Ptc Irl Skills Assessment

[fegan1]

Hi Guys,

I have a place booked to complete a skills assessment course with PTC IRL In Waterford on Sept 3rd 2008. I'm worrying about it as i know i may only have one chance to impress.

There are two parts, the first is PILAPT Computer based skills test and the second is a flight assessment. I have requested information form the college but without reply.

Can anyone give me some details on the assessment parts? has anyone completed it? what kind of preperation can i do to perpare for the assessment if any.

Thanks for all your help,

Kevin

[Zyox]

I'm worrying about it as i know i may only have one chance to impress.

You poor guy :(

[G CEXO]

I have requested information from the college but without reply.

I would not hand over my hard earned cash if a training school did not reply to my questions. :=

And, just one thing, makes two of us now. Looks like they arn't interested in training Professional pilots.

Keep away, and train elsewhere. :ok:

G-XO

[drag king]

I'm worrying about it as i know i may only have one chance to impress.

Oh YOU WILL, dont worry! You will... :E

It takes a lot less than what you might think to get over that "test".

I would not hand over my hard earned cash if a training school did not reply to my questions

This is a good point already...Let's be wise now.

DK :cool:

[corsair]

Pilot assessment tests in flight schools are a racket. They are merely window dressing to lure in naive young candidates who don't realise that the real test is whether or not you have enough money to pay for it. It is an attempt to give the impression that their school only take the best students. You will of course be in that category.

At one school I know they introduced a test. When I asked why, the answer was that enquiring students or their parents would often ask for one, the other schools had one and it was the easiest money you could make.

They're not real tests, merely a sales pitch. I'm not picking on PTC here. It's the same with them all. Oxford Aviation academy do have a comprehensive two day skills test. Compare that to other so called skill tests. But even the Oxford only require it for their integrated program and frankly in my opinion it's as much to do with maintaining their reputation for producing good pilots than anything do do with your ability.

They are just a waste of money, don't bother with them, save it for the real training.

[fegan1]

Cheer's everyone for replying. You have all given me some good things to think about. I bought a few books from amazon which hopefully should give me some more good tips. Fingers crossed everything goes well.

From your replys, it seems so pointless though that i am made pay 300 Euro or £240 for a test that i really dont need to do. Apparently the college will not accept anyone who has not completed one of these "Skills Assessment Days". What an easy money earner for the college but agian pointless for the individual

[fegan1]

Don't get me wrong there is no way i'm going to rush into giving my hard cash away!

Off topic as requested, i have been based in Belfast in University for the last 4 years but now back home in Newry, Co.Down, but i'm an Armagh man through and through!

[leftbank]

I can't tell you which FTO is best but I do know that airlines, generally, prefer pilots who come through the integrated route. Saving money here and there by doing bits of training in different schools might sound good, but it doesn't impress airlines. Good FTOs defend their reputations by having a taut selection system which includes PILAPT or COMPASS or similar. Airlines know that and go with it. You can challenge the system all you like, but if you want to get in, you've got to go with it, at least until you become the CP or HoT and can make a change. If you pass the selection procedure with OAC or FTE or CTC or PTC or whatever, at least you know you should get a return on your Euros97,000 or £Sterling 70,000. If you head off down the cheapo route, you can't be sure of anything.

[KeithTo]

Ah someone else sucked in by wonders of modern marketing:ok:

Utter bull.

[clear prop!!!]

Letbank

Lets not open that old can of worms!! but...you are talking a complete and utter load of unsubstantiated CRAP!:ugh::ugh:

And I DO know that!!

[a797]

FTO assesments are garbage, all they care about is whether or not you have a cheque for around 100k in your back pocket.

You cant tell if someone has an aptitude to be a pilot or not by some ****ty computer test followed by 30 mins in a cessna. Get real, you cannot assess whether someone has an aptitude for flying or not until around 20 hours into PPL training. Which is why i always reccommend that people get a PPL first before deciding whether or not to go after a cpl/ir.

[drag king]

I can't tell you which FTO is best but I do know that airlines, generally, prefer pilots who come through the integrated route

In one word: RUBBISH!

Have you experienced both sides of the coin? Have you tried to apply to airlines with 2 different sets of CV, one as Integrated and one as Modular Trained Pilot and failed or passed in any of them?
I' ve trained in the cheapest modular way and to make matter worse I did it across the pond in the wrong time (B4 9/11) and...got 4 (four) interviews both with airlines (including FR) and GA operators. I was NEVER asked where/how I trained...:E

If you pass the selection procedure with OAC or FTE or CTC or PTC or whatever, at least you know you should get a return on your Euros97,000 or £Sterling 70,000. If you head off down the cheap route, you can't be sure of anything.

