How many circuits before solo?

[Okavango]

I appreciate this is a bit like asking how long's a piece of string and related to student aptitude, conditions, sequence of training etc, but just to get a feel, how many circuits did you perform once you started the exercise before you went solo?

[Lister Noble]

A lot, over several hours!

[On the Spot]

Perhaps a better question is how many landings without your instructor haviing to correct or comment before you go solo ?
If he/she is smiling when leaving your aircraft then it won't be many. On the other hand if it is a serious expression then you might expect a few more.

[omcaree]

I've been trying to remember this recently (being too lazy to check my logbook!). I would say, ballpark figures, maybe 10hrs in the circuit before first solo, on average (excluding go-arounds, orbits, etc...) about 6 circuits per hour. So that's 60 circuits.
I'm prepared to be corrected, but this seems reasonable to me.
But as has been said, it's all about quality, not quantity. I'm going through it all again at the moment doing a tailwheel conversion and I've prepared myself for an indefinate number of circuits! On any given circuit I'm getting at least one thing wrong, nearly always including the landing. As a result I'm getting comments from my instructor on a regular basis (though only one major correction so far!) and so I accept that soloing is a way off yet.

[PompeyPaul]

I'm prepared to be corrected
Don't worry. On this website, you can be pretty much garaunteed of that in record time.

[Lister Noble]

Can't remember exactly but around 18 hrs total flying before solo.
There's no rush,so enjoy it.

There are a few pratts on this forum but I imagine there are on other ones.;);)
There are also a vast number of experienced ones here ,that give us all valuable advice!
It might pay you to look at an old thread called Zero to 45 by Mazzy.
I'm sure that's not the right name but someone will post it here.
Lister:)

[bjornhall]

That really varies a lot... From when I started doing the pattern in earnest I needed four dual lessons before soloing, 26 circuits all in all. But then I already had 13 hours and 25 landings when I started the pattern excercises... I have seen many people at my school needing much more than that (and ending up successfully obtaining their PPL!), and a few who needed way less...

[airborne_artist]

Upwards of five hours in the circuit, at 6/hr, so 30 minimum.

[S-Works]

enough to go solo.....

[batninth]

Lots of circuits over about 17 or 18 hours. Partly due to weather, I got a lot of experience of various conditions, and partly due to my ineptitude.

From that I would agree with Lister and say don't be in too much of a rush. Make the most of the different conditions and the fact you get to experience them with the instuctor.

[Rightbase]

I suppose if everything always goes to plan it might take forever! I met all sorts of situations at the busy airfield I trained at, and I wasn't ready until I felt that I knew pretty well how to deal with anything that might arise.

And once you have gone solo, guess what you will almost certainly do for the next few lessons. In my case it was, of course, lots more circuits. Going solo just meant a better rate of climb (which changed the routine a bit), a better view out to the right, space to put things, and nobody to remind me about the things I might forget.

Oh - and counting my own touch-and-goes.

And I met a few new situations I hadn't seen with an instructor. I quite missed the company!

[foxmoth]

This really is one of those "piece of string" questions, I have known students go solo at under 5 hours (very rare), I also took over a (not yet solo) student in my early days of instructing who already had over 50 hours and must have done at least 200 circuits, he had been recommended by at least 3 instructors to pack it in but continued because he enjoyed it, I took him out of the circuit and we just had some fun then did 3 circuits at the end of each detail, he finally went solo at about 60 hours having done probably another 10-15 circuits and eventually got his PPL.:ok:

[IFMU]

I did a lot in my 23 hours to solo. Some of those circuits were memorable (read that as bad, or near disasterous), which is the stuff good learning is made of.

I still do a lot. Especially while tugging gliders. A good approach and landing is still very rewarding. A bad one is still very humbling, helps keep the ego in check.

-- IFMU

[JohnGV]

Im gonna be 1 of those prats who correct people! haha!

Bjornhall, a Circuit is a circuit. A pattern is a maneuver carried out whilst being asked to hold position. Pattern is often a word commonly misused for circuits.

I soloed after 20 hrs, they say between 15 and 20 hrs usually.

[NG_Kaptain]

12 hours on a 150. Have 19,000 now. Still remember the early ones though.:)

[Sticky Fingers]

They say it 's about fifteen to twenty hours, but then again it also depends on your instructor. I had one instructor who was keen to let me go at about twelve because he was confident that I could fly but he retired [instructed for twenty years] before I got there . My next instructor was a lot less experienced and therefore less confident in his own decisions, so with him making the decision I went at seventeen hours.

I do however recommend saying ALL your checks out so the instructor can hear them, that way he/she will know that you know whats going on and let you up solo maybe a little earlier. Just enjoy it though :ok:

[bArt2]

It took me 2 hours and 30 minutes but I have to say that I was only 16 years old so you learn faster and I had done some glider flying.

On the other hand, I know one guy that recently needed 100 hours before getting solo.

In the Air Force where I instruct, the students get 10 hours of circuit training to get solo, if they fail they get 2 extra hours, if they fail that they are out. But before starting the circuit work they get 12 hours of general flying (SLF, climb, climb, descend, turns, stall clean, stal landing configuration, SLF in other configuration, range endurance, emergency descend, steep turns)

Bart

[spittingimage]

Having checked my ancient logbook (Vol 1) I can report a total of 4.8 hrs of circuits before First Solo. At some 6-7 mins per circuit this comes to .. err .. umm .. say 45 ? Bit of a guess really.

Speaking as an (ex-)instructor, I would let them loose after they no longer scared me and demonstrated a sporting chance of return to earth without damage to anything or anyone and an appropriate level of self-confidence. This could be anything from a minimum of about 4 hours to one very determined, patient and eventually successful lady in her 60s at about 20 hours on the circuit.

I agree that, in general, the younger you are the quicker you will learn. But, cost aside, it is not a race so enjoy it. I loved doing circuits while learning and I still do after 30+ years flying.

SI

[dragqueen120]

Till your instructors happy!!! could be a million hours or could be 5, he will know when your ready.

I got solo in 3hrs 40 mins from scratch which was an oddety I supose but I do like to bring it up where ever possible:ok:like the work I do for charrrritttyyyyyy. :rolleyes:

[BristolScout]

The original poster answered his own question, there are simply too many variables to provide a definitive estimate. Consider student aptitude, instructor experience and skill, the chemistry of an individual student/instructor relationship and the permutations are endless. An important factor, of course, is continuity of training. All else being equal, someone on a full-time course, flying most days will progress more quickly than the student who only flies occasionally. The important thing to remember is that time/number of circuits to solo has little bearing on the eventual competence of the licenced pilot who emerges from the training.

[IO540]

Circuits are done under such high stress that the student learns very little about flying while doing them. So the answer can range from little to loads and loads.

They are an aviation tradition, along with the circular slide rule ;)

[blue monday]

My training was very broken that was over a 4 year period,approx 10 hrs then a year brake another 10 ish hrs 18 month brake and recovery from a smashed leg, so i could effectively say i then started again from scratch, i then went solo after 10 Hrs. so i had logged 30 hrs in over 4 years to solo, i used to be embarressed by that as it seems alot but when broken down and skill fade factered in its no so bad and i could posiblyargue i went solo in 10 hrs form when i restarted as the brake was so long.

I then went state side for 2 weeks got as far as first solo X _country, weather of all things lost me 5 days, A/C availability 2 days so never got to complete X Country qualifier or sit skills test, returned to the UK, no money left :(and haven't flown in 4.5 yrs, :{one day will eventually finnish i hope.:(

[Okavango]

Thanks all. Reason of asking was that I've been in the circuit for ~5 lessons (35circuits I think), though I'm aware that another 3hrs of solo consolidation in the circuit is needed afterward. Seems a bit of overkill to me and would far prefer to have an instructor doing those 3hrs in progressively worse conditions which to me would be better experience?

