My first helicopter lesson.

[Lister Noble]

I had my trial helicopter lesson this morning with Sterling at Norwich in a Schweitzer 269.
Well, here goes, I said I would report on proceedings.
After reading an introduction to helicopters and a very good briefing including seeing the effects of the controls on the tail and main rotors, we did the checks and after fuelling got aboard.
The instructor is a friend but I asked her to treat me as any other beginner.
We flew out to Coltishall with me using the cyclic, which is the control a bit like a joystick that controls lateral movements and with the instructor managing the other controls. I did several 360 turns to left and right OK.
We then flew back to Norwich for me to practice hovering around 5 feet above ground. First using the yaw pedals, which are a bit like the rudder except the aircraft rotation is affected by the wind, and the engine torque, in varying amounts depending on the wind direction relative to the helicopter, The aim was for me to keep into wind and practice turns which I managed after some practice.
Next I used the collective, which moves the craft up and down and includes a self regulating throttle that sometime needs to be fine tuned by hand, I managed this OK but did not manually control the throttle. I also managed to land it with her help.
We lifted up and I then used the cyclic to maintain position relative to the ground, which also went OK
All these exercises were carried out with the instructor managing the two control inputs that I wasn’t using.
She then said it was going really well and that she was very happy for me to try all three control inputs at the hover, so we climbed to about 15 feet for a bit of safety room, and I took the cyclic, pedals and collective.
It is just as it has been described, like to try balancing an egg on a pole while rubbing your tummy.
Well I managed it, it may not have been pretty but I managed to control height and yaw OK,the cyclic is very, very sensitive but I reckoned I stayed within a 20/30 feet square and got better as time went by.
The control movement is very minute compared to fixed wing
And that takes some getting used to.

In all we had 45 minutes flight time including the run ups, of which about 20 mins was spent at the airport hovering, and the time was booked in my log as exercises 6 and 8

I was elated at the end of the lesson when she said I had done really well, I’m sure the fixed wing flying did help in spite of people saying it wouldn’t.
Also my many years of sailing when trying to keep a boat in a certain direction docking against a wind and tide from different angles, was I’m sure of some help.

I had been privately concerned that I might not like the visual aspect, seated up front ,exposed with no fuselage protruding but it didn’t matter as we were so busy!

I would like to try again but the cost of flying a helicopter compared to flying the L4 may prohibit doing the whole course.
Anyway I can recommend a trial lesson like this to everyone.
I had been up in helicopters as passenger several times over the years but this was so much more exciting, interesting and of course very demanding.
Wow I can’t believe I did it.

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled but so much happened in a short time!


Lister:D:)

[stiknruda]

Lister - well done!

I have it on very good authority that you really did incredibly well and surprised your instructor with the rate of progress that you made. I understand that you walked out to your car with a huge beaming smile!! She was as delighted as you were, if truth be told.

See you soon.


Stik

[The Flying Pram]

Well done from me as well! I have only had an opportunity to get some "hands on" once - in an R22 when I was at Wanaka in New Zealand. I tried just keeping it flying straight and level with just finger and thumb on the cyclic. I only managed about 30 seconds before the dreaded PIO set in!

Regards.

[Whirlygig]

Well done Lister! I suspect you're addicted already and you'll somehow find the funds! :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Solar]

Well done Lister

Sorry but your doomed as the addiction has taken grip.

I flirted with helicopters over the years of plank flying and after getting the floatplane bug salved at an airport that had a helicopter school I managed to get solo in an R22 on Saturday week now that the kids have left and are marginally less of a drain on resources.

Quite a nice feeling I have to say.

You'll be back.

[Pilot DAR]

Well Done,

I caught that bug as well, and did my training in a SW300CB. It was a very rewarding choice. An added bonus was that when I was offered a Hughes 500D to fly, it fit like a glove. I did my type endorsement with no difficulty, and had extra flight time left over for advanced training.

You will finish with the very valuable skill of precise throttle management, which other types are not as good for training. This may not seem important, but the added skill will make stuck pedal flying easier to master. I found that my ability to use the throttle with some precision made the stuck pedal work in the 500D easy, and I was able to fly right into a presentable landing, where the instructor was only really looking for an overshoot.

One piece of hard learned advice: depending upon how the throttle is set up, it may be extremely sensative during start to being opened too much, and overspeeding the engine. Going into the details here would be redundant, as you will be trained appropriately, just be alert to what you are trained, and take it seriously. I have thousands of hours following Lycomings with propellers around, but really did not realize how quickly that engine will accelerate without the rotor engaged, and no flywheel. Note that the tachometer cable seems to whip a little during start, and the result can be a jumpy tach pointer. Pay attention to your instructor when they explain this, during start, just because the pointer jumps around does not mean the engine is. Chasing it with the throttle will probably not make matters better - ask me how I know....

Engine overspeed (though not over the engine's red line, just the 1600RPM mark) results in a required inspection of a drive shaft. I know, because I spent a few hours helping to take the poor helicopter apart after I did it!

Other than that, have a blast! The 269/300 will soon feel like an extension of your hands and feet - you think, it will do!

Pilot DAR

[Chuck Ellsworth]

:D:D:D:D

Flying a helicopter makes fixed wing pale in comparison.

