Coping with low R/T readability?

[RotaryPilotUK]

How do you guys cope when the R/T readability is less than five?

I'm pretty much towards the end of my PPL(H) and in the process of building up the required solo hours. I've talked to Halfpenny Green, Cosford, Gloucester, and Shobdon. All have been loud and clear.

Yesterday I took a trip up to Shawbury zone and through their MATZ. I could hardly tell a word the guy was saying, partly because he was speaking quickly but mostly because the audio was distorted and not very clear. I even had to ask for my sqawk code three times to get all four digits when he said them slowly. He gave me some traffic info a couple of times and all I could make out was something something something left to right something something. I just felt I was going "say again" constantly, and I could tell he was getting a bit pi$$ed off with me.

I don't normally have a problem with my R/T and this just felt like a bit of a joke, and I was glad to get off the frequency. I'm fine when it's loud and clear but this pushed my work load too far and my flying suffered.

Is it just a question of experience and you get used to picking out the information in the noise and distortion? Or do you have some other techniques?

[NRDK]

You are not alone with this, but experience of RAF ATC has found their VHF to be poor for some reason. They have great UHF radio, not much use for the civie driver though. Don't feel shy to tell them that their readability is poor and ask them to repeat slowly and clearly. Have fun & good luck.

[kneedwondean]

I often find Military units have poor quality readability. Perhaps the worst is Lyneham, I can barely understand a word. My students really struggle, but I suspect that because I have a little more experience I can 'work' out what they are saying and give the correct response. Is it something to do with military radio sets?? Suspect they spend all their budget on specific military stuff and are left with ancient old crap to talk to the civies.

[RotaryPilotUK]

Good to know I'm not alone!

I did tell him I was a student pilot, but thinking back now I really should have said readability three something. At least that would have got the point across that I was having trouble because the audio quality was rubbish and not (just) because I was a student.

At least I now know to do my skills test at the weekend when Shawbury are closed! :ok:

[ivakontrol]

I often find MATZ controllers very hard to hear in comparison to civvy ones. No idea why. Crap old kit maybe?


Never had a problem with Shawbury particularly if controller is a female voice, perhaps its the 'pitch' of their tones.

As kneedwondean says experience will help you to fill in the gaps.:ok:

[RotaryPilotUK]

if controller is a female voice, perhaps its the 'pitch' of their tones.

A couple of times I've been into Gloucester it's been a woman on the approach frequency, and not only does she have an incredibly sexy voice but she is absolutely crystal clear and precise.

[500e]

The controller should be told his signal is poor,:( even filing a report if you feel it is that bad, the ground station may think all OK if not told, & the more people who bring this to their notice the more chance of something being done.
Guessing what is being said is not good.
We have mentioned this to a few MATZ controllers, Yeovilton always sounds good, & friendly

[JBL99]

Quite agree, Yeovilton have always been very clear. As for Lyneham, I reckon I could have heard more from two tin cans and a bit of string ! I let them know their readablity is c@*p and then almost blind tramsmit my intentions, keeping well clear of their zone of course !:rolleyes:

[Bladecrack]

I have never had any problems with Shawbury, but I have the same problems as described with Leuchars quite often, and sometimes feel like I shouldnt bother calling them except when I really have to. :confused:

It sounds like they are talking into a tupperware box at times instead of a microphone. Do military ATC still use throat mics?

[SASless]

Ten thousand hours from now and you will be saying "Say again!" on a regular basis....in the cockpit and at the Micky D's drive thru window. Drives the Missus crazy for sure!

[johned0]

This issue came up at the HCGB safety day last week and the RAF attendee said that the VHF kit at most RAF bases dates back to the last war.

Having said the above I think it is worthwhile adding two comments :

1/ The RAF controllers round here (Cottesmore, Waddington etc) are very good and always a pleasure to work with but the quality of the kit they have to use must make their lives very difficult when they have to use it every day.

2/ Given the **** our forces have to put up with from TPTB I can understand why upgrading their VHF kit is not very high on their list of priorities.

J.

[Camp Freddie]

I find that if you turn the volume up so that it is far too loud that for some reason that makes it easier to understand.

also try leaning forward and squinting while you are listening, that can help :)

also if you have a passenger or an instructor next to you, elbow them in the ribs and say "what did he/she say" !

CF

[RotaryPilotUK]

Given the **** our forces have to put up with from TPTB I can understand why upgrading their VHF kit is not very high on their list of priorities.

I don't want this to turn into a forces slagging thread. It just so happens that the first time I really struggled was with a military frequency.

I find that if you turn the volume up so that it is far too loud that for some reason that makes it easier to understand.

I tend to have it turned up quite loud anyway, 'cos I'm always worried about missing something. I was actually wondering if I had it too loud, and that was adding to the problem. But maybe not.

also try leaning forward and squinting while you are listening, that can help

That's EXACTLY what I caught myself doing! :O

also if you have a passenger or an instructor next to you, elbow them in the ribs and say "what did he/she say"

That's usually what I end up doing, which may explain why I haven't had much trouble with R/T until I'm on my own!

[LH2]

I took a trip up to Shawbury zone and through their MATZ. I could hardly tell a word the guy was saying

YESSS!!!!! I'M NOT ALONE!!! :\ :\ :uhoh:

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Hi

If air traffic are hard to understand because of a poor signal you could turn off or adjust the intercom in the aircraft. I find this really helps and makes the radio more clear.

Some aircraft have an intercom switch (Some R22s) this can be turned on or off.

If you fly an aircraft that has a intercom volume knob or squelch knob both of these can be adjusted or turned off.

Get your instructor to show you how.

