Turkish A310 incident

[FIRESYSOK]

Sounds like a job well done here:


The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=40b3462f)

[repulo]

If all is true and they didn´t screw up the electrics, this is how it should be done! Finally a crew that does not give up, but reverts to the basics of flying, saves all people on board and the ship.
There are still some pilots that don´t just push FMS buttoms but know their trade.
My full respect and congratulation to the crew.
:ok:

[carbheatout]

Was caught up in the middle of this inbound Accra.

All I can say is i'm very relieved to hear they made it down safely.

[Matt35]

As a SLF...

I would say that the Pilot was a.....................

Pilot?

Matt.

[forget]

A Turkish Airlines Airbus A310-300, flight TK1123 from Istanbul (Turkey) to Lagos (Nigeria) with 196 people on board, lost all navigation instruments and communication radios ......

Doesn't anything run off the battery?

[Xeque]

A hand held VHF and GPS would have been a blessing I would have thought. Even though I only fly VFR here in Thailand, I never leave the ground without both - just in case. :eek: Well done those Turks!! :ok:

[Romeo E.T.]

A hand held VHF and GPS would have been a blessing I would have thought

always in my flt bag

[F4F]

Romeo E.T. & Xeque
Handhelds... try those on the FDK of an A310 (or almost any airliner if that matters) and report here, thanks and good luck :ugh:

live 2 fly 2 live

[vapilot2004]

The fuselage is basically a Faraday cage, blocking out most radio signals. In the back, the windows are portals for EMF. Up front, the windshield blocks RF due to deposited gold or other metals in the heating elements leaving only the side windows. The small RF passageway combined with all of the EMF noise from instruments, inverters, fans etc makes for a pretty tough operating environment for a handheld. When the aircraft is powered, good luck with VHF band signals.

Best signal to noise ratio is when you are all dark in there. :ok:

[llondel]

If you've lost all the electrics then chances are it won't interfere with anything on transmit, and even if you can't receive, at least you can alert the world to the fact that you're up there in the dark and could they please turn on the lights.

Is the Herald report accurate where it implies that the lights were only on because of another aircraft movement? I know that unmanned airfields often have the lights connected to the radio system (not much use in this case, obviously) but this was a manned site.

[Airbubba]

The fuselage is basically a Faraday cage, blocking out most radio signals. In the back, the windows are portals for EMF. Up front, the windshield blocks RF due to deposited gold or other metals in the heating elements leaving only the side windows. The small RF passageway combined with all of the EMF noise from instruments, inverters, fans etc makes for a pretty tough operating environment for a handheld. When the aircraft is powered, good luck with VHF band signals.

Actually, I've seen handheld R/T's demoed by AOPA types on the flight deck on modern Boeings and Airbuses. They do work, perhaps could get you by in an emergency.

Older GPS's don't work from the flight deck of the newer planes but recent models with the SiRF III chipset seem to work fine. I carry a PDA GPS and a Microsoft USB GPS for my notebook, they are usable near the side windows. ADS-B planes have a separate GPS in the CDTI electronics, seems like you can get a latlong readout from one of the maintenance pages.

There have been previous A-310's that have lost all the screens and IRS's, usually due to equipment cooling faults. One of these was a TXL based PAA plane as I recall.

There was a massive overwater Boeing EFIS malfunction in 1996 that was finally blamed on a faulty main battery shunt:

ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 767-31AER PH-MCH Boston-Logan International Airport, MA (BOS) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19960528-0)

[golfyankeesierra]

There have been previous A-310's that have lost all the screens and IRS's, usually due to equipment cooling faults. One of these was a TXL based PAA plane as I recall.

There was a massive overwater Boeing EFIS malfunction in 1996 that was finally blamed on a faulty main battery shunt:

A320 also had at least one occurence: the BA A320 that lost all it's displays....

Edit: that (http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/formal_reports/2_2008_g_euob.cfm) one just popped up in another thread (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/338708-implied-a320-electrical-systems-issues.html) (and actually it was an '319).

[latetonite]

A handheld Garmin III GPS works well next to the window of L1 on the A310. Once you get locked on, you can bring it into the cockpit and receive next to your left widow. It stays there nicely as well.:ok:

[Romeo E.T.]

I almost always have my Garmin 295 on the glareshield, works perfectly, although signal strength is about 1/2 when not recieving thru the B737-300/400 windscreens.
King KX99 transciever has also been used when we had total radio failure about 5 years ago on a B727-200, reception very good, transmission range limited....acknowledged all ATC instructions with "squawk Ident" as well as transmissions, stayed within 25NM of the field and never lost communications.