[Say again s l o w l y]

The Y axis for the S300 H/V diagram starts at 150ft, so I think you'll be alright at 15ft.

Now if it was an R22, that would be a different matter entirely!

Well done Lister! I love every second of flying a helicopter. Totally different to flying a light aircraft. The ability to hover and manoeuvre is just amazing.

The only downside is the vibration and lack of speed if you go cross country, but the ability to land anywhere (within reason of course) is just stunning.

I just wish I did more of it than I do.

[Say again s l o w l y]

With a new student trying out hovering for the first time, I'd want a wee bit of extra height available to me. The chances of a student smacking the tail is a lot higher than a total unforseen engine failure. A bit of risk compared to a lot of risk, but as I'm not a heli FI just a PPL (H) I'll let those mad so and so's to decide what they are happy with.

Anyway. Total thread creep. Hope you enjoy your heli flying Lister.

[Pilot DAR]

I'm falling in behind SoCal App on this one. A hovering auto from 15 feet in a 300 is going to be very messy. The 500 has noticably more rotor inertia than the 300, and hovering autos in the 500 from 12 feet (the POH high safe limit) were very challenging, with no room for getting it wrong. My mentor saying to me "just let it drop", and my saying back "just let it drop, and 3/4$M helicopter don't occur together in my same sentence". They did not when I started, they did when I finished, credit to my mentor! I really doubt that the 300 could have been flown the same way as we did in the 500. I think that's why the POH for the 300 suggests 7 feet as a maximum hovering height. If you can hover at 15 feet, you can hover more safely at 7 to 3 feet. If you can't hover at 15 feet safely, some more cruise flight and approaches to landing might be helpful.

During many phases of my training, we'd be flying within the HV curve, and in a number of cases, I could not see a reason for it. Other phases of flight would have us it a height, or position over the terrain where a safe engine out landing could not be made. I'd ask him, why are we flying (you teaching me to fly) in a way from which a safe landing could not be made, particularly when there is an alternative. His answer would always be "We just accept the risk". Not wanting to be rude, I accepted that answer, though did ask myself who "we" is? It's a very new, very expensive helicopter we could wreck. Is "we" my insructor and I? My instructor alone (he is PIC after all), but then it must be me if I'm solo, I'm now PIC, but doing what I'm told. Or is it the insurance company, to whom my very weak excuse could only be, "well, that's the way I was taught...would you please pay...".

I never did reconcile that question....

Paying would nearly have been worth it, for how much fun it was! Keep it up Lister, the best is yet to come!

But take all of the foregoing as coming from a 75hour 300/500 pilot, by no means expert!

Pilot DAR

[Whirlygig]

Hover height in a Schweizer is not that easy to judge for a beginner so Lister's "15 feet" might have been 7 feet or 25 feet, not forgetting that yer bum is about 4 feet higher than the skids!

There are several manoeuvres within the PPL(H) syllabus (towering take-off, quick stops) that put one in the avoid curve so the entire training is one of risk management. This training syllabus comes from the military with not much thought to its modern application. They are mostly exercises in co-ordination to improve handling skills. Any instructor should make it clear that there are scenarios which you should avoid which would necessitate using these manoeuvres and you shouldn't be doing them solo!!

Cheers

Whirls

[Lister Noble]

I'm sure you are right ,and my idea of height could be coloured by a lot going on at the time!
Anyway,the next time I see the instructor I will raise these points over a pint.

The instructor was obviously ready to take over at an instant when I was hovering,her hands were probably hovering too,and maybe the few extra feet would allow the few milliseconds she would need to regain control?

Please bear in mind I speak from absolutely no authority or knowledge as a helicopter pilot.

Lister:)

[Say again s l o w l y]

I think my main point is, that this is a congrats to Lister thread, not a complete destruction of each and every detail and decision made by his FI by people who weren't there nd have no idea if 15ft was actually 10+4 or whatever.

[Lister Noble]

Thanks SAS,your comments are spot on.
The chance of an engine failure were far outweighed by the chance that I might lose control!
Lister:)

[Bravo73]

So you will not be alright at 15 feet as per your quote.


Just to add a further caveat regarding the H/V curve: it is not always as black and white as it might first appear in the Flight Manual.

H/V certification is done under a number of conditions, the most important being MAUW and nil wind. If the actual helicopter is either a) lighter than MAUW or b) 'flying' into wind, then an engine failure from a 15ft hover may well be recoverable.

[Whirlybird]

Congratulations Lister, and welcome to the wonderful world of rotary flying. :ok:

As a helicopter instructor, I teach hovering a little higher than the ideal hovering height for the experienced pilot. It's usually around 7-10 feet, but since most students can't be anything like that precise on the collective (which controls height) in the beginning, we end up at 15 ft once in a while, though I do like to come down ASAP when that happens. But since the helicopter can possibly get out of control very quickly in the hover when flown by a novice, I'd prefer to have those few fractions of a second extra to grab it before hitting the ground...which is far, far more likely than engine failure.

I just re-read that and it makes teaching hovering sound extremely dangerous. It's not, because you get used to it. It's probably no more dangerous than teaching fixed-wing landings. But with safety in mind, I prefer to have those few extra feet, as do most of my fellow instructors, I think.

[Blues&twos]

...no more dangerous than teaching fixed-wing landings.

Have you been watching my landing attempts, Whirls???