Former Lightning people?

[Tim McLelland]

I'm embarking on another book project, this time a fairly ambitious look at the Lightning. Yes, I know it's not the most original subject (not my idea!) but it's a very popular one!

So, could I please send-out a plea for feedback from any former Lightning people, be they air or ground crew. I'm on the lookout for first-hand accounts of life with the Lightning, operations, unusual incidents, how the aircraft handled, and so on.

Likewise, I'm also searching for photographs, particularly ones which might not have been seen before. There were also lots of fairly well-known RAF/MoD images of the Lightning, particularly back in the 'sixties and 'seventies, but most of these have disappeared over time (anyone seen any of the old Keith Wilson shots too - the 56 Squadron images, etc?). If anybody knows where I might be able to trace some of the old shots that wuld be a great help - would be nice to recover some of them to show to a new generation if at all possible.

If anyone wants to contact me, please send me a message or email me, and I can answer questions or provide any details about the project as required. Cheers guys!

[email protected]

[BOAC]

What are you paying?

[Evalu8ter]

Are you going to lament the lack of a Carrier version?

"Someone at English Electric told me it would be a doddle"!

Sorry Tim, couldn't help myself....

Good luck with the book!

[BOAC]

Tried an approach on Ark in a MK6 one day - frightened myself @@@@less:)

[safetypee]

… first-hand accounts of life with the Lightning, operations, … and so on.
Like the supersonic '4 ship' run over the Russian fleet off Papa Westray.
Why the interim Mk 6s had stick-on black tape ventral tank gun ports when transiting through Iran.
And what a ‘bottle and 200’ under the ejection seat of the Mk 2As on the RAFG battle flight were for.
We’ve already made contact Tim.

[Tim McLelland]

Indeed, stories like that are obviously of interest but also the simple day-to-day operations are always worth recalling too. For the typical reader who has probably never flown an aircraft of any description, it's always fascinating to read about hands-on stuff.

At present I haven't got any real specifics for the text. I don't want to do the usual potted history as it's been done too many times before, but of course I'm obliged to trace the history of the aircraft in some form. I'll probably try to stick to the bare bones of the Lightning's development and operational history and build on that with first-hand accounts so that the book's a better read. Think everyone would agree that simple plodding through the same history yet again wouldn't be much fun?!

As for photos, I've got plenty of space for pretty-much as many images as I can find which is good news. The bad news is that so many of the shots that have been around for years seem to have disappeared now. There's certainly lots of stuff floating around on the internet but most of these are copies of copies that have lost so much quality that they're hardly worth publishing again. It's a great shame that so many shots have disappeared. Apart from the afore-mentioned shots taken by Mr.Wilson (which I will endeavour to find) even the official RAF stuff is thin on the ground now. I noticed that the "new-look" (ie- rubbish) RAF site managed to take-away some of the beautiful old shots they had on their (including the Firebirds) and replace them with tiny poor-resolution versions. Guess that's progress?!

Anyways thanks for the feedback guys and if anyone spots anything or anyone else of interest do please let me know - all help appreciated.

Tim

[newt]

I hear there is a group of WIWOLs playing golf at Watton next Wednesday!!
For the price of a few beers you might get some good yarns!!

PS Any former Lightning drivers who wish to play do get in touch with Ed Durham ASAP as Im sure there is room for a few more!!

[TiffyFGR4]

Hey Tim,

A couple of months ago, I got a load of junk mail through the letter box, like you do, but among it was something interesting, a little mini catalogue, kinda like what you'd get free in the TV times or some general interests magazine, it was just about military related stuff, steam locomotives, motor bikes, books, DVD's etc etc etc. And in it was a DVD about the EE Lightning, I remember reading about what it featured, unseen footage, interviews from pilots, ground crew, (I think?), design stage, development from day one until it's last day(s) in operational service etc etc etc...Pretty much everything & I'm guessing a lot of things we all know very little about. I haven't seen it in any stores.

I'm after ordering that DVD for myself, I really need it, but I've lost the catalogue that it's in, looked everywhere for it, I even asked my girl that lives in Dubai if she's seen it because I was flicking through it on a flight on the way there, but I'm 100% certain it's here at home in Geordie land somewhere. If I'll find it I'll let you know, what the catalogue name is, what the proper name of the DVD is, who it's published by & what not. It might come into some good use for your project, give you some information. (If you haven't already heard of it & seen it).