[pacplyer]

We had a similar situation at night where we lost nearly everything but one iru comm vor and stby instruments. All but one of the flatpanel displays crapped out and we couldn't see each other sitting right next to each other. Billowing white clouds rolled out of the cracks. It was actually raining in the cockpit.

Problem: misfited or omitted aircond/pack waterbags. Nobody would admit who really screwed up on that one....

I heard a noise in the back and assumed it was the copilot gone to investigate.

I yelled: Patrick! Get up here! I'm going to need your help on this!

In a very quiet voice he said: "Pac, I'm right here next to you...."

One IRU stayed working with one pfd, otherwise it would have been grim.

I say: Well done turks! :D

[rmac]

Suspect that there are now two more pilots that will fly with a handheld GPS in their flight bags on the offchance that they might get a signal !

Gutsy choice, staying offshore to avoid issues with terrain and obstacles while engaged in a bit of night VFR at low level till they got a clear shot at a set of runway lights. Hoping the local ATC were on their game with the radar (and that it wasn't U/S) so they wouldn't bump in to any other user of the runway lights while not transponding or receiving (no TCAS), and if the story is true about not knowing where they landed, taking a bit of a punt on the runway length by visual assessment of the lights at night. Of course, this being Africa, you could also throw in the possibility of being shot at !

Probably best option available, many TK pilots ex-military, wonder how some of the career button pushers and dedicated SOP slaves would have approached this one ?

[yokebearer]

Local ATC very seldom have working radar in West Africa. Its all procedural. These guys did well.

[Albatros37]

Many congratulations and a standing ovation to the Turkish crew.
Many many thanks also to the Kenya 513 crew : they were helping the Turkish all the time, giving information about the area, suggesting vectors, giving weather info, relaying between the 1123 and Accra control, asking other aircraft to not congest the frequency, since all new contacting a/c were not aware of the situation.
My question is : since Accra has a radar, why not giving vectors to the Turkish ? Why not informing him about his position ? The only interest of the controller seems to be "souls on board and fuel remaining ?" !!!
Another enormity : as soon as the a/c landed in Lome, on top of all what happened in the air, the pilots had been given a roasting by the Lome controller :
he started shouting on the freq : WHY HAVE YOU LANDED WITHOUT CONTACTING ME AND WITHOUT ASKING FOR A CLEARANCE ???
No comment !

[criss]

Albatros37, it doesn't add up.

[Checkboard]

If the radio was working well enough to talk to another aircrew, why weren't they talking to ATC??

[forget]

Albatros37, it doesn't add up.

If the radio was working well enough to talk to another aircrew, why weren't they talking to ATC??

Quite. There's something very :confused::confused: about this. I'll reserve my 'standing ovation'.

[Albatros37]

The turkish crew was talking to control, but since communications were non usual, the control was asking all the time to repeat messages. When the turkish asked to flash on and off the runway lights, the controller did not understand, and the Kenya repeated the message to the controller in a different manner. Never ever the control said to other traffics he had an emergency, so a lot of a/c were reporting positions, asking for level change etc...and then congesting the frequency; and the Kenya said to all traffics : please pay attention to turkish 1123 because he has some troubles, then some a/c stopped using the frequency.
I'm not from Kenya, I was in the area hearing everything, and I just wanted to thank that guy of kenya because he was great.
What else ?

[Albatros37]

And there was another traffic (ivoire or senegal ?) who heard the discussion between the turkish pilots and the lome ATC and then explained in french to lome that turkish was in distress. At this time and ONLY at this time the guy started talking quietly...
I know that it seems unbelievable, but it is the reality in that part of the world...

[jetopa]

An incident like this could ruin your day in any part of the world. But in Africa? At night? Scary thought.

Well done, gentlemen (I assume the Turkish pilots were male)!:ok:

[Magh3]

Well just my humble opinion..I don't think you are in a position to judge the professionalism of this particular crew..

Just because they had their hands full in managing the emergency and didn't talk in your opinion in a professional way with atc doesn't make them an unprofessional crew.. aviate, navigate, communicate ever heard this one?
An accident with aeroperu comes into my mind, this crew was completely lost and I agree it's a different situation, however if the crew would not have continued over the pitch black sea the outcome might have been different and that's exactly what this crew did according to the herald.

