which position should I take?

[210oneday]

hey guys and girls,

ive been an airvan first officer now for 2 years and i've been asked by my company to take command on a c182RG in another 6 months or if i stay as a first officer on the ga8 for another year I'll eventually get my command. I'm now confused as I don't know whether or not I should take the command position or just wait it out because I know that the airlines like guys with multi-crew experience. I've now got about 1200 hours with about 312.3 command. I was just wondering if anybody has taken this same path before, and if you could offer any advice it would be very much appreciated.

[supermaniac25]

Well mate that all depends on whether your great company will expect you to pay out the cost of you bond on the airvan or not. The 182 is also a pretty crazy aircraft. I dont know if 1200 hours is really enough to take command of one. But the kids these days seem to be doing ok. Make sure you get a good training captain on the 182 aswell. I know a few crusty old 182 checkies that love grilling you airvan fo's. They'll make your life hell for that circuit.
Goodluck.

[j3pipercub]

please tell me this is a windup

[210oneday]

What do you mean? Are you a captain on the piper cub and if you are how long did it take you to get your command?

Thanks in advance.

[rep]

"I dont know if 1200 hours is really enough to take command of one"

LOL

[210oneday]

I know thats what my chief pilot says... I just don't get why there are people out there with 200 hours with captaincy on 210's, I mean they even have to remember to put the wheels up and down... I guess that this just proves how bad the pilot shortage is...

[flog]

Cmon guys, it's an RG, one needs some time up before one tackles the complex types.

[rep]

i dont put the wheels up on my 210, its a clear waste of electrons

[apache]

the wheels go up on a 210 ????

is this some fancy new mod?

[210oneday]

I'm not to sure, I'm not endorsed. The 210 drivers don't really talk to me but they did let me clean the windscreen once... those were the days

[TinDriver]

All the other replies have been less than helpful to you 210........

I, on the other hand, shall assume you have a genuine question, and to help you out, I would suggest you should "assume" the position to accomodate a pineapple.:ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Forget the C182 and the Airvan 210, I can get you a direct entry command on the latest high tech model of the 'Cherokee six', it is of course going to cost you to fly this wonderful aircraft that is older than you...;)

[sms777]

Sorry to say but your chief pilot treat you like a mushroom. Keep you in the dark and feed you with bull****.
When i started flying it took me 15 hours to earn "captaincy" of the mighty Tomahawk and 200 hours later i was Captain of a PA-31 Chieftain.
But than again my middle name is "FIGJAM" :E

[Tiger 77]

Hey c210guy

The c182 is a great aircraft, but its only single engine and single pilot. I think you'd be much better off staying on the airvan and logging the twin hours (even though only as f/o) and waiting for the upgrade.

But thats just what i'd do.

Cheers,

Tiger.

[Ratshit]

What a tough decision for a young pilot to make!

1) Keep racking up those valuable SE piston F/O hours on the GA8 Airvan, or
2) Step up to the plate an try for "Command" on the mightly C182RG.

which position should I take?

Something different to the one you are currently in! ....... errrrr, that's the one where your draws are down around your feet and your hands are tightly gripping your ankles.

Rat :cool:


PS: I had 150 hrs TOTAL when I made "Captain" on a C210 - but I guess I was something of a progidy!

[snoop doggy dog]

:ok:

It's a pretty big step up to command on the C182, especially the RG. It's really a down to you mate. You may need to ask yourself the following questions in addition to many others:

1. Do I have what it takes for Captaincy on the C182RG?
2. Do I have the time and committment to study the complexity of the 182RG?
3. How well do I know the SOPs?
4. I'm I really ready?

As 25 was saying, the checkies do love grilling the Airvan efos, and it's not easy. You probably have at least another 2 or 3 years left on your Airvan bond, so you will need to consider the extra bond committment on the 182. An opportunity may come along in the mean time for a command on the C206 or even a C210 in a year or 2. I have heard of this happening recently. :eek:

Tough decision, but it's great that you have such a hard choice to make! I would have loved to have been in your shoes at 1200 hours! I was only an SO on the C152 at 1200 hours. :(

My, how things have changed!

