Merged: Qantas:The Trashing Of A Brand

[Captain.Que]

The recent near riots in the Sydney Qantas Club were the first on the East Coast.
On Christmas Night 2007 in Perth the same situation occurred.Federal police were called to the domestic terminal as several delays and near 40 degree temeperatures (in the terminal)brought passenger anger to flashpoint.
In Perth this was not the first time.
The emotional attachment Australians once had for Qantas has been severed.
Years of clever emotive marketing and brand building have been destoyed.
The CEO Geoff Dixon is responsible.
He has deliberately neglected his customers and his staff.His focus has been the shareholders.It is instructive to note that Dixon and his senior executives are substantial shareholders.
The creation of executive wealth has been the sole intention of Dixon and his cronies for the last seven years.The sense of entitlement displayed by these corporate deceivers is breathtaking.Dixon rubbed his hands with glee at the prospect of $60million coming his way from the sale of Qantas to private equity.
An obscenity of the greatest magnitude.
Qantas Aviation Fuel is hedged at $US72 for the remainder of this year and favourable hedging is in place for most of next year.
The strong $A is also Dixons ally.
Yet he uses rising fuel costs to deny Maintenance Staff a 5% pay increase.
Dixon will not deny himself or his executives an enormous bonus this year.
Customers have been over serviced for years and staff should be grateful to have a job...so says Dixon.
The Qantas Corporate culture is toxic.No one will make a decision for fear of reprisals.Those that do make decisions see as far ahead as the next bonus.
Why should anyone be paid a bonus to do a job that they are already being generously remunerated for?
Are pilots paid a bonus to fly the aircraft?
Are Ground Engineers paid a bonus to maintain the aircraft?
In an egalitarian democracy like Australian how does this continue unchecked ?
There is something seriously wrong when a corporate vandal in a Gucci tie is allowed to continue larceny on a such an enormous scale.
When Dixon leaves will there be anything left to salvage?
So many questions and no bloody answers.

[DEFCON4]

During Dixons tenure the Qantas network has shrunk.
The Qantas Group now has less than 33% of the Australian Aviation market.
When Dixon took over Qantas had 42% of the Market.
How do you turn a big airline into a small one?
Employ Dooff Dixon as the CEO.

[Dragun]

Qantas now has less than 33% of the Australian Aviation market.
When Dixon took over Qantas had 42% of the Market.


It'd be my guess that most of that was intentional morphing of the white roo into the pointy thing.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-"
"It'd be my guess that most of that was intentional morphing of the white roo into the pointy thing."

-------------

Jetstar are a bit player on the international scene.

Doesn't Emirates have something like 57 flights a week into Australia???

[Dragun]

Intentional, not international...

[Keg]

It'd be my guess that most of that was intentional morphing of the white roo into the pointy thing....

....until they paint the grey aeroplanes white and stick a red tail on them! :eek: :suspect:

[The cougar]

Dixons's toxicity has flowed on to even the most junior manager in Qantas Engineering. We are constantly told that we cost the company to much, and when asked what management intends to do about morale they say what is morale, aren't you getting paid. When aircraft come back from overseas MRO's they are on the ground for more than a week to fix all the problems with them in double the time it takes to do it properly here. All engineering managers have no operational back ground and work from a text book and a stratergy chart, and to top it off they have just employed 8 more ops managers for the Sydney region alone to find out what is going on with the schedule. These people are so far removed from the real world it is frightening! Rest assured gents the LAME's left are still keeping the excellence in the Qantas name quicker than management can remove it, but for how long I am unsure.

[hotnhigh]

How much longer is it going to take before the chairman or the board act on the demise of Qantas that is happening right before us. Every frontline worker is united in their hatred of Dixon and his management team for their slow destruction of an airline.
As for trashing of the brand, well events reported by crews passing through singapore tell of another clanger in the grand scheme of things. A 744 ferried sydney to london with 3 passengers. What was that about fuel saving??

Unfortunately it appears this was the result of events that are now occuring on a daily basis at QF. Staff in singapore also have said more than 1000 passengers have been moved to other carriers, in the last week alone, in reponse to the ever increasing delays and destruction that Geoff and his team have created.
I wonder what Chairman Cliffords reponse is to all of this? Amazing his silence and lack of a statement to what is going on.

[Bill Woodfull]

...think of the bright side, your CEO picked up a 500%+ pay rise in about 6 years and the shareholders are happy. Aren't they?:ugh:

[Sunfish]

Read up on industrial psychopathy - it's not a criminal thing, it's a behavioural thing. Also read up on narcissistic personality disorder and the narcissist as manager.

Once you get one of these in the top job, they hire others like them because people who suck their way up like to be sucked up to by their subordinates.

The narcissists deliberately get rid of anyone competent below them who may be a threat to them (for example anyone with the knowledge to contradict their ideas) and replace them with sycophants who are also narcissists.

Thus their rotten behaviour trickles down through the management structure over time.

Look for:

- a total contempt for those below them. ("Legacy Airline", "Dinosaurs", no future)

- complete lack of empathy with other humans, leading to occasionally bizarre or anti social behaviour. For example, Mr. Dixon's letter to the residents of Hamilton Island when QF was swapped with Jetstar.

- Dreams of absolute power and other fantasies.

- a huge sense of entitlement - massive rewards for themselves (The APA bid, The Christmas bottles of Grange, bonuses, shares)

- Believe they are superhuman ("The Board and Management of this company have done more than ...."). They create dumbass business strategies to boost their own egos, for example I reckon J* Asia was set up so that GD could be Chairman of something.

- and of course lying, cheating, scheming and backstabbing comes naturally to them because they have no conscience at all.

Look it up yourselves.

[DutchRoll]

I was holding off putting this onto pprune, but this seems as good a thread as any. It blew my mind at first, then I thought "nah, that's not really a surprise at all".

Scene: Couple of days ago in Mel, waiting for a flight which I was paxing on. The service counter staff were pretty p*ssed off about something, and upon enquiring, this is what they told me:

The day before, a flight to Syd was overbooked by a couple of full-fare seats in Business Class. They were about to go through the process of apologetically contacting some people to see if they would travel on a different flight.

Guess who calls the manager and says "Me & my entourage are going to Syd on QF xxx. Book the seats now."?

When he was told "we're really sorry Mr CEO. The flight is oversold and they're all full-fare business." What was his response?

"I don't give a sh*t. We're going on that flight. Offload them."

I wonder if any of them were also Qantas shareholders? I mean, it's obvious to everyone, or most people at least, that Dixon has gone completely barking mad, but is there an end in sight? That is the question.

[Bobster]

Are the shareholders happy?

Share price from a high of $6-06 down to $3-32 yesterday.

Yeah, I'm sure they're happy.

[argus.moon]

A few years ago Dixon created havoc with LHR groundstaff regarding seats for him and his wife.
Again he wanted full fare P/C passengers offloaded to accommodate his travel requirements.
Guess he didnt check southbound availability before he left Australia

[speedbirdhouse]

Makes me want to puke whenever he travels as his boarding is preceded by the nervous and breathless ramblings one of the "premium liason staff".

"Oooh, oooh" goes the nervous ninny as they shift their weight from one foot to the other with terror in their eyes, as if they are busting for a piss. "Mr [stops to swallow] Dickson on board today" like he is some kind of f#@king god.

The last I heard he was actually a STAFF MEMBER:rolleyes:

Rarely do I get this for any actual paying passengers.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

The company is run like some tin pot African dictatorship with dickson and his team at the helm together with their pathologically twisted, sense of entitlement.

[speedbirdhouse]

I know someone who works in the marketing department for one of the big two Australian insurance companies.

Late last year she and others in her department where involved in a coaching development program run by a third party consulting company.

Whilst I don't know who ran the course i do know what it was about.

It was ALL about brand management and how manage and leverage from, quality brands.

Qantas was specifically used as an example on how not to manage your brand:ugh:

[dragon man]

When GD was appointed CEO of QF he is made the trustee of the airlines brand for his term. That means up holding its reputation for safety, customer service and goodwill. When he departs that reputation should have at least been maintained if not enhanced. He and his team have failed completly. If the board and new Chairman are unable to see that Rome is burning and dismiss the current management team them the institutions who are the major shareholders should call a special shareholders meeting and vote out the entire board. They dont want to delude themselves Rome is burning, they are fiddling.

[Ngineer]

Sunfish, your posts are interesting but one thing does not make sense. Why would a narcissist employ others like himself? If he did this, would'nt he be constantly watching his back for the knife weilding narcissists below him?

[UDP]

Screw it into the ground and let the government bail it out. Thats GD's motto.
I remember AN had 767 trouble before their demise.

[blackguard]

Certain types of individuals become drunk with power authority and money.
They become deluded and believe that the rules and laws of society
no longer apply to them.
Dixon and the upper echelon of Qantas management have reached this point.
They are above everyone and everything.Reality for them no longer exists the way it does for the rest of us.
Enron and HIH are just two companies run by people like Dixon.The megalomaniacs that ran these corporations eventually went too far and are now incarcerated.
Dixon just may escape the same fate by virtue of an early exit.
In this there will be no justice.
It will just verify to Dixon that he is untouchable.
History will not treat him well.Hindsight will see him for what he is...a vile putrid human being bereft of any business acumen what so ever.
He has been aided and abetted by the likes of Oldmeadow, Gregg and Joyce.
If Gregg or Joyce replaces Dixon Qantas will continue to wither away to nothing more than an oxidized bronze plaque on a building somewhere in Mascot .
A great tragedy that no one seems able or willing to prevent

[WynSock]

Easy on there Blackguard,

you're holding on too tight!

[UDP]

I remember a certain Mr T (CEO of Ansett) that popped a couple of mill $$$ into a New Zealand bank account 3 days before they closed the doors for the first time. (FACT not Rumour)

[bulstrode]

When dixon goes to that Big Hangar in the Sky I would like to know where he is buried so that I can ensure that the site is adequately watered every year on the anniversary of his passing
Heh Heh Heh.
The Water will be personally filtered.

[Sunfish]

Ngineer:

Sunfish, your posts are interesting but one thing does not make sense. Why would a narcissist employ others like himself? If he did this, would'nt he be constantly watching his back for the knife weilding narcissists below him?

Nope, they don't have to watch their backs once they have narcissists below them because they deliberately hire less competent people who know that anything less than complete and abject loyalty will result in instant punishment and dismissal. Those hired know that (since they are usually incompetent) their only protection from being "found out' is their boss - who doles out favours and big bonuses to those that please him the most. It's like a mediaeval court surrounding the King. Everyone says nice things to the king. Anyone who isn't loyal gets their head chopped off, and the guys that please the king the most get made into Dukes (or today, Group General Managers).

To put it another way, narcissists "play with people" the way you or I would play with a dog or a cat, and they have no compunction about setting one onto another just to watch the fight. They can also "calibrate" an individual pretty well, like we can work out which dog is dangerous to us - and the dangerous ones get "put down'.

The only way Qantas will get put right is when the cleaning out starts from the very top of the Board, and if the Chairman is a Narcissist (don't know if the current one is, Marg definitely was) then that is not going to happen. If you leave one narcissist in the system, they will systematically work their way up the ladder again, knifing competitors in the back as they rise.

[Alien Role]

And an adjunct to the narciccist is the "peter principle" where those of like nature worm their way to the top of an organisation to "achieve" a position of incompetence!!!

Role on.......

[maybegunnadoo]

From the ABC........'nuff said

Sol Trujillo's payout when he leaves Telstra will be 93 million dollars and some of us will ask how he earned it. 93 million dollars would keep ten small theatre companies going for a thousand years on the interest alone. 93 million dollars would fund a month of the Iraq War.

It's a thousand times the annual wage of a New York fireman. It's three hundred times the annual wage of Kevin Rudd. In a bank earning seven percent interest, it would make him 17,835 dollars a day. 743 dollars an hour. 12 dollars a minute. A dollar every five seconds.

It's a lot of money. How did he earn it?

Well, he asked some of his undermanagers to sack thirty thousand Australian workers, disrupting a hundred thousand lives. He raised the cost of owning and using a phone by, oh, about 17 percent. And that's about it, really. 93 million dollars. With interest after fourteen months, it'll be a hundred million dollars.

What CEOs do for their money is something we never ask. The CEO of Sydney Airport makes sure planes land safely, the way they always have. The CEO of London Water makes sure clean water comes out of the tap, the way it always did. The CEO of Qantas makes sure its planes fly safely while sacking more and more of its tired staff.

CEOs sack people. That's pretty much all they do. They don't sack them face to face. That would be too much like hard work. They earn their seven or eight millions a year by asking other people to do the sacking.

And the average CEO has to sack a lot of people to make up for the seven or eight million dollars he's earning. With payouts, that adds up to, oh, 160 loyal employees for a start.

Their distress, relocation and search for another job, their children's interrupted schooling and loss of friends don't trouble him. They are things he doesn't need to hear. He's got his eight million dollars, and that's what matters. If he was offered any less – eight hundred dollars an hour, say, not nine hundred – he wouldn't take the job.

He's called a CEO because if he was called a boss he might sound harsh and sinister. Unions have bosses, corporations have CEOs. They're there to sack people, to improve the bottom line.

Many of them administrate what used to be pretty much government monopolies: British Rail, Sydney Airport, Qantas, ETSA, various ferries, buses, ambulances. These were 'privatised' because it was thought a corporation would run them 'more efficiently' (meaning they'd sack more people) because 'private enterprise' was more 'motivated' to do so.

But a CEO is not motivated at all. If he stuffs up he gets, oh, four, five million dollars to walk away. That's 280 thousand a year, or 355 thousand a year, in interest for the rest of their lives for failing. How can they be said to be motivated to succeed? A government minister, a public servant, is punished when things fail. A CEO is rewarded.

What are CEOs for? They sack telephonists and replace them with machines. They merge companies and sack a lot of duplicated employees. They move Mitsubishi out of South Australia to somewhere cheaper. They make a lot of people miserable and their shareholders richer; shareholders mostly born rich, like them. They don't gratify their customers, they put them in queues.

What are CEOs for? Without them, planes would still land at Mascot. Water would still flow through taps. Mobile phones would still get through to London in thirty seconds.

And a lot more people would be happy, working and settled, not scared every minute they'd soon have to rewrite their lives.

CEOs are actually a revisiting of the Divine Right of Kings. Nobody deserves that much money, that much power over lives. Nobody needs that much money. Sol's payout is a million times as much as a poverty-level African survives on in a year. What made him so kingly, so deserving? Did he ever repair a phone, climb up a telegraph pole?

Teachers are asked to show wage restraint, but not Sol. Nurses are told they ask for too much, but not Sol. Not till now.

Teachers save souls and nurses save lives, but not Sol. He just gets three dollars a second in his retirement for putting up your phone bills, and sacking the men that used to repair the lines, and wrecking your country town.

He's much more deserving than any nurse or teacher. A hundred thousand times more deserving.

Wouldn't you say?

