Emirates Hold Pool

[aapa]

hi folks

been told im in the holding pool..does any one have an idea how long this could probably be..or an idea on what sgoing on regarding future courses especially this year

thanks...

[BUSTRASH]

Im in the same boat with the holding pool. I have a class date with Qatar and kind of worried. I would hate to give up Qatar for a promise from Emirates and end up with nothing.

[Blurg]

aapa,
Is this pool for a training class? When did you interview? I interviewed in early June and haven't heard this news yet. Thanks

[Kenny]

Another one here in the pool.

Interviewed the last week of May. One guy who had a 2 week notice period has a class date at the end of September. Myself and another got the pool email, I'm on a months notice and he's on 3 months.

It was a relief to hear something but now I'm wondering if it's going to be a case of first in, first out. Or are they going to pick and choose??

[aapa]

help we need urgent info.....what does this mean hold pool has emirates done this before in the past i was interv. early may

[jack schidt]

Please calm down everyone. The demand here in EK for pilots is still huge!! The situation is that with the 777s delayed for a bit means that most of the training has been put onto the Airbus and there simply aren't the resources to cope with the numbers of student pilots. If you passed the interview you will get the job (I am sure), it is just a case of be patient until we can take you in as things are busy right now. I am in training and can tell you that with well over a hundered jets on order, we aren't going to be looking at layoffs, EK needs all the good people it can get. If EK is your choice, stay with it and time will go fast enough and you will be here. Ek has the money, attitude and ability to get through any downturn in aviation. I have been in aviation 24 years and these guys will be the last standing if airlines go bust.

See you soon in the pit.

JS

[sanctionedagain]

To answer aapa's question:
The holding pool concept is nothing new with Emirates so don't worry.

[aapa]

thanks chap

greatly appreciated.....things here in the uk don't look to good..

[jack schidt]

Stop being bitter please Brokenenglish and live in the real world. You should apply and get the invite before you give up your old job, so any out of work situation will be your doing (if that becomes the case). Besides the fact of the current global downturn, EK tickets I am sure will be competitively priced if it needs be AND you don't seem to realise that we are not just a charter/holiday passenger airline. There are the holiday makers, a lot of business people and a WHOLE LOT of near Asians who we move around the world. Along with that, the route structure and many other factors keep EK in a very competitive situation in any forecast downturn.

Stay cool, and blame the oil speculators and the lending banks for the mess of the global financial downturn, not airline recruiters, besides, the training and recruitment is still in place and there is not even a whisper of a rumour of freezing the training or such like.

I shall say no more on this thread!

[CRS]

I very rarely post on this website! But I have been in Ek for over five years and I would like to back up what Jack has said! I have 100% confidence in the airline management to weather this latest crisis!

During SARS for example we increased belly cargo loads to offset the lack of passengers and thus flight costs were more than covered!

I also personally believe by keeping up the expansion through this down turn EK will be extremely strong when the world economy recovers!

[White Knight]

You're right CRS - if the expansion goes on then EK will dominate when things start looking up...
All my recent flights are over 95% load factors, with lots of cargo down below...

[ocala]

Thanks Jack,

for your encouraging words.

Sometimes for no apparent reason doing nothing or if you want to put it in other words "be patient" seems to be the most difficult habbit to develop.

But it will pay off not only this time.
Damn sure.

Keep us informed+updated with your insights. Say more please...


ocala

[masalama]

it's good to hear a bit of sanity on this site...I'm in the pool and just wating for the news...take care all , hope for the best.:ok:

[gl69]

From the recruitment manager directly; all classes as of right now are full through the end of the year and there are only 40 openings through the end of the fiscal year which is end of March. Obviously that can change but that is where EK stands as of two days ago.
Seems they did a good job with selling Emirates to the commuter pilots in the states because that is the bulk of the classes. Pilots getting furloughed in the states now will have to wait awhile before coming but hopefully everything will turn around by then and maybe they won't get laid off.

[BUSTRASH]

If there are only 40 openings in till the end of march why havent the guys being put in a holding pool been assinged one of those openings. Why is EK still interviewing and getting all our hopes up. Are we gonna be on standby just in case the regional guys dont show up or are they waiting to see if they can get "better" candidates. If you could ask the recruiting manager that question that would be great.

[BUSTRASH]

Any news on the hold pool. Has anyone been pulled out or advised a possible class date. is there any specific order people will be pulled out of the pool or will it be handpicked.
Thanks

[QAR]

bustrash,

to have a confirm qatar offer and waiting for a ek standby is a hard thing...personally will go for the confirm one but at the end of the day its your choice and how much you want to join ek


I heard from a ek insider that all courses are filled up till march 2009.

They are giving start date to guys based on points scored on in the interview.

which means this they are calling guys who did very well first and putting guys who just passed in a pool.

I dont know mate this is what i heard....could anyone confirm this??

[Schnowzer]

I was told they have suspended flight deck recruitment as a way of reducing costs. The fuel price is hurting and the only way to turn a profit is to get guys to work harder.

[Kenny]

Got an email from HR this morning;

Classes are indeed filled up for the rest of the calender year and those in the pool should expect a class date in the first quarter '08. :mad:

Not sure about a points system, though.

[jessiej]

hi guys
anybody's got out of the holding pool??

I'm still waiting!!:{

[Peebee and Jay]

I interviewed mid June. Received e-mail from EK HR in July. Last thing I heard from them. Still waiting. All the best.

PB&J

[FLChamp]

Recruitment Update-
Even though the word has spread that we are taking a break from pilot recruitment, the number of applications are still quite high.
We expect a decision on when we will recommence pilot recruitment for Emirates in the next week or two.
Many of our pilots have recommended former colleagues to us. Thank you, this is highly appreciated and strongly encouraged.

last word guys on recruitment !!;)

[stop, stop, stop]

Would you guys/gals in the Emirates Hold Pool who interviewed this year mind sharing what experience you have/had?

Minimums on the website are one thing, but with the excess of crews at the moment it would be nice to know just what sort of experience the successful 'Emirates wannabees' have.

Cheers,

SSS

[masalama]

attended the mid may interview and there are 5 from our group in the pool , everyone's got the same mail....first quarter of 2009... all the best to pool swimmers....:ok:
masalama.

[max magic]

Hi SSS

I interviewed in feb and have started with EK now, to answer your question the least experienced guy in my group had 4300 hrs !.. myself, 5000 with heavy airbus time .. EK wont even entertain you with anything less than 4000and i think minimum of 2500 hrs jet ... I expect with the layoffs in europe and US, its even more competitive now ..

Best of luck..

Max

[stop, stop, stop]

Cheers Max. That helps a lot!

SSS

[mikehagen]

I was told by EK Recruitment that succesful candidate status is valid for 1 YEAR ONLY (waiting pool purposes included). The clock begins to tick the last day of the succesful interview. After a year passes, the candidate MUST interview again.

Does anybody here knows what exactly the pool candidate is supposed to do before the year passes and thus his succesful candidate "membership" expires?

Some suggest to get assigned a class date?

Others suggest that by expiration date the candidate must have started training? (case in which some of us would be in danger of loosing the succesful status if we don't get called prior to expiration date, especially those of us who interviewed in 1Q 2008)

Anyone?

[Kenny]

Mike,

My man on the inside at EK says he asked an HR contact about the year expiration and the current delays with course dates for the poolies. Apparently it's been discussed within HR and the general consensus at the moment is that a lot of time, effort and $$ were put into the poolies. Therefore, the 12 months will be probably be waived. However, how long you get over the 12 months is anyone's guess....1 month, 2, etc.

My clock has 8 months to run but if we end up talking about an Apr/May course date, it'll be bloody close.

[Fart Master]

Recruitment is starting up again in 1-2 weeks.... from the latest newsletter

[skyvan]

No Fartmaster, recruitment will not start in 1-2 weeks, but the decision will be made within 1-2 weeks on when to re-start the recruitment.

The recruitment team feel that the recruitment should carry-on, at a reduced rate, so that when the Boeing factory strike ends and Airbus get those Fantastique Plastiques moving, we will not be caught short. The Flight-ops recruitment team are trying to motivate the HR recruitment team to understand that pilots are unlike ground-dwellers, but it is a bit of an uphill battle, it's all about perceptions.

To all in the pool, the 12 month limits will be individually assessed, so just keep you Recuitment contact updated as to your hours and types, and so long as you are working you should (not guaranteed, but should) get a few months stretch to the limit.

Good luck all, at least by the time you get here you'll be able to move directly into your villas!

[jessiej]

Hi guys,
does any swimmer got out of the pool?any news?first quarter of 2009 is coming but no news from me!!!!

bye

[Bavarian]

Nope, not here, but anxiously awaiting the call as is everyone else. Was told in a Sept email to expect news by the end of the calendar year. Have been patiently waiting since June.

[brewman187]

also still waiting patiently, told "towards the end of the year the will contact", so hopefully that means this month sometime and not January--does anyone know how the courses will be allocated, as far your interview date, or age, or how well you did in your interview? keep kicking those feet and try to stay afloat guys :E

[Bavarian]

Good question brewman. Don't know the answer to that one. There is certainly enough speculation. Obviously it will be need-based. It would appear however, that people will mostly stay with the manufacturer. That is prior Boeing pilots seem to have been placed on Boeing and Airbus personnel on Airbus. Other, whatever is needed. Like everybody else I had heard the rumors about a point system. I am not sure if it is true or not, but in either event it is a moot point now. Fairly certain seems however, that the January class is full. I just hope there won't be any major fall-out from the impact of the financial crisis on Dubai for Emirates. Their succuss appears interdependent. Talk to you later. Bavarian.

[Kenny]

Guys,

I posted on another thread a while back, that apparently of those in the holding pool, there are 3 groups:

Those that are typed (I took this to refer to guys that have Airbus/Boeing time).

Those that are not typed but have a wealth of experience and scored highly throughout the selection process. Not sure what amount of time would be needed to be included in this group.

And the rest.

All the information came from a good mate of mine who's next door neighbour is in HR. Whether EK still intends to assign course dates based on this criteria is anyone's guess but at this stage, I think all any of us can do is just wait and see.

Personally, I think the first of the poolies to be called for course dates will either hear this month or at the beginning of Jan. They've got the A310 guys going through 777 courses in Jan, so the first available dates would be in Feb.

[Bavarian]

Good info, Kenny. Thanks. When were you interviewed?

[Kenny]

End of May.

[Bavarian]

End of May.Same here. Just read on AIR INC that EK hired 3 in Nov and 5 in Dec. Suppose that we're talking DECs or successful interviewees that have joined the "pool."

[Kenny]

If that article in Air Inc is the same Air Inc run by Kit Darby, I wouldn't believe a word that's written in it. The man has his head so far up his @rse, it's not funny.

I know of an ex-Frontier guy that was supposed be on a Nov course, that was CX'd. I suppose they could have been DEC's or guys that had problems with their refs.

[Bavarian]

Yes perhaps. I just hope that we will be contacted soon. Emirates has good protocol and follow up. So I do expect that we will hear something very soon. I am also curious to see if changes will be made to our contract in light of possible measures to reduce overhead.

[bluedun]

Anything new? 15 days and counting. Sure would be a nice Christmas present.:}

Bluedun

[kashima]

I have heard nothing, just that all of in the pool will be getting calls soon. The pool will be empty by June 09'. Most experienced time in Boeing/Airbus go first.
It is just the waiting game now. Im sure we will hear when that first lucky charm gets the letter or call.:)

[Kenny]

Gents,

Crack a cold one and enjoy your Christmas and New Year. I very much doubt any of us are going to hear anything in the next 2 weeks.

[Bavarian]

Does anybody have any reasonable guesses as to how many of us really are in the pool? So far I had heard everything from 100-300.

[Mr.Shaft]

Last I heard around 110 or so, but definetly not more than 150. Hope we do get a call and get with it.

[brassplate]

what are you guys fussing about? the global bubble has burst and whatever dreams you have in reviving your avaitions careers will be short lived when you come to the middle east. sooner than later, the region will implode!

