Flying Legends Duxford 08

[snapper41]

I was all set to go to Duxford for Flying Legends 08, but when I read the display list on the Duxford website, I got the feeling that I'd seen it all before. Yes, seeing 3 B-17s would have been good, but apart from that, it was the same old same old, and £30 each into the bargain. So, I didn't go.

I'd be interested in what you think. Is it time to spice things up at Duxford with some bangs and flashes to wow the crowd? How about more contribution from abroad?

[Agaricus bisporus]

Snapper, there is only a limited (though astonishingly large) variety of WW2 types available. What can they do?

If you have the wherewithal to fund a $10M restoration of a non-existant Black Widow then please go ahead, but even with 10 more projects like that the nature of the show won't be much different, even to the cognoscenti.

How does a Belgian/Dutch Mustang look any different to a British/American one?

If you're bored with that same old high octane stuff then go to RIAT and fall asleep, or visit Old Warden...for bangs and flashes why not try a fireworks display?

[staplefordheli]

well we i was taking my 8 yr old to RIAT to pay on the gate (£45) but due to the suden change of no on the gate admission for Sunday on Friday night, , decided to go to Duxford today. and had no problem getting in at 08:30
However, With Riat cancelling completley, they closed the gates just after lunch as it was jammed pack, but was a really good day with the museum displays as well. And can you ever tire of hearing Merlins and Griffins being put through their paces. There were nine spits airbourne in circuit at one point. First time i had been, but i thought it was worth going
I certainly wont be planning a trip to Riat next year
:ok:

[treadigraph]

Contributions from abroad?

Well, apart from the US B-17G, we had the Belgian B-25, Norwegian A-26, a German Yak 3, French P-51D, Spit XIX (wth the contra prop) and a brand new rebuild P-40. OK, down a bit on previous years with loads of French aircraft, the Swiss Morane, etc... but still. The TFC Gladiator was out on the line but sadly hadn't had enough time to complete its test flying. The P-40B did get airborne, we had 8 different marks of Spitfire. Three Hawker biplanes... Sorry that you are bored with it but twenty years or so ago a display with this sort of line up was impossible to imagine. In the past we've had an A-36 Apache , two Grumman biplanes, five Corsairs... Eight Mustangs... A Lavochkin... Constellations... Three Bristol Fighters...

Big bangs? Not really necessary and how would you fit them in? The area of grass to the south of the runway is a narrow strip and it's where they park the visitors.

Agaricus, you want a Black Widow? Enough dollars, maybe, just maybe the chaps over at Reading PA will part with the rebuild they are doing... Recovered from PNG a few years back and making good progress towards flying again! Maybe when they have finished it Stephen Grey will persuade them to ferry it over for a week or two. :ok:

[mustpost]

As it's the same thread title (but with slight drift) for those who weren't there can I suggest
Duxford 2008 - dragonlady - AirSpace (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/photos/dragonlady/duxford-2008-17080.aspx)
for pics of the weekend's happenings..

[JEM60]

Yes, I am afraid to say that Duxford is 'the same old stuff' Yes, lets get more aircraft from abroad. Please go down to Stephen Grey with loads of money in your hand, and I am sure he will oblige. HOWEVER this 'same old stuff' attracts a full house every year. [I have just spent four days there] and if the sight of 9 Spitfires, five P.51's etc is getting you bored, then I am afraid it's time you tried something else at the week ends. Duxford is absolutely unique in the world, even Oshkosh is the same every year, but it doesn't stop people returning time and time again [five times for me so far] Flying Legends Airshow will, and should not, change, and do remember that this show is NOT organized by Duxford, but by Stephen Grey's Fighter Collection, in order to raise money for us to have the pleasure of seeing such fabulous machinery. Aircraft go unserviceable, sometimes paperwork needs attending to, pilots aren't available, etc. but I am sure he does his utmost to bring us variety. Without this superb gentleman and his wealth, the Airshow scene would be much poorer, and I, for one, consider him and his shows beyond criticism. It was agreed by virtually all that it had been a superb event, and, incidentally, his Gladiator flew on Sunday morning.

[kms901]

I didn't go, purely because I worked out that with the cost of entry for us, fuel, etc it would cost over £150. And for that I can flying for an hour myself.

No contest.

[diddy1234]

I went and watched from a near by field, so did about 80 other cars.

Most of these were family's with the children sitting on the roof's of cars.

Just shows how expensive it can work out for a pleasant day out (im not bashing Duxford).

