Female pilots in the Middle East

[violet08]

Will soon be furloughed from my job with a major US airline. I've come to the conclusion that if I want to continue an aviation career, I'll have to find a job outside the US. The Middle East seems to have the best prospects and I was just wondering which airlines already have female pilots.

[6000PIC]

Before you make any hasty decisions , have you done your homework ?
Have you familiarized youself with the culture , demographics , geopolitical situation , and or the Airlines themselves in the area you mention ? Have you really made an effort , or are we going to be hearing from another bitter (American) pilot on this board in a few months who went abroad with little idea of the world out there and got suprised the the rest of the world didn`t run like they expected ? They don`t have much used for female pilots in the Middle East. Sorry to say that , but it`s their problem.

[remarkablebean]

I know Etihad has a few, but I understand they're all locals and began as cadets. You might want to punt your resume into FlyDubai - an American is chief pilot from Southwest among other places.

Sorry to hear about your furlough Violet, wishing you all the best, but 6000 is right - it's not the best recruiting ground for females up the pointy end, and it is indeed their problem and their loss.

[Hook]

Sorry folks you're all wrong.
Etihad, Qatar and Emirates all have female pilots. Emirates, for sure, also has foreign female pilots but not sure about the other 2.

[violet08]

To 6000PIC:
Yes, I've done some research. I spent almost 10 years in the military living overseas. I've operated in the Middle East. From my limited time in Kuwait, Bahrain, and Jordan, I know there are some negatives to the culture and climate; but in my situation, I don't believe there would be much of an adjustment.

My husband (no kids) is on board with the idea and we've already put our properties up for sale. If he gets a decent non-aviation job, we live modestly and save, I think we will be better off in the long run.

I've searched the posts on the various airlines and rather than waste my time applying to companies that will immediately disqualify me based on gender; I'd rather concentrate my efforts on those where I might stand a chance. I'm not out to change the world, just tired of changing jobs every few years due to circumstances outside my control. (Furloughs, cutbacks, and closures). If a company does not want female pilots, that's fine. I just want to know where I may be welcome or at least considered.

Thanks, :O

[remarkablebean]

Thanks Hook - I knew about Emirates - my mistake, not about Qatar though.

[Carioca773]

well violet GF has 2 female pilots, a local and an expat..


all the best

[FlyingCroc]

do you want to spend in the sandpit? Military is a different story, you do not live and work with these people here. Personally I dont think it is a good place for female pilots in general here. But yes there are a few pilots at Emirates, Etihad and I believe even at Qatar. Good luck.

[fatigueflyer]

Don't let these posts deter you from going to the ME. Have spent over 10 years in Dubai and once you get past the thin veneer of religion, culture and so called stereotyping of women, the conditions are the same. Many wives and girlfriends of pilots and other expats live and work in Dubai without too many problems so why shouldn't you work there as well. Flown with female pilots both overseas and at Emirates and can honestly say the women bitch a lot lot less than the guys. They just do a professional job and go home to their lives outside flying. Just had to watch my language a little around the ladies which is fair enough! Good luck and see for yourself.....:ok:

[violet08]

Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions. Believe me, I know it is not the ideal place for a female pilot. But, the industry is growing, the opportunities are increasing, and they are actually "hiring" pilots in the Middle East and more importantly they are taking possession of more aircraft. This is a positive sign in an otherwise gloomy aviation industry. If this were the case in Antartica, I'd be looking there. Job security, advancement, and adequate pay are paramount.
Flying Croc:
I'm looking at a minimum of 3-5 years. Potentially 10 or more, provided I'm making decent money and have some time off to travel. Over the past 4 years I've had 12 days of vacation...total. I've been furloughed 3 times in 5 years and will be again soon. Been through 3 new hire classes in the past 4 1/2 years. I'm sick of it. I want to work somewhere for a long time and call it home. I know I'm in the same boat as thousands of other furloughees. Because of no fault of our own, the industry has let us down and used us as temporary labor.
I ask: Where is it a good place for a female pilot these days? Where is it a good place for any pilot? Certainly not in the US. I lived on "the Rock" (Okinawa) for several years...wasn't particularly liked by the natives there, but when you respect your neighbors and live a quiet life, they tend to leave you alone, if not, you avoid them.
I don't care if I have to cover my head, or if I'm not allowed to drive, or if I have to conform to any other cultural requirement. I just want to fly, have job security, and a steady paycheck.:ugh: Is that asking too much?

[scaglietti]

Hi Violet

I find that on the rare occassions when I post, I try to be a voice of moderation. First of all I agree with your analysis. The US industry has not invested in a serious way in infrastructure for some time. The reasons are many but probably have a lot to do with a maturing industry and deregulation.

