How often does your engine(s) fail.

[Fuji Abound]

It is interesting from various threads on here, when high time pilots comment there is an uncanny correlation between hours flown and failures occurring at a rate of between one every 1,000 to 1,500 hours.

It is certainly my own experience.

What do you reckon?

[Lister Noble]

A couple of years ago I had one shortly after take-off,very rough engine due to mag failure on 1 and partial on 2,despite both showing good on engine run up,I managed to land safely at home airstrip.
On the engineers strip down, one mag had total failure of drive gear and other intermitent loose contact.
I had only recently obtained my PPL so should be OK for a few years now then!
;)
Lister

[Contacttower]

In about 400hrs the closest I've come to complete engine failures.....

Engine suddenly stopped completely during aerobatics in a Firefly; probably fuel flow interruption caused by a very rapid attitude change. Hitting the start button while diving towards the ground restarted it almost immediately though.

Two partial losses of power in a Super Cub; first time the engine gradually lost power before stabilising at about 1800rpm.....instructor reckoned a cylinder or two may have stopped working but examination on the ground could reveal no problem and after starting up again it produced normal power. Second time some sort of problem with the carb heat was causing a 500rpm drop on application. About a year later the aircraft suffered a complete engine failure on take off probably due to carb icing (possibly having built up on the ground); this time someone else was flying it though.

Only other incident which could have turned into an engine failure was when I started the engines on the Twin Comanche not realising that the supposedly inop and empty tip tanks were engaged on one side; the engine ran for about a minute before just running down from lack of fuel. If there had been more residual fuel in the lines and I hadn't done any power checks the engine could have decided to go during the take off roll.....which wouldn't have been funny.

[RMarvin86]

It would also be interesting to read how people managed the failure and if they behaved according to trained emergency drills. I think no one will be complete calm under such a huge stress so how did fear, emotion and adrenaline make you react?

EDIT: how was the ATC comm, did you manage to make a standard 3x mayday call or did you rush over the frequency about problem(s) and your intentions?

['India-Mike]

Two precautionary forced landings with power. (Lycoming O-235, PA38)

First (at 350 hours) was intermittent rough-running due to inlet manifold gasket breaking up - assume it changed fuel/air ratio in that cylinder.

Second (at 500 hours) was rough running after takeoff at 300'. Again induction problem but this time a broken primer pipe.

One forced landing without power (at 770 hours). (Gipsy Major, DHC-1)Crankshaft snapped.

Now approaching 1000 hours. I'm overdue something:\

[IO540]

I think that - Thielerts aside - any data collected is going to be meaningless, due to the wide spectrum of engine maintenance and operation practices.

[WorkingHard]

Agree with IO540 about the data. Had a partial carb ice problem years ago and more recently when flying over very inhospitable terrain a rough running engine. Immediate action was set best course for nearest airfield (LBA at the time) and then sort out what may be wrong. Stabilised engine with less than max revs and landed safely. It turned out to be a suppressor shorting out a mag. DID NOT DO A MAG CHECK until safely down. Always taught not to as if that is the case and you get a dead stop then when resecting the good mag a lot of damage can result from unburnt fuel / air mix.

[Fuji Abound]

My intial post wasnt about data collecting - I was just interested to see amoung the higher time pilots what their personal experience was.

Of course as with all things if it were a scientific data collecting excercise issues like maintenance would average out. You would have some pilots who always flew the same aircraft, were highly selective about their maintenance organisations and always overhauled their engines at the first sign of trouble. Clearly their failure rate would probably be much lower than anyone elses.

However, as I said, that wasnt the purpose of the post - it was purely a straw pilot to see how many people had got between 1,000 and 1,500 hours and had a failure (or indeed a failure on less hours) and how the failure rate progressed as their hours went beyond 1,500.

.. .. .. so please keep the comments coming :D.

.. .. .. and also if you have had a failure, whether or not you handled it by the book - that would also be an interesting discussion.

[Piper19]

No incident in my first 120 hours, apart from hitting the hangar door when pulling the a/c outside :ouch:
I always wonder how I would behave in a real situation. I sometimes practice simulated forced landings, but in such exercises you always know what is gonna come plus you are not stressed because you know it's simulated.