RD

[Alien Role]

I had the immense pleasure of visiting Duxford 2 years ago and for an Aussie, who has never seen a lot of the aircraft on show, it was a sight to behold.
Walked into a hangar full of fighters (it may have been Stephen Grey's) and there was a beautiful "work in progress" of the restoration of a Beaufighter.
The chap working on it and another younger Aussie' said it had been found in the scrub in Northern Australia.
Is it operational yet?
You are so fortunate there in the UK for back here in Oz, we trashed just about all our war surplus aircraft.
A story I can relate; I was talking to some farmers from Central NSW who were both pilots during the war and they showed me the remains of a Mosquito lying out the back of their sheds, and two Merlins inside one shed.

During the war, Mosquitos were built at the De Havilland works at Bankstown near Sydney and flown to Narromine in Central NSW where they were used for training.

At the end of the war, there were a lot of Mosquitos (don't know how many) sitting at Narromine stuffed full of fuel.
There was a dispersal sale of these aircraft and the local farmers, who were having difficulty getting fuel for their tractors were buying the Mosquitos simply to get the fuel; the only proviso was, they had to take the aircraft also.

This is when I get a tear in my eye; they would drain the fuel out, then chop the airframes up with axes and cross-cut saws, throw them on their trucks, take them back to their farms and BURN THEM!

Keep the good work going at Duxford.

[JEM60]

Hi, Alien Role. The hangar with the Beaufighter is Stephen Grey's. I am pleased to tell you that it has been assembled, and is standing on it's wheels, minus engines at present. Mr. Grey cannot now display twin engined aircraf himself [age related, I believe] and the Beaufighter will NOT fly in the U.K. I know that it is for sale, and luckily for you, there is a rumour that it MAY be headed your way in time.
I am pleased that you took the time to visit Duxford, and that you were impressed with what you saw. G'day.

[treadigraph]

Rumour I heard is that TFC will complete the Beau (and hoepfully it will fly a bit here in the UK) before it heads off to its new owner. Believe they may still be looking for engines and props.

Tim Moore was also rebuilding a Beau at Skysport - any progress?

[EGCA]

My Daughter works in Cambridge and cycled to Duxford on Sunday. She said it was a superb day,even though she is not an "enthusiast" as such. Said it was not too crowded and was able to watch the display ok. Thought the new big hangar display ("Airspace"?) is absolutely stunning.

Strangely enough, she gets in cheaper on a flying day than on a non-flying day! (£9-95 as against £12-80.) No discount for arriving by cycle now, which there used to be apparently.

Sounds like very good value for money. Will visit when next over there.

Incidentally I have given up on RIAT at Fairford. A few years ago I spent half a day queuing on the road from Cheltenham to Cirencester because some numpties could not control the converging traffic flow. Just dont bother to go now.

EGCA

[Alien Role]

JEM60 & treadigraph,
Thanks for your info' on the Beau'.
If it is heading Down Under, my hope is that David Lowey (Westfield Group) may have bought it for his magnificent museum at Temora in Central NSW (not far from Narromine in fact). If so, I will be fortunate enough to see it.
Temora, like a lot of airports throughout inland NSW, was a training field during the war.
I have seen a 'photo of Temora during the war, with 3 rows of Tiger Moths wingtip to wingtip almost the full length of the runway.

Oh, I wish I could spend a full summer in GB, visiting your airshows and museums!
ROLE ON....

[VictorGolf]

After seeing 9 shows, I'm in two minds about Flying Legends. While I wouldn't disagree about the content, which is a tribute to all the owners, engineers and pilots who put in such a great effort, I think the manner of presentation could be upgraded. After all it must have been difficult for the Bleriot to follow the 9-ship Spitfire tailchase. Perhaps the time has come to run the show in chronological order and start with the quieter vintage types and build up to the whiz-bang Merlin and Allison fighters. A few bob spent on fireworks and dummy forts would liven things up a bit but it would mean moving the visiting aircraft to Fowlmere. This wouldn't be a bad thing as a Cessna in the background to "Pink Lady" doing her grass-cutting pass isn't quite right. These things can be done and I saw a "Me 108/9" shoot down a Catalina at Ardmore a few years ago. The Me had an on-board soundsystem and the Cat had some very realistic smoke. They had a gun-firing P-40 at Wanaka this year and they always have some decent ground explosions. Perhaps Legends needs a theatrical director to whiz it up a bit.
So this year's "score" Content 9/10 Presentation 6/10.

[Bob on the Ground]

Being a disappointed RIAT ticket holder I persuaded Mrs Bob to let me out to see the Flying Legends show on Sunday and I had a great time. To see so many wonderful aircraft in the air and the pilots thoroughly enjoying the flying it was a fantastic spectacle. True, I haven't attended FL before so it was a new experience, but to stand in front of the flight line and watch these snarling beasts taxi back gave some idea of what it must have been like in the 40's.