And also, I think I read that the running time is the best part of two hours or so. Sounds great.

But anyway, very best of luck on your project, can't wait to read it. It'd be a great read I'm sure. EE Lightning is one of my, if not, THE favourite aircraft of all time.

Regards.

[Zoom]

You could probably fill a chapter on failed rotation take-offs alone, especially those that took place immediately after various runways had been resurfaced ...... and immediately wrecked!

[Tim McLelland]

Do elaborate zoom ... :)

Quite agree Tiffy, it's a great subject no matter how many times it gets tackled in book form. I'm just a little reluctant to churn-out the same sort of thing that has been done before, but it's a struggle to find people who either have the time or inclination to talk about their experiences. I think a lot of it is down to the usual problem of finding the time to recollect things, plus there's also the problem that when stories are remembered, it's often difficult to establish the facts when so many years have gone by! It's not impossible though.

I think my problem is going to be the photographs, as the more I look into it, the worse the situation seems to be. There's a lot of Lighning imagery about, but not an awful lot which is good enough to publish in book form any more. But I'll press-on and see what we can discover!

[TiffyFGR4]

yeah, I can imagine it's a struggle to find people to talk about their experiences, especially the earlier genertation of EE Lightning pilots & groundcrew, and of course the ones that developed it, it'd be fascinating to read about their experiences, because you know, pretty much nothing had been close to the EE Lightning in out-right performence, would've been a hell of an experience for anyone at that time.

And also, you've heard of BAE Systems test pilot Graig Penrice I believe, as I believe you already know he used to be a Lightning pilot, flew Tornado, F-14, F-16, F-15, F-18, Mig-29, Typhoon & countless others. It'd be interesting to read about his experences, especially compared to the other fighters he's flown. Be a great read.

Well anyway, best of luck once again matey.

[EGGP]

Tim

Have you spoken to Ian Black? When he was doing the airshows in 1986 while on 11 sqn he had a binder full of shots that he was selling, I know because I had a leaf through and bought a couple of 8x10's which were stunning. I have not seen these in any of his books or others published since. AFAIR there were quite a few such in the binder.

I am also nuts about Lightnings and have bought a copy of everything published since including both of Stuart Scott's volumes.

I wonder if Chris Allan also has anything you could use?

best wishes
EGGP

[nipva]

Tried an approach on Ark in a MK6 one day - frightened myself @@@@less

Did the same as a pair on Hermes out in Malta in early 70s but being JP and very wet behind the ears completely failed to hear the alarm bells when my esteemed leader called me in to echelon starboard for the approach. I've never been that close to a radar stack since!! (my esteem for my leader evaporated pretty quickly too)

[Warmtoast]

Tim

TiffyFGA4 referred to a mail-order DVD catalogue:

a little mini catalogue, kinda like what you'd get free in the TV times or some general interests magazine, it was just about military related stuff, steam locomotives, motor bikes, books, DVD's etc etc etc. And in it was a DVD about the EE Lightning, I remember reading about what it featured, unseen footage, interviews from pilots, ground crew, (I think?), design stage, development from day one until it's last day(s) in operational service etc etc etc...Pretty much everything & I'm guessing a lot of things we all know very little about. I haven't seen it in any stores

I think this is the one he was referring to. Synopsis follows:

Classic British Jets - Lightning
Running Time - 1 hr 11
Certificate - Exempt
Number of Discs - 1
Subtitles - No
Region - 0
Price: £12.99
The English Electric Lightning was the RAF's first and only all-British supersonic fighter. This 'Cold War Warrior' was conceived in 1947 and remained in operational service until the late 1980s. Ferocious and unforgiving to fly, and built around a powerful weapons systems, its pilots were the undisputed elite heirs to the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots of the Battle of Britain.
LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR puts you in the cockpit of this classic British fighter and reveals what it was really like to fly on operational service.
Made with unprecedented access to the English Electric and British Aerospace archives at Warton, LIGHTNING INTERCEPTOR features much rare and exclusive film materials, including manufacturer's own footage, Squadron Scrambles, intercept footage, Farnborough appearances, live weapons practice and in-flight refuelling.
The makers of the DVD have also been granted unprecedented access to the film archives of No.74 Squadron at Wattisham for operational film materials, while ex-squadron members provide fascinating first-hand accounts of what the Lightning was like to fly.
Other highlights include a full technical walk around and exclusive interviews with 'Bea' Beaumont, Air Vice Marshal John Howe and chief test pilot Eric Brown, who compares the Lightning with other jets of the era - including rival Soviet interceptors - which he tested.

Further details here:
Buy Classic British Jets - Lightning online from Simply Home Entertainment (http://www.simplyhe.co.uk/Shop/Aviation/Cold+War+Aviation/121488+Classic+British+Jets+-+Lightning.htm)

FWIW current Lightning book list is as follows. It's obvious you'll be entering a fairly full market of Lightning books.

Books:
'Lightning Force: RAF Units 1960-1988 - A Photographic Appreciation of the English Electric Lightning'
by Fred Martin
Published by Dalrymple and Verdun Publishing, June 2005 ISBN: 1905414005
* Pictorial coverage of all the RAF squadrons that operated the Lightning.

'Lightning Strikes: English Electric's Supersonic Fighter in Action'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, May 2001 ISBN: 1840372362
* Superb collection of action photos, with informative captions and amusing anecdotes.

'English Electric Lightning: Vol.1 Birth of a Legend '
by Stewart Scott
Published by GMS Enterprises, Sept 2000 ISBN: 1870384784
* Very detailed comprehensive history of the formative years of the Lightning.

'Lightning From The Cockpit: Flying the Supersonic Legend'
by Peter Caygill
Published by Leo Cooper Ltd, 30 July 2004 ISBN: 1844150828
* Sixteen personal accounts of what it was like to fly the Lightning.

'The English Electric Lightning: A Comprehensive Guide for the Modeller'
by Richard J Caruana
Published by SAM Publications, 1 Jan 2003 ISBN: 0953346579
* Well illustrated guide for modellers with fold-out scale plans and close-up details.

'The Last of the Lightnings'
by Ian Black
Published by Patrick Stephens Limited, Oct 1996 ISBN: 1852605413
* Recalls the operations of 5 and XI Squadrons from Binbrook, with excellent colour photos.

'English Electric Lightning (Crowood Aviation Series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by The Crowood Press, 29 April 2005 ISBN: 1861267371
* A celebration of the British fighter, with appendices listing units, production totals and individual aircraft histories.

'English Electric/BAC Lightning'
by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny
Published by Osprey Publications Ltd, Nov 1984 ISBN: 0850455626
* Very well written history of the Lightning, published before it's retirement.

'The English Electric Lightning (Images of Aviation series)'
by Martin W Bowman
Published by Tempus Publishing Ltd, Aug 1999 ISBN: 0752417061
* Collection of b+w Lightning photos.

'Lightning: The Operational History'
by Kev Darling
Published by Airlife Publishing, July 1995 ISBN: 185310521X
* Development and service use of the Lightning by RAF, RSAF and KAF.

'English Electric Lightning: Warbird Tech 28'
by Kev Darling
Published by Speciality Press, Jan 2001 ISBN: 1 58007 028 0
* Development history with b+w reprints from Lightning technical manuals.

'English Electric Aircraft Since 1908'
by A J Jackson
Published by Putnam Aeronautical Books, 1990 ISBN: 0 85177 834 8
* Detailed company history with a chapter on the Lightning.

'Wings Of Fame Volume 7'
Published by Aerospace Publishing, 1997 ISBN: 1 874023 97 2 (pb)/1 874023 98 0 (hb)
* Includes well written 66-page feature on the Lightning.

[Tim McLelland]

Yup, it's one of the most popular subjects. Have to admit it's not a subject I suggested but the publisher wants it, and they've probably made the correct assumption that there's always interest in a Lightning book, no matter how many have appeared in the past. It's just a bit frustrating from my viewpoint as there's always the desire to produce something a little different from the other books but it's almost impossible!

Re- Ian Black and Chris Allan, I am trying to track them down of course - but so far no luck. Anyone have any clues where they might be lurking these days. Ahh... once upon a time we all worked for the same publisher - life was much easier!:)

[Five Livers]

You'll find Chris Allan in Hong Kong working as a Senior Training Captain for CX on the 777

[4PON4PIN]

Have sent Ian an-email drawing attention to this thread.

[Tim McLelland]

Cheers, most kind!:ok:

[EGGP]

Tim

I was struck by this contribution from Prankster on the thread below

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/345254-why-didnt-they-upgrade-lightning.html


Lightning My Ar..
The reason 'they' never uprated the Lightning is 'cos we (RR) never did quite solve the engine fires problem. Oh we knew what the cause was and fiddled and faddled and faddled and fiddled. RAF Dogger Bank collected more Lightnings than remained in service at the end of its life. Even the Hucknall flying test bed ended up parting company with its pilot somewhere near Grantham due to yes you guessed an engine fire. Nuff said


If this is true why did RR not sort the problem if they knew the cause, or was the Lightning doomed by the Sandys white paper by then? I don't recall this being covered in any previous tomes. Would this be worth looking into further as part of your new book?

EGGP

[Jaysi]

Tim, Blackie (Ian) fies for Virgin and will have dozens of unpublished photos. I have a perspective from the very last years at Binbrook; types of flying, characters, funnies (stude on LTF went to jet for first supersonic sortie solo in F3 and didn't have fuel in ventral tank but told no-one and went anyway...), that sort of thing.

[OwnNav]

Tim

You could contact Simon Manning (see below) who now flies for My Travel, Training Captain I think, looks like he might have an interesting tale to tell....

http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 2nd December 2002, 13:02 #11 (http://www.pprune.org/704022-post11.html) (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/73801-xs937-m-crash.html#post704022)) D120A (http://www.pprune.org/members/59941-d120a)

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 90


I am rather familiar with this one as I was the squadron’s engineering officer at the time. The squadron was deployed to Leconfield because Binbrook’s runway was being re-surfaced.

XS937 flew satisfactorily on its first sortie that morning (nothing like a successful sortie for establishing the airworthiness of an aircraft…), had a pilot-staying-in turn-round and flew again. On selecting undercarriage down, Simon Manning got two greens and a red, and after trying the usual rolling and pulling tricks to no avail, flew a number of times past Leconfield’s tower for a close look. The undercarriage leg was swinging half way between up and down, seemingly unconnected to its jack. We couldn’t see why it had become disconnected, but it was probably either a failure of the jack eye end (remember the Lightning’s main jack pulled the gear down and pushed it up), or, more likely, a failure of the jack attachment lugs at the top of the main leg casting.

It is unlikely any manoeuvre would succeed in locking a leg down in this condition – the aerodynamic loads on the wheel as it comes down forwards from the swept wing are in the wrong direction. And you cannot do a hammerhead stall and a tail-slide in a Lightning!

The helicopter was scrambled in good time for the premeditated ejection and Simon was quickly back at the squadron. Someone said in disgust “Simon, how could you eject into the sea and barely get your hair wet!” But it isn’t very pleasant seeing one of your friends heading out to sea to abandon an otherwise serviceable aeroplane, and wondering if the canopy/seat/parachute and all the rest is going to work. Thank you 202 Sqn.

In spite of an intense effort by the Navy, we never found any wreckage and that area of sea off Withernsea silts up rapidly. A few weeks later the RAF lost a Phantom in more worrying circumstances and the Navy effort was diverted to that.

Three years later in 1979, a Lightning F3 was abandoned near Valley (on a Missile Practice Camp) for an identical reason. I have seen the pictures taken of this aircraft from the gun camera of a chase aircraft and the trail angle of the broken undercarriage looks exactly the same. I believe the cause of that was found to be a fatigue failure of the lugs.

Later, when I was back at Binbrook again (1981-83), we had a modification issued for the main undercarriage that involved milling off the area near the main leg lugs to remove fatigue damage, and that mod may have been the fix for the cause of the 1979 accident. This caused a bit of consternation amongst the aircrew, who were curious how shaving metal off could possibly make it stronger! The answer can be seen if you take a strip of paper and cut a small notch in the side. Pull on the strip and the paper will tear with quite a small pull. But cut off a bit of the length of the whole strip, including the notched bit, and a good percentage of the total strength of the original strip will be restored. That’s why older aircraft with such mods in their airframes have “g” restrictions towards the end of their working life. 5g may not be 6g but it’s better than nothing.

