Demise of the Jetstream

[HaveQuick2]

At long last, looks like the replacement has been officially announced:-

DATE:18/07/08
SOURCE:Flight International
FARNBOROUGH 2008: By Craig Hoyle



Cobham's FR Aviation subsidiary is to supply a new fleet of Beechcraft King Air 350ERs to deliver observer training services for the UK Royal Navy, after being named as preferred bidder for the requirement.
A deal for an undisclosed number of aircraft should be signed in October, according to the Lockheed Martin UK/VT Ascent consortium, which during May received a contract to deliver the UK Ministry of Defence's 25-year Military Flying Training System.


The new type will replace the RN's current fleet of around 12 Jetstream T2 trainers at RNAS Culdrose in Cornwall. The King Airs should be ready for training use one year after contract signature, with operations of the current type to halt during 2010.
FR Aviation was selected during June following a competitive and assessment process of around 18 months, defeating one other bidder to the public-private partnership deal. The company will provide modified aircraft and deliver maintenance support, says David Harrison, divisional commercial director for Cobham Aviation Services.
The selection of the King Air 350ERs - which Harrison says have already been secured - was made by the MoD, but he adds: "It's absolutely the right choice for this task." While declining to detail the required modifications to the aircraft, he says these will be "quite extensive, but well within our capability".
Cobham's success in securing the RN requirement could lead to further opportunities within the MFTS programme, such as for a second-stage rear crew and multi-engine trainer to enter Royal Air Force use in January 2014.
A contract for this work will be awarded during 2011, according to Ascent.
"We will use this opportunity as a real litmus test for Ascent and the MoD to see what we are capable of," says Harrison, who adds: "We will do a good job." Possible export opportunities for similar services could exist in Australia and the Middle East, he says.

[spheroid]

What about Heron flight? Will they be equipped with the King Air as well?

[wetdreamdriver]

Spheroid
You are well out of date! Surely you have heard that CAS didn't like being seen getting out of an RN Jetstream at an RAF base so he told his underlings to get shot of the T3s, despite the fact that the Crabs are in desparate need of AT and the T3s are so cheap to run compared to the 146 or the 125. And they can move 16 people all over Europe!
Look at the savings - £5 mil over 10 years to run Heron Flight versus a annual £3million uplift in MODs travel budget by getting rid of the T3s. Now that is the kind of cost saving I like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh:

Never let it be said that this wasn't a tribal decision.

Keep you friends close, keep you enemies closer, keep the crabs even closer!

WDD:*

[BEagle]

How on earth can the RAF be responsible for the demise of Heron Flight?

A great pity if it does go - I remember those DH Sea Herons chugging around the UK when the FAA had a decent number of bases. Then they went and along came the T3s.

This sounds like another crass decision....:rolleyes:

[LFFC]

Perhaps it's more to do with the fact that the Jetstream is very old and might soon be unsupportable.

I understand that the tri-service UKMFTS project only exists to replace aircraft used for training, so unless the RN finds funding to replace the Heron Flight, I suppose its demise is inevitable. :ouch:

[wetdreamdriver]

The reason that the RAF can get rid of the T3 is that they control the support through the training aircraft IPT. And no the T3 isn't very old. its OSD was supposed to be 2018!

[Green Flash]

Wonder who is going to buy the old 'Streams and then hire them back to MOD as taxi's, for bazillions of taxpayers dosh?:rolleyes: Bet they turn up in Iraqistan painted grey!:ooh:

[XV277]

I understand that the tri-service UKMFTS project only exists to replace aircraft used for training, so unless the RN finds funding to replace the Heron Flight, I suppose its demise is inevitable. :ouch:

Maybe the FAA will use the same sleight of hand that got them the T3s in the first place? The 'T' was supposed to be for training after all?

"No money for new communications aircraft to replace the Herons"

"Er, we have a need for more observer training capacity"

"OK, here's some money for Jetstream 31s, call them T3s"

"Thanks, er maybe we don't need so many observer trainers after all"

Or am I being cynical?:)

[spheroid]

Surely you have heard that CAS didn't like being seen getting out of an RN Jetstream at an RAF base so he told his underlings to get shot of the T3s, despite the fact that the Crabs are in desparate need of AT and the T3s are so cheap to run compared to the 146 or the 125. And they can move 16 people all over Europe!
Look at the savings - £5 mil over 10 years to run Heron Flight versus a annual £3million uplift in MODs travel budget by getting rid of the T3s. Now that is the kind of cost saving I like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely that can't be true. CAS wouldn't dare waste that much tax payers money just because his pride was hurt.

Where is that Journo when you need him. Surely we should start a petition to save Heron flight from the RAF.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Boo hiss, nasty old RAF eh?

Poor little Royal Navy, give it a hug.:rolleyes:

[Roland Pulfrew]

they control the support through the training aircraft IPT

That wouldn't be the tri-service training aircraft IPT would it?

Never let the truth get in the way of a good rumour:rolleyes:

[NutLoose]

PPssssssstttttt :cool: Wanna buy one? yours for £45 Grand :}

EVERETT AERO - Aircraft/BAe JETSTREAM (http://www.everettaero.com/Jetstream475.html)

Or do it yourself for £12 grand plus change

EVERETT AERO - Aircraft/BAe JETSTREAM (http://www.everettaero.com/Jetstream500.html)

Do you a nice Dominie for forty big ones

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or perhaps you're in the market for something a bit for sporty? a nice Sea Harrier perhaps or failing that at the lower end of the sports dept, how about the Mighty Jaguar :\?

