Aerodrome or Area?

[grizedale]

Hi, I have recently been accepted to train to be an ATC and I was wondering on the pros and cons of picking either aerodrome or area training.

[121decimal375]

:ok:Area in my opinion but Im sure others will rightly disagree. What ever you do Im sure you will enjoy it

[simfly]

have a good search in this forum, the question has been raised many times by folks in the same position as yourself. There are pros and cons for both, sitting in a big room infront of a radar, or looking out over an airport is one to start with. Verbatim or not to verbatim is another ;)

[chevvron]

If you want to look at planes, it's aerodrome. If all you're interested in is the money, it's area.

[Ivor_Novello]

sitting in a big room infront of a radar, or looking out over an airport is one to start with

or training as a TWR controller and end up in a big room infront of a radar ;)

[SINGAPURCANAC]

TWR/APP
for right boys and girls. :ok:

[skyman01]

Having been fortunate enough to work in TWR / APCR / and TMA at Manchester, I can honestly say that the best seat in the house was Approach radar, followed by TMA radar and then TWR. After some time, Aerodrome and APC became bureacratised (?) through being in the position of a contractor, just like Servisair or Aviance! All the fun was taken out of the job because of the customer / client relationship, and the hassle from external sources (MIA / Operators etc) was endless.
TMA work is challenging and dynamic and we retain control of the whole operation. TC controllers will tell you the same, but at the end of the day, it's your personal choice.

[Beejam]

It's nice to look out the window at planes but the novelty wears off....I think most would agree area is more challenging hence more rewarding.

Regarding making friends out side the ops room: Yahoo there's no law against making friends however big your operation!!!!

In fact to go one step further it's better to be at a large unit IMHO since there's bound to be a few people you get on great with. If you go to an airport and there's only 5-10 on your watch and you don't have much in common with any of them then work could become a real drag!!!

[niknak]

There are pro's and cons to both disciplines and frankly anyone who considers
area to be more challenging than twr, or vice versa, is completely deluded and clearly has no real experience.

The comments about the people you work with are equally irrelevant, there are oddbods in both disciplines, just as there are good people in both, ultimately they are only work colleagues, not your best mates.
Yes, there's more money in area, but if you opt (more likely told that is what you are going to do), you'll never see the light of day again, area people don't get an aerodrome ticket anymore and it's highly unlikely that you'd ever get the chance to be retrained.

If you get ADC/APS then you go where you are told, but after a couple of years you can apply for any vacancy at any airport. ADC/APS gives you flexibility and in my opinion it;s a far more entertaining job. Additionally, if you ever want to leave NATS, you'd easily be able to get a job anywhere in the UK, whereas the great unwashed in area are stuck to a very limited choice.

It's swings and roundabouts, really depending on where you see yourself in ten years time.

[kinglouis]

and with the current pension mess, a career with nats could only be 10 years until you move on to pastures new.

a shot in the foot for nats as many people i know are already looking AND applying elsewhere. but as they still train you for free, go for it.

area, approach, adc.... ive done some tower and now london tma. its all good fun. enjoy and best of luck

[Beejam]

niknak..you are joking when you say that area is not more challenging than twr yes?

If you're not joking then I suggest only one person here is delusional and that person definitely has no experience of area.

"Great unwashed in area" that statement speaks volumes about you and your attitude.

Before you ask....

Yes....I'm area.
Yes....I have a TWR ticket
Yes.... I've worked at a tower.
Yes.....The area course has historically been longer for a reason.
Yes......Lots of people at towers are bitter about TC/AC because they failed there and got shuffled off to a nice easy tower to validate.

Please don't take offence as I'm oiled at the moment but regarding your "great unwashed" statement a wise man once said " he who lives in a tower shouldn't throw stones"

[vespasia]

beejam

niknak..you are joking when you say that area is not more challenging than twr yes?

Think you'll find that niknak added the caveat "or vice versa":=

Some TWRS are more challenging than some area sectors, and vice versa.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Beejam

I always try and remember the PPRuNe Standing Agreement after a night on the sauce (although sometimes forget I admit :E)

D.P.P

Don't Post Pissed :ok:

[Jetset Willy]

From someone else who's currently trying to decide between them, I think this is a really great thread, the comments on here have certainly been helpful in giving pro's & con's for both, and I'm sure it will be a source of hot debate!

Without having started at the college yet, or having any experience of either discipline, I think it's sometimes hard to make that decision from the outset... (I know we're only asked to state a "preference" though!) :)

[niknak]

Beejam

the term "great unwashed" was meant as an attempt at humour, clearly your grumpy firewall put paid to that..:p

As I said, swings and roundabouts, there are challenges to both disciplines and I wouldn't decry anyone for having a firm opinion that one was better than the other.
Unless you want to work outside the UK, area does have it's limitations regarding moving elsewhere whereas twr/aps (in theory) gives you flexibility.

Think happy thoughts.:ok:

[Beejam]

I was only "mucking about" but have my opinions which I'll wager are contrary to yours. ;)

No problem, live and let live that's what I always say.


