View Full Version : AOPA release IMC survey
Fuji Abound
26th Sep 2008, 21:32
AOPA are now running their IMC survey which is well worth a look (not yet done so myself).
AOPA: Home Page (http://www.aopa.co.uk)
and the link to the survey:
Great IMC Survey (http://www.myqiq.info/survey/index.php?survey_code=e310a292&login=1)
S-Works
26th Sep 2008, 21:59
Yes unfortunately the link was published before I approved the content so we are 'suffering a couple of technical difficulties' as we say in the trade.
I can only apologise for the technical error. The full survey does in fact have more than one question!
eharding
26th Sep 2008, 22:15
http://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/rofl.gif
Best laugh I've had for ages Bose. Keep up the good work. :ok:
flybymike
26th Sep 2008, 23:55
I think the full version of the survey is in this month's AOPA mag.
S-Works
27th Sep 2008, 09:39
Best laugh I've had for ages Bose. Keep up the good work.
Indeed. If you answer no to the question you get the full survey. The problem seems to lie with the on line survey company that provide the backend. We are looking into the problem.
Edit: It now seems to be fixed.
Johnm
27th Sep 2008, 16:11
Very good and duly filled in
Ni Thomas
27th Sep 2008, 16:52
Tried three times to complete - It keeps dropping me off after various pages filled in. Rather frustrating. :hmm:
vanHorck
27th Sep 2008, 17:10
Did it without problems.
Tell Bose-X where it fails. Could be answer related
S-Works
28th Sep 2008, 11:01
Despite the teething problems with the survey company the IMC survey is now live and working and starting to get a good response.
For some strange reason we have had a couple of people take the survey more than once but we are filtering the duplicates so it should not skew the data.
I would encourage everyone to complete the survey and spread the word. The more data that we can gather, the stronger the argument we can put across to the regulators.
PompeyPaul
28th Sep 2008, 11:44
Careful how you filter the duplicates. If you are filtering on IP then you are are possibly filtering legit responses since more than 1 user can be behind an IP.
Not sure what they are charging for hosting and dev, if it were more than £500 I would undercut it :)
flybymike
28th Sep 2008, 13:03
There seem to be some subtle differences between the online survey and the magazine questionnaire. Is this in fact the case?
Fuji Abound
28th Sep 2008, 14:01
I would have asked for pilots to give their license number and name in an effort to establish the veracity of the respondents. I know from experience that there were a few people who signed the petition using false names - the usual suspects I suppose. Most surveys attempt to avoid this problem by preventing users with the same ISP completing the survey a second time, or asking the person for their email address so that an ISP and corresponding email is prevented from having a second go. None of these techniques are perfect, but given that a third party (iSalient) is presumably being paid to do the job I would expect them to consider this issue (as indeed they might well have done).
I have some other comments but as the survey is under way this is not the time.
Bose - how are you intending to ensure as many pilots as possible are aware of the survey? (Excluding those here, AOPA members and readers of one of the GA mags.) It is surprising how many pilots do not follow these sources of news. I might have included a question along the lines - How did you hear about this surey?
S-Works
28th Sep 2008, 14:19
There seem to be some subtle differences between the online survey and the magazine questionnaire. Is this in fact the case?
The magazine article is a flavour of the questionnaire to generate publicity. The survey is the survey and that is how the data will be collected and modelled.
We are asking the CAA to circulate the information, we will be running regular articles in the various magazines and forums.
We can't collect pilots licence numbers etc without going down the data protection route which then increases the complexity and costs. We can filter duplicates even on common IP. You will find that if you go back again your answers from the last session are already completed.
Cusco
28th Sep 2008, 16:36
I thought it was a good questionnaire and included references to other ICAO Instrument ratings which other questionnaires don't seem to.
I was also pleased to be able to leave a comment: tho' only son-of-bose can tell us if any attention will be paid to the comments.
Cusco.
Contacttower
28th Sep 2008, 17:54
Is this survey going to be fed into the consultation response to the latest NPA on Licensing from EASA?
Just a heads up: does not work without cookies
S-Works
28th Sep 2008, 18:55
Is this survey going to be fed into the consultation response to the latest NPA on Licensing from EASA?
It is going to be used for a number of purposes in the long term goal of saving the IMC rating.
Just a heads up: does not work without cookies
Indeed, it is part of the data verification process and ensuring we don't get duplicates.
It is important that we gather clean uncorrupted data that cant be questioned.
Hi there, not having a go or trying to put the effort down, quite the contrary, a bit of criticism FWIW.
it is part of the data verification process and ensuring we don't get duplicates
Trying to use only cookies for that purpose is a (very) poor technical decision, it does not work like that.
It is important that we gather clean uncorrupted data that cant be questioned.
I'm sure you're at least partially aware of the limitations of online surveys. For the full picture, and if you want a sample that can stand up to scrutiny, I strongly suggest you should seek a competent statician for advice.
HTH.
S-Works
29th Sep 2008, 18:56
LH2, we cant please all of the people all of the time. Thanks for your input though.
