Wycombe Air Park to become a football stadium ?

[gpn01]

Air Park Campaigners Welcome Stadium Proposal (from This Is Local London) (http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/whereilive/localheadlines/display.var.2411408.0.air_park_campaigners_welcome_stadium_p roposal.php)

The airfield has a consulative committee which meets at least there times a year and is normally open to the Public (Wycombe District Council - Aircraft noise (http://www.wycombe.gov.uk/sitePages.asp?step=4&contentID=2406&categoryID=3784)). At the latest meeting however the Public were barred from attending (Angry Residents Locked Out Of Meeting (from Bucks Free Press) (http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/mostpopular.var.2407888.mostcommented.angry_residents_locked _out_of_meeting.php)).

Could this be another airfield that's going to be redeveloped ?

[hobbit1983]

According to British Airways Flying Club (http://www.bafc.co.uk/history.shtml), "The long-term lease of the airfield is now held by Airways Aero Associations Limited" - which means that since they have the lease, if they don't want to up sticks and move somewhere else to make way for footballs clubs :rolleyes: they don't have to...right?

Or will the council buy them out/change the lease/etc?

[gpn01]

That same website reference also says "Arora owns and operates a number of sporting venues and Hotels". So, it could actually be that AAA Ltd DOES want the airfield to become a football stadium. Either way I think the existing lease expires in 6-7 years.

[betterfromabove]

Welcome to the new official religion of the UK....

...if football wants, usually football gets.

[1800ed]

There is already a football stadium in High Wycombe, why do they need another :ugh:

[Duchess_Driver]

Wanderers training ground is just across the road and the ground itself isn't too far away. Ground's a bit stuffed for access so maybe.....

Typical though....spend all that money rebuilding hangers and all for WAC/BAFC Eng and not forgetting Heli-Air/CAP then flog it all off for footie. Think there may be a little more life left in the old place yet (as an airfield that is!)

[tangovictor]

i haven't been to watch a WW game for a few years, however, I doubt its ever sold out, so why would they wish to move, from a ground thats only 10 years old anyway !

[Mark1234]

I can only make one suggestion:

Save the report "Air Park Campaigners Welcome Stadium Proposal (from This Is Local London) (http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/whereilive/localheadlines/display.var.2411408.0.air_park_campaigners_welcome_stadium_p roposal.php)" somwhere. In a couple of years time when the same perenial nimby whingers are beefing about rowdy drunken fans, traffic and noise, print a ton of copies and administer forcibly. Preferably as a suppository :eek:

Sad to see the place go, but suspect it's inevitable :ugh:
(Despite my current locale, I learned to glide there..)

[A and C]

It's just a bit of hot air from a bunch of vocal half wits. They have lives so shallow that they have to try to bring us down to the level because they don't have the inteligence, drive or ability to get them selves a forfilling and interesting life.

Most of them are truly stupid and are driven by a few who think they are into propery speculation.

If they think that a football stadium would enhance the value of the property I would sugest they take a drive around the areas around most premiership clubs and see what the area is like!

[DenhamPPL]

I had my first flying lessons with BA at WAP in 1990. Still fly in there occasionally from Denham or Kidlington. Nice airfield and great location.

I REALLY hope it doesn't get turned into anything to do with football. Can't stand the "game". I always get the impression that it's full of retarded, coke-fuelled wife beaters with a tendency to drink-drive. And that's just the managers:oh:

DenhamPPL

[Final 3 Greens]

There is a strong utilitarian argument here about maximising the benefit to the community from airfields.

I imagine it is easy to show that many more people will use a sports complex than an airfield.

So one needs to have a clever argument to counter this.

[tangovictor]

There is a strong utilitarian argument here about maximising the benefit to the community from airfields.

I imagine it is easy to show that many more people will use a sports complex than an airfield.

So one needs to have a clever argument to counter this.

Wycombe already has excellent sports / swimming facilities, within, 2 miles of Booker ,
The problem is noise, and I'd ask / beg those of you with noisy a/c to please
1 don't overfly residential areas on full throttle.
2 don't do aero's over some other peoples airfield, as happens regulary, where
i fly from, (Oakley ) it may look like a disused airfield, but look at the chart,
microlights fly from here, we all fly responsibly, never annoying our
neighbours, however watching a " yellow" a/c, beat up our run way last
Saturday, was annoying, := probably from Booker

[Sir George Cayley]

Arora? As in Arora Hotels? As in started by an ex Steward?

