Remind me again? Why is Lyneham closing??

[Grimweasel]

Lyneham News (http://www.lynehamvillage.com/news/lynehamraf/jetfly220708.html)

Paragraphs 4 and 5. So, would it not be a good idea to keep the place open then?
We need a change of HMG; the Con Party will keep it open!

[Lurking123]

I'm not sure about the positive slant on the weather. Pick a hill, shove an airfield on top, call it Lyneham and make it a MEDA.

Says the chap who had to go to work at a nearby Oxfordshire airfield one New Year's Eve because the MEDA was fogged out, again

[Mr C Hinecap]

What wide-ranging infrastructure? There isn't even a fuel hydrant there.

Does Wiltshire never have bad weather? Blimey. I do like that bit tho - because it is in a different place to other airfields, it might have different weather. Really? Amazing.

[MrBernoulli]

Cos its full of dirty, smelly, noisy Hercs?

[Vage Rot]

I'm not sure about the positive slant on the weather. Pick a hill, shove an airfield on top, call it Lyneham and make it a MEDA.

Says the chap who had to go to work at a nearby Oxfordshire airfield one New Year's Eve because the MEDA was fogged out, again

What's a MEDA these days? We used to have loads of them, hence if one was fogged out there was another, within your fuel range, that could take you!

Then again, i might just be ranting about the good old days again - pull
up a sandbag!!!

[moosemaster]

MEDA - Military Expenditure Dropped Again :ok:

That's what we like to hear.

Safety first!! (after budget constraints, of course :rolleyes:)

[Truckkie]

Yes - it may be on top of a hill but in 10 years I have been fogged in/out only 4 times:ok:

It has two runways for those nasty crosswinds or when the main runway might get flooded or be closed by peace protestors.

It also has enough parking for 100% of it's aircraft all year round with sufficient spare capacity to handle all the air charter and diverted aircraft that a nearby airbase can't cope with.

It has enough hangar space to enable the engineers to rectify the airframes.

It doesn't need to refurbish all its MQ estate, has enough local amenities, including schools, to cater for the service and civilian workforce.

It's close to major road links, SPTA and Wales, closely located to all major user units.

It has enough movers to handle more than 1 inbound AT aircraft every 4 hours whilst still supplying manpower to deploy and assist a nearby airbase because they are short-staffed.

Everyone likes working at Lyneham and the morale is superb considering it has had the death knell sounded on it for the last 3 years.

Still - the uber-base have promised they can do all this and more on half the budget they asked for!

Can't wait to see where they will squeeze the C130Ks and C130Js, A400Ms, FSTA, VC10s, Tristars, visting/diverted aircraft, air charter, trials units and all the associated personnel and infastructure:eek:

[Bob Viking]

"Everyone likes working at Lyneham and the morale is superb considering it has had the death knell sounded on it for the last 3 years".

Everyone likes it. Best close it then. Can't have happy campers now can we?!
BV
Sorry. Must have got out of the wrong side of bed this morning!

[Mr Busby]

Quote:"Paragraphs 4 and 5. So, would it not be a good idea to keep the place open then?
We need a change of HMG; the Con Party will keep it open!"

Would that be the same Con Party that destroyed the Forces' medical care, shut most of the Service hospitals, sold off the married quarters estate for peanuts, oversaw an enormous redundancy programme etc, etc?............

[Razor61]

Everyone liked St Mawgan and thats now closed.

Already been said on numerous threads but 'what if' an incident occured at Brize and the runway is closed for hours on end or for that matter, hours of dense fog?

No transports or tankers will get airborne... and those already in the air will end up at Manchester probably, miles from their intended destination because Lyneham will be full of helicopters.

Whereas before, atleast if Lyneham wasn't fogged in, AT could get airborne and in...and all the eggs were not in one basket so to speak.

[Door Slider]

Its not closing. Although news on the Belvedre (sp?) has been quiet, all SH will still being going there in 2013. No surprise that the environmental impact studies of having 100 helicopters there has not been done yet though.

[Arclite01]

Fairford - Razor61 ??

Arc

[tonyosborne]

Fairford's only open on an as-needed basis, don't think the tower is always manned, dunno how quickly it could be done in an emergency...

[OKOC]

Quote "Bredbury hall is a good place to stop".

Layover I would suggest!

[Last of the Many]

I have looked at the whole Lye/Bzn thing and arrived at the conclusion that putting all the Strat and TAC AT into an airfield with only one runway is a less than sensible thing to do. :ugh:

I give it 10 years after we've moved out before the mistake has been realised and we move back into Lye again.

[AdmiralPiett]

Apparently last week a couple of the SH squadrons were briefed by a senior officer that they will be based at Lyneham in 2013...

Are all the Sims going to move?

???????

I would like to meet the person that thinks that all this is a good idea...
It just gets more ridiculous.

[14greens]

Forget Bredbury hall, the div for Brize is usually Brum these days and then they can get a bus to ya to get you back to base for the next trip

[airborne_artist]

Are all the Sims going to move?

Bet CAE's contract will make that an expensive item?

[Grimweasel]

....and there was Min AF saying earlier this year that there were no plans to
keep Lyneham whatsoever in the MoD estate.

That could come back and bite him in the ass in the Commons?!:}

[US Herk]

Fairford's only open on an as-needed basis, don't think the tower is always manned, dunno how quickly it could be done in an emergency...
Last I knew, you were correct on manning. So long as the tower is manned by USAF, you won't get a "quick" opening for any emergency - USAF ATC have pretty strict crew rest requirements not unlike aircrew, so unless they've got rested boys on standby or alert, you'll need fuel to hold for 12+ hours! :}

[Tiger_mate]

Lyneham to Benson is 55 miles by road. There is no need to even consider moving the SIMs. Even if Benson was to close outright, MSHAFT could remain operating within the inevitable industrial estate as the civilian company that it is. Once upon a time the Sim was in Stavanger ....Argh ...memory lane.

[AdmiralPiett]

Have you driven from Lyneham to Benson? It takes longer than the quoted '55 miles'...

And yes, there is a plan on the table to move the sims to the 'Super' SH base. Just as the Herc sims are being moved to Brize.

All it takes is a lot of money.

[BEagle]

The '55 mile' route requires use of the M4 and A34. 2 of the most congested and dangerous roads around.

If you go via Wroughton and then take a cross country route to avoid Swindon and Didcot, it's about 50 miles but takes 90 minutes on a good day....

Utter madness to move the C-130s from Lyneham and squeeze them into Brize. Where will everyone live? They're just starting to knock down the hideous crack houses after being shamed into it on TV, but there won't be enough space to build much in the way of new housing as a result.

As for finding somewhere to park on base....:eek: The Ops Wg car park has been handed over to hire car companies and everywhere else is already filled to bursting.

The place has been in disarray for about 14 years now as various career-obsessed opportunists have meddled, fiddled and destroyed everything instead of standing up for their folk and saying NO MORE!!

[Biggles225]

Keep Wooton Lynestoke!
Most people can find it! :ok:

[Online ACM]

I don't know if you've heard but they don't have the money to complete the move and there's no money to stay, maybe we'll just be homeless

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

I don't know if you've heard but they don't have the money to complete the move and there's no money to stay, maybe we'll just be homeless


We could always be based from Akronelli like the old days with 70 Sqn. :ok:
Would save loads of flying hours as we only seem to go East nowadays.

Could continue the K's till 2025 whilst waiting for BZN and A400M to be ready.

[whowhenwhy]

There are definately a couple of USAFE ATC'ers at Fairford - nice guys too! Had heard that the LYE to BZN move was in the dwang with money issues and that an SH move to LYE was in similar dire straights because of the amount of infra-structure investment that would be required. In terms of the sims, I'm led to believe that a move was written into the contract.... Heaven help us if that is true, it would mean that someone on our side with a bit of common sense was involved:E

[Logistics Loader]

As DoorSlider says;

Appears no-one has done the "Green Thinking" on Lyneham closing...!!!

When Gutersloh shut down to the RAF World the AAC crowd moved in...

However the AT flying prog was along the lines of

Mon - Wed - Fri LTN-GUT-LTN Trooping flights
Wed Op Banner
Fri SAFAIR Charter
plus any other ad hoc AT fleet moves and during the silly season
School kids flights.

Once the AAC gang got there the increase in overall aircraft movements increased considerably....!!
Coupled to the fact Herr Bertelsmann made Gutersloh "his" own operating base for his own fleet of biz jets i believe.
The locals sure had room to complain of increased activity...

Bradenstoke may suffer the same fate if the "Rotary Club" move there.

There was all sorts of "plans" drawn up years ago.

Move the C130 fleet to RAF Bentwaters or any other shut down RAF/USAF base...along with UKMAMS / Tac Med / TSW / Mob Cat Sqn / TCW....
again all the Tac element eggs in 1 basket... !!!

Inherent problem being all USAF base ran on 110 volts....so it was a case of major redevelopment being the order of the day..

Keep the TAC and Strat guys seperate....

Runway state Black at BZZ would stuff the whole shooting match....

Anyone remember the Tristar that "bounced" and dumped fuel over Witney ??
What if it didn't bounce ???

Scores of pax and crews let alone frames diverted all over blighty....!!!

[skaterboi]

We all know it's a sound idea to move the Herc fleets to Brize. I mean getting all those in quarters at Lye commuting to Brize due to housing shortages and getting all those from Benson to commute to Lye for the same surely is the best joke anyone's come up with for ages!! Why not get all those people at Brize to go full circle and commute to Benson just for sh*ts and giggles :E

But I did hear a rumour (and it was strictly a rumour) that the powers that be have realised there is simply not enough cash for us to move and the whole plan is in major doubt. Anyone elaborate on this?

[Green Flash]

It has two runways for those nasty crosswinds or when the main runway might get flooded or be closed by peace protestors.

It also has enough parking for 100% of it's aircraft all year round with sufficient spare capacity to handle all the air charter and diverted aircraft that a nearby airbase can't cope with.

It has enough hangar space to enable the engineers to rectify the airframes.

It doesn't need to refurbish all its MQ estate, has enough local amenities, including schools, to cater for the service and civilian workforce.

It's close to major road links, SPTA and Wales, closely located to all major user units.

It has enough movers to handle more than 1 inbound AT aircraft every 4 hours whilst still supplying manpower to deploy and assist a nearby airbase because they are short-staffed.

Sounds like it would make a cracking civvy airfield; maybe majoring on air cargo? Could still div the odd AT in if/when Brize is max'd out. Just think what MOD would get for it if they sold it ....oh .....:hmm:

[sisemen]

With all the angst and breast beating please remember that this exercise in futility was probably started by some gp capt of the 'master race' that was really, really quite anxious to get his 1 star and leapt on the opportunity provided by a passing comment from some bean counter from the Treasury at some meeting or other.

The gp capt then gave the staff work to an aircrew sqn ldr to work out the details - and he was really anxious to get the 'scores in the doors' to make wg cdr.

At some point - if you are keen enough, or unfortunate enough, to cop a posting to a HQ or MOD then you might well be one of these nameless wonders that cops a beating on this forum. And of course you'll keep your head down and let the flak head the way of the politicians or the blunties - won't you?? :yuk:

[Bob Viking]

Of course, the idea of driving many miles for your simulator currency trips is simply absurd isn't it?!
Far too dangerous, costly and time consuming.
It could never happen, could it?!
55 miles is c0ck all. Try 90-odd each way, then you'll know the meaning of the term 'ball-ache'! The A17 isn't exactly the safest road in Britain either!
Sorry, a little bit of feeling sorry for myself there. Won't happen again!
BV:(

[Photoplanet]

Well, it's not far by Heli/Taxi, is it? Why not use the newly established taxi-rank at Lyneham, and ferry all the Sim Jockeys back and forth by SH, give them something to do!

[lurkposition]

Siseman,
You are just re-stating the "perpetuating wally theory"
Why does everyone find our situation such a surprise?

It will continue ad inf until bigger gonads are supplied to the "elite" seat polishers.

[minigundiplomat]

ferry all the Sim Jockeys back and forth by SH, give them something to do!


Not sure if that statement is a fishing trip, or a combat indicator of extreme stupidity.

The SH Force has plenty of things to do. Ask Ross Kemp or Prince William.

[NURSE]

nice to see the MOd is the same as the NHS move things round for theoretical savings/Promotions/Kudos etc and waste a vast ammount of money on infrastructure moves/changes only for the staff on the coalface to say it won't work for reasons X,Y,Z. And for the same descision makers to eventually reverse their descisions and waste another shed full of money to recreate what they changed at the start!!!!!!:ugh:

[Rafair7643]

I cannot understand why everyone is so surprised.

It's fairly obvious, that some Air Commodore has (over coffee) asked some Groupie,

AC: "Are the men happy?"

GC: "Oh yes sir, very much so sir!"

AC: "Well go and f*ck them about a bit, they're not being paid to be happy"

Stands to reason.

Stew

[JamesA]

Skaterboi,
It has already been done. Back in nineteen canteen, when the Brits moved to wonderful BZN. We used to commute from Bradenstoke cum Clack (called Lyneham to save envelope space). A great time had by all, trying to find the shortest/quickest route. And then done in the reverse direction as a lot of us had moved but, the a/c hadn't.
So it is already a proven commute.

[Lurking123]

Why doesn't the MoD do away with both and just buy into a big airport (a la Frankfurt Rhine Main)? It isn't as if we have zillions of movements.

[BEagle]

When were you last at FRA? The old Rhein-Main is now 'Cargo City' and not much of the old USAFE site still exists.

[Lurking123]

1985, when a car bomb went off. :ok:

[BEagle]

I fail to see what's ':ok:' about terrorist crimes.

Would you care to explain?

[isaneng]

When the man briefing the closure/move produces a list of 20 essential items, and admits that only 1 to 8 are funded.............
When the PMA rep admits that manning figures only work because of the data interpretation.............
When the powers that be forget that we can't work without groundcrew, and haven't figured out how a forced commute will screw up their shift pattern........

Must be time for another fitness test.........

[VinRouge]

When the man briefing the closure/move produces a list of 20 essential items, and admits that only 1 to 8 are funded.............

I am guessing housing at Brize features as one of items 9-20.... :hmm:

Any word on how they will pay for home to duty for the numerous commuting crews? Unless they plan to minibus each crew to/from BZN? Could prove interesting from a crew duty POV especially if individuals have minimum crew rest between routes (TTF)? Unless they put a herc on to LYE to pick up the crews/lineys!

I just hope the next government see through this and sack the idea...

[Truckkie]

Any word on how they will pay for home to duty for the numerous commuting crews? Unless they plan to minibus each crew to/from BZN? Could prove interesting from a crew duty POV especially if individuals have minimum crew rest between routes (TTF)? Unless they put a herc on to LYE to pick up the crews/lineys!



Exactly that - the strong rumour is buses will be provided in the morning and the evening for shift workers and aircrews. This will stop you being able to claim HDT:mad:

Doesn't work for crew duty/crew rest or for those on standby duties - holding 6K/J and Q from the mess anyone:ok:

Certainly won't work if your working day doesn't fit into the carefully organised bus timetable - NVG in the summer?

Imagine the phone call to Ascot Ops/DSCOM - 'sorry we will have to cancel/delay RR**** because the minibus picking the crew up from Lyneham was late and they will be out of crew duty!'

Or:-

'Sorry Boss, I can't do that sortie because by the time I get back to my MQ at Lye I won't have enough crew rest before the bus leaves for Brize in the morning!'

What a load of :mad:

[Farfrompuken]

well it will be a good catalyst for the RAF to draw down manning levels as many won't put up with the enforced commute and second-class working accom at BZN.

I do think that BOTH herc & rotary mates will be living "one base behind" quite entertaining. :ugh:

Clearly no-one bothered to research or cost this as it certainly won't offer any performance enhancement and it's going to go way over budget.

[BEagle]

second-class working accom at BZN.

When was it brought up to that standard?

[blue monday]

second-class working accom at BZN. When was it brought up to that standard?

PMSL, thats a good point, had a 2 month winter det there a few years back, was 'housed' in some old MQ that had been split in two, i'd rarther have lived in a 4 man corrimec than that accomadation.

[bythebackdoor]

I had heard that as 47 AD are going to be one of the last units to leave LYN, should the J crews (one of the first units to move )want to drop a CDS, the crew will have to fly from BZN to LYN and then wait on the ground whilst the AD guys load and brief. And then of course land back at LYN to drop them off, before trucking back to BZN to de-brief. Awsome.
Think of all the extra fuel and time. The move to BZN should save oh at least 5p :ugh:

[minigundiplomat]

should the J crews (one of the first units to move )want to drop a CDS


Is he really that unpopular these days? I saw him on the Andrew Marr show the other week and thought he came across quite well. Mind you, he talked for 20 mins without actually saying anything.....

[Fast but Safe]

Shall I? Naa I can't.....

Oh ok then,

WAAAAAAAAA!!