So please don't pass your judgment on a crew who did a good job in saving the aircraft and it's passengers..

But then again who am I? I am sure you as a professional pilot would do a much better job

[pacplyer]

Just Marvelous,

A "professional" opinion from a 28 year old ground bus driver with a hand held who has two posts on pprune! :rolleyes:

Son,

When "Homo-trons" start tripping busses because some young goof left his toolkit bouncing around down in the E&E who knows what systems a pilot can loose? Who cares about talking to the tower or squawking?

It's just not important. These guys obviously had a major failure, were lost and it was all they could do to get lined up with some pavement before the fuel was exhausted. In an emergency they don't need permission from anyone to do anything.

Maybe that tower should be re-staffed with people who understand what their job is. It's not to chew out flights under distress. Since you can see everything from your hand-held, why didn't you or Atc pick up the phone and tell the local towers to quit watching HBO and look out the window for this guy?

I have no idea. I wasn't there.

.

[glorified bus driver]

magh3/pacplyer:=

Firstly i'm entitled to my opinion. Secondly, there is a lot more information which i decided not to disclose on the post. I stated my opinion; I didn't say they didn't do a good job getting the passengers to safety. Read the article again, (if you can read). It said Turkish Airlines confirmed the report as accurate. I didn't agree with it. It also said nothing was found wrong with the aircraft. And sorry old man pacplyer, age does not mean anything and like I do not know your aviation experience (and do not care), you do not know mine. It's childish comments by the likes of you, being the reason I don't put posts up. And it is a rumour forum and I happen to be too mature for you and your friends that have no life and live on this forum. Let me put you in a control tower, see how you handle it. Sorry, you happen to be a know it all, might just not make a mistake. Will chat to you again when the report surfaces. (If it does.........) Oh and as you said, you were not there. Please save the hot air. :ok:

[lexxie747]

I Was There, These Clowns Had No Idea What They Were Doing, If It Wasnt For Arikair,and The Likes Who Prompted Them What To Do, They Would Have Pranged.
Furthermore, These Great Pilots,had The Audacity To Climb And Decend Through Other Traffics Levels Without Telling Or Asking Anbody. They Were Not Listening Or Broadcasting On 121.5 Or 126.9
The Least They Could Have Done Since They Had Comms, Is To Tell Other Traffic They Had A Problem.
For Anybody Who Wasnt There, Please Refraim From Praising These Guys.
I Am Sure It Says English Proficient On Here License,something That Is Pertinently Not True.

[forget]

I Was There, These Clowns Had No Idea What They Were Doing, If It Wasnt For Arikair,and The Likes Who Prompted Them What To Do, They Would Have Pranged.

Now we're getting somewhere. A310s are perfectly well equipped without a Garmin and a hand held VHF. :)

[glorified bus driver]

Thanks lexxie747 for the confirmation:ok:. So to all you know it alls, read other credible forums on aviation and you will see what I mentioned (coupled with what lexxie747) is mentioned by other pilots (who were there). to macplyer:\, you welcome to state your age and experience or if to embarrased, pm me. you might be suprised, there are people out there with more aviation experience than you(this youngster might just be one of them). And that age on my profile is incorrect but as I said, age has nothing to do with it. Try learn a thing or two before blowing your horn on stuff you don't know. Once again, well done to the Kenyan crew and others who helped. I will maintain my opinion and irrespect of it, I am happy no life was lost.

[Doodlebug2]

And they want to make the AFI RVSM airspace from 25 September 2008 ???? What with many aircraft not transmitting on 126,90 and deficiencies in radio and radar equipment, standby for more interesting stories!:(

[Magh3]

Nobody said anything about you not being entitled to your opinion, I am going to refrain from making other comments because you are not discussing your opinion you are trying to insult people, with remarks such as if you can read etc . However as I said.. still don't think you are in a position to judge their professionalism. Why did you delete your post by the way??

Further It always strikes me how quick other airline pilot's are there to call somebody else unprofessional, CLOWNS etc. I see aircrew in the simulator for a large European company regularly and to be honest if my statistics are correct some people on pprune should not speak so full of confidence about other crew's flying skills. and believe me just because somebody speaks well English or good on the radio doesn't at all represent their flying skill or airmanship. These guys appear to have had a genuine problem and maybe it doesn't win a beauty contest but they got the job done.

[lemay]

Not knowing anyting about the A310, I find it hard to imagine that this airplane would be without any kind of nav. and comm. equipment on a separate set of batteries (be it a basic ADI and/or RMI with a VOR/LOC and GS receiver + ADF on their stby-instruments) in case of a major electrical malfunction. Doesn't the A310 have a RAT, by the way?

If they indeed had such instruments available, then there shouldn't be much praise about their 'heroic' deeds.

Because, finding their way to an adequate airport with such reduced or basic equipment may not have been easy, but definitely possible. This should have been exactly, what they've been trained for. Hopefully, that is.

[pacplyer]

Magh3 said:
@Glorified Busdriver and lexxie747
Nobody said anything about you not being entitled to your opinion, I am going to refrain from making other comments because you are not discussing your opinion you are trying to insult people, with remarks such as if you can read etc . However as I said.. still don't think you are in a position to judge their professionalism. Why did you delete your post by the way??

Further It always strikes me how quick other airline pilot's are there to call somebody else unprofessional, CLOWNS etc. I see aircrew in the simulator for a large European company regularly and to be honest if my statistics are correct some people on pprune should not speak so full of confidence about other crew's flying skills. and believe me just because somebody speaks well English or good on the radio doesn't at all represent their flying skill or airmanship. These guys appear to have had a genuine problem and maybe it doesn't win a beauty contest but they got the job done.

Thank you for your cool head, Magh3 the lone voice of sanity on this thread. Of course, since we weren't on the flight deck and don't know the maintenance and flying history of the crew and ship, none of us can hand down a verdict of "professional" or "clown" at this stage of the event. Right? All we know is that the Captain did the right thing because they are all alive.

Please General Lemay, and other armchair aviators, if you don't have about a decade on the subject in question, let's not sit here pretend we know the airworthiness of an old A310.

You have no idea, the unreported spurious failures that go on in a poorly maintained early model. Some nights that damn ecam computer alone will go "ding ding ding" all fracking night long.... with no way to tell the damn thing that we already know capts CADC is busted for two seconds; then it is fine. Then, another hour of alarms.

If you had a flight engineer distracting you all night like that you'd fire him.

It was a good airplane; but like all things good, it had some short comings as the first glass machine in the industry. One of those was the famous: "ground checks O.K:"

"By golly captain! This FUBAR has been written up for weeks but my system download software says "Byte checks O.K." "Tell you what, I'm going to swap the CADC's again and sign this puppy off for another adventure!" :}

Note: it looks like we have some local atc folks on this thread. That's fine; and nothing wrong with stating an opinion, :) but keep in mind that calling pilots "unprofessional; clowns; etc" prior to an investigation: puts you up for cross examination by the pprune peanut gallery : you can't have any credibility on this site if you make up a screeen name [bus driver], then pull your posts and lie about how old you are. Wouldn't you agree? :8

pac

[Capt. Manuvar]

Lexxie747,
I heard about that one from pilots who were there, and there was another interesting one a few days later. MEA A330 from ACC-LOS that lost all navigation equipment and was all over the place. We were holding 1300ft above them yet we have to avoid them running into us. Luckily the wx was nice, but it still took the intervention of other aircraft around who gave them directions b4 they could find the runway and land in lagos. GPWS warnings could be heard in the background when they made atc transmissions.
What would make such high tech machines loose all ability to navigate, or is it the crew that have issues?

[glorified bus driver]

@mcaplyer and magh3

Reason for me pulling the post is because I was asked by an investigating party who confirms my details with other pilots, (who were there, not in asia), on other forums. And I will not entertain you two further more on the matter as it is evident that you two do not know what you talking about and high ranking officials out there consider my information credible along with others.

For a "know it all", amazing you claim this glass technology the first in the industry. Please get your facts right. Oh, and you not the only one with an Airbus rating "son". (If you even have one). So please don't talk about ECAM's, etc. What about the RAT?

And no need to lie about age, ask if you want. Pity you chose not to state yours and your experience on the matter. Yep, you might just go down in shame. It's people like you I had to help with in the air and search for when you came short when I was an ATC. Now i'm suppose to argue about systems of an Airbus or other aircraft (such as Boeing,,etc) with you as well. Don't believe everything you see on Flight Sim. I am not always right, but I know what I heard and experienced that evening. It's far more than you two yabber mouths can say. I rest my case.

[jetopa]

I think, Gen. Lemay's point is absolutely valid. Does the A310 have a RAT and what sort of stby. equipment for navigational purposes will be available when everything else goes down the drain?