EVERETT AERO - Aircraft/BAe SEA HARRIER/FA2/JUMP JET (http://www.everettaero.com/zh806.html)

EVERETT AERO - SEPECAT JAGUAR (http://www.everettaero.com/jaguar.html)

All one careful owner and low miles ;):ok:

[WhiteOvies]

Unfortunately MOD 'Centre':mad: don't like VIPTAX. Senior RN Officers can catch the train despite studies saying opposite (and senior RAF doing the opposite)! Never mind all the other things that Heron Flt do. He who holds the purse strings controls the fate of Heron Flight.
I know a lot of lobbying went on to keep the Jetstreams but the Option was taken despite the most senior FAA people kicking up a hell of a fuss. Mind you, which colour blue heads up the show(for another two years)?
Wrists being slapped all round for not knocking it on the head sooner.:*

Everyone will miss it when it goes and another facet of Naval Aviation gets removed by those people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.:suspect:

[Guzlin Adnams]

:) PC 12'S anyone?

[green granite]

Leaving your MOD laptop on a Jetstream must be better than leaving on a train. :E

[Occasional Aviator]

I am genuinely astounded at the power the RAF has. Reading the above posts, you would think that it controls MOD(Centre), the DsEC, and the IPTs!!!! no wonder the RN are being shafted, as they only run a small operation out of Whale Island.

The fact is that the Jetstream (like the SHAR) is an old aircraft and is going out of service. I don't know the background to the decision to cut Heron Flt, and it looks to me as though it wasn't terribly well thought out, but when, oh when will the RN stop blaming everything bad that happens to the FAA on the RAF??????

PS - WhiteOvies: I see far more Army officers getting out of military aircraft for meetings than RAF....

[aw ditor]

Rent some ex civvy' J31s' or even J41s' from BAe Leasing, they must have more than enough sitting on the ground awaiting work.

[Roland Pulfrew]

OA

WhiteOvies obviously hasn't worked in The Centre.

I am genuinely astounded at the power the RAF has. Reading the above posts, you would think that it controls MOD(Centre), the DsEC, and the IPTs

ISTR that the DEC who controlled the Jetstream T2 and T3 is/was a Royal Ai.......... Marine officer. In fact I think the last 2 DsEC DSR have been RM!!! :hmm:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Royal Marine officer you say?
Aren't the RM the WAFU version of the RAF Regiment? Aren't they in effect being shafted by one of their own?
Would the RAF ever allow a rock be in a position to make decisions over aircraft operations?

[The Helpful Stacker]

I knew that'd get a rise. These fish heads are far too easy to catch.

[wetdreamdriver]

Occasional Aviator

Quote:

'but when, oh when will the RN stop blaming everything bad that happens to the FAA on the RAF??????'

When the RAF stop trying to take over all military aviation because they think they know everything about it, especially after only one deck landing!

Lets see how long the FAA or the RAF get beyond their respective 100th bdays!

[andyy]

Back to the topic. There was a proposal from a contractor about 5 years ago to replace the RAF Jetstream multi-engine trainer a/c at Cranwell with J31's to be operated on the civil register by Eastern Airways. Serco won the contract instead and they purchased King Airs. Nevertheless, couldn't there be a "call off" contract with someone like Eastern to provide a similar service. Pay for a given number of hours, with additional flights above that being charged at a pre-agreed additional rate.

[XV277]

Pay for a given number of hours, with additional flights above that being charged at a pre-agreed additional rate.

I think the problem is funding has been withdrawn, period.

[andyy]

Tourist, absolutely no bite - it was the plan for the Cranwell Jetstream replacement about 5 years ago, but as I said another contractor proposed a different solution and that was the one that was taken up. The concept of "call off" contracts with "take or pay" levels (manhours, flying hours, tug movements etc) and banded additional variations whilst the contractor takes "third party" useage risk is a well worn path in many contracts to the MoD. Don't see anything wrong with that myself, although I accept that if there is no money in the pot at all because the requirement has been written out then that's tough.

[andyy]

Tourist, I am aware of that but the aircraft are on the military register, housed and maintained at Yeovilton and can have no third party income generation. The difference is that if someone like Eastern Airways or a Biz jet type operator ran them on a call off basis they could fly civvy trips and thus up their utilisation & lower their cost of ownership per flying hour & just be used for MoD tasking when actually required.

[Hardly Worth it]

QUOTE !

Rent some ex civvy' J31s' or even J41s' from BAe Leasing

Why ?

The Jetstream aircraft probably the most economical/green aircraft in the entire inventory has been retired from service on the whim of an Air Ship! who has just construed to rid the Navy of their Air Transport purely because he has a personal problem !

The funding to upgrade the aircraft was in place only to be withdrawn on the say so because it didn't suit ! Shocking decision....... !

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Globemeister]

So when does Heron Flt cease to be?

[Hardly Worth it]

End date for Heron Flight is 30 Sept 2008

[wetdreamdriver]

Have a look at page 45 of this week's Flight International if you want to buy a cheap J31! At least some one still has a sense of humour!:D

[Roland Pulfrew]

HWT

Just out of interest, have you ever worked in the Equipment Capability Customer (or what ever it is called this week) community?:suspect: