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Baby New Year
2nd Oct 2008, 02:09
I know it's just a wee plane, but I'm a baby pilot that just got a job flying one and looking for a PoH.

If there's an electronic version someone could send me, even better.

chickenstrips
2nd Oct 2008, 09:39
Hi.

I have one for a U206 - non-turbo!

PM me your e-mail and I can forward, see if it's of any use!

Cheers!

411A
2nd Oct 2008, 10:16
Essco Aircraft Manuals and Pilot Supplies. We are the Aircraft Manual People. (http://www.esscoaircraft.com)

superskybolt
7th May 2009, 22:23
Hi,

Please, can you send me, to my mail, a electronic version of your C206 POH.

My email: [email protected]

Many thanks

Sergio
Brazil

redskyventures
29th Sep 2009, 03:52
Its a really old thread, but worth a shot, does anyone still have an electronic (pdf?) version of a C206 POH?

john_tullamarine
29th Sep 2009, 05:09
Two points I would raise for consideration -

(a) there are copyright issues involved in providing/accepting/using a copy of a copyright document

(b) regardless of where/how you might source one, please do be sure that you have the correct one, ie S/N and configuration applicability.

On another tack, the airframe OEM's POH usually will have naught to show for other OEM STCs and you will need to source any relevant information relating to STCs from the STC holder.

redskyventures
27th Nov 2009, 08:08
Dear John,
you are absolutely right to caution use of the POH. Many people think they can use a copy for flying - or worse put it in their aircraft, because the original has gone missing.
Just to clarify, - I am actually looking for one for reference for the books I write on light aircraft (We have published the C152, C182, C172, and C210 with some great feedback from pilots and reviewers, I now have some minor points for the C206 to finish, including sample graphs). I left my copies in Namibia, and will not be there for the next year or so, the field I now fly out of does not have any C206s. Ideally I am looking for a C206G and a C206H.
In the manuals we note very clearly the issues about POHs and the fact that when flying the POH on board is legally required, and must match the serial number and contain ALL the STCs and equipment mods. (see a copy of this page at http://www.redskyventures.org/doc/cessna-poh/POH_information_and_explanation.pdf)
However, about the copyright - the POH is not a copyright document :D. I have a flight school and I was also concerned about copying these for the students from the ones in the aircraft (rather than buying a copy online). And it was subsequently pointed out to me that there is no copyright on a POH - well not in any I have checked after hearing this anyway. We now always issue a 'SAMPLE' copy (not for operational use) of the POH and a copy of our training guides (if we have one for the aircraft concerned) to the students, and I have also started uploading these to our website. You can get pdf copies at the site above, not all are great versions, but hope to upgrade as I manage to get better ones. At present no C206s or C210 full versions!!! Despite a comprehensive search...
(Maintenance Manuals do have a copyright, unfortunately :(, but not many pilots are that interested in the in-depth parts in those).
On that note, again - anyone have a copy of a C206 POH, preferrably the G and H? An RSTOL STC POH Supplement (like the one there for the C210) would also be much appreciated!

john_tullamarine
27th Nov 2009, 10:30
the POH is not a copyright document

Now, I'm not a legal eagle so my comments should only be viewed as those of a lay person in that arena.

Having said that, I am not too sure that your statement is correct. A lot of work goes into the POH/AFM (the latter being a regulator-approved subset of the former) and I would be VERY surprised if the typical OEM did not view its manuals with a significant degree of proprietary interest.

For instance, I just pulled out a Beech POH and there, on the front page, the OEM asserts copyright.

Perhaps you are confusing the OEM's POH with FAA data ? My understanding is that the latter's publications (eg FARs etc) are public domain and anyone and just about everyone copies and sells them to the public ..

Perhaps you might cite the basis for your belief ? If I'm wrong, that's fine .. I shall go quietly and revise my knowledge bank ..

I note again non-OEM STCs generally won't be in the POH unless the owner does some footwork. Obviously the FMS should be incorporated as part of the STC mod but that only covers the then current revision - the owner has to keep it up to date - the aircraft OEM will have little, and generally nil, interest.

