Emirates Hold Pool

[cosmodrift]

You said nothing new, Mensa.
4- The inability of pilots to properly address issues......... partly because people like you keep telling the rest of us that we are lucky to have a job. And partly because we are a disjointed and self-serving occupation.Could not agree more and yes: You are very, very lucky you have a job.

I reiterate, that being truthful should not be condemned. Although EK might appear better than most airline jobs to prospective F/O's, it is not the same secure, healthy prosperous job it was, as little as 3 years ago. Things have deteriorated greatly and this trend will continue. Correct. No news here.

If I was a prospective F/O, regardless of my circumstance yet knowing what I know now, I would never in a million years consider this job.Prospective F/O? There are several captains in the pool. You know how is to be in your shoes and in your shoes only.

The man is an idiot and he is one of our bosses! This company hires the dregs of the universe and then they put a LOCAL above them after a certain amount of time.Oh, yeah. There are no idiots calling the shots at Korean Air, Singapore, China Airlines, Jet Airways, Ryan Air or in whatever company you came from. Only at EK.:D

[fliion]

Mensa,

The point of my post, in line with the thread i.e. poolies, is not to defend EK but rather to let the guys know who are waiting in the wings - is that EK is a good option. There are far worse places to be. So we would all like to know in light of your points - where do you suggest these career oriented pilots go in todays environment. Just a short list will suffice.

If your T&C's have been depleted over the last seven years - then why are you still here. You have had six years to move to another co. where the situ is better.

7 pilots - please expand.

f.

[oz in dxb]

I have done a "quick" calculation on Boeing numbers only as it will be the fastest growing fleet in EK.
Currently we have 600 Captains and 630 F/Os (APPROXIMATELY)
Currently we have 77 Boeings.

My calculations are that we have 7.7 Capt and 8.0 F/Os per aircraft.
If 10 more aircraft were to be delivered this year and NO more recruitment was done, we would then have 6.8 Capt and 7.0 F/Os per aircraft.

If the same ratio (7.7 and 8.0) was to be maintained, then an additional 70 Capts and 80 F/Os would be needed this year.

So make you minds up guys what will happen.

Oz

[takisdro]

I guess we are done with the math!

[forum newbie]

have you people heard anything from the reliable hr staff?

[Obbie]

It was a year ago today that I was in Dubai for my interview.

Still have no word yet.

I guess the ice starts to get thin from here on in....

Oh no, whats that cracking sound.......:eek:

[takisdro]

Doomsday!Me too,I was interviewed 22nd of April,last year,of course.
According to the letter,we have to wait until August,I suppose,the very latest,when the last September courses will be assigned.
Still,it was not so clear to me,that note for the "month to month basis".
The only bad news I read,was that EK is facing quite a loss from it's cargo operations,so they canceled four out of the eight 777 cargo version.Which,presumably,means less pilots?
Anybody,anything?

[kashima]

It is true, your application expires the day you interviewed. Poolies were told class dates in July, August, Sept. in the April update. I here already, July is out. Any reason for the class dates being moved back? It seems like the communication is not good and HR really doesn't know much to when class dates are scheduled for. They stopped interviewing in July of 2008, and then a few in Feb 2009.
That doesn't leave a lot of candidates left. Any thoughts.

[takisdro]

I believe that this thread has given all there was for it to give.
Petty,we had some good info coming up for us poolies.

[brewman187]

Hello everyone, I am also swimming in the, what seems much shallower pool still. I have not heard anything as of yet, except for the April update we all seemed to receive. Hopefully HR will send out some sort of update with info we can rely on, whether it be good or bad news. Has anyone contacted HR directly by email or phone? If so, anything you could share would be great. Hang in there guys!

[Bavarian]

I too wished I had better news. But it is pretty obvious that only a handful of eligible candidates will be left over. Communications with HR indicate that a number of poolies will become ineligible due to lack of currency/recency, others as a result of notification periods to their current employers in excess of 3 months.

[Fubaliera]

Im shocked that EK HR rather let everyone expire than offer Fly Dubai as a alternate solution . Even if we dont take it thats the least they could do for having us wait for over a year

[kingpost]

The level of the pool will slowly start reducing. Hang in there, recruitment starts soon.

[kashima]

So when you say "recruitment starts soon", are you referring to poolies soon getting contracts? or the whole recruitment/interview process will start again soon?
It appears to me that the pool is being depleted quickly due to application expiration and lack of currency. The big question still remains, when will the few still a float receive a contract?

[fatbus]

Unfortunately EK want to rid themselves of some of the poolies. This is the reason for some of the restrictions they have imposed. A very large number of hight time widebody Airbus and Boeing pilots on the market and EK want them or as many as they can get. Also, and this is nothing personnel, but EK has not had a great deal of success with CRJ/RAJ pilots, stats speak for themselves. Certain countries seem to have pilots that come expecting to hand fed everything and just have a hard time with the shortness of the training.

For those that do come, do the work and try not to fall behind. It tends to pick up speed going down hill.

[Saltaire]

I have to agree, although some are quiet capable and will be fine. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but each of the recent spat of incidences have involved this group from the RJ world. Some unfortunate timing with those of this type of background in the pool.

I do feel though, that if you preformed well and passed the interview, then I think you should be given the opportunity. Unfair to brushstroke the entire group...

[Alvord]

I agree with Saltaire. Not fair to say all CRJ/ERJ guys are not up to speed. You will find some great pilots and personalities among them and great experience, as goes for any fleet around the world. You also get your bad apples in the bunch as well with any plane/company. I have to say thought that RJ pilots for the most part fly multiple flights a day in and out of poor weather and difficult conditions and gain lots of experience as opposed to 1 T/O and landing in a 10 hour period. Most will do fine with a high workload. My 2 cents.
Alvord.:ok:

[forum newbie]

If rj/erj guys past the interview, then they should get the same level of respect that others have gotten. I am in the pool at another carrier and i recently just found out that i am slotted for a class above guys with boeing/airbus and military background. I spoke to my current hr recruiter and he told me that they dont discriminate between the types.

If you are good enought to get hired, then you are good enough for class.

Wish you poolies the best, and i hope that hr shows some sort of professionalism to atleast update you guys on the situation. I made my decision awhile back, but it hurts to see so many pilots hanging on a string waiting for emirates to show some sign of responsibility.

fb

[Fart Master]

I'm sorry to say this, but it's got nothing to do with respect regarding the rj/crj guys. In the current climate Emirates will take pilots with widebody experience first, plain and simple. EK only took people with rj etc. experience because they had to, not 'cause they wanted to.

Regarding Fly Dubai, EK has no hand in it, it's not their place to offer you a position there. (Yes, I know they helped with FD's recruitment for a bit)

[FlyingOW]

So any idea as to when recruitment might restart? Mid to late '09? Or is this wishful thinking?

Cheers,

OW

[Fubaliera]

Guys Crj guys or no Crj Guys, Lets face it, the glory days of EK are over. The havent hired anybody in over a year,and unlike Ethihad, Qatar, Gulf Air, the profits are given to the royals, not vice versa. I will bet anything that EK lost money last financial year and thats the reason for holding back the numbers. My point is there is nobody to bail them out if they dont make a profit. Lets see how long their cash reserves last. And for you guys asking about recruitment, be polite their are still 150 in a waiting/holdpool list, so hold your horse and get in line.

[Saltaire]

Fub,

You really have no clue what your talking about, it's not based on any facts but speculation and mostly envy. If EK called you tomorrow, you'd be dancing and on the next available flight. EK has been and is still the most desired outfit in the region. Etihad has developed a good foundation based on petro dollars, but it's still not nearly the brand. Qatar and GF are a distant third and fourth...

We wish you the best

[Fubaliera]

Hahahahahahahah sureeeee budy keep dreaming

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Fub habibi, have you been smoking that funny Shisha again :ugh:

SyB :zzz:

[Oblaaspop]

Fub,

It's interesting, you state (with some authority I might add) that "The (sic) haven't hired anyone for over a year", yet a quick glance at the seniority list tells me that exactly 236 new pilots have joined between 19th May 2008 and today.

I would hazard a wild guess (something you seem to have down to a fine art), that 236 new pilots in the last year is precisely 236 more than the 'tin pot' outfit you work for has hired!!:}

Mate (and I use that term loosely), do everyone a favour and keep your trap shut. Unless of course you actually know what you are talking about (which I very much doubt).

BTW I'm very glad our recruitment department rejected you (Soooooo obvious!):E

[Saltaire]

Kudos to recruitment, another loose cannon denied. What a sad display.

Good luck to those that deserve it.

[oz in dxb]

Some recruitment may occur around Sept this year, however it won't be in the numbers that we have seen previously.
This is due to all pilots now flying more hours per month than before.

I think that if you are not experienced on either B777 or A330/340 with sufficent experinece, your chances this year are going to be slim.

I'm afraid that manegement have cottoned on to the idea that it is cheaper to pay the guys for more flying per month (without the overtime) than it is to recruit (having to pay a basic salary, accommodation and so on)

So if you look at the numbers I gave in another previously the average crew per A/C will go from about 8 to just around 7.

Good luck,

Oz

[takisdro]

Still the update letter that came on April says a little different and so many rumors in this forum were wrong(I don't blame anybody,it is after all a rumor's forum),so why not to keep up with what Emirates is saying,which it seems that it is going on a plan?

[FlyingOW]

Thanks OZ, though not what I wanted to hear.

Regards,

OW

[forum newbie]

Some of you need to show some respect to the numerous poolies who are on this board. Many people interivewed, hired, and waited to no avail but the only thing some of you can ask is when the hiring resumes.

Show some respect and go ask that question on a thread that is designed for interviews and interview questions. We step on each other to show our own personal indulgences and negate the feelings of so many who were hired who are waiting for any chance of an update.

Fub, you are most likely right about hiring crj/erj guys but i was the only person hired in my group so that does not mean that ek was forced to hire me cause they did not have any pilots to choose from...they hired me for the simple reason i met all their requirements.

fb

[FlyingOW]

In retrospect my post may have been a tad insensitive, and for that I do apologise.

I am certain that EK will HIRE "poolies" first as slots for more drivers become available.

Best of luck to all,

OW

[Hook]

Much has been written with regards to the standard of the CRJ/ERJ pilots who came to EK. Most seem to imply that the poor standards (the general rule, not the exception) of these guys is because of their previous aircraft type.
This is not the case. The poor standards came about because the guys who came from the US expected spoon-feeding in all there is to know when transitioning to a new aircraft type, new company rules (we have a lot of those), proper R/T (don't get me started) and operating in parts of the world they didn't know existed.
At EK, things are done differently - trainees have to work HARD to get through. Not impossibly hard mind you. But certainly showing up for a sim session or a flight without having prepared beforehand does you no good. Hence the poor reputation US pilots have at EK.
Again, this does not apply to everybody, but certainly most. I don't blame EK for biding their time for better quality candidates.
Not meant to aggravate anyone - just stating what I think is fact.

[Obbie]

Management meeting next week to determine which ones
will be selected for Aug and Sept courses.

The rest, thrown to the street like so much useless trash.

At least it is finally going to be over.....PREPARE TO EXIT THE HOLD !!!!!

[Fubaliera]

Dude if the TRUTH HURTS im sorry. Just for your FYI employee number means nothing, it could be cadets, its could be guys who interviewed before,so i suggest you keep YOURRRRRRRRRRR mouth shut in your sinking ship airline.

[Oblaaspop]

:D I rest my case!! You numpty!

[Fubaliera]

I would if I were you too.

[takisdro]

What happened to July courses?

[takisdro]

I just received the May update email and now I know what happened to the July courses.Apparently a week or so to the final.Good luck Gents.

[White Knight]

Fuba is a dreamer:{:{ And really not very clued up about EK despite his numerous postings....

[Staggerwings]

Hello fellow Poolies

Considering this part of the last EK update

"We expect this will be before the end of May but it could extend into early June. "

Does anybody have been contacted yet or maybe know somebody who had ???

1 year of swimming pool

Staggerwings:ok:

[Kenny]

I was told a few days ago that the final number is 48. Courses to be in Sept and Oct. Apparently there are also plans for a Mar '10 course but considering how far off that is, who knows if it'll happen.

Those on the list for courses, are the guys EK has deemed to be the most experienced. ie, Boeing, Airbus, high time and airline experience. Emails are going out this week to the lucky few.

No recruitment planned for the next fiscal year as aircraft deliveries are going to be deferred.

As always, I've no reason to doubt the info but it's always subject to change.

[Fullboat2]

Just received an email this morning from Emirates saying that they were awarding me a 777 class date on August 24th.

[CAVnotOK]

Ask them if you will be employed under the same terms and conditions they were offering when you interviewed??

[brewman187]

Hey Fullboat, when were you interviewed? What time do you have? bus or boeing time? Any other info in the email you can give? Thanks and congrats!

[abortt]

Just been offered a 777 course late sept. Interviewed in June 08. Currently flying the 744.
Some new terms and conditions attached to offer that reflects what has already been posted here !
Good luck to the rest of you

[sheiken around]

Hey Abortt, pls do us a favor and tell us what the changes to the offer made to you are. It'd be interesting to know what they're offering to you now. Just be careful...."all that glitters isn't gold !!"
Thanks...

[nolimitholdem]

Unless you are unemployed or getting shot at on a daily basis I really don't know why anyone would join this company any more.

Just remember the rule: the best day you will ever work for Emirates Airline is the first one...every single one that follows will be worse. (In terms of T's and C's). The constant, bare-faced lying will get to you sooner or later.

[fatbus]

One of the T and C's that has just changed is free housing, there is now a cap on utilties 21600 Dhs / year . some guys at DSO have checked their bills 31000 to 40000. Would really like to hear more actual numbers from guys. The memo talked about recovering extra direct from pay at 1000/ month, does that mean that the average is closer to 36000/ year and we are only getting 21600. 21600 is not very much. Water 3fil/L and power 7fil/Kwatt ( i think those are the correct numbers)

Another rumour is deferred orders in 2010/2011, dont be looking at EK for a upgrade quickly. 2400 pilots year end 2009/2010 (Apr). Airbus upgrades starting again in Aug , have not heard about the 777.

[Fullboat2]

I have a ton of right seat 737 glass time and no real PIC. I interviewed last May and got a class last year that I declined.

I've heard a bunch of bad stuff about EK but there seems to be some good there. I wont be able to do an August class so I'll see if they can let me slide into the September one.

Thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[lalo737]

At The Time Any Idea How Many Pilots Had Been Called By Hr.?
Or When Is The Dead Line Day To Receive The Mail ?


Cheers.

[5star]

from the C conferences :

ZERO new aircraft deliveries in FY 2010-2011 (well guess that must be the proof that Dubai Inc. is struggling to raise cash).
Upgrade slots for those in the company more than 2 years : between 5 and 6 years.
For the new joiners : A lot more.

Well guess you can scrap that quick command of your positive's list.

[orientaldriver]

I have been offered a position on B777 starting on August. I declined as I have a better job for now. Ex skipper B747 and B737. What is different from interview is flying pay going up to 83-92 hours and housing amount.
Good luck to all of you going there.

[caneworm]

expect nothing and you will never be disappointed...:ok:

[forum newbie]

My buddy just got an email and he declined for a september class. He had heavy time and experience but it did not make sense for him to leave his company with the changes in package.

Best of luck to all you poolies. I emailed hr a month ago and told them to take me off the list.

fb

[bf109]

I also declined the offer. It was not that appealing anymore, for me anyway. Good luck to all poolies.

[Romasik]

Interviewed in May 2008. Just offered a job with Airbus class starting in September. Turned down :{ due to long time to command. Currently 747 Captain with 15000 total time, 5000 PIC on 747, 3500 PIC 757/767. Good luck to those who continue!:ok:

[CAVnotOK]

EK management have made it perfectly clear that we should not complain about the Company slashing our Ts and Cs, but rather just be happy to have a job working for one of the greatest companies in the universe.

If this sounds like your dream job, then come on down, but just expect to continue to make further donations to keep this amazing airline from sinking in the quicksand.

[fatbus]

Have a long hard look at your present job before coming here. If you are out of work or with a company about to go under then that is a different story.
900 hours / year min days off and the cost of everything going up not to mention the reduction in the T&C's.

[pool]

I have to second that. It has become a job like all the other jobs out there. If you have one, then you'll just change your location. If your T&Cs are dilluting, they do the same here. If your taxes are going bezerk, believe me, the hidden ones here, from gvt or company do exactly the same. If you are threatened by redundancy or downsizing, here you are threatened by the sack for things that mock any description. You are just replacing the threat of redundancy by the threat of beeing sacked. The only difference here is a fearful cockpit atmosphere and thus affected flight safety.

[fly737]

Guys, please don't apply for Emirates. stay where you re, this place does'nt deserve us....

[disappoint]

from EK crewportal:

School Fees
My children's school fees will rise by 12% from next term. Will the allowance increase accordingly. - Question Posted on 29th May 2009 This year the remuneration and benefits package has been frozen and therefore an increase to the Education Support Allowance (ESA) cannot be considered at this time. However the company continues to review benefits and allowances, so when the situation changes, if the review of ESA justifies amendments to the allowance then these will be presented for approval along with any other recommendations. Unfortunately the company has no influence on the school terms and conditions and fee levels, therefore if parents are unhappy with any new fee levels suggested by a school then are encouraged to collectively lodge their complaints with the Ministry of Education and the school. Regards Helena White Human Resources Manager (Operations)



that means:
2 children in secondary school..have to pay 16000 dhs from my pocket....

[kingpost]

I've just worked out that we have, up to this point in time, we have received a reduction of approx 20% to date and that's before the top up utility bill has to paid.

It's really not what it use to be. fear on the flight deck and we're getting poorer by the day. Do not kid yourself - time to command will now be running at over 5 years - you'll be broke by the time you get your command.

If EK can change the contract, which is illegal, don't be surprised if it changes again & again & ..........

Please be careful those of you giving up good jobs to come here. Those who are unemployed, it's obvious, but don't be surprised.

[asiasky]

Hi folks,

Interviewed last summer and did not get any mail those days, concerning the august and september courses. For those who are in the same situation than me, Do we can expect an email saying us bye bye from the pool, and just the silence means we are out of the big ball. Thanks for the comments. Congratulations and good luck for the guys called for the incoming classes.

[FlyingOW]

Disappoint,

Is that additional 16,000 dhs for your kids school fees:
- per year?
- per term?
- or per month?

I hope you meant the former and not the latter!

OW

[skype]

Flying OW

I guess that would be per year............... but put that in perspective thats almost one month's salary for a first officer. Add this with your costs of elec. and water. no 3% and an increase in the work hours to around 90 per month.

As one F@*ked off EK pilot :ugh: unless your unemployed or being shot at dont come to the middle east. Even if you are unemployed remember as someone said earlier your best day will be your first at EK all downhill from there. Because you will then be bonded for 3 years and yes it does feel like a jail sentenance not only for you but for your whole family.

for once please people listen to what PPRUNE is saying i wish i had

cheers

[forum newbie]

Gents,

I have a very reliable friend on the inside and he mentioned that hr is dumbfounded why there are so many people who have turned down EK during this troubling time. The economy will pick up and if you are contracted for 3 years, you might miss the opportunity back home. Once you become an expat, you will always be an expat.

Especially with the upgrade times at 7+ plus years for newjoiners, it really does not make sense if you have a family. With the increase in educational costs for children, the increase hours (less time home), and the new DEWA fees...it would make sense if one just stayed put at your current airline. I worked out the numbers, and a new joiner will barely make ends meet if you have two or more children. With one child, you might be a able to put something aside. If you are single, with no responsibilities, then it will make sense to make the move. But i think with the diminishing lifestyle, the bias laws, no equal protection, it would make more sense to stay at home.

Remember that if your wife is not happy, then you will not be happy. Are you willing to take the chance?

[takingover]

For those of you who are thinking of comming to Emirates, let me tell you a story.

A guy arrives, all excited ready to commence his new career. Gets put in a villa under the flightpath, a mile or two from the runway. No curfew here, so aircraft going over 24/7. Lack of sleep starts to hamper his concentation & training.

Gets through the sim OK though & starts line training. Things are looking good. On his last line training flight he gets paired with a TRI who is a DEC & has only been with the company less than two & a half years. He is flying into Manchester & has never been there before (don't know about the TRI). This is sector 9 (thats right - you only get 10 sectors of line training!).

He misreads the ATIS & sets up for 05L instead of 05R. TRI doesn't pickup that anything is wrong. It all starts going bad when they realise that they are being vectored for 05R. They are visual, so the F/O lines up visually & is fully stabilised. The TRI then calls for a missed approach at low altitude, as he is unhappy with the fact that they haven't briefed for this runway. The F/O defers to authority & complies, but has no tracking in the FMC or on the ND to follow. He is not aware that the chart for 05R is on the back of the 05L chart. He waits for tracking instructions from TRI. TRI is on the radio arguing with ATC over radar vectors. The F/O continues straight ahead, still waiting for tracking directions from the PNF (TRI). The TRI eventually convinces ATC to provide radar vectors.

The problem is that the missed approach off 05R calls for a right turn at 800' & they are now way past this point. However, the aircraft was never in any danger, there was no breakdown in seperation with any other aircraft & at no time did they come close to terrain.

TRI debriefs F/O at hotel. F/O goes on to pass his clearance to line check a few days later.

The company then finds aut about it & calls the crew in to discuss the incident. The F/O has his successful clearance to line check voided & he is told that remedial training is required - some sims & more line training & then another CTL check.

While he was waiting for that to be scheduled he receives an e-mail from the company requiring his presence at a disciplinary hearing in a few days time. Shortly after this hearing he is sacked. He appeals, but the appeal is rejected.

So he heads home soon. Because emirates requires you to quit your previous job before starting with them, he had to beg for his old job back. Unfortunately that fell on deaf ears as there is currently a recruiting ban in his old airline due to the tough economic times at the moment. So he has no job.

He & his family have been financially ruined by Emirates. They have to sell their house & borrow money from family to pay their debts to Emirates & the bank in Dubai, so they can leave the country & not be thrown in jail. He lost Dhs30,000 alone on the car he had purchased. Emirates is entitled to the training bond even if they sack you. You also have to pay back the furniture allowance (30,000) & the car loan if you took it. They can also give you only 1 weeks notice if they so desire.

So beware! Being a trainee will not protect you at Emirates when you make a small mistake or the TRI stuffs up. Because you have to quit your old job before you start here, you will have nothing to go back to if it all goes wrong.

Think things through very carefully!

[twieke]

Have to agree with the Seaman,

ONLY COME IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER JOB111

[twieke]

That should have been,


......job !!!

[rahulbhave]

hi guys,
had applied for dec(direct entry capt) a330 emirates as am already flying it.was informed that i am shortlisted and in the pool.kindly advise the approx waiting period.any and all other pertinent information will be highly appreciated.
thanks in advance,
Rahul.

[gardenshed]

Would STRONGLY advise that you read all the above posts and think long and hard about leaving what you have and coming here. People are not writing this stuff because they have nothing else to do:ugh:

[forum newbie]

Besides the guy in Manchester, there are numerous other pilots who have had their career ruined by Emirates. When i interviewed, i asked hr about the various concerns of pilots about the T&Cs. Human Resources response was that it was just a vocal minority and not to believe everything you read on these sites. After speaking with numerous pilots who started class last year, most were disappointed with their decision and some even quit. It made my decision so much easier since i value happiness over flying a heavy jet internationally. Unfortunately, most that decide to leave do not have a job to go back home to. Some are having marriage difficulties and others are barely surviving going further into debt. I also have a former colleague who just walked away from Emirates and did not even consider going back. He posts on here and mentioned that his life was more important than a job. He is presently unemployed, but happy.

fb

[i-Robot]

Does anyone know for sure how many actually turned down the employment offer?

[cosmodrift]

What a bunch of crap, again. Now that EK is finally hiring again, what for the poolies should be the glory, we see these brainless maniacs spreading so many stupidities.

How come you can ever consider an FO with children, flying for EK, has any financial issue caused by low payment or high costs at Dubai? That's a big lie.
Ok that costs are higher anywhere and we have to put a little more here and there, but to the point we are unable to save any? Someone talked about raising debts or leaving Dubai after years with no money. Are you nuts?

The caps for the electricity and water are more than fair. A regular family, using it with responsibility will never get to worry. These guys that are complaining are those who maintain 24/7 fountains, swimming pools or water their gardens permanently beside leaving their Air Conditioning on for hours when there's nobody home.

