AEF Question.

[Diddley Dee]

I am a Mil ATCO with a PPL and I am posted to Prestwick next year. I have heard whispers that PPL holders are able to fly cadets at AEFs. Does anyone know if that is so? Another factor is I am a WO, would not being commissioned rule it out anyway?

TVM
DD

[XL319]

There has been numerous rumours about PPL flying AEF, but nothing has come of it yet. As far as I'm aware you have to be a (any of the services) service pilot or ex service enrolled in the VRT with a min of (i think) 2000 hours or there abouts. It may have changed recently though.

You could give OC 12 AEF a ring at Leuchars who could maybe advise better? I think they have regular detachments to Glasgow and Kinloss

[PPRuNeUser0211]

DD,

AFAIK the current requirement is to be a current/former Qualified Service Pilot (essentially winged & combat ready) or be winged & approved specifically by (I think) Group Captain Fg Trg or similar (i.e. be of a sensible nature and own two arms and two legs). This last caveat is fairly recent and allows folks on epic holds post-wings to do some flying.

As for ppls etc, have not heard anything about that, but was not on the cards last year afaik. Sorry no more current ideas.

[Diddley Dee]

Thanks guys. Thought it would be unlikely....

DD

[Wader2]

Ten years ago my cpl flt planning NCO gained a ppl and then flew on the AEF as a staff pilot in the Grob. He is not instructing just flying.

[Insty396]

There maybe a chance for you to fly the motorised gliders for the cadets. I was approached (as a PPL) at my local airfield and asked would I be interested? The short story is my local VGS had enough pilots but that is not to say you could not ask/offer. I would have joined as a civilian Instructor as I have now parted from HM Forces, but you could no doubt retain your rank (not too sure on last point).

Insty396

[MATZ]

Why not just call HQ Air Cadets at CWL?

Wg Cdr Flying Ops is on Ext 7612 and is a nice chap.

Wg Cdr Training is equally as nice and on Ext 7616.

:ok:

[Diddley Dee]

Hmmm very interesting replies thank you. I will call the suggested numbers.

DD

[boswell bear]

Your local VGS would happily train you to instruct on the Vigilant Motor Glider, a PPL joined our Sqn about 9 months ago and is now a C Cat instructor aiming to get his B Cat within another a year.

[Diddley Dee]

Rang the suggested numbers and they have referred me on but no answer there today, will try again tomorrow

Hadn't thought about Vigilants.... assume I would need a gliding qualification for that? Done a quick internet search and there doesnt seem to be a VGS with Vigilants at Glasgow.

DD

[RB877]

DD

You don't just have to look at Vigilants, the Viking schools welcome PPL's too and its far better flying without a fan on the front!

RB

[boswell bear]

Hadn't thought about Vigilants.... assume I would need a gliding qualification for that?

Not needed they'll teach you all you need to know.

[XL319]

Most of the VGS in Scotland are Vikings (Arbroath, KirkNewton near Edinburgh) Kinloss has Vigilants

[whowhenwhy]

DD, thanks for the phone message - shall be ringing later. Hope that you and Mrs DD are well :ok:

[Diddley Dee]

Thank you everyone for your input. I have tracked down the man with the answers (via the numbers listed above... TVM) and it is indeed possible but subject to there being a lack of Mil aircrew to achieve the task.

I will pursue it further and see how the land lays when I arrive at EGPK.

DD

[BEagle]

Huh?

A PPL holder flying a civil registered aeroplane for the purpose of non-private flying?

This sounds awfully close to being illegal, if not actually so, as you would be receiving the valued consideration of free flying.

If there aren't sufficient military pilots available to meet the 'task' requirements, then the pilot requirement should be advertised. In my opinion such pilots should hold CPLs for this work.

Sorry to sound like a trouble maker, but I wouldn't like to be in your shoes were something to go wrong.

Or were you referring to VGS flying?

[airborne_artist]

BEagle - how would the holder of a CPL be any more legal, given the nature of the operation? Is there a requirement that AEF pilots get paid?

[BEagle]

Probably not, but 'valued consideration' means more than just cash in the hand.

After the Police Optica accident, the CAA took a long hard look at PPL holders doing anything other than flying either privately or sharing costs with others.

The Air Cadet website states that 'AEF aircraft are flown by volunteer pilots, all of whom are current or former service pilots.'

Parents of Air Cadets thus have an expectation that their offspring will be flown by people with rather higher qualifications than a PPL. If such pilots are unavailable, then as a minimum a CPL holder should be contracted to provide the service requirement.

[airborne_artist]

The Air Cadet website states that 'AEF aircraft are flown by volunteer pilots, all of whom are current or former service pilots.'A good point.

If such pilots are unavailable

There may be regional variations, but I'm told that many AEFs have a waiting list for staff pilot positions. Of course, if you retire as an Airship the list might be a lot shorter :}

[Wader2]

Rather be flown by a real fg off than one with stars in their eyes.

[Hummingfrog]

I would be very surprised if there was an opening for a PPL to fly on an AEF.

There is generally a waiting list to join and several hoops to jump through before you are approved to fly with cadets.

The sort of flying that the AEF's do is not just cruising around with a cadet admiring the view. Most want to do aerobatics so a PPL would have to be qualified to do some fairly complex aeros - you would be surprised what cadets want to do!!!

The AEF's offer some of the most rewarding flying for ex service pilots as most cadets are keen and a pleasure to fly with so places are sort after.

Beagles point about flying a G- reg a/c doesn't really apply as they are flown under military rules and you don't need a civilian license.

HF

[BEagle]

HF - that's true if flown by a military (or reserve military) pilot, but I doubt whether it's true for others (except for student pilots under training).

I wouldn't care to put it to the test.....

[Diddley Dee]

Thanks for the input. The guy I spoke to today was the man to talk to and he currently has a one or two PPLs operating on AEFs. My conversation with him leads me to believe it is unlikely but it is possible and we agreed that I should touch base when I move to Prestwick

DD

[Oldandgrey]

Not sure of the set up of the AEF's but I would think that as he is a serving WO, he could be supernumerary on the AEF and therefore would fly under that banner with a suitable work up by the QFI's? Going back to the VGS Vigilant system, staff wishing to join that hold a ppl or a service qualified pilot have their required flying hours reduced to reach a Grade 1. Last I remember it was 5 hrs before it could be awarded as apposed 50hrs for someone starting from scratch.

[Mike Read]

Some twenty years or so ago on No 6 AEF we had a Fg Off VR(T) who said he was the only one of us to have been promoted to commissioned rank when he joined us. He'd left full time service as a master pilot unlike many of the others who'd had to accept demotion from AVM, Gp Capt etc to join our illustrious mob of flying officers. Democracy of a sort !

[XL319]

Best place to look is the ACP1919 and other relevant publications:ok: