Air India Fires two Pilots for feigning sickness

[condorbaaz]

Now, AI sacks 2 pilots for feigning sickness-India-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/AI_sacks_2_pilots_for_feigning_sickness/articleshow/3477984.cms)

The maharaja flexed his muscles yesterday. Says Too many CPL available . Better behave.

Maybe some accountability coming into the subcontinent after all.

[AMEandPPL]

Air India fires two pilots for feigning sickness

I should jolly well think so ! Anyone feigning illness is insulting those who are genuinely ill. Also insulting a hard-pressed medical profession.

Professional pilots should be above such things. Thankfully, it's still extremely uncommon in the UK. Many of my own friends and clients actually keep on working when sometimes I'd rather they didn't !

[Airbubba]

Air India (domestic) dismissed two of its junior pilots who reported sick after reportedly not getting flight schedules of their choice.

A lot of my colleagues brag about how they are going to call in sick for some trip because they are a commuter and it doesn't fit in with their plans. Of course, when they get a call from the company about it they squeal like stuck pigs. It's part of the business I suppose...

[Loose rivets]

Professional pilots should be above such things. Thankfully, it's still extremely uncommon in the UK.

Mmmm...Used to be the only way to get to see your kids, and get a change of underpants.:rolleyes:

[apaddyinuk]

I doubt it is as uncommon as one may believe in the UK!
Some airlines may have more flexible rostering facilities that allow people to arrange their lives around work whereas others may not. I can assure you that the majority probably do not have such flexible expensive systems and I am sure you would notice a significant difference in sickness levels. Having said that there is no excuse for pulling a sicky at a whim!
I commute and in the rare chance I cannot make it to work in time (only happened once in the last 3 years and it was for a classroom day) the duty manager on the day was actually impressed I didnt BS and pull a sicky! Pissed me off though, lost my next two nice trips while they rerostered me the course! :ugh:

[kriskross]

I remember about 4 to 5 years ago, a friend told me a tale of woe. He was French, and had been asked to give his sister away at her wedding, in France, the date of which he passed on to rostering about 1 year before.

He reminded rostering each month for the 3 months leading up to the month of the event.

When his roster came out... yes you've guessed it , he was working a full week. Discussions with rostering/crewing produced no sympathy or assistance - so what was he supposed to do, he didn't go sick, he told crewing he was refusing his roster for the required days, risking a disciplinary.

I agree you shouldn't go sick when you are not, but sometimes a Company culture and inflexibility makes it almost impossible not to!!

[AMEandPPL]

I agree you shouldn't go sick when you are not

Everybody seems to agree on that . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . then that one little word appears . . . . . . .

BUT

Translation = "everybody else should behave in one way, the rules are different for me"

[411A]

Well, let's see.

Pilot applies to the HR department, looking for (big surprise, here) work.
Said pilot gets hired, then trained.
Once he is checked out...doesn't like the roster, so calls in 'sick'.

Companies.
Put these malcontents under a strict bonding arrangement.
No fly, no pay...and their guarantour has to pay the bond off, with interest, of course.
Then, blacklist these guys with other carriers.

IE: let these malcontents go pound sand.

[Ndicho Moja]

KrisKross, I had a similar issue many years ago. What I did when the roster came out was to tell rostering that I would not be available that day. I gave them plenty of notice so that there was no last minute rush to cover the trip. They did not like it and told me as much but that is life.

[rdr]

A lot of the problem is due to inequitable rostering, manipulation by pilots themselves, or, a seniority system which makes the job for the newcomers an ongoing nightmare.
The impression i get, is that calling in sick is routine in some companies.
It does vary from company to company world over, and very much depends on the culture and levels of discipline of your organisation.

The bottom line in my opinion, is that if you take this issue casually, some other poor sod is going to have to clean your plate. If it can be proven,
let them pound sand.

[condorbaaz]

quite true.

many ex indian airlines and Air india , (now NACIL) claimed: our life is very good. fly when you want to and report sick when you dont.

and most of them do not even carry their flight bag to the aircraft....

speak about being manipulative...

