RVSM Africa

[rags]

With RVSM about 2 weeks away from reality in Africa, I just wonder if the PPRUNERS out in the sticks would like to let us know how prepared the countries they operate in, are for this (for Africa) major change.

I have asked several staff members of flight plan offices in Nigeria what RVSM is, what must be in Field 10 in the ICAO flight plan and what will the new flight levels be. The answer usually is "HU what’s that". They have so far had no training at all

My view is that the same answers will come from DRC, Sudan, etc, etc, etc and it will not be nice to hear.

Any ideas how the different operators are doing with the old 73's, 72's and even newer aircraft?

Any news if some countries will be opting out of RVSM

These first days after the night of the 25th will be hairy scary.

Looking forward to a nice informative chat on this subject, that worries me a lot
:cool:;)


Fly safely

[4HolerPoler]

Just another reason to engage the (ICAO recommended) mile right of track function for those of us lucky enough to have the gizmo.

Never has a region been so ill-prepared for the inception of reduced minimums. IMHO.

4HP

[groundfloor]

Scary Scary, don`t rely on the 1 mile offset, it only keeps you out of the way of the other guys with decent nav equipment. The others can be anywhere up to 5NM left and right...

So keep your cockpit lights down and keep your heads up, 126.9 all the way and keep the SA going.

Report all deficiencies to your airlines and associations and we can keep it safe out there....

[ORANPO]

Its gona b very interesting, i can assure you that the atcs at jhb are ready to go an are 100% capable of handling anything, but the current eurocat system an "maaandag chomma" "brilliant plans" are not!

[atco749]

from the documents i have read all FIRs in the AFI region are implementing RVSM. thus if above FL290 no 2000ft separation will be used, no need to change from 320 to 310 since 310 will no longer be Westbound.....

[The 1]

hi there

I know Airways is equipped,but is the domestic crew ready?

apprently ATNS is ready,how true is that?

CAW last i heard were 50% along, any other developments?

what about Airlink,Express and 1time?
and any of the SADC countries,what are your developments?

anyone knows?

[Apollo20]

Gents
RVSM takes intercontinental effect at 0001Z on 25 Sept 08. Reason for this is it is (calculated) the most stable phase of flight where the majority of a/c over Africa are in a "safe" cruise config.

Now, is Africa ready, offcourse not, although all the CAA's have accepted RVSM ops to proceed with this, many of them (incl a few in SA), are not yet familiar with the thorough understanding. However, it's the 1st time in history that all CAA's in Africa have agreed to something in Aviation!!

Now, how do we fly safe:
1) if you are RVSM compliant, you're good to go between FL290 and FL410. Ensure that your A/P system is able to hold altitude for atleast 25min with no more than a 65ft +- deviation. ensure your ACAS II is working properly!! Most importantly, 126.9 very accurately. Make sure you guys as crew are "RVSM rated" as there ARE a few important issues regarding ADC failures, periodic cross-check procedures to follow due to the more accurate requirement and smaller tolerances with RVSM equipment.

RVSM is a good thing for Africa, as the bigger cats surely needs this to get preferred FL's hence, burning less fuel. It makes 101% economic sense for airlines.

Are there any more q's on RVSM?

Apollo 20

[getz]

I think for the CT-JS-CT route this will be great. Can get optimum levels. I know SAA and Comair is compliant. Do not know the rest. For the rest of Africa...... I believe we will have a couple more FLs but without the REAL support.

[Zenj]

Apollo 20

Do you have any RVSM materials like training CD or documents for training ?

Will appreciate your reply.

[Carrier]

Quote: "I know Airways is equipped,............"

Which "Airways"? This is the African Aviation forum and there seem to be many air operators named "XYZ Airways" in the continent: eg Zambian Airways, Sudan Airways, Hewa Bora Airways. Kenya Airways, British Airways, Wimbi Dira Airways, etc. Which of them are equipped? Are all their crews trained?

When there are large parts of the continent where there is no effective ATC, no radio communication with ATC as their radios are u/s or out of range and no effective radar coverage how is it going to help? All it seems to be doing is placing aircraft closer together vertically without the increased equipment and training accuracy that the First World requires. It may enable some aircraft to achieve more economical flight levels but at the cost of decreased safety separation. Perhaps everyone is relying on all aircraft at these levels having and USING TCAS.

[rags]

ZENJ

Training docs are difficult to come by as dedicateed documents for RVSM today (Meaning RVSM worldwide) in not available as a single doc. There are several docs available (Just Google RVSM and hope you have enough time) The best single doc is on the web by the NATRACKS) This doc is dedicated to the North Atlantic Track. They started RVSM etc. Get it from the web. Eurocontroll and FAA have some docs as well, but they are read with thge NATRACKS doc
( Some ppruner can pleas give some ref to the sites)

My bigest proble is basicaly the overflight of the DRC and Angola. The HF in these FIR's are realy a hit and mis. Did Lagos Yomeo the other day and from Douala to Entebe airspace we had minimal contact except 126.0

I agree with some contributer the the TRA will not be a problem. Not to woried about SADEC The VHF coms in these FIR's is reasonable (unless you prove me wrong, havent been there lately)

I am glad I will not be airborn in the transition time and certainly will recomend to the boss not to be. Simpathy to all those big 2, 2 and 4 holers during that night.

Spoke to Aero in Nigeria and the are ready (to be expected from a good airline). Assume Arik and Virgin will be as wel but for the rest ............(politicaly correct No Cement)

I fully agrre with the statement to offset track. Modern nav systems are to damm acurate for comfort in Indian country. Thanks heavens for TCAS (Hopefully not to many aircfart will operate incognito as I am worried about those IL 76 etc from the old eastern block although we must garant them some credit THEY HAVE IMPROVED A HELL OF A LOT)

I started this tread and I am pleased about the reaction Shows that there are a lot of concern out there.

[rags]

By the way after ZENJ,s remark it actualy worries me that there are stil pilots to be trained.

Remember that you need a certificate from a SACAA aproved training School before you can ventue into RVSN airspace

The rigmarole to get you, your company and the aircraft certified is bad and for those who are not ready SORRY its going to take 2+ monthe before you can get this sorted. Just to get a booking to do the RVSM test with ARINC is a long wait(and US$4000) So get cracking

DO NOT GET COUGHT IN RVSM SPASE WITHOUT APPROVAL it will cost you BIG TIME:{

:ok:

[SU-GCM]

As long as I know Egypt (Cairo FIR) is the only Airspace in Africa applying the RVSM following ME RVSM
I have been in a visit to the CANC (Cairo Air Navigation Center) and heared that soon Sudan (Khatroum FIR) Will be applying RVSM as well and that LOA are being prepared for applying new Spearation procedures on SML and MRW VORs for Traffic on same headins following each other

By revising the NOTAMs for HSSS you will see that they have some NOTAMs regarding starting operating by RVSM

A0216/08 - TRIGGER NOTAM: PERM SUP AIP 001/08 AND AIC 001/08 IMMPLEMENTATION
OF RVCM WITHIN KHARTOUM FIR.
WEF SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0001 UTC - RVSM WILL BE IMPLEMENTED:
- SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT ABOVE
FL410 TWO HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER , FM
SEPTEMBER 24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201
UTC.
- SUSPENSION OF FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 310,350 AND 390 TWO HOURS
BEFORE AND AFTER THE TIME OF SWITCH OVER (TOS), FM SEPTEMBER 24TH
2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC.
- DISCONTINUANCE OF OPERATIONS FOR NON-RVSM APPROVED AIRCRAFT
BETWEEN FLIGHT LEVELS (FL) 290 AND 410 INCLUSIVE FM SEPTEMBER
24TH 2008 AT 2201 UTC TO SEPTEMBER 25TH 2008 AT 0201 UTC. 09 SEP 09:46 2008


A0181/08 - SUSPENION USE OF EAST BOUND RVSM FL310, 350, AND FL390. 25 SEP 00:01 2008 UNTIL
25 SEP 02:01 2008. CREATED: 06 AUG 08:35 2008
UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 09 SEP 09:48 2008

A0171/08 - PROHIPTING THE NON RVSM ACFT WITHIN RVSM AIRSPACE (FL290 AND FL410. 24 SEP 22:01
2008 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:36 2008

A0170/08 - SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS ABOVE FL410 OF NON RVSM ACFT FOR TWO (2)
HOURS BEFORE AND AFTER TIME OF SWITCH. 24 SEP 22:01 2008 UNTIL 25 SEP 02:01
2008. CREATED: 31 JUL 07:29 2008

[Browright]

The Nigerian Airspace Management Agency has been holding seminars on RVSM implementation and the awareness is gradually working its way down to the flight crew and dispatch personnel.