Hope this helps and Good luck 210, it sounds as if your career is going along at full steam! ;)

[AussieNick]

:rolleyes: you have got to be taking the piss

[rep]

damn snoop dogg, i wish i was as lucky as you being SO on a 172

for 1500hrs i was SO on a 152 doing charter ops

[VH-XXX]

Before I even read the thread I was going to suggest taking the Foetal position. I stick by my initial thoughts. With that many hours required to be the captain of a 182RG I myself would be rolled up in the foetal position crying myself to sleep every night.

Unless your company is flying around the Queen or something, it seems a little over the top.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

What exactly does an Airvan F/O do? Pass out the sangers?

Dr :8

[Pilotette]

Tiger 77..."staying on the airvan and logging the twin hours"...

What the? Last I checked it was a SE? :confused:

[Howard Hughes]

I was only an SO on the C152 at 1200 hours.
Where does the SO sit in a 152?:ooh:

[gettin' there]

Have i missed something?:\ WTF?

[sms777]

Come on guys/girls!
Lot of you seem to be missing the sarcasm on this thread. I can't be the only one with sense of humour here.

I think 210 is having a ball here :D

[Capt Wally]

hey I'm enjoying this thread, we don't often see/read such stuff to excite the highly experienced in here (say >100TT:})
What 'van' operator would have an F/O anyway? That's a seat gone to a none fair paying bum, in fact a 'van' F/O must cost them, say a buck a day!
I love it keep the suggestions coming before the anti-fun Mods step in:E
BTW one has to wonder how many bars a 'van F/O wears? How do you get a figure less than one ?:bored:



CW

[helopat]

:}:}:}:}:}

Jeeeeesus...I laughed till I cried...thanks for the pick me up.

[sms777]

O.K. Let's keep it rolling.

Hey 210!
Does your boss make you wear helmet with intercom, nomax gloves and Kevlar underpants?

[povopilot]

Best thread for ages. I can only dream of getting a RHS job on a 182. Boy it must be great - how many bars do i get to wear?. Can i do the endo in Microsoft Flight Simulator?

[FlyCessna]

further to that.... does your boss make you wear a nomex flying suit? Maybe he even lets you say "ahhh roger that" on the radio :p

[sms777]

You wanna know how many bars an airvan F/O wears?
None. He wears a cross meaning " S/O out of service" ;)


:ok:

[troppo]

Son,
It's nice to see someone asking such important career questions.
Don't tell anyone cos there is a lot of competition but I can offer you a gig as a FA on a C208. Its multicrew and turbine. Your current experience should see you being promoted to the esteemed position of First Officer on our C208 within 24 months.
Don't sell yourself short on the C182.
Please confirm by return post your acceptance of this offer so we can negotiate bond, pay for training and possibly a per diem in lieu of salary.

[Dixondik]

Doc,

I can't believe you didn't know what an Airvan F/O is responsible for:

a) Ensuring mixture full rich prior to departure;
b) Reading out V-speeds and ensuring a positive ROC is attained prior to raising the imaginary landing gear
c) Handing out the sandwiches (well done Doc!);
d) Holding the piss bottle for the 4 bar PIC, his immense amount of experience is something to take your hat off to; and
e) Managing RT and NAV because SE piston aircraft are so difficult for single pilot VFR ops.

Hope that helps FTDK.

[Xeptu]

This thread brings back memories, god damn it must be 30 years past, but still brings on a tear. I remember it well like it was yesterday.

They were men in those days you know, there we were us junior C172 pilots, we would look out the window of the flight lounge across the apron in envy at the refueller, he was the only one that wasn’t a senior C210 Captain allowed anywhere near them, we used to stay back after work and dream up ways to get on board that fuel truck, just for a glimpse inside one of those 210’s.

It was a particularly emotional time when the 210’s would come in from a charter at the end of the day, we would line up and push in as the 210 Captains would file through the door, just for a chance to carry their nav bags and feel the weight of those logbooks. They would’nt speak to us of course and honestly we didn’t really expect them too, just to be in their presence was humbling enough.

They all fly for our National Carrier still today, second officers, every one of them to a man, makes ya proud doesn’t it, well every one except Captain Jake, he had an unfortunate car accident, leaving work one day he backed into the Chiefs car in the carpark scratching the bumperbar on his brand new Kingswood. Poor Jake he was hospitalized with horrific injuries. The doctors had to amputate an arm and a leg.

We knew this would be our lucky break though, next morning we arrived at work earlier than the usual 2 hours and waited. The Chief came in still angry from the night before, he would need a new 210 Captain, who would it be, we would look busy polishing the counter in hope the Chief would notice. “Paul” he bellowed, “I’m going to need a 210 Captain are you up for the task Son. “Oh! Yes ! Sir absolutely Sir” he responded. Well I nearly shat myself and melted down between the cracks in the floorboard. Paul you lucky Bastard, this is it mate I thought. I could see his forehead had broken out into a sweat, it was a big ask I knew. The 210 boys would fly 2 hour sectors across 2 gulfs and the most inhospitable terrain in Australia, the Yorke Peninsula. None of us had flown overseas before, it was like he had been knighted by the queen.

So Son there you go, like your forefathers before you, you grab that 182RG Command with both hands, it’s not a 210 I know but one day like us you’ll be proudly flying for our National Carrier “EMUAIR”

Wot’s that you say Stan, what do you mean EMUAIR is not our National Carrier, get outa here.

[kongdong]

you will do SO well in the Kimberley

[supermaniac25]

The major question that is still to be asked is whether it is a 2 or 3 bladed prop on the 182. I would say with your time the 3 is definately out of the question. I wouldn't even consider letting a guy with your sort of experience out on a 3. One more blade means one more thing that can go wrong for you and I just can't see you handling it. The 2 is certainly worth considering. Just be careful! She can get away from you if your not on the ball. A good tip I remember the checkies harping on about in the smoko room is that in the 182, in particular the 2 blader, Power + Attitude = Performance. 1 simple formulae that will keep you out of trouble. I would say that the FA job on the 208 could be a good option until you get comfortable with cessna type aircraft. The operating phylosiphy of cessna type aircraft to that of the airvan is way different and borderline dangerous. While all of your mates with similar hours are putting in the hard yards in the back seat of one of those ugly frog created airbus things, you'll be cruising along logging precious command time in ya 182. Think of the respect!:ok:

[Ovation]

which position should I take?


The Missionary position?

[flysaucer1200]

I concur with your difficulties ‘210 OneDay‘,
I too am struggling here in old NZ. But, the other day my spirits were lifted after speaking to a retired aviator of grand experience. He’s certainly well known around NZ. His name is, Ben Hover. He told me that he definitely took a lot of it. All the way up there, from the management to the chief stick. Many nights of all kinds of abuse. But, he said that is was worth it, if you could stick it out, and take it in, the air through your lungs, one breath at a time.
Ben Hover said once he had his CPL, he walked the chief pilot’s dogs for two and half years to earn his IFR. Then after patiently waiting his turn, shearing sheep to pass time, he finally got his chance to move up, to a washing fleet position. This lasted 4 months and a few management heads noticed his dedication, so they allowed him to stack bags on planes, but only in the freezing rain, and sweltering hot summer days to give the other bag throwers a rest. Sticking at it Ben Hover then moved into a full time bag thrower position After 14 months he got another break, perhaps as he said one of the bigger breaks of his life, he was allowed to taxi the single two seaters from maintainence sheds to the fleet hanger. 10 months of this and the chief pilot felt confident Ben Hover Could handle an odd flight here or there, so once a week he allowed him to fly the 152’s over to the other airfield for the weekend bashers to do hours on. But, his job was to guard the plane all weekend, and then return it on Monday and 6am. Off course this meant sleeping in a barn with the flea bitten dog and sharing stories on Saturday night with the mad 90 year old toothless station hand. But, as Ben Hover said, ‘mate, you just gotta grip your teeth on that leather, and bite hard” Soon, after one year and a bit, Ben Hover was picked from the elite group of bottom feeders and given the Cessna 172 manual to study. After a two day exam made of flying and brain teasing questions on the 172 procedures, Ben Hover was given a right hand seat check and made first officer. In that job for 4 years he was happy to bursting around the skies, operating the cigarette lighter and thermos for the captain. But after 6 months trail he himself became captain of the 172.
From this position Ben Hover gradually moved up to 172RG for the next three years, then 182 for 10 months, Cessna 210 F/O 2 years, captain 210 3 years, Nomad second officer at a Sydney parachute school, then after 3 years as F/O, onto the captaincy of the Nomad. Then he said, after many years, 4657 hours, and countless tubes of Vaseline, for his sore toes ( from old shoes ) his most happiest moment came when he was offered a position as a single charter pilot at night flying freight. I asked him, “man you finally got to fly the twins hu?” He looked at me puzzled and said “no Son, after a week on the 310 flying to Moree and Walgett, I finally got my first pay check in aviation. You see, I had been working building my hours up to this point. And, son that’s what you have to do to make it in this game!” Ben Hover did go on to fly turbo props and jets and what not. But now he has retired. He takes life easy now tending to his many acres of pineapples that he sells to many aviation companies that use them for…….freight.
Fly My Saucer 1200

