Highland Flying School - Opinions?? (Merged)

[preduk]

Hi all!

I'm thinking about doing my PPL in Inverness, the costs look pretty good compared to other schools in Scotland (and the UK for that matter) does anyone have any experiences reviews of the school?

If not, any recommendations of another school (anywhere in the UK) with similar prices?

I'm also looking for a contact email for them, I've emailed their Information email but don't seem to be getting anything back.

Thanks!

P

['India-Mike]

Never been a member, but have operated out of there on several occasions. Nice aeroplanes, very nice people, great location, super weather. I always feel rather jealous once Ive been there, that they've got such a great setup.

I can't see you going wrong with them. Absolutely wonderful:)

[mark sicknote]

Agreed India Mike.

Popped in there this Summer inquiring about some 172 time. Received a very warm welcome, got a tour of the ramp and felt comfortable just hanging around and "chewing the fat". Their prices are competitive as well.

They are however very busy...

Enjoy.


Best,

Sicknote:ok:

[Slopey]

Indeed - Both the Petes are excellent guys - well worth a visit just to shoot the breeze - the kettle is always on!

I'm looking to do my IMC there later this year, and revalidated there earlier this year. :)

[Glasgow_Flyer]

I flew in a few times when I lived in Scotland - always received a great welcome and even soup and sannies!

Great airfield and fab area to fly in - I really miss it!

[preduk]

Thank you all very much for your comments. Peter got back to me today about the flying and the accommodation available, very cheap and sounds like a really nice area to fly.

[tuscan]

I did my IMC and recently a revalidation for my SEP. I have also flown about 100hrs on their aircraft.
I wont bore you with all the details and just say PERFECT IN EVERY WAY....:ok:

[Airbus319]

Hi Folks,

Just back from Inverness after completing my JAA PPL with Night and checkout on the PA28.

I just wanted to mention a big thanks to Maggie, Peter and a top team of Instructors who helped me along the way, I'm now considering doing my IMC there aswell.

I originally picked inverness because I thought I would be learning in the harshest of weather conditions but didnt really realise that it is also a busy area with a MATZ, lots of Danger areas, LARS etc.. within close reach making the learning experience more involved and a higher workload hence steeper learning curve.

I would recommend this school as a good starting block to someone like myself who is looking to go further in aviation in the near future.

[G CEXO]

Cleverly advertised me thinks. :}

G-XO

[scotavia]

the flying school at Inverness has moved..
<DIV>The building which is to be the new location for the flying school is in the final stages of preparation.It is close to the entrance to the airport and has parking adjacent. Facilities will include refreshments area, briefing room.Visitors will be welcome.

Meanwhile the school is using an office in the main terminal building, just ask at the information desk for access.The phone number used for contacting the school is still

[Say again s l o w l y]

A good bunch. Definately one of the better schools in this country.

[Mike744]

preduk, Highly recommended, you've made the right choice. Friendly efficient training with the bonus of breathtaking landscape views.

[vanHorck]

Scotavia

Please keep us informed here about the date of the opening of the new premises, internet pages updates (including a "planes page" with hourly rental rates, removal of some old premises pics, removals of references to the HAC and most importantly new pics of the new set up!

Meanwhile I wish all in Inverness Merry Xmas and great flying for 2009!

[scotavia]

Ok Van Horck thanks for your interest. With the small team doing a lot of the work themselves the preparation of the building has taken up any spare time. I will let you know when the website has been updated and I will look at including photos of the school aircraft especially as photography is my occupation !

[scotavia]

I was down at the HFS yesterday,nice flight to Aberdeen.(added another 8 castles to my photo collection)

The new location is convenient for the airport entrance, car parking outside the school building, and very close to the terminal for shops etc.

Bright neat inside the building, comfy seats ,briefing room and welcoming staff.

[gannet067]

Cannot speak highly enough of this organisation. Returned after a three month absense to find nothing has changed apart from the oh so smart new club house. What a boost to an organisation that I found to be welcoming, friendly, professional and just a great place to hang out at. Was quite amazed at the lengths folk travelled to learn to fly there lat year ! Not sure why you would want to learn to fly anywhere else !!:)

[Airbus319]

Me thinks not sir,

Was back up there flying last weekend and still loving it.

PM me if your wish and I'll give you my CAA ref no just to prove I'm not trying to advertise.

Wish I had seen thiis earlier but I've stayed off the forums during all the crazy stuff that was going on between the school and the flying club.

David.#

[ewsd02]

Glad you had a good experience, I've done some flying up there in the past. I heard there is trouble on the GA side at Inverness, something about a group breaking away and buying a PA38?

P.S I hope you get a free flight for your plug!

[Chasegood]

Hmmm - anyone else have experience at Highland? I've got them down on my short(long) list for my PPL and hours build, open to any suggestions:\

[Quarto]

Can only echo what others have said so far. All my experiences with Highland have been good.

I was wondering, has anyone tried contacting Highland Flying School by email recently.I emailed them a couple of days ago but have heard nothing back yet?

Thanks

Quarto

[ewsd02]

this will be why

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/366728-highland-flying-school-administration.html

[jim/h]

Highland Flying School ceased trading 19/03/09

sad news but posted on their office door today

[no bearde woman]

to see so many losing there hard earned money to support
those who are off to Newcastle with all your hard earned cash

they are not in administration only ceased trading so if you have money in there get hold of the police quickly
or you will lose it 01463715555

[Quarto]

this will be why

Highland Flying School in Administration?

I guess this is why I didn't get any reply to my emails. I did phone them on Monday to see about going to Inverness to do some flying. I got one of the instructors on the phone and he did check the availability of the aircraft to see if the dates I asked about were available. I guess this means that they were still taking bookings (and payments) on Monday. I feel very sorry for the people who had booked and paid for their aircraft hire.

I'm glad that I didn't book and organise a trip as it wouldn't have been a case of just driving to Inverness, there would have been flights and accommodation to pay for. Not all of which would have been refundable.

It is a shame that this has happened. As I said before all my experiences with HFS were positive and the instructors I had the opportunity to fly with were all really good. I did the IMC with Peter Brooks as well and really enjoyed his instruction.

I did notice that G-BIIT was recently place on the HFS website under aircraft sales and that made me wonder a bit. Does anyone know what will happen to the aircraft?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

everyone has who paid money in advance
Are there really people who willfully and deliberately ignore the advice given over and over and over and over again

DO NOT PAY UP FRONT

?

