QF Seniority Question

[lc_461]

Gday,

I was just wondering if any QF Pilots could give an insight into how command works at QF... ie Switching a/c types, SO - FO. Do you stay on the long haul fleet or do you go to domestic?

If you go to domestic, do you become a Capt for domestic, or do you go back to L/H to be a captain.

Sorry if I have confused... any replies would be appreciated.

:ok: lc_461

[HPSOV]

Everyone joins as an S/O, from there what you do is entirely up to you, with the restriction that you must be a 2 engine F/O before being a 4 engine F/O, and you must be a 2 engine Captain before being a 4 engine Captain.
Every other scenario of movement is allowed, provided you have the seniority to make the move, and provided the move is 'up' the foodchain (which essentially means you must move to either a bigger aeroplane in the same rank, or up in rank).

[TruBlu351]

What's Quantas?

Can't see that happening.

[Cunning_Stunt]

Your mate is wrong. Perth basing for 737 ranks is being processed in the usual way. By seniority.

[carbon]

So essentially a 744 S/O must make the transition to the A330, 738, or 767 for an upgrade to F/O?

Would seem a counter productive exercise in some respects.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

A380. How are things in Emarites?

The Perth base is being staffed with some Very Junior people. Your mate has been told by somebody, and I can assure you it was not Qantas, (maybe somebody in Qantas) that getting a Perth base is possible within a very short period of time. There is one guy who has been in QF for 7 months, and received a slot in Perth. However, you still join QF as a second officer. Tell your mate not to get his hopes up.

[KTM525]

A380-800 might not be far off the mark. Apparently quite a few drivers withdrew from their s/h slot when given the opportunity during the eba negotiations. The remaining people with bids in don't have the required company experience(whatever that means!!!!) so the company is being left a fair number short of drivers for the Perth base which opens in a few months. Don't know if there will be D/E pilots for the base....i think they bought AN guys in on the 73 after the collapse, but they went back to S/O after everything caught up........mind you this is a rumour network and my sources aren't as reliable as the TN refueller!:}

[Mstr Caution]

Apparently quite a few drivers withdrew from their s/h slot when given the opportunity during the eba negotiations. The remaining people with bids in don't have the required company experience.


If the required numbers are not achieved, the slots would be assigned in reverse seniority order to those which do hold the required company experience.

[Tempo]

As mentioned above assigned in reverse seniority....

[HPSOV]

So essentially a 744 S/O must make the transition to the A330, 738, or 767 for an upgrade to F/O?

Would seem a counter productive exercise in some respects.

Correct, this policy must cost the company a lot of money in additional cross training (which they are trying to negate by imposing a limit on the number of moves you can make in a career, fortunately it got voted down by the members).
The companies argument is that 744 (and I guess now 380) drivers can do as few as 25 landings a year, and this would be insufficient to allow proper consolidation and development following promotional training. For someone who jonied the company with minimal experience, and then spent 5+ years and an S/O sitting in the jumpseat eating warm nuts and Patons chocolate macadamias then this is probably a fair call. For someone with previous jet time... ex-Ansett etc... it would seem a little silly.

[HPSOV]

HPSOV, Is it true that Quantas is taking direct entry FOs to man their Perth base?

As others have stated this is presently not true. However should the situation arise that there are insufficient current pilots to fill vacancies then I'm sure the company would look at all available options, which would include new hires with suitable experience being sent straight to Perth as 737 f/o's. I cant see there being any problems with this, as they would have a seniority number on joining just like everyone else, and that seniority would then allow them to get a 73 slot in Perth immediately.

[Mstr Caution]

I dont think the situation is that dire (within QF) that there will be any direct entry FO's onto the 737.

QF were prepared to assign the base in reverse order in the last round of promotions.

It took the collopse of a domestic competitor for it to happen last time......

[mustafagander]

A380 thingo,

Did it ever occur to you that on ultra long haul ops there simply are too few landings to keep the Capt and F/O current, let alone S/Os?

A sad fact of life. :{

[neville_nobody]

So you're suggesting that we have two captains and two FOs then like the yanks the captains only do about 12 landings a year??!!

Alternatively we could abolish flight and duty so we have no limits for two crew ops, there's another solution

I think the SO positions is the best of a bad choice.

[kellykelpie]

I have to agree with A380 thingo that the SO positions are a disgrace. All people want is to 'grow' their career. We all want 'learning and development' and career progression (well, the ones that haven't given up anyway).

Many of my friends have resigned from QF in the last 18 months to take jobs with JQ on the bottom of the seniority list (having been in QF several years).

Yes, Qantas certainly is the poverty of expectations for anyone with a bit of experience.

[Mstr Caution]

KellyKelpie,

If your friends have been with Qantas for "several years".
Why would they resign to go to Jetstar for an F/O slot, they could have have one in mainline. As posted above, F/O slots went to crew who had only been in the company for 7 months.

[lc_461]

A380 thingo,

Did it ever occur to you that on ultra long haul ops there simply are too few landings to keep the Capt and F/O current, let alone S/Os?

A sad fact of life. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

Really, is 12 landings a year all a 744 Captain / FO get to do? Seriously?

[kellykelpie]

Master Caution - you assume they took FOs slots. Why is that?

[Mstr Caution]

Because you hadn't stated otherwise.....
MC.

[kellykelpie]

Well let me clarify. Their experience was recognised and valued - they joined as Captains.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Gday Kelly. Just out of curiosity. Did your mates join Jetstar under the MOU? If they left QF to join Jetstar (from the street), they would just join the list behind everyone else in Jetstar, right? Like, in their seniorty system.

[blow.n.gasket]

Ah, the "blue shirt brigade" out to save the rest of the world from themselves.
Such nobility.:ok:

[kellykelpie]

Hi Fat guy. QF wouldn't allow anyone to take an MOU slot, so they resigned.

BnG - what's your point about the blue shirt brigade?

[Lookleft]

There is an irrational hatred of all things Ansett in J*, usually by people who hanker for the good ol' days of sims at Longbeach when no one was failed. It is also an attitude that some like BnG have for reasons best known to themselves, even though they do not fly for J* but feel that they are owed a LHS with them.

[Its the Pleats]

If you join JQ with jet time, you can be assigned a command the day you join. Ie lots of effos not meeting the new command requirements therefore, down the list they go until they find somebody who does. If that happens to be the last bloke or blokette on the list then so be it. Second most junior person at JQ is a captain and QF guys coming across on the MOU stopped a while ago. No issue here, just letting you all know...

BTW requirements basically are 2000hrs on type and 3 years at the company.