Are you trying to say that by passing an aptitude test (COMPASS is a heap of crap, IMHO...) the FTO can GUARANTEE you a job?
Again...RUBBISH. Quite often the small prints say "...MIGHT be offered a job INTERVIEW with such airline..." but getting your butt on that seat is a different story...:E

Wake up kids!

DK :cool:

[leftbank]

I'm sure you folk know best. However, believe it or not, aptitude tests have been carefully scrutinised by independent bodies and have been found to be one of the tools that can assist in the pilot selection process; written tests, psychometric analysis, group exercises and interviews are others. I know of 3 well known airlines that will only take low hours candidates from integrated course cadet programmes or from approved FTOs on the specific recommendation of the HoT. By all means get a PPL before entering professional training, it's fun and gives you some idea of your potential. Beyond that, look at the airline employment statistics for the path you next follow. If you go down the modular route, you are more likely to have to move into FI or air taxi work before being considered by an airline. There are no guarantees with an integrated course, but more people seem to get taken on by airlines from those courses than from elsewhere. Right now, there is no shortage of low hours applicants to airlines. So, airlines will pick and choose to get what they believe to be the best recruits. Nothing new there and few signs of change over the next few years, I would have thought.

[acepilotmurdock]

I have done the apt test at PTC in July and am starting the Flybe mentored pilot scheme in October. I already hold a PPL. The tests are striaght forward, and there is nothing you can really practice, you can either do them or you can't! Go on to google and put pilot apt in and you will see two or three web sites that offer similar tests to what you will be doing. www.****************** This is a good site, and just to put my two penneth in I believe that testing is a good way of seeing weather you have the ability to do the job before you hand over a serious wod of cash.
Anyway hope it helps and good luck, and i might see you there. :ok:

[potkettleblack]

Oh dear another integrated vs. modular debate. Lets try and put this one to bed as quickly as possible with a few facts.

There is only 1 major airline in the UK and Ireland that only takes low hour pilots from an integrated course. Its called BA. Every other airline has taken modular low houred students AS WELL AS integrated.

The majority of integrated students from Oxford are however NOT going to BA. They are going to FR. That means they are paying whatever an integrated course costs plus funding a 737 type rating on top.

Aer Lingus, Aer Arran, Air Southwest, BMI, FR, Thomson, Flybe (I could list them all but I can't be bothered typing) have all taken modular students over the past 5 years or so that I have been following the industry.

You can do the maths yourselves as to whether an integrated course or the modular way is cheaper or not. You can also read the thousands of threads on pprune over the years and see the myriad of different ways in which people like myself have gotten jobs.

The only advantage that I see an integrated course offers is if your heart is set on going around the Bovingdon hold. If thats the case then you will need to be in the top of your class AND be lucky enough to graduate at a time when BA are recruiting AND of course be referred by your instructors. Then there is the small matter of a few entry tests to pass.

If you have the cash to burn then feel free to throw it at an integrated course. Please don't go there (or come on here for that matter) thinking that you will be guaranteed a job because you stand no better or worse chance of getting a job than someone that has gone modular. And if you go integrated thinking that you will get BA then you must be feeling lucky in which case I would suggest buying a lottery ticket as well.

[fegan1]

Guys a few really interesting points raised but getting back to the original question, has anyone any experience of the PTC IRL assessment days?

[acepilotmurdock]

Yes me!!!!! Did you read my last post?

[acepilotmurdock]

Ahhhh you see you don't hand the cash over upfront thats the beauty of it. But thanks for the advice. :ok:

[corsair]

Fegan, I think the gist of all the comments is not to worry about the 'tests'. You will pass. Everyone does. It's not like the OAA tests or the RAF or something like that. It's more of a marketing exercise than a test.

[fegan1]

Thank you everyone for all your help, just received a load of books today from amazon on aptitude tests. Test is on Wed, should be fun!

[a797]

You dont need books. You will pass. Aptitude tests are just a nice little earner for PTC, nothing more.

On that note, how much is this little test setting you back?

[fegan1]

The PTC IRL will not allow you to embark on any course with them with out completing the skills assessment. After research i have found that the PTC IRL is one of the dearest skills assessments, lasting only a few hours. The assessment cost 299 euro or about £240 stg.

[ptcstudent]

Hello Fegan1
I am in the middle of the Pilot training course in Waterford. The skills assesment is grand. Just basic maths and hand eye coordination tests. I have set up a website with a diary of event thus far. I have completed the PPL and am in the middle of the ATPLs. I was in the same boat as you jumping into the unknown but hopefully the diary will make things clearer.

[fegan1]

Hi, I completed the assessment and apparently got a very high mark. Need to brush up on some maths though! I got offered a place on the fast track pilot program but trying to secure funding is proving quite a challenge. I'm only out of college and the only way to secure funding is by my parents guaranteeing their house against the loan, something that they simply wont do. Any advise?

[a797]

My advice, and please please consider it is this: do not go massively into debt at this time. You are aware that at the moment there are no jobs? I dont suppose PTC go into much detail about that of course, but its true. First thing to do is get your ppl, and pay as you go. Pay lesson by lesson, hour by hour...do not make any big downpayents. After you get a ppl and some hour building then consider your options, if its still what you want to do then start thinking about going somewhere to do ATPLS and then CPL/IR. Believe me never ever get taken in by the marketing drive of somewhere like PTC - Especially now with the current financial crisis around the world (ie. do not get into 100k debt), the high oil prices and airlines going bust.

Just be careful.

[oscarorange42]

Hi lads, i just thought i would give my tuppence on the skills assessment test as i am just back from mine on friday. This test is definately not a little earner for the college it is a serious test, one which the college itself puts a lot of effort into. i was in a group of 6 and only 3 of us were offered a place on the fast track course, the other 3 did not do well in the pilapt test, the sim or the interview and were told to go away, try do their ppl and then come back to the college where they would reconsider their place at ptc.
You are asked some difficult question whilst in the actual sim and some tough questions at the interview stage and i would have no hesitation in recommending anyone who is considering a career in aviation to take this test. it will put things in perspective for you.

[McNulty]

oscarorange,

are you enrolling with ptc? what are they charging now for the course out of interest?

[acepilotmurdock]

oscarorange42 you have just put your head above the parapet!!! but dont worry, I agree, PTC have had there ups and downs, but believe me are on the up.
People will be keen to slate you, as one already has. " What are the charging now?" They now fine well what they are. however If you speak to the students that have signed up and gone through the product they will tell you the same as I am. You get what you pay for....and bar the ATPL ground school, which they are trying to resolve, every thing else is top draw, and that is from someone who has gone through the system in PTC.
The results will speak for themselves. On my course......9 first time ME/CPL passes.... then the same course got 9 first time passes on the ME/IR tests. So dont worry oscarorange42 you are in safe hands.
:ok:

[McNulty]

You flying for Flybe murdock?

[SRTDub]

EI-SKC need i say more??haha

[blackred1443]

3 words spring to mind when ptc is mentioned - avoid avoid avoid

does mr edgeworth claim to have 25 years experience. 25 years of experience alright but it is aviation related!!

[corsair]

Holy ressurected thread Batman! PTC has improved apparently by all accounts. They needed to. But fair play to them they have upped their game. However it's worth pointing out again and again that they are expensive for what is a modular course. It's not integrated. They don't claim it is but I've met students from there who believed it was.:hmm:

As for the assessment, my original comments and that of others remains. The fact that not everyone 'passes' is neither here nor there. It is a marketing exercise largely. It also can be used to eliminate people who might lower the overall pass rates thus making the school look bad.

I'm also asking myself why anyone is considering starting training right now. There ain't any jobs. A lot of people have been trying to take mine of late, the pile of CVs just grows and grows, many ex PTC students too I might add. Big change from the days when I asked how many people applied for the job. 'just you' was the reply. That was last year by the way! How quickly things change.

[Halfwayback]

Fegan

Welcome to Pprune! I hope you will continue to find it helpful and informative as you progress in this industry.

However, you started this thread before you went for your skills test and I'm delighted that you have passed. You will no doubt find there are many threads here about how hard it is to obtain funding at present; please use the Search function for a quiet evening and you will be overwhelmed by the confusion that exists!

You will also have noticed how this thread is being 'hijacked' by posters bringing it to a modular / integrated discussion that rapidly flat-spins into derisory comments. It often reminds me of the old saying 'Statement, counter-statement, personal abuse, physical violence'

To prevent that inevitable progression I am closing the thread!

Good luck! PM if you want.

HWB