If so one does have a little difficulty in feeling sorry for them, I'm afraid.

[Deeday]

To me the size of the above font gives an idea of how irrational that piece of advice is. Had I followed it, now I would have been a few hundred pounds worse off. I paid £6k in advance, for my licence, and I've already used my credit almost completely.

I've already said this on another thread: there are risks and opportunities in paying upfront, just like in any other form of investment. For one club that goes bust, with all the publicity that follows (understandably), how many hundreds of thousands pounds go in and out of clubs' credit accounts without a glitch?

Why don't we stop broadcasting these rather hysterical appeals and let our brain make financial decisions, instead of our guts?

Deeday

[L'aviateur]

I agree with Deeday, paying up front can be beneficial as long as you are aware of the associated risks.

At my local flying club, I always pay upfront, usually about 1000 pounds a week (the weeks that i'm flying, not every week!) using my credit card. It saves me money, allows me to keep control of my spending on 'flying', and is simple convenient as I rent aircraft from a location which isn't permenantly manned.

So in my opinion, paying up front is something you should approach cautiously. You should never be forced to pay up front, you should use a credit card and accept the risks associated.

[gasax]

I think the 'rational' view with flying clubs is in the big print. The majority are small businesses and historically have short lives. There is almost no reliable way to get information which proves the financial stability and robustness of these companies. Companies House filings simply do not have the information and are not current enough.

Conversely experience shows that every year a significant number fail and usually take quite a number of pre-paid hours or flying vouchers with them.

So the answer is Never pay up front!

[Say again s l o w l y]

The simple fact is that if you pay upfront, you run the risk of losing the whole lot.

Flying schools are possibly the least stable businesses around.

Paying upfront is frankly mental.

When I put invoices into flying schools, there is no delay, I've seen too many of them go to the wall and take many people's money with them. I have no intention of letting mine join that horrid club.

But hey, you want to take the risk, go ahead. Personally as someone who's been around flying schools for a few years. I think you're nuts.

[NorthSouth]

gasax:I think the 'rational' view with flying clubs is in the big print. The majority are small businesses and historically have short livesIf they're schools masquerading as clubs then I agree because, as SAS says, Flying schools are possibly the least stable businesses around
But if it's a club that operates as a club (run by a committee of members etc), whatever the inefficiencies and hassles that creates (and there are many...), it's not a business trying to make a profit, so it's a different animal all together, and much less risky for a student wanting to pay in advance. But they are less likely to be offering up-front pay-in-advance discounted packages in any case, so the issue of losing your money doesn't arise!
NS

[Deeday]

Say again s l o w l y, thank you for letting me know that I'm insane. First thing tomorrow morning I'll seek professional help.

It would be interesting to add up all the discounts that you've missed out in all these years and see how it compares with the max amount of money that you could in theory have lost.

I don't know the numbers, but my impression is that this whole thing is an example of a tree falling that makes more noise than a forest growing.

Deeday

[Say again s l o w l y]

Deeday, don't mistake me for someone who pays for flying.

I've just dealt with the fallout of people losing money when schools go bust for the last 10 years.

You've been lucky, many others haven't been. I've lost count of the number of people I've met who've lost money, including some who have lost tens of thousands.

Having worked in many schools over the years, I do know how close most of them get to failure most of the time. The margins are tiny.

But hey, since you are basing your opinion based on one persons experience, what do I know.............?

[Deeday]

I've lost count of the number of people I've met who've lost money I don't question that, but have you ever kept count of all the people who have not lost any money after paying upfront? That sounds a bit like selective memory to me.
That's all I want to know. I would like to have a realistic idea of what the risk actually is, but I guess I won't get that out of this thread.

Deeday

[Say again s l o w l y]

Everyone has their own risk profiles. You might feel comfortable risking thousands of pounds, others might not.

The simple fact is, that you as a punter have absolutely no idea of how financially stable a flying school really is.

Most schools use the pay upfront schemes to make up for poor cashflow, essentially you are bolstering them for a short time. However, when the money dries up, then the inevitable happens.

I could easily give you 200 names of people who've lost money, I don't know everyone of course, but it's a sizeable number.

For me the risk just isn't worth it. Save a few hundred quid, but risk thousands.......

Nah, you're alright. I'd rather pay a few quid more per hour.

Though, if you are doing a short term scheme where you are hour building and so eating through the hours rapidly, then that is a bit different, but paying upfront for a PPL course and then doing a couple of hours a week........Utterly mental. Leave it in the bank.

You can try and convince yourself that it is worth it, but there is a reason that people like me and others who've been around a while bang on about not paying upfront.

I have nothing to gain or lose from giving that advice and hopefully some might see it and not lose money. Not everyone will of course, but the fewer who get shafted the better in my eyes.

[airborne_artist]

I would like to have a realistic idea of what the risk actually is, but I guess I won't get that out of this thread.

That will vary by flying school, for a start, and will be very hard to assess - you don't know what the school owns/owes, what is secured on a director's house, or what their bank thinks of them.

It's a gamble. You have say £6,000 to pay up front, they say you'll save perhaps £750. Can you afford to lose that £6,000, or a large part of it? What happens if you lose your medical category, temporarily or for ever?

Even if the risk is 100,000 to 1, if you are that one loser, you lose it all, not a percentage of it.

Leave lending money to banks - they are very experienced at it, after all :E

[gasax]

THe distinction between a 'proper' flying club and a busness pretending to be one is imjportant. I'm a member of the Scottish Aero Club and yes I feel any money I pay them is pretty safe. But few clubs (in fact very few clubs) actually conduct their own training (without having a contracted training provider). Of the very few that do probably the risk is much less.

But it is very difficult to unravel the relationships between who owns the aircraft, what the 'club' actually is and who/what the training ptovider is/are. In a context where punters are simpy walking in the door without any of the experience and background which many of us have acquired it is a subtlety which 99% will be unable to distinguish.

So the advice remanins as above.

[no bearde woman]

there are no winners only losers. except for the owners who were taking money from people up to the end in full knowledge that they were insolvent.

instructors wages bouncing
kids life savings up the spout
careers up in the air
all sad

hopefully all will turn around for those who have lost out !!

[madflyer26]

Dee Day,

It's fair to say that SAS has a valid point, probably amassed from years of experience dealing with students at various flying schools.

Like many others I have potentially lost 1 thousand pounds due to HFS going into administration. I never bought the ten hour package to save money it was more of an impulse buy and in the end never needed it as I subsequently bought my own aircraft.

