RN Pilot vs. RAF Pilot age

[AdamLT]

Hi all

I would love to know the answer to my following question:

'Why is the age limit for pilot entry 26 in the Royal Navy, and just 23 in the RAF?'

I guess that the RAF operate a wider range of fast jet aircraft than the RN. But why would this alter the entry age?

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Ad

[AdamLT]

Cheers 1.4G

I was only asking the question.

[AdamLT]

interesting reply. cheers

[airborne_artist]

Adam - the answer is, no-one knows! That said, it gets harder to pass the FATs and get through flying training if you are starting aged 25, as aptitude starts to fall off from aged 23 onwards, roughly.

That said, the guy from the course after me who got the only Harrier slot from his EFT was 25 and a qualified barrister when he joined the Dark Blue. Charlie Gilbert - now a large cheese in BAe.

[3portdrift]

It's a combination of aptitude and population size. Say the peak aptitude for Aircrew occurs at about the age of 22/23. There will be some people who have the aptitude at 18 and some still who have it aged 28, but in both cases, many fewer than at 22/23. The RAF has very many more applicants that the RN, even though it also has more places available. It is also more likely to be the first choice for many candidates. So the RAF can fill their slots by only looking at the age range between 18 and 23. However, as the RAF snaffles most of the candidates in this age group, the RN has to cast it's net a little wider and look at candidates up to the age of 26. The RAF could put its age limit up, but that would be inefficient, because, for example, the pass rate at 26 might be one in 200 compared to one in 20 at the age of 22.

[Trojan1981]

Adam,
I will admit I don't know much about the British forces, but they always seem to be cutting back rather than expanding, so I guess they can afford to restrict the pool of applicants.

In Australia, the age limit for RAAF entry is 45 (they prefer <27.5 but I know of at least one 34 yo pilot cadet). In the RAN the age limit is 49 and in the Army Avaition Corps it is 52!
Food for thought.

[Wader2]

3Port's answer is probably the size of it but might it change in the future?

The pilot recruitment target increased last year by about 30%. The overall recruitment target this year and on has increased to over 4500. The number of uniformed personnel remains capped at 41000.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Arkroyal]

I never did ask 'why'.

I just thank the lord that it was so 30 years ago, and that by the time I decided on a flying career, I was too old to become a crab.

Fly Navy
Eat Crab

:}

[str12]

AdamLT

I was told that the RN looks for candidates that are more mature because they *can* operate in a more challenging environment.

Imagine it is night, bad weather, you are low on fuel and there's an enemy sub in the area so no radio / radar / lights and the ship is damaged and has changed course. And, once onboard you have to carry on fighting the ship, you have no where else to go so very much Officer first, pilot second.

I believe the pass mark in the Flying Aptitude Tests for RN is higher than RAF (RAF 80 percentile, RN 90 percentile) so you need to do better in the FATs.

The RAF has fast jets (the RN doesn’t anymore) and these require you to do better for certain aptitudes but you won't get streamed until after Elementary Flying Training anyway.

I am not trying to start a flame war, just relating what I was told...albeit by the RN :ok:

[Wader2]

Imagine it is night, bad weather, you are low on fuel and there's an enemy sub in the area so no radio / radar / lights and the ship is damaged and has changed course.

Or land on a neutral (Spanish) merchant man :}

And, once onboard you have to carry on fighting the ship, you have no where else to go so very much Officer first, pilot second.

Or once landed on a bomb damaged runway proceed via decontam to debrief while enemy bombers continue to probe and missiles keep arriving.

Fighter first, target second.

[airborne_artist]

Str12 - there's very little on your post that's true, as it happens.

I believe the pass mark in the Flying Aptitude Tests for RN is higher than RAF (RAF 80 percentile, RN 90 percentile) so you need to do better in the FATs.Mostly wrong, except that the Navy is only taking applicants who score above 130 for pilot, though the pass is 112. 112 gets you to AIB, but it does not get you to BRNC.

The RAF has fast jets (the RN doesn’t anymore)Guess all those RN guys at Naval Strike Wing (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.00h00100200200k) at Cottesmore were in fact RAF guys wearing RN uniform the day I was there last month, just to fool me.

you are low on fuel and there's an enemy sub in the area so no radio / radar / lights and the ship is damaged and has changed course. And, once onboard you have to carry on fighting the shipYou'll go to your pit and get some sleep ready for the next launch :ok:

[andyy]

I am not sure of the reason but my guss is that the RNs upper age allows General Service Seaman/ Warfare Officers to enter the RN and do at least one watchkeeping job at sea in a Frigate or Destroyer before sub specialising as aircrew.

[Wader2]

I am not sure of the reason but my guss is that the RNs upper age allows General Service Seaman/ Warfare Officers to enter the RN and do at least one watchkeeping job at sea in a Frigate or Destroyer before sub specialising as aircrew.

Nice one but wrong.

The limit applies regardless of whether you are in-service or a civilian. It follows that in-service personnel could have had 2 or even 3 commissions before switching the aircrew.

In that sense it is identical with the situation in the RAF.

The Pilot age limit for the RAF is for civilian entry, you must be 24 years and 0 months on your first day of IOT. . . If however, you apply to be a pilot from the ranks the age limit is 26

In other words the question stands - why is there a difference for civilian entry. 3port still has the best answer.

As for why the RAF extends the limit to 26 for in-service applicants can be put down as you are now a known quantity and a lower training risk.

[str12]

AA - I was merely relaying what I was told at Biggin Hill in '95 when I did my FATs but appreciate the correction - especially regarding the lads at Cottesmore.

Cheers.

[Wader2]

On my RAAF OTS Course there were three guys over 35 and two 32. The remainder were around 19 to 28 - all RAAF Pilot candidates.

Interesting to know what their success rates are. Did they all pass? It is quite possible that their extra maturity stood them in good stead for the workload.

If they passed what types were they assigned to? It takes time to acquire combat knowledge and skills. Were any assigned to fast-jets?

[Wader2]

Andyy touched on career progression at the bottom end and certainly an early commision as a watchkeeper would be useful at the other end I would guess.

In the RAF a career progression might be:

IOT 24, FTS 25, Sqn 27 as a flt lt graduate. 29 2nd tour as senior flt lt. 32 sqn ldr and 37 wg cdr. Add in a couple of years for staff colleges. 43 gp capt and 47 air cdre. 51 AVM and you would then be too old to become an AM even.

Move the entry date and the upper ranks fall off the tree. Starting as an aircrew wg cdr at 40 is as late as the fast mover can afford and then would probably cap at gp capt or air cdre.

CAS joined at 21 and became an AVM at 48 and ACM at 53 so my hack is about right.

You may only wish to rise to sqn ldr but just maybe the system is keener to give all the chance of rising to the top.