Let's deal with the negative posts. If you move to the GCC (I'm most familiar with Dubai) you'll find very little infringements on your personal liberties. Yes you can drive; yes you can wear what you want (within reason); yes you can socialize and drink alcohol (within reason); yes you can worship at Christian churches; yes you can get familiar foods at the supermarket (even pork)!

Having spoken to a few of the expat female pilots we have here at EK I have yet to hear any negative comments that are peculiar to their gender.

If your husband is joining you I might suggest you look at FlyDubai. They are not offering accomadation but with 2 incomes and 2 housing allowances you might live quite comfortably. Getting in early would also mean seniority and good upgrade possibilities.

Good Luck

Scaglietti

[TwinJock]

I don't care if I have to cover my head, or if I'm not allowed to drive, or if I have to conform to any other cultural requirement. I just want to fly, have job security, and a steady paycheck.:ugh: Is that asking too much?


Violet, in the UAE you do NOT have to cover your head, you ARE allowed to drive, and you WILL have job security!

I would definitely look at Dubai, e.g EK or FlyDubia. I will only consider the rest in dire emergency!

My personal feeling is that the ME airlines only look at female pilots if all else fails and if they are in dire need of drivers. At present it looks as if the ME companies are flush with applicants!

Good luck!

[TidaBisa]

FlyDubai currently looking for NG pilots with time in type right now.

[FlyingCroc]

Is without question about the only place suitable, not only for Females but also for expat pilots in general. As a city it has basically everything that you have in the western World, however it is not a World city comparable to New York or Hong Kong. Bad hot climate, dust, Ramadan closing, crazy insane driving, mostly single guys (laborers) in the streets that have not seen a woman in years. And also consider what is your husband going to do while you will fly around the World in your shiny jet to places like Paris, Singapore, New York etc. Ground jobs are usually lousy paid with bad conditions. Usually it is not even worth taking a job because of a few hundred dirhams. A girlfriend of a good friend just took an office job because she was so bored, paid bad but a least something to do. Think about this, you can work but the chances are very limited for him. And there is not much to do, he needs a sponsor to be able to work. If you should move, my advice don't sell the house, have an option in case everything goes wrong. The other gulf states, forget it, maybe Bahrain, but Gulf Air is in bad shape now. Try Emirates, Etihad, Fly Dubai and Air Arabia. Good luck. :)

[MYROSTERSUCKS]

What kind of flying experience do u have?? Type rated on.........

[Panama Jack]

I am not certain of how many female pilots Gulf Air has at this moment--I think 3. One is the first Bahraini female pilot and the others have all been of European nationality. I believe there are a few more female Bahraini cadet pilots in the pipeline. I, for one, would welcome the oportunity to see some more female pilots in the pilot ranks in Gulf Air. There are also some female pilots at the DHL operation here in Bahrain-- know of one female captain of Panamanian nationality.

Not all the countries here are equally created. I would think that the UAE and Bahrain would be the easiest for an independently minded, female professional to adapt to followed closely by Oman. Forget about Saudi Arabia.

I wish you luck!

[PositiveRate876]

flyDubai's recruitment is being done initially by EK, so you can be rest assured that its demographics will be similar to EK, so female pilots welcome.

[6000PIC]

Violet , I sincerely wish you luck in your endevours. It must be frustrating to live and work in an industry and a world ( or at least the ME part of it ) where women are not treated equally. You´ll get there in the end.

[violet08]

Thanks for all the responses and messages. There certainly is a lot to consider, and I am making an in depth analysis of the facts and info. That's why I've been researching and asking for input from those who know...fellow pilots who are in the ME or have worked for ME carriers in the past. I knew that women are allowed to drive and need not cover their heads in most of the countries; I just wanted to emphasize my willingness to conform and sacrifice for the sake of fitting in and keeping the peace.

From a financial perspective I could take a job at a regional airline (starting at what, $18K a year or so) here in the US or a non-flying job and 10 years from now, I should be okay. Or, I could apply myself to flying as much as possible at a progressive airline in the Middle East (with a nice starting pay and yearly increases) and 10 years from now I will have enough money saved to have options. I could return to the US, stay in the ME, or move to some other place in the world.

To MYROSTERSUCKS:
I have an A320 and B757/767 types. I don't meet the minimum 500 hours on the A320 for Gulf Air and will be furloughed before I get to that threshold (have just over 200 on the A320). I've sent my info/applications to those companies that have been recommended, but I surmise that minimums are minimums and without which you are not qualified.
As far as flydubai is concerned, if priority is given to those with the 737 type, it may be some time before they would consider me. I have over 500 hours on the 757-200, but that's not the same as a 737. But hey...that's why we have unemployment compensation!