[bjornhall]

I would have been in tears if I'd had to do 3 hours in the circuit after soloing... :sad: Almost all of my 10 hours solo was x-country, 8 of them done in one go at the end of my training... Loved it! :)

Funny how different things are done in different places; seems training in Sweden is nothing like doing it in the UK...

I do enjoy pattern work now tho'; getting better at it is fun, learning to do it in the first place was a tad not so IMHO...

[hkeng]

My own experience suggested that it depends very much on the intention of the instructor. I started my ppl training about 3 years ago with a prepaid 45 hr package course.
By the time I did 43 hr total and about 140 touch and go, there was still no suggestion from the full time instructor that I could go solo . When I politely asked when I could do it, he just frown and said I needed to do the circuit and landing perfectly befor I ccould go solo. I felt, as a low hour student, I could not do perfect landing, so I discussed briefly with the CFI and he didn't seem to suggest anything else I could do. Out of despereration, I changed to a part time instructor, who was a retired gentleman, and within one and half hr flying he was happy to send me solo, and I did the best landing I've ever had. The full time instructor left for an airline job soon after.
Hope my experience contribute to the discussion on this subject.

[RatherBeFlying]

When your instructor doesn't have anything to say and starts showing signs of boredom, just keep on keeping him bored.

We are not birds; so we need time to learn the perceptual clues along with the muscle motions.

[Big Pistons Forever]

As an instructor who has sent over 30 folks solo, I would like to provide my 0.02 cents.

First how long it took you to solo IMO will likely have very little bearing in how good an aviator you turn out to be. Anybody who boasts that he soloed in only X hours is IMO, a pratt as there is much more to flying an aircraft than being able to take off and land under the controlled circumstances of the first solo. I think it is important to understand that the circuit is used to learn how to take off and land. Before you get to the circuit all the esential aircraft handling skills should be there. In my experience when asked to take over students who were not progressing in the circuit I invariably found significant weakness in fundamental aircraft control skills. In all cases I stopped the circuit execises and we went to the practice area to work on the basics. Only when I was satisfied they could consistantly maintain a commanded attitude and airspeed, did we return to the circuit. The important thing IMO is that there is an improvement as you progress through your training and you have a clear understanding of what you are doing well and what is not satisfactory. If you are going around and around the airport and things are not getting better than it is important you sit down with your instructor and have a clear discussion on what he plan is to address your problems. Depending on how that goes a talk to the chief flying instructor maybe in order.

[bArt2]

I've been in the circuit for ~5 lessons (35circuits I think), though I'm aware that another 3hrs of solo consolidation in the circuit is needed afterward. Seems a bit of overkill to me and would far prefer to have an instructor doing those 3hrs in progressively worse conditions which to me would be better experience?

:bored::bored: Overkill, after 5 lessons :}:}

I have logged over 7000 landings in 13 different aircraft in my logbook and I still go for some touch and go's now and then.

As to the worse conditions, your instructor can not order the weather. If you want crosswind you may have to wait for weeks to get it.

I agree with Big Pistons Forever, basic flying skills are required before being able to fly the circuit because in the circuit you will be climbing, flying straight and level, reducing speed while maintaining altitude, configuring, descending, making drift corrections, and then finally the round-out.
No way you can do that correctly if you do not have the basic flying skills (SLF, climb, descend, trimming, attitude flying (nose position in relation to horizon))

Therefore I spend the first hours only doing these things, no circuits. Then I will introduce the circuit. The following flights I will first go to the working area for 25 minutes basic flying before going back to the circuit for 30 minutes.

This might seem a disadvantage for the student seeking to be solo ASAP, but I think it is better this way.