[fourgolds]

Just back from the US on a trip and noticed Quantas Tele add over there
" The worlds most experienced airline " what utter B@#$@^t !
If they are claiminmg to be the oldest they are far wrong. This title goes to KLM.

[wrobinsyd]

:yuk:GD what can i say u are soul...death of a great Aust icon..

[Fris B. Fairing]

fourgolds

Just back from the US on a trip and noticed Quantas Tele add over there
" The worlds most experienced airline "

Oh dear, that's a worry. The last airline to use that slogan was Pan Am. There came the day when they had another "experience" and one of their newspaper adverts posing the question "When was the last time something exciting happened in your street" was juxtaposed with the headline "Part falls off jet hits house".

BTW there's no U in Qantas. In 1999 I found out that there was no me in Qantas either.

Rgds

[Keg]

If they are claiminmg to be the oldest they are far wrong. This title goes to KLM.

Whilst I don't like the claim that QF make, they are technically correct. KLM as an airline doesn't exist anymore which gives the title by default to QF. Air France-KLM is an airline holding company incorporated in France. They commenced operations in May 2004. :ok:

[404 Titan]

Keg

While Air France and KLM are owned by the holding company Air France-KLM in France I think you will find that they are still separate airlines based in France and the Netherlands respectively with their own AOC’s.

Every time I see the Qantas add in Hong Kong and the add campaign on the wall at Central MTR station I want to puke. It has extrememly bad karma written all over it if you ask me.:yuk::ugh:

[4PW's]

Maybegunnadoo, did you write that or did someone with the ABC write it?

I only ask as I'd like to acknowledge the effort of the writer. That's a hell of a piece. Well done!

Keg, mate, do you really want to associate yourself with the presumptuous claim Qantas are making?

[Keg]

I'm on record as not liking the marketing strategy. I think it's a joke and it makes my stomach turn as much as yours 404.

The reality is that KLM no longer have the mantle of the oldest airline. Just as QF wouldn't have the mantle if we 'merged' with BA to form a new company but continued to operate as QF. Of course, that may not stop them from trying but it wouldn't be right.

To be honest, I'm not normally one to get into the nitty gritty of technicalities. It means that you're probably pulling something dodgy but using the letter of the law to get away with it. By the letter of the law, QF is probably correct. I agree that it's a bit dodgy and I reckon it's a bizarre line to take in advertising for an airline. It reeks of desperation and resting on laurels- something I know the crew don't do but it concerns me if the marketers and commercial types feel that is a wise way of marketing the airline.

[Muff Hunter]

Whilst we are looking at CEO's, though not siding with them, movie stars, sport stars are making this much money and some much more and we don't seem to batter an eyelid, utterly disgraceful that anyone could take such large amounts of money when so many people cannot even afford food for a day.:(

[Tankengine]

Muff Hunter,

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Some of us say the same things about sports "heros":mad:

[hoss58]

Hi Muff Hunter.

At least with sportingstars and movie stars you get some entertainment for your money.

For example if you go to the cricket and your favourite batsman makes a ton youv'e porbabley had a good day out. i know i would have.:ok:

You go to the movies to see your favourite actor and you come out feeling youv'e been entertained and you think hey, that was good.

At least the sportsperson/actor has done something to earn thier money.

NOT SO CEO's:ugh:

Fly safe and play hard.

Regards to all.

Hoss58.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

F. O. G. :(

[The Professor]

The staff at Qantas have been "trashing" the Qantas brand for years.

In flight service at the pointy end has similar "hardware" as some Asian competitors but the "software" is in major need of overhaul. One only needs to read websites such as this to quickly learn that staff such as cabin crew and engineers wear their hatred and disruption to the business as a badge of honor. Ansetts demise was accelerated by similar industrial thuggery within some departments as union "leaders" happily pulled the temple down over thier heads. The same is unfolding at Qantas as strike breakers circle the pond.

Dixon is running a profitable airline that at one stage was the worlds most profitable under his stewardship. Running an airline is not a popularity contest, he doesnt care how slings and arrows are sent his wage but myopic wage earning pilots.

[Capt Kremin]

You would think a "Professor" would be a little more literate. Maybe that is not a prerequisite for a troll though.

[speedbirdhouse]

Amusing to say the least having someone from the US commenting with such conviction on matters relating to airline customer service...........:eek:

[Sunfish]

A quick read of the Perfesers posts suggest he is strongly anti employee.

[mel applied]

Glad you could make sense of the Prof. When anyone has an English translation, please forward it to me.

[oicur12]

Thought profs comments were spot on actually.

The smart arse responses (kremin/MEL etc) generally come from those who feel threatened or cant construct a genuine response.

[crank1000]

I think he is sticking up for GD! He seems to think that all employees are sackable at anytime to keep profits up. Of course this is absolutely acceptable.

I wrote a couple of posts on a similar thread (the new paint job on the A380's) about bad QF Service. Another Amercian chose to tell me I needed to see a shrink and that I wasn't happy within myself beacause I had been let down by an airline.
Why do Americans think they can lecture everyone on everything from my psychological state to how to run a business? I also don't think they they have the right to comment on good customer service either. Anyone flown AA recently?

I have flown on alot of carriers and trashed QF's service pretty badly. What I didn't get across to everyone is that I understand that when the troops are happy the service is good. When its not, it ain't!

[capt.cynical]

:eek: $3.28 and falling :{:ugh:

[Rawrawhammer]

I had breakfast, will I make it to lunch time.Probably not, the Pilot shortage will be over by then and no job at QF.But hey apparently they suck although they pay quite well but then again you're away from the wife kid for half the time.So is it really worth it?ask my self twice maybe four times and I still have to consider wether it is worth the effort but when really the effort doesn't play a big role here, considering the way up the ladder can be pretty enjoyable yet the money made is tight on the family and the relationship but hey..I'm a Pilot.:zzz:

[WynSock]

RawRawHammer,

thanks for that excellent bit of writing. :ok:Fabulous, you do us pilots proud.

Tell you what, QFlink are looking for people like you,
Perhaps you could apply here... (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobid=30950&CoId=189&rq=1)

Not too much effort required.

[assasin8]

Maybe the "professor" is going to be hosting the QF Board as they go over to NY to hold meetings with senior Airbus and Boeing reps!

Now, I'm obviously missing something here... Oil prices are rising rapidly, "the sky is falling", etc, etc, but the entire Board can fly to the US (I'm sure they'll be travelling economy to allow room for paying customers - you know, the ones that allow us to keep flying!)...

Geez, you'd think there was no such thing as video conferencing, internet, etc, etc... And why does the entire board need to be over there?

"Another bottle of Dom, thanks Charles...":mad:

[Dragun]

Rawrawhammer

sadfsdafsadfjksadfhkjashfoagopbspdbfvspdbspodsfboadsgfbnasdl fknbewrohweorihewojbvlakjdsfglaksdnflsadnfgladfbsaoldighvald sifhasldkgfbalbvalalsdkflkjsdaflkjewpiopqpwsnnjmcmzmzvhweoui h.

Regards,

Dragun

[stiffnut]

Hey Dragun Love it mate, maybe Rawrawhammer has had one too many chardy's

[fourgolds]

If one is to argue that they are the most experienced and they try to spilit the KLM / Air France AOC as an argument , saying that they are now one entity. Then logic dictates that one would have to combine the experience of Air France and KLM put together! Therefore they are by far the worlds most experienced airline. Any way you look at it , its really poor marketing. Besides how does one define "experience" , flying around Queensland in Cavok weather ? I think Bearskin airlines in Canada are more " experienced" than Qantas. What a load of crap !!!!

I think the corporate advertising logo should be " Arrogance personified"

[teresa green]

I wouldn't get your knickers in a knot to much lads, the way things are going only Emirates and Etihad will be the only Airlines going around, they seem to have their own oilfield each, if you can believe Aviation in The Australian today. If I were you I would brush up on your Arabic, and tell the missus your off to the sandpit:eek::eek:

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

OK oicur12 I'll retort the professor if you like, it's actually quite easy. The CEO of a company is the LEADER of it's employees. If, as the professor professes the employees are trashing the brand then the buck stops with him. It's actually a little myoptic to think that staff problems are not caused by bad management. It's also a little short sighted to blame said staff members when the whole thing falls in a heap on your watch.

Bottom line is start at the top of a failing or about to self destruct company rather than blaming the whole thing on the cleaner. Or more simply, if you think the staff are to blame for your brand being hurt look at the managers first.

Sorry for feeding the trolls people, couldn't help myself with the MBA professors style.

[drivabilongbalus]

Could someone please translate W.O.G.'s text into anything that resembles english, i'm lost. Perhaps i need one of those MBA thingys, maybe that'll help :confused::confused::confused:

Ahh, now i get it, thanks W.O.G., makes much more sense now, and i couldn't agree more

[whatever6719]

I think Whiskey is right on the money. It all starts at the top.
There was nothing difficult to understand there at all.

[argus.moon]

Qantas management are immune from responsiblity of any sort other than the the creation of executive wealth....which they are very good at.
Qantas Staff...all 36000 of them are responsible for everything else.
They are responsible for the lack of parts required to maintain Aircraft servicability.
They responsible for not having enough food to provide P/C pax for another helping of anything.
They are responsible for a dud IFE System...the list goes on....

[F-Class]

36000 staff?

How about 12,000 productive employee's

And 24,000 managers!:)

[Cost Index]

Close to the beginning of his tenure he came up with the original concept of an emotional and iconic series of ads, "I still call Australia Home"

This emotional attachment helped cement in the publics mind an airline that embodies Australian values and created a sense of pride.

Now in the twilight of his tenure he has succesfully severed this emotional attachment with cold blooded precision leaving a cynical public and staff in his wake.

Ironic Geoff? :suspect:

[Flugbegleiter]

For those interested in that ABC article about CEOs, here is the link (http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2270989.htm). What a fantastic article. It is time for the people to say "enough is enough". No one deserves the kind of money that these greedy CEOs are earning. Even some CEOs seem to agree with us on this (http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/Business/story?id=1362779).

[argus.moon]

With all these delays due to maintenance problems and 767 fleet in trouble the Qantas brand is heading for a place as the worlds worst legacy carrier.
How far can the trashing go before the reputation is irretrievable?

[rudderless1]

A few excerpts from Flugbegleiter links

And Sinegal says he's also built a loyal work force. In fact, Costco has the lowest employee turnover rate in retailing. Its turnover is five times lower than its chief rival, Wal-Mart. And Costco pays higher than average wages -- $17 an hour -- 40 percent more than Sam's Club, the warehouse chain owned by Wal-Mart. And it offers better-than-average benefits, including health care coverage to more than 90 percent of its work force.
Costco doesn't have a P.R. department and it doesn't spend a dime on advertising. There's a real business advantage to treating employees well, Sinegal said. "Imagine that you have 120,000 loyal ambassadors out there who are constantly saying good things about Costco. It has to be a significant advantage for you," he explained.


In an era when many CEOs are seen as greedy and sometimes corrupt, Sinegal is proving that good guys can finish first -- and without all the corporate frills. Sinegal even sends out his own faxes from his bare-bones office-without-walls at company headquarters near Seattle. But the most remarkable thing about Sinegal is his salary -- $350,000 a year, a fraction of the millions most large corporate CEOs make.


"I figured that if I was making something like 12 times more than the typical person working on the floor, that that was a fair salary," he said.
Sinegal is unfazed by his critics. "Wall Street is in the business of making money between now and next Tuesday," he said. "We're in the business of building an organization, an institution that we hope will be here 50 years from now. And paying good wages and keeping your people working with you is very good business."
:ok:

If I want a loyalty, I'll get a dog Geoff Dixon

Do you think QF has 38 000 ambassadors? :sad:

[neville_nobody]

Yep the Costco vs Walmart debate has been done on here before. Wall Street don't particularly like Costco saying that they are too generous to their staff.

This is the great divide. Costco looks after its employees who look after its customers. Qantas looks after it's shareholders. I guess which is the better approach is up for debate.

The thing to remember as a company is that when times get tough you may need to rely on the goodwill of the staff. This is something that Southwest and Costco have. People will go the extra mile for you. People in Southwest have even been known to come in on their days off or stay behind for free. I have the impression that this doesn't really exist in QF anymore.

[blueloo]

There are still some "lube'd" up snakes who will come in on their days off. There is still plenty of self-interest around, as opposed to goodwill.

[Dynasty Trash Hauler]

I kinda get what the anti QF bunch here are gettin at. The service onboard QF these days is pretty bad - good seats and IFE etc but its clear many C/C should be working someplace else cos all they do is piss off the customer. Thats not cool - they are the customer after all. Same with the thread here bragging about industrially inspired delays to QF services - its kinda crappin in your own nest. You cant brag about how its the staff that make QF a good airline when you are proud of the damage you are doing to the reliability of the service provided.

My 2 cents.

[argus.moon]

Where do you get your info?
The News media?
If you believe the media I have a bridge shaped like a coat hanger For Sale.

[cama7]

Hi
Heard a vicious rumour that Mr Dixon will soon be charged over the cargo price-fixing saga. Is this just one of the countless baseless rumours filtering out of Qantas offices, or is there some legitimacy to it?

[DEFCON4]

Why is it vicious?
Its Kharma.....I hope the rumour is fact.

[breakfastburrito]

Charged by who, Australian or US authorities?
Indeed, the Australian United Stated Extradition Treaty (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/comlaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrumentCompilation1.nsf/0/8D7B6F25E5B3BA37CA256F7100434502/$file/ExtradUSA.pdf) allows for him to be extradited:


ARTICLE II
(1) Persons shall be delivered up according to the provisions of this
Treaty for any of the following offences provided these offences are punishable
by the laws of both Contracting Parties by a term of imprisonment exceeding
one year or by death:
...
19. Fraud by an agent, bailee, banker, factor or trustee, by a director or
officer of a company or by a promoter of a company, whether existing
or not.
It would be interesting to see if this is just a nice rumor...

[Sunfish]

From Flug's link:

"Wall Street is in the business of making money between now and next Tuesday," he said. "We're in the business of building an organization, an institution that we hope will be here 50 years from now. And paying good wages and keeping your people working with you is very good business."

It was almost belted into me in my first job that the job of management is to maximise the long term value of the company.

Any idiot can maximise short term value by screwing over their staff and running down their assets (for example doing the minimum legal maintenance).

........Unfortunately it appears that that is exactly what QF's management appear to be doing - short term profits at the expense of long term value.

[rammel]

With Dixon and the board in JFK for the board meeting, wouldn't it be great if he got served a summons, or better yet led away in hand cuffs while he is there.

I find it hard that only one executive is guilty in all this. It went on for years and it seems only one person knew about it. Maybe Dixon just thought it was he outstanding management ability that had freight raking in the cash.