[411A]

speak about being manipulative...

Yup, happens the world over.
Some of the new joiners have a chip on their shoulders, and do not like being told what to do.

Toss 'em firmly out, I say.
No references either, so their chances with another carrier will be...less than desirable.:ok:

[Sir Osis of the river]

In a previous life, in a multicultural airline, the locals considered their 21 days anual sick leave as part of their normal leave allocation.

They made sure to use everyone of those days and most often over weekends. So guess who always drew the short straw? The Expat of course!

(however, no offence was taken when an expat did the same thing. It was expected.)

[Sky Dancer]

I cant believe Air India actually did that.Are your sources reliable ?

[condorbaaz]

Skydancer:

my first post has a link to a Times of India article. with a hyperlink.

Pls follow that...

EKlawyer:

I quite agree with you. Fatigue is what a pilot feels and MUST call in SICK if unable to fly.

But then must either be at home Sleeping/resting to overcome fatigue..

not ready for a blast and day out...

Most of the time, the sick call is not for the immediate flight but to push a cascading effect to a flight on a festival like I believe is due on Sunday/ Monday in Mumbai...

If yo call in sick too often, one day u will be sick and no pay as well.. chips really down huh..

[skytrotter]

It is illegal for a pilot to fly if he is feeling unwell and sickness cannot not be quantified - how can someone prove he is fatigued or mentally stressed for example ? The Indian Aircraft Rule 42 A specifically states that ' a pilot shall not exercise the privileges of his licence if at anytime he is aware that his medical condition has deteriorated below the standards required for his licence".

India has the worlds most unscientific FTL policies and fatigue is a REAL issue that can only be countered by reporting sick. Compounded by an unstable roster and a management that constantly denies leave to its pilots ,many Air India pilots are left with no choice - especially juniors who cannot manupulate the system by throwing their weight around.

Sending doctors to somebody's home without his consent amounts to unlawful tresspass and the very fact that a doctor has disclosed a patients medical condition is a breach of the Hypocrities Oath of maintaining confidentiality - I would break the doctors knees for illegally entering my home and then report him to the Indian Medical Association and suspend his registration for doing something like this.

This is a dangerous and illegal practice that will now seriously endanger passengers' lives by making pilots' fly even though they may be aware of a deterioration of their mental and physical conditions.A very very dangerous precedence undoubtedly fuelled by a high handed and shortsighted management.

[getsetgo]

it seems AI forgot to follow the procedure to sack.
managment must issue show cause notice...
based on show cause notice & after reply from employee managment issues charge sheet.
and based on charge sheet inquiry (enquiries generally takes time from 1year to 5 years)takes place.
result of inquiry can decide about the future of employee.
if after 5 years inquiry goes in favour of employee he gets full salary paid (all the time lost & other damages)
+all the benefits and bundles.
employee personal file becomes so thick by virtue of the enquiries that he /she gets fast promotions bcz its only his/her files every body see in the shelves all over the place
finance dept ....files for dues , pending over the years.
HR....inquiries and reports.
scheduling....suspended notice till enquiry completion (every body sees every day)
and soo on..........
position in the union, of course.

good luck :ok:

since managment issued sacking order directly ,pilots will go for appeal and get back sooner.

[condorbaaz]

is it the hippocrites or hypocrites oath?

Skytrottrer and getsetgo
;
The process must be followed. as regards the rules etc..

but if one isfatigued to fly, one should not be ready for a blast the same day wher it becomes obvious that the "sick" is a cover to go and party , amd not the result of a party.

Get real. You are the part of a team and as a First officer not a leader either.

Lead follow or get out of the way.

By s****ing the rostering dept you dont become BIG. Be ateam player.

As broght out by ndicho moja If you need off and have given previous notice then such is life.....

[AMEandPPL]

is it the hippocrites or hypocrites oath?

Actually, it's HIPPOCRATIC - after Hippocrates, known as the "Father of Medicine".