Bart

[JEM60]

Went solo in 4hrs. after some gliding 17 years before. Although I was probably ready for it, it came completely out of the blue, and I didn't enjoy it much, as I felt I needed more. As an earlier poster said, very sensibly, you need as many as necessary!!!!!. I also conceded at one point to my instructor that flying sometimes scared me. His reply was 'good'. When I queried why he said that, he replied 'then you will treat it with the respect it deserves'. I always felt that his remark was the best possible advice for a student, and I always flew with that in mind. You can never have too many circuits, as long as you always strive to make them better and not get complacent.

[ademeister]

As most of the folk here have already said, its whenever your intructor feels confident enough to send you on your way and when you feel ready. You'll get to the point where your circuits are almost faultless and you'll know its time!

I did 3 hours of circuits before I was allowed to go solo. Infact before I was allowed to go, I had to fly with the CFI and do a couple of circuits with him. I went solo at 13.4 hours... that was a month ago now! Just about to do my local area solo :ok:

[Okavango]

Thanks all. To give a feel to anyone else in future (though I agree with all above comments as per my original post), I went solo last night, think it was the 40th circuit. I was given the option on 30 (and felt ready, though tired) though decided to wait until the next lesson during which it wasn't possible.

[bArt2]

Congratulations Okavango. :ok:

Greetings, Bart ;)

[huv]

My little Registered Facility has soloed about 25 pilots. I think all of them except perhaps two were in the 40-100 landings interval. I see a quite strong correlation with student's age within the interval.

[WALSue]

Good thread this. I'm about to take my 6th hour of circuits and was wondering if I was taking too long to suss out what to be doing.
Getting some bounced landings and some very smooth ones, just trying to get them consistant now....oh and get that exam out the way!

[IO540]

I see a quite strong correlation with student's age within the interval.There is a formula, scarily accurate too.

Unfortunately I have forgotten it :) :)

Something like

time to solo (hours) = age (years) - 10

But the basic point is that the PPL training sausage machine's phychotic preoccupation with "going solo" is thoroughly unhealthy and wastes a lot of hours by stressing out the student through endless circuit bashing.

[Lister Noble]

Thats made me feel better!;);)
My total hours to licence ---Years -10 =53
Lister:ok:

[blue monday]

But the basic point is that the PPL training sausage machine's phychotic preoccupation with "going solo" is thoroughly unhealthy and wastes a lot of hours by stressing out the student through endless circuit bashing.

Good point - reading many post including mine there is an obsession with going solo as quickly as poss (bragging rights), but in the grand scheme of things just because you can claim to have gone solo after 3.5 HRS (who ever it was but not sure i believe him) it doesn't make you a better pilot than a 20 hr to solo or however many hours it takes for things to get in place to go solo. In fact the arrogance created could make you a worse pilot in the long run potentially.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If flying was like sex how many of you would be talking about your solo time?:E

[IO540]

If flying was like sex how many of you would be talking about your solo time?

Given the almost total lack of interesting women in GA, I would say 99% :)

[JohnGV]

GOOD POINT!
but i dunno practisin forced landings after takeoff. its a good idea to b well drilled in what to do IF it happens, but not sure its entirely necessary to actually practice. we just did a load of them on crosswind, downwind and base. but ur right, i dont think any1 shud go solo unless they no Exactly what to do IF.

Practising further for this came for me after my first solo.

[cliffnemo]

I have already described my first solo in my blog "gaining a pilots brevet in W.W 2". However some may be interested on this forum on how many hours were allowed by the R.A.F to solo in 1942/43
A total of ten hours was allowed, but this included instruction on spins. stalls, forced landings, side slipping, etc.
I managed it in nine and a half hours. I think the instructors left it to the last minute, as they considered it safer. I doubt if any of us had been in an aircraft before, very few even had a driving licence. Any one who did not solo, in under 10 hours , washed out. Those who succeeded were then accepted as pilot U/T.