Last, XS 937 had an incident the afternoon before it was lost when it had a double tyre burst and trundled off the side of the runway at low speed. The ground was like concrete (remember the hot summer of 1976?). Much was made of that at the time by Rumour Control but the view was that this had had no effect on the serviceability of the undercarriage. This was subsequently confirmed to me informally by the chief stressman at Warton, with whom I worked on a Tornado issue. Someone mentioned retraction tests in a previous post, but all they showed you was that the sequencing was correct of jacks, links, doors etc. You cannot in the hangar reproduce the air-loads on the wheels, nor the dynamic loads of, for example, selecting the gear down while rolling the aircraft. XS 937’s earlier satisfactory sortie on 30 July proved that it was serviceable and that the subsequent failure was something new. The 1979 loss proved what that was.

Hope that helps!

[TiffyFGR4]

Warmtoast, yes, I'm sure that's the DVD I was looking, thank you very much indeed, you've added that bit more of happiness to my life! Thank you-Thank you!!! :ok:

What a nice way to start a lunch break, quiet morning in the guitar shop, AC/DC playing in the background, nice lovely coffee & cheese savoury sandwich, a lovely chat with my girl before and someone finding the EE Lightning DVD for me to top it off.....Sweet & lovely-jubbly. :O

And of course, thanks to everyone else for posting some very interesting information about the Lightning, very interesting read indeed. :ok:

[GeeRam]

Tim, Blackie (Ian) fies for Virgin

And is also in the fortunate position to be still getting occasional stick time on Thunder City's Lightning fleet....:ok:

[uffington sb]

Tim,

My father has recently been in touch with the legendary 'Bugs' Bendall from 111Sqn at RAF Wattisham when the Lightning was first introduced.
My dad was the Corporal I/C the paint shop way back in the 60's when I was just a lit'lun, and Bugs came to the paint shop after flying and they both designed the lightning flash on the front of the Sqn a/c.
As the former display pilot, I'm sure he has many a tale to be told, I think all at Wattisham can remember when he went supersonic over the airfield and the windows in ATC fell out. Strangely enough, I later served there as an Air Traffic Controller in 1989.
If you haven't already got in touch with him and would like to, please drop me a pm.

Cheers

[effortless]

I'd love to read stories about furriners. I remember watching Saudis at Colt doing conversion. I think that there was a couple of Yanks as well. We could usually tell if it was a Saudi as they all seemed to use full reheat to get off the ground while the chaps all seemed a bit more relaxed. I talked to a Spam who flew the Lightning and he said that it was the hairiest ride he had ever had. "The most ediculousely over-powered aircraft ever built" is how he put it.

[scroggs]

Tim, did you receive an e-mail from AVM PS Collins (Rtd)? He's got plenty of stuff you could use. He's standing next to me as I type, ready to discuss this with you when you're available.

[XV277]

Tried an approach on Ark in a MK6 one day - frightened myself @@@@less:)

There are some photos of someone trying that on the net somewhere - got the link at home, I'll dig it out later.

[tornadoken]

EGGP: was the Lightning doomed by the Sandys white paper. No. Au contraire, Saviour Sandys saved it.
As Minister of Supply he had funded P1B prototypes in 1953, 20 Development Batch in 1954. Arriving at MoD in January,1957 tasked to make Defence both effective, as Suez had shown it was not, and affordable, which with impossible kitedreams in R&D it was not, he inherited an order for 50 (to be) Lightning F.1, which RAE/RAF saw as the last: J.Amery,SecState for Air was briefed 10/60 (by RAF) “we needed a Fighter Command to police the skies against intruders (not) much more(. Emphasis) on the defensive side (was with scrambling and dispersal)” The Move to the Sandys White Paper,M.D.Kandiah/G.Staerck(Eds),ICBH/KCL Seminar 7/88 pub.2002,Pp44/5. At MoD, then at MoA he funded 47 F.1/1A, 44 F.2, 20 T.4, and 70 F.3 (actual deliveries differed).

[bast0n]

For Tim who started all this.

My memories of the Lightning and those that flew them are pretty peripheral being a Navy Jungly pilot of great age. However I do remember that those that flew them seemed to be much closer in attitude to the FAA pilots than to their fellow Crabs!! I have a story of night flying at Valley being curtailed owing to a combination of 846 NACS and 11 Squadron having a birthday party in the mess to the accompaniment of Mk 8 thunderflashes, lighter fuel and a borrowed piano. I enclose a photo of the trophy,(made from burnt bits of the piano and a £5 note), presented to them in Malta when they had had their leave stopped for mocking the landings of the Air Malta 707. All Lightning history I suppose..........? Let me know and I will send you more.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/RAFValley1976Piano.jpg

I wonder if the trophy still exists? The piano certainly doesn't!!!!:=:=

[Tim McLelland]

Thanks for all the feedback guys - been away for a while so I have some catching-up to do here! I'll read-through the posts and PM everyone as appropriate. Good stuff and thanks - keep 'em coming!

[XV277]

Here's the link to that Ark photo

Asahi Pentax Spotmatic SP, 35mm SLR, results (http://www.licm.org.uk/livingImage/Pentax_Spotmatic-res2.htm)

[flash8]

Wasn't the lightning the kneecapper (during ejection)? Or was that apocryphal?

[bvcu]

Correct flash, before flying you had the length of your thigh measured to make sue you could keep your knees. Recall a USN guy on ETPS course in early eighties unable to fly in the T5 . It was the only british jet he really wanted to fly. At the end of the course he got special permission for one flight only , and guess what ....... main gear red on gear extension !!!!! Difficult decision , bang out and lose legs or risk leg collapsing ??? Luckily after a few fly bys the decision was made to land , turned out to be a sticky microswitch . Cant remember if it was before the T birds were all grounded due gear problems and then mods . Anyone remember what year that was ? Think we ferried ours to Binbrook with gear down for mods . Had a ride in XS422 in the last week before being grounded in 1987 . Now in the deep south being restored to fly again .

[Ancient Squipper]

There is one Lightning photo that I would like to see again it consisted of a very tasteful pic of a nubile young lady perched on the top steps of a 56 Squadron aircraft her only attire was a red and white chequered scarf !!
I belive it was taken about 1973/75. I was told that the photo shoot was instigated by the then ASF engineering officer. Anybody got a copy? For historical purposes only!!

I doubt if many groundcrew ever got much closer to a Lightning in reheat than the squipper sat at the end and side of the runway (Akrotiri and Wattisham in my case) in his Land Rover on brake parachute recovery duties. Normal landings no problem, aircraft taxies past releases chute ,quick squirt on the engine chute drops at squippers feet .
Take offs, touch and goes and especially late go rounds WOW Land Rover rattles and shakes, only protection for my ears was two fingers, no health and safety in those days.
As the brake chute was stowed under the aircraft it had a hard life the pack and auxillary chute often scuffing the runway on deployment .
On the odd occasion rigging lines could snap usually on a higher speed landing . This sounded like a rifle shot the broken line whipping up the chute and usally slicing up the canopy.
Twin steel (4 or 5 ton breaking strain depending on Mk of aircraft ) cables were attached to the rigging lines and clipped around the jet pipes and the end of the cable plugged into the base of the fin. Occasonally weakened clips allowed the cable to come free and become exposed to the reheat eflux . The heat burnt the cable which could cause them to snap on landing and then there was a couple of times on an aborted landing the pilot taking off again without releasing the chute so that all we got back in the section was charred cables and a melted nylon canopy.
Busy busy days
Great detachmets , one I remember was a 56 Squadron exchange with the Rictoffen Squadron at Witmund . It was the bosses last Lightning flight before promotion, He was leaving the detachment early and was flying the T bird back to Wattisham . The Germans must have got wind that something was up and several had positioned themselves on the roof of a bungalow type building. The beat up was fast and so low over the building that some actually dived off the roof.
A few years later I got posted to RAF Valley. One day when the Staish came into the section to pick up his AEA (flying clothing) I mentioned to him what a great beat up he had done at Witmund. Big Mistake!! as the CO of the RAF's No 1 fast jet flying training unit he made it more than clear that I had better keep it to myself.
Nearly 30 years later hopefully I am safe now.

Anybody found that photo yet?