I don't really have anything bad to say about the school itself as I converted a NPPL (M) to a NPPL (SSEP) and had a painless experience doing so. The instructors were great lads some who have moved onto bigger and better things.

The thing that thoroughly pissed me off is when I asked for my money back I was fed a crock of lies to try and postpone the time for them to give me it back. I even offered them 100 quid off the sum total as a token gesture for messing them about, little did I know it was all in Vain and I am still waiting for my money. I was even told by Maggie that the cheque was in the post, what a bear face lie that was as it never did arrive.

There has been a few sympathy post for the Brooks on another thread and whilst I don't wish them bad I still think they have been less than transparent and have deceived many of their once loyal customers. I hope I can get my money back, but if I don't it would have been a valuable lesson and one I will be passing onto future pilots.

As a footnote how long and convoluted is the process of getting your money back if you have paid by Visa debit card. Does the bank have to prove you have not flown the hours off. Advice appreciated.

Regards MF26

[Maoraigh1]

I suspect the owners are the biggest losers. I doubt they got anything out. Probably trying to keep going, until their credit is stopped. I'm lucky. I'd have lost a lot if this had happened a year ago. I know people who have lost money they cannot afford to lose, but I still feel sorry for Maggie and Peter, with two small kids, and their business gone.
My relationship with them was strictly customer to business.

[BabyBear]

Way too much emotion involved in whether the decision to pay up front is good or bad. There is no right or wrong answer, it is a risk issue and, as you all know, different folks have different attitudes to risk.

So please stop the lectures that it is wrong for everyone to pay up front, for some the risk is worth it and it is condescending and arrogant to hurl insults at those who decide to take the risk.

Think of the extra you pay by not paying up front as the cost of insuring you don’t lose your money. EG in the example given the £750 potential saving is the insurance premium to cover £6000, at 12.5% it’s a heavy insurance premium. Now, on that basis make your decision, simple really when you take the emotion out.

There are of course other steps that can be taken to minimise the risk where you are dealing with a limited company. Although the information held is not extensive and is a bit dated it can provide a flavour of the school’s standing for next to nothing.

SAS, I am sure those who choose to pay up front respect your view on not paying up front and understand your logic, so please try to respect the intelligence of others who don’t think as you do. You don’t have a monopoly on good ideas!

[Deeday]

Even if the risk is 100,000 to 1, if you are that one loser, you lose it all, not a percentage of it.

Leave lending money to banks - they are very experienced at it, after allAgain, we are letting our guts drive our wallets. If I knew the risk was 1 to 100,000 I wouldn't think twice in paying upfront all the course, in exchange for a good discount. We cannot escape risk. Do you think that money in the bank is 100% safe? Ask that woman who lost £100k of savings held in a then reputable Icelandic bank.

Admittedly, when I paid in advance for my NPPL course, I had extremely limited information on my club's finances. What I would like to see, before doing it again, is something like "out of 100 people in the UK who pay money into club's credit accounts, X lose it due to insolvency". Based on that X being 4 or 40, I would then decide if and how much to 'gamble'.

BabyBear, glad to see a few sensible voices too, in here.

Deeday

[Say again s l o w l y]

I rspect the idea that anyone can choose to lose their money if they want. As I said, the risk is yours to take, however, I personally think anyone who pays big sums upfront to a flying school, knowing that they are about as stable as Barings Bank, does need their head examined.

10 years ago, I might have been tempted, but the bitter experience of people who have lost their money has left it's mark. From youngsters who have scraped together as much as they could and then lost it all, to people having to give up on flying as a career after a commercial school went bye byes taking tens of thousands with it.

If you can deal with people like that on an almost daily basis for 10 years and not get a bit passionate about this subject, then you are one cold individual.

I've never lost a penny in this way, but I've seen a whole heap of flying schools go out of business and the fallout from it.

So you'll forgive me if I don't pay much attention to people who haven't much experience and try to base an argument on limited knowledge.

Of course not every school goes bust and not everyone who puts money "on account" loses it, but the simple fact is that you are trusting your money to people who frankly don't warrant it on many occasions.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The simple fact is, that you as a punter have absolutely no idea of how financially stable a flying school really is.
Dead easy.

If they don't offer any pay-up-front deals they're pretty stable.

If they offer a pay-up-front deal which works out at an interest rate higher than a sensible bank loan they they're dodgy as hell, because this means that they've already tried to borrow from the bank and been turned down for being too risky. If the bank won't lend them money what makes you think you're better placed to judge the risk?

The only case that isn't immediately obvious is a school which offers a very slight discount on pay-up-front deals, so that they're paying you slightly less interest than they would have to pay on a bank loan, and you're earning slightly more interest than you would earn on a bank savings account, ie the deal is set to split the bank's mark-up. That probably means they're likely to be OK, as it suggests that the bank will still lend them money if they need it.

Of course ... this is pre-credit-crunch conventional wisdom, and relies on two basic facts of financial life which may no longer be true:

(1) banks are a better judge of risk than you are

(2) banks lend at a higher rate than they borrow.

[Say again s l o w l y]

That's about right GTW!

All the schools I've worked for that I know are financially stable, haven't offered anything but very limited upfront offers.

The occasional hour building package to try and help out members on limited budgets, but not the upfront full training packages.

[XV255]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/366728-highland-flying-school-administration-4.html

This is also being debated over here

[BabyBear]

SAS, I agree with a lot of what you say and GTW makes some valid points. What I object to are the needless insults and generalistaions.

Yes there are risks, as with any transaction (I am sure you have taken some), but it is simply nonsense to say people pay up front to schools they know are in trouble, to suggest all schools are in trouble and that paying up front is never good. There are reasons other than cash flow for offering packages.

It would be much more constructive and professional to use your experience to advise of the potential pitfalls and considerations before making any payments, rather than insulting those that have done so, especially those who are feeling **** at having lost money. They don't need you, or anyone else, telling them they need their heads examined at this point in time.

Do you really think that is professional behaviour, from a so called professional?

It's not that I totally disagree with what you are saying as much as it is how you are saying it.

[mad_jock]

I must admit I have payed up front for hour building but its always had a very short period until it has been used up i.e less than a week.

The schools are just basically using you as a free loan.

Anyway its up to the individual if you can afford to loose it take the gamble if you can't don't.

[XV255]

Administrator

Mr. Darral Warwick
Armstrong Watson
Fairview House
Victoria Place
CA1 1HP
T: 01228 591000

I spoke to the airport today. They have not been told what to do with any contents of the building and have secured it for all obvious reasons, this includes training records.