Training was carried out at Marshal's flying school (civilian) Cambridge. My instructor was a R.F.C WW 1 pilot who cheerfully told me not to worry when demonstrating my first spin,saying " we now know how to recover from a spin" and that in W.W1 if they got into a spin, the only thing to do was - say, "Our Father ------". I would add, though, we had previously had seven months of lessons on, engines , airframes, navigation, signals, aerodynamics, and much more.

[batninth]

cliffnemo,

Any one who did not solo, in under 10 hours , washed out. Those who succeeded were then accepted as pilot U/T.

A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to get a ride in a Tiger Moth, and the pilot let me have the controls for much of the flight. I was commenting on how "lively" the handling was and we got into a discussion of how those brave young chaps back in the war years got to solo in their alloted 10 hours especially in an aircraft that had to be flown all the way. His view was the calibre of the trainees was much better & that they had time to be focused on getting there as opposed to us GA types who fit flying in around office life, families etc

More recently we had the pleasure of a WW2 Halifax pilot coming to speak at the flying club. I asked him for his thoughts - how did you get to fly a Moth and make it to solo in 10 hours? His view was much more stoic - "One just did it, that's that!"

Either way, you have to be full of admiration for all of those young chaps.

[Thirty06]

Seventy five landings.

Nineteen hours and five minutes of logged time.

Six hours and twenty five minutes other stuff and then exercise 12 & 13 for the rest. Mostly lousy weather kept us at the field I think.

High level, low level, EFATO, fully flapped, no flaps, go-around, glide approach, all the stuff.

Then I got allowed to go and have a go on my own.

[mad_jock]

As an ex instructor can I make a point that the question "how many circuits?"

Can be answered in the same way as how many hours to solo which is as many as you need.

Which is dependent on local conditions, instructor experence and wx and so many other variables that its it completely pointless having a willy waving or boobie jiggling competition comparing the amount.

[ShyTorque]

3 hrs 50 minutes in the circuit, with 7 hrs 50 minutes total flying.

No idea how many circuits that was, but it was over thirty five years ago. It was to a syllabus, after aptitude testing. If we didn't go solo on time, we failed the course, which tended to keep one concentrating nicely.

[digital.poet]

its it completely pointless having a willy waving or boobie jiggling competition comparing the amount.(Emphasis mine)

...Let's not be quite so hasty.... :}

[Put1992]

Could somebody explain how it's possible to solo in under 8 hours, sufficiently cover the syllabus and produce a safe solo student? Im reading things like 5 hours, 7 hours, 3 hours:confused::confused: Just doesn't make sense to me

Cheers

[PoppyPilot]

I remember reading somewhere that the average for going solo is usually half the age of the student in hours ... thus someone of 30 years might hope to go solo after 15 hour dual. Curriously it seems quite accurate when you ask around.

[digital.poet]

I guess I will contribute something a little more productive to the thread :)

Wait right there, I am just going to check my log book.... Ok, I am back...

I soloed after 25 hours total dual, 14 of those hours in the circuit doing approx 8 circuits an hour. This seems to be a little in excess of average and I will certainly be in excess of average by the time I take the skills test. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, although if I am honest it did bother me a little bit before I went solo.

I am not a 'natural' in the air. I still get fairly nervous in turbulent air and sometimes I still need a little prompting to increase the bank in turns.

In any given activity, some people are naturals and most people can list a few things that they are naturally talented at. For some people on here aviation would be on that list, but it wouldn't be on mine. I pass all my written exams with > 90% because I have a talent for theory (navigation has been the exception, but that exam has a large practical element), but in practical applications I have to push myself all the time, *nothing* comes naturally. It's ok though, I *will* qualify and I *will* be proud of myself when I do. Just because I will never play at Wimbledon does not mean I can't enjoy a game of tennis.

The PC crowd will probably get annoyed with me, as I am suggesting that somebody who takes longer to solo has less natural ability, but while there are exceptions (in cases where circumstance, like weather work against you), this probably is the case, its just nothing to be ashamed of.