[jet.jackson]

Qantas have been looking to get into bed with someone for awhile.
With US Aviation Industry in crisis now would be a good time to commennce foreplay with someone like AA.
Qantas is in a great position to dictate favourable terms with any intercompany coitus.
If I know Dixon it would definitely a rear entry consummation.
Scrotum Face is definitely an "up the butt"kinda guy.
Just ask his last girlfriend.
The pregnancy was just a "slip up"..... metaphorically speaking

[blow.n.gasket]

God help Qantas pilots if that's the case !
Don't AA pilots have a scope clause?
Where would that leave Qantas pilots in a OneWorld Mega carrier?:confused:
PS JJ it couldn't have been up the Khyber, she got pregnant didn't she?

[Kiwiconehead]

Give the precarious situation of the US industry - would it be good corporate governance to leap in the sack with someone like AA?

[noip]

BnG

There is also the Qantas Sale Act ..... so I won't be jumping out any windows over talks of a merger with AA.

N

[jet.jackson]

The QAS was supposed to stop actions like the private equity buy out....it was circumvented.
These swine will/have found/find a way around it.
You can bet your left duster on it.
They are not up in NYC to visit Niagara Falls

[Sunfish]

I was always taught that QF modelled itself on United - that's where it got the bloated management structure from.

You can bet that it ain't SouthWest QF is talking to.

Any partner QF seeks will mirror the bloated management structure.

....Of course the real Aussie business model would see the place run out of a stack of converted containers in the back of the cheapest hangar available without a business suit in sight.....seen it done....for a while.

[porch monkey]

Wot? You mean like Tiger?:eek:

[The Professor]

“You would think a "Professor" would be a little more literate. Maybe that is not a prerequisite for a troll though.”

Yes, my fault. A rushed post without time for spell checking. I do apologize.

“A quick read of the Perfesers posts suggest he is strongly anti employee.”

No, not anti employee but very much pro business. You probably know the difference.

“Amusing to say the least having someone from the US commenting with such conviction on matters relating to airline customer service”

I am actually an Australian retired in Southern California and frequent QF Business Class customer, mostly trans pacific. I agree with the point you are alluding to, US majors are not the benchmark for customer service. But competitors such as EK, QF and CX do provide a good yardstick with which to measure QF service and sadly, it falls way short (but better than UA, hence my choice)

My point once again. The staff at QF, like the staff at many incumbent airlines, particularly those once fully State owned, have an entitlement mentality that should be relegated to the past. Your customers do not care how many Jetstar pilots steal your command upgrades. They do not care how much engineering is outsourced to more competitive contractors. They don't care that cabin crew are employed on different contracts or differing pay scales. But they do care when their flight to LHR is delayed by 24 hours as a result of the industrial games being played by QF staff.

Dixon is not the only one “trashing the Qantas brand”.

[Sunfish]

Gasket:

PS JJ it couldn't have been up the Khyber, she got pregnant didn't she?

Of course you can get pregnant from A*** sex, that's how lawyers are born.:ok:


If QF try a merger with a U.S. airline, don't support it. If it did happen, my belief is that the entire Australian management team will get eaten alive by American management in a very short time. Shortly after, not only will all the maintenance and overhaul go overseas, but the facilities will be torn down, rather than sold, to ensure that no competitor can rise from the ashes.

The only Australians working in QF then will be the cleaners.

It's what's called a "reverse takeover". Phillip Brothers (a very big American metals trading firm) made so much money in the early 80's that they bought a merchant bank (Salomon Brothers) with their petty cash. Within 18 months Salomons management was running Phillip Brothers.

[noip]

Proffessor,

Understand what you are saying, however your view is akin to shooting the messenger.

N

[blackguard]

This is exactly what happened when Qantas and TAA/Australian "merged"
Strong came in and relaced all Qantas management.
Dixon is a mate of Strong's...thats how he got this gig.
Dixon and his cronies have never had a skill set to run an international airline

[Sunfish]

Blackguard:

Dixon and his cronies have never had a skill set to run an international airline

My guess is that they are going to get skinned in New York, they take no prisoners over there.

Damage won't be apparent for some time though.

[B A Lert]

Dixon and his cronies have never had a skill set to run an international airline

Errrrrrrrr. Hasn't this been apparent from the first day they occupied QCA9? :E:E

[teresa green]

On the ABC lunch time news (this is what you do when you retire!) it was reported that the Aviation Industry in the US is in big trouble. (Most of it anyway) with ageing aircraft, high fuel prices, there is talk of stopping servicing to many destinations, and they expect a loss of thousands of jobs across the board. (well I guess that will fix the Pilot shortage). So why would QF want to get into bed with one of these carriers is any bodies guess, if it goes it will drag QF with it. Surely you would be trying to be nice to Emerites or Etidhad who appear to come with their own oilfields, and who are buying up A/C at a rate of knots. If I were Dixon I would bring his motley mob home from the US and head for the Far East.:ugh::ugh:

[cokecropduster]

Geoff Star (JQ) is now opening a base in PER! The really interesting thing is that the desirable language skill is Japanese! There goes Per-Nrt...

[mister hilter]

I am actually an Australian retired in Southern California and frequent QF Business Class customer, mostly trans pacific.

No **** Sherlock? QF don't do too many trans-Atlantic services these days.

[The Professor]

“Dixon and his cronies have never had a skill set to run an international airline”

“Errrrrrrrr. Hasn't this been apparent from the first day they occupied QCA9?”

Purchase of new aircraft. Opening of new routes. Consistently profitable and as previously stated, one of THE MOST PROFITABLE airlines in the world while Dixon was at the helm.
Popular? Probably not, but business is not about being nice to employees.

“No **** Sherlock? QF don't do too many trans-Atlantic services these days.”

Hitler, I guess I should have been more specific. What I should have said was “mostly trans pacific and occasionally domestic within Australia but rarely from Australia to Asia or beyond to Europe. Why travel to SIN when SQ provides far superior service.

But thanks for pointing out a misunderstanding so critical to the debate at hand. Bravo.

[argus.moon]

Dixon has been responsible for the creation of enormous executive wealth.
He has also been reponsible for the erosion of quality onboard service.
A failed private equity bid which would have netted him 560Million.
The oldest fleet in the world
A shrinking international network.
A reduction in the Qantas share of Australian international aviation traffic...down from 42% to 31% and falling.
A share price that is now $3.29
A destruction of shareholder value
An outstanding success....pfft!
I think Dixon is a double agent ...he secretly works for Sing Air
His mission is almost complete...Qantas is almost totally screwed.

[ron burgandy]

Professor,

You say "business is not about being nice to employees", yet you berate the staff at QF for not being nice to you.

I cannot understand why Dixon and supporters of his, like you, believe the best way to run a service based business is to create an entirely adversarial environment with the staff.

Whether you like it or not human nature is what it is, and if you provide no positive feedback, an atmosphere of intimidation and bullying, and constant negativity about your worth, then you are going to get the bare minimum in return. This is what is now becoming more prevelant at QF.

Personally, I'm amazed it took this long to gather some momentum. I think it's great that the engineers have finally taken Dixon's bullying ways on, and wish them all the best.

Prof, you would be wise to have a look at the Reason model of accident causation and apply it to QF. There are always latent reasons lying behind an outcome you can see. In this case bad attitude from the staff has been created by years of abuse from management, and simply blaming the staff is a shallow and simple outlook.

As far as being CEO of "the most profitable" airline. Have a look at another thread on here listing the waste of QF management. Don't forget that alot of their profitability after 2001 was just plain luck. The collapse of AN 3 days after sept 11 was a massive stroke of good fortune for Dixon. As a matter of fact, the only measure I can see that they deserve any credit for is a very good fuel hedging policy. But praising them for that is like praising me for putting the gear down before landing- that's what they're suppose to do!

[Datum]

Professor,

The majority of QF employees support the ALAEA and their strong action against QF management. Pilots, Engineers and Cabin crew have witnessed a noticeable degradation in many operational areas of the company since Dixon and his management team have occupied their positions.

Fantastic to see the engineers solidarity and espirit de corps.. :ok:

QF employees have had enough of the constant negativity, dishonesty and self-interest typical of Qantas's senior management..

Dixon's inability and lack of desire to negotiate with one of his key employee groups highlights his extremely poor management style. The CEO is paid an extraordinary amount of money to sort these type of issues. Presently, his ego driven tactics are costing the customers, the brand and the shareholders... Just about everyone - except Dixon!..The QF Board - by allowing him to act in this way are also being extremely irresponsible..

Employees are not terrorists - they are CRITICAL STAKEHOLDERS in the organisation!.. Management involves negotiation and possibly a little bit of GIVE and TAKE!..

The people holding the Qantas operation together right now are those at the coal face all over the world. Their professionalism and invaluable experience is the Qantas Brand - not Dixon and his mates.. It is the employees - the CRITICAL STAKEHOLDERS that finally deserve to be heard. As CEO it is Dixon's responsibility to sit down, LISTEN and NEGOTIATE...

[kotoyebe]

Datum:D:D:D

Well said, Mr Datum

[Tropicalchief]

The "brand" was dead with the take-over of Australian Airlines/TAA by Qantas and the fact that James Strong was CEO of Qantas at the time. The replacement of Qantas management by Australian Airlines management in crucial operational departments and the attitude of James Strong and his "management team" that the level of service provided by Australian Airlines/TAA in all classes on a SYD/MEL service was good enough for a SYD/LAX service was the beginning of the end.

It started with pasta, pizzas and pies in First Class and has ended with the sidewalk cafe cuisine, attitude and indifference of Geoff Dixon's approach to attracting passengers to Qantas.

The meals in economy class are inadequate and the service is not worth discussing because there is none and that is by management design.

It should be recognised that Dixon has been obsessed with the idea that passengers in all classes have been "over serviced" for too long and embarked on a crusade to eliminate the excesses. Too much space wasted in P/C, put the galley in the cabin, reduce the number of toilets in the E/Y cabin and put in more seats and reduce the pitch to 29cm. Not to mention the "battles" cabin crews have keeping J/C passengers out of the P/C loos' during peak periods.

Fuel crisis aside, it is my opinion that the powers that be are intent on destroying QF, not "growing" it. And for ther own benefit.

I would suggest that the time is ripe for all QF Employees to demonstrate for the removal of the entire Qantas board. That does not mean a general strike, it means that all employees not rostered to work on a day to be determined, gather to register their dissatisfaction with current management and its policies.

The share price dives, management bonuses increase.

Rant over.

[The Professor]

“The collapse of AN 3 days after sept 11 was a massive stroke of good fortune for Dixon.”

The collapse of Ansett was partially the result of some skillfull political manouvering by Dixon and his advisors. Luck played a part but Ansett fell victim to political circumstances that were thoroughly exploited by a cunning Qantas CEO.

“It should be recognised that Dixon has been obsessed with the idea that passengers in all classes have been "over serviced" for too long and embarked on a crusade to eliminate the excesses.”

Most old encumbent airlines have been forced to compromise service levels in an effort to compete in a changing market. Have you flown KLM recently. Even BA is forcing its in flight staff to do more with less and the results show. Companies like EK are staffed by compliant low salaried employees with none of the industrial impediments facing airlines such as QF. The market has an amazing ability to level the playing field over time. Western carriers must change in order to survive.

“A share price that is now $3.29”

All airline share prices are dropping. QF has taken less of a hit to its share price than most other global players.

“Their professionalism and invaluable experience is the Qantas Brand”

As apposed to the employees at other airlines. Exactly what “something special” is it that QF staff bring to the business that the staff at competitors cannot.

[blueloo]

Exactly what “something special” is it that QF staff bring to the business that the staff at competitors cannot.

Turning up to work, given the crap conditions they work under for a start.

[Sunfish]

Professor:

Exactly what “something special” is it that QF staff bring to the business that the staff at competitors cannot.

If you had flown QF Internationally before Strong/Dixon took over, you would have known the answer to that question.

Cabin crew engaged with their passengers in a way that those beautiful but essentially weak and compliant Asian girls could never do.

VB in my opinion has a better product now than Qantas.

[noip]

Professor,

It is apparent that you are aguing a point without the knowledge that exists within the pilot and engineer ranks. You are even in a different discussion.

The majority of the concerns here are to do with the systemic health of a great Aviation Icon. We are concerned that all is not well. We are worried that we can see the "man behind the curtain" as it were.

To take some of your points:

“Their professionalism and invaluable experience is the Qantas Brand”

As apposed to the employees at other airlines. Exactly what “something special” is it that QF staff bring to the business that the staff at competitors cannot.No-one is saying that QF people, and since this is pprune, particularly pilots and engineers are more professional than anyone else. This is not about "we are better than them".

Purchase of new aircraft.I could fill a book on this one. Summary - Domestic operations have been the focus - International has been the Cinderella. Waiting to see the Longhaul aircraft that have been purchased.

Opening of new routes.I'm sure there's been one - just can't think of it right now. I can think of all those that have been abandoned either because of wrong aircraft (wait - didn't you say we bought some new ones?) or because the domestic network was considered more important.

Consistently profitable and as previously stated, one of THE MOST PROFITABLE airlines in the world while Dixon was at the helm.Certainly, and I am concerned where those profits have come from and what it means to the long term health of the airline. It may be as you say, but I have the horrible feeling that we are seeing short term returns at the expense of long term viability ... I would love to be wrong here, but it scares me.

Popular? Probably not, but business is not about being nice to employees.
We aren't concerned with tough management - hey we work in a tough and unforgiving profession - HOWEVER - we want GOOD management and from what I've seen and learned, it appears we do not.

Time will tell ......

Rgds

N

[Keg]

When I checked out as an the 767 in '97 QF flew out of Australia to Tahiti, Taipei, KL, the occasional Ho Chi Minh and a bunch of different places in Japan. We also few did PNG, PER-BKK, SIN-HKG-BKK, Rome and Paris.

Compare that to now.....on ANY fleet. :rolleyes:

[stubby jumbo]

Great post..

Sums up my and many of my colleagues "thoughts" I work with.

This will be the beginning of the end of Dixon , Brown and his other stooges.

Sure, we're the most profitable airline ( blah blah blah)-BUT at what cost.....

"What you sow.......you shall reap !"

FOG

[The Professor]

737 New Generation
747-400ER
Airbus A330
Boeing 787 on order
Airbus A380 on order.

QF has grown significantly under Dixon and will continue to. Doesnt this significantly benefit the staff? Have pilots not seen upgrades as a result Keg?

[newsensation]

Qantas has shrunk under dixon, he created J* in his likeness....
The only thing to have grown is dixons opinion of himself!
(the use of the little d in his name was intention)

[max autobrakes]

When is the rest of Australia going to wake up to what DI http://www.symbols.com/pics/small/15/1501.gif (http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/15/151.html) ON is doing?:eek:

[AnQrKa]

Qantas has grown over 30% since dixon took over.

Very sad indeed.

[UP D Date]

Troll alert!!! with the collapse of AN it should have grown a lot more than that!!