[SASless]

JohnedO,

This issue came up at the HCGB safety day last week and the RAF attendee said that the VHF kit at most RAF bases dates back to the last war.

Gulf War II or Afghanistan II?

[mattlow]

WWII..........

[MK10]

Leuchars, Lossiemouth and Kinloss are all bad up this way..........somedays better than others. Using "pilot isolate" certainly helps. I find the higher pitch of "most" female voices also helps.


my 2p

[RotaryPilotUK]

I do use the intercom squelch control to cut out the rubbish that the headset picks up. It means you miss the first syllable when someone starts to speak but you get used to that. Thinking back, I'm not sure if I had it set properly or not because I tend to forget about the intercom when solo, so that's definitely something to check next time.

[verticalhold]

A Lyneham ATCO did tell me a couple of years ago that it was down to the quality of their microphones which work great on UHF but sound muffled on VHF. Round here I find Lyneham the worst (transmission wise their service is great) and Brize about the best, but sometimes you get a controller change and the new guy sounds like someone is smothering him with a pillow.

VH

[T4 Risen]

With regard to " filling in the bits" when struggling to understand a radio transmission from a grounds station this could easily lead to miss understanding and obvious air safety issues. When finding it hard to understand a transmission the only way is to advise of poor signal strength and if you find theproblem continues fill in an Air safety Report.

T4

[topendtorque]

Before you go too far I suggest that you ask your local friendly radtec to check the impedence of your earphones.

Get him to explain the difference between some military headsets / radios and civvie combinations. USA works on a different impedence from OZ for example. Most OZ army machines seem to work on USA military standards.

I have seen so many OZ ex military jocks get into a civvie model, and plug in, and then the civvie is totally drowned out. makes me bloody mad it does.

Not only that, a wrong impedence or an nearly worn out microphone also often snuffs out the radio. This may be where your radio is now with your serious comprehension problems.

make sure you ask your boss ( flight instructor) to check it out because he is the one who continuously pays for the repair and he may not be aware of the imcompatibility problems.

Where did you buy your headset??

In the meantime, ban ex military types with their special (free) olive green bone domes from going anywhere near your prescious radios.

As far as old radios are concerned, if you want to get blown out of the ether, be careful when you get close to a well performing valve set.

[500e]

Ahhhh yes the valvey thing's, I remember they lit up and glowed blue if driven hard + lots of heat!! So WW11 kit should better then.:E .
Does any one fly with the squelch control open? this should be set to just close the noise gate on the Rx. extremely tiring to have the background Rf. noise all the time, I would have thought if one ground station is clear & you are being read by same, the fault is most likely to to be station not your radio or head set, the impedance will not change from station to station.
As for old kit I can believe that, reading about lack of helicopters, body armour, ECM Kit (see Page 14 sept 19th Independent A really sad report & if the reporting is correct a grave indictment of the MOD\ government ) + the government treatment of the Gurkha's.
Now really depressed :( perhaps the gripe\grape will make things better

[Agaricus bisporus]

It is not too many years ago that the RNAS Culdrose ATC operated on the comms kit "salvaged" from HMS Vanguard, Britain's last battleship, scrapped in 1956 or so...

[Heli-Jock]

as you are early in your career you may find this a wee bit dificult to understand. However as you fly more and more thru military zones you will quickly get used to their lingo and before long, with practice, you will understand all they are saying.
Its all about experience. Good luck.

[Skidkid]

It's nothing to do with experience, there is definitely a problem caused by the poor quality of many UK military VHF transmissions. I doubt whether it is the use of antiquated equipment since the problem did not exist when they used the old 'minicom' system. The start of the problems occurred when the 'minicom' system was replaced by more modern equipment.

Sometimes it can be bad and a definite flight safety problem. I remember a few years ago having to divert around a military zone because the transmissions were totally unintelligable, even with a female controller.

For a couple of years now I have made a point of telling the controller of the poor quality of their transmission and asking them to notify their supervisor. Maybe if we all did it every time we experience a problem, it might prompt them into sorting things out.

Submitting a safety report is a good idea and the CHIRP system is a very simple way of doing that. It can be done very simply online or by post.

[500e]

So experiance will fill in the unintelligible bits, Great!!:ugh: what about if you don't have this yet ? there also seems to be a competition by some controllers as to how fast they can talk (I know they are under pressure) but if they have to repeat it takes longer, & if you misunderstand their instruction either because of poor quality of Tx, speed of delivery & your inexperience and nervousness of asking controllers to repeat more than once, You could Die and take others with you
There appear to be as many if not more poor unreadable radios flying as on the ground.

[rotorcraig]

I agree. In my experience military RT can be more difficult to understand / lower quality broadcast than civilian RT.

Tell them you are a student pilot, they are not trying to make things difficult for you! But definitely tell them they are being received at "readability 3" or whatever.

Disagree that experience allows you to "fill in the gaps". Experience allows you to anticipate the flow of converation, and over time you will find yourself tuning into the key information that you need.

But if you don't hear the key information clearly, ask them to say again. When you do hear it clearly, repeat it back to them - you may still have misheard and they will correct you if necessary.

RC

[Simonta]

Anybody on here spend a lot of time in MATZ? Is the callsign prefix TYRO still used? CAP413 "invites" students to prefix with Tyro when talking to mil radios and it's supposed to be in wide use in mil training schools. I have used it a few times when I used to squirrel around Middle Wallop in and out of Thruxton and it always worked.

Whatever phraseology is used, it can never be a bad thing to let the controller know that you're relatively inexperienced. "G-ABCD Student Pilot Solo" on first call for example.

Happy skies...