I also think, that - no matter whether any of us here could have done much better or not - the crew successfully brought the airplane down in one piece. At night and in Africa. Thats good, isn' it?

In case any critique is justified, they most probably will be debriefed by their respective chiefpilot.

[Magh3]

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD), applicable to certain Model A310 and Model A300 B4-600, A300 B4-600R, and A300 F4-600R (collectively called A300-600) series airplanes, that requires replacement of the ejection jack on the ram air turbine (RAT). The actions specified by this AD are intended to prevent the ejection jack on the RAT from failing when the RAT is deployed at high airspeeds, leading to a loss of ability to properly restrain the movement of the RAT, possibly resulting in damage to the RAT itself and to other airplane components. In the event of an emergency, failure of the ejection jack on the RAT could also result in a reduction of hydraulic pressure or electrical power on the airplane. This action is intended to address the identified unsafe condition.


maybe the RAT didn't deploy at all?? Seems there are some problems with the RAT on the models 300 including 310

[hetfield]

Does the A310 have a RAT and what sort of stby. equipment for navigational purposes will be available when everything else goes down the drain?Yes 300/310 got a RAT, but it's only to power yellow hyd system in case of pump low pressure.

Elec backup is either with BAT and inverter (about 30 min.) or by stby generator which is driven by green hydraulic without any time limit. Most instruments on capts side will work.

regards

[pacplyer]

"glorified bus driver" said:
@mcaplyer and magh3

Reason for me pulling the post is because I was asked by an investigating party who confirms my details with other pilots, (who were there, not in asia), on other forums. And I will not entertain you two further more on the matter as it is evident that you two do not know what you talking about and high ranking officials out there consider my information credible along with others.

For a "know it all", amazing you claim this glass technology the first in the industry. Please get your facts right. Oh, and you not the only one with an Airbus rating "son". (If you even have one). So please don't talk about ECAM's, etc. What about the RAT?

And no need to lie about age, ask if you want. Pity you chose not to state yours and your experience on the matter. Yep, you might just go down in shame. It's people like you I had to help with in the air and search for when you came short when I was an ATC. Now i'm suppose to argue about systems of an Airbus or other aircraft (such as Boeing,,etc) with you as well. Don't believe everything you see on Flight Sim. I am not always right, but I know what I heard and experienced that evening. It's far more than you two yabber mouths can say. I rest my case.

"Bus driver" the other posters are right about your confusion on the "pinwheel"; the air turbine. The A310 RAT has nothing to do with an electrical failure as it is far too small to power anything significant. It is designed primarily for double engine failure flight control assist. It's real alternative purpose as hetfield tried to explain to you is to provide back up power for the yellow system hydro. But no electrical back up source will recover lost buses if that's the situation you are facing one night.

The problem "bus driver" is not your obvious lack of experience or knowledge about the airplane and crew you criticize in this emergency. The problem is your attitude. You take a combative stance to others who object to you shooting from the hip, before relevent facts are known. You know nothing about what happened on board that flight. But you want us to believe that you and your dip shidt hand held radio are beyond challenge.

If an illiterate loose cannon with no control over his emotions is the guy authorities are going to for insightful information, then no wonder the accident rate is so high in that part of the world.

[glorified bus driver]

Once again you fail to read. Must I type it out in some Eastern language for you. And the RAT reply was not to me. As it stands,nobody knows what failures they had and all is speculation. All I did was voice my opinion and the incorrect information stated. You still fail to reply to any of my comments. None the less, you lack a lot between your ears. Leave me to my opinions and you watch for a report on the incident. And in simple English for you. I was not the ATC with the incident, but flight crew who happens to have an Airbus rating along with other jets. And my opinion stands, doesn't mean i'm not happy they landed safe. Felt they could've done more. As earlier posts suggested, they will walk the red carpet and face their Chief Pilot, least they are alive. As i said, you don't know a lot more information from that night. A loss in aviation is a loss to all. Go learn to read, A B C D.............., then you can read other forums which question the ability of the crew even further. Then again, you know better and heard everything that happened from there in Asia. Regards, "pacplyer" aka ":ok:I know it all"


And with regards to the RAT, I am not familiar with the A310 so will believe what the others have posted. But on my series Airbus I am rated on, it is used for both Green and Blue Lo Lvl Hydraulics, all engine failure and is required for the Emergency Generator which in turns supplies Electrics to certain elements on the DC, AC and ESS buss.