To FlyingCroc:
Husband is very resourceful. He painted buildings in Okinawa for 3 years while I flew shiney planes around Asia. We took some great vacations, saved a lot of $$ and now with his management degreee, who knows what opportunities await. He agrees that it would just be a waste for me to give up aviation after 16 1/2 years of flying because I might not like the sand, dust and potential cultural inconveniences. Plus, we both think living there would be exciting and a great location from which to travel to other countries.

[dundem]

It may not help much, but GFs requirement for typed, direct entry F/O is 250 hrs on the A320 and 500 jet, multi-crew.

[violet08]

To dundem:
I'll be furloughed next week...looks like I'll top out at 220 hours in the airbus. Not anything I can do, even though the price of oil is lower than it was when I started training...I'm still on the street next week.:uhoh:
Unless GF would consider me 30 hours shy of their requirement. But why should they? There are enough other pilot furloughees who have the time. I applied last night anyway. If it's meant to be, I'll have an offer at some point. All one can do is to stay positive and keep trying.:O

[FlyingCroc]

I am sorry to hear about your furlough, and I know how that is, thats why I ended up in the sandpit. Now I have 5 years behind me and ready to move back to the states (if possible).
However if you really desperate you might try Qatar Airways, they are very desperate for A320 pilots and even B777 direct entry FO's. Give it a try, the major downside is Doha, a real dump.

[violet08]

To Flying Croc:
I sent the application off to Qatar as well. Thanks for the suggestion. I just don't want to be stuck on unemployment in the US for too long without a flying job. Each month that will go by will make me one month less current and in this industry... if you ain't current, you ain't competitive.

I truly appreciate all the positive inputs that I have received. We've all been in the situation where we have had to make major decisions about our careers and when you make a couple of "bad" ones (at least timing wise) and end up with your dream job that lasts only 6 months....well...you become hesitant and extremely cautious. :ooh:

I know there is a flying job out there where I can work hard and have job security. The novelty of working for a "major" US airline wore off quickly. "Been there, done that" pretty much sums it up for me. Just want to move on with my life.

Thank you all.

[FlyingCroc]

Dear violet, just got an email today, Etihad is looking now for A320 Captains and FO's. Worth a try (for sure a lot better than QR), and remember do not rush to sell your house. Take it easy, go slow before you make a decision, there is no rush.

Good luck

FlyingCroc

[RnR]

hi violet,

Qatar do have female pilots (expats)
even capt's on the 320.

with time on 757/767 you might even get the 777

all the best.

cheers:)

[daviddea]

I would advise against coming to the ME as a US expat female pilot.

[Bredrin]

There are a few women flying for Etihad and as far as I know they are all westerners. Western European, Irish, South American, maybe others also. I have heard of no issues arising out of them being female and as far as I know they are settled and doing well.

Americans are accepted in the Gulf but, of course, you may get some flak over the Iraq issue and USA foreign policy from many nationalities, which has nothing to do with gender.

Keep your house, for now, take a look at flying out of Dubai, Ey in Abu Dhabi or Air Arabia in Sharjah. Air Arabia actually had the highest percentage of women pilots of any Gulf carrier at one point, (maybe they still do) you work hard there though and lots of night flights.

Do not be discouraged, go for it, if it doesn't work out.....then leave.

[PIPE RIDER]

QR has all nationalities of female pilots on both seats (like 8 on 9 total), with your experience you might get 777 f/o, think of upgrade opportunities in 5 years minimum regardless of your flight time, Doha is a dump, it is the most expensive province of India (because we are up to the neck of indians), but if there's something about QR is that there is no racial or gender discrimination.

They treat us all like SH.......:{
My two cents, come try it out don't like it leave, but do not disassemble your home operation, just bring whatever you can fit on 2 suitcases and as you join buy cheap car until you are certain you are gonna stay....

[KRUGERFLAP]

FlyingCroc (http://www.pprune.org/members/96403-flyingcroc)

All the same S#$%:mad: and you know that.

If you want to come here to save money forget it.If want to ruin your life .Hurry up SANDPIT is waiting for you.

[Payscale]

Its so sad when people end up on the wrong shelf. I cant say I love Dubai, but I dont hate it. If I did I wouldnt not be here I hope.

It all a question of unfulfilled expectations. Dont expect to much, as we are the means to an end for them and they for us. Unfortunately the value of the money has been steadily decreasing. But whos fault is that? Some recovering alcoholic in the white house, that read children books upside down while not seeming surprised when airliners crash into buildings...

Its a weird world......dont take it too seriously

[violet08]

Again, thank you for all the useful, intelligent posts to my question about women in the ME. I have an "interview" scheduled with Qatar at their US roadshow this week and I was invited for an interview with Etihad.

As far as "selling the home", yes the house is now up for sale, but nothing is selling, foreclosure rates are ridiculous and if we do end up in the ME, will probably just rent the home until the economy and market improves.

