PPL SEP to PPL Helicopter

[Lister Noble]

Just interested to know what it takes to get a helicopter licence,apart from lots of dosh and skill.
I imagine some of the PPL flying hours and most of the exams count towards it?
Lister:)

[Bravo73]

Lister,

From LASORS (Section C2):

"The holder of a UK or JAR PPL(A), CPL(A) or
ATPL(A)* is credited the theoretical knowledge
examinations in Aviation Law & Operational
Procedures, Navigation & Radio Aids, Meteorology
and Human Performance & Limitations and JARFCL
Communications (PPL) if already passed.
(Please note: If no aeroplane rating has been held
in the 10 years preceding application, then the
applicant would be required to pass all the JAR
ground exams."

ie You will need to take the (H) versions of 'Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight' and 'Flight Performance & Planning'.

"Holders of pilot licences or equivalent privileges for
Aeroplanes (including UK QSP(A)), Microlights
having fixed wings and moveable aerodynamic
control surfaces acting in all three dimensions,
Microlight Helicopters, Gyroplanes, Gliders, Self-
Sustaining Gliders or Self Launching Gliders, may
be credited with 10% of their total flight time as Pilot-in-
Command in such aircraft up to a maximum of
6 hours towards a PPL(H)."

ie the PPL(H) course will be a minimum of 39 hours.


HTH

[Ken Wells]

I wrote an article for Blades Magazine on this very subject this year earlier this year.

Firstly , do not believe those who tell you it is best to have no flying experience before to start rotary.

If you have a PPL SEP you will have air-aware experience from Radio to cross country nav and basic airmanship disipline .

This will enable you to concentrate on the new skills to be learnt on controlling an "angry palmtree"

As already stated You are allowed 6 hours off the mandatory 45 if you hold a PPL SEP, but it is irrelavant anyway as the average hours will be between 55 and 70 anyway. Weather, time, skill etc etc.

If you need any advice you can contact me by a private message.

Good luck
Ken

[Jackboot]

There is a lot of myth about flying helicopters and a fair smattering of elitism within the heli fraternity.

It ain't difficult....

I would describe myself as an experienced fixed wing pilot, of average ability and with lots of tailwheel time.

I soloed the R22 with 8 hours in my logbook.

Fixed wing experience is very useful, especially tailwheel.

No point in learning IMO though if you arent going to buy a machine and keep it at home. It is expensive - the return is there for you in sheer utility but at a price.

I do IRO 40 hours fixed wing but 200 hrs a year R44 Heli - just because its at the house.

Be warned. Heli flying is highly addictive!

JB

[Lister Noble]

Thanks everyone for the replies to date.
Much as I thought,I think it is going to be outside my financial limits to learn and keep helicopter currency just for fun, as well as keeping my fixed wing flying which I love.
Lister:)

[S-Works]

I did mine in 40hrs. Nothing to it, learnt in the R22 and once you work out the 2 finger pudding stirring motion to control the thing it's quite easy.

All of the other elements of being a pilot carry across, like radio work, navigation, situational awareness etc.

It just felt like differences training to me.

[airborne_artist]

Firstly , do not believe those who tell you it is best to have no flying experience before to start rotary.Not sure where that one came from, but all three Services routinely give their future RW pilots upwards of 60 hours SEP before sending them to learn RW. While CFS is not the only fount of aviation wisdom, they may have learned that it saved money and/or time in the long run. It used to be more - I had 95 hours on Chipmunks and Bulldogs before starting on the Gazelle at 705.

[stiknruda]

Lister, I suggest that you contact my "friend" and arrange a trial lesson locally. She will be able to give you chapter and verse and a good estimation of total cost.

Saw you drive past the pub on Fri - ran out to wave you down, but you'd disappeared. Pub, early doors this Fri?


Stik

[Pilot DAR]

I did this earlier in the year, and it was very rewarding. There were a number of things which I had to unlearn from fixed wing, but it keeps me fresh, and hopefully combats complacency. 54 Hours in SW300, including extra time out touring around on my student permit. Now I have a license I can't fly solo any more - Insurance! My two first solos were just over 30 years apart, who says that you can't teach an old dog new tricks! I did my H500D endorsment in the spring, including some amazing mountain flying, and am working on a B206 endorsment now.

Pilot DAR

[Lister Noble]

See you there around 6pm on Friday.
Lister

[Wessex Boy]

When I went through Shawbury in the late '80s we were forbidden from doing any FW flying whilst on RW training, even as Crewman.

The reason given was that FW pilots may have subconcious reactions to a situation and would apply the wrong control inputs, mixing the two until the RW inputs were firmly implanted.

On my first weekend one of the guys on the course ahead grabbed me for a flight around the various nominated confined areas to prepare for his exam and solo signoff, (we hired a lovely C150 from Sleap) as I didn't offically start flying training until the Monday......

[MartinCh]

I soloed the R22 with 8 hours in my logbook

That was in the UK or outside USA for sure as FARs allow no less than 20h dual in R22 for solo sign-off. Subject to appropriate handling skills.
Still, being let solo after so few hours means you were quite 'natural'.

As for the '2 finger pudding stirring', well, hovering isn't the hardest part of heli training at least for me.
I don't see why some say so. Maybe they never flew helis.
Or they had most troubles getting the chopper stay withing certain space.
Autos, running landings, slopes, steep approaches in cross wind (keeping in the trim and ground track) all took me some time to get somehow OK (will master in future, obviously)

I can't comment on airplane pilots learning helis. I only did paragliding beforehand which is bit too simple regarding control inputs.

For such reason I elected to do initial RW training and planks later. I don't want to get serious low G in R22 etc.
I had my first gliding dual (K13) two weeks ago. Could have before my R22 training, but rather not.
I did OK, but it surely is annoying at first - the lag between inputs and outcome in turns, centering, going out of turns, keeping attitude while turning. Don't know how it's in Cessna or Piper yet, but twitchy R22 is way more responsive.

I almost felt bored by so few controls (stick and pedals), but it surely is more relaxing flying. In heli there's different regimes, cruise, hover, maneuvres.

Jackboot,
Why not certain feeling of elitism within reason? :hmm:
But not like I've heard some heli pilots/students that they wouldn't fly fixed wing - whether they actually tried it or not. Saying it's not 'real flying' etc. :ugh: That's just loads of crap. If Cessnas feel claustrophobic, why not going for DA20 or PA38, Robin etc.

Different people having different kicks from different ways/styles of flying..

[airborne_artist]

When I went through Shawbury in the late '80s we were forbidden from doing any FW flying whilst on RW training, even as Crewman.

I don't think we were banned from powered FW flying while on 705, but I know we were not allowed to go gliding. A 705 boy was on late finals in a glider, a bit low, so he reached for the lever on his left and pulled it up. Not surprisingly the glider dropped even shorter, and straight into a Cornish hedge, which you may know is mostly earth/stone bank. Sadly he did not walk away.

[Wessex Boy]

I don't think we were banned from powered FW flying while on 705

There was a general ban on Parachuting and Hang-Gliding whilst on aircrew training, I think they were just protecting their investment!

I think there was also concern with newly learnt rotary behaviours being accidentally applied to FW flying

[airborne_artist]

There was a general ban on Parachuting and Hang-Gliding whilst on aircrew trainingWhich wouldn't have stopped me falling of a horse while on summer leave and having to be back-coursed with a collar-bone in three bits :}

[Wessex Boy]

Which wouldn't have stopped me falling of a horse while on summer leave and having to be back-coursed with a collar-bone in three bits http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif


One of our guys (A large Glaswegian) got it slightly wrong in the roping demo for the course ahead's passing out display, jumped the last 6 feet and didn't bend his knees on landing - did both achilles tendons and was off flying for months!
Serves them right for making us pretend to be grunts....

[Fake Sealion]

Just to continue this bit of Military helo nostalgia -( Hi there Wessex & Airborne:ok:)

There was a stude on a course behind me who because of his height was deemed too tall to fit in either a Chipmunk or Bulldog and so he became the first RN Pilot ever to commence his flying training straight off on the Gazelle

He is now CO of the Fleet Air Arm Historic Flight

However, probably half of our course started on the Gazelle with just 10 hours or so Chipmunk flying. The other half also had 80-90 hours UAS Bulldog hours.

The average time to solo on the Gazelle was around 7-9 hours.

[airborne_artist]

However, probably half of our course started on the Gazelle with just 10 hours or so Chipmunk flying. The other half also had 80-90 hours UAS Bulldog hours.I think your post has lost something in the translation from Jack Speak to English, FS.

We did grading at Roborough on the Chipmunk, about 10 hours, while still at Dartmouth and then after Seafield Park (Aero med and survival) we all went to Leeming for 80 hours on the Dog. Then we went to the land of 50 kts fog for RW BFT on the Gazelle.

[Fake Sealion]

Thanks AA
Blimey....how could I forget 5 months at EFTS in glorious North Yorkshire.
Its been a tuff day at work...I'll blame that....and the relentless passage of time :sad:

You probably remember afore-mentioned Very Tall Midshipman?

[Wessex Boy]

Hi Fake Sealion!
In the Crab fats the Pile-its started out on Chippy/Bulldog then went onto Tucano, they then started the streaming process whereby the definate Jet-jocks went onto Hawks, the rest went onto either Heli or multi.

at points during the Hawk course if a jock was struggling then they either streamed the off to Helis or put them onto Canberras for a tour to see how they develop.

You could normally tell if the guy poling had gone straight to Helis, or via Hawks, there seemed to be an under-lying frustration in the latter;)