[Lister Noble]

Maybe a better place to get some more relevant answers wold be in the commercial pilots spot?
I asked my old CFI when I was learning ,and he said he had had 4 or 5 forced landings in 50 years flying.

[IO540]

I know of some "old" twin piston pilots who had something like 10 engine failures in a few thousand hours, but I never asked them who maintained their engines, whether they did oil analysis, did they run them at 65% 75% 85% 100% (??) power?? Max CHT? You name it.

Data from the USA suggests the MTBF of a typical IO-540 type engine is several tens of thousands of hours. With a 2000hr overhaul period and everything (supposedly) NDTd at that point, the vast majority of pilots should never see an engine fail catastrophically.

Yet only the other day I saw a big piston twin, with a brand new overhauled engine (maybe 10hrs on it) throw a conrod out of the crankcase. The big end split. I would really like to know whether the outfit that "overhauled" that engine did any NDT on the conrods - or anything else!

If you are an aircraft owner, you have a multitude of methods of drastically improving the odds. Like not using known cowboys for maintenance, and following best-practice engine management methods.

If you are a renter, then you don't have that control. But you do have an advantage: the plane is probably flown so mcuh by others than if it is going to break, it is likely to break when somebody else is flying it :)

[rauxaman]

Once only with a single engine and I can tell you it's a very sobering experience seeing that prop stationery through the windscreen and listening to the air whistling by.

The handling was a lot more "earthbound" than on any PFL exercise.

Fault? All mine, pulled the mixture right back instead of throttle after take off and then I dead-sticked onto the cross wind runway.

I could not believe how I could not stop my legs shaking after the experience, my knees were literally knocking when I landed!!!!

[gasax]

900 odd hours two partial engine failures.

Fuel pump meaning the aircraft would only fly uphill for a limited period! Abbreviated circuit.

Cylinder head crack giving 3 cylinders over hostile terrain - kept it going until I reached Lossiemouth and declined to declare an emergency as it was Sunday lunchtime at an RAF airfield! But a couple of klicks of tarmac makes you confident!

[Pilot DAR]

Gasax has presented a good point. What is an engine failure? Failure to develope full power? Failure to develope any power? Failure to turn at all? Failure to feather?

There are many cases where an engine has suddenly decided to fail to develope full power while in flight. The surprised pilot took this to mean that a crash was inevitable, and followed through with it. When the true cause of the engine failure was later found, it was something like a stuck valve, blown out spark plug, or other very local failure, which would only affect one cylinder. With a six cylinder engine, you've still got five pulling for you. It's gonna shake like crazy, but it will continue to develope adequate power for level flight, you may as well take it somewhere where it can be landed safely, and fixed. For fun, I was particing 65% power takeoffs in the amphibian, it came off the water well, and allowed me to hone my technique. When you have the space, partice reduced power takeoffs, you will be surprised how well the plane performs!

In my younger foolish days, I was sent to fly a Cessna 150 off the ice, while conditions still permitted, becasue the pilot had landed it there with a stuck valve. The falure was diagnosed, and checked, with a ground run. With lots of takeoff room, and the easy opportunity to abort the takeoff, I flew it home. A Cessna 150 will safely takeoff at 2100 RPM, when enough space is available. It shakes a lot though.

Recognizing the nature of the failure, and the resulting need (or not) to conduct a forced approach, is, in my opinion, something which is not well taught. New pilots get the slightest shudder in the engine, declare an emergency, then land, hopefully on a runway. I hope pilots can be encouraged to evaluate the failure, and react with informed caution. If you're flying a single, and the prop stops in front of you, yeah, you're landing soon, if you don't get it running again, other than that, plan your landing, just in case, but try to keep it flying, and work your way to a good place to land, you might make it!

Pilot DAR

[IO540]

The thing is that if the prop actually stops, and the airspeed is anything like cruise, the engine is unlikely to restart because it must be well jammed. In that case, I would conserve battery power for flaps and gear operation, rather than sending hundreds of amps into a starter motor which will just jam solid as soon as it engages.