ATC personnel are already well briefed and will have no problems adopting the RVSM procedures and clearances

[snotneus]

At link the J41 and Bae 146 don't need RVSM (to low) Most of the ERJ crew are RVSM rated and the ERJ's are "RVSM out of the box". Don't know about the RJ85 though.
My question is what do we do if one of our crew member's aren't rated? Stay below FL290?

[Zenj]

RAGS

I don't see the document that you are talking of.

Can you PM me and send it on my e-mail please.

Our crew are trained and soon certified by CAA before 25th , I happen to be a member in my national RVSM steering committee and i'm collecting every document possible, i have several already.

My country will be ready both , crew and ATC personnel , for the RVSM , come 25th September.

Cheers

[rags]

Zenj

The doc can be found on the North AttlanticTracks Organization site

NAT PCO (http://www.nat-pco.org/)

Just look on the lower end and it will link you to the PDF file.

Also links to the eurocontrol site

Enjoy reading. Its a good training document dealing with two aspects of this subject RVSM and MNPS. Looks like you like to do some self study so enjoy as this was the only doc available to us oldtimers when RVSM started.:ok:

[rags]

snotneus

As far as i know all crewmembers must be rated so yep you have to below unless you want to explain thie little inconvenience to the waterfall park fairies ;);) Now that is to say if they catch you with a ramp inspection on landing etc :O

But dont cry the flight schools are making good bucks out of the training.

[rags]

When looking for the natracks website I found the following on a safety dos they published

4HP and groundfloor mentioned it above and I found it very good

Loveitorlumpit:}:ok:

Strategic Lateral Offset Procedures (SLOP)
SLOP was created to reduce the risk of collision. SLOP involves the selection of offsets to the right of the cleared track and it is to be used as a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) in the NAT Region. Random distribution of aircraft on and to the right of the centre line is key to compensating for the extremely accurate navigation capabilities of modern aircraft. This accuracy creates a situation where aircraft can be at immediate risk of collision if there is an unintended loss of vertical separation between flights following the same or reciprocal tracks.
By allowing pilots to randomly select to fly either 1 or 2 nautical miles (nm) right of the centre line, SLOP also incorporates wake turbulence avoidance procedures.
Although some NAT aircraft operators have successfully implemented this procedure as a SOP, there is still relatively little uptake on the part of the majority of NAT aircraft operators. Since the aircraft without automatic offset capability must fly the centre line, those that are capable are strongly encouraged to fly an offset of one or two nm right of the centre line.
In practical terms:
1. if your aircraft can be programmed to fly an offset, fly a one nm or a two nm offset to the right of the centre line
2. being random is key to the procedure - follow your company’s SLOP SOPs or find ways to choose different offsets for each flight
3. always fly your offset to the right of the centre line
4. you should fly an offset from the oceanic entry point to the oceanic exit point
5. you don’t need an ATC clearance for an offset
6. you don’t need to report that you are flying an offset if you are in the NAT Region
7. if your offset causes wake turbulence problems for a following aircraft, choose a different SLOP option (0, 1 or 2 nm to the right of the centre line) from the one you are currently applying
Further information regarding the use of SLOP in the NAT Region is available on the NAT Programme Coordination Office (NAT PCO) Website at NAT PCO (http://www.nat-pco.org).

[abc.fp]

Rags

From an ATC perspective. Fruitfull Forum! I think its important to discuss these issues, as there will definately be some "problems" to start off with. I think everyone should just keep a open mind in the beginning especially.

The way its supposed to happen, is that the whole continent adopts RVSM on the 25th, and not only the coutries that are ready. I'm not very sure about the status of most countries, but it looks like there will not be another delay this time.