[PICKS135]

Ancient Squipper also forgot to mention when the chute wouldnt release, and we had to wind the cable and chute round the tailplane. In the days before H&S that was a very noisy place to be.
Many an hour spent at the end of the runway waiting on chutes to drop

[Ancient Squipper]

PICKS135 Never saw or did that. Wasnt there a release button or handle on the fin ?

[PICKS135]

Never briefed on that. Leuchars had given up on Lightnings when I arrived in 1976.

Just followed the instructions of the guy with the stick sitting up front.

[seac]

If memory serves, there was a Leafy type JP , not long out of LTF, who was a rather tall young gentleman . Departed the a/c somewhere over the Humber estuary in the early 80's . I believe that was the end of his FJ career. Names are dim and distant , and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

With regard to the brake chute, and wrapping around the TP , it was quite common during my time on top of that hill in Lincolnshire, usually in crosswind landings.

[Hammer Head Too]

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m324/hammerheadtoo/Vulacn%2010%20July%2008/Lightning%20stuff/oops1.jpg

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m324/hammerheadtoo/Vulacn%2010%20July%2008/Lightning%20stuff/oops2.jpg

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m324/hammerheadtoo/Vulacn%2010%20July%2008/Lightning%20stuff/oops3.jpg

Met some very nice people after this one !! Jengo, Sengo, OC 11, Harry Staish !!!! (all in pretty short order)

When my hat was back on and I was walking back to 11 a certain Mr Spencer picked me up in his mini and promoted me to Sqn towing examiner ! Funny old world.

If it had missiles fitted I would have been a bit dead....

HH2

[Hammer Head Too]

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m324/hammerheadtoo/Vulacn%2010%20July%2008/Lightning%20stuff/scottdodd.jpg

Scotty in full song ...... legend flem

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m324/hammerheadtoo/Vulacn%2010%20July%2008/Lightning%20stuff/jacket.jpg

The famous (infamous!) lem sqn jacket.....

Either you will understand these photos or you wont

(apologies, they're a bit too big I know!!)

HH2

[phil9560]

I remember back in my Air Cadet days visiting 10 AEF at RAF Woodvale for a ride in a Chipmunk.It would've 1984 I think.Anyway there were a pair of Lightnings in the area and they gave the cadets an impromptu 'display'.It was the most incredible 5 minutes flying I've ever witnessed-none of those air show regulations to stop them ! Awesome aircraft.

[Zoom]

The earlier mention of Leafy (5 Sqn's stylized emblem) reminds me of a 5 Sqn Missile Practice Camp at Valley in 1969 when I was a stude at the FTS. There had been a particularly good bender one evening in the Shamrock Bar as was, with us studes in awe of these 'real pilots' and enjoying their heavy merry-making. When I woke up the following morning and looked out of my OM bedroom window at the opposite wall, I was stunned to see a massive Leafy painted on the wall and covering all 3 storeys -I think it was pink on green. It was absolutely fantastic and had been done very quickly. As it happens, the exterior of the Mess was about to be decorated and there was scaffolding about but not in position. The 'artists' had employed this without creating any noise. Photos were taken and Leafy was painted out, although he was still faintly visible a couple of years later. I have forgotten what the fallout was for the blokes involved but at least one of them made 3 star.

[Jetex Jim]

The book, Cold War Hot Science, although not exclusivly about aviation is extremly interesting. The section, on the Lightning provides an insight into its origins (in wartime German swept wing research), and a look at how the aircraft industry of the time was seen --Beaverbrook described it as "a hotbed of cold feet "

Cold War, Hot Science: Applied ... - Google Book Search (http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&id=HMx_6FtHBcUC&dq=cold+war+hot+science&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=_jNejPG7gd&sig=UJNxQZSq9OAmud0Nz3SOQj85k5A&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA38,M2)

Also some rarely seen Crown copyright drawings that might be worth reproducing, see page 38, for example.