Shirley not.

Sir George

[gpn01]

Probably quite a lot of noise in the area since the Red Bull Air Race team arrived. Don't think there's been many complaints though as they're good fun to watch.

Be interesting to see if Arora Holding/Airways Aero Association/BAFC/Wycombe District Council provide some more details about the proposal soon. The locals who think that having a sports stadium next door is better than having an airfield might want to check with residents who currently live next to a football club - noise, vandalism, parking problems, blocked roads on match days, lower house prices and increased litter all seem prevalent!

[warrior28]

Obtained my PPL at Booker, fantastic place in the 80 ies. CFI was Dick
great Guy and fantastic Instructors, Karen being the BEST !

Remember WASPS RFC ground share with WW and have more Spectators
and no trouble

[Human Factor]

Arora? As in Arora Hotels?

That's the fellow.

[stevfire2]

nowhere does any official statement say that wycombe air park would/will close as a result of building a stadium! dont be pessimists.:ok:

[smarthawke]

Well said Stev.

Amazing how people read into rumours what they want to hear. Perhaps IF there were plans to build a stadium there, then PERHAPS there would be room for an airfield as well.......

[gpn01]

The official statement stated:
"WDC leader Lesley Clarke said the council was unable to give say at this stage whether the move would spell the end for the Air Park"

So, yes it doesn't say that the airfield will close. It doesn't say that it won't either. In this age where football is king and general aviation is considered an elitist activity, which way do you think a council would sway? Maybe I'm being a pessimist, more likely I'm being a realist.

[smarthawke]

Perhaps IF a football stadium were to be built at an existing airfield, who actually developed the site may have an effect on whether the two entities co-existed....

[rtl_flyer]

Perhaps IF a football stadium were to be built at an existing airfield, who actually developed the site may have an effect on whether the two entities co-existed..

Cannot see aircraft being able to land and depart with Jo Public on site. Thruxton is close when public events (race days) are on - no arr/dept until crowd has cleared, not racing stopped. Prob' insurance heath & safety.:mad:

[smarthawke]

In that case, perhaps they'll be putting traffic lights to red on the M40 then every time an aircraft is on final for 24 then....

[gpn01]

There's a subtle difference between an assembly of people at a public event vs people driving. OK, so at times, it's difficult to tell the difference at the nearby motorway junction at rush hour but....

[chevvron]

Although Adams Park is an excellent modern(ish) stadium, there's plenty of room in the north west corner of WAP to build a stadium (if you displace the clay pigeon club which must create a noise nuisance itself) and still allow flying to carry on. They built a replica of Brooklands there for 'Those Magnificent Men....' and flying still carried on.
Gibraltar has a football stadium right on the edge of the airfield; Yarmouth Stock Car/greyhound track is right next to North Denes which is now a heliport but was fixed wing for many years.

[Final 3 Greens]

"This house believes a sports stadium would offer more potential activities to more community members than an aerodrome."

Does anyone wish to speak in reply to the motion?

[Plod]

I think people should remember a couple of recent successes. North Weald has been at risk for years but has survived even though it's no where near as busy as WAP. Kemble has also won a major battle against NIMBYs.
I spent a lot of happy hours at WAC during advanced training and then spent some time instructing there. It's very busy and a viable business. I would be very surprised if it is at risk.
The vast majority of pilots there are very good at complying with noise abatement routes, even if these do take you outside the ATZ when using rwy24. I'm sure that the regular complainers would be absolutely genocidal if they had to contend with the masses of the great unwashed if a football stadium were to be built there.
It's a great airfield with some wonderful people working there. Long live WAP!

[csurally]

I'm sure that a football stadium would be more appreciated and far better for all the people who live in wycombe than an airpark for the wealthy few who only turn up for a few hours flying and contribute nothing to the area.