Between midnight and 02h00 on the 25th, FL310, 350, and 390 will not be used, because these are the "dangerous" FL's which will change direction. So beware of those in the beginning!

Only RVSM approved aircraft will be allowed in RVSM airspace. (FL290-FL410). This approval must be indicated in the FPL, else ATC will not allow you in. Non-RVSM State aircaraft (Police, Customs and military) will be allowed into the RVSM airspace, but 2000feet seperation will be maintained.

Non-RVSM aircraft will be kept below the airspace, FL280 and below, which may cause you to have a very expensive flight. Dont get cross with ATC please, as we have no jurisdiction over this. FL430 and above will be available in some cases, if a climb through the RVSM airspace can be accommodated.

I have some documentation available on RVSM, and could present information if there are some questions.

[Bucket]

Flight Safety do a good training file with CD.

:ok:

[TwinJock]

Is SLOP to be used in an FIR where radar coverage is provided?

In the NAT area of operation, there is no radar coverage, and SLOP should be used. Once you exit the NAT area into adjoining RVSM airspace, the SLOP must be canceled.

[abc.fp]

TJ

Very good question! What does jepp say? From an ATC perspective, I have not heard this topic being discussed as yet.

Strategic Lateral Offset in RVSM - Page 2 - Airline Pilot Central Forums (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/7439-strategic-lateral-offset-rvsm-2.html)

I see this matter being discussed under the above link.

Maybe it'll help?

[RSQ]

Was just looking through the RVSM requirements for South Africa, and noting how few general aviation operators were compliant (no faith in ATNS?). It got we wondering, so I picked up the CARS and CATS, and unless I am missing an update, the law still prescribes the old altitudes.
Now taking into account that the CARS and CATS are regulations contained in laws, how do we suddenly on the 25th start breaking the law?
What happens if two airliners go bang in the transition period (or after) followed by a rain of aliminium?

I am willing to bet that the underwriters will cry foul to save themselves a hundred million or so, and accuse the crew of operating illegally.
Any thoughts, am I wrong here?
Something also just occurred to me - can ATNS legally clear you to an altitude which does not exist in the regulations - I know thaty can do it for safety,but as a matter of course?
Some guys are saying, well there is an AIC, - an AIC will not help you when you stand infront of the magistraat - it is an information document only.:confused:

[RSQ]

Yup - my question is - the CARS and CATs mandate and legislate the old flight levels, seeing that the CAA have not updated the law, we cannot operate at the new levels in contravention of the regulations in the event of a bang - the insurers will run for cover!

Personally, I will file the old levels and refuse to accept any clearance in contravention of the law.

[Voel]

RSQ, you're right :confused:

CARS (Namibian) states the following:

Operation in defined airspace with Reduced Vertical Separation Minima (RVSM)

121.08.43 An operator shall not := operate an aeroplane in defined portions of airspace where, based on Regional Air Navigation Agreement, a vertical separation minimum of 300m (1000ft) applies unless approved to do so by the Director (RVSM Approval) :ok:

Semi-circular rule

91.06.33 (1) Unless otherwise directed by an air traffic service unit, the pilot-in-command of an aircraft in level flight, shall fly at an appropriate flight level selected according to magnetic track from the table as prescribed in Document NAM-CATS-OPS 91.

CATS Part 91 It refers to the old semi-cirular rule :ugh:

[rags]

RSQ et al has now started something

Can someone give us the correct legal view and what is SACAA doing about it.

As far as I know CARCOM must sit to change the CATS and CARS or the SACAA must bring an emergercy change to the regs like they did the other day to sort the mes out wih instructors

What does the regs for you ATC talkers say in about the RVSM levels

Rather interesting:ok:

Sorry I am living in the sticks and the CATS and CARS on the CAA website is about ten changes out of date and takes hours to download

Looking foward to the comments

[atco749]

surprise, surprise....SA are at the fore front of implementing RVSM....are you guys sure the laws dont give a table of RVSM levels and state that it is subject to Regional air Navigation agreement......check the updates.....Kenya has that law...