It is my understanding that one is permitted to copy part of a document for purposes such as research (at least in Australia that is the case). I suspect that copying the complete document might expose one to legal censure should the OEM decide to be a tad nasty.

redskyventures
28th Nov 2009, 11:40
Hi - you've surprised me on the Beech - I've got a scanned version of one or two POHs from Beechcraft with no copyright indicated, but perhaps the person scanning purposely ommitted this.
My basis was that I also used to assert that the POH was a copyright document until my co-author advised me that it wasn't. Thereafter I looked for a reference to copyright in the POHs, or let me rather call them AFMs, onboard some of the aircraft my clients operated, and failed to find anything.
I'll take another look at the C172s at the field next week, and I will also take it all back if I'm wrong, but I won't take down the collection:
- first as I found them on the net mostly, second I find them immensly helpful training aids, and lastly as I'd rather be sued by Cessna for the publicity (:suspect:).
Cessna makes money out of selling aircraft not writing books - (or hopefully not from sueing small flight school owners)?
But as with you I will also go quietly if I'm wrong, and we'll definitely stop selling them to the students - but we won't stop the students borrowing a copy to make their own....
The Cessna maintenance manuals have a clear copyright on the first page, no doubt about it.
Jog my memory on OEM - ? It's in there somewhere but can't seem to remember.
The docs I am referring to are not the FAA data sheets, its the nice book that's in the aircraft that has all those nice sections, which after 1976 are normally labelled and in order from 1-10 - but I wish someone would get some standardisation on terms. I'll think I'll call them MOM (the PIM) and AFM (the POH) - one being a generic and one being the approved version required to be onboard, hows that?

john_tullamarine
28th Nov 2009, 12:01
you've surprised me on the Beech

For info, the particular manual to which I referred is the B300 (Super King Air 350) and the copyright assertion is on the title page. If I remember tomorrow I'll have a look at a few others at the office .. however, I will be surprised if they are not all the same. In your case, I would approach the OEM and see if they might permit your use as described ?

until my co-author advised me that it wasn't.

The matter of interest is upon what did he/she base the assertion ?

Some OEMs, of course, may well not assert copyright.

POHs, or let me rather call them AFMs

Generally the AFM (ie the Regulatory approved part) is a subset of the POH (which includes a bunch of non-approved stuff from the OEM). Usually, the AFM bits are identified by a footer approval citation or similar... as many ways as the grains of sand on the local beach ...

Jog my memory on OEM

Not quite sure what the question is ? perhaps the acronym ? - original equipment manufacturer

Brian Abraham
28th Nov 2009, 14:04
The Beech and Cessna manuals (POH) I have clearly say "Copyright", whereas the Chieftain does not. Nor the GA8 manual which is down loadable from the factory site make mention, which makes sense.

redskyventures
29th Nov 2009, 12:58
Here's to Piper and Grumman. Brian, it sure does make sense.

John, It's a great idea of yours to approach them, much better than my plan, I'll try. I am quite sure there's a page missing in the Beech manual I have (- scanned version).

With my colleagues advice:

Thereafter I looked for a reference to copyright in the ........and failed to find anything.

It wasn't too important what he based it on, the more important thing was that before using the information, I confirmed the statement by reviewing the manuals on hand. To many people just take someone's word for something. Regardless if he is a respected colleague, this I would never do. These were all older versions of Cessna manuals, unfortunately none of which I have access to anymore. I do have a C172S, and was sad to see, yes there is a copyright...

The 'POH' version, onboard the aircraft, IMHO is the AFM, because it's onboard, associated with the aircraft and normally approved by the local CAA in its entirety. Scanning through the one I have here for a C172S the only sections with FAA approved on the bottom is the limitations and supplements?

I do know CASA is very organised on these things, so I would really love to have some clarity with references on the AFM issue. ICAO calls the manuals POHs, describes the format etc (ex GAMA), most legal texts refer to it as Approved Aircraft (Airplane) Flight Manual. To avoid the concepts of the older versions - Owners Manuals, FCOMs, PIMs etc, isn't it better to refer to AFM and MOM to distinguish between an approved manual on board and a generic manual used in training? The latter being the one conscientious pilots are often looking for to do some background study in preparation for transition or type rating training.

Yes it was the E that I was trying to work out, Thanks!