T&Cs are downhill everywhere in the world. EK is hiring in the middle of the crisis.
You are ungratiful bastards that are still flying because company found the way to keep you flying. Ungratiful I say again.

This topic regards to the Holding Pool and the perspective of being hired. Moderator, please check on the guys telling poolies not to come based on lies and overreaction. This is past advise and providing information: WARNINGS have been issued. This is ridiculous.

Poolies, I hope no one makes decision based on what's written here. IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE DAILY REALITY OF FLYING FOR EMIRATES.

Find someone you thrust that is working for EK(Hope your contact is not one of these losers) to get proper guidance.

Emirates was better, but it's still the best.

[pool]

cosmo (or should we assume CaptAmerica, or EGT?)

you just provided the best and most vivid proof of EK managment procedures.

Go ahead guys, jump on the bandwagon of well orchestrated smokes and mirrors.
I do agree though that you might not want to believe some rant around here.
My best advice is, buy a cheap ticket, come to the sandpit and talk to us, the guys from the line, make your own assessment.

(When you finally got the real picture, ask cosmo via pm to meet up in a nice bar and try not to break his face.)

[CAVnotOK]

Cosmodrift,

Unfortunately, you are the "maniac" here my friend.

All I can say is that wherever you were working before EK must have been a living hell. If you can seriously say that "EK was better, but it's still the best", then you are completely delussional.

And to call everyone else who is pis*ed off having their Ts & Cs degraded by Emirates "ungreatful bastards". Not too many people share your views that we are ungreatful, you belong in the office, not in the cockpit.

I on the other hand give warning to all of the "poolies", and say that Emirates has become, and is in fact the WORST employer that I have worked for. The bottom line is that they simply don't give a sh*t about the pilots or their families.

Be very, very careful who you choose to believe. Talk to your friends working here and get the real truth. Don't bother with the Recruitment team as they will lie through their teeth to suck you in.

I will be leaving in the coming months.

Good luck to all of you, and hope you make the right decision.

[White Sausage]

Cosmodrift, either you cannot read or you cannot understand. Either way, what YOU write is absolute bullcr@p! Lots of colleagues have warned you and other wannabees, but you don´t wanna listen :ugh:
What is so difficult to understand??? EK was a great airline to work for, and I was more than proud to be a part of it. Now it is just a sad shadow of its former glory and I am ashamed of what is is now. People don´t write here because they don´t have better things to do, no, they write here to warn people like YOU! People who don´t want to listen to very valid complaints!!
So stuff your insults somewhere where the sun doesn´t shine and stop posting such a cr@p. You don´t know it better, but we do. And we say: STAY AWAY IF YOU CAN!!!

[FcU]

..and if you do accept the job, uproot your family and move to Dubai, Great!! But 6 months from now when you find out that it wasn't just a vocal minority making alot of noise and you want to complain (in your winiest voice) about how bad things are, and how things are getting worse, and the company is being unfair, and the family is unhappy in the 2 bed temp apt blah blah blah...keep your F*&^%$G mouth shut ! I don't care and neither does anyone else who warned you. Welcome aboard!!!

I have been here 10 + years and loved it for the first 4 years but that company is gone replaced by a leaner and much meaner shadow of its former self. I used to be the greatest recruiter for this company but sadly not anymore.

I will repeat what has been said here already. If you have a family,

DO NOT LEAVE A DECENT JOB TO COME HERE!

[fatigueflyer]

Hello this is Mrs Fatigued who does the accounts for the 'Fatigued Family' for the past 10+ years. Be under no disillusion when my husband moved to the pit we slowly sold our investment properties as we couldn't prop up the mortgage repayments. We couldn't afford proper food, life was substandard vege with mince and chicken. One of our boys has 'boobs' from the hormones in the chicken. The cost of living is a lot more now and with 5 to 6 years to command believe me a family will not survive on an F/O salary.
The utilities cap is off by minimum of $7,000 to $14,000 for a villa.
If you get a new villa you will get a sand pit that needs landscaping more $$$ and watering...:eek:

Cost of living has gone up dramatically in the last 10 years if you give up any decent life to move to the pit will have far more reaching costs than just the $$$ each month out of your salary. As said above posts if you are unemployed its a no brainer Emirates is a job, otherwise think carefully.

When the sh** hits the fan the company will not support you. Our family has nearly been ripped apart over the years even though my husband has gone beyond his call of duty.

Wives thinking of relocating be warned if you ever flounder there will always be a kind cabin crew member willing to cater to any of your husband's needs. They do not care if the said pilot is married with kid's. Any cracks in your relationship will be blown wide open with no support for either party from the company. These are not bitter words as some how we came out the other end of the 'Emirates' experience. My father-in-law always reminded me keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer. That is what I have done and made sure I know exactly what is going on. It is enough to break your heart, what has happened to some beautiful families in this place.

When family is ill or dying you will have to get back the best way you can if you have already used your annual leave ticket. Which usually means they are happy to drag you to the pit but hard luck getting back home in an emergency.

I have wanted to post for the longest time but thought why bother until I read the earlier post by cosmodrift which is the biggest load of garbage ever.

Our only objective everyday is to one day leave the pit with all of us still alive and a family unit. We will never be rich but we have each other.

[Hook]

We couldn't afford proper food, life was substandard vege with mince and chicken.

If that is really the case, then I'm sorry but your accounting skills suck. If you need to warn people off coming to EK, then please state where the company is f***ing up (plenty of it ) not where you are.

Don't get me wrong -I agree with most that has been written (except cosmo's drivel) All those who are interested in coming to EK and already have a decent job - stay put.

[EGGW]

Cosmodrift. Are you in touch with reality pal???? An interesting rant. Are you on those funny pills?

EGGW

[tbaylx]

Interestingly enough Cosmo, i worked with a nice American DEC the other day and he mentioned reading all the negative posts on PPRUNE prior to gettting hired and thinking...well those guys must be a very unhappy minority and it can't possibly be that bad. 12 months later and he said i wish i had paid more attention to what was written, cause 90% of it's true, and it really can be that bad.

Doesn't take long to figure it out once you are over here. Still better than being unemployed..but only just.

[disappoint]

another scam:
this year's message to all staff:
Chairman's Officehttps://groupworld.emirates.com/exchweb/img/clear1x1.gif .............While it might seem the fruits of our extraordinary grit and determination, hard work and improved efficiencies will go unrewarded, I would like you to consider this: we have managed to retain everyone, while others are slashing staff numbers; we have dramatically increased travel benefits for you and your extended family; we continue to invest in training and development,.......

how does it come my staff travel ticket to Europe has increased by 35 % ? :D

[yada.yada.yada]

Yeah, and you noticed how no target for next year announced. They just wanna make sure that its not set too low (indicitave of the current climate) in case things turn around and they have to pay out a lot of cash come next March.

They take the "let see what happens" approach so that if there is an uptick in economic activity...then they set another unrealistic target. :mad:

[takisdro]

The message to the poolies is pretty clear,still all this hell broke through after recruiting started.Before there was all this posts,but not that bad.

[Fullboat2]

FWIW, I've declined the 777 class in August due to personal reasons.

I have a good friend who's been at EK for the past year. He had some headaches with housing and tells me that management does mislead quite a bit, actually he said flat out lies to ya, but he is not that upset about being at EK. He said he'd go again knowing what he knows now.

I've been in contact with HR a bit and they seem to be awfully nice, at least the person that I am dealing with.

Again, I'm not flying for them so I can't speak from experience, but they do seem to be getting just thrashed right now, not sure that it is all warranted or not.

[cosmodrift]

I never said EK was flawless. My other posts are there.
The fact is those who are complaining so viciously got tired of their lives here.
They are tired of being expats and not being able to do things they did in the past, back at their former homes.
That’s personal. Nothing to do with Emirates.

I am still happy here because, in spite of recent degradation on T&C and general problems of the city, I can still do things I love.
I can bid for rosters I like and even flying more hours I still can stay a lot with my family.
I feel safe when going out with my family and I am saving money.
I see friends afraid of losing their jobs at Singapore, India and others already unemployed.
After a long time they are finally fixing the housing problems and pilots are moving to their permanent houses.

