Favourite British classic

[chornedsnorkack]

What was the better long-haul airliner - Brabazon or Princess?

[Captain Airclues]

It would depend on how wet the runway is.

Dave

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Well, physics suggest that the Princess was always going to be a dragmistress; but what a way to travel.

[S'land]

Both were too late for their time. However, I am rather partial to Flying Boats so would come out in favour of the Princess. This is not a technical evaluation, but rather an emotional one.

[treadigraph]

For purely aesthetic reasons, I'd plump for the Princess as well, a truly beautiful aircraft and I'd love to have seen her flying. What a shame they didn't preserve one. The Brabazon didn't do it for me.

[henry crun]

Agreed Treadders, I saw them both at Farnborough, and the Princess was by a long way the better looking of the two.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

http://www.uh.edu/engines/saroprincess.jpg

versus

http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/aimages/G1031.jpg

[S'land]

Great pictures GBZ. There really is something "not British" about the look of the Brabazon. To me it just does not fit the "if it looks right, it is right" criteria.

[chornedsnorkack]

Was the range of Princess and Brabazon ever measured in flight testing?

Also, Martin Mars has carried as many ticketed passengers as Saunders-Roe Princess (zero for both) but it is still fighting fires. Could a Princess be good for firefighting?

[S'land]

The Martin Mars may not have fulfilled the passenger role, but the five boats produced (Philippine Mars, Marianas Mars, Caroline Mars, Hawaii Mars, Marshall Mars) did transport freight over a period of some eleven years.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Sadly, the remaining Princess airframes were disposed of in the late '60s. I believe that Airbus did consider them as A300 assembly transporters but chose the Super Guppy option instead. Seems hard to imagine, considering Hawarden (and later, Filton) being landlocked.

[chiglet]

Seems hard to imagine, considering Hawarden (and later, Filton) being landlocked

And the A380 wings are now being transported by..........sea :D
watp,iktch

[chornedsnorkack]

Wingspan 66,9 m
reference wing area 466 square m
planned MTOW 156,5 tons.

Sounds that Princess has a rather large wing loading and fast takeoff and cruise speed compared to other flying boats.

How much runway does Princess need? How well does Princess handle crosswinds on a narrow runway? And how deep does a Princess runway need to be?

Would any stretch of the Garonne at Toulouse be a suitable airport for Princess?

[ICT_SLB]

When I was going to college in Southampton in the early 70s there was still a lone Princess fuselage section (back to just aft of the cockpit) on the beach in front of the original Supermarine factory at Woolston. Anyone know what happened to it?

The Princess hull design still flies - it was the basis for the CL215/415 waterbomber.

[Brian Abraham]

Rather liked the Brabazon, thought it had much in common re looks with the Republic XF-12 Rainbow XF-12 Rainbow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XF-12_Rainbow)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/y.jpg

[HarryMann]

Really makes one ask the question...

What on earth were we thinking of.... ?

The cost of the Brabazon hangar alone :ugh:

I agree a big shame the Princess wasn't adopted in the 'luxury cruise-liner' style though, maybe hopping (if that's an appropriate term for something so large) from seabord-to-seabord, Caribbean island to island..

Didn't realise how good-looking she was, until reading this thread just now - and I did see her from a distance as a youngster from Cowes I imagine...

[aviate1138]

I saw both.

As a kid I remember the incredible noise of the Brabazon [up close and personal at Heathrow] and its slug like speed when airborne. The Princess seemed to have a fair turn of speed for such a large machine [Farnborough - always beautifully displayed]


YouTube - Saro Princess fly-by (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhFzket3SM4)

[WHBM]

What was the better long-haul airliner - Brabazon or Princess?
Probably one of the best measures, as with most things in the real world (as distinct from the parallel universe the Brabazon committee seemed to inhabit), is how much money the manufacturer gets from its customers in revenue for its delivered products.

Brabazon = 0
Princess = 0

So a tie !

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

HarryMann. Arguably, the Brabazon Hangar was an investment that prepared the Bristol Aeroplane Company, then BAC, for the big aeroplane age.

[WHBM]

Didn't handle that too well then at Filton.

Only built 85 Britannias and yet they felt they had to set up a second assembly line at Shorts in Befast.

10 UK Concordes turned out, taking nearly a decade to do so.

Anything else built after the Brabazon ?

[dixi188]

As a Flight Engineer, I would have loved to have been on either, although I'm not sure my hands would have been big enough for all those throttles.
8 on the Brabazon & 10 on the Princess.

I read an article, in "Techair" some years ago, on flight testing of the Princess. Of the 70 odd test flights about half returned with at least 1 engine shut down and on one occation 4 engines were shut down.

Perhaps the reason for two F/E's was that the shut down drills were not complete for the first engine when a second engine required shutdown.:)

The Proteus 1 engines were under powered for this A/C and the Proteus 2 was intended, but Bristol was using all the production engines for the Britannia.

I hope my memory I correct on this.

[Corsairoz]

We have a Princess flight seat, the control wheel and a window at the Solentsky Museum.

As far as we know its the most substantial part of any Princess that remains.......sadly.

Trevor

[India Four Two]

Of the 70 odd test flights about half returned with at least 1 engine shut down and on one occation 4 engines were shut down.
dixi188,

Here is a quote from the remembrances thread about Dick Stratton:

I remember him asserting that he held the world record for the greatest number of in flight engine failures at one time, I think it was six, from his days on the Princess.
I had the pleasure of meeting Dick once, back in the 70s. As everyone says, a true gentleman and a Total Aviation Person. Many more interesting anecdotes here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/private-flying/293130-dick-stratton.html