[lexxie747]

I am not in ATC,and i will stand by my statement they were clowns ,although there was nothing to laugh about. THEY WERE ENDANGERING MY LIFE AND THAT OF OTHERS!
The fact they landed was merely a miracle.

[pacplyer]

Capt Manuver said:
Lexxie747,
I heard about that one from pilots who were there, and there was another interesting one a few days later. MEA A330 from ACC-LOS that lost all navigation equipment and was all over the place. We were holding 1300ft above them yet we have to avoid them running into us. Luckily the wx was nice, but it still took the intervention of other aircraft around who gave them directions b4 they could find the runway and land in lagos. GPWS warnings could be heard in the background when they made atc transmissions.
What would make such high tech machines loose all ability to navigate, or is it the crew that have issues?

Hmmm, got to thinking about your post here Capt Manuver. What are the chances of two "clown" crews getting lost like "glorified bus driver" and his sock puppets want us to believe in the same week in the same area?

I don't know about the A330, but the A310 was notorious for 100 mile map shifts if you left it in auto update. Most 310 drivers did not know how to disable that function since it was weird and not published well by airbus, and so flight departments relied instead on the honeywell fms update load "blackballing" known erroneous third world nav ground stations. Damnedest design in the world to not verify that the ident was good like old pilots used to do before they would trust a station! But that's how Airbus designed the thing. I once had an 18nm map shift on approach into a mountainous region. After the auto-update and cross-talk, the map showed us subterranean (inside of mountains 3000 feet higher than us!)

Needless to say, Raw data rules down low in the terminal area!

The only way enroute to disable it from grabbing a bad station and hopelessly getting you lost if a commie DME station was trying to do that to you was to take both "VNI" switches to the "VOR" position and then manually clear out stations on the update page on the fms (and it wasn't responsive; and usually took several attempts.)

If you didn't do this, any manual update that you accomplished could be over-ridden by the commie station if you weren't careful. But this knowledge was only on one small table in the manual with no text accompanying it on our books.

The above are all just my opinions only.

pac

[noelbaba]

The rescue of Turkish Airlines Flight 1123
By Simon Hradecky, created Monday, Sep 22nd 2008 15:42Z, last updated Monday, Sep 22nd 2008 15:44Z www.avherald.com
Capt. Salim M. Verjee (Photos: Salim Verjee and Kenya Airways) On August 14th 2008 a Turkish Airlines Airbus A310-300, registration TC-JDA, was performing flight TK1123 from Istanbul (Turkey) to Lagos (Nigeria) with 196 passengers, but went missing while on approach to Lagos at around 10pm Lagos local time. The airplane later landed at the airport of Lome (Togo), about 120nm (nautical miles) west of Lagos.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Togo reported the following day, that the airplane had lost all navigation instruments and communication radios, so that the commander decided to turn west along the coast knowing, that they had chances to visually find the airports of Cotonou (Benin), Lome (Togo) or Accra (Ghana). An Air France flight taking off Lome had prompted, that the runway lights at Lome were switched on, enabling the Turkish Airlines crew to see the runway. As TK1123 descended and maneouvered very low over Lome in order to not loose sight of the runway again, the tower controllers understood the airplane was in trouble. TK1123 landed safely on Lome's runway, the crew not knowing, where they had actually touched down.

Turkish Airlines confirmed the report by Togo's CAA and continued, that a maintenance crew was flown to Lome to examine the aircraft and identify the cause of the failure, but "nothing important" was found. The airplane then flew to Lagos and performed the return flight TK1124 to Istanbul with 182 passengers, arriving in Istanbul on August 16th.

After The Aviation Herald published that initial report (see also Incident: Turkish Airlines A310 near Lagos on Aug 14th 2008, failure of all navigation instruments and radios (http://avherald.com/h?article=40b3462f&opt=0)), two independent listeners on the frequency of Accra (Ghana) wanting to remain unnamed reported, that the crew of TC-JDA could be heard on Accra's frequency 130.90 MHz (VHF) until touchdown in Lome (around 90nm east of Accra), suggesting that at least one VHF radio remained available to the crew of flight TK1123. The crew was in radio contact with Accra's Air Traffic Control and several other flights, especially a Kenya Airways flight. The listeners reported the quality of transmissions as generally good (signal quality mostly between 4 and 5, occasionally down to 3 - 5 being very good and 1 being very poor), however contact between Accra and TK1123 was lost temporarily several times, presumably because TK1123 flew too low. Kenya Airways acted as a relay in these situations.

No transmissions from TK1123 were heard on the emergency frequency 121.50 MHz or the broadcast frequency 126.90 MHz.

Accra wasn't able to locate the airplane on their radar, neither as primary nor secondary target. Both Accra and Lagos have (primary) radar facilities, which are described as rather good in comparism with other locations around Africa.

Both listeners said, that the Kenya Airways crew had become very instrumental and decisive in the rescue of the Turkish Airlines Airbus A310.

Based on those listener reports The Aviation Herald contacted Kenya Airways as well as Turkish Airlines asking for interviews with the crews. Turkish Airlines responded, that they won't comment this flight at this time due to the ongoing investigation. Kenya Airways established contact and permitted The Aviation Herald to conduct an interview with their flight crew, Captain Salim M. Verjee and First Officer John Mwaura, who were piloting their Boeing 737-700 as flight KQ513 from Dakar (Senegal) via Bamako (Mali) to Nairobi (Kenya) and tuned Accra's frequency 130.90 MHz on their leg to Nairobi.

Captain Verjee told The Aviation Herald in the interview, that after joining the Accra frequency overhead NANGA (boundary in the northwest between Burkina Faso and Ghana) he heard an Egypt (?) Air asking Turkish 1123, if he was in visual meteorological conditions (VMC) at 5000 feet and if he could see the landing lights of Egypt Air at 10000 feet in VMC. "I thought, it was a little weird to hear such a conversation between two flights on an active ATC frequency. It then dawned on me after a few more exchanges, that the Turkish 1123 was unsure of his position as he had lost some critical navigation equipment and had just done a go-around in Lagos a little while ago."

Accra could not see TK1123 on their radar, neither as secondary nor primary target. During the exchanges TK1123 descended to 2000 feet to search for an airport or town.

The communication between TK1123 and Accra was hampered by other aircraft calling in e.g. asking for different flight levels, while TK1123 could be heard "piping in requesting assistance: 'Accra, please help us!'" This prompted Captain Verjee to chime in: "Can you please just keep quiet, Turkish has declared an emergency! Leave the frequency open for him!", which silenced 10 to 15 flights on that frequency.

Upon request of remaining endurance TK1123 reported, that they had fuel left for about 30 minutes. Capt. Verjee made a mental note, that it was 10 minutes past the hour, so TK1123 would run out of fuel at 40 minutes past the hour. He couldn't recall the hour though.

Capt. Verjee then suggested to Accra to have the airport fire up flares (knowing that a military base is close by the airport), suggesting that 1123 would definitely see them. "Yes, Yes, please, send the flares!" was the response from TK1123. Accra acknowledged and thanked for the suggestion. A few minutes later 1123 asked, what had happened to the flares, and commented, that they saw ships around them.

The crew of KQ513 was now pondering about where TK1123 might be about. Capt. Verjee was concerned, that his suggestions may distract or mislead TK1123, but F/O Mwaura argued, that he should go ahead as TK1123 wouldn't have a chance anyway. The information, that TK1123 saw ships around them - upon request also confirming to see water all around - convinced Capt. Verjee, that TK1123 must have been south of the coast somewhere in the vicinity of the Bight of Benin, so he suggested, that TK1123 should turn north using their standby compass and they'd soon see the lights of the coast line. TK1123 acknowledged and turned north.

KQ513 then checked, whether TK1123 would have an ADF (Automatic Direction Finder, the needle of which points towards a tuned radio station) and provided the frequency 409kHz of the Accra NDB (Non-Directional Beacon), but TK1123 responded, that their ADF had failed as well.

Time was running, F/O Mwaura looked at his clock and realised, that only 10 minutes endurance were left. "You have only 10 minutes endurance left, right?" TK1123 agreed.

Capt. Verjee suggested now, that TK1123 should prepare for ditching in close proximity to those ships before they'd run out of fuel. They'd be better off, if they did a controlled ditch with the ships being able to immediately provide assistance, rather than after engines flaming out. TK1123 acknowledged.

Time was rapidly approaching 40 minutes past the hour. Suddenly TK1123 came over the radio: "I see lights!"

TK1123 asked KQ513 to relay to Accra, that they should flash the runway lights. Accra confirmed, that they were turning their runway lights off and on, but TK1123 couldn't see the runway.