[smarthawke]

csurally - a stunning first post from an alleged frozen ATPL (according to your profile). So how did you get to frozen ATPL - any flying in the sort of aircraft that operate from Booker...? Last time I looked WAC do a fair bit of commercial training from Booker.

'Wealthy few'? Wealthy I am certainly not. I could earn far more pennies working as a car mechanic than on GA aircraft but I enjoy my work and spending my hard earned money flying out of Booker.

Ever thought of the employment of the 100s of people employed at the air park and the money that directly brings into the area and that's apart from the 100s of pilots who fly at Booker and therefore more money into the area - oh and many of them live in the neighbourhood too.

Back to the other point - who said the two couldn't exist together IF the idea became any more than a rumour?

[Airbus Girl]

For at least the last 20 years there have been rumours of The End of Wycombe Air Park. About 20 years ago WAP was the 3rd busiest airfield in the UK (based on number of movements) and the airfield has been there since the war. The two main problems it has are:

1. It is owned by the council
2. People keep moving into houses next to the airfield and then complaining that there are noisy aircraft flying out of the airfield that they just moved next to.

The last good rumour, that had been going for about 20 years, prior to the new football stadium rumour, was that the airfield was going to be closed and turned into a housing estate, because there is so much green belt land around High Wycombe that couldn't be built on. The other potential was for the M40 motorway service station to be built on the corner of the airfield.

These rumours didn't become fact.

Seeing that there is already a good football stadium in High Wycombe, and a sports complex and that Airways Aero Associations pay a stash of cash to the council for the lease, I can't really see it happening.

I also think that anyone who moved near to the airfield in the last 60 years and then has the cheek to complain about the aircraft noise should be banned from anyone taking them seriously.

Long live Booker!!!!

[trafficcontrol]

I hate the way Aircraft Noise is always targeted and used as an excuse when people my age, drive round in their "imitation high performance cars" which make more noise than a bloody pa28 at times!

As for Adams park to move, I do go frequently, as well as flying from booker....The ground is never filled, the industrial estates get alot of benifit from renting out parking space, and wycombe is one of the nicest airfields in the country.....WITH a Tower too!! Would be a great shame....

I honestly don't believe anything will happen though.

[A and C]

The story has very little substance to it mostly being overblown rubbish invented by the Bucks Free Press to fill the front page on a slow news week.

[gpn01]

Hopefuly you're right. Alternatively it could be that someone is spinning a plausible yarn that is going to make whatever is actually announced appear somewhat less worse....

[horizon flyer]

The problem is mainly Helicopter noise which has increased in the last 10 years and as they us a very low circuit hieght, 700ft it upsets the locals.
If the same procedure was followed as Denham, that is use the same procedures as fixed wing it would help cut noise.

The anti Booker groups are run buy some very powerful people.
Booker will go if they do not change their ways soon.

First get rid of Captain Orchard better know as Captain ackward, he a pain in the arse and is upsetting the locals. Need someone good at dealing with people.

I think it is a Rugby stadium the want to build not football.

And lastly the police are investigating the shooting of a helicopter with what looks like a 308 rifle from the hole in it. Thats why the last meeting excluded the public, scared some would come in and shot Orchard.

The police have not found who did it yet, so you may get more than you bargained for, fly in to Booker, be warned.

[B Fraser]

A rugby stadium ? It's London Wasps and not Wycombe Wasps.

I doubt that Adams Park (or Wycombe) is really their preferred choice of venue as it is often filled to capacity which in turn, puts a cap on their match day revenue. There should be a sizeable London stadium available in the third quarter of 2012 with excellent transport links, plenty of seats and proximity to a huge fan base.

[smarthawke]

Horizon Flyer - beware, a little knowledge can be so dangerous. Where are you based? No 177RGs based at Booker.

Lovely day today, lots of flying at Booker and no anti-aircraft guns about....

[horizon flyer]

Yes Smarthawke a little kownledge can be dangerous. I am just telling you all, Booker will go if they do not listen to the general public. I believe the lease is up in 4 years and only costs approx £50,000 a year, yet the commercial value of the land area would indicate £500,000 a year is the correct price. The main noise problem are Helicopters (R22s are bad) and aircraft with proptips that go supersonic (Redbull team and 177RGs are an example). The defence, that aircraft are operating inside the law does not stop the public in the area around, being very upset. Denham is a good expample of a responsible airfield that takes noise complaints seriously, even if you are in side the law and see White Waltham for how to keep in with neighbours. There is live and let live, but the noise Booker produces is getting worse, so see the writing on the wall, read it and do something about it or loose Booker.

[smarthawke]

I rest my case....

[gpn01]

"There is live and let live, but the noise Booker produces is getting worse, so see the writing on the wall, read it and do something about it or loose Booker"

Maybe there's an opportunity for the airfield residents to start up a 'hearts and minds' campaign with the locals ? Local press has published a number of comments, the majority of which are actually in favour of the airfield. Several are quite vitriolic agauinst the 'moaning minnies' who buy a house next to an airfield and then complain of aircraft noise.

[VOR_DME]

What people in Lane end (the noise abaitment zone) don't appear to realise, is that if this does go ahead, the airfield is being moved a few hundred yards so that the extended centreline will go smack bang through the middle of lane end itself.

:}

[smarthawke]

Not entirely sure how you work that one out, VOR DME!

Firstly who said the airfield would be moved? Secondly, if the runway was to point at Lane End, best everyone gets good with cross-wind operations given the prevailing wind.

So where did you hear that wonderful rumour from?

[VOR_DME]

It's in the current plans... can't unfortunatly say where I got that from (and thus I realise no-one is going to believe me - that's the problem with anonymous forums), but it is from within AAA!

[smarthawke]

I'll let the AAA management know tomorrow then, bet they will be pleased to know what's going to happen.....

[gpn01]

Seem to recall that the announcement by Wycombe District Council was that there was going to be a six month survey/feasibility study. It would make sense for this to include several options, one of which being to realign (and potentially extend) the main runway. This would also then permit the operation of larger/heavier aircraft. So it could result in increased capacity....and even more complaints from those who live at the end of the runway.

[MartinCh]

moaning minnies
Hehe. That reminds me of nice documentary I've seen.
One Six Right - Romance of Flying.
It's about Van Nuys airport in California. Lots of personal stories, history of the airport etc.
Funny how green the Valley was when the airport was built. Sure, it was expanded, more/longer runways etc over the decades, but the original idea was to create town around airport. The two of them as both integral parts of the community. Airport providing investments, jobs, etc.

Then they showed how it looks now. Airport squeezed into miles of residential houses. All around. You all know property, California, sun, cash...
No wonder that some residents aren't happy with bizjet traffic that wasn't there (or little) few decades ago.
Anyone who moves in close to estabilished busy GA airport should either put up with certain level of noise pollution or simply not be there in the first place.

csurally
Let's just close all the big airports except country's capitals. Who needs so many of them lifting people for holidays to the Med and stag parties in the 'East' just to get pished? How could you say that airport is useless to community? Something very fishy about your 'fATPL' as smarthawke 'researched' your profile.
I'd rather see people taking coach to bigger airport than having Ryanair zooming down to every landable airport just to ferry folks to Ibiza or Tenerife.

Closing GA airports is bad. If one was to train at big international airport, landing fees would simply not allow so in the UK.
16R documentary also showed the pace of closing small airports in the USA. Also due to land value etc. Frightening.

[Tootles the Taxi]

Just seen this thread. I know a bloke who tells me he manages the local shooting club (NW of the field if I recall?) also happens to play for Wasps.
Anything more than a coincidence?

[Dan Dare]

Out of idle curiosity I took a look at the Google map of Booker (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=booker&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=10.28957,27.026367&ie=UTF8&ll=51.616631,-0.82037&spn=0.026007,0.054932&t=h&z=14) and I think the good people of Lane End should have nothing to fear from this as an extended centre-line through there would give the shortest of possible runway configurations, requre the removal of most hangarage and have high ground immediately in the climb-out. I think it VERY unlikely. The airfield is in a tricky spot to extend any runway direction with M40 and the Lane End road blocking it in, high ground to the NW and quite major earthworks required for anything beyond what they already have. I can't immagine where they squeeze in a Rugby/Football stadium either.