Smoke removal A320

[Delta Papa]

Hi, folks, i have two questions . When you have smoke/fumes/avncs smoke , if the SMOKE/FUMES becomes the gratest threat you may consider the ELEC EMER CONFIG.
According with the FCTM 03.026 page 6 "the SMOKE REMOVAL procedure must be applied before the electrical configuration is set. Indeed, in electrical emergency configuration SMOKE REMOVAL procedure cannot be applied, since manual control of cabin pressure cannot be selected"

Suppose you procced according with the SMOKE/FUMES REMOVAL Procedure and you descent to FL100.
I read the QRH 1.06:
*At FL100 or MEA
* If electrical emergency configuration:
-APU MASTER SW..........ON
-PACK 1+2....................OFF
-MODE SEL...................MANUAL
-MAN V/S CTL...............FULL UP
-RAM AIR......................ON
-APU MASTER SW..........OFF

Question 1: Then it's posible to apply the electrical configuration before the SMOKE REMOVAL Procedure?

Question 2: The QRH calls for APU Master SW ON, not APU ON. I don't know the relationship between the Master SW and the MANUAL SEL if any. Dont start APU to avoid the lost of 3.5 minutes of battery life?
Should I start it?
Thanks in advance
Delta P.

[Essential Buzz]

DP

In EEC you don't have manual control of the OFV - only AUTO SYS1. By selecting the APU MSTR switch on, it powers the battery contactors (I think), permitting operation of the OFV.

Trouble is: closure of PACK2 valve is inoperative in EEC!

[The Flying Cokeman]

Delta Papa,


If you got smoke on board the correct way to go through the smoke drills are as follows:

Qrh 1.07, then 1.08 (Smoke/Fumes/Avncs smoke)

then

Qrh 1.06 (Smoke removal)


then

1.09A

According to Airbus you do not any longer do Elec sheding, so forget about 1.09.

For the Smoke/removal checklist; The FL100 or MEA if in Electrical EMER configuration only refers to the APU master switch.
The other points such as Pack 1+2, RAM air etc has to be done despite you are not in ELEC EMER configuration.
It is not very well written by Airbus.

[Delta Papa]

"For the Smoke/removal checklist; The FL100 or MEA if in Electrical EMER configuration only refers to the APU master switch.
The other points such as Pack 1+2, RAM air etc has to be done despite you are not in ELEC EMER configuration.
It is not very well written by Airbus. "

It's true, thanks for the clarification

And Thanks Essential Buzz four your message,
Delta P

[The Flying Cokeman]

Delta Papa,

Essential Buzz is right,

When in Elec config the outflow valves are closed and will only open again when you select your APU master switch on.

[avionneta]

here is the answer.
what you've seen in the FCTM was valid until revision 40. FCTM updating has a different update cycle, although it is getting in the facts a kind of reference document since infos in it are most of the time much more valuable that what we can have (or not have) somewhere else in the FCOMs. the rev 41 correcting the smoke removal procedure has been published last year around June I guess !
during 20 years, if in emer elec config before the smoke removal procedure, it was impossible to apply that procedure since it was impossible to deflate the cabin : closure of pack 2 valve inop, manual control of outflow valve inop. could have been nice to tell it in the check list itself at least not to waste time on trying to understand why it was not working in an emergency situation. actually the solution was to cancel the emer config. that manual emer config is indeed reversible by performing the items of the check-list in the reverse direction.
With the rev 41, we have a new item :"APU master sw on". nothing to do with a possible usage of the APU. we are not looking for electric power in the circuits aren't we ? it is because that action will have an effect on the batteries connection (see note in fcom 3.02.26) enabling the manual control of the outflow valve

[Alcatraz69]

If there is any TRI or TRE willing to give a detailed or summary of this proceedure , it would be greatly appreciated.

Differtent people have different interpretations!

Thanks

[captainpaddy]

Anyone have any idea what this bit means in the Smoke Procedure after setting ELEC EMER CONFIG?

IF AVIONICS SMOKE ECAM NOT TRIGGERED DO NOT PERFORM THE GEN RESET

[Bula]

I'm no TRI, but from what I understand the basic premise of the checklist is to allow a normal approach and landing by bringing the aircraft out of the EEC prior to landing.