[MACH082]

Sounds like you work for a Derby operator mate,

Best advice, hold out for a command on that airvan, you never know you might get some icus on the 182 while you are at it. If your a company man, tow the line, master the classic turn back and and learn how to land a difficult aircraft like the airvan, you may be offered a bond and FO slot on the floats! Just remember your takeoff safety brief in the airvan, they are worse than a loaded PA31 after a donk stops, even if you get your EFATO drills done in an instant and get her settled into vyse, she will be going down like the kursk.

The future is looking rosy mate!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

This is rather odd!

I would have thought the logical pathway was from FO on the Airvan to FO on the C182RG then Command on the Airvan. Then only if you are really lucky would you expect a shot at Command on an airplane as complex as the RG.

I guess that's the pilot shortage kicking in.

One can only hope that CASA are monitoring this closely!

Dr :8

[Desert Flower]

He’s certainly well known around NZ. His name is, Ben Hover.

Are you sure it's not Ben Dover? ;)

DF.

[WangFunk]

You should just 'assume' the positon. The BTT (Bend over Touch your Toes) springs to mind. Im certain they will show you where the monster goes!!

[snoop doggy dog]

rep, I was a 152 SO like yourself mate ;) I held out till 2500 hours and got a right seat slot on the 210 :cool: It was worth the wait mate :p

Pure brilliance 210, brings back a lot of great memories and it's bloody good to have a laugh!

:ok: :ok: Double thumbs for the thread

[sms777]

HaHaHaHaHa.....:D:D:D This is killing me!!

Hey 210! Buddy...
Are you still with us? :D:D

[mr.tos]

If there are SO on a 182... how many officers do they have on the 744 these days??? :}

[sms777]

There are several asian and african airlines that have questionnaires to fill out before you board their aircraft. One of the questions is "how many air disaster movies have you watched in the last 12 months?". If your answer is more than two than you are automatically selected as deputy SO for their flight. That means could be up to 386 SO's on a 744.
I hope this satisfies your query :E

(do i get a lollypop for that one?) :p:p Please...Please

[210oneday]

hey guys thanks very much for the replies... well most of them,.. some of u i have the feeling that u may be making fun of me but, for those of u that r willing to take this serious here r a few answers to your questions... the position of the FO in an airvan is a very serious one, i am in charge of the landing lights and fuel pumps...but only in exceptional circumstances. i am unfortunately unable to wear any bars at the moment but once the chief engineer let me wear his shirt because my chief pilot got stains all over my shirt.


PS i log all of these hours as dual but i keep a seperate log as co-pilot (coz the airlines love multi-crew ops)... i also know how the airlines love over head panels and control columns that come out of the floor.

PSS To SMS 777 no i dont wear kevlar underpants but i do wear a fire retardant flight suite and my captain does play the dangerzone theme song whilst we walk out onto the apron and during take-off and landing. I also enjoy volleyball games and our unique handshake which we have spent hours perfecting. He has also told me I can be his wingman any time which to me means that i am making progress... God I love this industry, I love the smell of avgas in the morning!

[Capt Wally]

............hey I was beginning to wonder where 'wonderboy' (210oneday) had got to:) Anyway was worth a laugh or two. reading these posts shows that afterall the hassles we experience in aviation (not you '210' you have the best job:ok:) we all still have a SOH:)


CW

p.s......"210oneday" it's 2 stoke son 2 stroke that smells nothing like it in the morning, just ask DK, besides the 'van' probably runs on it anyway:E

And finally in another famous saying fom DK re you want a cmd on a 'van'.............tell him he's dreamin'!:E