at the helm.

Best news I have heard in a while :D:ok:

[Truckkie]

Lets hope he has a pair of b***s and the backbone to stand up for his troops then, unlike the current ****.

[round&round]

Does that mean that Sir Clive's man management and leadership qualities have finally been sussed. So for the man who said "if you don't like where the train is going, get off" has been passed over for the top job and had a junior officer made his boss. Sounds like a vote of no confidence to me - time for him to follow Sir Ian me thinks and throw himself off the train!!!

[Al R]

I'd be interested to know the mechanics of it all. Is there a formal interview process, are the candidates told 6 months before that it is a passive process, is it pre ordained a year or so before, do the other Chiefs have input as to whether they can get on with the new bloke, is he screened primarily for political savvy?

Or is it like electing the new pope, desined to be shrouded in mystery?

[Pontius Navigator]

Jacko will be pleased :) and a break from the Harrier Maffier

[StopStart]

So for the man who said "if you don't like where the train is going, get off" has been passed over

I always liked that analogy; I wish I'd been there at the time tho. Perhaps then I could've told him that whilst I was generally happy to be on said "rough" train I would've been happier knowing that a) it was serviceable and the wheels weren't about to fall off and b) the driver was actually driving the thing instead of randomly wandering about the carriages checking the passengers all had their PE kit whilst the train hurtled towards the buffers at Glasgow station.....

How far can I stretch this analogy......?

Anyway, given that my GSK stretches as far as knowing that we've got Phantoms at Wildenrath and JPs at Church Fenton, what's the new chap's background - not Harriers I take it..?

[Al R]

Yes, but the buffet car is closed and just around the next bend there is the wrong type of snow on the line.

[Chris Kebab]

SS - Jags.

A great choice.

[BEagle]

AIR MARSHAL S G G DALTON CB BSc FRAeS MCMI RAF

Air Marshal Stephen Dalton joined the RAF after graduating with a 2.1 honours degree in Aeronautical Engineering from Bath University. Subsequently, whilst based in the UK and Germany, he flew the Jaguar on 3 tours in the tactical reconnaissance and ground attack roles. During these tours he flew on exercises in Europe (Norway, Italy, France and Spain), the USA and Canada. On completion of the Advanced Staff Course, Air Marshal Dalton commanded No 13 Squadron flying the Tornado GR1A, during which he was deployed on Operation JURAL flying reconnaissance missions over Iraq; for part of the period he was the Commander British Forces JURAL for Op SOUTHERN WATCH in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Air Marshal Dalton commanded Royal Air Force Coltishall and the RAF’s Jaguar Force for 2 years from September 1997. On promotion to Air Commodore he was appointed as Director of the Eurofighter Programme Assurance Group in the Ministry of Defence London. After attending the Higher Command Staff Course in 2002, he was appointed the Director of Air Operations in Ministry of Defence, a period which was dominated by the preparation for and conduct of Operation TELIC - the UK contribution to the multi-national operations in Iraq in 2003.

A tour followed as the Capability Manager for Information Superiority with specific responsibilities for Command, Control and Information Infrastructure and for Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance. In April 2004 Air Marshal Dalton was appointed Controller Aircraft, a post which carried with it a place on the Air Force Board and which he carried with him into his next position when, in May 2006, he took up the appointment of Director General Typhoon in the Ministry of Defence.

In May 2007, Air Marshal Dalton was appointed Deputy Commander in Chief Personnel and Air Member for Personnel, based at HQ Air Command, RAF High Wycombe. He will succeed Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy as the next Chief of the Air Staff in July 2009 on promotion to the rank of Air Chief Marshal.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg


And for info., Stoppers, there are no Jags at Colt or Bruggen these days...:{

[dum_my]

From the MoD:

Currently serving as Deputy Commander-in-Chief Personnel, Air Marshal Stephen Dalton will take up post as Chief of the Air Staff on 31 July 2009.

Air Marshal Dalton will be succeeded in turn as Deputy Commander-in-Chief Personnel by Air Vice-Marshal Simon Bryant, who will be promoted to the rank of Air Marshal on taking up his new appointment.

Air Marshal Christopher Moran is promoted to the rank of Air Chief Marshal and will take up the post of Commander-in-Chief Air Command and Air Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen. He succeeds Air Chief Marshal Sir Clive Loader who is retiring.

[Pontius Navigator]

A tour followed as the Capability Manager for Information Superiority with specific responsibilities for Command, Control and Information Infrastructure and for Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance

Before Dii/f I hope.:{

[Scribbly]

He's a very nice chap who really does have a genuine interest in the welfare of the troops. I hope he doesn't get turned by the political side of his new job, I guess that can happen to the best of them. I am looking forward to his time at the top. Anyone know who is replacing him as AMP?

[Jackonicko]

I know that not everybody likes him, and some people I respect who know him far better do seem to have reservations, but with the luxury of being entirely unaffected by his appointment, I am over-joyed. I haven't spoken to him since he was a one-star but in that job (a difficult one which he did very well, and still found time for journos), and as Coltishall staish, I had some dealings with him, and he was an absolute joy.

Journo chums and I have been discussing this since before the weekend (I was the dimwit who said "surely not yet, is he senior enough already?"), and in this limited circle there was consensus that he's a very good bloke indeed, posh as can be (is he Lord Melchett's talented younger brother?) and with beautiful manners and interpersonal skills. Modest, self-deprecating, appreciative of his people, personally able, and with a great sense of humour, as a Staish and a one star he CERTAINLY had balls and drive. (But I'd recognise that many blokes with those attributes seem to lose them as they scramble higher up the greasy pole).

And as a Jag mate, he should have a healthy scepticism about the process of sloughing off more and more engineering function to BAE, having had direct experience of Jaguar 96/97. He'll also have a good idea of maintainability, deployability and expeditionary ops. He has a Tornado squadron 'tick in the box' and his Typhoon knowledge will be unrivalled among very senior officers.

I'd want to congratulate him, and add further to the burden of expectation!

Well done, sir, and jolly good luck.

PS: Why wasn't it Chris Moran? He must have been 'next in line' and he always seemed switched on and very able.

[NUFC1892]

AIR RANK APPOINTMENTS LIST 7/08


Air Marshal S G G Dalton CB to be promoted Air Chief Marshal and to be Chief of the Air Staff and Air Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen on 31 July 2009, in succession to Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy GCB CBE DSO ADC.

Air Marshal C H Moran OBE MVO to be promoted Air Chief Marshal and to be Commander-in-Chief Air Command and Air Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty The Queen on 3 April 2009, in succession to Air Chief Marshal Sir Clive Loader KCB OBE ADC.

Air Vice-Marshal S Bryant CBE to be promoted Air Marshal and to be Deputy Commander-in-Chief (Personnel) Headquarters Air Command and the Air Member for Personnel on 1 April 2009, in succession to Air Marshal S G G Dalton CB.

Air Vice-Marshal R F Garwood CBE DFC to be Chief of Staff (Operations) Headquarters Air Command in July 2009, in succession to Air Vice-Marshal N D A Maddox CBE who is retiring from the Service.

Air Commodore B M North OBE to be promoted Air Vice-Marshal and to be Air Officer Commanding No 22 Group/Chief of Staff Training Headquarters Air Command in July 2009, in succession to Air Vice-Marshal R F Garwood CBE DFC.

Air Commodore G E Stacey MBE to be promoted Air Vice-Marshal and to be Senior British Military Advisor to United States Central Command on 18 March 2009, in succession to Maj Gen J H Thomas DSO.

[threeputt]

With all the comings and goings, what happened to AM McNicoll?

3P:confused:

[VinRouge]

Anyone know what the new CinC(Air) is like as a chap?

Anyone know if Clive Loader has got off the train then?

[Jackonicko]

The new CinC Air is very good with journos. Very sharp, very open, and very personable. I believe that he was a good squadron CO, years back.

[Blacksheep]

Capability Manager for Information Superiority with specific responsibilities for Command, Control and Information Infrastructure and for Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance. Is that a bit like a Chief Intelligence Officer (CIO) then?

[Grimweasel]

Excellent news. With ACM Dalton at the helm we just might have a chance of surviving the 1ooyr experiment! LOL
Top man, who actually cares about people for a change

[Wader2]

Anyone know what the new CinC(Air) is like as a chap?

Anyone know if Clive Loader has got off the train then?

Mind the live rail Sir.