I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display, but then I thought that it was a small price to pay to keep these magnificent aircraft flying so that future generations may get to see them and understand about the sacrifices made.

[Good Vibs]

Seven of us came from Germany and were there both days.
Unfortunate that the second Gladiator didn't fly in formation with the Shuttleworth one, that the RNHF Swordfish had engine problems and could not come, and that Sally B also was missing an engine. Besides that, what an Excellent Show of WW2 aircraft.
In our opinion the best that one can hope for EXCEPT one thing........The commentators!
We come to see the aircraft and HEAR the Merlins, Packards, Wrights & Bristol Sleeve Valve Engines. The commentary blairing out of those loudspeakers during the flying drowns out the "music" of the engines. Absoultely the wrong time and volume for any unnecessary comments.
We also think that the 5 Stearmans & Beautiful Wing Walkers hit the spot. What a lovely addition to the Flying Legends. Keep it up!
Only stop the "excess noise" (commentary) during the flying.
Thanks to all involved and we will come again!

[treadigraph]

I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display

I know what you mean, but on the other hand compared to a Premiership football match or the British Grand Prix, it seems like a bargain - and you get to go round the museum as well. And the money isn't inflating the bank balance of a bunch of greedy, overpaid, temperamental, prima donnas. :}

Three hours seems the perfect length to me - I gave up going to RIAT after the MiGs collided, just too big, too many people and too long. The Tiger Club's excellent "at home" displays were three hours as well.

Unfortunate that the second Gladiator didn't fly in formation with the Shuttleworth one

They had a teething problem with the Glad in the week or so leading up to the show, plus I believe the weather played havoc with the test schedule when all was ready; though if you went Sunday you may have been lucky enough to see her fly when Pete Kynsey took her up for another test sortie. Next year...

I like the commentators, but I agree that they need to keep quiet more - Melvyn Hiscock did say they'd keep quiet at one point but sadly Bernard Chabbert opened his yap five seconds later... I remember them playing stirring music during a Hurricane sequence a few years ago - and the Super Connie was taking off at the time, a noise I dearly would have like to have heard clearly! And I have no intention of buying male skin care products even if Guinot do sponsor a squadron of Stearmen. Mind you, baby oil smoke, it did smell a bit better than the Sparrer's DIY IFR weather kit. :E

I really do think that bombs and bangs have no place at this show - it's all about the aeroplanes, and to hear and see them fly with a little bit of verve is spectacle enough for me.

Cheers all,

Treadders

[tembo01]

I would have liked to attend to the Flying Legends 2008 , unfortunately I couldn't. Last time was two years ago and it was great. What a fantastic job the organizers are doing . The only comparison is the Ferte Allais show in France and it comes as a distant second both as a show and for static exhibits too. The price is similar 40 eur.They had pyrotechnics going on but the timing was so bad it looked more like a really bad B movie.I got a (paying) ride on a Ju 52 and what a great moment it was. Unfortunately the organizers didn't oblige so we didn't have the chance of saying:" Achtung Spitfeuer!"
Regarding Flying Legends something puzzles me, the best vantage point is on the slope by the land warfare museum , so why put the paying marquees beside the tower?
I am looking forward to see the ME 262 and FW 190 replicas or the Vulcan making an appearance someday.

[JEM60]

Hi, Treadigraph and Good Vibes. Two American friends of mine came over for the show, as they usually do, and one of them remarked, before the show, that he hoped that French Chap would keep quieter this time.
Bernard Chabbert is a man who is in love with everything connected with flying, who gets his subject across to people extremely well. He owns a Lockeed Electra and writes beautiful articles about flying. HOWEVER, I can only agree that whilst SOME information and lyrical waxing is appropriate from time to time, he really MUST keep quiet at the others. My friends loved the show [as always] but again criticsized the commentary. As one said 'we came to hear airplanes, not English with a French accent'

[JEM60]

Hi, Tembo 01. The BEST viewing is in the corner at the motorway end!!!. As regards enclosures, having them near the mound is not a possibility, because there would be too much car park space lost, and there would also be very little room between the car parks and the taxi way to accomodate them. Also, a lot of spectators prefer to be in the centre of the airfield, because they are closer to the main facilities, hangars, trade stands etc., whereas people like you and me prefer to be on a corner. Should you have an suggestions to make to Duxford management, you will find them very agreeable to deal with. My friend and I were instrumental in getting the size of the Press Enclosure at the motorway end reduced by 50% following numerous complaints by the public. Duxford management were extremely co-operative about this. Definately one of the best places on the planet in my opinion, tho' St. Maarten comes a close second!!

