PDA

View Full Version : Look out on Final


Lister Noble
19th Aug 2008, 14:33
There is quite a lot of speculation re the recent accident at Coventry,and I did not want to post there.
But thinking about final,this is the time when I know my look out is compromised by concentrating on flying the aircraft.
OK the height is generally 500 feet and lower,but other craft could be in the area at the same height.
We try to keep a good lookout always but especially look to the left as we go base and at turn on final,but once on final I'm sure I could lack total awareness of a situation.
Our airstrip adjoins a large glider and GA airfield,sometimes the towed gliders are crossing our strip at below 500 feet so we certainly keep an eye out there,maybe to the detriment of other angles.
Just some thoughts on maybe one of the most accident prone areas of flying.
I would appreciate some more experienced forum input.
Lister:)

gpn01
19th Aug 2008, 18:26
I encourage all student pilots (gliders) to look in all directions but especially to look for where they're not expecting other traffic. Particularly important when you do see another aircraft to then look elsewhere to see if there's anyone else around - it's not the one that you see that's going to be the problem. Oh, and by 'look' I mean LOOK, not just glance.

2 sheds
19th Aug 2008, 19:17
gpn01

Well said. I think that you could add a couple of points. First, by explaining that in this context, "look" means "deliberately focus" rather than gazing in a general direction. Second, in a mixed traffic scenario, it is essential to appreciate at what height to look for traffic at a given range final of a precision approach.

2 s

stiknruda
20th Aug 2008, 07:55
At a DA seminar a couple of years ago there was a facsinating presentation about mid-airs. I wish that it was available to all.

In short, the circuit is the most dangerous locale. The most interesting part was the section about the Mk I Human Eyeball and its inherent failings.

Very sad week.

Human Factor
20th Aug 2008, 08:22
As has been mentioned, "Lookout" means deliberately focus. There are two problems with the human eye. One is that it is drawn to movement. An aircraft on a "constant bearing" (effectively a collision course) does not move, which makes it difficult to spot at an early stage - especially if that "constant bearing" is behind a windscreen pillar.

The second problem is that it is very difficult for the eye to focus on a point in space without a specific target, which is particularly relevant during a lookout scan. This can be overcome (trained to a certain extent) by picking a target (a cloud or a point on the ground) and consciously maintaining your focus at that distance as you move your eyes around. Otherwise your eyes will revert to a focal point outside the cockpit of around 8ft, which is less than useful. Practice is the only way to improve this.

It was also always drummed into me to have a good look up along Finals while I was on Base.

SNS3Guppy
20th Aug 2008, 10:58
Deliberately scan, rather than deliberately focus.

After a few moments of scanning for traffic, the eye reverts to a condition known as "empty field myopia," and though you don't realize it, you're only seeing about three feet in front of your face. You need to find an object at aproximately the distance you'll be scanning for traffic, refocus your eyes, and continue the scan. This is seldom taught, or properly taught...but you can look right at traffic and not see it at all, due to the fact that your eyes are focused elsewhere and you are missing what really can kill you.

A big shortcoming in the training arena (I think) is the practiceof clearing turns. A couple of turns done, and the student is deluded into thinking he has "cleared" the airspace. The truth is that clearing for traffic is a continues, unending process from which one cannot rest. One should look for traffic as though one's life depends on it. Because it does.

The time to start scanning final isn't on final. It's on the downwind, long before turning base, and that scan should never end until the aircraft is parked...same for every other aspect or phase of flight. Don't quit scanning for traffic.