I am satisfied that the survey will gather the information we need to help strengthen our case for retention of the IMCR. Once the survey has run it's course the data is going to be modelled by a professional.
If people choose to 'cheat' then it is not only themselves they are cheating but also there fellow pilots. I do not have the time or resources to design out cheating in a survey that is meant to help us all.
Hi Bose,
LH2, we cant please all of the people all of the time. Thanks for your input though.
no probs.
If people choose to 'cheat' then it is not only themselves they are cheating but also there fellow pilots. I do not have the time or resources to design out cheating in a survey that is meant to help us all.
"Cheating" is not the only form of survey bias, nor the only one that you might or might not need to control for (which is not the same as "modelling out"). But then again, I'm thinking as a technical person, and at the end of the day all this would go in the small print at the bottom which no politician ever reads, and that's them who are going to look at your survey at the end of the day.
Best of luck with your efforts.
S-Works
29th Sep 2008, 21:13
"Cheating" is not the only form of survey bias, nor the only one that you might or might not need to control for (which is not the same as "modelling out"). But then again, I'm thinking as a technical person, and at the end of the day all this would go in the small print at the bottom which no politician ever reads, and that's them who are going to look at your survey at the end of the day.
Indeed. But as I said I don't have the time or resources (I no longer command a staff of 2000) so we had to make do the best with what we have.
I hope those participating understand the importance of doing this honestly.
Fuji Abound
29th Sep 2008, 23:00
(I no longer command a staff of 2000)
Not in consequence of the credit crunch, I hope.
I hope those participating understand the importance of doing this honestly.
Sadly about as much I suspect as some of those who signed the number 10 petition under pseudoynms that were intended to discredit the petition.
.. .. .. but never the less I support your hopes even if you did not support mine. :)
S-Works
30th Sep 2008, 07:18
Fuji. No nothing to do with the credit crunch, left awhile ago to pursue other interests.
As you know I never agreed with your petition and did not sign it(although someone saw fit to put my name to it). However I agree that those signing it under false and stupid names was reprehensible.
Zulu Alpha
30th Sep 2008, 07:39
I have filled in the survey, but it didn't ask for my name or pilots licence!
ZA
S-Works
30th Sep 2008, 07:42
I have filled in the survey, but it didn't ask for my name or pilots licence!
ZA
Thats because I don't want them. I am after stats not building a database. If we collect personal details we get into data protection territory.
Duly filled in.
But it doesn't seem to want to close the final page for some reason??
S-Works
6th Oct 2008, 17:18
Just a reminder for everyone to complete and publish as far and wide as possible the IMC survey. We have over 300 unique hits so far.
englishal
7th Oct 2008, 02:20
Done my bit....And just about to extend my IMCr by virtue of an FAA IPC for a further 2 years....
Good luck :ok:
S-Works
7th Oct 2008, 10:56
GEMMA, Not sure what you are trying to say. The questions are applicable if you have an IMC or not.
What we are trying to establish is what the IMC is used for, if people have access to an IMC capable aircraft. If they don't have an IMC and are planning on doing one then the answers are just as valid. If you don't have an IMC and are not planning on doing one then you can answer no to all the questions or not bother doing the survey.
The filtering of IP's is not the only part of the duplicate checks and even AOL gives individual IP addresses. Even those coming from corporate firewalls where a small number of IP addresses are used on the front end have unique NAT data as well as the cookies that are dropped. It is not perfect but it is designed to catch the accidental duplicates etc.
S-Works
7th Oct 2008, 11:36
Of course what you could have done is followed the link (above the one you followed) to the AOPA site and then followed the link to the survey which would then have explained what the purpose of the survey was?
26th September 2008
AOPA IMC Survey
New rules emanating from Europe could mean the end of the UK IMC Rating.We would like to hear from you on this subject.Kindly complete the online survey available at www.myqiq.info/survey/index.php?survey_code=e310a292&login=1 (http://www.myqiq.info/survey/index.php?survey_code=e310a292&login=1) This survey will only take a few minutes of your time but it will help us enormously
Not to mention the fact that if you missed the 40 pages of fighting and discussion on this very subject on this very forum you must have been blind.....
flybymike
7th Oct 2008, 12:04
Bose, I think you are being a bit harsh on Emma.
I have a lapsed IMC rating and did not feel that the questions adequately provided for this scenario, or whether I might want to get it back again, and if not why not etc. I did however clarify these reservations in the comments section.
S-Works
7th Oct 2008, 12:26
I was just passing on my experience of doing just that, arriving directly at the survey page and considering 'what if I did not understand what this is all about', stop being so defensive and accept what was meant as nothing more that a little critical help to get YOU the best response possible.
Unfortunately the survey is hosted externally and we do not have the capability of doing what you suggest. What you see is what we get.
Thank you for your input, but there is nothing more I can do, it was a long and hard enough road to get this far. I am satisfied that the questions we are asking will provide me with the data that we need. When I first put this together the questions were posted on the forums and we asked for feedback. That process is now over.