[Pilot DAR]

I agree that if the prop has been seen to actually seize to a stop, an attempt at a restart is a waste of battery. I can't be caught writing on here that a restart should not be attempted though.... This harkens back to more thorough training for unusual circumstances, and giving the new pilot enough background knowledge to make good decisions.

Pilot DAR

[dublinpilot]

In 300 hours, the worst I've had is a bent push rod on one cylinder. This resulted in a rough running engine (running on 3 cylinders), which was somewhat down on power, but no problem maintaining a reasonable speed, and returning to the field.

dp

[Pace]

Fuji

I do not trust Pistons too many moving parts to go wrong :) I have had 3 failures 2 partial and 1 full in light twins.

If we are talking about light twins then i think you have to regard the second engine as "more" options.

The full failure happened on a nearly new continental engine at Grosse at at 200 feet on the climb out. Having sheared 3 rocker shafts it kept going albeit with much reduced power and a lot of vibration.

Following investigations found incorrect torquing of the shafts at manufacture and the whole unit was replaced with a new engine by continental within two weeks with an apology.

I could tell by the feel that if I pulled the engine and feathered it I would have gone down so elected to keep it going with one hand ready on the prop lever until I had some air under the aircraft and managed to level her into cruise flight. Then I shut it down and brought it back to a single engine landing.

It was the right call in that situation. As I said in a light twin the other engine gives you more options. More options means the option to make a mistake or make the right call.

Maybe I did not follow procedures but in that particular situation the correct procedures would have had me in the ground. Thank God I used my head and my instincts and not procedures.

Pace

[Rod1]

I have had one total engine failure, crank broke on takoff and one partial, very rough engine due to mag failure on 1 and partial on 2, despite both showing good on engine run up 2 hours earlier. The first time I just got away with it, the second was more relaxed as I was only loosing about 50ftm. That is in 950 hours. Both problems were traced to faulty parts and maintenance. Moral of tail, take a big interest in the maintenance of your engine and it is much less likely to fail on you.

Rod1

[BigEndBob]

None in the last 7,000hrs flying PA28/C152's.
Previous 3,000 hrs to that;
One engine stopped whilst practising pfl's on my ppl course.
One engine fire after carb problem caused rich mixture cut then flooded after landing causing fire.
Piston break up on C150.
Exhaust valve dropped in PA28.

[Them thar hills]

Well at least with only one engine, if it's stopped you know where you're going !
I can't claim any total engine failures but...
No1.. VW 1600 blew a bottom plug out on the climbout at 800ft and left me with no upwardness at all, so I scraped round part of a circuit and landed into wind on a not-normally used piece of the airfield. Had I landed ahead I wouldn't be writing this !
No2.. Zero oil pressure en-route, so was compelled to land on what I could see and glide to... which happened to be Elvington. The pool of oil underneath the aircraft proved I did indeed have a problem (the oil cooler had failed)
No3 .......Hmmmmm !
:hmm:

[Maoraigh1]

If you decide to keep the engine running with severe vibration, is there a risk of breaking the engine mounts, and losing the engine? That would lead to an impossible c of g situation.

[Pace]

If you decide to keep the engine running with severe vibration, is there a risk of breaking the engine mounts, and losing the engine? That would lead to an impossible c of g situation

Its a hard call lesser of two evils. I didnt determine that the vibrations where too severe to cause engine mounts to break :) but decided that with the feel of the aircraft shutting one down would have meant down and only down so kept it going for a while!

As it was things turned out OK as it was the right descision in that particular situation.

When you are in a real situation like that you will know what I mean.

Pace

[welliewanger]

One of my instructors (crusty old pilot type) had 5 engine failures.

Another one only had one... in nearly 60 years of professional flying!

I've only had one... when turning onto base over a town (so no option of a pfl). But it was quickly resolved when I realized that the student had got the carb heat and the mixture levers muddled up! :eek:

[spittingimage]

Hmm. Never had a clanking engine failure myself but an old instructor colleague told me once he had had eight over the years. Impressed, I asked then his considered advice about avoiding them. 'That's easy', he said, 'Don't fly cr@p aircraft !'.

[weido_salt]

My engine fails me everytime I get into the air. It fails to deliever the power I need to have the 6000'/min climb rate I dream of!!:ugh: