Tornado off runway

[dazdaz]

BBC Five live..Tornado has left runway Newcastle airport. Latest news says a bird strike.

[TiffyFGR4]

Ohhhh I live in Newcastle, haven't heard anything about it yet though....News is on shortly, I'll keep an eye open for it, see what they say.

[gearontheglide]

On the Beeb website now.

BBC NEWS | England | Tyne | RAF Tornado jet overshoots runway (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7543846.stm)

at least they used the right picture if it was a GR4

[Ballast]

BBC NEWS | England | Tyne | RAF Tornado jet overshoots runway (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7543846.stm)

hmmm, better watch out for the "radiation from a flare"!

[of course, this post no longer makes sense as they have updated the news article - the original stated that the nearby road was closed due to radiation from a flare]

[alexmac]

'One eyewitness...described seeing "all hell break loose" as emergency vehicles raced to the scene.' :ugh:

[Cherskiy]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i190/cherskiy/IMG_3753.jpg

Took the above about an hour ago. Hope the crew walked away okay - looks like they may have taken a bird in the windscreen rather than in one of the intakes.

Graeme

[glad rag]

....are OK either nose leg has sunk or has gone lossie. Fingers crossed.

Be careful guys/gals it's time of the year (almost)

Cloudscape sunset print from a painting NEW ARRIVALS depicting migrating geese (http://www.wildlife-art-paintings.co.uk/bird-birds-animal-artist/print-prints/sunset_cloudscape.htm)

AL1 It's the pin bag sitting there :ugh: as seen from those linked pictures!

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Well, a land away, where you don't need a ladder. Good Skills. Newcastle is also a very good night out! :D

Advo

[Safeware]

after what looks like damage/ penetration to the quarter panel RH

Looks more like something left on top of the IFR probe fairing if you zoom in.

sw

[ORAC]

Hope that they ended up getting pissed at Boulmer, though the airmen rooted out of the NAAFI to guard it may not agree...

[Alber Ratman]

The airport hotel more like!! They do a good pint in there.

Airman will be pulled from Leeming?? Won't be Techies!:ok:

[NutLoose]

There are several pictures on a photo forum I frequent, see



Crash Landing (http://www.eos-forums.com/index.php?topic=23479.0)

[BTB]

:ugh:Made me divert to Teeside (closed because of another military div!) then EDI when I have a blessed court case the next day and having to land with fumes. How rude. :=

[Backwards PLT]

Well thats one way to do mud moving.

[ranger703]

Them pesky birds get everywhere!! Fly safe guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/amwaluk/ZG750.jpg

[ACARS]

I was SLF on KLM flight this morning (05:55). I thought the pilot was departing on a shortened runway. I presumed we would depart from 07 via taxiway Alpha. Instead, he used taxiway Bravo and called 'cabin crew, seats for take off'. I started to panic thinking he is going to try and take off from the bravo's! :yuk: Note - it was dense fog this morning, so I thought he had made a mistake.

Instead, he back tracked 07 and started his take off role from the numbers on 25. Could see the F3 about 50ft from the extended threshold. Taxiway Delta was closed due to vechicle traffic.

[BHenderson]

Here's a theory without any factual proof. How about a mid-air between the two aircraft?

[NutLoose]

BHendersonHere's a theory without any factual proof. How about a mid-air between the two aircraft? Today 15:01

And here is another one.. they were abducted by Aliens, only when they got the kit off the back seater to experiment on him they were appalled by what they saw, so they beamed them back to Newcastle......:8

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Maybe the crew, under cover of 'fog', quickly disguised their F3 as a GR4, using various maps / books and choccie bars to avoid embarrasment. Oh and then quickly changed their home base to Lossi, using JPA. :}

Advo

[Pezza]

Oh and then quickly changed their home base to Lossi, using JPA.

Advo, do you really expect them to be able to do anything quickly with JPA? :bored:

Pezza

[Double Zero]

A question for you Tonka guys; why did he over-run the runway when he's got fairly powerful reverse thrust ?

I notice he ended up to one side, which I'd like to think was airmanship...

I can very well appreciate that a big whole in the front quarter side canopy is nothing minor, I've been half out of a/c for filming ( with harness ) at 150kts, so I do know the incredible forces involved even at that speed & distraction / visibilty under the visor & maybe some instruments out possibilities.

Or after the birdstrike was reverse thrust deliberately not selected, possibly even flaps etc too, as there may have been asymetric damage ?

I find the mention somewhere above about a possible collision rather unlikely, as it would have been difficult / a very rare spot-on hit not to have bent some of the metal around the canopy too ( though one could say the same - apart from the alloy arch - about the position of the bird strike ) ?!

Good news is they walked away - bad news, to Newcastle.

[A2QFI]

Never having flown anything with reverse thrust I don't know the answer but using reverse thrust on one engine with the other dead having eaten a bird is probably a good reason for not using it, assymetry and things?

[BluntM8]

Double Zero, whilst I'm not prepared to speculate about the causes of this incident, hopefully I can give some generic insight. Part of the way Tornado is designed incorporates more than one hydraulic system, which helps with redundancy. However, it would be bulky and heavy to have every system powered by both hyd channels. Some of the systems are fed by either the left or the right hyd system - for example the spoilers are split inboard/outboard and driven by different hyd feeds. Another example is nosewheel steering, which is driven by just one side of the hyd system. It is possible that a birdstrike might disable some systems but not others, leading to unusual system deployment on landing.

Edit to add: Reverse thrust has it's own set of limitations in use, which may preclude or restrict it's use in some circumstances. If the speed is low enough and you suffer a wheel brake failure, say, rev thrust may not be able to stop you rolling off the runway into the grass.

Following a bird strike, one option available to the crew is to carry out a low speed handling check - usually carried out if airframe but not engine damage is suspected. To carry this out you can fly into a safe area - for example over the sea or in the overhead of an airfield, and then progressively slow down and configure the aircraft, monitoring it for loss of control. This could, for example, reveal that the flaps won't travel beyond mid, or a tendancy to roll below a certain speed. Armed with this knowledge the crew can then modify their approach accordingly. In most cases, a birdstrike leaves you time to climb away from the ground, catch your breath and then solve any ensuing problems in slow time - very rarely do you need to throw the aircraft on the ground straight away.

Anyway, hope this helps a little. I've tried to avoid speculation on this partictular incident but I hope I've made it a little clearer why you might see aircraft landing from a birdstrike in unusual configurations.

Blunty

[High_Expect]

Just for info reference the reverse thrust.... You can use one engine at up to full reverse thrust with the other one at idle/shut-down, all depends upon the crosswind and braking action of the runway. :ok:

Not saying that this was an option for them. It would be unprofessional to speculate as to the cause as we don't have any other facts.

Pleased you walked away.

[Porrohman]

What was the wing sweep angle on arrival? It's hard to tell from the photos I've seen so far but it looks like the wings might not be all the way forwards to 25 degrees? Reports in the news suggest a very fast touch down.

[SRENNAPS]

Flaps and slats are down so I would like to think the wings are fully forward.

[Runaway Gun]

It seems a pity that 90% of the Wannabe Test Pilot on here weren't flying the aircraft, because no doubt they would have done it all better than the qualified guy who safely landed it. :mad:

[D Smalls]

I hope this isn't an official definition of "landing safely", or we might have to get a few spare jets.....


Obviously I don't know what happened and I'm sure everyone did very well etc etc...

[noiseabatement]

Glad the crew walked away uninjured.

On our local news last night, was a quote that opened my eyes.

An airport worker reported "the speed of the jet was about 300mph as it touched down"

Is it at all possible the speed could have been anywhere near that? The runway is 2329 metres long... and the GR4 came to rest off the runway but short of the trees/bushes on the perimeter.

[andrewmcharlton]

300mph would be a stretch to believe. The shuttle only lands at 215mph ! (when it's not doing a wide area landing over Texas anyway)

I seem to recall when I learned to fly that all landings are controlled crashes anyway and as long as you have the same number of landings as take offs in your log book you're a winner.

[Tricorn]

as long as you have the same number of landings as take offs in your log book you're a winner.

............unless you fly UAVs :}

[airborne_artist]

you have the same number of landings as take offs

I've got loads of landings in my log book, but we employed a driver for the take-offs :E

http://rattlergator.typepad.com/rattlergator/images/82nd_airborne_div_patch_1.gif

[noregrets]

...to andrewmcharlton for poor taste :=

[cats_five]

I seem to recall when I learned to fly that all landings are controlled crashes anyway

They still are if you fly a glider.

[Alber Ratman]

I will never see that aircraft fly again in my RAF career.:E

I might see it on the chariot that brings it to Marham thought!

E-mail to RSS Control required please!

I remember being on the team that fixed up 20 Sqn's old "GT" at Laarparts when it decided that its nose gear was going to rip out half its bay. We fixed the ground away maxiskirt as well. The bod who did it repaired it did his best, but it never really matched back up with the Kite. Our resident artist did a charecature picture of the guy in a superhero cape, nailing the thing back together.."Gash Gordon, you've got 14 months to save the Maxiskirt!"

[insty66]

20 Sqn's old "GT" at Laarparts

I did the BF on that:{:eek::}

It's still in service:ok:

[NutLoose]

andrewmcharlton (http://www.pprune.org/forums/members/123194-andrewmcharlton)

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newcastle
Age: 38
Posts: 107


300mph would be a stretch to believe. The shuttle only lands at 215mph ! (when it's not doing a wide area landing over Texas anyway)

I seem to recall when I learned to fly that all landings are controlled crashes anyway and as long as you have the same number of landings as take offs in your log book you're a winner.


Surely 300mph would exceed the Tornado's VNE by a considerable margin.... :p:p:p;)

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Newcastle is only 6700Ft long. In an emergency, like after a bad 'Bird Strike', the crew may not have had the option of picking their landing airfield and might have been heavier than they would wish.

From experience, I can say that landing a Tornado, single engined and heavy would be a challenge on a runway so short. Single engine thrust reverse is effective, but has some limitations, depending on the crosswind of the day.

Bottom line is, they probably had to make some hard choices, and did the best they could in the conditions. It could have been much worse.

Well done folks, I'm sure you didn't 'plan' it that way!

Regards,

Advo

[noiseabatement]

Advo

Nice post mate.

Whatever the speed was, whether 300mph+ or not the guys, or girls did a sensational job to get it down and to a standstill in one piece.

2329 metres, or 6700 feet isn't that long when having to make a critical decision.

[Davetron]

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing apparently. And seeing as the crew was safe then it was a good landing right?
The pilot may have steered it off center so as to avoid the r/w lights? But is there a point in speculating since the crews are uninjured and nothing terrible happened? I would assume that birdstrikes are scary things and in my opinion the crew did well to land and wal away form it, and I'm sure their boss would say the same thing!
Just my two cents.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Actually,

I guess they were using max thrust reverse up to the end (I would have!), and that might have slewed them of centre.

Better to go off the end slowly off centre, than fast and straight.

Difficult day, that turned out well (ish).

Regards,

Advo

PS: They are in 25 Wg with Flaps. The only way they could would have landed at 300mph, would have been in 67Wg, which is 219Kts + Fuel ie 230Kts+, or 262+Mph. In that case, on a 6.7K runway (without cables), there would have been a fireball.......

So Much for speculation. Anyhow, well done again, hope you had a good night out! Everybody have a Great WeekEnd !!!!! :ok:

[BluntM8]

God knows why they ended up off centre - well, God and the crew. (Insert your own pilot/God complex joke here). Who's to say that it wasn't as a result of the nosegear collapse? Or max asymetric rev thrust? Or a really big magnet just out of the photos? When the official report comes out, then we'll know. Until then it's just speculation.

Don't even remotely buy the 300mph thing though...

Blunty

[ACARS]

I think they ended up off centered in order to avoid the approach lights which start just before the paved area.

[XL319]

I think you'll find EGNT has 7600ft of runway not 6700 as stated. 767's fly out of there every day and I think they would need more than 6700 with full payload

[Lurking123]

RW 07 at NCL has 7157ft LDA.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Just re-measured it on Google Earth! If you land on 'Brick 1' (Inset TH 07) you go of the hard stuff 7275 Ft Later. Sorry for my incorrect earlier post which was measured between the two inset thresholds, not including the piano keys.

Regards,

Advo

Even so....... 7275 ft is short in this case.

[patrouille]

Newcastle Still has longest runway in North East of England.

Acording to my AFE Flight Guide

Newcastle: 2329 M

Leeming: 2292 M

Durham: 2291 M

Paul

[NutLoose]

It took them minutes to decide the approach, actions, deal with the emergency and pull of a successful diversion and landing.... :D

3 days later, sitting in the comfort of our homes or workplaces we are all still debating if the landing strip was long enough...... puts it all into context really, does it not......:cool:

[H Peacock]

It took them minutes to decide the approach, actions, deal with the emergency and pull of a successful diversion and landing....

3 days later, sitting in the comfort of our homes or workplaces we are all still debating if the landing strip was long enough...... puts it all into context really, does it not......

Well, up to a point maybe. I recall a colleage of mine who effectively killed himself by mishandling a [spurious] Oil P caprion in a Hawk after getting airborne at Brawdy! Now had he managed to get the ac down safely, but overan the runway, then it could still be debated that the emergency was not handled as well as it could/should have been. Regarding the Newcastle Tornado I admit we don't yet know all of the facts, however, I would not wish to rule out any criticism of the emergency handling simply because the crew walked away. :)

[soddim]

You make a very valid point, H P, and many instances have occurred where an aircraft has been hastily and unsafely returned to Earth with a problem that could well have been better handled with less haste.

However, this is certainly not the place to dissect accidents and incidents without access to all the facts.

[MostlyHarmless]

However, this is certainly not the place to dissect accidents and incidents without access to all the facts.

Really? When did that change?

[Radhaz]

I hope the BOI read this thread. They are sure to find ALL the facts here! No point in interviewing the crew now...

I like the idea of a big magnet, just off the side of the runway... or maybe it was Coriolis...

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Bit of a storm brewing here, but my point was only:

The crew had some kind of emergency, and made their choices. They might not have had many reasonable 'other' options, and so, we can only assume, they went with a plan based on the best info they had, and the time they had.

In the end, it was 'untidy', but nobody got hurt. (Unlike the truely tragic events at Brawdy, that a previous poster mentioned.)

I don't want to do the BOI's job, but looks to me like a 'best out of a bad day' event.

Regards,

Advo

[tonker]

Went passed tonight and the Tornado is still on the back of the truck a week later with the canopy wide open!!!!!

I hope last nights rain won't have got passed the blue cover laid over the front dash.

[Alber Ratman]

The crew had a emergency and got the aircraft down as safety as they possibly could. So much rubbish said on this thread (as usual).

[taxydual]

Possibly the canopy was left wide open to get rid of the smell the aircrew left when they sh@t themselves.

No disrespect to the guys, but hurtling down a long/short/medium sized runway at 300/200/100 knots with 25/45/65 degree wing, I think I would have sh@t myself too!!