NATS Pensions (Split from Pay 2009 thread)

[PPRuNe Radar]

With terms and conditions comparable to others in the industry,

Don't worry Rab .. I am sure that as soon as you and your colleagues move in to the Prestwick Centre, the management will remove your 110% pay (due to 100% night shifts) to align you with your comparable colleagues from Scottish and Manchester who will inhabit the same Ops Room :ok:

That's Integration for you :)

[mr.777]

But there could be a comparsion to WWII in this and other pension threads. We've seen a lot of Keyboard Warriors.

Yes, but at least some of us had the balls to follow through and actually VOTE over the pension issue. Hell, some of us "keyboard warriors" are even members of the Union. I would suggest that a "keyboard warrior" would be somebody who likes to post drivel on here, try and persuade people to vote a certain way whilst not actually being a member of the Union itself and therefore ineligible to vote over said issue.

But thats just my opinion:E

[fisbangwollop]

At least those that make it into NPC will be the lucky ones.....there are folk around that have done over 30 years and will not get that chance!!!!!!!!

[rab-k]

PPRuNe Radar

I've no problem in dropping from 110% UHP to 100% provided I too can spin onto a MMAADD roster rather than the continuous MMAANN. Personally, I hate night shifts, and the thought of a full 4 days off as opposed to crawling out of bed sometime between 1 and 3pm on a sleep day, followed by 3 days, off suits me just fine. For that, they can keep their extra 10% in return for fewer days spent suffering that jet-lag feeling which comes with surfacing in the middle of the day post night shifts, thank you. :ok:

[45 before POL]

rab-k...i sympathise with the permanent nights issue, but don't think that cominig off them will be a bed of roses.. two examples of the pallet of shifts commonly used here is mmaaommooo or mmaaoddooo.... so 4 off? doesn't come round that often, management i'm sure will push this your way at some stage.:eek::eek:

[rumouroid]

If the Union have anything to do with it we will end up with the following roster MMMAAANNNO:}. They seem quite good at giving in to what management want and having their expectations managed during the working together process.

[anotherthing]

45 before Pol

I might add things up differently than you, but mmaaommooo or mmaaoddooo means you have 4 days off. Just because they are not consecutive doesn't mean they don't count.

I do permanent nights, and I actually take the attitude that I have 4 days off on a mmaannsooo cycle. The first night doesn't start until 2200 so although I can't go drinking, I class this as being as good as a day off.

The sleep day - I finish at 0700, get home by about 0745 and sleep 'til about 1100. Then I have the rest of the day to myself.

People are different and react to lack of sleep differently - I don't have any problems with feeling tired after a couple of hours kip, but saying that I'm only 39 - no doubt as I get older it will start to affect me more.

By stating the above about feeling I get 4 days off, I'm not some management lackey, but am someone who has previously worked outside of NATS doing real hours!!

[Me Me Me Me]

Keyboard Warrior: A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

I refer you to the PPRuNe Pension vote tallies... and then to the actual physical results. ;)

And Vlad... I also have to say, well said. It's important to take a pride in your job, in your profession and want to be well rewarded for it... but there is a definite population on here with a God Complex.
When the old lady on the bus says "ohhhh, so you're like a traffic warden, only you get to sit down!", watch the blood boil up!!! :}

[Gonzo]

Anotherthing, I agree with you (this is getting to be a habit!:eek:)

I used to do nights every cycle. That day after the two afternoons was fantastic. Also, if I got two hours kip at work, I could manage without any sleep when I got home, apart from maybe a mid-afternoon/early evening power nap of 20 mins.

But then I'm a few years younger than you! :p

[Dee Mac]

UK pensions end year in surplus - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/4015591/UK-pensions-end-year-in-surplus.html)

Maybe it won't happen to our fund, but you get the general idea how the economic situation can change. Hope no-one was taken in or influenced by the doom and gloom merchants.

[mr.777]

Keyboard Warrior: A Person who, being unable to express his anger through physical violence (owning to their physical weakness, lack of bravery and/or conviction in real life), instead manifests said emotions through the text-based medium of the internet, usually in the form of aggressive writing that the Keyboard Warrior would not (for reasons previously mentioned) be able to give form to in real life.

Whatever :ugh:

[kats-I]

I know this is old news but I have just ploughed my way through the last 20 pages of the pension vote thread. Just for something to read!! Why has no-one queried that the lack of votes was not due to "Can't be bothered!" but may have been due to that a lot of ballot papers were lost in the christmas post as PB expected them to be. :D

We all know that when management want things to go their way its a postal vote and when they aren't bothered its a bit of paper put in a black box somewhere in the ops room .:*
I have been with Nats for a lot of years and this is how they have always worked so if they force a ballot on a paydeal lets not let it be a postal vote. (Unless its an outstanding one...some hope eh?):ok:

[Roffa]

Interesting that the pension regulator is warning companies not to pay dividends to shareholders if they are concerned about being able to make pension contributions.

Story here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7935373.stm)

No doubt NATS will be paying a dividend whilst also complaining about pension contributions :hmm:

[Roffa]

Brown and henchman Darling out to screw your pension again (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/retirement/article.html?in_article_id=482756&in_page_id=6&ct=5) possibly.

[PeltonLevel]

Have any members of the NATS Section of CAAPS cheered themselves up by reading the latest NATS Section Pension Review (released at the end of July). Available to registered members at: https://www.caaps.co.uk/axiseinternet/pdfs/SB1737%20NATS%20Review09_final.pdf

[xinebessa]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a AAVA?

I've trawled through this thread but not been able to work it out and google is not my friend on this occasion :bored:

[Roffa]

Additional ATCO Voluntary Attendance.

Think overtime.

[xinebessa]

Thanks Roffa.

So people generally opt out of this? Am I not right in thinking there is good money to be had from it?

How does it work, is there just a list of what needs filling and you pop your name down? Are you limited to only working in your 2 certified sectors ?

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers

[Air.Farce.1]

£800 smackers a day, money for old rope :ok:

[Level bust]

I wouldn't mind £800 for an AAVA! Its only £550 for the airport that is ranked 5th in the country for passenger figures!

[Vortex Issues]

TC is £550 (non-pensionable), where does the £800 come from?

[Roffa]

If xinebessa worked in NATS the info would be easily obtainable, I'm just curious why they want to know.

[Avoiding_Action]

From looking at their posts they are a prospective TATC.

[Gonzo]

Does the £800 come from the so-called 'Golden AAVA' for iFacts? AAVA(550) +1 day's TOIL (330)......

[250 kts]

Yes it does. And anyone who is in the 40% tax bracket must be crazy to take the extra £330 rather than the day off instead.

[Level bust]

Band 1 is 350 not 550, I must have been dreaming!

[xinebessa]

@Roffa

I have been accepted as a trainee atco and am just awaiting the college start date so was just curious :)

£550-£800 a day overtime sounds awesome until you factor in the 40% tax bracket :*

However even after tax its nothing to turn your nose up at :)

Can you only carry out AAVA's in your own allocated airspace that you control in your usual day job?

Thanks all for the info

[ZOOKER]

xinebessa,
Yes.
Allegedly, all you have to do now is pass the CATC course and the validation exams and you're in! :ok:

[Vortex Issues]

Can you only carry out AAVA's in your own allocated airspace that you control in your usual day job?

You can only ever work on the sectors you are valid

[Roffa]

xinebessa, fair enough.

As has been mentioned though, you've got quite a lot more to worry about for the next little while before potentially getting your sticky mits on your first AAVA (if they're still around by the time you might validate, I think the agreement may well have expired by then).

Best of luck on the path you are about to embark on!