How good you are at something = Natural talent x Effort x Training which means that with the exception of the elite (who will have high numbers in all three), I have the capability of being just as good as anyone else, I will just need to put in a little more effort, and undergo a little more training to get there.

Also, in respect of the military situation of the 10 hour maximum solo time, it is important to remember that not only was there the option of picking the highest natural ability candidates, but also the candidates were volunteering to take huge personal risk far beyond those of early solo flight, (and to Cliff and others like him, how ever many times you are thanked for that, it is not enough! Thank you!). Guaranteed personal safety was not a property of aviation warfare, I am certain that there have been military pilots who soloed in < 10 hours that would not have done so on a private course. The risk acceptance level is significantly different.

Just my 2 cents.

[englishal]

Took me about 25 hrs to go solo too.

That first flight solo was great! Forgot all about the silly checks, out came the digital camera and I took various self portraits from around the circuit. Next solo, during the "hour building" phase I went flying up and down Long Beach in california with the camera out enjoying the view....

Ignorance is bliss, now I find I am constantly looking for a place to land or other traffic or expecting the engine to fail at any moment....;)

[pulse1]

This thread motivated me to look at my 40 year old logbook. I originally started my PPL with about 70 hours of gliding and soloed the Tiger Moth after 2 hours 45 minutes of circuits (plus just over an initial hour covering the rest).

I gave up flying completely for 23 years (kids do that to you) with about 100 hrs total power flying.

When I took it up again I had to do the complete syllabus again and, this time, I took 2 hours 40 minutes of circuits in a C152, almost exactly the same as before. This was at a much bigger airport and circuits took somewhat longer so a lot fewer landings. This probably reflects the easier handling of the tricycle C152.

So, I would guess that 30 - 50 landings are a reasonable number to train for solo depending on the type of aircraft and runway. This would assume that basic handling is reasonably competent by then.

[ShyTorque]

Put1992,

Could somebody explain how it's possible to solo in under 8 hours, sufficiently cover the syllabus and produce a safe solo student? Im reading things like 5 hours, 7 hours, 3 hours Just doesn't make sense to me


The RAF thought it safe; they do have a fair amount of experience in these matters. BTW, the PPL syllabus was just 35 hours and included full spinning in thse days :)

[Gargleblaster]

time to solo (hours) = age (years) - 10

I went solo in 12 hours at a an age of 41. Ain't I good ?

No, I ain't. I had flown sailplanes and simulators and was generally interested in machinery, airplanes and aviation, a real geek if you like.

The thing is that with age, people get slower at learning both physically and mentally. However, it is a known fact that people are (genetically ?) different in terms of their ability to learn to control machinery like cars and airplanes. I know a person who took 100 driving lessons.

Also there's a motivation factor. A mate's wife was learning to fly at the same time as I. No luck. She wasn't really motivated, it was the mate who pressed her into it.

The odd thing is that my instructor found me capable of flying in IMC, including doing all normal maneuvers, for as long as there was gas in the tanks. I thank that the simming, and it has saved my life once. Started out with foggles where instructor after 30 mins instructed me to take them off. I did, we were in clouds and had been for 10 mins. Yes, illegal, he shouldn't have done that. Later we took a complete trip in IMC including ILS approaches. Anyhow, I strongly recommend PC simulators.

I've drifted way off the topic now....

[rata2e]

When safe, and confident. Consider you might need to orbit due to other traffic, also consider the runway might get blocked by someone else and a diversion will be required. No need to rush it, enjoy your training, enjoy the flying. Thats the whole point of the game!

[OneIn60rule]

the student can keep his/her height within 200 of the required 1000 feet downwind.

Keeps the speed ABOVE stall at all times.
When you don't have to prompt their actions or radio calls.

And when they can land it at least 3 times without making you fear death.

The landings don't have to be super smooth/soft. Just good enough not to destroy the aircraft.


If you don't feel safe sending them, just let someone else do it.

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