I was with HFS and have around 14 hours. Now looking for another provider who can take learning credits and hopefully fly tomahawks... HAC?

[Say again s l o w l y]

SAS, I agree with a lot of what you say and GTW makes some valid points. What I object to are the needless insults and generalistaions.

Yes there are risks, as with any transaction (I am sure you have taken some), but it is simply nonsense to say people pay up front to schools they know are in trouble, to suggest all schools are in trouble and that paying up front is never good. There are reasons other than cash flow for offering packages.

It would be much more constructive and professional to use your experience to advise of the potential pitfalls and considerations before making any payments, rather than insulting those that have done so, especially those who are feeling **** at having lost money. They don't need you, or anyone else, telling them they need their heads examined at this point in time.

Do you really think that is professional behaviour, from a so called professional?

It's not that I totally disagree with what you are saying as much as it is how you are saying it.

Insults? Where?

I am using my "professionalism" by telling people not to pay upfront. This isn't a new thing and if you check out threads as far back as the day Pprune started, you'll see people giving the same advice.

People who have lost their money, I'm very sorry for, but the advice not to pay upfront has been out there as long as flying schools have existed.

Simply put, don't pay upfront, though if you are going to, then do it on your credit card.

There is no other advice that is worth a jot.

What I find amusing is that this is now a thread about how another school has gone bust (it actually caught me by surprise that, I'd always thought Highland one of the more stable schools) and that people have lost money, and yet there are still people banging on about how paying upfront might be a good idea.

What more evidence do you need?

[gasax]

Difficult to give any sort of statistics but at my local airfield since the early 1990s there have been at least 7 different 'flying clubs'. All of them went bust, most of them quietly without hundereds of creditors. One particularly however - Flight Academy Scotland - took a lot of punters and traders money with them.

To those who paid up front and saved money - try buying lottery tickets, you're obviously naturally lucky!

[mad_jock]

I think it was the "mental" comment I have upset southerners before calling them that. Very insecure about there own mental health.

I found though that they don't get upset if you call them a daft fud though. ;)

[Say again s l o w l y]

I'll try that then MJ!

[scotavia]

The Highland flying school has assets mostly in the form of aircraft. When these have been sold and the accountant has looked at the balance sheet then those who are owed money will be paid. Simple. No one is running off and hiding with a pot of money. It will of course take time to sort out.

[BabyBear]

SAS, as I said those who have lost money don't need comments like this;

Paying upfront is frankly mental.

I think you're nuts

Utterly mental

need their head examined

If you think that the use of such comments in the offering of advice is professional behaviour then your definition of professional may be questionable. And if you don't consider them insulting then maybe it's you that is, 'one cold individual'.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Well, frankly you are nuts if you pay upfront.

I'm not here to go "there, there" for people who lost money.
There is nothing I or anyone (except the asset strippers) can do about it, except to make the point that hopefully someone might read and think twice about paying upfront in the future.

If you want my professional services, then you can pay for them, if you want my opinion, you can have that for free.

Ya fud. ;)

[BabyBear]

Exactly, there is nothing you can do about it, so why come on here and insult folks that have already lost money, don't you think they already feel bad enough?

Do you think others reading your comments are going to be impressed by your professionalism and be more inclined to take your advice, or do you do it just for kicks?

[scotavia]

Check my earlier post, in the case of the Highland Flying School people are owed money, no one has actually been told they will not get a refund.This will take time, it took me 7 months to get my airfare money after the collapse of Oasis Airlines.

[Say again s l o w l y]

At what point have I actually insulted the people who lost money? My comments were aimed at rebuffing the comments made that paying upfront is actually a good idea.

I made my points bluntly admittedly, but given the fact that people are still putting money into flying clubs with no security despite the comments from people who have been around for more than 5 minutes, then how else do you make people listen?

I am sorry that people may lose money, but if the comments about HFS owning the aircraft without any debt on them are true (I have no reason to disbelieve them) then people should get their money back. If they do, then they are lucky and hopefully will learn a lesson from it, but without actually losing their money. Most people who have money on account when their school goes to the wall are not so lucky. They usually find out when they turn up for a lesson and find that the school has simply disappeared.

Flying is very unforgiving of silly mistakes, be they financial or in the air. Sometimes the lessons are harsh.

[BRL]

Get a room chaps, your points have been made, this is just going around in circles now.

I think MJ sums this kind of thing up nicely,

Anyway its up to the individual if you can afford to loose it take the gamble if you can't don't.

[L'aviateur]

Also remember; what maybe a large sum of money to one person, maybe small to another.

[fly06]

:confused:Highland Flying school are not honest buisiness people. I have been training over last 2 years and had got to know PB etc. They have taken a pyment of £150 for the hire of the Warrior 3 weeks ago for a present to be used 1 week later, only for us to be told the Warrior was stuck in Stornoway in bad weather.
Liars and theives They deserve all the sleepless nights coming to them.
I only had preskills and test to complete which was paid for. They were always very keen to take your money early.:confused:

[vanHorck]

I can't really think of people setting up a business just to scam, and keep it running for several years to then run off with a few thousands pounds of student pilot's money...

Perhaps the club got into trouble, as with all things, holes in the cheese lining up?

How about struggling anyway to make it tick, some unexpected costs due to an unexpectedly rapid change of premises combined with an economic recession?

Till a very short time ago, the school was listed as an excellent one with a great atmosphere, and the pprune forum posts are there to find if you look for them to confirm this.

Then there was a great explosion in the relation with the local flying club and they relocated.

Now they ve gone out of business. Sad for all you pilots and student pilots out there, the owners and GA in general. If their long good history is anything to go by the owners will feel shame and pain and will try to repay those who have lost money. Let's hope they find the means. Despite what no bearde woman (check her previous posts) and a one time anonymous ppruner have to say.

No one should be declared guilty before being convicted and i'd think that's quite a way off.

[madlandrover]

They have taken a pyment of £150 for the hire of the Warrior 3 weeks ago for a present to be used 1 week later, only for us to be told the Warrior was stuck in Stornoway in bad weather.

That's a bit harsh - the Highlands are definitely not a friendly place to fly light aircraft over in poor weather, and a single flight isn't worth risking someone's life for. Icing in a single is a pretty short one way street over that terrain!

[Deeday]

Difficult to give any sort of statistics but at my local airfield since the early 1990s there have been at least 7 different 'flying clubs'. All of them went bust, most of them quietly without hundereds of creditors. One particularly however - Flight Academy Scotland - took a lot of punters and traders money with them.

That raises another interesting point: flying schools and clubs may be among the most unstable businesses, but not all those ones that go bust are run by crooks who vanish together with the money. In fact it sounds like crooks are a minority, fortunately.

Deeday

[Say again s l o w l y]

They don't need to be run by Mafioso to disappear and leave people in the lurch.

I've met enough crooks in this business to make sure any cash of mine remains firmly in my pocket!

[gasax]

Out of those 7 clubs only one was run by 'a crook' and he probably inadvertently ended up being one.

But the motivation is completely irrelevant. These are people who patently cannot run businesses. They'll have a whole bunch of excuses - but at the end of it they have spent their own money and usually a bunch of other peoples'.

Now you may get lucky and catch one of these companies when things are not in a 'death spiral'. But that is simply the luck of the draw. If you want to do a mini version of Gordon Brown and 'reflate' part of the economy - pay up front. On a good day you'll get a discount, on a bad day you wave goodbye to the money.

But hey if you want to play roulette with being a secret millionaire - pay up front.

[wings on stornoway]

HI ALL,
well i would like to say that this has an effect as the school also closed on the western isles (STORNOWAY)
I Have an aircraft here in stornoway it is a challenger 2 with the rotax 582 engine and i was hoping that the instructor at the school here was going to give me lessons which now will not happen :ouch: so i am a student with the aircraft that i cant fly, so dissapointed is not the word i would use, any members on here who fly a challenger and are prepared to give me lessons at a reasonable rate i would like to hear from you or any info you have but remember i am on the isle of lewis (NICE IN THE SUMMER)

OTHERWISE LOOKS LIKE THE ONLY FLYING I WILL BE DOING IS FLY FISHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

GARY

[wings on stornoway]

The School Closed on the 19tH MARCH

(Inverness and Stornoway)

I am on stornoway with my own challenger 2 looking now for a F.Instructor as the HFS is no longer trading so i have prblems!!!

gary

[Capt_Stewart]

try the Highland aeroclub

[mad_jock]

Talk to james about the Stonaway thing.

Quite a few of the Highland FO's still have their FI tickets and they have quite a large break over lunch time. I don't have a clue if the company would let them do it or if the lesson would be counted for a sector in the FTL. Even if it does it drops the duty day by only half an hour.

Personally if there was something to do apart from sitting in the office eating potato wedges and annoying Chucky (Gillian) I would jump at the chance to go and do an hours lesson.

[fitlike]

Hi Gary sorry to hear about Highland. I've got a Challenger II, based at Longside near Peterhead. I got my ppl last year at Kinloss and am now doing some difference training on the challenger.

The way I see it you've got two choices.

1. Go abroad and get a quick ppl, then do some difference training.
2. Go and get an nppl (m) in the UK over the summer.

As far as I'm aware not many instructor about in the North of Scotland who would be willing to instruct in a challenger (no instruments in the back, lack of familarity with type etc)

I might be flying up to lewis this summer, visit my mum, so I'll give you a shout when I come up (the minch is making me sweat when I think of how wide it is) I'll ask around at Longside and Insch and see if anyone knows of an instructor who could instruct in the challenger.

IM

[wings on stornoway]

Hi Fitlike,
well if you do come up here drop me a line nice to see you! if you can get any F.Is, i will be pleased to hear from you i think either way i am having to leave the island for the training for the challenger i am trying to contact H.A.C in invervess but no reply as yet!! i will be trying a few microlight clubs i have been told of a colnel who are on oban no reply as yet to them either!!
drop me a line if you do fly up here come accross to the island from oban i think this would be your best bet!

G.

[smudger1957]

The School has ceased trading and it appears it has went into receivership, a meeting of all crediters is due to take place in Perth on the 6th of April. I am hoping that someone will takeover the School as there are loads of Pilots both in training and qualified who want to fly in Inverness.
The School had plenty of pilots under training, had the best of flying by way of the Islands Airports and stunning scenery and should have made a packet. An alternative is Moray Flying School at RAF Kinloss.

Total agreement
As a creditor, I have over £3000.00 in flying hours with the school, I will find out on the 6th of April if their is any hope of getting the money back. My beef is the same as you I have paid for hours upfront and may well lose the money.

The School if run properly could be a good business.

Your point is noted however
Who is going to pay good money to fly in bad weather, better to wait until the conditions are good for flying unless you are training to land or fly in poor conditions. It is always you the pilot who decides to fly or not. Save your money for decent weather.

Merged three posts together. Smudge', can you post in one big post not lots of individual posts?

[armyflyer]

now the HFS has ended where can a ppl hire from in the area?

is there anyone else in the area or any shares available? cessna piper etc

[tuscan]

Try Moray at Kinloss or the Aeroclub (PA38 through Leading Edge). Patience, maybe something else will come along soon. Lets hope so anyway, Im missing it already.

[Boabity]

We all got an email last night from Allan Falconer of Leading Edge titled
Flight Training Inverness
(Details to follow)

Looks like Leading Edge are going to be delivering flght training for Highland Aero Club. I'm not sure who I feel more sorry for... ;)

Good luck Leading Edge, you're going to need it!

[Squawk7143]

Will this actually happen I wonder?

Leading Edge have a great setup at Cumbernauld. I have not seen the Perth setup so I cannot comment other than to say that the whole club seem to be a happy bunch if the forum is anything to go by.

LE do have a professional and organised approach to the way they run the training and the club. I wonder how it will work at HAC if this comes to pass? How long will it take before the HAC comittee members take exception to LE's students lounging around the clubhouse and having the temerity to be in the briefing room at comittee meeting time?

After all, with the demise of HFS will it not be the very same students that HAC took exception to in the first place?

If LE do indeed become the training provider for HAC, I for one will be interested to hear about how HAC cope with a slick operation like LE who I think will not take take well to HAC's comittee dominated heirarcial approach to doing things. After all , there is no such comittee at LE!

Squawk

[tuscan]

Just a thought!!!! No doubt to fly with leading edge in Inverness we will have to pay to join the club (HAC), but will that mean we will also have to join clubs in Cumbernauld and Perth in order to fly their aircraft at these locations also???

If already a member at Cumb/Perth would I then need to join HAC?????

Does anyone know if there is a merger option?

[gla-lax]

LE will be no where as cheap an option as HFS was.

better tighten your belts if you want to fly, it will be 50% dearer with LE.