''Personally, I will file the old levels and refuse to accept any clearance in contravention of the law''......would not advise that:=

[Shrike200]

Well, he's welcome to refuse that clearance - it's his prerogative. But the next one's going to be 'Climb and maintain flight level 290, final level.' :8

[vuurvoel]

Rags, where in Nigeria do you operate?:( My experience is that the briefing personell and atc's in Nigeria know exactly what RVSM entails and that they have been trained for the implementation! I further believe that there is a plan for the changeover period and that the concern should rather be about non rvsm aircraft that "plunder" into said airspace, than that the country is not prepared! Let us be more cautious about making general statements on a public forum without verifying the facts first!:= A valid question is "What is the experience in the rest of Africa?" Lets plan properly and fly safe!:ok:

[CJ750]

Great thread Guys and Gals

Personally we are ready and GA ----wonders of wonders But i feel RSQ has a point. How do we get a straight answer to this from CAA in Midrand at the moment. You speak to different inspectors and get different interpretations. Is there anybody at CAA who knows the law with regards to RSQ,s point above.

[Lockeed Tristar]

Guys,

Congratulations as this is one of the first positive foruns I have found on PPrune! Any way going back to the subject RVSM in Africa.
I do think it is a bit premature to be implemented!
Just look at FIR´s like Luanda or Kinshasa where some times you go for hours without any radio com or any traffic info/separation!!!!
If in the past 126,90 was important now it will be even more.
I sincerely hope that this move does not cause a major incidente/accident.
The responsability will once again bear in the shoulders of the flight crew, increasing significantly the allready high levels of stress and workload!
On the other hand, what about procedures, all the other RVSM areas like the NAT, EUR RVSM, EUR/SAM, PAC, have well prescribed procedures, specially contingency procedures. Does any one have the prescrived procedures for AFI RVSM?

Looking forward to get your thoughts,

FLY SAFE!

[abc.fp]

LT

I agree that it might seem a little premature to implement RVSM, but the problem is that it has been postponed for years already. All the states had more than enough time and access to recourses and expertise to comply by the said date. No more excuses!

And yes, I believe that there will be some states that wont be entirely ready, as well as some airlines. But they will be the ones embarrased. Time has run out, we cant keep on postponing...

Regarding the procedures, in order to acquire RVSM approval flight crew should undergo RVSM training. This should adress all the issues regarding procedures. Else the regional monitoring agency (ARMA) can surely help out with the necessary info? They can be reached at ATNS (Johannesburg, South Africa). They are really doing a great job, and are very very helpfull.

If I could give some advise to fellow aviators. One of the biggest teething problems I see coming is on who will be allowed into RVSM airspace and who wont. The way it works is that a state must grant RVSM approval to its local aircraft when they apply for such and meet the minimum requirements. This information "shall" then be passed on to ARMA (South Africa) who have an updated list of all approved aircraft in the region.

But what has come to my attention during the past few days is that this info is not in all cased passed on to ARMA, and therefor it might happen that you are considered non-RVSM when flying to neigboring FIR's, even though your paperwork is actually in order. I know that Angola and Namibia for instance have not one aircraft registered with ARMA. It would be silly if an A340 gets stuck at FL280 all the way to Europe, due to the DCA not doing their job.

So to avoid being stuck below FL290 on thursday, maybe just get your OPS office to double check with ARMA on your RVSM status!

Regards

[natdat]

Is that thing going to for real?I mean it's like 2 days from today and am hearing nothing from my company.What i dont understand is the atc's concerned dont even have a radio eqpt thet can be relayable for half the F.I.R. they say they cntrol.From all africa i think southern africa and to a limited extent some parts of western africa excluding nigeria; liberia;ivorycoast; ande.t.c. r able to handle the load that comes with being an R.V.S.M. airspace.By the way when it comes i think it applies to all states concerned rather than being optional.It should be or else flying R.V.S.M. in one airspace and changing to non R.V.S.M. in another is gonna be the real headache.HEY FLIERS GET READY FOR THE NOT SO READY AND BEST OF LUCK .:ok:

[Apollo20]

Gents
For those thinking this is a "dream" that RVSM is not happening on 25 Sept 08 at 0001Z, here is the link for the lawful confirmation.

http://www.atns.co.za/RVSMimplement.pdf

For the sake of flight safety, LETS ALL PLEASE just take hands and make it work as this will not be the time to look for "issues", rather get educated, prepared, and FLY SAFE as RVSM is not going to make flight ops easier, it might allow more economic sense for the long run which I believe we all can benefit from it.