I feel sorry for this training FO that was fired, but this kind of injustice is not a privilege issue to EK. It became a mark here when in others companies something like that is so recurrent that looks like a policy.

Try to live more of your day. One moment at a time. Realize what’s going on in the world around you and you’ll see how bad things really are out there.
To open fire against who is paying your salary will lead you to nothing, specially if you have no other options.

[Chewthecrude]

I've only just seen this thread. I'm too busy flying to spend time on my computer!

I've never seen morale so low since my time in Emirates. HR have turned into an embarressment to themselves.

The DEWA allowance does not cover a families needs even when really trying hard to economise. With no 3 percent, no payrise, no school fees allowance increase this is now the straw to break the camel's back!

For an FO with family in a villa you WILL NOT save. After setting up your new home here you will steadily find yourself digging forever deeper into your pockets to stay afloat.

It was a great job however it has taken a sharp and distinct dive in terms of financial stability & job satisfaction. However so has much of the world. This is a one way situation that will no doubt not change when the world economy turns.

I would never tell someone to not come however to be fortold is to be forwarned

[White Sausage]

Cosmo,
don´t tell me or others what we are or how we feel. You have no clue! It is not about being tired of being an expat. that is rubbish. I enjoy being an expat and I don´t want to go back home.
This whole tread is about eroding conditions, breaches of contracts and outright lies by EK. We tell EK wannabees what is going on here, how we are treated since about 2 or 3 years. If you are happy, fine! Wait another year or so, and that might change. Just because you are so happy here doesn´t mean that EK has the right to breach contracts. And just because your former job might have been a lot worse than this one now doesn´t mean that this here is great anymore. It could be, but EK chose to alienate most of its pilot (and cabin!) workforce for no apparent reason. That is a fact and it should be known to applicants!

[Fullboat2]

Hi guys,

I'm way too lazy to keep searching and I've spent the last half hour trying...

Both my buddy and I have been offered EK class dates this fall. I've declined mine for now and he is debating the same thing. Can anyone answer a quick question or two?

1) It appears that if you fly approx 90 hours as an FO you'd end up around $7,200 a month. Does that increase every year with longevity or anything?

2) I remember reading something about a pay bump every year but that might have been profit sharing, not sure. Anyone give me a realistic expectation of take home salary every year as an FO and whether or not it changes.

No need to tell me to search, just if anyone has a couple quick answers, great, if not, no big deal.

Thanks!

[yada.yada.yada]

Check the Emirates Group Careers site for starting salary details. You receive 45 AED per hour up to 92 hours before overtime is triggered (on average).

The 3% seems to be at their discretion. We did not receive it this year.

[Chewthecrude]

3 percent didn't happen this year! No pay increase. You will now need to pay money towards your utility bill. The cost of living here has gone up immensely. Inflation is onits way up.
At this time of year the shops tend to put up their prices when most families go home...probably so you don't notice is so much when you get back.

The shops in the malls have put their prices up to counteract the fewer shoppers spending. Why should they lose out because of a credit crunch???!!**

90 hours is a lot of hours and quite a few people are close to that each month. & fatigued.

Lots of night flying. A roster bidding system that is largely uncontrollable.

If you are offered the Boeing maybe it's worth it for the rating and the time. As for the Airbus stay where you are (unless it's the A380 where you won't make money because you won't be flying much).

The contract is not worth the paper it's written on. You will be an expat and treated as such.

[Fullboat2]

Thanks for the headsup. The Emirates Career website is where I came up with the $7,200 per month number.

No offense to anyone, but that just does not seem like a lot... and it seems from your reply that if you're a 5 year FO you're still making the same number unless they choose to give you a raise?

That's $86,000 a year.... for living in Dubai? Yikes!

Please let me know if I'm missing anything!

[Wiley]

No offense to anyone, but that just does not seem like a lot... Fullboat, that's because it ain't a lot. In my first years in the Sandpit on a basic FO's salary, we survived only because I didn't spend most of my allowances and cashed them in to cover the bills. (How boring is that?) From what I can see, the FOs of today, (or those with school aged children at least) are doing it tougher now than it was for my generation of FOs. If you're single, it's another matter altogether.

[Oblaaspop]

Mate, your question is completely irrelevant....

You just openly stated that you have turned down the course, so if you think that in the current climate you will be given another, you are very much mistaken. We are taking 48 new hires this financial year, 32 invites have gone out, there are around 100 in the pool, so your invite has gone to the next down the list, so... tough titties my friend, even if you did find the package appealing (unlikely) then too bad, you've missed out for a couple of years at least!

Maybe you should have done this sort of 'research' before you came for interview??

Incidentally, this is the first year ever the 3% hasn't been paid. Currently a 4 year F/O is on a basic of circa 25,500 dhs per month ($7000) plus flight pay 4000 dhs for 90 hours ($1100). About $95,000 per year..... I don't see that as being too distressing compared to a US CRJ regional CAPTAIN who will be working harder and earning less (just a wild guess:E)

[what_goes_up]

That's $86,000 a year.... for living in Dubai?
It all depends, where you come from. But you have to look at the package.
With that salary you'd probably be in the 28% tax bracket, right? So you are already on a salary of $110'000. (Don't know if you can avoid US tax though. But that is more a US than an EK problem). Health insurance is paid for and as well housing (if you happen to get a villa...). Even after the last management stunt, most of utilities (cooking gas, elec, water) are are paid as well. For us, cost of living is by far lower then back home. But then again... It all depends on where you come from.
I am on an FO salary and we as a family make a decent living from that wage. Could it be better? Sure it could!
Check what you have in hand and compare. But compare the packages and not just the bare salary stated. The $7200 are "spending money" for me.
Take the $7200 and start adding what you would spend back home for what you get here (no, it's not for free, it's part of the package!!) ($7200+$2000[tax]+.....[housing]+.....[utilities].......)

Don't take me wrong. I am not promoting EK at all. But I think it is worth looking at the full picture and nt only on the shiny new aeroplanes on the one side or the bitching on the other side.
If you are American and love your unionised environment... you'll be at the wrong end here in the sand.

Hope that helps

[mensaboy]

We don't know the circumstances surrounding him turning down the course, EK often allows delaying a course.

Why quote a 4 year F/O's starting salary, and then compare it to a US Regional Captain, which many might consider irrelevant.

I would prefer being an RJ Captain versus an EK F/O, excluding everything other than job profile, salary, and location location location. The big kicker is the long term prospects and job security, which might not be very good for an RJ dude. It is likely that the long term prospects for an EK F/O are not so good either.

To clarify a few points, if a person comes here with a wife (and even moreso with kids), you will struggle financially until you upgrade to Captain. For new joiners, they will likely not upgrade to Captain for 5 years, and considering the accelerating decline of our disposable income and T&C's it will likely take a year or two at a Captain's salary to be where you would have been had you stayed home. 7 years in the sandpit is a long time!

It is a trap when you come to EK nowadays. You sign on the dotted line, make the big move and then later realize you have just limited all your other options for the next 5 years in your flying career. When reality hits, which can take as short as a few months or up to a few years, it is too late in either case.

I cannot understand the mentality of anyone considering coming to DXB nowadays. The only exclusion to that, are pilots out of work and having no other means to support themselves. It is truly THAT pathetic here, and this is from someone who used to be a big EK supporter.

Don't believe one word that EK spouts to you or shows on their website. EK has one of the unhappiest group of pilots I have ever worked with...... in spite of the fact the company MADE a 400M $ profit. Just wait till they start losing money !

[Wiley]

Incidentally, this is the first year ever the 3% hasn't been paid.Not quite true. In 2003 (or was it 2004?), all EK staff got a 5% pay rise. So did the pilots - the same 5% rise as everyone else, which you could either call a 2% payrise plus the contractural 3% increment, or we got the whole 5% as did everyone else, but no increment.

[Obbie]

I believe he was asking the question for the benefit
of his friend, who also has a invite , Oblaaspop.

Maybe you need to call it a day. :oh:

[Surfa]

Got an offer for a 777 class. Have a job making descent money right now flying NG's. What's the consensus on the offer? Go or No Go decision? Everything I am reading is bad news. Is there anything out there that is positive about the place. Have to make a decision between current job making approx. 145K tax free a year with the same benefits as Emirates but living in Saudi Arabia or take Emirates offer flying heavies for first year FO pay. Sounds like a stupid question but hoping for a positive outlook.

Thanks.

[Fullboat2]

There is one in every group isn't there?

Oblaaspop, I very much appreciated your warm and friendly reply. Lemme see if I can clarify a few things for you their 'mate.' First, I'm pretty sure I mentioned I was asking for a friend of mine who has a class date in September. Let me reread my post, yep, sure did. So I find my question pretty relevant.

Point number two. I turned down EK's August class offer because I'm getting married in September. Traveling half way around the world, with my 30 best 'mates' to do it, so jumping into groundschool for the 777 probably wouldn't work.

Subpoint number two dot one. I spoke with the EK hiring department and they have offered to put me in the October Airbus class if they run it. They seem to be a very agreeable sort there in HR, surprising from what I read on these boards.

Point number three. I'm not feeling like my 'titties' have missed out on anything, nor will they, from what I read on the boards here. But I do thank you for your obvious genuine concern.

Point number four. I did do the research when I came out for the interview a year ago. I then filed that information is the "hope to remember.exe" file which obviously is corrupt, hence my questions. But yeah, at some point it was important to me and I knew it.

Point number five. It appears like you believe me to be an RJ captain in the US. Somedays I wish I were, but I'm over here in the sandbox working for a different company that pays about 20% more than the numbers you are quoting...with some pros (and a few cons might I add) over EK.

I hereby apologize to everyone on pprune for wasting valuable electrons trying to get a simple answer to a simple question. I also apologize if I offended anyone by saying 'only' $86,000 for living in Dubai. I was under the impression that Dubai was expensive. Most of all, I want to apologize for any mates that got their titties bent out of shape from my irrelevant queries. I will endeavor to do better.

Mensaboy, thanks for backstop.
And actually, Oblaaspop, thanks for answering my question at the end of your post...coulda done without the first 80% of it though ;0)

I am soooooo outa here!

[Obbie]

Surfa, I think everything that has either been reduced or taken away,
or how they will handle (read sack) you if you make a mistake
has been covered at least 3 times now.

Only you can add up your list of pros and cons that apply
to your personal situation.

You must choose............choose wisely:)

[forum newbie]

Just to add to the debate about rj captain versus EK FO...

When i interviewed last year, i was working as an erj captain who also was a check airman. At the time of my interview, i was making approximately $100k per year and living in base. I was content with my job but emirates offered an exciting lifestyle for both my wife and kids. I was in the pool hoping to get a call for a class. I waited and waited like the other poolies just dreaming about a chance to work at emirates. Then came the delay in aircraft orders, the meltdown of the global economy, and the debacle of the dubai economy. As the weeks turned into months, i started realizing that emirates did not view me as a viable candidate for a class for the simple fact that i flew erjs even though i was the only person that was hired from my group that included boeing and airbus guys. Simply, you are qualified but not as much as others.

I was also in the pool for JetBlue. I started class at JetBlue and have not looked back. I listed pros and cons for both emirates and jetblue. I think they both are excellent jobs but it came down to a simple decision: where would i be happier? Where would i be valued as an employee? Where would i want to retire at?

Lastly, i came to a decision based on my family needs. I could always find another job, but i can not find another wife and kids. I also thought about if i was layed off or terminated for any reason, i could always get unemployment in the states and survive for the foreseable future. In Dubai, i have to find a means to pay off my debt so that i dont have to go to jail, ship my goods, and get my family out as soon as possible. I will always be able to contest my termination such that the company is bounded by legality.

During airport appreciation time, i have chased down emirate crews to get their perspectives at jfk. To my amusement, they have all advised me (with the exception of a local emirati) to not make the move to dubai if i am happy with my current job.

Surfa, if you are making decent money at your current job, then why would you want to make less at a company that continuously changes rules, does not respect you as an employee, and subjecates you to disciplinary action without objection. Everyone wants to roll the dice and gamble with their futures. At the end, i am not a gambler.

fb

[Wiley]

My guess? After reading Surfa's last post, despite everything he's read here, he will come.

[pool]

Fullboat 2

I turned down EK's August class offer because I'm getting married in September

Most EK pilots will think that you made one sound and another risky decision here. Up to you to guess which is which ...

I spoke with the EK hiring department and they have offered to put me in the October Airbus class if they run it

An "offer" and a "if" by EK! lol.
Not even a written contract is valued by these guys, so simply imagine what the above's worth ....

They seem to be a very agreeable sort there in HR, surprising from what I read on these boards

Agree with that. Just consider them like "spokesmen" of governements or big companies. These people are trained in rhethorics, reading prepared statements and making a presentable impression. Not a clue though about reality in the company.

It appears like you believe me to be an RJ captain in the US. Somedays I wish I were, but I'm over here in the sandbox working for a different company

If you are what you pretend, then you should definitely know better.

To all the poolies, very sorry for the pessimistic news and reports. Rants and complaints are a integral part of pilots lives, I know. What is different here, is that we are warning everybody about something that is simply unaccepatable:

Breach of contract and no legal recourse.

That makes you basically a slave, well payed, but you are at the unconditional mercy of the employer. He can pay you as he likes, fire you when he wants and freeze your assets in his country at his will.
When the industry roars, it's fine, you can leave without remorse and because they know, they treat you ok. When however the crisis hits like now, they know you run out of options and they exploit it mercilessly. You end up trapped, as most of us with kids, houses, bonds etc. end completely exposed to their arbitrary society.

[5star]

They GROUNDED another 2 pilots who were being MARSHALLED into a gate when they touched the jetty with one of their engines. They were under marshaller authority when this happened !!!

COME ON EK, what's next ???? :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I think anyone eager to join this s(t)inking ship should know it by know what he is getting himself and his family into. And don't tell us we didn't warn you.

Until morale improves, the beating will continue. :yuk: :yuk::yuk: :yuk:

[Time2go]

Quote
"Having been removed from the roster to facilitate the investigation, the crew have now returned to normal duty."

As were the crew that had a cargo fire warning a while back. The sky is not falling. Don't create a panic.:=

Isn't it normal when someone has an incident to be removed from duty pending the results of an investigation be it here or any other airline?:cool:

[what_goes_up]

Isn't it normal when someone has an incident to be removed from duty pending the results of an investigation be it here or any other airline?
completely normal IMHO. Not a big fan of EK management style and safety (fear) culture. But this is normal ops in any major airline.

[Fullboat2]

Pool, don't get me started about getting married ;0) Talk about a debacle in the making!

For the life of me I don't understand why everyone is so skeptical around here, or secretive for that matter, I am not pretending to be anyone. I'm a lowly 737 FO flying here in the ME like the rest of us. For some reason I'm hesitant to say where I fly, but suffice it to say, it is the largest chuck of sand around with by far the most oil. Of course it is also the most restrictive of the Kingdoms around too.....

Having read all this EK bashing I have to admit I'm very concerned about coming over there and no longer anticipate doing so, although if things go sideways here I may. Doubtful though.

Good luck to everyone over there at EK. I wish everyone the best!

[Oblaaspop]

Sorry Fullboat, must have been squinting and missed the bit about enquiring about a friend (although not blindingly obvious - BTW is he not capable of using a computer?). Anyway, I'll take the hit, my bad......

I must say though, they would have to pay me a darn sight more than 20% extra to work in KSA:yuk:

As another point for some of the other harbingers of doom on this esteemed forum, I completely fail to see how what EK pay, means that F/O's are on the bread line. Yes Dubai has become expensive, but if you don't have to send loads of money back home, MOST of what you earn is spending money.

Guys, instead of jumping on a bandwagon, why don't you back up your rhetoric with facts ie income vs STATUTORY outgoings like you would have in your previous life. I've stated facts and figures before, why don't others do the same??

Newbie, out of interest, I presume the $100k you were earning as a check airman back home was subject to tax? I also presume your previous employer didn't pay for your house etc? Therefore I will presume you would be financially much better off at EK? Not having a pop, but these are the sorts of things we all need to be reminded of from time to time........ (Just to be sure I stated FINANCIALLY better off, not emotionally!!)

[cosmodrift]

Thanks God people crying for facts and numbers. Thanks to "What_Goes_Up" and "Oblaaspop".

Offer alone facts against the bashing team arguments and you are believed to be an EK Manager, for Christ sake.

PS: "5star", what a stupid post regarding this incident.:=

It's bad when things change for the worse, but this is going to continue.
US carriers had their salaries lowered in agreements to prevent more jobs to be shed in more than one occasion. T&C are eroding everywhere in the world.

For those who still don't get it, and believe this happens only at EK, I suggest a good reading: The book "Who Moved My Cheese?" from "Spencer Johnson" http://ee.sharif.edu/~commi/Comm1_files/WhoMovedMyCheese.pdf (http://ee.sharif.edu/%7Ecommi/Comm1_files/WhoMovedMyCheese.pdf)

You are taking what's been promised for granted and for good. This does not apply to the modern world anymore. Does not matter how loud you yell.

[pool]

cosmo

You did it again! You're sustaining our point, brilliantly.


US carriers had their salaries lowered in agreements to prevent more jobs to be shed in more than one occasion
1. "in agreements" versus just "imposing" new conditions. To most civilised people this makes a very distinct difference.

2. "to prevent more jobs to be shed" versus the "sacking" culture developped by EK lately. You end up with less employees, but allthough you might feel fear to lose your job in both systems, the latter shoves this fear right down onto your daily work and is completely arbitrary, not even evoking safety....


For those who still don't get it, and believe this happens only at EK
We do get it, believe me. But such arguments are silly. Just because waterboarding was used in Guantanamo, it does not make it less despicable for Scotland Yard to use it as well. It's a civil right that anyone can defend himself irrespective to what happened to others.


This does not apply to the modern world anymore
Such a quote is not only fatalistic, but worse, it's cynical, because it therefore legitimates deterioration. Reminds me of Dick's hogwash in some way.

[cosmodrift]

About the mentioned "agreements" back in US, they went like this: "You all will agree with that or we'll fire you. Everybody happy?" End of agreement.

The result is the same. Don't fool yourself, pool. You are asking for lubricant.

So ridiculous to hear a grown man crying: "Oh, they don't have the right to do this to us. They are sacking us." Well, I guess they own the place and the carrier, you don't, so they do what they want. You don't like it, then get out.

I am not being fatalistic. Look around you, man. That's what is happening.

This is a political world. Even with no Union here, organized groups of pilots eventually get in touch wit the management to expose our points and diminish(not to stop) the impact of some decisions on us.

Why it is good to fly here?
The group of pilots is experienced and skilled, planes are not only good looking, but, most of all, well maintained. We fly to great places while EK takes care of most of our expenses back home. Home is Dubai while you are here and you can live pretty well even as an FO, even with children, if you don't have to send money abroad to pay old bills.
Managers are managers everywhere. To expect compassion is foolish.

Low morale is epidemic and you are spreading it more without balancing good and bad things.
My morale is far from being low and I am sorry you live in fear around here, Pool.

[sheikmyarse]

Dont Be Fooled By Some Imbecils And Stay Away From This Place,the Arshole Of The World!!!
Just Ask Yourself " Do I Want To Be Treated As An Idiot And Loose All My Rights? "
Unless You Are Desperate.. I Hope The Answer Is No!!

[Andu]

There's one of the more senior Boeing captains here who calls Emirates "The Fountain of Youth" -because every day you come to work, they treat you like a sixteen year old.

(Oh, and cosmo? My guess is your name is Brian. Either Brian M. or Brian M, one 'm' being the measurement we used to use for distance before kilometres came into general use and the other being the major river in Australia.)

[Modesh09]

Good posts ,

what just makes me wonder is the next thing and all my EK work mates would agree,

Our contracts means nothing these days and is also melting away everyday , scared to open my email these days , what will give way next.

So my question with a melting contract and the fact that if you have not done 2 years or more now, you will sit for many years to come in the right seat.Why will guys with high time and big jets want to come here? Also why would EK need to keep the req that high as you will sit right for years so even 2000 hrs will do on RJs? After 5 years or more you will have the hrs and experience, I mean experienced guys would want to take their experience elswere , where they will be looked as valueble employees.
If its for carreer progression you might be better off with Qatar as the are smaller and still growing , same as EY.

Look if you dont have a job i understand , but if you have a good one , Think twice !

I am just thinking out loud here , what is attractive to EK ? new planes and super work mates , but for the rest ?

[fatbus]

Some of the more recent negative posts are coming from FO's that have had a pleasure of the Mang Meeting . They are pissed at the fact that they now realize their upgrade in going to be alot longer than they planned 5-7 years and maybe more. This year @ 50 new hires, 30ish upgrades AB and 16 upgrades 777. plus they(all of us) are being told dont like it leave by AS.Ed.AAR and dont screw up

[sanddude]

How can they have 16 upgrades on the 777 if there are 15 777 arriving?
Its only about 30 capt,s from the AB coming ( most are already done?):bored:

[Hook]

How can they have 16 upgrades on the 777 if there are 15 777 arriving?


Simple. You'll be working harder to make up for less crew. Why do you think the overtime hours were changed?

[Chewthecrude]

Let's be honest you should only entertain coming to EK if you either have a job that is really really bad , you need big plane hours , you are redundant or you really are in a big hole for some reason or another.

It really was a great company to work for but that has changed sometime ago.

Whilst the middle management ie AS, ED & MM are reasonable men AAD will still attempt to drive this great company into the ground. If TC (who regardless of what people say as to his ability to run a great company say) were to retire then AAD would destroy this place.

If only His Highness read this & he took note we'd see a different response I believe!

[cosmodrift]

Just Ask Yourself " Do I Want To Be Treated As An Idiot And Loose All My Rights? "
Unless You Are Desperate.. I Hope The Answer Is No!!

Well, sheikmyarse just stated he is a desperate idiot. Bad news for him...

There's one of the more senior Boeing captains here who calls Emirates "The Fountain of Youth" -because every day you come to work, they treat you like a sixteen year old.


But you are acting like sixteen years old...and oh, yes I'm Brian. Whatever...

I am just thinking out loud here , what is attractive to EK ? new planes and super work mates , but for the rest ?

What rest? Free housing? Two way Audi pick up? Good accomodation for free? Zero income tax? School fees allowances? Rotating bid system? Outstanding hotels? Incredible destinations where you can find and buy things cheaper than in Dubai? Out of the chart maintenance and onboard technology? 42 days annual leave? Emirates club card and benefits? Reserved tickets for family for annual leave trips? Safe and modern city to live? Health system? WHAT REST YOU MEAN, MORON? Where in the world you find this? These things are still there.

I never said I aprove T&C erosion(Who would?), but I strongly disagree the grade attributed to EK. Specially comming from people who clearly know nothing about other companies in the world.
Used to be better I say it again, but still worth to come.
Maybe you are tired of Dubai/EK(your problem), but you can't overlook the few mentioned benefits that are still offered around here in comparison to other carriers(and I didn't mentioned carriers offering jobs).

[Andu]

...and oh, yes I'm BrianAfter that last post, except for the MORON crack, I thought it might be Helena!

[White Knight]

And don't mix the EPC up with Emirates - its by the pilots (and many thanks for their continued hard graft) for the pilots. Nothing to do with EK...

[cosmodrift]

And don't mix the EPC up with Emirates - its by the pilots (and many thanks for their continued hard graft) for the pilots. Nothing to do with EK...

Yeah. So NOTHING to do with Emirates that you had to write EPC instead of EMIRATES PILOTS CLUB, hum?
Is that possible that you are so dumb that you don't get that it's the company huge highlighted mark that allow us, pilots to maintain EPC and enjoy all its great benefits and not the other way around? Maybe we should change from EPC to ABPC(Anonimous Basher Pilots Club) and see what happens...

And once again. EPC, regardless of who runs it, is a major benefit we all have here and a very attractive point to potential new joiners, but this, my friend, you failed to stress out. On purpose.

[5star]

Someone in EK management got allocated some office time to counter the negatives on this forum... The tone in his replies is going crescendo, so I suspect they must be having a problem in HR. Pprune is the last thing we have to let people know in the real world (I consider Burundi not part) what's going on here. Cosmo, you should maybe try to liase with Eticr*p and put this forum on the blocked list.

EK used to be a good employer but that was 3-4 years ago. The crackdown on ALL crew, the deep cuts in our pay and the stalling of our benefits package (ask any non-aviation expat in Dubai what he gets and you will fall off your chair) makes EK now very AVERAGE in the industry.

