BULLDOG Info required please.

[CRX]

Hello,
I'm trying to put together a case for my employer purchasing a Bulldog to use as a cadet hour builder, IMC trainer, general hack and engineer runaround. I have looked at our needs and feel that a Bulldog would tick most if not all of our requirements, if a little thirsty in the cruise.
Could I ask you kind folks to fill in the blanks please?

1. With two up and somewhere near full fuel, what payload would she be able to lift? Toolbox and spares? What size the rear 'baggage' area?

2. Is the Bulldog a realistic proposition for medium distance IFR flights? Say Scotland to Wales? (I know there is no anti ice kit)

3. What is the fuel burn per hour in economic cruise?

4. Is it a particularly maintenance heavy aircraft? Many AD's etc?

I have tried to research some of the above but only seem to get 'top trump' type answers. The real stuff would be helpful.

Finally are there any on the market at the moment, cant see any in the usual sales columns...
Any comments would be most welcome.

Thanks.

CRX.

[Phenom100]

HI,

If ur looking for spares in the future for Bulldog send me an e-mail and ill give you a competitive quote. We hold one of the largest consignments of spares for the Bulldog. [email protected]

[JP1]

From my experience of the a/c I fly..

1) lifting capacity 231kg (eg crew and baggage with full fuel). Definitely roomy in the back.

2) 32 UK gallons so work it out from (3) below.

3) about 8 UK gallons/hr for econmy cruise.

4) Only hire so I don't have an answer, but my impression is yes.

Fatigue Index is the main problem with the Bulldog. At 114 the wing spar needs some serious work. A lot of the Bulldogs around are near that value.

[NigelOnDraft]

Fatigue Index is the main problem with the Bulldog. At 114 the wing spar needs some serious work. A lot of the Bulldogs around are near that value.Especially any the Queen provided as my personal toy when a UAS student :oh:

NoD

[A and C]

Any Bulldog that is working for a living is a financal time bomb due to the work that has to be done at FI114.

This is why I don't have one, in all other respects it is a very good aircraft.

[Flyingplanner]

There are a number of ADs (see DHSL)web site for info, but none of them are particularly onerous and not exceptional for an aircraft with over 35 years service. The engine is a 200 hp Lycoming 360 with VP prop therefore more expensive to maintain than fixed prop. In normal operations I would say an average 45 litres per hour is more normal although on a low speed cruise you might get this down to 38 lph.

A&C appears not to have any experience of operating a Bulldog but his view is relevant if the intention was to use the aircraft for intensive aerobatics like Ultimate High. However, in normal use/IMC/Cross Country/non aerobatic training the evidence is that with a fatigue meter aircraft are averaging some 300 hours per FI. My group has operated a Bulldog in Civilian use for nearly 20 years and I have been in the group for 10 years and now manage the aircraft. If you want any further info just ask.

[A and C]

I take your point about the type of flying done and it's effect on the FI however the Buldog is not a very good aircraft for touring or IMC training, not because the aircraft can't do it well but because you are burning VP prop hours, More costly engine hours (lower TBO on aerobatic engines) and FI.

A Cessna 152 will do the IMC task at half the engine price, half the fuel price and a fraction of the Prop price, the same could be said of the PA28-180 for touring but it would only reduce the engine & fuel costs by about one third.

The bulldog was built for military training this involves a lot of aerobatics and in this role the Buldog is a superb aircraft the only problem being the FI issue.
My customers have asked me for an aerobatic aircraft, they don't want a tourer or an IMC trainer because they already lease the best aircraft for these roles from me and so if I had a bulldog it would be used exclusively for arobatics.

So it all boils down to the cost of the FI modification, once that has to be adressed I think that you may well see a lot of very cheap buldogs on the market when they reach the 114 FI mark.............. I await this day with interest.

[jxk]

Could always pull the FI cb:-)

[javelin]

VP prop hours ?

A VP prop can be operated on 2 schemes - either a Notice 75 with recurrent time based inspections or by TBO based on the manufacturers scheme, which for a Hartzell is not a big problem.

Any VP aeroplane is similar and in my opinion gives much better operating flexibility than a fixed pitch, despite the extra maintenance.

[A and C]

I do take the point about aircraft performance however in the marketplace it is cost that rules, people will travel a long way to save a few quid and if the VP prop puts the price of say an IMC rating up by only a few £ then you will see the customers walk out of the door.

JXK Quote you could always pull FI cb

I can only say that I have never seen such a criminly irsponsable comment on these pages, to disable the IF meter is to build up probems for the future.

No doubt the fact that your actions might kill someone in the future don't bother you but I can assure you that if I see you doing such a thing I will report you to the CAA enforcment branch without delay.

[Granite City Flyer]

Notice 75 was replaced by CAP747 GR NO.17 several years ago and states the propeller should be overhauled:

Whichever occurs first of operating hours or calendar period as published by the propeller manufacturer.