[kingpost]

Bavarian

There's plenty of you in the pool, in fact that pool could shortly overflow.

If you're not type rated or have some real good heavy time you'll find that you will move closer to the deep end. There's been a huge change in the experience level applying.

Good luck

[Bavarian]

There's plenty of you in the pool, in fact that pool could shortly overflow.Okay. Is the source of this data fairly reliable and do you have a number of poolies?

[skmarz]

Just curious, I got re-invited for a February interview (I was one of the interviewees who had their September interview cancelled). Why are they interviewing again if the pool is so full and not likely to get drained? They actually sent me my ticket this time, which is further along then I got last time.

[AFD]

hy
what kind of airplane are you rated for?
thanks

[Bavarian]

...whatever dreams you have in reviving your avaitions careers will be short lived when you come to the middle east. sooner than later, the region will implode!It is correct to say that the global economic bubble has burst. However, visions of global doom and the middle east's financial demise are likely far exaggerated. Due to the explosive growth of several middle eastern nations and the shear infinite wealth when compared to most industrialized or G1 nations, it is perhaps more accurate to talk about a long overdue financial self-correction, particularly in Dubai. Real estate value, as admitted by most experts, rose unproportionaly and in fact needed to be brought back under control. The fall from economic grace appears more dramatic than that of other nations simply because countries like the UAE, until now, seemed immune to market fluctuations. Put another way: we are simply not used to negative financial data from oil-rich middle east and and such news is much amplified but perhaps not accurate. The loss of $100.000 is not the same to Warren Buffet as it is to your average retiree. When we look at the meteoric succuss of Dubai, as evidenced by the massive building boom and the explosive yet calculated growth of EK, it was almost obscene considering that many economies and most established carriers are struggling just to stay afloat. This is not just wishful thinking of a delusional dreamer. Yes, EK has a problem and the financial interdependency between it and Dubai is one. But fact is that when you look in detail at all the reports that have come out since the news about financial difficulties made the rounds, we are talking about reduced growth not losses. EK for instance incurred in terms of percentage points a large loss, yet is still profitable. The housing market has not nearly bottomed out but has merely slowed. Tourism experts agree that Dubai has to undertake a temporary shift in its marketing to still attract customers and be profitable. Emirates and Etihad are very well respected, solid airlines with elaborate and profitable networks in an era were world travel is only increasing. Both carriers are geostrategically located and air travel will not decrease. With regard to Abu Dhabi, let's not forget that it too is experiencing the pinch of the economic crisis. It's oil reserves alone won't be enough and it lags far behind DXB in its urban and tourist development.

[Bavarian]

I got re-invited for a February interview (I was one of the interviewees who had their September interview cancelled). Why are they interviewing again if the pool is so full and not likely to get drained?

I believe that is good news for all of us and matches what I had heard in the last few days.

[Mr.Shaft]

Bav....great post, I must say. That's why I'm willing to let go 11 years here with a major airline for Emirates.

[Bavarian]

Thanks Mr. Shaft. BTW: I know what it feels like. Had 10.5 with mine before I bailed out. I am convinced it will work out for us in the long run. :ok:

[Ed's Talking Horse]

Enjoy your temporary accomodation, your families are gonna love it!!!!! (not)
Divorce and spearation have become a reality for quite a few families over the awful accomodation problems.
Don't moan and say you weren't warned!

Ed's Talking Horse

[Bavarian]

Enjoy your temporary accomodation, your families are gonna love it!!!!! (not)I don't share the concern about temporary accommodations. It is 'temporary' after all and free to boot as is the permanent housing. Complaining about that strikes me as akin to complaining about having to study to become a doctor. Success is defined by perserverance, tenacity and the sacrifices one is willing to make. I can think of any number of neighborhoods in North America I don't even want to visit much less reside in. With regard to DXB, I choose not to be held captive by that as a constraint. The opportunity to experience another culture and live in yet another country whilst flying wide bodies for a preeminent carrier is in itself rewarding enough. The rest is gravy. I realize that not everything will be quite as glamorous as it is has been marketed. But being offered what EK is offering even on a smaller scale is, in my opinion, a tremendous luxury.

[dessertdude]

Looks like we have a new applicant for the deputy assisant of the deputy chief pilot or chief instructor or what ever.

Go East young man, go east Bavarian my friend:ok:

[Mr.Shaft]

I agree with you Bav......It will take time and effort to settle down, but once that is behind you it will be okay! I have seen it with my brother-in-law. He has been their for nearly 3 1/2 years and they've adjusted quite well and living better that what they had before. As we speak, he is upgrading right now to Captain on Boeing 777. I believe it is how you take it! It will not be like the States but it takes time to adjust and know your way around. Anywhere you go, their are those who just look at the cup half empty!!!!!

[BigGeordie]

It is a common misconception that the accommodation, temporary or otherwise, is "free". It isn't. If you move out of company accommodation you get a "utility allowance" of about 150,000 Dhs (US$40,900) for an F/O (I think), about 180,000 Dhs for a Captain. That is the cost of your "free" accommodation and is worth bearing in mind if you end up in a disintegrating two bedroom flat in Deira. The permanent accommodation would cost you way, way more than 200,000 Dhs in the open market so it is a very good deal. But it is not free.

[Bavarian]

I believe it is how you take it! It will not be like the States but it takes time to adjust and know your way around.Thanks Mr. Shaft. I couldn't agree more; that is exactly what I wanted to express and the only thing I wanted to express.

[nolimitholdem]

I realize that not everything will be quite as glamorous as it is has been marketed.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I have a small device attached to my computer that measures understatement and it just exploded!!

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!! omigod that is funny! *wipes tears from eyes*

Dubai is the World Capital of bull****, the absolute only area it excels in is self-promotion. Yes, there is opportunity, and yes, there is even some money to be made. But unless you come from somewhere like SA where you've gotten tired of having a gun stuck in your face, or Zim where you've had your property stolen and your family killed, I wouldn't get too anticipatory about all the "culture" you're going to drink in...DXB is where culture goes to die, where even the celebration of crass is cynical, where Las Vegas looks tasteful and wholesome by comparison. Buying a Guggenheim and a Louvre (if that even happens now) is not "culture". Malls are not "culture". Greed, selfishness and lies are, I suppose, but I'm guessing that's not what you're looking forward to?

Anyway do be sure to post again AFTER you join!

[IDbackcountry]

I have to admit "where culture goes to die" is pretty funny but going back to the thread, has anyone in the pool heard anything? I interviewed end of June and it's been quiet. Not that it doesn't surprise me with the world economy....

[Mr.Shaft]

Hopefully 10 days and counting......I'm wondering the same thing. I have a feeling it won't be til next early year.

[Thylakoid]

I believe reading something a week ago, about EK retaking the hiring as of Feb 2009. People in the holding pool should just be patient. The Chairman voiced his views as well, saying that EK will continue with the expansion, despite the global economic turmoil.

Living in Dubai, driving around, dealing with the different nationalities, requires a great deal of patience and common sense. :E

[kingpost]

Bavarian

You were warned, your job application has been denied due to the post already filled for the assistant chief pilot.

Don't let us ever here you moan whilst you're in EK - that's if you get in of course.

Good luck

[skyvan]

A gentle heads-up for the more experienced in the pool, the current time for command is 3 years and 4 months, and is expected to increase due to the reduced intake next year, and the slow pace of people leaving due to the world situation.

Therefore even if you do meet the Accelerated Command requirements, you are unlikely to get a command any earlier than your coursemates. Quite a few of us were told that we meet the AC requirements, and should expect commands within 18-24 months, but with so little movement we can now expect command at about 48 months.

Remember, when you join, there are over 1200 First Officers ahead of you on the Seniority List. Intakes were planned at 450-550 pilots per year at the beginning of this year, now next year's intake is apparently planned at 150.

If you are out of work, or soon about to be, then this is still a good place. But if your job is secure, think once again if the major upheaval for you, and more importantly, your family is worth it.

Good luck, I hope things move quickly for all of you in the pool (and those trying to get in!!)

[anit skid]

I just received notification of an interview in Feb. Anyone else?? Also, any current pilots with accurate lifestyle/working conditions update? What are EK's plans for the future? I'm being furloughed in Feb, and so far this looks like the only opportunity. Any info would be greatly appreciated...

[AFD]

which kind of airplane are you rated for at the moment?
whend did you aplied?
how long didi you wait before hearing something from ek?
thank you very much

[anit skid]

B767
July 2008
This is the first thing I heard from them. I did update my flying hours in Oct.

Hope this is good news...

[Mr.Shaft]

Job security? Well, I just got downgraded to an F/O position after 4 years as a Captain at an airline here in the US. Huge pay cut and kids are almost ready for preschool. Seeing EK's benefits, I just can't turn my back and walk away. In addition, tax free income and a world class airline, atleast comparing with any airline in the States.

[anit skid]

Mr Shaft,

If your being downgraded, why will they need to interview/hire in the coming year? Aside from housing, schools, and tax free income. what are the other benefits that weigh into the equation? What is the current housing situation; seems like that is a continual complaint?

Thanks for your help

AS

[Mr.Shaft]

Anti skid......I'm here in the States with a major airline.....I actually interviewed with EK and I'm currently placed in hiring pool. We were told to expect a course date before the end of the year.

[drnetsurfer]

I think the fine print on the course dates at Emirates probably read + or - the end of the year. Based on what some of the gents who work for Emirates say on this site, I think Emirates may do whatever they want not unlike most airlines. So, I am sure it's coming for you guys and gals. But don't be disappointment if it doesn't exactly come before Dec 31st.

[atpcliff]

Hi!

"Culture" in Dubai?

I have a buddy who went to EK. Hated EK, hated Dubai, etc., etc. He is American and mostly single.

Another buddy is European, wife is American. They LOVE Emirates, they love Dubai. They don't have kids.

I would like it, and I would like for my family to live there, and my kids to go to school there.

cliff
GRB

[ironbutt57]

Life anywhere in the world is what you make it...

[skmarz]

FWIW, I got re-invited for early February interview (was scheduled in September, all interviews xld at the time). I'm currently on the 767/757 but have also got a lot of hours on the A320/A319. Currently at a legacy, 9,500 TT, 1,000 PIC (727), applied for an FO position.

[ataboy]

Okay Folks here is an up-to-date picture of things at Emirates as I write this email (could change by tomorrow!!)

For the guys/gals in North America I believe it is a good move (that is my own opinion) especially in a legacy carrier with a seniority system. Now this depends on what you want out of your career. If you are happy with you current lifestyle and the priority is on where you live, stay where you are. Dubai (at times) can be a challenging place to live especially if you are from the Western world. The level of incompetence with various employment sectors is sometime mind-boggling. I wonder sometimes how this place functions on a regular basis, but it does, in it's own unique way. If your career paths has you wanting to flying large aircraft to a wide spectrum of destinations (from third world to first world), Emirates is the place. The equipment is great (with lot's of on-board toys), and the cabin crew are great to work with. Not the place for someone who's marriage is on the rock, if you know what I mean :ok:

As far as the housing situation goes, basically it is a mess. From what I am told from guys I work with, there is still a little over 100 pilots in temporary accommodations and and no end in sight. One question I would ask if you do interview is, "can you show me the villa's the latest round of new-hires were "assigned". That could be a deal breaker from the candidates point-of-view. The next round of villa's in the choice areas appears to be around mid-2009. Like everything in Dubai, it is a 50-50 chance, that those projects will be pushed back until the end of 2009 considering the current financial situation in Dubai itself. My advise would be to leave the family at home until you have a move in date. It will save you a lot of stress, yes, even more than if you commuted back and forth until the accommodation issue is resolved. I must admit, it is nice not having a mortgage and utility payment every month.