TID Edit

[capt.cynical]

Bill Hayden's :ok: "Drovers Dog" could have done better than 30% :}

[hadagutfull]

My 5% worth....
Yes, the QF group has grown under Mr Dixon and co.
However QF itself has shrunk into a disorganized shadow of what it once was.
The root evil in all of this is the segmentation of the business units. In effect it has taken the pride and satisfaction as well as the sense of ownership out of its once loyal employees.
To think that one part of QF would have to fight another part of QF for the work, or QF business.
That creates empires within businesses that are destructive... ie engineering
Whilst I agree there are efficiencies to be made across the board, it should be done as one.
It now seems when the group profit is announced "We are grateful to all our employees for the hard work in achieving these results:" but in the 12 months to that " your business unit is a cost that must be reduced or outsourced and you should be grateful for a job"----- hypocritical!
As for the new a/c coming.. great!!! (B787), off to j* they go... then when they are tired and needing some money spent on them... give them to QF and the -900 newbies can go to J*.
Retire most of the B744's and have a handful 380's doing P and J class flights for the red tail:D
What will QF be internationally eventually... LHR. SIN. LAX. JFK. JNB???
What was it 5-10 years ago, LHR,CDG,FCO,FRA,BKK,SIN,LAX,JNB,NRT,KIX,MNL,HNL,YVR,PPT,DPS, CGK,..........THE LIST GOES ON !!
Dont forget the plans to create a new company to own the aircraft!!!
Will this phoenix rise from the ashes or will the ashes simply be swept away.....
Im done.
Cheers

[blackguard]

The boof heads who run Qantas have no idea whatsover on how to run an international operation.
They concentrate on the domestic operation because there is less vigorous competition and they have a reasonable idea of how to run it.
In the international operation they have purchased the wrong aircraft,cant manage yield and continually shrink the network.
The international operation of any airline requires skill, inovation and imagination.
Qantas management lacks all three.
Qantas is run for the benefit of senior management who plunder the coffers and create wealth for themselves through incentives and bonuses.
In effect the revenue base is being funnelled into management pockets.

[assasin8]

For those few 'experts' out there, waving the Dixon flag, please explain how, under his watch after the AN collapse, QF managed to lose so much of the extra customers handed to them on a silver platter?:cool:

[The Professor]

Qantas managed to grab the vast majority of domestic business travel after the collapse of Ansett. They were never going to capture as big a slice of low yield traffic and nor should they have tried. VB had been promised a helping hand from the Howard Government and was ready to swing into action to pick up the nickel and dime traffic left over.

QF has grown its international operation significantly in the past decade which has little to do with the AN collapse. AN International had very little international traffic.

QF has grown internationally during a period when many similar carriers have not. It has made significant profits when many similar carriers have not. And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.

Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.

[Teal]

From the 'Tips and Rumours' section of today's Crikey.com.au

Members of the most recent and present Qantas board are facing an interesting time. With the "holier than thou's" calling for Dick Pratt's head on a platter and resignation from all positions outside his company there might well be some other heads keeping well below the radar. Qantas has three major price fixing cartel cases running against it here, in Europe and in the US. Whilst Dickie's company managed only to offend little ol' Australia, the Qantas team has managed to bring down the wrath of the international heavyweights.

[denabol]

Prof,

You're full of it. Three of my extended family have links with the business. One is married to a travel agent who sell flights and cruises and stuff. One flies for Virgin Blue and one worked in Qantas cabins but has now escaped.

The Virgins got no help from Howard. Qantas didn't grab 90% of the market, it was put under seige by huge numbers of people who didn't have any alternative. I think the Virgins had 8 or 9 jets at that time. Qantas hasn't grown its share of international. It has bled customers to the superior services of Singapore, Cathay Pacific and Air NZ and scored big time losses to Emirates from braver souls than me.

I don't really like flying with Virgin but at a lower fare than Qantas for a reasonable seat it works fine for short trips. You can be pro union or anti union, I don't give a stuff one way or 'tother but I do know when a company is in deep **** with its customers and that is Qantas at this stage.

It needs new leadership.

[Big Unit]

And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.


I want some of what the professor is smoking.

[UPPERLOBE]

Professor,

As part of a long term madness Qantas for a minor plus on the groups balance sheet has striven to decimate it's engineering department.

Gone are the day's of 99% despatch reliability, aircraft that left main base for overseas flying or started their days domestic flying with "nil defects", so what! the risk managers might say, the what is now there for all to see, absolute chaos and will get worse not because of so called greedy engineers, you know the guy's who went three years without a pay rise (totalling 9%).

Lay the blame squarely where it belongs, that is at the feet of the management style which ignores the basics, refuses to listen as to why things were done the way they were and arrogantly insists that engineering needs a fiscal lobotomy and must be hived off.

[DEFCON4]

In the past five years alone has retrenched 1200 of its long haul flight atendants..
In the same period it has also reduced the ranks of lower order management by almost 1500.
When dixon talks of increasing employment he is referring to the Group not Qantas Mainline
Under Dixon's reign the network has shrunk significantly.
The age of its fleet has increased to the point where it is now the oldest in the region.
Outbound pax loads have increased due to the strenght of the $A.
Qantas share of inbound traffic has been reduced by 11%.
Capacity constraints world wide have also contributed to high seat factors.
None of this is down to dixon and his business skills...he has none.
The private equity buy out,late or cancelled departures and shoddy customer service have taken their toll on the brand.
Two years ago Qantas was ranked Number 1 as Australia's most authentic brand.
Thanks to dixon it is now ranked 14th.
Accusing aircraft engineers of the sabotage of aircraft,cancelling their shift and then docking their pay for not working their overtime is a reminder of the desperation of a company on the skids..note todays shareprice.
It has little to do with price of AV Gas but rather it is a sign of a company that has lost its management and market leadership qualities.
Both the Brand and the Company have been trashed by the total ineptitude and sense of entitlement of dixon and his band of incompetents.
Leigh Clifford.... Qantas is in need of immediate CPR (Company Performance Resuscitation) So for Christs sake pull your finger out and fix it before its too Farking late

[Konehead]

And its staff have reaped the rewards of continued employment and promotion.

Can anybody here present data to contradict this. Financial losses. Fleet reductions. Capacity contraction. Employee retrenchments. Anything.
How about a couple hundred from Sydney Heavy Maintenance? A decline in engineers during the same time as an increase in the fleet size. Makes sense. :rolleyes:
Not enough pushback drivers at various times of the day, causing delayed departures. Makes sense. :rolleyes:
A reduction in checkin staff during the same time that pax numbers are increasing. Makes sense. :rolleyes:
One less flight attendant on Dom B737 ops, and reductions in F/As in other fleets, at the same time you wheel out a labour intensive Neil Perry 1st & business class cabin product. Makes sense. :rolleyes:
The list goes on... in the name of increased bonuses - oops I mean profits.
There will come a time when this short term outlook will be seen to have killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

[freddyKrueger]

Qantas a loser in brand wars
Neil Shoebridge


Last years failed private equity bid and ongoing complaints about late flights and shoddy customers service have taken a toll on the Qantas brand.

Two years ago the marketing firm Principles and research company Synovate surveyed consumers to create a ranking of Australia's most authentic brands. Qantas topped the list, followed by Cadbury, Nokia and Bonds.

Principles and Synovate repeated the the research earlier this year, quizzing 4500 consumers (up from 2500 in 2006) about 104 brands (up from 70).

Qantas slumped to 14th place on the list of the most authentic brands. Microsoft and Google moved up the list from fifth and sixth respectively in the 2006 survey to first and second this year.

"The unsuccessful attempt to sell the airline to private equity firms and declining customer service standards have hurt the Qantas brand" Principles planning director Wayde Bull said.

"Qantas's standing as a heritage brand has declined because it does things that have raised doubts in consumers minds about its right to wrap itself in the Australian flag"

Qantas was not the only brand that scored lower on the Principles and Synovate authentic brand index, which is based on nine online surveys of consumers.

The surveys asked consumers about the 104 brands heritage, familiarity, personal utility, originality, momentum, sincerity and declared beliefs - that is, the philosophy behind the brands.

The seven area's were identified in the 2006 research as the key factors that shape a brand's authenticity.

ING direct posted the biggest decline on the index, sliding 9.7 point sot 20.3.

Synovate group managing director Dean Harris blamed the decline on ING's rivals copying its product and services in recent years.

"ING was seen as an innovator and pioneer in the financial services sector, but now a lot of other companies are offering similar products" he said.

"Its decline shows that challenger brands such as ING Direct need to keep challenging the market to stay ahead.
"They need to keep coming up with breakthrough innovations or consumers will quickly stop seeing them as challenger brands."

The average score across the brands Principle and Synovate covered was two points lower that the 2006 survey.

"Tougher economic conditions mean that people are tougher in their assessment of brands," Mr Bull said.

"People are also becoming more judgmental of brands and the extent to which they deliver on their word. We are all less accepting of marketing claims on face value.

"People have more access to critiques of brands, mainly via the internet, and companies have less control over the information being spread about their brands" he said.

Technology and communications brands were the star performers in this years survey, taking four spots in the list of the 10 most authentic brands.

"Brands such as Microsoft, Google and Sony have replaced food and beverage brands as the dominant fast-moving consumer brands" Mr Harris said.

"They touch peoples lives every day. They change all the time.

"They are focused on constant innovation."

Grocery wholesaler Metcash's retail brand IGA was the fastest rising brand on the Principles and Synovate index, jumping 14.5 points to a score of 34.5.

That put it in 29th place, just behind GlaxoSmithKline's Panadol and ahead of Kraft Food's Kraft.

"IGA's positioning as a community brand and an alternative to the big supermarket chains appeals to consumers," Mr Harris said.

"It is also a very simple positioning, one that is seen as sincere by many consumers."

The research also identified a large group of brands that Mr Bull described as "hollow icons", including David Jones, Myer, Telstra, Optus, Ford, John West, Sara Lee and the big four banks.

"These are brands that are familiar to most people but have no other level of engagement," he said.

"They're not seen as innovative or genuinely different of brands that add real value to peoples lives."

The study also also found a group of brands that Synovate and Principles called question marks.

There are brands that are relatively new and therefore unknown to many consumers, and brands that are losing their relevance.

The question marks category included AAPT, Rebel Sport, Virgin Mobile, Hyundai, Emirates, Skype and Jetstar.
Source: AFR (http://afr.com) Monday 23/06/2008 Page 50

[captainrats]

The money that should have been invested in product in both product and equipment has shown up on the positive side of the ledger.
Any twit can achieve that result.
Having a healthy balance sheet and a healthy business requires real business acumen.
The "lets bleed it before it dies"resolve of Qantas management is morally and ethically repugnant.

[UPPERLOBE]

Yes to Konehead, but that's only part of the story.

The deliberate disenfranchisement of staff will be the clincher.

They have reduced cabin crew numbers and now have full time FA's working with casual FA's employed by an employment agency, someone who has never lived in the real world thought that would work, "don't worry the plebs will never notice".

The engineering "management" has dropped customer contracts Australia wide as of today and will no doubt strip licenced engineers of the payments for holding licences for said customers as part of a ploy in dealing with the current industrial situation.

The cost cutting for a bigger bonus idea has been a plus for the sycophants, aye.

"You don't know what you got til it's gone"

[Sunfish]

They have reduced cabin crew numbers and now have full time FA's working with casual FA's employed by an employment agency, someone who has never lived in the real world thought that would work, "don't worry the plebs will never notice".

They do this to cause pain because they like to cause pain. In addition they think it will make the expensive CC resign.

Two companies in the USA, West Marine and Circuit City dliberately fired their most experienced sales and service staff and replaced them with cheaper, and far less expereinced people. Both are now only just staving off bankruptcy.

[Firecat]

Will dixon go to the grave before Qantas goes to the wall?

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-

"Two companies in the USA, West Marine and Circuit City dliberately fired their most experienced sales and service staff and replaced them with cheaper, and far less expereinced people. Both are now only just staving off bankruptcy."

_______________

Get this for brilliance!!

The A380, Qantas's brand new flagship carrier shortly due for launch is going to be crewed by the cheapest and most inexperienced F/As Qantas have.

A subsidiary company was set up for this aircraft type called Qantas Cabin Crew Australia.

F/As for this company receive substantially less pay [25%] and work substantially more hours per roster period [20%]

Qantas refused to have it's existing cabin crew operate this aircraft type as we were deemed to be too costly.

A proportion of positions [20%] were set aside for us but only on a temporary basis [2 years] the other 80% will be the new hires.

Existing Qantas crew who will make up the 20% will receive a top up payment so they won't suffer substantial financial loss but with only two or three destinations to fly to the rush to take up these positions hasn't been great:rolleyes:

The roll out of this aircraft from a service perspective is guaranteed to be a cluster f@#k of gigantic proportions due to the complexity of the service, the number of J/C passengers and the wifi devices crew will be using to place food and drink orders.

Conversations I've had with Singapore airlines F/As confirm that they don't get near their prestigious International flying until they gain experience flying regionally around Asia.

They [Singapore Airlines] are presently experiencing major problems running their 70 odd seat business class cabin due to a lack of galley space, poor equipment and sheer logistical challenges.

With a disturbing [for SQ] number of complaints being received from their high yield business class passengers

The irony being that you can bet your left testicle that SQ are NOT stupid enough to put brand new cut price 21 year old [life experience poor] F/As on their flag ship carrier.

The brilliance surrounding the upcoming Qantas train wreck is that it'll be all so public.:ok:

Qantas management. You are ASSCLOWNS

[TMAK]

Speedbirdhouse,

SQ in most cases put all their crew on all of the aircraft from the start, just usually not in F or J. Although J is done quite early on after a few flights down the back, but F is not until they are mature! (in fact have been promoted to Leading crew grade).

They also do long haul flights right from day 1, they dont just travel short regional flights as they are trained and rostered by a.c type and that would be impossible to roster.

With QF, could we honestly say that the QF Brand will be destroyed by new crew only operating the A380...lets be fair whilst no one likes to see conditions deteriorating...QF is hardly renowned for its inflight service. In fact its quite the opposite.

[Firecat]

The "Flying Circus" managed by the "Assclowns"
If it wasnt so sad it would be hilarious.
TMAK
Qantas was once known for its service and its engaging friendly staff
That is until Scrotum Face got his hands on it.
If you think the service is bad now wait until the A380 hits the skyways.
Any new aircraft type requires a number of experienced operators who have been given proper training and who are properly resourced.
With the A380 you will receive none of the above.
Give it about 18months before you even consider booking a ride on one.
Another cluster F@#k in the making.

[speedbirdhouse]

TMAK,

you think its bad now? [which it isn't]

The train wreck is only a few months away............

[stubby jumbo]

Writing this in the subject definitely attracts attention 'cause readers must think.......stubby is off his rocker.

Nah, I haven't turned ..............



Totally agree speedbird,

But WHY should this action surprise you????

These "chumps" that we've been lumped for the past 3 years have been an utter disgrace. I don't want to bore you all with the litany of management failures these polluka's have resided over-but needless to say that the Mod's would punt me for exposing this inaction ( again ! :hmm:)

Anyways, 'just heard our Head Of People :yuk: speak ( on ABC radio) re: the Engineers dispute. He referred to our esteemen colleagues ( E&M) as.....
"These people.........."