So even if an aeroplane (with a VP prop) only did 100 hours over this period (typically 6 years ish), the propeller would need a full overhaul. For a low utilisation aeroplane this can be a significant cost per hour.

The Bulldog is a magnificant aeroplane, I've flown many (inc first solo on UAS) and maintained a fair few. However, having recently purchased an aeroplane (Bulldog was considered) I couldn't quite bring myself to spend my own money on one. Not a very efficient tourer/IFR trainer with all that built in headwind + only 2 seats (unless you get a Sweedish/Hungarain one), and local aeros jollys get boring eventually especially with £1.87 avgas.

[youngskywalker]

Blimey GCF, your doing okay for yourself now, you couldnt afford to buy a beer a year ago! Speaking of which, you must be owe me one...:ok:

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Having completed RAF Elementary Flying Training on the mighty Bulldog I am very fond of the aeroplane and would love to fly one again.

Off the top of my head:

Fuel burn for planning purposes was 10.7 GPH, rounded to 12 GPH to make the mental arithmetic easier. This would give an endurance of 2h30 at about 120kts.

It has been a long time since I last flew the 'dog so my memories may be defective, but these figures ring a bell. I have all the manuals in the loft so I might be able to check the precise figures.

My gut feeling is that the Bulldog is not really a long range IFR tourer, a role that might be better achieved by an aeroplane not optimised as a military trainer. You can definitely get two big blokes, full tanks and two nightstop bags onboard, though.

As for 'a cadet hour builder', sounds wonderful but I don't think many people will be able to afford to build hours at Bulldog prices. If people are looking to build, say 150hrs towards fATPL, they'll be looking for low hourly costs and except when the MoD used to foot the bill, that's not the Bulldog.

[Granite City Flyer]

youngskywalker -you coming for a ride in the Rocket - its a lovely day.

[youngskywalker]

Sure! Love a ride in the Rocket! Will I need my pressure suit? ;)

[Granite City Flyer]

No, its not as good as the one Bose-x owns.

[youngskywalker]

:ooh: now surely that will get a reaction!

Now back to the Bulldog, where is SNS3Guppy and 30 paragraphs with war stories when you need him??

[Fake Sealion]

Clearly quite a few ex-Bulldog pilots out there in Ppruneland?

Perhaps they could set up a dedicated sub-forum. Avoiding the word "dogging" in the title is essential however.:=

Lots of issues to be considered in owning and operating one but good to see so many still going on UK register.

My first solo mount XX555 now lives in France - still in UAS colours thankfully.

Went on to fly a total of 23 different Bulldogs in UAS & RNEFTS service and so contributed to a fare share of spar fatigue hours!:ok:

[K.Whyjelly]

Figures direct from my FRC's:

Card 9 (AL13)

Best Power Mixture
Fuel Consumption - (ISA, all altitudes and weights)

Power% RPM GPH
95 2600/2400/2200 12.5 / - / -
90 11.9 / - / -
80 10.7 / 10.5 / -
70 9.7 / 9.4 / 9.1
60 8.7 / 8.4 / 8.1
50 7.7 / 7.4 / 7.1
40 6.8 / 6.4 / 6.2

Best Economy Mixture

Power% RPM GPH
70 2600/2400/2200/2000/1800 8.3 / 8.1 / - / - / -
60 7.4 / 7.2 / 6.9 / - / -
50 6.5 / 6.3 / 6.1 / 5.9 / 5.7
40 5.6 / 5.4 / 5.2 / 5.0 / 4.8



As far as range is concerned, the best indicated on the FRC's on Card 10a is 426nm based on full fuel (28 gallons). An arbitrary 4 gallons allowance has been made for descent, landing and unusable fuel from the 32 gallon capacity. At 8000ft and 50% power/2200rpm using best economy mixture this returns the above range figure. At the other end of the perf tables if you use best power mixture at 95%/2600 rpm down at sea level you will get 247nm for those same 28 gallons.

A climb to 10000ft at ISA, MTOM and maximum power will take 14mins and use 2.6gallons. ( A quickie up to 2000ft will use 0.5 gallons)

Published AUW is 2350lbs and maximum load in baggage compartment is 220lbs

Caveat

All figures prepared by Royal Air Force Handling Squadron, Boscombe, for Bulldog T Mk1 and may differ from what your aircraft may experience.

[airborne_artist]

My first solo mount XX555 now lives in France - still in UAS colours thankfully

Sadly my first solo aircraft was cat5'd on Southport beach by a solo UAS stude on an un-auth'd fly-by :( report (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/13EF6E23-1416-4D7F-81FB-9FB562FB71E0/0/maas88_18_bulldo_tmk1_xx712_2mar88.pdf)