To those "die hards" out there, if you are brave to fly at FL280 and below, you surely have enough loot for fuel, so "burn along". To those being proactive on this, welcome to aviation evolution as you guys are the future of aviation in Africa.

Fly safe!

Apollo 20.

[I.R.PIRATE]

What are these "out the box" RVSM things of which you speak. Do they hold SACAA / KCAA etc certification yet? Or merely FAA?:suspect::suspect:

Rumour has that in SA only a handfull of the country's business jets comply so far - any truth to that?

[Broomstick Flier]

Could someone point me some official source of information (besides NOTAMs) regarding the start of RVSM in Africa?

Thanks!

BF

[reptile]

Broomstick Flier - check your PM's

[Broomstick Flier]

Thanks reptile!
In the meantime I had the chance to google a bit (yes, google is indeed our friend :)) and found this rather informative document issued by ICAO:
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/esaf/rvsm/comm/2008/0272.pdf

Cheers
BF

[rags]

Nice curved ball again.

Please point us to the ARMA site you talk about How do we know that ATC will allow us into RVSM I scratched on Euro controll site and they refer to the various regions to show the aproved aircraft and operators
How can we check if our aircraft is OK
I know mine is certified by the fairies at the waterfall but how do we know that it is internationally OK
Done the required ARINC flight about 9 months ago

WE still do not known if the CATS and CARS has ben ammended Help needed on this one


GOFFEL where are u

[Apollo20]

Gents
Easie peasie! here is a link for ya'll to read:

http://www.atns.co.za/RVSMimplement.pdf

It's the AIC giving all requirements.

Apollo20

[abc.fp]

Rags

Give ARMA a call and they can check for you if your aircraft is registered with them.

ARMA can be contacted:

Mr. Kevin Ewels
+27 11 928 6506
[email protected]

It doesn't look like there are clear guidelines to us ATC's regarding on who is really RVSM approved and who not. I think that there might in the beginning be some instances where the information available to ATC is not complete. Its going to come down to pilot's integrity to a large extent.

The way I would personally handle the situation is to take your word for it, and check with ARMA (which is one phone call away) if I have my doubts. I believe that there are many DCA's which have granted approval to suitable aircraft yet have simply not forwarded this info to ARMA. This should take a week to sort out at the most i think.

What worries me however is that one of the pilots I spoke to of South Africas "CARJ" operator, told me that they are RVSM complient, and ARMA claims otherwise. (This was less than a week ago) So as far as I'm concerned, all CARJ's will fly FL280 and below as ARMA's information would supercede Pilot's reports?

[porra]

If a Pilot reports "AFFIRM - RVSM Approved", we as ATC's go on that - it' the Pilots responsibility to ensure his paper work is in order.

[AirwayBlocker]

How's it going with RVSM in Africa? Mass confusion or is everything running smoothly?

[CJ750]

:confused::confused:
Running Smoothly...................HA HA HA. The fairies at Waterfall park are in total disagreement about thee regs that you cannot get the same answer from two different inspectors. This period is going to be interesting especially when they lose operators manuals for the 2nd time and say that is our problem not theirs.:ugh::ugh:

I feel sorry for the competent inspectors at CAA . Good luck with your RVSM approvals Ladies and Gents. Chaos reigns supreme.....................

[Voel]

I guess RVSM change-over went smoothly. Some guys were chased out of the airspace:ok:, but thats life. The same big fuss was made during Y2K. Anyhow, good luck :D and may safety prevail

[porra]

I agree - RVSM change over went smoothly, a non-event really.

[126,7]

Some guys were chased out of the airspace, but thats life.

If you have no traffic, the space and the levels available, why not leave the chap at a higher level, even if he is not rvsm certified? Fuel is soooo expensive and a little service toward the client can never be bad either. Especially if your airspace is as big as the Windhoek FIR is.

[dendronite]

If you have no traffic, the space and the levels available, why not leave the chap at a higher level, even if he is not rvsm certified? Fuel is soooo expensive and a little service toward the client can never be bad either. Especially if your airspace is as big as the Windhoek FIR is.