Through the course of this post (and others), I have been able to come up with a good list of important questions that I must have answered by reliable sources.

I realize that there are many who believe that a woman should not consider working for a ME airline as a pilot; but if I'm offered the chance, I've got to try it. I no longer have a job and I don't want to quit flying.

If I do end up in the ME and hate it, well, I've been warned and I will not be whining here on this board. If I end up on a track to reach my goals and am relatively happy....well, I'll let everyone know.

Thanks again to everyone!
Violet

[MAKAVELI320]

violete
gf is as ggood as the others life in bah is great we have few femal pilots with no gender issue qatar,ek,ettihad,oman,and air arabia all have femal pilots dont beleive all those bull **** u hear try it by u r self and im sure u want be disapointed good luck

[andorra2004]

Violetta, there are something I forgot about female pilots there. There are some Arabian companies (I don’t know if it applies to all) which include the immediate firing for a female pilot who gets pregnant. I ignore your intention about this point, may be you aren’t interested, but it is very important to clear that with the companies if your future plans include babies. I am afraid that gender influences in this point with that companies.

[zero CRM]

Andorra

Can you name one such company who fires woman pilots on pregnancy!!!

[violet08]

Thanks Andorra,
No plans on kids, really don't have the patience for them and I figure if I change my mind some day, I'll adopt. Personally, I don't think I would want to be a mother and a pilot at the same time. That idea brings up a lot of other issues. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it is the personal choice that I made many, many years ago and I've been happy with my decision.
I am more concerned with topics that suggest that you can not leave the country that sponsors you without their permission (what about a weekend trip to Jordan?) and how difficult it is to get your spouse sponsored for a work permit (to be cost effective, husband has to work too). Hopefully, I will have the answers to these and other pertinent questions in the coming weeks.
Violet

[frankbama]

Keep us posted and good luck.

[Payscale]

Hi There,

It not a problem leaving the country on days off. On the crew portal you click on the off base request and go on your trip...
There are 12 female pilots with ek. Some single others married. I know some of the hubbys are working.. It wont be a problem.
EK is different from a US carrier. Dont expect to be taught everything. Expect to study hard in you own time and answer questions from the instructors.

Cheers

[Utrinque]

Violet,

Have you thought about Vietnam. They will take you with your A320 time and the money is very good. There are plenty of yank pilots here and also girls in both left and right seats.

Check out the contract with PARC or RISHWORTH.

They offer one month on - one month off (that should beat your vacation record!) and six weeks on, two weeks off (most of us do that as its more cash!).

Good luck

[nadnor]

try jordan you have jordan aviation or royal jordanian

[geo7E7]

EY has 5 lucky ladies now. They're from different nationalities and age ranges from 24 to 36 First Officers. Maltese, Irish, French, Thai and the latest is an American...if I'm not mistaken. The Maltese and Irish are on A330 soon to be CCQed on to A340, French girl is an FO on A330/345/346. Thai is on A320 and the American is on 777. There are no Emirate lady pilots yet.
As to whether they're enjoying or happy with the job there....God knows...!

Hope this info's useful to you.

Cheers.

[violet08]

Well, Etihad is out of the picture for me. I underestimated the SE, raw data ILS in the A330. Did not think it would be that tricky. Should have bought some sim time before going over there. Would have been fine with a little practice. Never was trained for that configuration in the US (we do SE ILS's but always with an FD, its a whole 'nother ball of wax w/o it!!). Everyone at Etihad was extremely professional and I only have myself to blame. I think it would have been a great place to work. Good luck to everyone else.:(

[Sal-e]

Violet,
come to GF. You will enjoy it in Bahrain. And yes, do some homework before underestimating standards out here. They are pretty high.

[TonyWilliams]

I underestimated the SE, raw data ILS in the A330. Did not think it would be that tricky. Should have bought some sim time before going over there. Would have been fine with a little practice. Never was trained for that configuration in the US (we do SE ILS's but always with an FD, its a whole 'nother ball of wax w/o it!!).Sorry to hear that.

I just did an assessment a few weeks ago in London on the 737 sim for an African airline. Same deal, raw data, no flight director, no autopilot, NDB tracking and holding (with a 90 degree crosswind, of course), ILS to land.

I knew what to expect, and went out and spent less than 100 bucks to get Micosoft Flightsimulator X and "737 Pilot in Command". Spent several days just flying it with that set up, and getting used to what the controls looked like and where they were.

I also had "The Greatest Systems Study Guide B737-300/500".

I'm sure you can do the same with AirBus or other Boeing products (even the EMB and CRJ's).

Good luck on the next one!

[geo7E7]

So sorry to hear that...yup, it can be very tricky flying SE on rawdata ILS with variable x-winds down to landing. Many came back disappointed with the whole deal but I am sure you did your best.

Better luck next time and dont give up!