I've had several encounters close enough with other aircraft to clearly see what type of sunglasses the other pilot was wearing. I've spent a fair amount of time in formation flight or intentional very close proximity to other airplanes, and that's fine...but it's not the traffic you see that hurts you. It's the traffic you don't. Never assume the aircraft you see is the only one...after all, it's really the one you don't see that's the problem. Eyes up and head on a swivel. See and avoid, because see and overcome, or see and pass through just doesn't work.

stiknruda
20th Aug 2008, 12:14
Where possible I tend to fly a curved final BUT always roll wings level prior to starting the maneouver and checking final for traffic that the lower wing has obscured.

soay
20th Aug 2008, 13:15
How does establishing and maintaining a stabilized approach, as we're trained to do, fit in with waggling your wings and flying a curved path, to improve your lookout on final? Not easily at the best of times, but with wind shear and a gusty crosswind ...

stiknruda
20th Aug 2008, 13:27
The a/c that I fly is particularly blind in a straight in final - the nose is sufficiently high at approach speed to allow a great view of the engine cowling - not the runway. Slipping it in 15 degrees off the extended centre line is the preferred option. Rolling wings level and performing a belly check ensures that you have agood chance of seeing anything on a long final.

Wind shear and gusty cross winds just add to the fun.


Stik

strake
20th Aug 2008, 13:35
If you fly in an aircraft you take certain risks that we all take steps to minimise.
On medium/short finals, depending on conditions, you're concentrating on landing. I really think that's it. Horrifying as the Coventry incident is, it is one sad landing incident amongst hundreds and thousands of completely safe ones.
My learning from this, whether it turns out to be a factor or not, is a reminder to keep a good look out in the circuit, particularly prior to turns but I don't think I'm going to change (or be able to change) the runway focus that kicks in at about 400ft.

SNS3Guppy
20th Aug 2008, 15:51
How does establishing and maintaining a stabilized approach, as we're trained to do, fit in with waggling your wings and flying a curved path, to improve your lookout on final?


Flying a stabilized approach has nothing to do with flying a straight line.

My favorite approach in an uncontrolled traffic pattern is straight-in over the numbers for an overhead approach; pass over the numbers at eight hundred or a thousand feet, and enter a continuous turn to a landing on the numbers. This gives an excellent view of the traffic pattern all the way around, as well as the runway.

If you're focusing on the runway, no matter how you approach it to land, then you're missing out on a lot of the big picture you should be seeing. Again, look for that traffic as though your life depends upon it...because it really does.

One doesn't necessarily need to see over the nose to make a safe approach and landing. If one needs to fly a downwind to final approach with a continuous turn, that's fine. Be sure that while you're doing it the wing that's up isn't blocking traffic, and you take the time to look in all the blind spots.

All the traffic in the world will eventually converge on a runway; this is THE place to have a collision. Expect it, all the time, and keep an enthusiastic lookout for traffic. Too many get in the habit of letting the radio look for traffic for them. "Any inbound traffic please advise." "Any traffic in the area, please advise." "Anybody in the pattern at XXX?" Didn't hear anybody reply...so they must not be there, right?

Tempt fate and find out. Or instead, look away from that runway frequently to scan for traffic and make sure you're not about to occupy the same space as another airplane, bird, helicopter, car, deer, moose, elk, rocket, or flying teapot. You know they're out there.

Lister Noble
20th Aug 2008, 16:24
Strake,
That was the reasom for my question.
The last 400 feet or so I am concentrating on the runway,maybe time for a quick glance but that's all.

Guppy,
Don't the miltary fly a circular type approach?
I'm not sure what it's called ,but I have heard a name for it.
Lister:)

Human Factor
20th Aug 2008, 16:27
Constant aspect.