THESE PEOPLE

Let me tell you KB......these people are human beings who have contributed plenty to this airline............. not like you.:mad::mad::mad:

Get with the program buddy.

Get out of your fortress on QCA/9 and mingle with the troops and hear first hand the disdain people hold you in !!:ugh:

[argus.moon]

The damage done to the Qantas Brand and its reputation may be irreparable.
The service, the aging aircraft,the failed buyout,the delays,the cancellations,the management contempt for customers and zero morale amongst staff have destroyed any affection that Australians and international travellers once had for the flying Kangaroo.
I doubt that even the best advertising company in the world could resurrect the fortunes of this decaying airline

[cjam]

I don't think it's irreparable. A change of management and some investment back into the company and it's people would be such a breath of fresh air that morale (and therefore service/performance) would be boosted greatly.
If one good thing has come out of this whole debacle, it's the word Assclowns. Perfect.

[Sunfish]

Cjam, you had better hope that Dixon and Co. leave before the A380 arrives.

While I am an amateur regarding human resources, I expect that the A380 has enough people on board to generate a riot that the CC cannot control.

Think four football teams on end of season excursions and contract cabin crew who have no brand loyalty and know that any efforts they make to restore a harmonious situation will not be rewarded.


I am telling anyone I know not to fly QF. Management appear not to be concentrated on what matters to me.

[cjam]

Hey Sunfish...I don't know much about the A380 or how it's going to be crewed but I do find your 'four football teams' scenario a little bit fantastic . I hope I'm right for the sake of the travelling pax that aren't involved in ball sports. I just feel that Qantas isn't quite dead in the water yet. There are a heck of a lot of good people (the majority) who work for Qantas and they will still have their strong work ethic long after GD has retired to the beach and is wondering why nobody returns his phone calls. As long as the employees aren't in for another round of the same as far as management goes , then I think they will box their way out of it. If they do get more of the same then it will be a different story.
If a new boss stepped up and showed that the staff are a valued and important and vital part of the company it would be so refreshing and such a relief that morale and therefore customer service and OTP etc would improve out of sight. That is what I think. Really I just wanted to refute argus.moon's statement that the damage done is beyond repair.
Cheers.

[speedbirdhouse]

I think you are right cjam.

We'll survive providing we get real leadership after dickson finally slithers away.

[Bad Hat Harry]

Geoff Dixon has.....

[lowerlobe]

Originally posted by the Professor.....QF has grown its international operation significantly in the past decade which has little to do with the AN collapse.
Professor....Can you back up your statement and give us the new destinations that QF is flying to (in the last decade) that has lead to this growth that you mention?...

I seem to remember destinations that QF does not fly to anymore....in fact lot's of them.

Perhaps the growth you are talking about is a negative one.....

[busdriver007]

Lets see...QF did to fly to Vancouver, Toronto(albeit briefly), Paris, Belgrade, Rome, Athens, Manchester, Amsterdam,Nadi and I am sure their are more if we went back further. SQ has 52 destinations on the 777 alone. CX, Malaysian, Thai would have a swag more destinations than QF. The thought process is to run fuel hungry (maintenance hungry) tired 744s to LAX,LHR,FRA,JNB more often and forget the rest. If you have business in Rome the answer is QF to HKG then CX to Rome. God help the next CEO, the staff will again be called upon to rescue the airline.....

[hi-speed tape]

I firmly believe that the majority of folk at QF are the best money can buy ! and considering what FOG pays that is truely "Amazing" !!
Oust the current management and watch the "team" perform again.
There is no other company I want to work for, but unless this management go then I will.

[Dynasty Trash Hauler]

Busdriver,

Pleeeease dont compare what SQ and MH do with what you reckon Qannnass SHOULD do. Qannass is based in a tinpot country with a tiny population at the end of the line with no geographical significance at all. SQ and MH and EK etc have a much lower cost base thanks to cheap labor, they have been blessed with location providing them with tons of thru traffic, they are bordered by huge populations of emerging middle class travellers and mate they offer service that actually attracts pax.

Its wasted effort to ever think QF will be on the same footing as these carriers - why would a small country like oz be flying the flag carriers flag all around the world. QF will probably shrink back into the insignificant airline it should always have been without being propped up by the tax payer for most of its life.

Change is going to happen. Stop pretending flag carriers are the beginning and end of aviation. The future is asia or the middle east.

[Capt Kremin]

Geoff was interviewed today on 702 ABC and the line is the same. Management is totally responsible for the profitability of the airline... the employees count for nought; therefore employees are not entitled to anything but a fraction of the rises and bonuses that management receive.

Margaret Jackson was of the same opinion. The rot starts from the top.

[VR-HFX]

Starting to sound more and more like Robert Mugabe...with an on-time departure record and fleet to match.

[bulstrode]

Surely not everyone in management is blind to the damage being done to Qantas.
Borghetti is one of the few survivors of the TAA takeover.He has been here 30years.
There must be others who can see what is happening.
What about Leigh Clifford?
Is he so old and doddery that he is blind to the situation?
Somewhere in QCA a rebellion is brewing.Are they all so concerned with lining their pockets they just dont give a rats rissole anymore?
I live in hope.
Then again perhaps the questions I ask are rhetorical..the answers are obvious.
Hudson Fysh must be turning in his grave.
Someone shoot this Roo and put it out of its misery.

[Thylacine]

Ben Sandilands, Crikey, writes:

There is a lot more happening at (and to) Qantas than the industrial strife that has trashed its schedule over higher pay for maintenance engineers.

Rewind no further than the start of the year and Qantas was in significant trouble with its product -- but not yet its profitability -- well before the mechanics spat the dummy and the cost of fuel went sky high.

Flying with the carrier was already a grubby experience with unreliable and dirty aircraft. The bonus-driven cost-cutting culture was slashing deep into the heart of the legacies of excellence and respect for technical skills, hacking away at expenditure that could be deemed irrelevant to the next set of financial results.


The airline was dead lucky that an electrical failure to a 747 already close to Bangkok Airport happened where it did, in still air in broad daylight, and not over Antarctica, where it had been on New Year’s Eve, which would almost certainly have ended in tragedy.

It was dead lucky with incompetent flying standards that nearly exhausted the fuel on a Perth flight approaching Sydney. It had been lucky with inferior piloting on a Jetstar flight at Melbourne last July.

Even on home territory it was having maintenance screw-ups, such as nitrogen in oxygen tanks, and water from blocked drains getting into electrical systems.

There was a shortage of spare parts, great for lowering inventory costs, at key ‘outstations’ causing delays while the likes of replacement engines were ferried in, and its was starting to call the police to protect itself from aggrieved customers.

Like many other airlines, Qantas knows that in the medium term, new aircraft technology will mean that the work practices of today’s in-house maintenance units will inevitably go the way of the dinosaur.

The next generation of Airbuses and Boeings eliminates much of the old ways of servicing jets. There are very good reasons why any airline would contemplate outsourcing maintenance of the coming generation of passenger aircraft to centralised facilities. Engineers know that too. It is time for serious dialogues over how and where the skills of engineers will be required and deployed.

But unfortunately for Qantas, it isn’t time to be flying a large number of old jets with an astonishingly high tally of time-limited defects, overseen by less experienced (if not inexperienced) replacements for critically important maintenance staff who haven’t received a pay increase in a considerable time.

Where Qantas management wants to go is crystal clear. It wants a stripped-down set of core enterprises like fleet, airline operations and loyalty programs, all leveraging a brand that it might perhaps dimly comprehend is being diminished by the current situation. It wants to centralise the rewards and externalise the costs and risks.

Qantas management wants to be unencumbered by any labour that can be replaced by outside agreements. It wants to cut loose from legacy inefficiencies. But it seems to have lost sight of the need to carry the customers with it, using the jets it now has, in a clean, reliable and fully operational state.

[lowerlobe]

Hudson Fysh must be turning in his grave.
...He would be spinning at about 20,000 rpm watching all of this...:yuk:

[Animalclub]

The head honcho of American Airlines said way back in the 70's that the best airline is one that doesn't have any aircraft... in other words charter in. Is QANTAS on the way to proving it?

Those people who say QANTAS has expanded their routes must be counting all the code share flights.

My $0.02 worth.

[SOPS]

I am shocked, but I think Ben is making a lot of sense (at last:ok:)

[prunezeuss]

Stories and commentary in the media are beginning to recognize that there is more to this LAME dispute.
The shoddy leadership and lack of management skills are now being seen as the primary problem.
The emotional connection that Australians once had with Qantas is broken due to delays and concerns about aircraft safety.
Dixon suggests that 2% that the LAMES are asking for will affect the Qantas bottom line by $300million.
There are 1500 LAMES divide that into $300mil...this would mean an extra $200K per LAME per year.
C' Mon Dixon thats pure porkies...time for you to go old son...you've lost the plot.

[SIUYA]

prunezeuss...........

There are 1500 LAMES divide that into $300mil...this would mean an extra $20K per LAME per year.

Really? :ooh:

[Farman Biplane]

I trust that the QF pilots and cabin crew are dutifully entering defects it the aircraft log?

[rammel]

The wage bill will go up, but Dixon and co. keep saying that it is $300 million or so over the next 3 years. I think these figures are rubbery because there are some eba's that are not even 1/2 way through, and there are others still to be negotiated. Those that are 1/2 way through are not going to get an automatic payrise overnight just because the engineers might. They won't have a chance for 5% till their next eba.

[Teal]

Crikey.com.au reports that Qantas is drip-feeding details about changes to their frequent flyer program via an online survey. Some comments about the apparent reduction in value can be found at the following link:

Frequent Flyer Online Survey - The Australian Frequent Flyer Online Community (http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer-program/frequent-flyer-online-survey-13655.html?source=cmailer)

Here's one comment:
What rubbish - I would have thought they would have been the usual double points or something.
The Co Pay options look rather pathetic as well - I mean 128k + $2030 to fly in Y to London - I dont think so!
What loons are running this program..... so glad I can choose where to put my Amex points.... certainly wont be Qantas..and another..
What a rip off. On a 1-1 Credit card you have to spend Half a million dollars! For 1 seat. They are dreaming!

[Konehead]

The wage bill will go up, but Dixon and co. keep saying that it is $300 million or so over the next 3 years. I think these figures are rubbery because there are some eba's that are not even 1/2 way through, and there are others still to be negotiated. Those that are 1/2 way through are not going to get an automatic payrise overnight just because the engineers might. They won't have a chance for 5% till their next eba.

As I've said in other threads, there are very few unionised groups within QF that have the show-stopping leverage to negotiate higher rates. Sadly, the 5% if achieved by the LAMEs would not flow through to all 38,000 staff, no matter how deserving.

[Track Coastal]

$30M on a profit of $1B. 3% of profit to keep the engineers 'engaged'.
Qantas profit doubles on strong demand | smh.com.au (http://business.smh.com.au/qantas-profit-doubles-on-strong-demand-20080221-1til.html)

Dear oh dear.

He would be spinning at about 20,000 rpm watching all of this...:yuk:
Id say that and some.

If there is guilt or remorse, click on this link (it has a 'zoom' function - protecting some bandwidth on a slow pprune server):
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/04/08/business/pay.graphic.jpg

[prunezeuss]

A mistake.... a zero was inadvertently left off
The point is still relevant.
Let those who are without sin(mistake) cast the first stone.
I expect no stones to be cast.

[Green.Dog]

Dixon's own research tells him that the brand is holding up well and this is an indication that he and his team are doing a job.
Wonder if he owns the research company?

[lowerlobe]

The problem with research or polls is that if you pay enough and want it badly enough you will get whatever answer you are looking for.....or excuse/justification you need for your methods.

[dragon man]

Just talking to a parent from my daughters school. Next week they are booked on QF to Hkg they have been unable to purchase travel insurance because of the cancelations going on. Any one else heard anything similar?

[Nunc]

Farman Biplane, you assume correctly.

[Ultralights]

Sydney morning herald, today, nice story with lots of references to Pprune, and the instruction to blame all delays on engineering dispute... just how well will this be perceived in the media and general traveling public?

[Knurled Knob]

Has Qantas ceased trading and I missed it in Fridays Australian???
For the past 3 days I have been left on hold for in excess of 20 min on 5 seperate occasions while trying to book an international ticket on their 131313 number!
What a well run business!:}

[ron burgandy]

And you rang back 4 more times....................that's why they don't care

[crank1000]

I called Emirates yesterday about my flight to Birmingham and the phone was answered straight away. It took the girl a while to get an answer for my question but I think she was being trained.

Do Emirates have a call centre in Aus or does it go overseas? If the call was answered here which I think it was, then something has to give if Qantas think people will ring back four times and then be on hold.

I rang the Qantas 24 hour 13 whatever number at 4am once and got an automated message stating that due to high call volume at the moment I would have to wait on hold!

[speedbirdhouse]

It's not about the customer, it's about the shareholder :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[teresa green]

I hope Cosgrove gets a top guernsey in the next bunch of hopefuls to run the joint. At least the bloke is operational, was gutsy enough to get out with his troops when the sh$t was on, and very popular with his men. He is also known for his dislike of bean counters, especially Govt. ones. If he could run the Australian Armed Forces well, well he has to be considered for THE RAT. Imagine a bloke who actually used to speak to the troops. Who actually listened to what they had to say, (and this from a serving Army Officer). Right now he is biding his time, learning the ropes, and I bet he sits looking at these overblown, overfed, overpaid morons there now, and wonders how they ever get anything done. He understands Aircraft, and Crews, he understands the importance of good Engineering, and he understands good logistics, and as stated above he understands how to get the best out of people, The Rat could do a lot worse than a bloke like that.

[mmciau]

Yes, but would Cosgrove be 'loved and courted' by the 'Bridge Street Sydney" and 'Wall Street New York' money exchangers?

Afterall, if he ran the business with morals and ethics he wouldn't beholding to the 'money-is-the-root-of-all-evil shareholders'!

Mike McInerney

[blueloo]

I think if Cosgrove hasnt already fallen into the money trap, we may have seen some effort to improve the moral with the QANTAS troops. At this point in time I think its 30000 staff with rock bottom moral & ever declining engagement. The only shining light the staff have seen, is the engineers having a go at sticking up for themselves.

[ron burgandy]

And all it will take to get rid of Dixon is for the 30000 to do what the BA staff did. Stop work for a day and send the board a loud and clear message about the current management.
The 30000 supporting the engineers' cause from the sidelines will need to get involved sooner rather than later. Don't let this opportunity pass you by.

[teresa green]

I don't think Cosgrove is easily bought. I also think he is watching, waiting, and yes he has worked with shareholders before, The Australian Govt. and could you think of anything more demanding than trying to please a bunch of bureaucrats over a 20 yr period, and still come out of it with your brain intact and still respected by your troops. At least the bloke knows a APU from a camels a#se, and with a military background like that he must know how to brown nose to those he must, but at the same time keep the show on the road, and respect the people who are working for him. He is worth a try. other options? more beancounters.