[Say again s l o w l y]

???????????

How's that? LE aren't the cheapest, but having had a small hand in the pricing structure I can assure you that there isn't exactly any fat there. LE simply charge a realistic price, something that most clubs/schools don't do.

You might think "well how's that good for me?" The simple answer is that it's good in that the club will still be there and can invest back into the facilities.

How many small flying clubs do you know that have a fully stocked pilot shop attached and a bl**dy good flight sim setup? As well as extra's such a new taildragger, aero's training, IMC etc.etc.

I'm as biased as hell, but LE is a good setup, all of us who were involved from early on had a good input into how it was formed. It's not a money making business, but a club that tries to provide what people want. It hasn't always been perfect, no-one would deny that mistakes haven't been made, but they were never swept under the carpet and lessons were learnt.

I wouldn't stick up for a school that wasn't worth it, but having worked and flown from many clubs around the country, LE are well up there and in terms of attitude, then it's hard to beat.

I just feel sorry for Allan, he's going to be up and down to Inverness like a yo-yo and knowing his work schedule, then it's going to be tough!

[Squawk7143]

say again slowly,

How's that? LE aren't the cheapest, but having had a small hand in the pricing structure I can assure you that there isn't exactly any fat there. LE simply charge a realistic price, something that most clubs/schools don't do.gla-jax just said it would not be anywhere as cheap as HFS and he is right. LE may be "realistic" as you say and there may be no fat on it ( leased aircraft perhaps?) but £150 per hour for a PA28 plus £25 per hour for an instructor ain't cheap, even with a landing card..

You also mentioned a simulator in your post, what has that got to do with the hourly rate? I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but I believe LE charge an annual membership fee then if you wish to use the simulator you pay an additional annual fee for "unlimited" simulator use subject to booking restrictions to ensure fair use. However you pay per hour for your simulator instructor on top of that ...yes?

I am not judging the sim use arrangement , just saying that the sim is not a facility paid for by your hourly rate on the aircraft. Nor for that matter is a pilot shop. By the way, HFS had a simulator at Stornoway and they also had a pilot shop.

I happen to think that Allan does a great job at LE and that LE is a great club professionally run for its members. But it is expensive , lets not kid ourselves. It may be no more or less expensive than others now that HFS have gone but that is not gla-lax's issue.

If HAC is really going to mean LE then HAC members better get used to it costing a lot more than many of them are used to. The passing of HFS was not a good thing for HAC as many ordinary members of HAC are about to find out.

Should I now reach for my flak jacket? ;)

[Say again s l o w l y]

Any business has to make sure that the total amount coming in balances the books. In any company there will be certain departments or products that make enough to subsidise the rest.

Simply put, the sim doesn't have anything to do with the hourly rate, but if there is money in the bank, then that can be used to buy new equipment or upgrade the facilities.

The sim was a huge bone of contention amongst the instructors. Especially when it came to pay.

FI's should be paid whenever they are teaching. It doesn't matter if it's in the sim or in the aircraft. It also matters not a jot if the hours are loggable or not.

What you are paying for is the knowledge and experience.

Is LE cheap? Nope. Is it stable and provide good facilities? Yes.

What's more important long term? Well equipped aircraft, stability and good facilities or paying a couple of quid less an hour?

If you knew how parlous the state of most school/club finances are, then you'd also wish for more clubs like LE.

It isn't the cheapest, but then again why do people still buy food at Marks and Spencers rather than Tesco's Value?

I know what I'd rather eat and which club I'd rather fly at.

The proof in the pricing structure is that LE is growing and HFS is gone. Harsh, but this is reality, not some utopian ideal where we could all fly brand new aircraft for £3/hr.

[Squawk7143]

Say again,

It's interesting that in spite of me stating clearly that I was not judging the simulator policy that you still felt the need to defend it !

As for growth and stability...HFS was there for about 8 years, let's see how long LE is here before we start preaching about business economics. One of the biggest causes of company failure is expanding too rapidly;)

I say good luck to LE, not my cup of tea but who knows their model may be the future. For my part I prefer the balance of the noise to be engines running rather than cash registers ringing (£5 to rent a headset anyone.... Ring a bell? ).

[Say again s l o w l y]

As do I. The simple facts of business are regularily ignored by flying schools, as shown by the constant death and rebirth of schools.

Whilst clubs tend to stay around, how many flying schools have you seen survive for more than 30 years? Not a massive number.

LE has had an interesting birth. Despite being born at an airfield where there was well established competition on one side and another new entrant that had 20x the funding on the other, LE is still going and growing. Not massively, but steadily.

The flash mob fell at the wayside taking a lot of people's money with them as I'm sure you are aware.

I know a little about business economics, from having worked in the flight training business for a long time, having a masters in aviation management and having run my own successful business in another field. Whilst there are things that happen unexpectedly, the simple truth of it is that flying clubs are unstable because few run them properly and there are too many people involved for the love of flying without enough knowledge of economics.

Passion is great, but you need to keep the books balanced as well.

Why is the light aircraft industry in such a mess? Because they are too many people cutting eachothers throats and not looking at the bigger picture.

What is your cup of tea then? Cheap but unstable and with no money for inward investment, or a non profit making organisation that charges a bit more and can actually provide good facilities?

Hmm, let me think...........

[Squawk7143]

What is your cup of tea then? Cheap but unstable and with no money for inward investment, or a non profit making organisation that charges a bit more and can actually provide good facilities?

Non profit making eh? So if they just break even how do they support the inward investment you talk about?

I understand and broadly agree with much of what you say, it isn't rocket science after all. But expensive does not necessarily mean better, nor does it necessarily mean inward investment. In my experience there are no philanthropists in aviation ( or any other business) , everyone who takes the time to run a business expects a return. Inward investment is intended to grow the business and hence increase the return. Financial management 101, businesses are not your friend, they are their to make money. My kids worked that out very quickly:) , that's ok of course, it's how the world works.

As I have said already, I think LE are a professional and friendly organisation. But please don't try to suggest that their model makes them a paragon of virtue in the aviation industry. They are a business who charge what the market is prepared to pay just like any other business. I do however question how long their market will be prepared to pay the rates they charge for a dual PPL lesson in a PA28 regardless of how well equipped it is. Having said that it certainly helps to encourage cost sharing between pilots which in turn burns more hours! So maybe it does have merits. Time will tell of course.