Maybe I should try the instruction "hold position" next time I get in a pickle on radar to see if it helps? .:p

[vespasia]

Maybe I should try the instruction "hold position" next time I get in a pickle on radar to see if it helps? .

:D:D:)

Maybe I should try it with the 747 on half mile final with another halfway down the runway!:O:ok:

[anotherthing]

As long as you don't try it the other way round vespasia :ok:

[Scooby Don't]

"Hold position" seldom works on final, or on base or downwind for that matter. But then, it is only the UK that sees area as the "big" job with big rewards. Elsewhere in the world, terminal/approach is the job for the elite. :ok:

[anotherthing]

Getting a bit off topic... to bring it back

Grizedale - worry (or should I say concentrate) on passing all your coursework, whatever you get selected for. As someone has said, each discipline has its plus points and I'm sure you will enjoy whatever you get given.

If you do well enough on the aforementioned coursework, you may even get picked for TC, but don't feel too inferior if you don't make the grade :E

[Beejam]

Elsewhere in the world, terminal/approach is the job for the elite.

Terminal is the top job I agree. Also worth noting that Approach for the main UK airports is integrated into TC in the UK. But just so you are clear
Terminal control IS "Area" control.


Maybe I should try it with the 747 on half mile final with another halfway down the runway!

"Hold position" seldom works on final,

No, but it works on taxiways,aprons even runways. It doesn't work anywhere in an airspace sector.

[Scooby Don't]

Beejam - outside the UK, Terminal is most certainly NOT Area control!!!

I suppose someone had better tell Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen that they are NOT major airports according to Beejam, but Luton and London City are...

[ZOOKER]

AREA = Butchery.
APPROACH = Surgery.



Edited by the Mod

[fly bhoy]

Edited by the Mod

To the original qustion and sensible posters however...as for area/approach, its horses for courses...personally, sitting in a artificially lit room staring at a screen all day doesn't appeal. Certainly wouldn't say that tower is by far and away easier, although the next time i've got 4 aircraft heading towards each other on the ground i'll remember to just use vertical separation...oh...hold on...:}

FB:ok:

[PPRuNe Radar]

Doesn't take long for someone to start the personal attacks on this board does it ?? They're not welcome and are not seen as 'friendly banter' by PPRuNe.

They END here. Anyone wishing to make them in the future has only themselves to blame for any action taken against them.

[rej]

I can only comment from a military point of view but area would win it every time.

Yes it is great fun to run a busy radar pattern or control in the VCR but personally I think that the area radar task gives you a much better perspective of air traffic control and is, as has been said before, much more rewarding.

However, which ever way you end up going, one thing is for sure. You will enjoy your career. Good luck

[grizedale]

Ok, thanks everyone for the (mostly) useful replies, definitely given me something to think about.

[GhostUK]

Whats the pay diffrence between an Area controller and an aerodrome?

Also is 'area controller' the same as 'approaching controller'?
I dont recall seeing area controller in the S1 motivation paper.

Also I've noticed no one meantioned 'ground movement controller'.. any reasons why?

[Gonzo]

GhostUK,

Ground Movement Control is one aspect of Aerodrome control. at a quiet airport you might have one ATCO working. S/he is actually doing Ground Movement Planning, and Ground Movement Control, and Air Control.

At Heathrow, we are so busy we have to separate those jobs out, so we have one Ground Movement Planner ATCO, three Ground Movement Control ATCOs, and two Air ATCOs.

Some Approach Controllers work at Swanwick in London Terminal Control, others work at the airports they serve (Birmingham, East Mids, Glasgow etc).

At Heathrow Tower, we earn roughly the same as ATCOs at Swanwick, and all NATS' airports are banded for pay, so that Gatwick earns less than Heathrow, etc etc.

[classicwings]

Gatwick earns less than Heathrow, etc etc.ARRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! It's the return of the big ATC Pay Comparison debate!

[Gonzo]

Errrr, no it's not.:ugh:

[GhostUK]

thanks gonzo

[classicwings]

There you go GhostUK, once you finish your Dispensing Optician job and join NATS, you can then make your ambition to be a Ground Movement Controller sitting along side Gonzo in Heathrow Tower. Best of luck mate.:ok:

[Gonzo]

The ignore list grows.

:rolleyes:

[classicwings]

Gonzo. Your a man (I presume?) with great wit and also I'm sorry to say, no life.;)

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

One thing to bear in mind in the Aerodrome/Area argument is the mobile contract you sign when you join the company....

You sign up for area then you know there are two sites your career is likely to end up at; and also whichever posting you get, there will be people from the college that get posted there with you.

Aerodrome is a different ballgame. Its NSL business need, and there are a lot of aerodromes you could end up at. Where you are from; or even where you want to be have little influence at the end of the day. And there's a big chance you will be posted on your own.

When applying it is normal to take the mindset that you don't care where you go. But posting day, especially for aerodrome candidates, can be an interesting time. Mobile contract means mobile....