[neilf92]

January 1968 RAF Geilenkirchen - I was on the line , sat in the cockpit of one a 92 Sqdn. F2 completing a morning B/F. Two of our F2’s lined up away to the left - due to depart for Gutersloh for QRA duties . A familiar roar announced the roll of the first a/c - seconds later an odd drop in noise level made me glance left . There was one of our kites just lifting off but without the usual bellowing reheat accompaniment.
It sank and a bright , thick trail of sparks shot back from the tip of the ventral fin . The fin quickly eroded away , the sparks trail got thicker till eventually a plume of flame burst out of the ruptured ventral tank . Trailing a tail high banner of flame the jet slid on for what seemed an age before gradually nosing down and juddering to a halt .
As it did so the new Boss , one WCdr. Robinson of U2 fame , opened up the second a/c and launched past the crashed jet - before ATC could close the airfield - he figured it was vital to maintain the QRA at Gutersloh and had to go.
A minor incident ( I’m sure the pilot didn’t view it that way) and one that ended happily .
Unfortunately the name of this pilot escapes me.
We left Geilenkirchen shortly after - with one abiding memory of people diving left and right off the top of the single story line hut as one of the Red Arrows Gnats levelled out of the bomb burst and headed straight over them.
Gutersloh next , one of our pilots Jerry Bowler recalled a QRA encounter he had with a Mig 21 .
For some unusual reason this jet followed the exact line of the border for a long way . Jerry was wary of his intent but curious to know what was going on in the guy’s mind as they flew along together . Eventually the “enemy” simply banked off and went home . Jerry asked me to paint the scene as a memento of his time with the squadron.
Sadly a year or so later Jerry lost his life flying with the Red Arrows. He was the typical fighter pilot - “fast jets , fast cars and beautiful women” - “ Sorry I bent your jet Chief” - to quote some of the flavour.
Recently I decided to recreate the scene Jerry described and the painting below is how I recall the event.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/NeilF92/Jerpost3.jpg

[Jetex Jim]

Recently I decided to recreate the scene Jerry described and the painting below is how I recall the event.

Very nice work sir. Well done.

[1.3VStall]

neilf92,

Were you aware that "S" was the very last blue-finned Lightning? Happy days!

[EyesFront]

January 1968 RAF Geilenkirchen - I was on the line , sat in the cockpit of one a 92 Sqdn. F2 completing a morning B/F. Two of our F2’s lined up away to the left - due to depart for Gutersloh for QRA duties . A familiar roar announced the roll of the first a/c - seconds later an odd drop in noise level made me glance left . There was one of our kites just lifting off but without the usual bellowing reheat accompaniment.


It must have been about then that I visited Geilenkirchen as an ATC cadet. I clearly remember looking around 3 Sqdn's Canberras and 92 Sqn's Lightnings - and what was probably my first experience of getting thoroughly plastered in a local hostelry. I particularly remember the gutted Lightning jacked up in a hangar, waiting to be repaired after going through/under the safeland barrier - we were told that the braking parachute had failed to deploy and the that runway wasn't long enough to stop on without one. The Lightning's still my all-time favourite aircraft, even though I never got to fly one.

Edited to say that's a fantastic painting!!

[neilf92]

quote
"Were you aware that "S" was the very last blue-finned Lightning? Happy days!"

Yes - according to Stewart Scott's excellent ref work " Birth of a Legend - "Sierra" was in fact the only F2 to serve all it's days as such without modification to the ungainly F2A version - and it served all it's time on 92 Sqdn. I believe.
Thats why I chose "S" for the painting , not being aware of the actual a/c code involved.

[newt]

Yes she was the last Mk2 with a blue fin and she had my name on her side!

And somewhere I have the pictures of her as they stripped the paint away!

At least her sticktop is still on my desk!

She will always be remembered!!

[GeeRam]

But not the last 'active' Lightning with a blue fin........

This was T.5 XS458 being given some fast exercise along Cranfield's runway only last month sporting her 'tribute' half n half 111/92 scheme (although obviously 92 only had T.4's not 5's)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/darrenharbar/Lightning/_J7X2628.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/darrenharbar/Lightning/_J7X2654.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v698/darrenharbar/Lightning/_IRF3565.jpg

[1.3VStall]

Ah, how that brings back memories!

The real 92 Sqn "T" was, indeed, a TMk4 and she was XM995. Yes, I know I'm an anorak!

[Tim McLelland]

She's certainly still looking very smart, though I really can't understand why anyone would want to apply a T4 paint scheme to a T5 - it's not as if there ain't enough attractive paint schemes to choose from!