As for my cup of tea....I prefer coffee but not at £1.50 a cup Italian or otherwise.... ;)

[Say again s l o w l y]

I take you aren't quite understanding the point or concept of a non-profit making organisation.

Profit is made, but it is reinvested, so that the books show 0 profit.

It is an interesting model and so far seems to be working. LE is a business only in the way that it has to be organised to make sure the books balance and that there is control over what is happening.

The main problems in the flying world are that clubs are usually rife with ego's and in fighting and flying schools are walking a financial tightrope as people try to make a living out of something that is just too tight.

The model that LE uses is to try and blend the best bits of both systems and give people what they want.

You can fly cheaply if you want, by using some of the different packages that are available. Now these aren't your standard pay upfront things, but things like pay a higher membership fee and get the aircraft for lower rates. So, if you do enough flying, then you save a whole load. With a couple of the packages if you do more than a certain number of hours, it works out that you are actually flying at under cost price. However the more hours the club does, then the cheaper the hourly rate gets for the club.

It's a win win thing. You can get cheaper flying, but it isn't such a risk for the club or the individual.

What you are also forgetting is the difference between price and value for money. Just because something is cheap doesn't make it better, sometimes paying more is worth it.

If that wasn't the case why do people buy BMW's instead of Hyundai's, after all, they both have 4 wheels and an engine and get you from A to B.

LE has never competed on price and yet it still survives and is far healthier than the competition. Funny that. It shows that the bottom line is less important than the whole experience.

I know I'd rather pay £100/hr for comfortable, well equipped aircraft, than £90/hr for a manky old thing that I'm embarrassed to take my family up in.

[silverknapper]

SaS

You make a good point, there is a place for a quality flying club with decent aircraft, a bit better than the average flying school heaps. For this, I and many others would be prepared to pay a premium.
However upon looking at LE's website I see that they charge £120 an hour for a 152, and £150 an hour for an archer. That is not all that reasonable, the 152 price in particular. Add on £25 an hour dual, £145 an hour in a 152 is expensive.
Where will LE stand on membership fees if they affiliate to HAC? I can't help but wonder if they would be better going it alone without the aero club.

[Squawk7143]

Sas,

It sounds great, in fact it sounds like utopia, apparently run by a philathropist who does it all for nothing more than the joy of seeing others fly. Where do I sign? :)

Silvernapper,

Shhh...don't let the HAC committee hear you suggest bypassing them....:)

[Say again s l o w l y]

It's not quite utopia, if it was, we could all fly for free!

I'm afraid I have no idea of any of the details of any potential contracts. I know what we did at Perth, but how this particular situation would work, I don't think anyone knows yet. That's all to be sorted out.

It might not happen, but surely it's better for all up in Inverness that they might have access to good quality training again. The current situation is no good for anyone who actually wants to fly.

There will be a huge amount of work and the pricing structure for Inverness might be totally different than those of Cumbernauld for example. CBN isn't exactly the cheapest place to have a clubhouse, parking or anything else.

I know Allan would love to be able to punt a 152 out at £50/hr, but it just isn't possible there. Which is a real shame.

[Squawk7143]

but surely it's better for all up in Inverness that they might have access to good quality training again. The current situation is no good for anyone who actually wants to fly.



I wouldn't disagree with that :ok:

[no bearde woman]

hfs have gone down for a stack load

they have stuffed so many people to what amounts to a fortune

£176.000.00 + whatever quite a few people didn't claim for, or had their claims rejected.

anyone got there money back


not likely.

the good news is that they wont get the chance to rip everyone off again
we are watching just incase

Mod Note: Until such time as someone is convicted of a crime, keep your allegations of criminality to yourself. Alternatively, provide PPRuNe with your real details and we'll pass them on to anyone trying to track you down as part of a legal action.

[Say again s l o w l y]

£176,000..............:eek:

Where did you get those numbers from?

[no bearde woman]

close to £220.000.00
visit the highland aero club website for full figures

please note that the two houses that they own are not mentioned

nor are they going to be in the pot to help anyone out who has lost money

shafted!!!! you bet even there lawyer.

and if they think they are walking away I've got a surprise for them

see you soon

[vanHorck]

no bearde woman

I do not cease to be amazed by your viciousness...

[Say again s l o w l y]

You make some good points, but I'm having to physically hold myself back at a few of the other comments you have just made.

RAF pilot's are obviously the only "proper" pilots are they...........Uh huh. I have a feeling there might be a fair few thousand pilots around the world who disagree with you.

Some might even go so far to call you lots of names as well.

I'm just going to roll my eyes and say "typical military pilot god complex."

[no bearde woman]

just how much money did you lose ????

grammar is not a strong point admitted

but it doesnt take a brain surgen to know when so many people have been shafted
if at the end of the day if it isnt comfortable then so be it !!
however its the truth !!!!!

[mad_jock]

Some might even go so far to call you lots of names as well.


A daft fud comes to mind.

[cats_five]

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to use a spell checker either. Espeically not when there's a spell checker icon on the 'Reply to thread' box. (ABC over a tick, above the smilies)

[vanHorck]

no bearde woman

Any information here is welcome, good and bad, but why not state your case and move on in life. Your repetitive vindictive attacks on the school's owners contribute nothing further and waste space.

I'd love to hear from you on nice flying experiences, worries you have about publications or opinions on flying mags, etc.

Your position as to the now defunct school is very clear, I assure you.

[no bearde woman]

the truth is now unravelling

i wish that no one who has lost out had done so!!!

and look forward to a brighter future !!!

the facts are quite obvious, even to those who have rose tinted glasses on !!
i am looking forward to some flying in the near future
and taking up the kids for some more fun
i belive that aint far away !!!


Mod Note: Until such time as someone is convicted of a crime, keep your, as yet unproven, allegations of criminality to yourself. Alternatively, provide PPRuNe with your real details and we'll pass them on to anyone trying to track you down as part of a legal action.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Ok. I'll climb back down from the ceiling!

There is little doubt that military training is superb. Money no-object training and a strict selection process ensure that, but you have to ask whether that is necessary .

The RAF do it, because they can. They have far more applicants than available jobs and so can afford to be extremely picky.

It is a different debate to this one really, but I know a fair few civvy pilots who have vast amounts of natural talent and are frankly wasted flying a modern passenger jet really.

Anyway, it's horses for courses. I know some ex-single seater jocks who I couldn't bear to sit next to for more than 20 minutes, let alone on a busy multi-sector day. There's more to being a good pilot than stick and rudder skills.