The fleet assignment. If you get Airbus, expect a lot of sub-continent turns (India, Pakistan, etc) in the bottom big groups in the over-night hours, with 8-10 days off per-month. While it is not a lot of days off, you are home a lot. In the tops groups expect a better sked to places like Europe, etc. Once you are CCQ on the A340 the roster should improve even further. If you get Boeing, well the roster is just better because of the long-haul type flying the aircraft does.

The working conditions. They have their moments, but then again, every airline does, and I have yet to encounter an airline where everyone is happy (unless they are all on drugs :eek:). Even though there is no union, they are an okay bunch to work for and I will give them credit (where credit is due). They are not laying-off even when they are a little fat, they are still taking delivery of new aircraft, and are still looking to expand in 2009 where most other carriers on cutting back. Looks like they taking advantage of their competitions weakness in challenging times, like any smart business operation would. I do like working for a group that can quickly adjust to a changing market-place and not have to get "approval" from the "unions".

Family life. Well it is what you make it. Some people love it and some hate it. It all depends on your mind-set. One thing to remember, you are here for a good time, not a life-time. The schooling for the little ones is great and you do not need to worry about them getting shot in the school yard or going through metal-detectors when they enter the school. They will be exposed to a wide-range of different cultures, which is an education in itself. As far as the driving goes, the only word I can thing of is "Valium". There is road rage here, but not the shot at you type, just a lot of yelling (and if you do not speak the language, it is all babble anyways). The police and transit authority are trying to curb the driving issue, but it will take time.

So for those considering coming, you have the facts. There is lots of opportunity here, but Dubai is not the place for everybody. Personally, it was the right move so far for my family, earlier retirement, and some great life experiences.

Good luck to all with your decision.

[cr7driver]

What are the chances of guy like me getting a call from Emirates?
6800TT 1700 B-747 of which 500 is on the 747-400.
Thanks

[Mr.Shaft]

Those in the pool......received an email to expect HR update this week...hope that's the case.

[Bavarian]

Thanks ataboy. Great post. Factual, balanced and will help to make the decision.

[Bavarian]

...received an email to expect HR update this week...

Great news Mr. Shaft. Hope to receive the same.

[kingpost]

Unless you've applied - none!

Check the website to see what the requirements are, you need 2000 hours multi jet hours.

[mensaboy]

Excellent and accurate post Attaboy.

One issue you left out is the general decline of T&C's. This is not normally an issue with new-hires because everyone approaches a new job with wide-eyed enthusiasm (especially when flying great equipment on a good route structure) But over time it becomes a huge issue. For example, the inadequate crew rest facilities and the absurd rostering practices will wear you down over time. Unfortunately, the trend is to further push the envelope in those regards.

I would like to emphasize what I think are some important issues.

Family is first. If there is any apprehension in those regards, then make sure you investigate every single aspect of Dubai/EK life before you come. Do not delude yourself, if your wife or kids are not happy, then you are screwed. (kids are not usually the problem, but a serious complication if there is a problem)

Your current situation is another issue. If things are acceptable in your present job and location, then be forewarned... You have no recourse when you are wronged in Dubai. That applies to your personal and professional life. The insanity of 'different laws for different individuals' only affects about 20% of pilots here, but sometimes it turns into a nightmare. Do not think assume that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Only come here if your prospects do not look good where you are now.

Attaboy mentioned the annoyance and frustration of trying to get anything done in this city (and the company to a lesser extent). It will certainly drive you bananas but over time if you have a sense of humor, the incompetence, stupidity and lack of understanding of how to deal with people, will provide you will endless topics of discussion over a few pints.

Another point, that no one ever mentions, is that once an expat pilot, always an expat pilot. This fact should not be taken lightly. There are exceptions but once you leave home to work as an expat pilot, the odds of returning home to a good job are quite small. For most pilots this is not a problem but carefully consider it.

One last point I wish to make is that management will not support you. The company does quite well with respect to events such as illness/injury, medical care or a family death, but otherwise they will do nothing to solve a problem. The entire purpose of our immediate bosses is to fill a regulatory required position. They are excellent at frustrating the hell out of people to the point they stop requesting help in a particular situation. They are hired based on that criteria, so do not expect anything more.

If you come to this place, have a sense of humor. There are excellent rewards to come here, but there are pitfalls too. For me, I am quite happy. But the general approach to dealing with issues that affect pilots operationally and personally, has to be improved. I have days each month when I detest this place and just want to leave, but then I consider what I would be doing back home now.

I think it is fair to say that EK is not what it used to be. Then again, all of aviation is not what it used to be. It is not such an easy decision nowadays, in spite of the present economic upheaval around the world.

[Gosse]

Did anyone else get the letter today? It looks like we might not get a class date until the second quarter of the year? Some of the people might not get the class date at all, because there one year will be up and there not currently flying? Any info?

[gonzalo727]

We thank you for your continued patience in awaiting news...... plus bla, bla bla.....
Very :( but if you have a job :) say thanks to the big Bosssss

[Kenny]

The 2 things that came to mind reading the email this morning:

Whether you get out of the pool will depend on if you are currently flying. Also, if they're not going to offer course dates until April/May, it'll mean most in the pool will be extremely close, if not past their one year expiry.

They started the pool in May and stopped interviewing in what, mid-July? If the "successful completion of the selection process" starts when you get the thumbs up email, then the latest poolies run out of time in August?

Not the news I wanted to hear but 'nowt any of us can do about it.

[forum newbie]

So why is emirates starting to interview in february if they delay the course dates? I understand the letter regarding a class date but do not really understand the logistics about commencing interviews with an overabundance of pilots in the pool.

[Kenny]

So why is emirates starting to interview in february if they delay the course dates? I understand the letter regarding a class date but do not really understand the logistics about commencing interviews with an overabundance

As much as I would prefer for EK to offer course dates to all the Poolies before anyone else, the cynic in me says that they're interviewing in Feb for 2 reasons. Firstly they can. It'll give them more options. And secondly, there's an abundance of Boeing/Airbus pilots that find themselves in circumstances that mean they're falling all over themselves to get a shot at EK.

Basically, I think this email was a prelude to letting those know, who aren't as well qualified as others in the pool, that it isn't going to happen.

[Fubaliera]

It seems to me there gonna interview ex excel guys with widebody and miderange size experience, leave the crj and erj boys in the pool swimming. When the sheet hits the fan its nice to see how they operate. Ehtihad has also put guys on hold, hmmmm maybe a merger, I guess Qatar airways isnt so bad after all.

[kashima]

It is evident and very clear some of the guys in the pool will not get a class date anytime soon. I believe the selection out of the pool will be those who have boeing and airbus time first....over 2500 hrs. Like you all said, the rest left for swimming.
Does anyone know what the number is for projected classes? I am assuming 150 in the pool. What was the history for the number of pilots per class? Im thinking maybe 20 per class for April, May, June.
Keep your head up.

[Obbie]

Why would they be so interested in pilots who just 9 months ago
had no desire or interest to work for EK at all.

Are these really the type of people they want ?
Working there not because they want to, but because they have to ?

They will leave at the first sign of better times.

They seemed much more concerned with finding the right personality
fit rather than just aircraft experience during the whole selection process.

At least thats how it seemed to me.

They sent 2 guys packing back to their 747 jobs from my class, yet all
the CRJ pilots that were there are now in the pool.

I guess time will tell.

[emratty]

For those who are in the hold pool there are 64 pilots ( captains and first officers) going to be transferred from the A330 to the 777 and no recruitment on the A330 to replace these pilots. The plan was to recruit 150 this year however with the slowdown in deliveries due to the Boeing strike combined with the recession and the slipping of the next batch of A380 deliveries the number of new pilots required will be small.
If you have significant time in Boeing aircraft then you will have the best chance of being called.

[forum newbie]

Obbie,

I agree with you. True that the crj/erj pilots have less experience and will have a tougher time in training but like everything else, hard work and perserverence will ensure that they will get through training. It has happened before and will continue to happen when the world economy picks up. The sad reality is that many of the people that are interested now were never interested a year ago. So why punish the individuals who studied, applied, and took the initiative to apply at emirates when countless other airlines were hiring. I was given a job offer at both united and jetblue, but my desire was to work for emirates. I did not want to take the risk and go to a career that was showing prosperity but had limited future prospects (united).

The question is that does emirates look at what kind of employee a person is after they past training or are they looking for someone that can just fill a roster that had no intention of applying when times were good but are now desperate for a job? I personally have never heard of a company that offers a position but yanks it as soon as better prospects arrive.

Its analogous to getting married but a few months later, one decides to go with the better looking person that offers great sex but little long term growth. :E.

This post is not directed to any of the people that are applying; but instead, to the people who are making the decisions that affects so many of us.

fn

[williewalsh]

Gentlemen,

The chaps that are now available are not desperate. They do have large boeing time, JAR licences, which means familiarity with EKs JAR compliance and eu ops.Not a pissing contest just the hard facts.
They are a safer bet. True they do need jobs and so will be less inclined to moan about accomodation allocations,and prompt confrontations because they dont have a nice garden in little america, oops I mean Silicon.

Now some of those guys who applied recently have been called for interview.
Bottom line.....A 767 pilot from a Jar operation and standard boeing time is easier to train,. Ill wager EK wont care about motivation because these guys will commit. Europe is in a mess. They will stay the five years.

Flydubai targeted ex employees of a EU airline while delaying or cancelling all ready scheduled interviews.

Its business not touchy feely.Exploit resources.
As it stands now that resource is Europe, earlier this year it was US.
Good luck anyway

[kingoftheslipstream]

kashima

I think the intake is around 8 pilots per course, and one course per week which is about 32 per month. this is a guess based on recent history, which is admittedly a bit dated due to the slowdown.

[Fubaliera]

williewash so the Eu guys dont complain . Hahahahahahahahaha. Its not called exploiting resourses. Its called screwing people and helping your own. All of a sudden the poolies arent good enough.

[kashima]

Thanks for the info. Hard to put all the numbers together, but fun to guess...i guess?:bored:

[lalo737]

ANY NEWS FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE POOL????:confused:

[fatbus]

No hiring until atleast june, over staffed on the 777 and no new Airbus until late summer

[Fubaliera]

According to a Ek sim instructor. Only 50 pilots and no CRJ/ERJ guys unfortunatley. In other words there hiring 450 less than previously planned. You never know

[elpollo]

At this stage, we have no confirmation on the training courses but we are not expecting the training courses to resume before June. We will only confirm the update once we have the training schedule finalized.
Once again, thank you for the patience and your continued interest in Emirates.

Latest on EK holding pool

[kashima]

What happened to April? I got an email saying April, May, June classes possibly. What are they waiting for to schedule training classes? I was also informed that training contract will start going out in Feb. Can anyone confirm this?

[kingpost]

Gents

The pool has just got deeper!! Brace yourselves

[fatbus]

boeing strike and a further delay on 380 num 5 has Apr slide to June. Manpower planning(dont think there is any planning) suddenly had to many pilots. Some route/eqpmt might change with loads even some airplanes parked for a short while

[Constant Speed DU]

I have just heard that Emirates are offering pilots unpaid leave? Any info out there?

[PositiveRate876]

Rumour # 09-03

Busted.

[Fubaliera]

Emirates is gonna let everybody in the holding pool expire and hanpick and reinterview the 50 guys tjhey want for this year.

[Obbie]

And you know this because...........?

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Surplus AB pilots going to the Boeing to cover the first six months of Boeing deliveries this year. New hire classes to start in June. 112 pilots to be hired this year, 56 AB 56 Boeing. (as of last week, don't be surprised if it changes). Didn't here anything about CRJ/ERJ pilots.

[Billy Madrid]

"The 777 freighter deliveries will help."

Just heard they (777F) and the 748F might not be coming. Just a rumour..

[brewman187]

To all in the hold pool. Spoke with HR last nigt on phone and was told that budget meetings are finishing up and they should have course allocations completed by end of Jan. or first part of Feb. She also told me that they were going to allocate dates based on when you interviewed. For example I interviewed in June and she told me that an October class wasn't out of the picture. Also, the 1 year validity period will be extended as long as you are still flying. She said the rumors of not taking the pilots in the hold pool is not true. The only truth to it is, unfortunately for the guys that might not be flying, if they are over the year then they might not be offered course dates. Hope this helps everyone. Just an FYI, I think she told me that there are guys in the pool from last Jan. so these people will obviously get the first course dates, which she said will be June.

[fatbus]

The plan for 2009/10 is just about done ( fleet update today )

No interviews til june
Enough Poolies to fill slots this year but bottom poolies could side downwards when interviews start. You do get graded and listed top to bottom depending on how you did durring the interview and your flying background.

Upgrades will slow but this has not been the first time there has been a slow down in hiring. Last time was fall 04, those guys on the bus just upgraded.

2400 pilots now you need 4800 to upgrade, dont think the plan as we know it( lonely line guy) has that many.

DEC's. hope not but will happen, bitching about does you no good
More bad news to follow im sure

I think training is down 60% for this coming year 2009/10

[orientaldriver]

I have been in holding pool since August 2008(screening May 2008) and received an email in December stating that they might not give me a starting date before the expiry of my screening (May 2009) but could consider extension in special cases... No ideas about scoring points at the interview.

[forum newbie]

Brewbman spoke to hr and mentioned that people would be given class dates based on when they interviewed.

Fatbus says that people would be given class dates based on their ranking and aircraft flown.

So who should i believe?

[kashima]

I was told by hr, that it would be a combination of both. Hire date and experience.
Jan. interview with a crj pilot? vs. a July interview with 5000hr airbus time? Dont know which one they would pick. I'm guessing Airbus guy.

[skyvan]

Guys, if you are coming across, just be aware of the problems with the promised villas, which do make up part of your package.The truth of the matter is that the FOs at EK are supposed to get housing, but the accommodation is a stuff up at the moment, pilots who joined from Februaury last year are still in temporary housing (apartments or ramshackle villas), with no sign of any permanent accom on the horizon. When villas do come available, they are allocated without any form of adherence to the seniority list. Even the flight-ops manager who puts out a weekly "update" is not told about them, so we all live like mushrooms

We would be better off if they had told us up front that they were incapable of delivering on the glossy pre-employment ads , then we could still be in our home countries instead of battling to keep our families together due to the terrible impermanance of this setup. Pity they also only allow us a pittance to find our own accommodation, it will hardly find a hamster cage even in these trying times!

So guys, you are forewarned, when you have been in temporary accommodation for 9 months, and your wife is going mental and your kids start to display signs of anti-social behaviour (real things which are showing now!) you cannot say that you did not know, unlike the rest of us poor sods who were hoodwinked! A few weeks in temp they told us :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[john negussie]

skyvan....what do you suppose we do if offered a contract?

[skyvan]

John,

I can't answer that one for you. You must just be aware that the promised villa may well not occur for quite a while. I was advised only tonight of yet another of my coursemates who is having marital problems since arriving here, a major part of the problem is the lack of permanent housing for us.

All I can say is...if you are in a job at the moment, and are coming here for the bigger plane only, then think if the plane is worth your marriage. The strain you will be placed under, due to no fault of your own, is tremendous. If you don't have a job, or you are about to be laid off, sure, then come along, as this is better than no work at all.

Good luck in your decisionmaking. If you are aware of some of the pitfalls along the way, and your family is as well, you may be able to somehow prepare yourself.

[kashima]

No one can give you the answer. If your single it is a lot easier, all you have to worry about it yourself. Hopefully you know yourself and your limits. If your moving a family, consider the worst, and talk it over with your wife. My advice is do not go if your wife has not been there to see the culture, housing etc. You will really be in the dog house if she gets there and hates it and cannot cope. No job is worth you marriage. Be smart!

[kashima]

Any word on contracts for those in the holding pool? Is June still forcasted for training classes?

[Bavarian]

Is June still forcasted for training classes? To the best of my understanding "yes", but I also heard as late as September. Apparently depends on currency.

[takisdro]

February is almost over.Any news for the guys still swimming?

[orientaldriver]

Nothing at all....screening in May 2008!! Good luck

[Kenny]

Considering the recent changes in rostering and overtime, I think it's fairly safe to say the requirement for new courses just got pushed back even further.

Personally, I'm not holding out much hope at this point that I'll get out of the pool but it is aviation and minor miracles have been known to happen

[kingoftheslipstream]

Ladies 'n Gents

Let me make this perfectly clear fer y'all. Villasare no longer provided by Emirates, despite what it says on the papers y'all are gonna sign.

A villa is a stand alone building. A house to folks from north 'merica. What EK's offerin is, in almost all cases these days is a duplex or mulitple family dwelling. Think welfare housin' from Surrey. I've said it before an' I'll say it agin... it's one step outta tha trailer park.

The company is not payin' fer even these kinds of digs at the moment. There's been a little movement, but the locations are terrible. This Mirdiff area is right on the east side a tha airport. It's noisy as hell. Smells like sewage when the wind ain't blowin. It's a nightmare.

Think about the new work rules long and hard: we're facin' down 92 hour blocks startin' 01 Apr. (That ain't no April Fools joke at all). The rules here are terrible. I honestly didn't think that it could git any worse, but it has. It's frickin brutal...

[williewalsh]

King,
Sir you talk out of your arse. :ok:

[Dropp the Pilot]

Talking out of his arse!

Finally, a plausible explanation for his annoying inability to pronounce the letter "g"........

[halas]

For what ever reason, have been told it's DEWA who are dragging the chain on the releasing of the hundreds of Villas that EK are already paying rent on.

Not sure how that works as DEWA, as far as l am aware is part of the Dubai municipality, which in turn is part of Dubai Government, therefor a sister outfit to EK, no? And who are they paying rent to, the government real estate company?

All looks as logical as our recent T & C "adjustments"

halas

DEWA = Dubai Electricity & Water Authority (Note the subtle lack of inclusion of sewerage :hmm: )

[takisdro]

So,for us guys in the pool,it's not important if they call us,it is if we should take it or not.Something to keep thinking about!

[kashima]

My question is;
Since Dubai is in such a recession and the housing bubble has burst as in the US, why aren't any of the pilots taking advantage of the market and buying there own property? Is Emirates still offering money if you opt out of company housing?

I think all those in the pool have read and heard enough about the housing disaster. There is no one to blame but yourself if you choose Emirates and become another number in line as far as housing goes. Choose you career path carefully.

[Craic Ore]

Since Dubai is in such a recession and the housing bubble has burst as in the US, why aren't any of the pilots taking advantage of the market and buying there own property?

Maybe two things - the purchase financing being difficult to obtain (wrt, credit and higher down payments) and we have yet to reach a bottom, probably nowhere near it.

[airbusa330]

Because pilots being pilots=herd mentality also bought at the top me recons. the street.

[Constant Speed DU]

Is there any truth in what the Uk papaers are saying? Seen quite a few articles saying that Ex-pats are leaving and walking away from their commitments i.e home loans otherwise they'll be put inside? apparently there are over 3000 cars parked in Dubai airport with their keys left in the ignition and maxed out credit cards in the glove. Any truth?

[kashima]

The news papers blow things out of porportion. I was told there is a problem in Dubai and there are cars left at the airport due to "selling of cars" laws. My understanding is you have to own a car in order to sell it in dubai, or you can go to debt jail. Expats are being laid off and visas are being revoked, as a result people can pay their bills and flee. There is still a lot of traffic, but the gov't is trying to get rid of old used cars.

[skyvan]

So true LR3, so true.

[mensaboy]

LR is correct. If the conditions were the same when I joined, as they are now, I would not have joined.
The deterioration of our T&C's has gathered momentum. Emirates is no longer what it was, as short as 5 years ago. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but everyone should reconsider EK now. It has gotten that bad here.

ps. Kingofthe... I agree with what you say but can you stop using da's, ders and y'alls and write properly? You lose all credibility when you write like an uneducated teenager. I don't mean it as a slag on you, more a constructive criticism.

[fatbus]

Firstly its not a pound of flesh anymore its a kilo, a big step back.
But

LR3 you need to get the facts first

O/T is still at the same rate you were told at the interveiw( maybe even gone up 0 , unfortunately its at 92 hrs now

Use to be villsa and now its town houses... what do you call H84's and the 164's and the list goes on .Other than DSO most are not stand alone villas. Talk to some of the guys in 2 bed apt's and they love it because of the size and location

You knew there was no unions when you joined, a bit a research for those thinking of coming is a must and lack of it can only be blamed on yourself.

Buyer beware

Myself and hundreds others are waiting for the next best thing so if you know of one lets us know.

[skyvan]

@ fatbus...

there is another sad truth, the airline is materially different from a few years ago. So many guys I fly with have very little good to say about the current crop of weeds, sorry, managers.

If I knew how quickly, and in which direction, things would change, I am sure that I would have stayed in my warm third world country. Alas, I was one who was stupid enough to believe the recruiters, and now I and my family are paying for my lack of astutenenss. 11 months in, and still in temporary accommodation, why did I believe them when they said maybe a few weeks in temp? Overtime limit pushed from 78 to 92 hours, no attempt to soften the blow, just there u are, we know that market conditions are bad (i.e. you can't go anywhere) so suck it up.

Oh well, when things improve, and they will, for this is a cyclical industry, there will be an exodus, and the managers will be running around trying to improve conditions to keep people. And that is when the older managers will realise that package is not the be all and end all to make an employee happy, respect and trust is also important. Afetr only 11 months I can hardly believe that I have none of that left for them already :sad:

[nolimitholdem]

There's a very simple principle to follow for any prospective joiners. (Well, there won't be any for awhile as apparently recruiting is done for 2009).

The very best day of your employment at Emirates will be the very first day you work for them. Every single day after that will be worse. I cannot think of any aspect of living in Dubai or working for Emirates that has stayed the same or materially improved over the course of the last few years. Oh, there have been some bright spots which I'm sure the faithful will jump all over to convince themselves of how wonderful it is. But it's one step forward, three back.

Just keep that in mind and you'll be fine.

[casio man]

Been here 14 mths, also would not have come with the current conditions...:mad:

[MTOW]

Only 3 or 4 years ago, a disaffected Belgian ex-EK pilot used to frequent these pages bad-mouthing EK. Many EK pilots replied, myself included, defending the company and telling the world that the Belgain was wrong in what he was saying.

Karl, I think you'd be met with either a wall of silence or a chorus of agreement from theose same pilots if you were do make those same allegations today.

[picu]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[whossorrynow]

You beat me to it picu.

casio man and his US and ZA buddies (yes I mean you skyvan) had six or more years of back postings on this board to read and check that leave no doubts at all about how this airline goes about it's business.

Sheesh!:=

And MTOW, check out poster Bitburger in the search function and you'll find that Karl is not that far away (as recently as January on the ME forum). Not that his particular problems have any relevance to anything that's being discussed here.

[Panther 88]

Picu,
Back off. Put yourself in the shoes of the lastest batch of new joiners, 6-18 mo's.

No accomodations, families in distress.
No ability to commute, families in distress after being fed up with temp. accommodations and have left.
Random insertion of ADs, adds nothing to bottom line.
Max five days off in a row, adds nothing to bottom line.
Max five days off added to leave, adds nothing to bottom line.
Max 12 days off a month, adds nothing to bottom line.

Factoring and productivity pay reduction. Does add to the bottom line. No no-cost items to soften the blow such as open time and swap boards.
Minimum or no Profit Sharing (PBUH)-adds to bottom line.

BMI testing but not lifestyle testing (smoking, cholesterol, fatigue)=harassment.

So according to your reasoning, we should all be thankful to our magnanimous employer and lower our heads as we traverse the EGHK doorway.

Hey, unless you want to go to KAL, Air India, Lagos or Japan, there aren't too many jobs out there. So I guess we all have to gut it out for awhile. But, if the world turns positive and EK starts making big time profits, do you believe that all of the above will be rescinded? You think that factoring will go away? You think we will be able to get 10 days in a row off in our top bid months? If you do, you are either an unbelievable optimist or getting used to sand in your lungs and liking it.

And you yourself said, when things turn around and PEOPLE START TO LEAVE that T&Cs would start to improve. Is that anyway to run a business, only retain personnel after losses of personnel can't be sustained? Why not motivate personnel NOW, other than offering employment? This is the time when true management competence and adroitness comes into play. We'll see together, I'm afraid. But I won't be holding my breath

[picu]

Sorry old bean,
I don't need to put myself in their shoes. Some time after I joined and expected a very quick command, the rules changed and it became minimum 3 years at EK before upgrade. I lost out on that but I didn't let it bring me down. I made an effort to enjoy my time as F/O and use the time in the right seat to listen and learn - which eventually helped when my name came up.

No accommodation - I already said - promises were broken. It's a huge shame indeed and entirely the fault of the company. New wannabees in the pool please note.
No ability to commute. This issue has been raised on PPrune before and many have said before that it is very hard to commute at EK. The new recent rules just confirmed this further. To new wannabees - don't come to EK expecting to commute. (unless you live in Abu Dhabi)
New rostering rules - I have already said they are stupid.

Factoring has been there for donkeys' years, since about a year after A340 long haul ops started. And it was on PPrune too.

Productivity pay reduction. I don't like it either but I accept it as a cost saving measure in these trying times so people like Casio Man can keep his job and afford the internet to post silly things on Pprune.

No profit sharing? You have got to be kidding.Since when was this guaranteed? Anyone who joins EK on the basis of the profit share should be flogged.

BMI testing is harrassment? Why? At the end of the day shedding extra pounds is good for you. Re smoking and cholesterol - I get told off by the EK clinic doctor every annual medical for smoking and having high cholesterol. I accept it as sage advice and thank him for it but I don't think it's harrasment.

So according to your reasoning, we should all be thankful to our magnanimous employer and lower our heads as we traverse the EGHK doorway. Like I already said. I thank f*ck every day I work for EK. (hey that rhymes - maybe I'll print a t-shirt)

Hey, unless you want to go to KAL, Air India, Lagos or Japan, there aren't too many jobs out there. So I guess we all have to gut it out for awhile. But, if the world turns positive and EK starts making big time profits, do you believe that all of the above will be rescinded? You think that factoring will go away? You think we will be able to get 10 days in a row off in our top bid months? If you do, you are either an unbelievable optimist or getting used to sand in your lungs and liking it.

If the world turns positive (not for another couple of years at least, I think) and EK does not improve conditions, pilots will leave to go to greener pastures and EK will improve conditions. As I already said.

Factoring will not go away. Like it did not go away when over a hundred pilots left about 2 years ago ( and we had a pay increase, flight pay etc).
Yes i believe the days off and rostering rules will change for the better soon.
I am an unbelievable optimist and there are many like me here. I would NOT like to be working anywhere else in the world today.

As to your last statement, you just didn't get what I said the first time didn't you? Yes that's the way EK does business. The business model sucks but I've been here long enough to understand it. What's more, knowing EK I bet that there will be further erosion of our Ts and Cs in the near future. Why? Because that's how they work. Knowing that it's coming beforehand makes it far less painful.
Enough. Please forward his to all the EK wannabees out there. So thay can't say they didn't know.

[Me Myself]

I get told off by the EK clinic doctor every annual medical for smoking and having high cholesterol. I accept it as sage advice and thank him for it but I don't think it's harrasment.


Do you have some kind of death wish ?
I for one praise the Lord every sunrise that I am not working for EK.
I come down on duty once in a while and I find the place amazingly distastefull not to mention the work practices.
None of what I'm reading in the financial press matches your current optimism when it comes to the sandpitt. I read horror stories such as expats having lost their job must leave after so many weeks / months unless they can find another job; hoodles of cars standing at the airport their owners having waved sayonara in a hurry. And talk of screwing up the environment !
Have the rusky hookers left towards greener pastures ?? There were tons of them last time I visited; bloody horrible sight.

[Me Myself]

Best regards to Irene.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

Errrrrrrrr, Irene ??? Am I mizzing zomezing ???

[Mr.Shaft]

Has anyone in the pool received a course date yet? Guys who interviewed in Apr/May are approaching one year, any news?

[White Knight]

Well I've got to agree with most of what Picu says... When business is down costs WILL be cut, when things get better our terms will improve too - simple law of supply and demand boys and girls..

As to the new 92 hour threshold for overtime pay - that's what it is, NOT a monthly target.. Even if they try to roster to that it won't work because the fatigue problem will rear it's head - remember that it's YOUR responsibility to not fly if you are TIRED. Fill the forms in etc like the last time around with factoring. These people with no experience of long haul flying have to made to understand somehow:ugh:

As to the days off string of 5 max and 12 XX per month - that too will quietly die out.. It's just smoke and fire from the 'weeds' to satisfy higher 'weeds', it'll all blow over when they realise that the AD's become flights become overtime when the guys on reserve are doing virtually NOTHING..

Yes - the temporary accommodation is an absolute debacle and the manager of that department should have been fired a long time ago.

Still, it could be worse - you could be on a 5 day trip with LR3, now wouldn't that be a barrel of laughs:hmm:

[drnetsurfer]

Fellas it going to be a few years yet before it gets better…..For me in America, our economy is hurting like no one has seen. We have some of the “smartest” people dishing out advice everyday and no seems to know what to do. Can anyone really doubt that Emirates/UAE will take a major hit or is? Life at Emirates…will it get better. Someday down the road…maybe? But is that the important question to ask….. Unfortunately, you guys and gal(s) have to live with it or not; and so do the rest of us, wherever we are at the moment. It really just comes down to hard decisions. I myself have agonized about wanting the airlines in the USA to improve. But you can’t spend your life on just hoping someday things will get better. You have to start living now for yourself and your family; and make decisions that will allow you to do just that.

I spoke the other night to a good friend who was furloughed last year, he called at 11:15pm. I was on a trip and I quickly called back because he never calls that late now that he and his wife have a baby boy. The short of the conversation, like many I have these days, centered around how bad it’s gotten and why he was not able to find work anywhere; at least anything that you wouldn’t have to comprise yourself to do.

I remember when he and I got out of flight training in the military. There we were 20 something years old, we barely had the respect of our parents as grown ups. But he and I were dropping bombs and flying into crazy war zones together. Such responsibility and trust the military gave to us; our country gave to us. He has a degree, graduate of the Naval Academy, former military aviator, and 121 pilot. He is a great guy like so many other guys I know. He has thousands of hours and great experience. Here he was on the phone, a bit tipsy, wondering why his credentials can’t get him hired at the few places that are still looking…..after months of being out of work (almost a year)…..It was a rare side of my friend I have never ever heard. Not on any mission we had done…not on any long deployment as we sat together talking or something else. He was scared and pissed and drunk. I hate what this chase has done to my friend; this industry; this craziness. The only advice I could offer my friend was……MOVE ON BROTHER! You have great leadership experience with over a decade of military service and several years in the airlines. Let’s get you back to school and out into a different arena where people will appreciate your talents and experience. Where everyday you gain experience and if you leave that job people don’t have the balls to ask you start at the bottom of some seniority list. My friends at DHL who are furloughed will have had more than 15years flying heavies. And does anyone know where he or she can start now?

I have no freaking idea! Some are desperate enough to start at the very bottom again at places like Compass in the states flying EMB170’s for 23/hr.

Yeah! Competition is ridiculous right now and I get the down turn in the economy. When did it take over 10000 hours+ to be a good pilot. When did it take heavy time to get a job flying heavy airplanes? When did you have come to a job already type rated with years of experience for crappy wages somewhere else to get a corporate gig? Or my favorite, When did you start needing multiple type ratings and hundreds of hours in each type? Hell if I don’t know!!!

A CEO of company said a few years back in not some many words that pilots are silly hopeless fouls. Hmmm! Hell ! maybe we are?

I was flying back to today from my home state of Maryland. We were pounded by 12 inches of snow, while annoyingly cold, it was beautiful to see all the snow on the trees; and, I hate snow. As I was leaving my parents home, I remember hearing a father up the street playing with his kids in the snow. On the drive over to DCA to catch my flight, I realized that there was hardly any traffic or accidents; which if anyone knows the DCA/Maryland Area you know that is nothing short of a miracle. Everyone decided to stay home it had seemed and enjoy the time away from work. Why fight the weather some days, you just have to say the hell with it and enjoy your life. And I say the same thing for guys/gals in the pool, live your lives......why are we as pilots unwilling to just stay at home and enjoy our kids/family or in whatever small corner of the world we are from. Let's take the advice of many of the gents on here who are providing warnings about our choices and what we are willing to give up in pursuit of shiny jets at Emirates.

I have been in the pool for quite sometime and I thank Emirates and you guys here. Even this economic downturn and my friend has reminded me of what is really important in life. I have agonized as to why I still wanted to come to Emirates or anywhere else for that matter in the Middle East. I have been lucky and while I have lost some in the stock market and this downturn promises to get worst. It’s going to be ok and so is NOT coming to Emirates just to make tax free money and fly the 777 or whatever. Because….on any given day…I can jump into my car or my jeep with the top down and take it on a drive thru the hills. Or I can go out on the lake with my buddies boat and wake boarding all day with our significant others. I sure as hell can't do that in Dubai.

Yes! Emirates isn’t for everyone. But you really have to make decisions about your own happiness. Because Emirates management doesn’t give a crap about you nor does my airline here in the states….but that’s going to have to be ok. You’re going to have to look out for your own interest because this industry is appearing everyday to be a fools errand for most of the guys/gals in it. Too many talented guys and gals wasting their time hoping someday when things will get better as if management has any interest, particularly in the Middle East, in seeing your lives get better. Yes! It’s sad state of affairs when you can’t just work for a company that values your service and the work you contribute and looks out for your interest. But at this point in our history, we are far from that kind of realization in the airline business.

But you wait in about 2 weeks….some will sign into Prune wanting know what’s going on at Emirates and how they can get hired. It’s amazing we don’t listen to advice sometimes or take the warning from people when offered. But you can’t save everyone, so save yourself and family.

Last, I got a call from a government contractor 2 weeks back who was looking for a guy who could go to Iraq or Afghanistan. I had sent out a resume or two last year completely out of the flying business. He found my resume and wanted to offer me a job. Well it turns out the job was for $350k a year doing some that I had done in the military with a follow on job in the states when I returned from my year. Well, I am not sure what my decision will be. Because at the end of the day, I have already been there and done that already; And, how much is your life worth anyway? So, I pose that question to my fellow pilots when they now complain about management and T&Cs. How much is your happiness worth or for that matter your families happiness? I dunno....but this offer of employment should prove that even as diffcult as things are, there are still options and companies willing to hire you to do work for them for great wages and benefits. Don't ride the jet in......know when to pull the ejection handle. For me, it looks like "a good chute."

[beechbum]

Blah blah blah....WTF?
Maybe you should lay off the hard stuff dude! Haven't got head or tail of what you are trying to say!

[Me Myself]

Good God !!! Neither have I. Hope he feels better for it.
Listen mate, you have to live witht the following : We're only truck drivers !! What need is there of us if there is no one to fly. Stop feeling like a martyr !! Cuz let me tell you there are many others in much worse situation than yours.
We are just a byproduct of economic growth. When the economy grows, then we're needed, when not...............well, then not. We're nothing special, just one of the actor of the economy.
You want to be on top of everything ??? Have a super amazing wonderfull idea, start your own business in your garage and become the Bill Gates of tommorrow. I believe these guys too have worked their tail off too.
I've tried having a super rewarding idea.........nothing came up, so for now I'm happy doing what I do because I am much too lazy to do something else.
It doesn't take a PhD in astrophysic to understand that the world isn't " unfair and mean " to us ". Sorry for your friend. I still have a job today and I hope I have one tommorrow, but who knows ?? I've been unemployed before.
For 20 years now, everybody and especially sectors of the economy like airlines, have enjoyed a totally artificial growth. We had pax to fly because people had the illusion the economy was sound. Everybody borrowed like there was no tommorrow chosing not to find the whole thing a bit odd and too easy...............and then the music stopped.
I am thankfull I was raised in the hate of debts and I never lived above my station and what I made.
The problem with airline pilots is they have always thought they were something special. Well, wake up and smell the coffee, we ain't !! Just pro's like there are millions other who by the way keep a stuff upper lip and move on.
As to DXB, here's what I just read on Nouriel Roubini's news letter :
White Elephants in the UAE: How Large a Property Slump?


Average prices for Abu Dhabi’s major property projects have dropped by 15% to 25% since peaking in Q3 2008 (National Bank of Abu Dhabi). Dubai high-end rents may fall as much as 40% in 2009
Vacancies in Dubai’s office market have doubled to around 16% over the past 6 months, the highest recorded. Hotels report lowest occupancy on record. More than 50% of the announced residential and commercial projects due for completion between 2009 and 2012 have now been either put on hold or cancelled (Jones LaSalle)
Doesn't look too good.

[takisdro]

Well,guys,all this comments,even they show some friction between people and everybody is entitled to have an opinion,are good stuff,still to some of us in the pool may be look a little distant,because what we have is nothing compare to what we hope to get and apparently you already have.
What I'm saying is,that we would like some inside information about the poolers as well.
This altogether with your comments,will be a great help for us!
I'd like to thank you though for the activity of this thread that it was really missing!

[drnetsurfer]

I agree with you in large part. But I don’t agree that our current occupation is just disposable or is as easy as driving a bus. I just think that MOST of the people who do this job are so capable that they make it look easy. But in my previous post, I was speaking to what I think most of have bought into….the career of yester year airline pilots. There was a time when pilot lived great lives and were compensated well. I know my friends at Southwest Airline currently still live an existence that is rather envious with a company that still seems committed to an employee/management cooperation and teamwork. Hell, wouldn’t it be nice to be well compensated for the sacrifices you put into learning your craft and time away from family and the professionalism you bring to work everyday? I am under no delusion about us being more special than most professional careers. But it was bad before the economic down turn and now it’s worst.

I am simply saying that pilots, whether they consider themselves too lazy or incapable of doing other things for a living, are indeed very much capable of giving this up and doing other things; largely because the guys and gals in this profession are very capable people. But so many of us are willing to give up the very things that make life worth living in the pursuit of shiny jets and airlines that we think will bring a better life; me included.

So, for those guys who have been complaining about changes to T&C and pining over Emirates or any airline as the holly grail. Well, as is obvious from what is happening at Emirates and everywhere…. Nothing is guaranteed, so choose the path for yourself that brings the most happiness. My buddy will be fine…. so will all of us, whether you choose Emirates or any other airline. It really comes down these days to choosing, if you have the option, to living life and being as happy as you can be given your own personal circumstance. Rather than speculate as to when good T&C will comeback to the industry……take the bull by the horns and make a choice about your circumstance….Stay at Emirates, then stay and live with it…..if not pick your moment carefully and get the hell out of there or where ever you are. ;)

[Panther 88]

Drnetsurfer,
You say a lot of nice flowery things. But so much of what we have endured in this industry, especially the US (Deregulation, Lorenzo, controller's strike, Low Cost carriers, BKs, 9/11, economic downturns, etc etc) that pilot's have no control over. If I may speak for a number of posters here. We have a fairly successful employer who does magic with marketing and usually has turned a nice profit. And in the past we have benefitted from that. But with this last set of T&Cs it appears that economic downturn is just an excuse to gain more control, limit our abilities to "have a life" and in some ways appear to be punitive.

Very few guys here said to themselves, you know I want to be an Emirates pilot. The majority are here because of some unforeseen event in their home country and airline or a chance to better their economic situation. We are the modern day French Forgien Legion. Even so, there are many here, for whatever reasons, would or could not take their families back from whence they came. So you will not garner much sympathy from someone from the land of milk and honey.

So if one has no job, this looks like Utopia. But once we are here we see it for what it really is and the absolute control management has over every aspect of you lives. From how and where you live, to sending an email to management when you leave the country on your own. And the guys that have been here ten years or so say it was pretty darn good in those days. We all wonder why there has had to be a change when so many of the changes have nothing to do with the bottom line or efficiencies.

Finally, before separating from active duty maybe you should have thought long and hard about making twenty and then bailing. Is your friend flying in the Guard or Reserves, and if not, why not?

And please check your font, man I can't read your last paragraphs on your posts. What's up with that?

[drnetsurfer]

Sorry Brother…..I understand what you’re saying. I can be a little flowery (ok hell a lot flowery) and whimsical in my post. My apologies. I know most of the guys and gals here are hardened airline pilots and I forget they have trouble with flowery and lofty ideas. As for the font, I think this site automatically reduces your BS when you type too fast and too much when you get on your soapbox. So, it automatically reduced the font size without my control….let me see if I can fix that.

I actually got a call from a friend who happens to be recruiting right now for a C-9 unit. And he is going to do his best to get our mutual friend who is furloughed into the reserves….I have long been in the reserves. But I left active duty like many of friends after Bosnia, Operation Southern Watch, Afganistan, and even I got recalled to Iraq in 2006 to do a desk job. Too many deployments and too much time away made the airlines seem attractive to us at the time. Now some of us are kicking ourselves for getting out of active duty. But with the reserves, you can still manage a retirement and even reduced health care cost.

Sorry to read that Emirates has decided to take such a hard line with you guys. I hope things get better for you guys since it seems to be a good product but crappy management team pulling the strings.:ugh:

[Me Myself]

I agree with you in large part. But I don’t agree that our current occupation is just disposable or is as easy as driving a bus. I just think that MOST of the people who do this job are so capable that they make it look easy.

What I was meaning was, in today's economy we're here to haul and not to fly wealthy happy fews around hence the reason why we're no royalty anymore. Wether easy or difficult, we've become as natural as dying old and like many things, we too, are now taken for granted.
Sully will be forgotten comes 4th of July so is the pace of life nowadays. The only thing that could change something is no more young people wanting to apply.
I come from a banker's family ( they've been retired a while so hold your fire ) and of course when I decided to become a pilot it was the end of the world as we knew it and a considerable effort was deployed to put me off the idea. As any young chap ( sensible ) would also say today..........I told them to sod off.
Now I'm asking you, what job ( if you're working for a major ) despite the irritations, the time away ...........etc gives you the kind of freedom we enjoy ? Again in a major. I know too well what it's like elsewhere.
Many a night I ask myself " What the f..k am I doing up here counting the stars ? " but then in the 22 years I have been here, no one has ever been on my back, no harrasement or intimidation, office politics zilch !! Don't feel like getting up and go to work ?? Just call in sick; that simple.
I've got friends who are not pilots and they probably fly more than I do, have their bags lost and come home at 11pm with the last flight to start all over again the next day.
To rap up and looking back I think the best in this business is to fly short haul for a major, enjoy the perks it offers and sleep in a bed every night.
Apart from putting food in your plate I don't know what's to enjoy in a low cost specially working for this irish lunatic.

[Obbie]

Well my my !!!!!

I'm very dizzy and out of breath after all that drama.

Now I would like to say to the last dozen guys or so who have
completely hijacked this thread from it's once very productive
beginnings....Please.......PISS OFF !!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is for info on the progression of us poor guys
in the pool who have been treading water for almost a year now.

Not for you to vent about god knows what..........

If it's not about people getting pulled out and put on course
then please.......take it some where else.

Thank you

[ironbutt57]

Sully will be forgotten comes 4th of July so is the pace of life nowadays.
Seems the rest of the crew has already been forgotten..how did he let that happen???:eek:

[White Knight]

Obbie - that's not an attitude that will stand you in good stead here:=:=

[skyvan]

Obbie, you sound like a manager....if it's not being done my way it can't be right.

Think of the positive, this thread regularly drops off the front page, then gets propped up with some arbitary question, since the last dozen or so posts it has been at the top, nice and easy to find.

It's also nice to see the older (been here longer) guys sparring with the newer guys who are still coming to grips with the FIFO style of the place!

Relax a bit, we all need to :)

[Panther 88]

Obbie,
Please, PISS OFF YOURSELF. This a thread for guys wanting information about the pool. Other questions arise about lifestyle, rostering, etc. It ain't a bed of roses here, despite the recruiting shill. We are trying to prepare guys to not be blind sided when they get here.

Man, if you can't take the heat of this thread, can't wait for some of the trainers to get hold of you. Now that should be a hoot. And after a year, you will probably be on these boards daily saying what a bucket full of caca this place is.

[EGGW]

Calm Down ladies please, lots of hyteria around here, folks are going to get removed off the thread and posts removed if you can't play nicely.

We are watching you.

EGGW

[lalo737]

By The Way, Any New Info About When Ek Going To Call The People From The Pool?
Thanks

[kkeehh31]

I am still waiting. I did the interview in April last year. No news yet. Hope to get soon some more info.

[forum newbie]

I also interviewed in May last year and just holding my breath in the pool. I know that many people choose to join/ or not to join Emirates based on personal experiences. I am just glad that i do have a choice and will make the decision that is best for me and my family and that entails joining Emirates.

Best of luck to everyone in the pool and i am hoping we hear something soon.

fb

[fatbus]

If you are still flying A: hiring should start in the summer and B; think hard about leaving your present job, its not as bad as you think it is or flying longhaul/widebody is also not what you think it is. Do what is best for your family not you the pilot.



If you go 1 year without flying you might be dropped from the pool, I thought those people were told so.

[chofuan]

Is it true that EK is inviting to the interviews only pilots with widebody experience? I heard that from a pilot that works in recruitment. Please let me know if that is the new policy.

[Trader]

chofuan - true - last I heard they had a pile of resumes from pilots with heavy time and they will interview those first.

[mensaboy]

Are you guys serious about coming here? I fear for you!

[Obbie]

What again ???????

TOPIC PEOPLE......STAY ON TOPIC !!!!!!!!!!!

Go vent somewhere else please !!!!!

[White Knight]

Oh obbie - you just don't get it do you????????

[kashima]

Why cant we all get along. There are all different walks, different views, and everyone is in a different situation. Just try to respect that. Those in the pool have their views and anxiety, those at work in Dubai have their hurdles too. Respect that! Let go of the ego's and be thankful you can fly and dont have cancer..... or some other life threatning disease.

Just a thought:confused:

[takisdro]

Kashima's right,all inputs are welcome,but if it goes personal it's confusing.Still guys anything about schools?

[buzz&sntch]

Latest I've heard is maybe June for bringing folks out of the pool as a/c deliveries continue. If your swimming, good news is that you'll probably go to the 777. I was hired into the other EK (bus side) and will probably vacate after just 6 months with the company. The company is overall good. There are people that love Dubai, and then there are people like myself. I wont be one that complains about a company (or pilot base)and not do anything about it. Dubai just isn't my cup of tea. EK is just another airline as far as work goes though, same good and same bad that you'll find in any other airline. Even with the higher starting pay, it just isn't high enough to counter the other factors. Call me insane in this environment, but life is just way too short to not seek hapiness. Maybe if enough like me go, we'll free up some spots for you that wait. My best wishes for you to find the hapiness I could not. EK will post a profit year ending March 09, and with the quality of flight/cabin crews they do have, I have no doubt they can do that even in this economy.

[Fred Garvin M.P.]

Geez, a level headed response about EK and how you feel about it. I didn't think that was allowed on pprune.

[asiasky]

Hi guys,

I'm also in the pool since last june. Few days ago, got it an email from HR department asking for some answers concerning the pre-employment medical check. Have someone earlier in the pool than me got this mail also? I have 3 months notice period and not been informed about posible DOJ, so, I guess "june course" some of you talked, it's gone.

Any info concercing the "pool side" will be appreciated.

[Mr.Shaft]

asia.....in the pool also, interviewed last July and also got the medical update. What it means as to as getting closer DOJ, I don't know. But what else can we do but wait. Atleast, we're still considered for future hiring.

[Fubaliera]

I got the same letter. Been in the pool since last May. Hr must have been bored

[kkeehh31]

I did my interview last April. Got the same email about the medical stuff. Still waiting for a date.

[takisdro]

I also received the same letter for the medical.I was interviewed last April.I hope that they,at least,extend the validity period.Still a friend of mine,in aviation business but not with EK,moved to UK because of prices,even it seems like they are dropping,and if looking for a lease the bank rates are up to 12%.Also been told that Abu Dhabi helped Dubai just for the overall confidence of UAE,otherwise they wouldn't mind seen Dubai crashing or at least behave like the rest of the Emirates.Then it will be boring to live there.

[mikehagen]

EK better recruits more pilots soon, specially in view of the late rostered 90+ hrs of ULR routes crossing several time lines including east & westbound flights indistinctly :=

The industry eyes are turning into EK Management as its a matter of time before the flight crews will inevitably start making big mistakes out of impaired judgement and dropping on the floor like flies out of fatigue exhaustion... or a smoking hole wakes up EK managers out of their wet dream :D

Anyone willing to bet what is likely to happen first?

[White Knight]

Mike - what's a 'late rostered 90+' meant to mean.. I don't personally know of anyone rostered to that at the moment... Maybe I need to get out more:confused:

[mikehagen]

Hi White, try this out (seat down before you start reading):

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/363139-surprise-surprise-90-hour-roster.html

keep discovering!

[fatbus]

Mike,
the only difference now is that pilots are pissed they are not getting any O/T. Many were calling Crew Control to get extra trips or change for higher credit for the cash, 4-5 years ago it was the Bus , the last couple were the 777- all gone now. Fatiuge levels the same, thats not to say they will not get any worst with 17 more aircraft / 14% increase in seats and very little increase in pilots numbers. On the fatiuge issue, I have said this before, if you are not fit dont fly. There will be no one to help you if you bend an aircraft.
As far as the industry watching, dont think so and you should see the rules for some other carriers. Its those carries the EK uses to ensure they are just alittle bit better when it comes to FTL's for ULR's

[White Knight]

Mike - I read that thread from when it started.... Nothing that I need to sit down for..

90hr rosters? Maybe for some.. We're 14 days into March, I had 4 days leave out of that so that means that in 10 days 'working' I've actually done 2 turnarounds for a total of 12 hours flying.. My next 2 trips are with 'heavy' crew so I personally don't feel overworked!!
I'll let you know though when my April roster comes out... But I reckon it'll be between 70 and 80 hours..

[mikehagen]

Hi Fat, White,

Thanks for the clarification. I seldomly get over 70 hrs a month and mostly within 3 time zones. And I complain, go figure!:O

I guess I'll just have to wake up to reality. Anyway, I'm eager to get that shiny wide body babe:E

[mikehagen]

By the way, any insider tips as to the next classes anyone?

[SOPS]

:)I have no inside info...but I think it will be a small intake..and it will be people with heavy time.....but I could be very wrong:)

[SOPS]

To reply to myself...I took over an aircraft this morning from a crew who had staff numbers "that were issued yesterday". I mean both Captain and FO,,,so there is DE Captain intake going on and there is FO intake going on....or there was a few months ago:ok:

[Panther 88]

On the money, brother.:ok:

[takisdro]

On the housing,how about the option of taking the money instead?
Does this work?

[Wizofoz]

At the moment, it might. A year ago the Utilities alowance would have rented a one-bed studio, today it would probably get you a three-bed semi.

The unknows are:-

1) will the company reduce it

2) Will rents go back up.

I think the answer to both is no in the short term- the company needs as many folk as possible in their own accomodation, and rents are down for at least the next couple of years.

Beyond that, who knows?

It might actually make buying look like an option.

[takisdro]

Silence again.Any latest for the swimmers?

[Mugwump]

If you're not out of breath, and haven't drown yet from treading water in the hold pool, have a look at the shiney new Emirates group career website.

Welcome to Emirates Group Careers Centre (http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com)

[fatbus]

It looks like with the news of 92 hrs a month will kill hiring for awhile. Not what the poolies wanted to hear

[777-200LR]

This is PPRuNe so please don't quote me, but came back from a flight yesterday and someone told me recruitment may not resume until Nov 2009.

[fabbry1972]

Do you mean November for both the start of new trainings and interview sections or just for the new courses of people still in the pool?

Thanks Fabbry1972

[Fubaliera]

If november is true, then everybody in the pool will be expired. Then can choose who they want by only extending their validity. but the way things are looking at Ek its gonna bewcome ETHihad city hopper soon

[Kenny]

November for the restart of interviews would make perfect sense given everything that has already been said to not only those in the pool but those that underwent the selection process in Feb.

Those in the pool have been told to expect movement around June. Those that interviewed in Feb, were told to expect something around Oct/Nov.

Assuming both those hold true (A long shot, I know), then by Nov the pool should be drained and they'll need to replenish it.

[forum newbie]

I am curious to know what the notice requirement for a class date do most of you need. I told emirates i need two months.

[aapa]

eagerly waiting too inter. may my company requires 3 months - u. k low cost

[klipper11]

forgive my ignorance, what does shortlisted really mean? I have been short listed with a few other opportunities, but what does it mean for EK.

[fatbus]

it means EK finds you acceptable,after that there is grading involved

[klipper11]

thanks for the information, I will wait and see.

[kkeehh31]

Hi

I saw this in Flight International too. http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/368306-ek-add-first-officers-today.html
Myself is still waiting for a date.

[mikehagen]

As I approach a year after my interview, it's frustrating not to have anyone inside EK to contact and find out our actual pool status. All HR specialists seem gone as their emails reject any contact attempt.

Even the email of K. Ferguson, the Recruitment Manager who succeded D. Rawson does not seem to work anymore. It's almost like the whole Pilot Recruitment Department is gone...

I wonder what's really going on. Any ideas, insiders? :bored:

[Mr.Shaft]

EK situation is getting ugly.......is it true their asking voluntary leave absence from the cabin crew? What's next the pilot's? I'm in the pilot pool and was told to expect an update April-June along with my fellow poolers. I wish they would tell us exactly their plan.......it's a little frustrating to say the least.

[forum newbie]

I am frustrated with EK and i have not even started ground school. The lack of communication is dumbfounding and it says heaps about the hr department and their lack of insight. I wish they would tell us if we are going to start ground school or not, but please do not give us this false dream of ever working for EK.

I told ek i need 2 months notice due to my current airline so my swim legs are getting tired. Anyone know if that tall eastern european girl is still working, i dont have her contact information but will attempt to call her next week. I also tried ferguson and she seems out of the office or maybe she was cut due to the budget cuts.

fb

[Kenny]

Gents,

I know we're feeling frustrated but I'm willing to bet things are changing on a weekly basis. So their ability to keep us advised about what is in the pipeline for the poolies is limited.

And just to finish this post on a really good note, I just heard from a mate of mine that the number right now, is 50 required for the 09/10 fiscal year. So about half the poolies.

[kingpost]

Unfortunately the requirement will come after all poolies have been treading water for over a year, they'll then have to re-apply!

[Bavarian]

Anyone know if that tall eastern european girl is still working, i dont have her contact information but will attempt to call her next week.Forum Newbie, I believe you are referring to Aneta. . Good luck and let us know if and what you might find out.

[Obbie]

Guys....don't keep bothering them

When they are ready, they will start the ball rolling.

If you make a pest of yourself......it might not be a good thing for you.

Know what I mean ;)

[Padawan Learner]

Hi all,

a new update letter has been sent to the guys in the pool. It states tentative courses have been planned for July, August and September. It also states that not all in the pool will receive start dates and some will have to re-apply. Lots of other info in the letter too.. Check your mail boxes and keep your fingers crossed.. Good luck!

[kashima]

Any feedback or thoughts on the April update received from HR.
Any thoughts on new accommodation claus.

[brewman187]

Hello to all the poolies, I received the same email from HR. Not the best of news, but at least it's an update. Not sure who will be selected for course dates, though. The email said 2 criteria will be used right; currency, or when you last flew, and also how well you did in the interview. Is that what everyone else gets out of it? I guess we won't hear anything until around May at the earliest of who will be offered courses. Keep your chins up, I know it's difficult. Good luck to all in the pool.

[kashima]

Does anyone know if the expiration date is from the day your application was submitted online or your interview date? or some other date?:ooh:

[brewman187]

kashima, I believe the currency period begins with your interview dates, at least thats what I was told by HR at some point, but like anything else, don't hold me to that. Hope this helps.

[Kenny]

The original "thumbs up" email said you had 12 months from the successful completion of the selection process.

Now whether that's the interview date or the email date is anyone's guess. But, considering that there were some huge differences in how long after your interview it took to get the email, I'm going with interview date.

Also, in addition to brewman's post above, although it wasn't specifically stated but merely alluded to, they are going to be looking at the type of time in deciding where you fall in the list. ie, Boeing, Airbus, CRJ, etc.

[fatbus]

This time last year EK was desperate for pilots,running roads shows everywhere and the pool was basically dry. They are now using this opportunity to revamp the pool with more experienced pilots. Very unfortunate for some but the market is coughing up alot of experience at the moment

[forum newbie]

Kenny,

How do you know how they are rating the type of experience. From what i read, people will be judged on an individual basis based on currency and how well one did in the interview. In my group, i was the only one hired and i had erj experience and others had boeing, airbus times.

I think it will be sad if emirates does not look at the individuals and instead takes a boeing/ airbus guy over someone who did better in the interview. There are many successful crj/erj pilots at Emirates. Also, should Emirates take a boeing pilot who is not current over a crj/ erj pilot?

fb

[Kenny]

FN,

A friend of mine has a contact in HR.

[kingpost]

Forum Newbie

There are also many unsuccessful ERJ/CJ pilots at EK, it all depends on the individual's attitude.

I think be ready for the next round of interviews

[EGGW]

Krugerflap is a taking a break from Pprune, so no more replies to his rants please...

EGGW

[Saltaire]

Well done moderator, thank you

[Mr.Shaft]

From the latest HR update, are we to conclude that poolers interviewed Jan-April '08 of last year are let to expire. If that's the case, IMO the pool is cut by half or maybe more. That blows!!!!!

[Kep Ten Jim]

Mr Shaft

What do you mean by: "are we to conclude that poolers interviewed Jan-April '08 of last year are let to expire"

"are let to expire"?????

Do you not read over your post before putting it on line?

[Kenny]

Shaft,

A couple of things...

Firstly, and I don't know that they have but if EK has allowed the Jan-Apr poolies expire and that halves the pool. Then that might make sense to them as I've heard the pool has been around 100 deep and only 50-56 are needed. Possibly more, possibly less per the email.

Secondly, I'd be curious to know what the experience level and background is of those that were interviewed in JAN '08 and subsequently put in the pool. The guys I know that were interviewed in Jan, were on courses in April.

[forum newbie]

Kenny,

Another point is that it will be curious to know what the notification period one needs. I know that my company requires 2 month notice and i dont want to burn any bridges to attain a job. I know that some european carriers require 3 months notice and others require a longer notice period. If EK does the hiring on a month to month basis, then i am sure that many poolies will be eliminated just by that fact alone.

Another scenario is with the economic crisis, does it really make sense to move to the bottom of a seniority list. I just spoke to the family, and i cant take the risk of starting over. I really wanted EK but the safety and well being of my family comes first. Additionally, i just spoke to a new hire at EK and he told me that it is not what he imagined.

A famous captain once told me that once you are an expat, you are always an expat. I dont know if i can put my wife through my pursuit of an ideal job.

I think EK is a great company, but my family's well being is more important.

fb

[gotoindia]

Gents,

EK is hiring. Since Feb 1st. there have been 20 new hires. All of whom are graduates of the National Cadet Pilot Programme. The youngest 777 First Officer is 20 years old. All are citizens of the UAE. Ask your pals at EK to confirm this for you.

At 6 or so per month, the Cadet Pilot Programme can meet 100% of the staffing needs for 2009.

So when your e-mail says we'll have a class in June, Sept, or Dec, its true, but unless you're a Cadet, you won't be invited, it makes no difference if you're from a B744 or a CRJ2.

Maybe next year, but not anytime soon, this is the reality, so make your plans accordingly.
:(

Emirates | About Emirates | News | Emirates Doubles Number of UAE National Cadet Pilot Graduates (http://www.emirates.com/ae/english/about/news/news_detail.aspx?article=429478&offset=0)

Check this press to verify the above information.

[Oblaaspop]

Gotoindia,

You are spouting crap my friend.

You run the risk of thoroughly upsetting lots of peoples day's/weeks with the nonsense you are spreading!

If you don't have any FACTS, then don't bother posting!

To the guys in the pool (peps who have already passed the selection), I know its hard, but please try not to listen to these self centered fools who's sole aim is to ruin your day!

You will hear from EK soon...... Just be positive

[Fubaliera]

If EK was the company I thought it was.
1. They would have given poolies a seniority number
2.If no spots avail at least offer as a alternate Fly Dubai.
If they had made a decision to pass you, they should stand by it. Not say well now theres more euro and aussies avail so thank you but no thanks.
3. And if they actually start calling guys off the pool whats this 30 day notice. That is a sign of lack of planning, disorganization and guessing.

[whossorrynow]

You will hear from EK soon...... Just be positive
Reading this gives me that same sinking feeling I had when I saw Clarks ''we are unstoppable" message last year.


If EK was the company I thought it was.
Which PPRuNe have you been reading?


That is a sign of lack of planning, disorganization and guessing.
How perceptive.

[forum newbie]

It is kind of disappointing hearing that you are qualified, but not as qualified as others who have boeing time. We have hired regional guys but they do not make as good as pilots as boeing/ airbus guys even though we have cadets who have no experience.

As i said earlier, i am no longer interested but to the guys in the pool...i hope you are treated fairly. This whole experience could have been a more positive experience with just a few better deciisions.

fb

[Pool Paddler]

Any news?????? :sad:

Any body...... ????

[IDbackcountry]

I agree with fb. Watching on the sideline what's going on has decreased my interest and making it easier to make a decision. If you can't carve out a life with the new work rules, what's the point?

[Bavarian]

Hmmm...

Middle East supplement: Emirates back in the hunt soon (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/04/17/325172/middle-east-supplement-emirates-back-in-the-hunt-soon.html)

[Pool Paddler]

Thanks Bavarian!

Still no offer, running out of time for a July start.............. need to be fair to present CO....

Think I should stop paddling , just float...... :hmm:

Hope we don't float up the creek without a paddle..:confused:

PP

[Pool Paddler]

SH1T the same all over!

Question now is, OLD Bucket or NEW Bucket :confused:

PM's welcome.

PP

[freddi16]

hi guys anybody know how to update the application form for fo? they've changed the web site(emirates groups carrer).

many thanks

[cosmodrift]

Hey mensaboy, why don't you retire right now and save yourself all the trouble?

Things at EK been better, things are still the best in the market. Check around and see if there's any airline offering a package like this even after all the recent "downgrade".

The job is still very good. Poolies are not newbies in the market and some are more experienced than some of these wise asses trying to lecture about life, how to please your wife in the desert, blah, blah, blah.

The life of an EK FO is great. The bidding system is great. The payment is great.
Don't compare with your old life if that is not available. Time moves forward only.

If you are crazy to be a Captain, you must have an issue on delivering orders, so seek a shrink. Captains make a little more money to sign the papers, everithing else is standard procedures and the life of an FO is sweet.

We don't own the company, we are the workers and in this world scenery, we are the beggers. Compare to other airlines that are firing away their staff around and make your decision.

[Alvord]

Cosmodrift,
Reread mensaboys thread. I think you totally missed what he is saying. Unless of course you are one of the cadet pilots. You will be a foreigner in a foreign land taking orders from a local. Right or wrong you won't have much ground to stand on since you won't have the same backing.
Just a thought.
Alvord

[hongkongfooey]

Things at EK been better, things are still the best in the market. Check around and see if there's any airline offering a package like this even after all the recent "downgrade".


Somebody tell this space cadet about the T&Cs at the 2 major Fragrant Harbour operators :hmm: Things are far from perfect over here but he did make the comment " see if there's an airline offering a better package "

[cosmodrift]

So you are moving to Fragrant Harbour, then uh? Maybe they will have vacancies to everyone...

For those who are poolies, don't let these guys say they are sorry you passed EK selection as this would be something bad. They were very proud when they passed and they are not leaving.
This is one of the most respected selection program on earth and you know how happy you were when you passed. You got it. Congratulations. World is in a major downturn now, that's all.

This terror about local cadets becoming mean dangerous captains is ridiculous. Try to fly with a Korean or Chinese captain who speaks no english at all, accuses you of stealing their jobs and wants to fly his own mental SOP. I know what I am talking about.

What is this issue on receiving orders? Lack of respect is a safety issue and EK does not support it. So, if you are an FO, stand up, speak up, do your job and get the money. That's it. If you don't respect yourself, no one will.

[fliion]

Cosmo,

Your posts are admirable but dont waste your time with the master moaners on this board. They have no objectivity and cannot see the trees from the forest.

As to fragrant harbour being better...every CX employee from snr mgt down must take unpaid leave in the coming months. If it was always better over there then presumably these boys could'nt cut the mustard...hence they are here.

To the poolies: The situ here WRT T&C's has suffered. To say otherwise is avoiding reality. Morale has dropped particularly with individuals who have a weak constitution and take all the re-allignment in light of current economic enviro. personally (cue LR3's adolescent rants)

The majority of the guys are relieved that they are at this carrier during this difficult period. Yes, yes I know there are tidings of truth with what has beeing posted...i.e rosters (fatigue is of particular concern here re. safety), training etc. BUT and this is a big but...there is nowhere I would rather be than here (okay maybe AF if I was French -which I am not)

So hang in there, stick with your gut feeling ....and remember there are 20 regular moaners on here (you know the type - loudest at the bar, know it all, gossipers - who take one grain of a rumour and run with it at the first chance) and 2200 other guys and gals getting on with it and making the best of life.

The good news is - when the market turns all these guys are moving on (to stay in light of their convictions would be a failure of their integrity) and then your seniority will move up a lot quicker.

Good luck to you all,

f.

[mensaboy]

Dear FLiion, and I quote,

''Cosmo,
Your posts are admirable....''

I'm sorry but I had to stop typing to have a laugh. Other than your preface, what you state is not so far from the truth but obviously you are attempting to entice others to take the leap to EK. Nothing wrong with that in a normal world but lets consider a few things first.

7 pilots in 10 days told to depart the company and Dubai.

An erosion in T&C's in the last 7 years that is almost beyond comprehension.
Flight time limits that make no sense, ( in other words they are dangerous)
Upgrades that are not based on rules delineated in the FOM.... wait for more !!! haha

Management, that should in all honesty be referred to as........... MISMANAGEMENT

A bidding system that does not work... well in fact the company is not even using it as intended.
A rostering department that does as IT PLEASES !!!! with the full support of ED and TCAS
Accidents and near accidents occuring on a weekly basis now.
Accomodations department......... well what more needs to be said.
And a city that is disgusting by most standards.

ZERO support from management. In fact they are more detrimental to flight ops than anything else.
3 cabin crew a week who get 'stood down' during a flight because they fall ill or they have simply reached their limit. And another 20 cabin crew each week being put on FINAL NOTICE............

A complete restructuring of flight times limits and how they are calculated, in order to force pilots and crew to work insane hours. money money money.

Multiple changes to SOPS, on a monthly basis, to cover mismanagement's incompetence.

A new policy...... in addition to the flight safety debriefs, to point out deficiencies in a given pilot. Not many people know of this new ' disciplinary' policy by the way.

DEC's still coming in spite of the fact they tell us we have too many pilots at the moment, which is a complete lie.

Yeah brother........ keep spouting your BS, but you will have to deal with the consequences after your buddies arrive here and then realize you are a Capt America in sheeps clothes.

Give the new joiners a 1-2 year honeymoon and then see what happens, lol. Darn, bring on the F/O's, makes my job easier and more secure, but then again, I couldn't sleep at night if I was not forthright and honest about things.

Damn, it was only a few months back when I was encouraging people to consider EK. Amazing how things can change so fast, and I'm in the lucky few under the radar of the Nazi Brown Shirts at EK. Goodness me, I slide through life without altercation and for that I am happy. I fear things will become more and more difficult at EK in the future though.

[cosmodrift]

Sorry you are disappointed with EK, Mensa and you are probably right about that, but it looks like you don't have a clue about the world you are living at. You are simply describing aviation industrie problems nowadays. I flew with the worst Captains over all continents available on this planet in 4 different companies and many times the flight was safe just because of my presence in the cockpit. These safety issues you mentioned are the most trivial occurrences on most of airlines in the world for ages. I am an eye witness.

The question remains. To rule Emirates out, what's the other option?
Don't forget that even with all this T&C downgrade EK is managing to keep you flying when most companies are firing people.

[cosmodrift]

Mensa, just to give you an example of the real world: A South American captain will face all the bad things you mentioned with no bidding system at all, 8 scattered days off over the month for U$4.000 and from that amount he'll be deducting income tax, rent or mortgage, children school fees, health insurance, electricity & water fees and more.
They have to drive themselves to work no matter what time of the day or night even against the law, for the night example.
Cabin crew are forced to fly over legal duty limits and often are taken from family reunion to fly in their days off. And they go, otherwise they are fired immediately.
Cabin crew will make net U$600 a month.
Do the maths. I'll let Asian issues to another day.

[mensaboy]

First off Cosmo, I do apologize for appearing rude, and I admit that most of what you say is understandable but that is where our agreements end. In fact, I do have a ''clue about the world I am living at'' ( I think you meant IN) because I have had an illustrious career of airline failures and crappy jobs for sure.

What angers me most about EK, is that they have already surpassed the limits of tolerability for an average pilot, yet they persist in pretending to be the model of CRM and management. The truth could not be further from what they decree. I only mentioned ONE instance in the cockpit and I agree it was not very serious as compared to a lot of my experiences and the experiences of most pilots.

And yes, most experienced pilots not already at EK, should ''rule out Emirates'' but I admit there are not many other options. You mentioned that EK is managing to keep me flying while most other companies are firing people, but there is a huge difference between most other companies. EK is still profitable !!

So this begs the question, why are they taking things to such an extreme? It boils down to a few points.

1- Greed
2- Management styles
3- Stupidity........ because the short term benefits of hacking away at employee T&C's will bite them in the ass in the long run.
4- The inability of pilots to properly address issues......... partly because people like you keep telling the rest of us that we are lucky to have a job. And partly because we are a disjointed and self-serving occupation.
5-A disconnect between the operational people and the idiots in the offices
6-A lack of regard for our profession and what is involved in being a good pilot
7-A lack of understanding of our job and how important it is to an airline

I reiterate, that being truthful should not be condemned. Although EK might appear better than most airline jobs to prospective F/O's, it is not the same secure, healthy prosperous job it was, as little as 3 years ago. Things have deteriorated greatly and this trend will continue.

Flying is great and that is part of the reason I am a happy man, but I feel compelled to express my viewpoint that Dubai and EK have lost their lustre. If I was a prospective F/O, regardless of my circumstance yet knowing what I know now, I would never in a million years consider this job.

I get a little side-tracked after hearing some people expound on the virtues of EK without regard for reality. I then return home to read another illiterate email from Ed telling pilots how to do their job. The man is an idiot and he is one of our bosses! This company hires the dregs of the universe and then they put a LOCAL above them after a certain amount of time. It is shocking and this attitude will be the demise of this ****-hole. Pardon my language.

[forum newbie]

Fired 7 pilots in the last 10 days??? What was the reason?