Avionics smoke is usually caused by an overloaded circuit and the melting of rubbers and plastics. If the avionics bay smoke has NOT been triggered the cause must be somewhere else in the aircraft eg a wiring loom in the cabin, which could be much more serious if power is resupplied.

[iqit]

line captains are sometimes more knowledgeble ...
so....
always bet on the person not the rank .
if it happens to be a tri too ,..goodie!
(yes yes ,some first officers too ...:rolleyes:)

[Man Flex 37.5]

Revision 42 is out or almost out.

The procedure can be broken down into manageable chunks, at any time you can stop the procedure and go to 1.06 to remove the smoke

Primary Actions
Either from ECAM if Avionics Smoke or QRH which includes donning of oxygen masks

Smoke Origin
Is it something obvious i.e. oven fire that can be isolated, if you can see it is air conditioning then go straight to the procedure

Revision 42 has taken away the shedding of busses to isolate the smoke, this has been replaced with Emergency Electrical config consider.
The reason for this is due to the possible permanent loss of DC1 & DC2 if at least one battery was charging.

The procedure to enter into the Emer Elec Config can be confusing because it says to follow ECAM without the Gen reset, all this means is that when you follow the ECAM, perform all of the items without the gen reset, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t put the gens back on before landing gear extension. Also the line about gravity feeding is not relevant as 1 pump in each wing is powered.

Overall you should be heading for an airport.

Removal

To summarise this procedure, you are trying to get down to FL100 or MEA so you can depressurise the cabin, get the packs off, the Ram air on and open the outflow valve.

Part of the checklist is badly written because it asks if you were in Emer Elec Config and then an indented line requesting the APU Master Switch on (only the master switch needs to go on, not start the APU, this connects the batteries to the battery bus providing control of the outflow valve).

Most people read the top line then say No not in Emer Elec Config and then skip the important part of the procedure, packs off, Ram air on and opening the outflow valve.

Regards

MF

[Wingswinger]

As a TRI/TRE can add this:

Note the top left item on 1.07, LAND ASAP. Get on oxygen, 100% and EMERG ASAP. You will have a split flight-deck - PF will initiate descent and diversion unmonitored and PNF will be carrying out the QRH procedure unmonitored. You will need to update each other on your situation frequently. Don't forget comms with the cabin crew - vital for information about a smoke source in the cabin. They are your eyes, ears and nose. Indeed a smoke incident may well start with a cabin emergency call.

If you are in ELEC EMER CONFIG, there will be a landing distance procedure to do which may restrict your choice of diversion airfield.

If you restore GEN 2 and GEN 1 Line, you will still be in Alternate Law (Prot Lost) going to Direct Law when the gear is down because 1R2 and 1R3 have been lost. Therefore, No AP, No ATHR.

Statistics show:

If the source is a cabin fire and the crew hasn't put it out within two minutes, they won't.

If you have a fire on board you have at best 14 minutes to land or ditch.

[Delta Papa]

Found it!!!, FCOM 3.02.26 P10 REV 41
"In EEC, when te APU Master sw is ON, the battery contactors will automatically close for a maximum of 3 minutes. This will enable the flight crew to manually control the outflow valves that are powered by the DC BAT BUS"

[dustypfd]

Hi, in our company we use the QRH for the Avionic smoke drill and not the ecam. This being the case you will not see any reminder that you have the optiion to swich Gen2 and Gen 1 line back on before you put the gear down. Am i correct in assuming the only reminder for this would be on status?
Also if you have just completed the emergency elec summary and then restore the gens, your landing distance will be completely different to what you planned. Better, but still different-seems strange.

[Man Flex 37.5]

Dusty

You will know that you are in EEC due to lack of Co-Pilot DU's + system display plus lack of lighting in general.

You are correct in that the landing distance initially required by either ECAM or QRH will be very different but safe if you switch the generators on before landing gear extension.

MF

[Jimmy Do Little]

The Flying Cokeman summed it up earlier. Always, do as the FCOM or OEM states. This way we keep ourselves from doing the "Carpet Dance" for the undesirables (Lawyers, Chief Pilot, etc)

[dustypfd]

Thanks man flex but that dosn't answer my first question. Normally we require a drill to follow be it ecam or QRH. It seems that in the avionic drill from the QRH (which we have to follow-not the ecam) that there is no step or reminder that tells you to reset gen 1 line and gen 2 before gear down. This does appear on ecam but you will not see that because you are not following it! Seems to me that you just have to remember that it is an option.