[1me]

Teresa..Cosgrove? Interesting thought...

At least he understands the term: "Respect"

[Ngineer]

Qantas, Singapore deny merger speculation due to fuel prices | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23922761-643,00.html%3Ffrom%3Dpublic_rss)

[max autobrakes]

Ron,
If any other employees tried on what I think your suggesting without the sanctioning of Protected Industrial Action they and their Union could be sued for secondary boycott action couldn't they?
I've read on another forum that this maybe the reason behind management dragging their feet with the Qantas pilot's EBA, wouldn't want the only two licenced groups in the company withdrawing support now would you.:eek:

[Konehead]

"We have invested heavily in the product."
"Since 2003 through to next year we will be spending more than $2billion just on product -- that is lounges, interiors of our aircraft, and as you know we have one of the biggest aircraft orders out there.

Ummm... how about giving the cabin cleaners some new vacuum cleaners - the little handheld Dyson jobbies would be perfect. I am sick of brushing sh*t off the seats because the worn out old vacs the cleaners use wouldn't suck the skin off a custard. Frankly, it's embarrassing!
While we're at it, buy the deep cleaners portable electric air conditioners so we we dont have to run the aircraft packs and the APU for a minimum 4 hours to stop the poor dears from expiring from the summer heat buildup in the cabin. That's 400 litres of JET-A1 up in smoke = 2 barrels jet fuel = $340. Every aircraft, every month.

[DutchRoll]

Teresa Green,

I have a particular friend high up in the military. Very high up in the military, and with an impeccable reputation. He has met with Cosgrove in relatively recent times and specifically spoke to me because something Cosgrove said just didn't sound right based on my friend's associations with a lot of Qantas insiders.

Cosgrove, in my opinion, is an idiot of sorts (perhaps that's a bit harsh....but anyway). Cosgrove honestly believes that there is no morale problem within Qantas among its employees, and believes that it is only a few vocal rebels causing trouble, and that everyone and everything else is just hunky-dory.

In short, the evidence I have from highly trustworthy sources suggests strongly that Cosgrove believes whatever the boss feeds him.

If you want some more anecdotes, I actually live with someone who knows a fair bit about him and the way he works, from personal experience, from the Timor days before he became the darling of the public, politicians, and media. Very very interesting! I guess what I'm saying is that the public persona doesn't necessarily tell you everything.

[Keg]

ACM Houston on the other hand..... :ok:

[Konehead]

I've heard stories about Cosgrove. Autocratic - as you'd expect from a general. Rose a little too fast after becoming a media & Liberal poster boy due to East Timor. True?

[teresa green]

Dutchroll, could be a little truth in it, but I am basing it on a interesting discussion with the man himself, at a old boys Waverley College reunion, my old school. The bloke was somewhat bemused at the running of QF but openly declared himself a learner, but did mention morale, which he finds important in the sucessful running of any unit be it comercial or military, I would still give him a go. He did impress me, he is nobodys fool, but he likes people, and believes in getting the best out of them, and he was VERY interested in what I had to say. The bloke has no tickets on himself, and enjoys a beer and a laugh, he had a good record at the college, popular, and good at sport, a good allrounder, what you see is what you get. Its either him or another bean counter, which seem to do the rounds of every board room in the country, JC we could end up with Ziggy!

[argus.moon]

Whoever takes over will have small shoes to fill.
All Dixons replacement has to do is engage staff and provide them with sufficient resources to do their job well .
Equipment training manpower engagement.
Surely thats not asking too much.
Its going to take some clever marketing however to revive the brand.
Maybe Dixon is a triple agent working for himself,Sing Air and Kaos

[newsensation]

That is why he was talking into his shoe, would you believe.... can you talk on a shoe phone in an aircraft?:bored:

[blackguard]

A mate is in the Wine Business and spends a great deal of time flying back and forward to Europe.
He feels that FF is the correct name for the Qantas Scheme...
He is ........Frequently F*cked Over

[packrat]

Further evidence that the corporate vandals that manage Qantas have failed in their responsiblities is the survey published in Conde Nast.
Conde Nast is a hifghly regarded American Travel amagazine and has rated Qantas at 47.3 out of a possible 100.Sydney Airport fared little better.
On time departure,cuisine and IFE and technology issues all contributed to the dismal showing in the survey.
Sydney Airport would have to be the worst in S.E Asia.Looking at SIN ,BKK,PVG HKG and KUL airports Sydney is third rate if not third world.
Tourist numbers to Australia are declining.Is it any wonder with infrastructure the way it is.
Customs was also cited as a factor.
These people are definitely not employed for their people skills.
Welcome to Australia ...not!

[ZEEBEE]

Qantas is an easy target and I guess it's fashionable to rubbish an airline that's managed to stay operational while many others have gone down the gurgler.

It's very true that it isn't the airline it was twenty years ago, but then not many are. Times are a changing...Live with it.

I'd be interested to see what airlines get much more than 47%, and other than rich oil state owned airlines, how many will be around in a few years time.

Times are different and any airline that doesn't keep VERY tight controls on spending will simply evaporate and having flown with most, I can still say that Qantas is up there with the best of them.

Sydney airport is a different matter, but even there, it isn't as bad as many, Le Bourget, Charles De Gaulle, LHR, Frankfurt, Jakarta, Schipol to name a few.
The biggest problem in Sydney is the problem caused by a combination of the curfew, Customs and worst of all, AQUIS who are so undermanned it's not funny.

[Ka.Boom]

Are you nuts?
Frankfurt airport is an outstanding facility.Sydney is crap.
AQUIS and Customs are not undermanned.On most occassions there appears to be one customs officer for every three arriving passengers.
Australia is falling way behind the rest of the world in tourist infrastructure.
Thats why numbers are falling dramatically.
Australia :the Banana Republic...run by monkeys for thirty years

[Firecat]

Surely one of the questions on the Customs Employment Application form asks:
Are you from the shallow end of the gene pool?
If you answer "yes"you are employed immediately and promoted within a month.
Another question:If you shout at a foreigner in English will they understand you even if they don't speak English?
Answer:Of Course
Thousands of Japanese have been taught English in this manner while waiting in a customs line.
If there is a breeding ground for these customs employees it should be incinerated immediately.
Agree with previous posts.Qantas and Sydney airport are both rubbish

[TMAK]

Its all about cycles (not the ones you ride), Aust inbound tourism has suffered through a very strong dollar for the past year, the recent plunge will see that corrected. Its even back into the territory where predictions are the Japanese will return. So if the dollar stays stable now, lets see what happens over the next 6-12 months with inbound tourism.

I dont accept that people dont come here because of our national airline or CIQ...absolute rubbish...if that were the case no one would visit the USA....yet it is one of the biggest tourist destination on earth...

As for QF, I happen to think they are fairly good...and speaking of cycles...in say 2-5 year from now most QF pax will be riding on state of the art A380 and B787 aircraft, with a full fleet of 737NG making up the numbers with a few 744ER's & A330's...for now I will listen to what the big pax surveys say...(and they still have QF going ok)...and load factors speak for themselves.

[TWT]

I too have witnessed the charming Sydney immigration and customs people shouting at people for whom English is not their first language .Appalling.:ugh::ugh:

[Qantas 787]

About time YSSY got the rubbishing it deserves. And the $500 million dollar upgrade isn't going to fix any of the problems. The airport (sorry......Macquarie Money Making Machine) is an embarrassment on so many levels. I feel sorry for INTL visitors arriving.

- The endless money making from Macquarie. The car park rip off, the rip off through taxis and public transport and the fact you get charged for picking up passengers :rolleyes:
- The fact the airport is purely a shopping mall with a few aircraft gates.
- Quarantine and customs....enough said. The fact you fly to the US and there is one line for US citizens (which go through in 10 minutes) and everyone else you wait for an hour. You think they could do the same here and look after the Australian citizens? Of course not.
- INTL Baggage claim - at peak time, it is like herding cattle.

I have been in the terminal the last couple of months and the amount of stuff that is under construction......At least there is more check in desks that actual shops, which is an achievement.

On the upside, they are still an airport that is friendly to spotters.

[Pole Vaulter]

Arriving back in BNE after visiting various SE Asia countries makes me ashamed to call my self Australian. Singapore is so professional and courteous as is Hong Kong. On arriving home the lines were so long I could not believe and when I attemped to use my mobile phone to ring home I was shouted at by one of our goons in uniform and told I could not use a phone in the customs area. I politely asked why as there was no sign to the advise of that and was rudly told there is no sigh you are just expected to know that. Welcome to Australia. Why is it in this country we put a uniform on someone and immediately we must not smile, we must be rude and bombastic to everyone we encounter and just make a fool of yourself. No wonder OZ is not on the tourist route any more. Even the uniformed officers in Hawaii made a joke out of the fingerprinting and photo at customs and it all took a matter of seconds to be done. Wake up and treat people how you would like to be treated yourself. I guess that would be too much to ask our customs people in OZ

[moa999]

The $500m is all about increasing the shopping space thats it

nothing for customs and immigration, and the brown and decaying roof tiles et al. no money to be made there

[Firecat]

Japanese tourists staying away from Australia has nothing to do with the exchange rate.
They visit the US in droves and the exchange rate has been between 104 and 107 for years.
HNL has 5 jumbos a day arrive from Japan...full.
Australia has become passe and is generally seen as unfriendly..begining with the rednecks who masquerade as immigration officers.
US immigration has improved enormously.
Chinese mainland immigration has deteriorated...rude unhelpful and glum.
Gee...may be they were trained in Australia.
Sydney Airport...gateway to Australia? More like the gate on my Grandmothers house....archaic

[teresa green]

I have never had to much of a problem at Syd, Heathrow is a dogs breakfast, BNE is a shed, OOL is a disgrace, FCO, well, they are just nuts, (put up a gate sign, then change it without telling PAX) LAX is the largest unfenced lunatic asylum in the world, and so on, as for the Japanese they were so regulated and unable to spend other than on Japanese owned hotels and products, (up here on the Gold Coast it was a eye opener) they were never the golden goose anyway. The way things are heading we will be grateful for any tourists, at any airport, as long as they arrive HERE over the next few years, or you will really have something to gripe about.:uhoh:

[mrpaxing]

on US customs. they are right up there with aussie customs guys. have yet to meet a friendly effective US customs guy/gal:rolleyes:

[ZEEBEE]

Are you nuts?

More than likely. :) It helps.

Frankfurt airport is an outstanding facility.Sydney is crap.

Travelled through both extensively. Yatala Prison looks better than Frankfurt on the outside and probably easier to get around inside.

No airport except Singapore is anything to write home about, and yes that includes HKK and especially Beijing which is a disaster.


AQUIS and Customs are not undermanned. On most occassions there appears to be one customs officer for every three arriving passengers.

Wrong entirely. Allmost all of the bottlenecks in Sydney are caused by AQUIS understaffing. This is exsacerbated by the curfew dumping 10.4 million pax into the arrivals hall at 6-7Am each day.

If you REALLY want to see a dysfunctional airport, try Joburg anytime or Capetown at 7 in the morning. :yuk:
Nor have you lived til you've arrived at POM at rthe wrong time.

Australia is falling way behind the rest of the world in tourist infrastructure.
Thats why numbers are falling dramatically.
Australia :the Banana Republic...run by monkeys for thirty years

No, there are many other reasons, not the least is people from within knocking the system instead of working to improve it. :ugh:

[Wiley]

My personal (un)favourite aspect of Macquarie Bank's Sydney money maker ... (sorry) Airport are the uniformed Nazis who patrol the departures level ***ing BOOKING people who have the temerity to walk up to that level to be picked up by relatives who wish to avoid the usurious parking fees that you have to pay to pick someone up on the arrivals level, (because, for obvious reasons - $$$ca'ching!!$$$ - there's no pick up area provided apart from the *paylots* car park).

Car stops, passenger throws bag into boot, climbs in... said car occuppies kerbside for all of fifteen seconds - a considerably shorter time than most people take to (so far, without a charge) unload their bags... and the Nazi is there with his or her pad booking you for "illegally" parking, or more accurately, avoiding paying Macquarie Bank yet another large fee.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

What's all this got to do with the thread title: "Qantas: The Trashing Of A Brand" ?

[Capt Wally]

'R&E J' I guess one can only say such a thing about QF once, once said we can expand on that subject heading & go much deeper by saying that Aus is now a stand alone country when it comes to visitors, we now don't follow in anyones footsteps good or bad we can show appauling welcome signs by way of lousy handing at the entry points here in Oz on our own:sad:

Bring back 'Hogs' (Paul Hogan) he'll get us back on the friendly map by way of throwing another shrimp on the barbie & if all else fails he can throw a few customs & other nazi reps on the barbie !:ugh:
Stepping from a cab the other day at ML (to go interstate pax wise) I watched/heard one of the 'traffic goons' show us that here in OZ you don't need to go to a communist country & get made to feel like you don't belong here & yr not welcome just step onto the curb at any Ausie main airport!


CW

[hadagutfull]

Had a run in with the parking Nazis at the Syd dom terminal recently... told him he was a complete and utter Fu@% Wit... then he wrote me a ticket...
So its not just the visitors who get treated like cattle in this country...


And I wont even start on the SNP security at the terminals.... Had to check my boarding pass to see if I was leaving SYD or Beirut.... no offense to my Lebanese friends... just seems to be a selective hiring policy and there could be a little more people skills training invested in there.

[twiggs]

Try entering any terminal without getting a lungful of cigarette smoke.

[Kangaroo Court]

Fair bloody go!!

I just flew on QF to Australia out of LAX as pax and it was great!! The plane was clean, the entertainment was excellent, the staff friendly and we were on time. Bags were not damaged or lost either.

I was equally as pleased with the Customs bloke in Sydney who said, "Welcome home Mate!".

Eastern was great both ways up and down the coast too and the young flight attendants were very professional and spoke beautifully. The flights ran on-time too!

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Further evidence that the corporate vandals that manage Qantas have failed in their responsiblities is the survey published in Conde Nast.
Conde Nast is a hifghly regarded American Travel amagazinehmmmm already......

On time departureYou mean Chuck can read a clock.??? (If they have trouble with geography...... (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=A8SuCBHqXtQ&feature=related))

cuisineUm, Oh dear. Hank was disappointed that he couldn't get a deep fried breakfast burrito with a serve of ice cream? I don't think deep fryers would be too safe on board. Besides, you can only fit so much food into one galley. (Lemme see... now if the French complained about our cuisine? The Japanese? Italians? Belgians even? Then I'd not be laughing so much! Them old yanky culinary connoisseurs are a picky bunch!)

and IFE and technology issuesPoor old Randy Junior, I do believe Rockwell Collins is an American Company? Not to worry, we are rectifying the situation with some nice reliable Japanese Panasonic IFE! Then all you will have to worry about is trying to understand Aussie comedy!

(PS. Sydney airport rocks compared to Brissy. Qantas could also be as good as Singapore Airlines and Emirates.... if only it had huge financial backing from Government!:rolleyes:)

[obira]

Packrat,

I have just been to Conde Nast Traveller Magazine's website and looked at the survey results. The highest scoring airline was SQ with 87.99/100, Qantas was 7th with 81.88. This is nothing like the figure of 47.3 you quote.

There are many Australian newspapers, not many publishers though, and surprise, surprise they all come up with a headline saying 'Qantas panned.' Look at the body of these articles and there is nothing to support the headline.

The media in this country are a disgrace. They continually use sensational headlines to create a perception which is not borne out by the facts. Another illustration is on-time performance. I have just had a look at airline on-time performance figures at the DOTARS website. The latest data published is from Jul07 to Jul08. Comparing the results for DJ and QF by looking at the graph for on-time arrivals, Qantas's on-time performance was better than Virgin Blue's in 9 of the 13 months. Virgin Blue managed to better QF in Jul07, May08, Jun08, Jul08 only. Is this what the Australian media tell you?

obira

[teresa green]

The parking nazis at OOL are straight out of Boggo Rd, saw one shouting at some poor woman trying to get a toddler and stroller out of her car, with a newborn under her arm, and this arse%ole is telling her to move on. A couple of us went to help her, with the same result. Turns out some sheik and his 24 missu'ss was about to arrive, on hearing that we slowed the whole operation down, I drove off happy.

[b737800capt06]

Then you will discover ordinary 'taxi in the sky' operation.

Firstly QANTAS is a full service airline, not some 'pay extra $5 to take a piss' airline :}

Pay some money you bunch wingers and fly Business Class and enjoy the good life - stop winging that for your $69 to fly at FL35 at .80 mach with food, drink, someone to serve you and one of the safest airline in the world to fly from bogan capital of the world Brisbane to infest other states.

Wingers who complain - "I do not get 5 star service for the $69 airfare to/from Brisbane" ... piss off :mad:

Lets see, you get an airline with a long and proud history, outstanding safety record, great staff, some of the words best ATPL trained pilots.

But no, the great unwashed want Bollinger with Beluga Caviar and one to one personal service, piss off back to your one bed room flat in the ass end of the world.

it is the same people who stay in the cheapest room at a hotel and then wonder why they got no view, a room the size of cupboard. THINK you paid $69 you tight fisted &^%

So all those who for years screamed "we want cheap fares" now scream we want business/first class treatment for our $69, get real.

Yeah and lets pay flight and cabin crew $10 an hours so the great unwashed can complain some more about having to pay anything at all!

My thanks to all those who pay full fair and those who fly business class - they pay their way in life. :D

Eat It :mad:

[Wiley]

...some of the words (sic) best ATPL trained pilots.Ahh, another successful applicant who made it to Day One of the QF pilots' induction course and believed the "you are the best" spiel.

Pity they didn't teach you to spell, capt06, along with a bit of proof reading and grammar.

[ULH Extreme]

Hey Wiley, Capt06 sounds like a whingeing Pom to me.:rolleyes:

[passy777]

"Go Fly A Domestic U.S or U.K Airline"
"Then you will discover ordinary 'taxi in the sky' operation".

Be interesting to know what "Domestic" UK airline(s) is being referred to. Assuming the 'taxi in the sky's' are reference to Easyjet or Ryanair, they are not technically domestic as they undertake pan european operations and Ryanair's home base of Ireland is not a UK location.
As the quote seemed ambiguous, was it referring to Domestic US airlines and UK airlines in general??
Incidently, I have no issues with QF, the airports or OZ, it's just a pity that clowns who cannot express themselves without the use of 'industrial language' cannot vent their spleen on a more appropriate forum.
Australians are unfortunately stereotyped by some as being foul mouthed and not too bright, well no comments there then- but at least you fly in business class so thats all right!

What I do agree with is that Qantas is a top notch airline.

[max autobrakes]

Passy wrote: "Qantas is a top notch airline"
Despite management that is stereotyped by some as being foul mouthed and not too bright, !:ok:

[crank1000]

Having spent a couple of years around Europe/North America recently, I would have to say that the belief Aussie's have of being "loved everywhere" is misplaced. I stayed in more modest accomodation most of the time and ran into alot of Aussie's acting in a disgraceful manner. On questioning these people I simply got a "its ok, they love us here". Well actually they don't. The behaviour of these types has alienated alot of foreigners into avoiding us completely. The Brits call us Jafa's. This means "just another ####ing Aussie". Is that the way we want to be viewed? In the US we are almost hated for the fact that we are the "the tightest people ever and the worst tippers alive" according to the hospitality staff I spoke to from 3 West coast states. Most Europeans commented that they would love to visit but the Australians they had met already had put them off.

Want to know why our passengers numbers are down? Thats it right there. We have gone from being viewed as fun loving outdoor types to drunk and abusive lunatics.

The topic of this thread is the qantas brand so I will get to my point. With all this working against us, we have to have a top notch National Carrier to make up for a bit of a tarnished image/economic slowdown. Kangaroo Court mentioned he had a good flight recently. Thats one person. You cant just have a good flight once in a while. It has to be top notch ALL THE TIME!

I know that it's not just Qantas that have to lift the standard but remember, if the flight was good then people dont mind so much if the customs line is long. If the flight was crap then the customs hold up will almost break your patience. You cant keep on saying that were not going to improve unless they do.

I have flown on many airlines the world over. Budget and full service,govt and private owned. As I have said in similar threads, the standard at Qantas is not very good compared with the flag carriers from some other countries. BA which is a non govt flag carrier, didn't have a good rep 10 years ago. They made the changes, got it together and now are back up to a great standard "doing well against Thai, Emirates etc". So the people who say Qantas cant compete with govt backed flag carriers are talking c#ap!

My two cents worth

[mrpaxing]

QF made it in the skytrax,s top list 4 out of 5 times in the last years. where is BA?:=

[ampan]

Aren't we talking about two different issues, namely, safety and service?

Safety has nothing to do with service, and vice versa.

A miserable trip is better than a sudden death.

QF probably has the best safety record of any long-established airline. If that record is being called into question, then the Federal Government should initiate an inquiry.

I was appalled when AirNZ decided to "contract out" its engineering services. If that sort of thing has been going on at QF, it should be stamped out.

[ditzyboy]

Spirits are no longer available for purchase(!) in Economy on domestic flights - with the exception of PER-KGI, PER-KTA and BNE-ISA.

It is such a shame that Qantas arbitrarily removes such options without consideration for the customer.

Inflight magazine, anyone? I have operated two flights in the last ten where more than 25% of seats actually had an inflight magazine.

The domestic product and domestic customer, for that matter, are an afterthought. It is getting embarrassing.

[ditzyboy]

uniformed Nazis who patrol the departures level ***ing BOOKING people who have the temerity to walk up to that level to be picked up by relatives who wish to avoid the usurious parking fees that you have to pay

I arrived from HKG one evening at 10.45pm, Tuesday night. There was no one around. Just me waiting for my partner to pick me up. An extremely large pig of a lady waddles up to me and says that pick up on Departures is not allowed. I told her I was getting fresh air. She waddles off... My partner pulls up and I am loading my luggage into the boot. This 'woman' waddles as quick as she can (and looks as if she is about to pass over from the exertion!) and says, between gasps for air, "this is for departures." I said "I am departing..." :rolleyes:

She wrote down the number plate but when never heard a thing.

The parking situation is ludicrous.

[mrpaxing]

it,s not getting, IT IS embarrassing and has been for a while.:*

[Wod]

Last two posts are interesting.

This thread is ostensibly about opinions on QF Brand.

That brand extends to the whole travel experience for some people, so terminals, parking, airport pick up arrangements, and indeed the weather, being part of that experience, become part of the airline's area of responsibility.

Perhaps BARA in Australia should refuse to use SYD for a week or two:E

I jest. I think:hmm:

[Orangputi]

Mate have flown Business class a few times in the last couple of years with QF and it is crap. The service is crap, the entertainment sys is non existant. I would say that SQ economy far exceeds QF business.

Just complete overpriced crap that only a monopoly like QF can serve up!

Time to wake up to the facts!

[smartalec888]

Domestic Business on Q is fine, especially if its a short flight. Some people seem to have unrealistic expectations for such little crew numbers on such a short flight.

[argusmoon]

Ten years ago when Dixon began his tenure Qantas had very few if any E and M issues.Today its a mess.The heavy facility in Sydney has been closed and aircraft are serviced overseas.Before Dixon the service was good if a little conservative.There were enough staff at airports,call centres and onboard.
Perth is a mess.
Brisbane was a mess until someone had the temerity to almost die while waiting to check in.Sir John of Borghetti saddled up and rode into the North.
The service onboard these days is delivered by less crew who are inturn managed by fear and intimidation.Dixon decided that a workforce kept under pressure was more efficient and productive.He was right..in the short term.
In the longer term staff become disengaged and feel undervalued.
There has been a decline in safety,a decline in service and a decline in the numbers of frontline staff.
Qantas has the oldest fleet in S.E Asia and the worst IFE in the world.
Borghetti ventured that is was a stuff up
A once great and proud airline has just about been brought to its knees by an egomaniac who has been allowed to run amok by an insipid board.
Should the shareholders rejoice?No!!
Dixon has also managed to destroy shareholder value
But wait! There are winners.
Executive wealth has ballooned.
Dixon is now the second highest paid airline CEO in the world.
The wrong aircraft and way too many have been ordered for the future.
There is now an enormous economic downturn and forward bookings are soft to say the least.
So Dixon has achieved what?
He has made himself and his ass kissing cronies rich and trashed the Qantas Brand.
Dixon rewarded himself with $12 million bucks for this obscene incompetence.
Scrotum face has little education and a relationship with James Strong that landed him a plum job that he milked for all its worth.
Lets not forget the buyout.
Talk about a grand sense of entitlement.Dixon stood to earn $60mill for selling the airline out.
But hey the demise of Qantas is all the unions fault.
They tightened their belts and took a wage freeze during 911 and SARS.
Dixon didnt even acknowledge their contribution.
Qantas was once a leader...now its a pathetic follower

[Jed Clampett]

Hey guys and gals I work for QF and am entitled to a fairly reasonable staff upgrade. My missus goes to LHR on a regular basis and flies full fair Singapore Airlines Economy class everytime. She loves it! Guaranteed up and back, on schedule, meal choice provided, IFE works, nice clean new aircraft and no hassles. At the present time QF is crap!

[PPRuNeUser0212]

recently traveled on a QF domestic flight, Dwn - Syd, asked the pleasant cabin crew for a nice little vodka after the meal. Sorry Sir we don't serve spirits anymore????? Apparently not enough demand, more likely another cost cutting exercise, although at $6 a pop, can't see it. Makes the 4 hours in the cram packed aluminum coffin hard to take.
Just another cut in the service, it will be like Bogan Airlines (Jet *) soon.
And yes I would have flown business class had it not been an employer booked flight and a 737, could have use points.

[Captain Dart]

b737800capt06, on the assumption that you are not a wind-up merchant, it was one of the 'world's best ATPL trained pilots' that played through to the golf course at the end of 21L at BKK some years ago.

QF also inherited pilots of questionable morality from Australian Airlines after 'that year'.

There are highly competent pilots, including many Australian ATPL holders, flying for airlines other than QANTAS, especially in Asia.

Your post reeks of the 'QF lobotomy' that is folklore in the industry.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

argusmoon, I couldn't agree more! :D

[Firecat]

Qantas managemnt never learn from their previous mistakes.
The IFE currently forced on the weary public is appalling.
The geniuses are now fooling around with the Panasonic package.
Surprise,Surprise they are having some difficulties(read problems)
Theses people seem to think that they are audio visual experts.
Someone tell them please.....they couldnt organise a ****e fight in a sewage farm.
Then again...perhaps that is their forte...throwing ****e.

[teresa green]

Captain Dart, as a check and training Capt from TAA aka Australian Airlines, I have to say 99% percent of our blokes were top quality, if you are refering to their low morality re their bedroom habits you are probably right, but as pilots they were as good as you can get. (there was one bast$rd I would not feed and for you older blokes you will guess who it is) but there were no "skygods" just good line blokes.

[Captain Dart]

Teresa, I was not referring to 'bedroom habits' when I used the word 'morality'; it was in regard to those from Australia and overseas who did the wrong thing industrially during the 'year that dare's not mention its name'.

However, the ex-TAA pilots who did the right thing during 'that year' and subsequently joined my Asian airline (many of whom are now simulator instructors) along with the rest of us 'refugees' are thorough gentlemen and are outstanding to 'sim' with and drink with.

Larry Dart.

[teresa green]

Point taken mate. I am just a little sensitive to any complaints about a fine bunch of blokes whom I was privileged to fly with, especially around that time. Many are close mates still.

[Ka.Boom]

Now that you two have kissed and made up can we get back to the topic?

[woftam]

Back to "The trashing of a brand", I overheard a couple of guys in a bar today "joking" how their mate needed a drink to calm his nerves as he was about to fly out on Qantas.
Well done Geoff & Co !!! (As well as the abysmal bloody media in this country who even stooped to reporting half hour delays like it was "breaking news") :yuk:

[desmotronic]

Hughesey on Nova the other day discussing the latest incident: "Qantas used to be the safest in the world. What are you doing Qantas? You are FREAKING US OUT!"

[Capt Wally]

I'll just slip this in here seeing as we are trashing/bashing a 'brand' that needs no introduction to being of very poor quality service these days. QF!
My partner had the displeasure of flying with QF back from Asia within the last few days with her son & his G/F. In a nut shell 'cause there ain't enough ink in my keybaord here to tell all they where totally PI&&ED off with QF. They where dicked around from pillar to post. My partner has flown with QF over many years & now says that the airline is 3rd rate at best. Late dep, lost luggage, appauling cabin service. Told they where moved to another flight when they missed their connecting flight then told no you couldn't have been told that you are incorrect it's going to be the next flight after that one you think you where told, (liars they where all but told). The list goes on & on.
I happend to fly VB today just between two states, simple no frills & I got what I paid for with a free continious smile from all staff:)
I think it would be accurate to say that QF was once a great airline respected the world over, not these days. I wonder if we could sell it & cut our losses? But who would buy a lemon!:sad:
'Darth' has got his name in the annuls of history as being the one that killed a great icon. Nothing much to be proud of that's for sure!


CW



CW

[stubby jumbo]

......a good post Wally.

It hurts me to say that I agree with most of what you wrote.....even though it has referred to us as crew( appalling cabin service).

Generally speaking whereever you go at QF-checkin, airports, cabin crew, techies, res,freight, QFCL...................everyone and I mean EVERYONE is totally jacked off with the joint.

We are the laughing stock from the travelling punters perspective-delays, breakdown, "performance issues"( aka QF30/72).
Where are we going?
When is it going to end?

I for one have had a gutful. I just come to work, do the best I can with what I've got, treat the punters with respect-apologise incessantly and get off.

As far as the "Management Team" (sic)-they are an absolute joke. What sickens me is reading the bonuses that they gave themselves in 2007/2008. They have no idea how to manage people....... its all "Management by Fear".

One of my favourite sayings is:
What you shall sow.....you shall reap !"
Well by Christ this is "reap time". After 10-12 years of total neglect and running the business down to the bare carcass that it is now-we have the result!FOG......................good riddance turkey

:{

[Ngineer]

Good post Wally,

A mate of mine who flew Jet* starclass recently was rudely told by a QF gentleman at the door to "get out" when he tried to enter the Sydney business class lounge, although he was told by check-in he was welcome there.

All I could do was apologise...

[teresa green]

I must have been lucky, I have just had four good flights with them (longhaul). But seriously this is really distressing for anybody who works for the company, and to see what has happened under Dixon's watch is appalling. The only thing going for it now is the staff. Despite being treated like S$it, they still keep going, as dedicated as ever, as loyal as ever. I have worked for them, I have three kids working for them, two up the sharp end, one on the hanger floor, One in JQ, and so I get to listen to what they have to say very often, and it is pretty much what is said on this forum. So where to from here? Can Joyce turn it around? He is aware of the situation, as is the board, it won't take much, all he has to do is starting talking to his staff, and he has be known to talk to JQ staff, just a visit to the hangers, into the crew rooms, it won't take long for the word to spread, and optimism to start growing, in my time the bosses like Menidue, and Yates were highly popular, because they did visit the hangers, the crew rooms, the canteens, in fact Yates turned up to one of the hangers at 0200, to the amazement of the LAMES who were doing a wheels up at the time, (they reckoned they neally dropped her)! (my brother was one of them) but he just said he was working late, and thought he would take a stroll before going home, just asked them how things were, told them they were appreciated, and off he went. Needless to say they thought he was a good bloke. Didn't take much did it? The rest will follow if you get the staff on side. Here's hoping.

[topend3]

i'm sure it's been noted before the senior management at Air NZ have taken a big leap in staff relations. Apparently they take turns each month at spending a day in a different department...even doing a sector and pushing the carts down the aisle. There's a lot to be said for getting out there amongst the staff.

[TIMMEEEE]

Absolutely - Ralph Norris did an outstanding job by insisting that all senior management work in the trenches so to speak.

Yeah - Qantas has been let down severly by the likes of Geoff Dixon and his yes-men followers.

Staff overworked, undermanned, treated with indifference (not to mention the passengers) etc etc.
They flog around older aircraft on some international routes with sub-standard/non-existant entertainment systems and expect the customer to just take it!

The B747-300 has been a treat on the Perth flights in the last year.
Perth ops even had to call security when 2 old B747's were broken down at the same time!
Passenger rage was rife that day!
Great machines but they need extra TLC and maintenance at their age - something Qantas does not want to provide.

Well Geoff, before you leave Qantas just remember that you have top-notch staff who have been treated appallingly, have been disengaged (not to mention treated with disdain).

Your "Yes-men" in accounting have decided on a policy of sending aircraft heavy maintenance offshore with little regard to the ramifications and all the bad publicity that has been heaped upon the airline.

Retrenching heavy maintenance engineers and staff from Sydney has bitten you guys on the backside and caused numerous problems, the least of which was that Boeing Airworthiness Directive for the B744's.
How many weeks is each aircraft going to be out of service for?
The general public has seen the shoddy work done offshore on national television and caused the board to create a "media crisis management team" that handles the almost daily litany of mechanical problems reported to the public.

Overbookings, undercatering, substituted services, delays due to understaffing, flights cancelled due lack of staff, maintenance issues too numerous to report etc etc etc etc.

Sure Geoff, the airline did make a record profit last year but how about looking to the passengers you have pissed of and lost due to your arrogance?
Was it worth it?

[Capt Wally]

Guys & Gals of QF I feel sorry for those that try, try to do the best under a very poorly run management who appear to act like criminals in their own right. Am sure there are numerous QF employees that are top people but even with the best intentions given poor standards to follow, lousy upper end management who feel nothing for the real workers they are left holding the 'baby' when the sh*t hits the fan which it does these days by the sounds of things all too often.

What do the workers of QF have left of QF these days? Memories, memories that where once proud to behold from the head honcho right down to the guy on the shop floor. Now? Well the management side of things an end result as others have said, Greed.:sad:



CW

[firepussy]

Qantas and Australians have been having a love affair for over eighty years.
Now Australians have found out that Dixon has been doing naughty(Greek) things to Qantas for ten years.
It has been corporate rape
Australians rightly feel betrayed,hurt and dismayed.
The love affair is over and Dixon has dropped Qantas like a hot scone and absconded with millions
Qantas is now alone and heart broken.Its not her fault
Who wants to have a relationship with an old woman caught with her pants down?
Can someone provide some cosmetic surgery to the old girl and defend her against the wrondoings of the cad ,Dixon.
In short can the love affair be rekindled and will the travelling Australians forgive Qantas for Dixon's sins?

[Clipped]

'Darth' has got his name in the annuls of history as being the one that killed a great icon.

With that final $11.93 million in his grubby little hands ... "who cares what you or anyone else thinks".

[Reeltime]

Staff morale at rock bottom.

Service standards cut to the bone.

Product no longer competitive.

Mixed fleet including many old aircraft.

Operational and safety record in tatters.

Divided brand/workforce.

Huge executive bonuses.

Short term profitability.


Introducing the Dixon Legacy.

[indamiddle]

hi clipped... the final $11.93m in his hands?
dicko is staying on as a 'consultant' till march.
will keep his hands in qf's pants till then helping out mini-me

[blow.n.gasket]

I hope the general public don't "love" our departing boss as much as the Qantas staff do.
Poor chap, just imagine ,Geoff sitting there in some posh restaurant, minding his own business just trying to decide upon whether to order the Dom. Romane Conti or the Petrus Pomerol and KAPOW, king hit by some disgruntled Qantas passenger who recognises him.:}

"The king is dead long live the Queen"

[labia vortex]

George Clooney would do to me what Dixon has done to Qantas....sigh

[AlanShore]

George Clooney is too busy tring to screw with the US economy, but I believe Robert Downey Jnr is available.

[ditzyboy]

"The king is dead long live the Queen"

If you believe rumour, there may be something in that.

[Capt Wally]

I've asked a few people in recent times whether they knew who was at the helm of QF (current) & do they consider QF still to be safe. Now I was careful to ask those that had little if anything to do with aviation such questions. Several said QF was too risky to fly with & only one knew who runs QF & that he (Darth) made him money via shares.
Obviously the media with the recent QF failures have had an impact on QF's so called safety to the general public. And 'Darth' has only impressed one sector, the shareholdres, to hell with the rest of you lot at QF most likely !
Anybody else asked none aviation friends such Q's? Am curious as we (pilots, engineers CC etc) all know the real answers but we are obviously in the know & the minority but what of the ones that fly to get somewhere instead of for a living?
A once well respected Co. is now under the spotlight, not with us in the know but with the very ones that provide the funds to keep it going, the flying public.


CW

[Ngineer]

Anybody else asked none aviation friends such Q's?

A/ I have not asked, but I have been surprised how many non-aviation people have brought up in conversation GD's name and asked about the safety of Qantas.

[teresa green]

Well here is the good news. If he can be believed, Alan Joyce in last Saturday's Australian made the comment that he is very aware of QF staff disatisfaction and low morale, and he intends to "confer" with staff from all parts of the company, strangely enough I think he will, if from only being Irish, and we all know they can talk under water, (even if you have no idea what they are saying) (I had the dubious pleasure of sitting next to two of them at the Rugby World Cup) he also stated he cannot run the joint without staff being totally involved, soooo that is a start if nothing else. Can you imagine the one with the face like a dropped pie stating same? Perhaps, just perhaps...............:hmm::hmm:

[Lodown]

George Clooney would do to me what Dixon has done to Qantas....sigh

George Clooney is too busy tring to screw with the US economy, but I believe Robert Downey Jnr is available.

Not a happy thought having the company sliced and diced and sucked up through a straw.

[panther421]

The brand trashing continues.


Qantas city office fire (http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24545287-2761,00.html)

Replacement sign to say jetstar.:E

[dragon man]

Still going downhill. On the weekend a Bejing bound 330 had a new flight libary all the charts were in the books the problem was they were out of date. Yesterdays QF12 had a double radar failure, diverted to AKL following an Air New Zealand aircraft to give it weather avoidance. Today a 767 from Melbourne to Sydney couldnt retract the gear after take off, back to Melbourne. Just a standard week for the poor old QF Titanic.

[Ken Borough]

On the weekend a Bejing bound 330 had a new flight libary all the charts were in the books the problem was they were out of date.

Surely this is inexcusable? At what point was the problem stumbled on?

As for the other two problems, couldn't these be experienced by ANY operator with a large and diverse fleet?

[Capt Wally]

Might as well add the lattest QF news item in this thread, there's not enough room to list another new QF maint issue thread.

Ch10 showed 2nite QF B767 ML-SYD returned with a 'warning light' that the crew noticed regarding the U/C, all safe but boy the media love this, but are they getting better at acurate reporting?...NOPE, was a joke what they said.
More to come am sure.


CW

[Obie]

As much as we all like to back Qantas being the national airline and all, it really is time to accept the fact that our national airline is no better than Garuda!

A tacky third world airline that needs cleansing from the top down through ALL departments!

What a pity!

[framer]

it really is time to accept the fact that our national airline is no better than Garuda!


Obie Obie Obie.... QF seem to have dropped the ball on quality maintenance (management issue, not engineers issue),and they have had some high profile incidents recently for sure, but your statement is fanciful at best.
Which of the latest QF incidents was worse than the 1987 Garuda DC-9 accident? Or the 1996 DC-10 over-run? Or the 1997 Airbus CFIT? Or the 2002 accident when Garuda landed a 737 in a river 14nm short of the strip? Or the 2007 Yogyakarta over-run? All of these accidents were garuda, all involved fatalities.
I agree that QF needs a cleanout and the top is the best place to start, I hope it is already underway.

[kotoyebe]

I agree that QF needs a cleanout and the top is the best place to start, I hope it is already underway.

I doubt it very much, given the latest speech by the $12million dollar man with the well used "doom and gloom/consolidate or perish/Jetstar is our saviour" line.

They don't call "The Designate" mini-me for nothing, so don't expect any change from the current course.

[Ken Borough]

From Crikey today

Ben Sandilands writes:

Qantas has scored three headline incidents so far this week.
There were two yesterday, a turnback to Melbourne by a 767 domestic flight with an undercarriage that wouldn’t retract, and the trans Pacific 747 flight that used a nearby Air NZ jet as a seeing eye dog when its weather radar was inoperative for many hours.

On Sunday another QF 747 from Frankfurt arrived in Singapore to fire engines because of an undercarriage problem that delayed passengers for a day while it was fixed.

None of these incidents necessarily relate to maintenance failures at Qantas. And whether they did or didn’t result from the lowered standards of care already identified by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority in its ‘special’ audit of the carrier, the pilots did all the right things when the problems arose.
But the defensive outbursts by outgoing CEO Geoff Dixon raise more fundamental issues.

Why has the last two years of his tenure been such a shambles for Qantas customers? And will incoming CEO Alan Joyce, and hands on chairman Leigh Clifford, stick with a management culture that is a proven failure from a customer perspective, or do something about an airline that can’t keep its jets clean, punctual and fully maintained to the standards that once defined the Qantas brand?

The refusal of mechanics to work overtime for ten weeks in the middle of the year is not the reason why the airline was dysfunctional for months before that dispute, and which has been over for more than three months yet the network is still a mess.

Overtime wasn’t the reason why Qantas overlooked cracks in drip trays on a large part of its fleet, causing one 747 to have a gravely serious crisis near Bangkok on 7 January. It doesn’t explain why a maintenance team at Tullamarine last October pumped nitrogen into emergency oxygen packs, a feat of towering incompetence given the supposedly idiot proof design of the equipment they were using.

It doesn’t pardon the lie from its chief of engineering David Cox, that there was no safety problem with a missed airworthiness directive to modify the forward pressure bulkhead on six of its aged 737-400s (the ones mostly used out of Canberra) which went undetected for five years.

If Cox really has such a disregard for the gravity of compulsory airworthiness directives, which are, surprise, issued in order to correct safety issues, why is he still running the maintenance side of an airline that insists safety is of paramount concern?
Dixon’s recent comments need to be read in conjunction with the CASA audit of Qantas, which found that the airline was failing to maintain its own standards and contradicts his airbrushing of the carrier’s maintenance record.

No amount of posturing changes the farcical record of Qantas jets were being kept on the ground because of lack of spare parts or through the burden of page after page of time limited defects on jets for which there continues to be an inadequate engineering and maintenance resources.

This note from author and Fairfax escapee Ben Hills at the start of the week is just one of the Crikey collection of complaints about the inability of Qantas to keep its fleet in working order:Last night I was flying back from Melbourne to Sydney on QF 450, scheduled departure 4.30pm, and heard an interesting tale from two flight attendants. The flight was full to the rafters because it had been combined with QF446, which had been due to take off at 4pm but which had been cancelled. Turns out that everyone had boarded the plane when there was an announcement that they would have to deplane because of a “technical problem.”

In fact, said the two attendants, there was no technical problem. What had happened was that the plane scheduled for another flight, which was due to take off around the same time from Melbourne to Perth, had been discovered to have four blocked lavatories – apparently there are rules about how many lavatories have to be operating, and so the plane was ruled US. So Qantas decided to use the plane which had been scheduled for flight 446 instead, kicking off the Sydney passengers and replacing them with Perth passengers. To add to the chaos, there were not enough seats for everyone on QF 450, so some of those QF 446 passengers were kicked off the flight and left at Melbourne airport.

I cannot remember the last time I was on a Qantas flight that took off on time – not for at least a year. This has led to a curious fatalistic attitude by Qantas passengers, a bit like Londoners during the blitz, where they all gather together to share their woes and tell tall tales about their experiences, and the terrible lies that Qantas staff have to tell to cover up the airline’s problems.
There is a lot of work to be done to fix Qantas. Will Joyce take responsibility for this, or keep echoing Dixon’s platitudes?

[speedbirdhouse]

What needs to be understood with regard to Qantas is that the airline's purpose fundamentally changed when dickson took over.

It went from being an airline [which transports people] to a vehicle who's sole purpose was to generate senior executive wealth.

In it's new incarnation, under the direction of dickson and his pandering board, it has been spectacularly successful.:mad::mad::mad:

Are things going to be any different under clifford and that new bloke with the bad teeth?

I doubt it.

What's it going to take?

A hull loss?? :ugh::mad::ugh:

[Pegasus747]

from the casual observer it appears that a rout of management is currently taking place.

it would seem that the clifford/joyce team are removing anyone that had anything to do with the APA bid.

they should be in jail not given redundancy payments.......

i will wait with bated breath for the next round of executive moves (hopefully out the door)