Gone in a flash?

[2Planks]

Great News, my personal forecast was for SD to be CAS in 3 years time. Also wondering what is going to happen with AM McNicholl??? And a navigator as a three star - perhaps the biggest surprise!
:D:D:D:D

[Archimedes]

Let's hope that the curse of Pprune approval doesn't hit ACM Dalton -

Look at this (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/214922-acm-torpy.html) thread from two years ago and see how the consensus was that the incoming CAS was a top chap. Now, the poor s*d can't seem to breathe without being criticised...

[skippedonce]

And no mention of AM David Walker. I know he has a 'polarising' effect on people, both in and outside the RAF, but he is very much his own man and prepared to stand by what he thinks (even if others reckon he's a few sandwiches short of a picnic). Kamikaze into the airliner anyone?:eek:

[Sideshow Bob]

Let's face it, it doesn't matter how good a guy he was or what a great boss he was. We all know that the higher they go, the more they change. More power and more pressure, both things that will cloud a man's perception of what is happening around him and, of course, those below him will only tell him what it is they think he want to here, "yes everyone is happy, morale has never been higher"

[Vox Populi]

Anyone know what the new CinC(Air) is like as a chap?

Switched on is correct. Had his enemies along the way, but I liked his decisiveness and he usually made the right call. Very bright.

[greycoat]

I notice that AVM Bryant gets promoted. If you have received a letter assuring you that the lost data isn't an identity theft risk to yourself, his is the signature at the bottom of the letter! Clearly accountability doesn't apply, or maybe the Peter Principle has been applied.

[Flap62]

New CinC(Air) wasn't known as TCM while staish at Wittering for no reason!

[Nobody In Particular]

What with Glen and Clive moving on...2 lilly-livered political 'yes-men' out of the way...'thanks for your efforts' but totally ineffectual and YOU WILL MOSTLY BE REMEMBERED for over-seeing the 'death' of the RAF.....

What chance have the 2 new blokes got..no money..over stretched, moral all time low and ........ by now a third rate Air Force (not due to lack of effort or commitment from the troops I must point out) .....thank you Labour!

RIP..

oh dear....the downward spiral continues...

[AdanaKebab]

Simon Bryant was an inspiration to me, as a junior officer, a decade ago at Leuchars. A true gentleman and a real leader, unlike many already mentioned. Promotion couldn't have happened to a more worthy man.

[Moose57]

Sir Glenn has done a great job moving the RAF on, despite the best efforts of the politicians. Sir Clive......another story....
Steve Dalton and Simon Bryant are really top guys. They know ops and they connect with people. And they deliver. We should be in good hands.

[sisemen]

In May 2007, Air Marshal Dalton was appointed Deputy Commander in Chief Personnel and Air Member for Personnel

So this would be the aircrew mate that oversaw the introduction of the much loved JPA system was it?

Top man, who actually cares about people for a change

An inspired choice

:{:{:{

[NP20]

So this would be the aircrew mate that oversaw the introduction of the much loved JPA system was it?


Sorry to disappoint but JPA was introduced/inflicted on the RAF on 1 Apr 06, a while before AM Dalton assumed responsibility as DCINC Pers.

[muttywhitedog]

The man who oversaw that has now retired from the RAF and is now a consultant for.....

EDS!

So at least one bloke benefitted from its introduction.

[Grimweasel]

Think JPA was a product from Pocock, (AM) the then DCDS Pers.

[goneeast]

I noticed that the army chap in the BBC article is wearing US star type rank badges.. is this to prevent confusion, or "friendly fire" from hyped up US Marines? :}

[Biggus]

Sir Glenn is currently 55. I thought air rank officers could serve until they were 60?

If that is so, what would have happened if he had not elected to reitre? Has the post of CAS only come up because he is retiring, or is it a time thing. As I said before, if his time in post had come to an end and he didn't wish to retire then what would happen.........

[endplay]

Archimedes; Top work wih the thread link, it said everything that I was thinking about the euphoria over Sir Glenn's appointment. I only met the new guy once but I worked with/for a family member of his who seemed surprised and delighted (in equal measure) at his appointment to AVM so I wonder what he's making of this latest elevation.

It would seem that it's "Events, dear boy, events," rather than individual ability that matter once you've climbed to the top of the pole.

Has anyone got a nominee for the best CAS of recent memory (say the last 90 years or so?) I'd throw Peter Squires hat in the ring myself, if only for his people skills.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Moose57

Sir Glenn has done a great job moving the RAF on

Can you explain to us just what exactly you think Torpey has done for the RAF, and perhaps you could tell us in which direction you think the RAF has moved since his appointment?

I don't know this new guy, but IMHO anyone has to be better than Torps'

TSM

[Wingswinger]

It seems like only yesterday that Glenn Torpy got the top post. Have Air Officers tours been compressed in recent times to make sure everyone gets a go? Where's he going? Surely he's not retiring at 55?

[nigegilb]

Would appear that anyone wondering why "Torps" moved on so quickly should look no further than the Nimrod scandal. What was the phrase, "as safe as it needs to be?"

Sorry if Air Marshal Loader got overlooked because of Nimrod. He did a great many aircrew an enormous service by his candid remarks in the BoI conclusion. Not just words either, the Strike, sorry, Air Command Engineering Squad is a visible sign that air worthiness malaise is being tackled.




Air Marshal Clive Loader passed over for top RAF job
Michael Smith
THE man tipped to take over as head of the RAF was passed over after criticising the failings in the system that led to the deaths of 14 servicemen in a Nimrod aircraft over Afghanistan in September 2006.

Air Marshal Clive Loader, the current head of Air Command, who was widely expected to take over as Chief of the Air Staff did not get the job after being deemed not “single-service oriented enough”.

One senior defence source said: “It’s insider code for not being prepared to say what was best for the RAF. Put bluntly, his criticism made Glenn Torpy [the current Chief of Air Staff] look bad and Torpy gave him the thumbs down.”

The charge of not being “single-service oriented enough” was particularly damning for Loader with a senior RAF officer, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, as Chief of Defence Staff, and all three services fighting for an increasingly small proportion of the defence budget.

Gordon Brown has vetoed any public signs of defence cuts but with a £1.5m black hole in the defence budget there is widespread acceptance a number of major programmes will have to be axed with the Joint Strike Fighter seen as the first in line to go.

Loader not only criticised the problems that led to the loss of the Nimrod he also opposed Torpy’s attempts to buy Predator unmanned aircraft which exacerbated the MoD’s funding crisis.

Torpy, whose hopes of an extension to his three-year term in charge were destroyed by the Nimrod scandal, recommended Air Marshal Steve Dalton, the air member for personnel, instead for the top job.

Dalton was one of three names put forward to John Hutton, the new Defence Secretary, for the next heads of the three services and will take over in July next year.

The other two were Lt-Gen David Richards, the head of Land Command, who is to be the next Chief of General Staff, or head of the army, replacing Gen Sir Richard Dannatt, in August 2009 and Adm Sir Mark Stanhope, the Commander-in-Chief Fleet, who will replace First Sea Lord, Adm Sir Jonathon Band next July.

While the Nimrod disaster ended any chance Torpy had of a second term, both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.

Dannatt in particular angered Gordon Brown with his willingness to speak up on behalf of his men and call for the end of the Iraq deployment.

[Flap62]

If you ever feel like a giggle, try to find the flight safety video from the mid 80's set in Belize (think it featured a mock harrier crash). It features a young Flt Lt Loader.

How amusing to hear him as a cheeky chappy god blimey guv cockney and marvel at how he has morphed into the urbane gentleman we see today!

[Al R]

Cheers Nige. It would seem that Loader was deemed to be not crab-centric enough.. by Torpy? I know that perception is often far removed from the reality, but that made me smile.

But following on from that, it seems that if you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't anyway, you have the choice. Be either hung for a sheep or a lamb.

“It’s insider code for not being prepared to say what was best for the RAF. Put bluntly.. Torpy gave him the thumbs down.” The charge of not being “single-service oriented enough” was particularly damning for Loader with a senior RAF officer, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup.

.. both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.

[Chugalug2]

While the Nimrod disaster ended any chance Torpy had of a second term, both Dannatt and Band have been seen by the politicians as being too out-spoken in defence of their own services.


Which sums up Torpy to a "T", not out spoken in defence of his own service and presiding over the internal destruction of the airworthiness of its aircraft leading in turn to their destruction. Close the door behind you please Sir.
As to Loader, a system that persecutes those who point up its shortcomings is corrupt, and his being passed over says more about the dire need for reform of the rotten mess that is the MOD than it does about him. Tough break for us though, probably the best CAS we never had.

[Proletarian]

Being passed over for CAS must have come as a bit of a shock for Sir Clive, bringing to an abrupt end a fairly meteoric rise – in retrospect I guess his career peaked just a little too soon!

I first met Clive in 1973 at RAF Henlow where he completed IOT rather than Cranwell, having been booted out of university for failing his first year exams - something that appears missing from his CV.

I also seem to recall that within a few weeks of the start of the course Clive demonstrated a degree of personal commitment and began his ascent up the greasy pole when he started knocking-off the Chief Instructors daughter – the current Lady Loader – good skills!

Proletarian

[Chris Kebab]

..not exactly "that" meteoric if he was commissioned in 73 to be honest.

[BlackIsle]

Bit out of touch maybe ( sorry and ready for incoming) but where is John Cliffe or where did he finish up if he has retired?

[Wrathmonk]

Personally I don't think you'll see any change when Mr Dalton takes over as CAS - he is of the same mould as Mr Torpy. However with Mr Moran as CINCAIR, if his time as ACAS is anything to go by, you can expect a lot more concepts and doctrine, management speak and sitting on the fence. Our best bet for the future must rest with Stu Peach - but as a navigator it is very unlikely he will (be allowed to) progress [upwards] beyond his current (next?) appointment as CJO. I suspect he will disapppear into NATO once his time as CJO is over.

Has anyone seen it written down that Mr Torpy is to retire? I've seen it in black and white that Mr Loader is to retire but not the current CAS. With all the single service chiefs standing down within weeks of each other next year (if I recall correctly) do they still all have aspirations to be the next CDS? Look beyond them all and appoint Gen Lamb instead. Love to be a fly on the wall when the Defence Board meets if he was CDS! :ok:

[dum_my]

A few years ago a 1* told me that once you reach 2* rank, in any Service, if you do not have another job at the end of your current tour, then you are required to retire.

[Al R]

If Sir Jock Stirrup will remain in post until 2011, we can assume that the g'ment did not want General Dannatt to succeed him, and one assumes, that rings true for antone else least of all someone from the same service. So, further to what Wrathmonk said, what option does Glenn Torpy have but to leave? And if there's no other job upstairs who on earth would want him around? Would Brown want Blair back as Foreign Secretary?

[AED24]

Wrathmonk - Sir Glenn Torpy is to retire, see RAF - News By Date (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive.cfm?storyid=09F30537-1143-EC82-2EB72F201EAA1799)

[endplay]

You are almost right, IIRC, but I believe it starts at 1 not 2* and is called "Directed Retirement". Basically, if you can't cut it then you are out!

[Melchett01]

You are almost right, IIRC, but I believe it starts at 1 not 2* and is called "Directed Retirement". Basically, if you can't cut it then you are out!


Unfortunately, cutting it at that level has very little to do with cutting it as pretty much any other sane individual or indeed businessman would understand. More to do with appeasing politicians and accountants and than providing effective and practical leadership.

Although by some accounts, the manner in which many of those at currently at the top of the RAF greasy pole have been promoted or retained suggests they are indeed 'cutting it' as far as the politicians are concerned. According to suggestions from SO1+ level at my end of the trench, the defeaning silence from the likes of CDS, CDI etc has marked the RAF out as a politically astute organisation that knows how the play the game at the highest levels, and is in contrast to the Army and RN's 'rants'.

However, if in being outspoken and actually sticking up for his men, Dannet was not 'cutting it' or being politically astute, quite frankly I think you may as well elect the head of the RAF rather than appoint them if that's what it takes to succeed these days.

[Al R]

Melch,

Out of interest, I wonder if this 'politically astute organisation' can extend itself to decorating married quarters and barrack blocks, get returning troops home from Bze Norton without making them wait around for 9 hours for MT and employ people who can explain why the wages are f#cked again?

[Melchett01]

Al -

Good question that deserves an answer. Now which answer would you prefer?

1. The politically astute answer.

2. The truth.