Fuel is expensive but if the transition allows for any transgression then the law will have less affect.
We have had plenty of warning and time to all become compliant. Not like some companies whose management style is reactive.
I won't mention names but just go and see the last minute rushers all of a sudden attending RVSM courses at cranfield for example.
You can hear their requested flight levels being denied due to aircraft not being certified etc.

I love it when crisis managers feel the pinch:D:D

Saving fuel etc

[Voel]

126,7 we had a long discussion about this and I agree, I would have no problem letting those guys into RVSM airspace. But tommorrow another "work by the rule " ATC :ugh: is on duty and you turn around saying that ATC X allowed me into RVSM airpsace:{. This creates a lot of a animosity in our already fagile working environment:*. The Germans say : Wo ein Wille ist, ist ein Weg :ok:

[Knold]

Wish I'd read this post 24 hrs ago. Nearly shat myself when I saw my flight plan for FL 320-340-360 yesterday.
Our documents said nought about RVSM being engaged.

Worked without a hitch though. Libreville - Rabat. That route takes you pretty much through all them nasty countries. Didn't try Congo with RVSM yet but if I know my own luck it will be too soon.

BTW, Which level are all those "secret" russian planes without transponder gonna hide at now? +/- 500 feet?

[atco749]

hey all you doubting thomas'...RVSM is going smoothly and has been a success for the past few days....it is surprising though that most airlines had not advised their pilots....ref knold...and many other airlines...what are those dispatchers employed to do?? better still dont pilots read AICs or AIP??? seriously!!!

[Knold]

Well of course I don't read AIC and AIP. Do you subscribe to all the worlds AIP services? If you do, I guess you do nothing else than update that behemoth of a library you must have.

At the risk of being corrected I think there should have been more heads up from Jeppesen. Compared to all the hubbub when RVSM was introduced in Europe, the introduction in Africa has been dead silent.

On a serious note, who will regulate that all aircraft comply?
Anyone who's been to middle Africa knows it all comes down to nepotism. My fear is that many planes will have local CAA approval for RVSM no matter the state of the equipment.

[yambat]

We came down across Africa two nights ago, surprised to hear some Euro airlines unaware about African RVSM, complaining its not on the charts (it is) Was strange crossing Sudan with opposite traffic 1000 below. More strange was the climb from 290 to 310 on our route, thinking that 310 was the non RVSM level northbound a few days ago, lots of wing floods on when passing each other!!

[ARENDIII]

Hee Hee Hee!
Got all you going I see!
Well I guess I'll still be haulin my 20 tonnes a' freight round da woild-na'h worring ta much bout dat cosmic radiation and still usin a lot less gas than you chaps!
Looks ta be a lot quieter down here at 270.
Keep smoiling and safe flying for ye all.
ArendIII.

[msr001]

We used to fly from Cairo to Lagos And Accra FL350 Southbound And FL370 Northbound.

But that's all history now..
Startring from Cairo FIR, Tripolli, Ndjamina, Niamy, Kano, Lagos, it's all RVSM.

Doesn't mean that you're under radar but it's still a major step.

:D:D:D:D

[farfromterrafirma]

Until this morning i believed, and from flying in the new RVSM airspace agreed that we DID transition smoothly to RVSM, but come on, if we're gona do this, all of us, ATC, Pilots and all involved in aviation should know whats going on, or AT LEAST have and IDEA for goodness sakes!!

After calling for start at an African airport (lets just say it lies between namibia and the DRC) and requesting FL 430 i was denied the flight level!! after askin why, i could not get an answer, yet flight level 400 was offered. After several attempts, another pilot (sitting and listening to this from his aircraft in a well established airline) cut in on the conversation and told me i was requesting the wrong level and wasnt complying with RVSM and should choose an even level???:D what??!!
the tower thereafter offered FL 400 or FL420 (FL420????:ugh:) I just laughed it off and eventually accepted FL400...

just an example of the lack of understanding of the new airspace...
any other similar incidents???

[CJ750]

Was that pilot from an airline that took some 747-400's out of mothballs to fly for the country between Namibia and the DRC. Some Skygods know everything .:(