PPL flying question

[G CEXO]

Guys, I would like to start my PPL in October with Stapleford. I have already started ground school and have passed Air Law and have my AGK exam tomorrow.

The only question is, do you guys reckon I could get my PPL before March next year if I fly 3 days a week. Most likely, Fri, Sat and Sun.

I know its all about weather, availablility of instructors and aircraft but you guys would know about flying around the period between October and November much more than I would :sad:

btw, the reason why I would like to finish in March or before is because I need to start ATPL ground school with London Met and it commences on March 31st 2009 and if I miss that then i'm buggered till November 2009 :mad: :E

All advice appreciated and thanks for helping me out.

G-XO :ok:

[bern444]

I think you'd have to be very lucky, for all the reasons you stated.

[Whirlygig]

It depends on your committments and how flexible you can be in flying at short notice (allied to flexibility in aircraft availability). Some winter days can have fab visibility; let's face it, this summer has been pretty rubbish so perhaps the winter will be drier!

You've 26 weeks at say, 3 hours a week. Given some cancellations, it could still be do-able!

Cheers

Whirls

[Whopity]

Sounds as if you should be looking at an Integrated course. PPL in the winter part time with dark evenings; little chance! A bit like entering a marathon before you can walk!

[stiknruda]

In life there are people who say I can and those who say I can't.

Both groups are right! Go and make it happen.


Stik

[Gertrude the Wombat]

During the winter you're likely to fly about one day for each three you book. So to fly three days a week you'd have to book nine ... er ...

I'd think in practice the answer is that yes, you could do it if you treated it as a full time task, and no, you couldn't do it if you treated it as something to do at weekends.

So, if you need to work to earn a living at the same time, you might proceed as follows:

(1) Arrange with your employer that you can work weekends, and that you can take time off at any time with zero notice. This is OK in jobs where what's important is to get something done, rather than to be seen to be in a particular place at a particular time.

(2) Book to go flying every day.

(3) On the two thirds of days when flying turns out not to be possible, go to work, even if it is Sunday.

[Edited to add: of course this only works if you don't also have some sort of real life to get on with!]

[Lister Noble]

It took me from August 2005 to May 2006 flying Fridays,Saturdays and Sundays.
The CFI would not do more than 2 one hour lessons a day as he reckoned that anymore was too much to absorb.
A lesson normally lasted 2hrs +, with briefing ,walk around check,flight of one hour and de-briefing.
I wanted to do it as quickly as poss ,but that is how long it took.
The weather is the problem,but it can be in the summer!
It took me 53 hrs total,so you could work out the actual lessons flown against possible ones if all was perfect.
Good luck.

[omcaree]

It took me from Jan - Jun back in 2003, so it is possible to do in 6 months. I mostly had 2 lessons a week (Sat morning and Sat Afternoon) with the occasional Sunday/mid week lesson to make up for cancellations.
As others have said it comes down to how flexible you can be in taking lessons at short notice when you get a nice days weather. It also depends on your school/instructor(s). I had to delay my first solo flight for a week because of weather (wind approaching xwind limit), but rather than cancel the lessons I had booked my instructor took me off to do some basic navigation stuff. Then had the weather close in when waiting to do my QXC, as a result I got most of my test revision out of the way before the QXC.
But I know of people at other schools who had lessons cancelled because the weather wasn't suitable for the flight that was planned, despite being suitable for something else which would be just as valuable.

[G CEXO]

Thanks for all your replys guys :ok: much appreciated and will stick into my head for the duration of the course.

I took AGK today and passed with 90%. I'm pleased with that result and now with Air Law and AGK done, its the dreading met next :}

I have also decided to take 3 weeks off work in february to take into account the cancelled lessons I may have due to weather.

Thanks again everyone, and hope to see you in the sky pretty soon :)

G-XO

[BackPacker]

Winter is good flying weather in Florida. Have you considered doing your PPL there?

Oh, and if you're going ATPL, you need to know that any ICAO compliant PPL is sufficient entry for the JAA CPL. It doesn't have to be a JAA PPL, might be an FAA PPL too. That broadens the options somewhat.

[G CEXO]

Blackpacker,

I have looked into flying in the States. However, alot of UK flying schools advise not to as the students then require alot more training to get to CPL standard.

Also the airspace is very different compaired to UK airspace. I would have loved to do it in the States but, unfortunately the cons out weight the pros.

Hour building is a possiblity, unless its a long application / visa process and confusing FAA checkrides :ugh::ugh:

We shall see cross that bridge as and when we get to it. :ok:

G-XO

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi G-CEXO,

I suspect these UK flying schools are conning you for purely business reasons. Remember, a lot of them resent students going abroad instead of swelling their coffers.

And don't let anybody tell you you need a JAA PPL to commence ATPL training. At PPL level it doesn't matter which country's PPL you have as long as it is a licence from an ICAO country.

Even if you learn in the UK, you will still require a good deal of extra training to get to CPL standard. The US PPL standard is not a lower standard, quite the reverse.

Hoping to do the PPL by next March in the UK is chancey for all the reasons already given, unless you go full time to a flying school like Atlantic Fligh Training in Coventry that caters specifically for those proceeding to professional licences. And that would be expensive.

To be certain, I would definitely go to the USA.

Well that's my two penny worth.

Broomstick.

[PompeyPaul]

I started my PPL in late November (i.e. last day) 2006, completing early August (2nd?) 2007. I flew once or twice a week, but did take a week off work and flew every day for 9 days. I reckon if you went full time (there are full time FTOs out there) you could get it done in the UK easily in that time. Unless, of course, you really have no aptitude for flying and struggle.

Also my log book shows quite clearly that, personally over the 2 years I've been flying, I get more flying done in the winter, than I do in the summer. That is just what I've experienced though, individual results may vary, the value of investments can go up as well as down etc etc

[Islander2]

I reckon if you went full time (there are full time FTOs out there) you could get it done in the UK easily in that time.More than a few years ago, admittedly, but I took my PPL on a full-time basis in the Channel Islands (an option well worth considering). Looking at my log book, I see my first lesson was on the 25th September, and I passed the GFT a little over three weeks later on the 17th October. There were only five days in that period that I didn't fly! I cannot recall whether they were the result of weather, instructor availability or exam study. On the days I did fly, I averaged two and a quarter hours per day.

[gla-lax]

do you not need to have 150hrs before you can get on a ATPL ground school course???

[Whirlygig]

Nope! You need 150 hours before you can start the commercial flying course by which time you must also have passed the exams.

To all the pedants out there, I know it's not strictly true but to all intents and purposes .....

Cheers

Whirls

[RTN11]

Although your instructors are correct in saying the states airspace is very different, you can easily do a chunk of your hour building in the UK to make up for this fact.

[Slopey]

I'd echo the US comments. UK based schools moaning about the US instruction are usually just peeved as they're not getting the business.

I did my PPL in Florida in November one year - allowed for 5 weeks, did it in 4 and had a week hour building. For me, it was massively cheaper (£5k all in) but it does depend where you're based - in Aberdeen, at £185ph (with 20 for each landing/T&G), it was Inverness/Dundee/or US.

Came back to the UK, flew 2 hours with an instructor as a refresher - no problem. The difference in airspace/comms etc is negligible and very easy to adjust to if you're a new PPL still in the "zone".

As long as your RT is the "UK" method, and you don't start chatting about what you had for breakfast/where to go for lunch, you'll be fine (it's much more informal over there). There's also quite a bit of busy airspace depending where you go - so don't worry about people who say you'll never get experience of busy airspace - that's simply not true.

You'll also find that your flying progresses no end if you're flying every day of the week as opposed to once/twice a week.

I'd also point out that there's nowhere like the states to get you positively enthusiastic about aviation - no landing fees, loads of people doing it, a warm welcome everywhere - puts the UK with airport jobsworths, nimbys and pointless regulation to shame.

You'll wonder why you're even bothering flying back here once you've been to the US!!

[ChrisVJ]

I am with the "Do it all at once " brigade. Since I have not done it in the USA I will not comment on it beyond saying if I had yo do it again that is what I would choose.

Back in 1962 it took three weeks to get my PPL. Once you start you just don't need to let anything get in the way.

Whichever you choose, welcome to the club and good luck.

[prettygrumman]

G-CEXO Get yourself booked into the Met Office in Exeter for the 2 day Met for
Aviators course and you will whiz the met exam.:D

[G CEXO]

Alot of mixed views here. Good to hear them, especially the flying part in the states. I think I’m still going to stick with the PPL in this country as the windy, crap and unreliable UK weather will make me look forward to the hour building, hopefully fingers crossed in either Florida or Arizona.

G-CEXO Get yourself booked into the Met Office in Exeter for the 2 day Met for
Aviators course and you will whiz the met exam.

£275 + VAT........:sad: you got to be kidding me lol.

My self studying is (touch wood) going good so far even though I’m actually quite bad in the discipline side of things. It's only costing me £20 per exam and that £140 all in hopefully first time passes. So, another £300+ will just put me 2 hours flying short in my logbook :E

Its a very good course, though whether its necessary at this point in my long hard slog towards a frozen ATPL is debateable.

One thing I would like to ask is, has anyone asked their flying school to be back seated before parting any cash, just to see the standard of their instruction? I tried with Stapleford the other week and was informed they do not work in that way? :confused:

Anyways, I must get into my books now as I have taken the weekend off without the study and I feel lonely :8

G-CEXO

[bern444]

Perhaps you could run a diary here, and let us know how you get on during the winter.

[DBChopper]

One thing I would like to ask is, has anyone asked their flying school to be back seated before parting any cash, just to see the standard of their instruction? I tried with Stapleford the other week and was informed they do not work in that way?

That's a really interesting idea and a rather odd response from the flying school, if those were their words. To me, that is yet another example of the odd choices some UK flying schools seem to make. They can either:

think "here is a potential customer who could be looking at completing all his flying training with us - let's ask one of the instructors and students if they would mind him sitting in the back during a lesson. It may just clinch the deal," or
just say, "no." :ugh:

From my point of view as a student, I'd have been happy to have someone along in the back. I have taken people along on check-rides, LPCs etc (including a lad on work experience who loved it) and would be happy to do it again. From the company's point of view, perhaps they don't mind waving goodbye to thousands of pounds worth of business...

[G CEXO]

That's a really interesting idea and a rather odd response from the flying school, if those were their words. To me, that is yet another example of the odd choices some UK flying schools seem to make. They can either:
think

I actually felt stupid when I was told that it wouldnt be possible, but I remember them saying that the PPL is usually done in a 2 seater cessna so it kind of makes sense in why it wouldn't be possible.

Perhaps you could run a diary here, and let us know how you get on during the winter.

That is actually a very good idea and hopefully will give an idea to students in winter flying. I will definately write a diary, this will obviously start in October when I start flying.

I think I will make another thread as the time gets nearer. Naming it some thing like " My training diary towards a PPL in the winter"

If you guys think I could name it any better, ideas are very welcome :ok:

G-XO