A few seconds later TK1123 "blurted out they'd seen a runway". Accra asked KQ to relay, that TK1123 was cleared to land on either runway 21 or 03, winds were 210 at 10 knots. Then the frequency was kept quiet to not distract TK1123 during their landing.

After a while, 42 minutes past the hour, Capt. Verjee asked: "1123, have you landed?" and received a "YES!"

"You have NO IDEA how my first officer nor myself felt that instant ... It was a feeling that'll remain with us forever and is something, I can't explain! IT'S A SPECIAL FEELING!" Capt. Verjee described the emotions on board of KQ513 immediately after that exchange.

Capt. Verjee relayed to Accra, that TK1123 had landed, to which the puzzled reply was "Not in Accra, they haven't!"

After a short time Accra came back asking KQ513 to tell TK1123, that they had landed in Lome and the frequency there was 120.7.

"We nearly died of laughter imagining Lome tower's surprise seeing an Airbus land without any communication whatsoever. The laughter was more of a relief over the good outcome though!" Capt. Verjee closed his account of that night.

The Aviation Herald wishes to express congratulations, respect and thanks to Captain Salim M. Verjee and First Officer John Mwaura!

[levantes]

just wondering when an official report will come out!
I have a lot of questions in my mind how they ended up this way!
My feeling and its just a feeling is they were VERY LUCKY!

[Romeo E.T.]

a more indepth investigative result published here The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=40d2752c&opt=0)

[akerosid]

Whatever about the performance of the TK crew, the KQ crew certainly deserves high praise for what turned out to be a decisive intervention; based on what I've read in the Aviation Herald, it is fair to say that without the KQ crew's intervention, the TK aircraft would have crashed.

Hopefully, Capt Verjee and FO Mwaura can/will be recognised for this - perhaps an IFALPA award?

JetPhotos.Net Photo » TC-JDA (CN: 496) Turkish Airlines Airbus A310-304 by John Fitzpatrick (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5696944)

[Tornado001]

kudos to kenya 513..we dont want to think of what could have happened without them.:ok:

[noelbaba]

I wonder why the radar not contacted, or why radar station did not hear anything on 121.5 emergency channel ?

Lagos, Abuja airports installed full radar surveillance
A full radar coverage of 160km radius was at midnight put in place at the Lagos and Abuja airports.
The radar, according to Capt. Ado Ibrahim, managing director of the Nigerian Airspace Management Agency (NAMA), unlike before is now on 24-hour coverage .
“It is a 24-hour radar coverage and will be the first time in almost 30 years that the Nigerian airspace will be covered 24 hours non-stop,’’ Ibrahim said.
The radar will aid the monitoring of aircraft from take-off to landing and also changes search and recovery to search and rescue in case of a mishap, the NAMA MD said.
The minister of state for air transportation, Olufemi Fani-Kayode, explained that prior to midnight the radar coverage of these airports had been for three to four hours.
“The radar regime was started in 1978 under the Olusegun Obasanjo military regime but was abandoned but now under the same man and his reform agenda we have finally realised the vision of a 24-hour radar coverage.
“It should also be noted that this equipment is very vital in air travel safety and security, because apart from monitoring the aircraft mid-air, it also monitors its take-off and landing which are critical periods in air travel,’’ Fani-Kayode said.
The minister also said that all the other airports in the country would soon have the same 24-hour radar coverage as well as have Track-on and Safe Tower equipment in all the nation’s airports.
“In the next few weeks we would commission the Track-on and Safe Tower equipment which would put this country among the comity of nations with safe skies,’’ the minister said.
The minister also said that the radar, apart from monitoring the aircraft would expedite traffic and ease separation of aircraft as well as reduce the risk of mid-air collision

[MaxthePax]

According to Turkish media, Captain of the TK1123 has been demoted and no longer a captain and FO has been denied a promotion for a year after THY Flight Comittee's decision.

Yolunu þaþýran pilotlara ceza (http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=10037470)

According to media and unions official's claim, experienced crew and personnel being forced to early retirement so the positions could be filled with supporters of ruling party, there have been few examples published in the media.

I have been a happy passenger of THY for a longtime, because mostly not only they serve my favourite wine, but it used to be served with a smile.Incidents reported that some crew refused to serve beverages contained alcohol. And lack of dedication of recent crew somehow supports what was claimed, yes I can get my favourite wine still but less the smile.

Majority of pilots of airliner come from military background with excellent training and discipline, resulting in being "overconfident pilots" , explained transportation minister and a training programme with Lufthansa launched to over come such issues.