However, I'll agree wholeheartedly that the standards of people going for flying as a career is shall we say, not as high as it could be sometimes. Not everyone can be Biggles MK2, but there do seem to be a few too many P/O Baldricks about.

Speeeelung is important and I have to say that I instantly ignore posts where there is a total lack of spelling and grammar. I just can't be bothered to waste my time.

Anyhoo, truce? ;)

[vanHorck]

It is obvious the daggers are out in Inverness. The Aero Club who used to house the school but fell out last year, leading the school to relocate on short notice has published a statement of accounts of the bankrupt school as well as a list of principal creditors, apparently following a creditors meeting

Highland Aero Club (http://www.highlandaeroclub.co.uk/)

The Aero club itself does not appear as an acknowledged creditor.

[Maoraigh1]

Over the years, a Highland Flying School PPL has been the start for a number of locally based people who have made it to airline flying. I doubt if as many would have succeeded if they had had to travel to Perth while working full time in the Inner Moray Firth area.
To go for a full time course, with no flying experience, (and giving up your current career), would be a big gamble.

[arr]

just been looking at the accounts sheet on HAC webpage. Doesn't look great guys. I have around £500 pre paid (yes I know i shouldn't have). How much, if any, am I going to see back and how do i go about finding out? Wait for administrators to write to me or should i write to them?

[no bearde woman]

have you made a claim as yet???
if not your stuffed i,m afraid.

there has been quite a few who have not claimed, or had there claims rejected. its a strange system where those who have taken your money can decide if your claim is to be allowed.

[Mike744]

Troubled flying school owes £174,000 - The Inverness Courier (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9191/Troubled_flying_school_owes__A3174,000.html)

also

Flying school?s creditors warned they will lose cash - Press & Journal (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1158365)

[vanHorck]

It sounds to me from the article and all the previous postings that the owner of the school was a good instructor and lover of aviation but a lousy entrepreneur.

another dream down the drain, sad really for all involved!

[tuscan]

Well said Van,

Ive lost out too but as a business person I too know how hard it is to keep your head above water during hard times. I doubt the Brooks would have been putting in the effort they had if there was intentions of ripping anyone off.
I feel sad that it has come to this end and will miss all those involved. I may have taken a risk with my money but thats my choice, Im not going to make a fuss about it, sometimes things just dont work out the way you want too do they??

I refer back to my previous post, must we join the Aeroclub in order to fly LE aircraft in Inverness if we are a member elsewhere ie; Cumbernauld or Perth. I know where I want to put my money in future and some will know where not.

ps: I remember the very start of LE and wish them well. I do wish I had invested during those first few months. Perhaps I will just settle for adding my bit now.

Mad Jock
Being an Aberdonian and knowing a Fud when I see one, I do wonder how many posters know what you mean:ok::ok:

[Capt_Stewart]

lets get real:mad:

The day before shutting up shop they were allegelly still trying to take money for flights that they knew would not occur.

Perhaps it went on a few MACKAYS:eek:


Not good at all.:eek:

Never pay up front.:= :ugh:

Even if an individual is covered by a credit card the cost of this comes from the rest of us in the end.:{

Who was the arse who reassured us we would get our money back?

[BabyBear]

Hey Capt., you're right re the numpties who made all sorts of silly claims (on both sides), but don't go proclaiming yourself as one of the all knowing in telling people paying up front is always a disaster, please!

As the thread develops those you refer to are becoming more apparent and showing themselves up for what they are.

This is a disaster for those who lost money and for those who were running the business, I don't know the motives of those in charge and what they may have illegally done, however I do have some experience that permits me to have an understanding of both sides, which leads me to conclude no one is happy about the outcome.

This is not a defence of the School, or of the Creditors, simply an attempt to keep emotion out of the equation and look at the facts and stop the wild speculation.

Most contributing to this thread will be commenting on situations they have no experience of and don't have what it takes to even try to make a better life for themselves.

[Squawk7143]

Babybear,

I thought this was a good post....right up to where you said....

This is ............ simply an attempt to keep emotion out of the equation......


and then added......

Most contributing to this thread......... don't have what it takes to even try to make a better life for themselves.
Nothing emotive in those comments then......?

[BabyBear]

Absolutely right Sqawk, nothing emotive, simply stating a fact!:ok:

[Squawk7143]

Babybear

nothing emotive, simply stating a fact

So you know for a fact do you that .....


Most contributing to this thread......... don't have what it takes to even try to make a better life for themselves.


That's quite a statement! Do you personally know ...most contributing to this thread...? Have you made a professional assessment of their drive and ability?

This is a wind up right? If not, then perhaps you could establish your credentials so that we can all be impressed?

[BabyBear]

Well spotted Squawk I did not intend to refer to most contributors to the thread,:eek: but to most of those stirring the sh1t on either side. Thanks for pointing that out.:ok:

Apologies to the decent folks.

[BabyBear]

There are laws governing what can and cannot be done by directors of a business they know is insolvent. Proving it is another issue of course.

[Mike744]

It's not just 'knowing' Baby Bear. Wrongful Trading is if a director knows, or ought to know that a company has no reasonable prospect of paying its debts, but continues to trade then a court can declare they are personally liable for such debts.

[BabyBear]

Indeed Mike, the point is that those attempting to claim the directors were intentionally taking funds in the knowledge they were insolvent for the purpose of running off with the money, because there could be no come back, are either simply trying to cause trouble or have zero knowledge.

[Mike744]

Agreed Baby Bear, also direct accusations without the prefix 'allegedly' could get such posters into deep trouble - I'm sure their anonymity here is no protection from the law!
Better they let the due legal process continue as nothing is ever achieved by mud throwing.

[vanHorck]

I can't wait for an Inverness flying Entrepreneur to buy the business from the administrator, invite the former owner as the COO and restart HFS from their newly redecorated offices to supply was I understand was excellent tuition but this time without asking people to pay up front and at affordable but realistic prices....

Somebody is throwing away something valuable here, if you look at the highly emotional comments made on the various threads on the HFS school...

Tuscan and others, how about it!?

[dont overfil]

I've got to say the obvious here. Just weeks ago almost everybody was singing the praises of HFS so it's reasonable to assume they were nice people to deal with and gave good tuition.
I have been involved in the operation of a flying club in the past and I must say the charge out rate at HFC seemed too good to be true. I could not see how the aircraft utilisation could be high enough to be able to offer such low prices.
Such a shame it should all end this way. The relocation was probably the last straw. I know. I've been there.
DO.