[getsetgo]

condorbaaz

you sound like policeman"s..***********:confused:

you are over concerned about the crew bags

**************************************

ur post

and most of them do not even carry their flight bag to the aircraft....
************************************************************ *

all of them have concerned staff to take care of the bags.

[skytrotter]

Sorry I meant the Hippocratic Oath - a typographical error.

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It is widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates, the father of medicine, in the 4th century BC, or by one of his students

The oath reads as under ( please pay attention to the lines in RED )

".I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepios and Hygeia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

.....Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief .....What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about......

If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot"

SO BEWARE ANY AIR INDIA DOCTOR WITH A COVERT AGENDA,WHO ENTERS MY HOUSE!!!

[condorbaaz]

Dear getsetgo,

I am not a policeman.

I have just stated what some people have conveyed to me.

I am sure there will be people employed to take care of their bags.

It is just that sometimes, people tend to take things for granted and forget that while they might get away, the rest of the flock is sc****d.

It is in a dynamic time such as now that mgmt will put in some ridiculous rule to report sick to the company doctor at operations etc..

I think there is merit in what 411a says in his post on 13 sep 2358 hrs.


PS: And please remember, it is india. Dismissal will be challenged in court and at the first sign of legal trouble, depending on the clout of affected party, the dismissal willbe revoked.

Remember the story of crying wolf...

[leftseatview]

According to reliable sources,the two have been given another chance.

[filthyrichandcatflap]

"I remember about 4 to 5 years ago, a friend told me a tale of woe. He was French, and had been asked to give his sister away at her wedding, in France, the date of which he passed on to rostering about 1 year before.

He reminded rostering each month for the 3 months leading up to the month of the event.

When his roster came out... yes you've guessed it , he was working a full week. Discussions with rostering/crewing produced no sympathy or assistance - so what was he supposed to do, he didn't go sick, he told crewing he was refusing his roster for the required days, risking a disciplinary.

I agree you shouldn't go sick when you are not, but sometimes a Company culture and inflexibility makes it almost impossible not to!!"


Isnt that what leave is for?

[cactusbusdrvr]

I cannot believe that most of you would not call in sick if you needed the time off. To those in the lands of the 4 day and 34 hour work week, those of us in counties that actually work 40 plus hours a week sometimes need an extra day off.

Having said that I had never called in sick in 20 years of flying until our last contract. When our hours went from 82 per month to over 90, with mixed day and night flying I found myself getting sinus infections and other illnesses every few months. And I work out and run every day, so fitness was not an issue. Now if I feel ill I have no problem using my sick bank because my health is worth more than inconveniencing a reserve pilot who may have to fly my trip.

[Flying_Distrails]

I for one have always abided by my values and ethics and donot report sick when I am not sick . I will Kick and scream about not wanting to fly on my First sons first Birthday or My anniversary Or a Court Date . BUT I will not report sick as that mucks it up for those who Genuinely are sick.
Lately I have been wondering what all these stupid morals really are for? I have 158 days Total Leave Accrued and When I want 7 days off and ask for it 3 months in advance I have to fight for it even on the last day and what do they do when I am not granted the leave 40 Measly hours a month IF That. The last time i Asked for leave it was granted but then another management who had some grudge with the boss who granted MY leave Cancelled it after I had gone on leave and created a ruckus for me being AWOL till the Real Boss came back and settled the issue.


I guess All you pilots Belittling the Guys who Supposedly reported sick are Sick yourselves and should be ashamed to call yourself pilots for casting doubts on your brethren without a fair trial. I Donot condone what they did nor do I blame them. Part of me wants to Cheer them on t hat some one is sticking it to the jackass Pilots who think they OWN The Airline when.

Get your Facts before you throw stones at another.

[40&80]

I worked for GF... and it was 29days after her birth before I got to see my new daughter....and that was on a quick 5 hour visit as I was in the UK doing my six monthly GF B767 sim check.
I had previously requested leave for this event and or 3 days off if this was impossible ...I was told all options were unavailable.
I did see my next daughter born and was glad I did as there were not to be any further children...how did I escape to see it?....sorry it is still on the official state secret list...as a bonus I also got to visit a dentist!