omcaree
20th Aug 2008, 16:56
I have been in the situation where I've been cut up on final, I was passing 500ft at the time and the other guy must have been a few hundred meters ahead and maybe 50-75ft below. He had been advised that he was number 2 to me, obviously not seeing me assumed I had already passed him (I didn't see him either, until he turned in front of me, so my lookout was just as bad).
I have also been in the reciprocal situation, flying downwind, number 2 to someone flying a straight in approach, and not visual. Whether it was intentional or not, I don't know, but when I made a call confirming I copied the traffic but was not yet visual, the aircraft in question rocked his wings which instantly drew my attention and so I spotted him.
This experience highlighted to me just how much the human eye is attracted to movement. We were not on a collision course, so he would have slowly moving across my windscreen anyway. But despite looking (or was it glancing?) in the correct direction, I did not see him. Immediately upon rocking his wings I was drawn to his position.
As a result, I make a point of rocking my wings whenever I hear someone being asked to look for me, especially if I'm not yet visual with them. And these experiences, along with tragic events like we had this weekend, continue to reinforce just how important it is to keep my eyes out of the cockpit and on the horizon (and not 3ft in front of my face!).

AirScrew
21st Aug 2008, 11:31
I think this is great post, and a good suggestion.

Effectively, this is communicating with each other indirectly but through the ATC or A/G controller.

If I dont have a clear mental picture of where the other a/c are in the circuit, based on what I can see and what I can hear, then I worry.
Anything another pilot can do to help the situational awareness OF OTHERS must be a good thing.
Any a/c who was given #2 on finals, as in your post, but could NOT see an a/c ahead, should have alarm bells ringing in his/her head, and inform ATC.
Yes I know all about A, N, C, and that the approach is a high workload, but in the circuit we should still have enough bandwidth left to communicate.

My comments are specifically based on some flying experience in the USA at uncontrolled airfields which have a unicom frequency, or revert to it out of hours, where pilots call their position in the circuit, wether the circuit is empty or busy, effectively transmitting 'blind'.
I can tell you, this provides the rest of us with a truly clear picture of whats happening in, and around the circuit.

I think this is an area, and an approach, that we could learn rom and get better at, in the UK.

And for me, this puts into focus the whole question on non-radio traffic at non-ATC fields.

Fly safe all.

2 sheds
21st Aug 2008, 12:18
A small point about the above, please, AirScrew...

The operator of an A/G radio station is NOT a controller and AGCS is no form whatsoever of a control or flight information service.

2 s

IO540
21st Aug 2008, 13:21
Interesting point about flying a curved track to short final.

I've been doing this more lately and it is good fun - better than flying square circuits.

It should make traffic on a collision course more visible because the only time when traffic on a collision course is a stationary point in one's field of view is if both are flying straight tracks.

soay
21st Aug 2008, 13:45
Hmmm. When flying such a military circuit in a low wing aircraft, wouldn't the wing obscure any traffic on a straight in approach?

stiknruda
21st Aug 2008, 14:18
Belly-check SOAY, belly-check!


Stik

AirScrew
21st Aug 2008, 14:37
Hi 2 sheds.

I'm fully aware of the difference. Thats why I said OR.

And in either case, you can listen and gain a situational awareness, and wether you're reporting or responding, you have the opportunity to incorporate info to help others improve both your and their awareness.

IO540
21st Aug 2008, 14:46
When flying such a military circuit in a low wing aircraft, wouldn't the wing obscure any traffic on a straight in approach?Not unless you were really banking. If one flies a constant turn off the normal downwind leg, the rate of turn is well below rate 1. Maybe 5-10 degrees of bank, at 90-100kt.

If OTOH one was flying it from a tight-in downwind leg legitimately, for example doing a circle to land following an instrument approach to the opposite runway, then yes the bank angle will be a lot greater, but then you cannot be doing that with any traffic in the circuit because you are going to get an unpredictable conflict when you turn final. Hopefully, if the weather is bad enough for such a procedure, the circuit will be empty anyway, but this does make it difficult to practice circling approaches at the published minima. If there is anybody in the circuit you more or less have to break off "downwind" at the circuit height, and waste a lot of the practice value of flying a tight circling approach.

If one was flying a constant bank turn to final from a tight downwind leg just to look clever, then yes I agree with you (the bank angle could be 20-30 degrees) but I don't see why somebody should be doing that. It might look "military" or whatever but isn't right at a GA airfield.