[tembo01]

Motorway End? left of the control tower at the limit of the field? The reason I like the place by the Land Warfare Museum is that wherever you are there is an unrestricted view thanks to the slope. Other places ( including enclosures) you have to be early and stay in place , otherwise I find it difficult to view the planes taxiing by ( am short :}) or to take pictures. As I come from Spain , I never miss the oportunity to visit the hangars and the restoration projects. BTW how is the Blenheim going on? Two years ago I missed the Spitfire lottery by one lousy ticket ! :{
Heaven is a cottage in the axis of the Duxford runway.

[alphaalpha]

Display too short?

The action started at 13.50, when the Spitfires started up and took off a couple of minutes later. The last aircraft landed after 17.30. So at least 3.40 of virtually continuous action. If you ignore all of the other attractions, such as warbirds flying in and out before and after the show, the classic Tiger Moths and Rapides and even the continuous stream of visiting light aircraft, the ticket works out at about eight pounds an hour.

In my book, that's long enough for all but the most ardent enthusiast and very good value indeed.

Of course, I'm biased :)

Alan.

[tembo01]

Errr I meant I am short ! :\ Certainly not the airshow. I don't know if it was a common practice at Duxford this year, but at the Ferte Alais show in France the fence line was dotted with blokes on ladders, paparazzi style :mad: and they really were a pain in the neck for the people inmediately behind.

[alphaalpha]

Ah, Tembo, I was referring to Bob on the Ground's post. He said:

"I must admit that I did baulk at the £30 entry fee for a fairly short display,....." I wqs surprised he though the show was not very long and that it was expensive.


Turning now to your point: the display limit at Duxford is 50 feet above the ground. Many of the display pilots are authorised to fly lower, but this limit is imposed so that everybody in the crowd can see the aircraft. So, short or tall, you should get a good view.

Alan.

[treadigraph]

Tembo, I don't know if ladders were a problem at Duxford this year, but our beloved commentators certainly asked people to refrain from standing on them at the front of the crowd line. I was in the Friends of The Fighter Collection area and no problem there, but then of course they are all extremely well mannered!!! :ok:

Only probs I had were with a tractor and my mate Mike's head, both of which made several unbidden appearances in the viewfinder just as the shutter clicked...:}

[JEM60]

People on ladders at the motorway end can be a problem. Other people tend to be a bit wary of asking them to desist. NOT ME!!. My friends and I have developed a good system of dealing with non-cooperative people. We bump into their ladders at the appropriate time, just as the best shot is coming. Works a treat, and to applause from other people. At Le Ferte my friend uses his large lense to bounce off the heads of children who try to push him out of the way. Behind the crowd, no problem. In the crowd, simply NOT tolerated by us.:):)

[LowNSlow]

I took my 10 year old daughter to her first Flying Legends on Sunday. It only took us 45 minutes in a queue for the car park (I was surprised it was so little) and while we were sitting there she had the car windows open so she could watch and listen to the Tiger Moths and the Dragon Rapides doing their pleasure flights. She thoroughly enjoyed the show and the museum hangars. As we left during the Stearman display (she thought the wingwalkers were mad and cool at the same time) the Spitfires were taxiing in after their display. Her comment as they rumbled past? "Dad, they sound really good and they smell fantastic". So good to have a child who appreciates the smell of burned 100 octane!! :ok: Her only regret was she didn't get a ride in a Tiger but I have promised to try to arrange that for her from my home airfield as 115 quid for 15 minutes was a bit steep.

[S'land]

"Dad, they sound really good and they smell fantastic"

Not only intelligent, but the young lady has excellent taste.

[Good Vibs]

Your daughter is 100% correct. Thats entirely what I mean by the unnecessary commertary blaring out of the loudspeakers all day long!
We were lucky to have both B-17's stop in front of us and also enjoyed the smell!
Its just like a beautiful sunrise or sunset, you don't need someone to explain it all to you....Just Enjoy the Beauty of it All.

[swordfish41]

I have seen some mock battles and air assaults at other air shows and even if the organisers make the max effort they are still embarrasingly unconvincing. As another contributor said, there is a limited pool of old warbirds, although I have seen some interesting displays at Duxford, inc trained geese, aerobatic gliders, (no engine note there!) and quite a lot of wingwalkers.
£30 is a lot but these planes take a lot looking after. An hours flying in a Mustang for e.g. will set you back a few hundred quid just in oil and fuel. Take somebody who hasn't been before. Even non enthusiasts are enchanted.

[Bob on the Ground]

alpha,

When compared with RIAT it was a short display.

However I did say that it was small price to pay to keep these magnificent aircraft in the air. I do believe it was worth every penny and long may it continue.:ok: