How many hours to convert to Piper PA28s?

[Toujours]

I have a PPL with 60 hours and have flown C152s and C172s solely. I would like to start flying Pipers - PA28 Cherokee, (Warrior, Archer etc).

How many hours dual instruction on average do you reckon it will take one to convert to this type?

For those who have flown both these aircrafts, apart from the high/low wing difference, can you please give some advice regarding the Piper? Which do you prefer between the cessna and the piper and why?

Cheers.

[BoeingMEL]

Hi Toujours..I hope this helps. Well, all the usual rules of airmanship still apply of course but I don't think you'll have any problems. If you are current I think a couple of hours instuction/supervision should be more than enough.

As usual, get to know the systems and numbers intimately. Also note that the Piper's flaps are mechanical and that fuel in the tanks can never reach the carb by gravity alone! Be careful with weight/balance calcs especially on Cadet/140 series and (at this stage) avoid those Piper singles w:ok:ith VP prop and retractable gear. (Nothing wrong with them but 1 step at a time!)

Enjoy!
bm

[S-Works]

It should take you about 30-40 minutes. Legally you can jump in one and fly it as you have an SEP rating. However some time with an Instructor and the POH will prove valuable.

I prefer the Cessna and own one, I also fly a Malibu which is just a big Piper! I also teach in PA28's on a regular basis.

There is very little difference in flying them or handling them as they are certified aircraft and designed to operate in a specific envelope.

Cessna has better ground viz and generally better short field and rough strip handling, the bigger engine Cessna's like mine have better load carrying.

Otherwise easy, just go and do it!

[BEagle]

One hour, dual to solo was all I needed back in 1969 when I converted to the Cherokee 140 having only a few hours on gliders and 35 hours on the Cessna 150 before then - and I hadn't flown at all for nearly a year when I did so. Allow a bit more time if you choose to convert to a wobbly-prop version.

There is more space in the PA28 than in the C150, particularly in the Warrior.

The control harmony of the C150 seemed nicer, the PA28 is a little firmer on the controls in general. I was lucky enough to have done my PPL on brand-new Reims-built C150s; my experience of the US-made version was that the interior was rather flimsy and the PA28 interior is considerably more robust.

Doors on both sides can be a distinct advantage when flying with passengers!

Both have their pros and cons, but there's no obvious winner except on the grounds of operating cost - the C150 is considerably cheaper than the Warrior.

[BackPacker]

Study the POH on the ground, then one hour in the air with an instructor and a few hours solo or with another experienced pilot in non-taxing conditions and you should be fine.

I had I guess about 80 hours on Pipers when I first flew a Cessna 172. I found it comparably heavy on the controls (even though we were nowhere near MTOW), the view outside was dreadful (I'm 1.86 so my head was in the wing root) but the landing was easy. Somehow easier than the Piper - without prior practice I managed to make three near-perfect landings into a 15x700m grass strip with a 15 knot crosswind 90 degrees to the runway.

The other thing that I prefer in the Piper is manual flaps. You know the pitch change is there when you pull the lever, whereas with electric flaps the pitch change happens a few seconds after you hit the switch.

Oh, and of course the Piper, with its low wings also has low fuel tanks. So in addition to the engine driven pump there's an electric backup pump which has to be on for take-off and landing, and when you switch tanks (no "both" setting on the fuel selector).

Other than that, the difference is marginal. One door instead of two. No way to open the windows in-flight. View downwards, particularly from the rear seats, is worse. Cruise speeds, fuel consumption and the V speeds are all roughly comparable.

[dwj]

I've flown in both PA28 and C172, and I much prefer the cessnas. The main difference is the interior space - the PA28 just feels very cramped. Also the systems are simpler on the cessna - gravity fed fuel, "both" selector, no fuel pumps. This is good because it means less to go wrong from a maintenance standpoint, and less for the pilot to forget. The earlier cessnas have manual flaps which work the same as on the pa28. Also the PA28 only has a single door which I feel is a major safety issue. What happens if the aircraft ends up on its side? Will you be able to break the window or climb through the baggage door before you burn to death? And the lack of ground visibility in the pa28 is a major issue if you will be doing a lot of sightseeing flights.

The only advantage I can see for the pa28 is that they tend to be a little faster than the 172s. Also it's easier to refuel with the low wing.

[Parsnip]

After 55 mins dual followed by 3 solo circuits I was current on PA28 and hardly ever bothered with Cessnas again.Just my preference thiough eveyone has his own ideas. I like the idea of mechanical flaps over electric motors, makes me feel safer

[Mikehotel152]

Safer with mechanical flaps? Pah, who needs flaps anyway!? ;)

I'd take a 20 year old 172 over a PA28-161 of the same vintage anyday, but an Arrow is a nice aircraft :ok:

As for conversion, you'll find the numbers are all pretty much the same, but the low-wing operates slightly differently near the ground so I'd recommend an hour or two in total, to include stalls and circuits.

But 2 hours is never going to bring intimate familiarity with an aircraft's handling. 20 hours better. 200 hours much better. 2000 hours and you're obsessed and need counselling...

[Wessex Boy]

Apart from having to remember to swap fuel tanks on a regular basis, there is very little difference in handling until you get to the last couple of feet of landing.
It took me a couple of hours to stop doing a Cessna flare and to gently fly it on. The PA28 seems much more sensitive to flying the numbers on landing.

Oh and if you do a really, really good landing if you have to ask ATC if you are down yet as you can't see your own wheels:E

[UncleNobby]

Hour or two. Went up with and instructor and did PPL stuff, stalls, steep turns etc and then a few landings. Whatever pace you fell comfortable with then that's the best. If you want another few hours with an instructor than so be it. Know the POH and the big differences (fuel pump v's gravity feed). Other than that it's just another SEL plane.
I flew Cessna's (152 mostly) for the PPL, and Pipers (Warrior and Archer) since then. Prefer the Piper, something about looking out and seeing the wing below you.....!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

My experience,

1 hour C150 to Cherokee (at 25 hours TT, during PPL training.)

1 hour Cherokee to Warrior, made up mainly of circuit work nailing the approach speed to avoid float. (at 60 hours TT, after PPL training.)

The Cherokee (slab wing) and Warrior/Archer (semi tapered wing) are very similar in most respects, but the landing behaviours are different enough to warrant familiarisation..

[Final 3 Greens]

The PA28 seems much more sensitive to flying the numbers on landing.

I believe that Wessex Boy means that the Warrior is more sensitive to excess airspeed on landing. It does tend to float markedly unless the appropriate speeds are used, so effective speed control makes the aircraft much easier to land.

Personally I would not say it is any more sensitive to the effects of too little speed, in comparison to Cessna's (but obviously low and slow is not the place to be.)

I am not being pedantic here, being aware that there are wannabee's readiing this board, just wish to make clear what Wessex Boy and I already know.

[malc4d]

Yeah, going from a Cessna to a Piper single, it is easy to forget switching tanks........that switching tanks every 30 - 60 mins is a stupid idea of Pipers. Cessnas ' both ' switch is so much safer.
( I know......if you only fly a PA28 you get used to it, l fly both (and twins) and it still sometimes ' gets me '.............:ugh:

comeon Piper, spend a few bucks more and add a both position (or is there an STC for that ) ?

[Wessex Boy]

F3G, agreed, thanks, I have seen some clubs that add 5 knots or so to the approach speed to add some margin against getting too slow, but what that does is create an issue later on at touchdown where you float and float....