For most of us, living here comes at a cost, and most of us want to see some financial award for having our famlies have to live over here. I have not forgotten that where I come from medical is TOP and almost free, education is top and cheap and people have good state pensions.

If you have no job, sure you should have a look around here. But do read the numereous ME forum posts.

Especially those who have a happy family and a decent job might think twice before they sail over. There is not a single guy I flew with the last 8 months who said he was pleased with the direction our company is taking. And the fear factor which our management threw in last 3 months did NOT help either. Sacking an FO who was doing his training, that was a nice one EK, you should be proud of yourselves.

Morale is at an all time low. And if we make losses the coming months get ready for some more lashes.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

BM aka Cosmo. You really are an ass aren't you :yuk: The EMIRATES Pilots Club, only has association by name, it has the square root of FA to do with the company. Its run by the PILOTS for the PILOTS.

How much extra do EK pay you to be their whipping boy???

EK used to be pretty good when I joined Habibi, but now is just another job.

SyB :zzz:

[BigGeordie]

What rest? Free housing? Two way Audi pick up? Good accomodation for free? Zero income tax? School fees allowances? Rotating bid system? Outstanding hotels? Incredible destinations where you can find and buy things cheaper than in Dubai? Out of the chart maintenance and onboard technology? 42 days annual leave? Emirates club card and benefits? Reserved tickets for family for annual leave trips? Safe and modern city to live? Health system? WHAT REST YOU MEAN, MORON? Where in the world you find this? These things are still there.


These thing are still there but as ever, the devil is in the details. The housing situation of late is worthy of a thread in itself. It isn't free- if you move out you used to get a utilities allowance of (for an F/O) about 150,000Dhs a year- that is what your accommodation is really costing you. Which is a lot to pay for a two bedroom apartment in Al Barsha. Now, you don't have the option of moving out so you are stuck with the accommodation you are given until you upgrade.

The Audi pick up and drop off is great- but it also gets you to work about 45 minutes before your day legally starts. That is 45 minutes of your time the company is getting for nothing, and it makes a mockery of the FTL rules.

There is no income tax, but there are plenty of hidden, and not so hidden, taxes in Dubai.

The school fee allowance only covers a maximum of 90% of your school fees, not including any out of school activities. The allowance didn't go up this year, but the school fees did. By about 12%.

The rotating bid system would work well if it was left alone but ask anybody about manual insertions before and after leave or in the middle of blocks of days off. It has happened to me too often to be coincidence.

Hotels- most are good, some are terrible. Not many are outstanding. Yes, you can buy thing on layovers cheaper than in Dubai, which just goes to show how expensive Dubai is now, tax free or not.

Engineering are now as over worked as any other department, although they do an amazing job with what they have available.

42 days annual leave, but only if you can take it. A limited maximum number of days off in any one block, so you can't take it all at once, but still only one annual leave ticket a year. And the company has recently taken to deciding that "America" is one destination so if you don't live near an online destination you pay for your own domestic flights.

The health care from the clinic remains, mercifully, good but remember you pay for the health insurance of your dependants by salary deduction and there is no way out of this, even if your wife has health cover through her own job.

The EPC has nothing to do with the company so I won't even go there.

Not one of the things Cosmo has mentioned has improved in the last five years. There is a definite trend emerging.

[cosmodrift]

BigGeordie, thanks for engaging in a debate. Item by item. The goal here is to provide more realistic information for the new joiners, putting differents points of view on the table.

ima birdbrain, learn from that. You don't have arguments, stay out.

Sheikh Your Bootie and 5star, lets assume then, I work for the management, I am Brian or Helena, whatever. This forum is the perfect place to debate arguments, facts and numbers. If good things that are still present do not satisfy you anymore, that's your problem.

5star
ask any non-aviation expat in Dubai what he gets and you will fall off your chair
Most of them have been fired and had to run away. And just to remind you. You are a driver.
makes EK now very AVERAGE in the industry.

AVERAGE? You certainly don't mean aviation industry, otherwise name the companies providing similar packages right now. And also companies with similar packages that are hiring. And also companies that don't have management problems. This is bollocks...
I have not forgotten that where I come from medical is TOP and almost free, education is top and cheap and people have good state pensions.
But probably you forgot why you came here and why you are still here.
Especially those who have a happy family and a decent job might think twice before they sail over. Yes, of course, smartest thing you said. Pretty obvious, though.

But I wonder. When you get togheter with crews of other international airlines in pubs and bars around the world you feel like you are the underdogs? I don't think so...

[cosmodrift]

There's no need to lie, specially in an annonimous forum, and I never said you are lying about your complains. I complain also. Things been better for sure. I've talked about this negative trend already. It's happening everywhere, but everywhere else is sinking faster. Do not compare EK with something you can't have anymore.

But lets be realistics. These items, are not present in most companies in the world. Even now. And we are in the middle of a major crisis. Comon, you still have a sound job, above the average.

Check this out:
ATW Daily News (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=16878)

[HundredPercentPlease]

And just to remind you. You are a driver.

I was thinking of applying.

Don't think I'll bother now. To be honest the massive pay cut I'd have to take sealed the decision. Shame - wouldn't have minded the jump.

[White Knight]

Cosmo - here's hoping I don't have to fly with a prick like YOU:ugh: But if we do then good luck to you little fellah...

[Obbie]

Does anyone have any factual info as to where they are in the process.

Have they finished sending out invites ?
Have the final spots been assigned and accepted yet ?

When can the rest of us expect an official final word from HR ?

[cosmodrift]

Cosmo - here's hoping I don't have to fly with a prick like YOU:ugh: But if we do then good luck to you little fellah...

Sorry I called you dumb. My bad. Actually you were not agressive in your post. I am taking some hard hits on defending a point.

[Kenny]

Obbie,

Try to log onto to the EK careers website. Until about 4 days ago I could and it said my status was "Joiner". Now it doesn't recognize my file application number or email address. May not be anything sinister but I'm starting to think I've been flushed.

[Obbie]

I told it I forgot my password.
My email is still recognized.
It sent me a password.
But the password it sent won't get me in.

It use to say you are under evaluation, and can not modify.
But that was the old web site. Never tried on the new one before.

[5star]

Cosmo's not really familiar with headwind is he. He sets a pretty nasty tone for a guy with a short history...He should get a job as a reporter for GNews. Everything beautiful, everybody happy....same cr@p there. Crisis? Where crisis? Anything but the truth...

On second thought : Give the guy a break, he can't help it. Pretty sure he's never worked for another company.
Or is it really you BM? maybe AR?

[aapa]

hi folks

just wondering wether any one has been sent the dear john letter or when is the cut off time for those who dont hear

info appreciated..

[White Knight]

Cosmo - apology accepted!

[asiasky]

Going back to the topic, as a pooler since one year ago, I would appreciate if someone of you have any information regarding in which situation will rest the people, like me, haven't been offered a class for the august or september courses. On top of that, I have not been informed from EK I am out of the selection process or even the hold pool. Could we expect this confirmation from HR? Any comment will be really wellcome.

[cosmodrift]

Everything beautiful, everybody happy....same cr@p there. Crisis? Where crisis? Anything but the truth...
Either you haven't read my posts or you have a relevant English interpretation problem. I guess the second option...

Pretty sure he's never worked for another company.
Or is it really you BM? maybe AR?
Give up trying to figure who I am. That's pathetic and worthless. Stick to facts and numbers if you can or just stay out.

[Mr.Shaft]

The selection is DONE!!!! If you haven't heard as of yet, no chance of further class allocation. These people are classless, we went through the process and hung out for almost one year and they tell me to re-apply, they can kiss my shieks a$$.

[Obbie]

Did you talk to HR Mr. Shaft ?

Nothing in the mail box this morning.

[Bluenoser]

Anyone considering coming to this place at this time would be nuts!! If you didn't get called out of the pool PLEASE count yourself lucky. I know that it is human nature to want to be chosen and that it is disappointing not to be; however in this csae they are doing you a favour! You will be saved from the aggravation and disappointment of this third world place! I've been here 3 years now and in the last 6 months have never, throughout my carrer, witnessed such a rapid cascade of negativity and moral busting changes in regards to terms and conditions. Emirates is lawless and have no regard to the human aspect of the employee.
This is fair warning and please consider that I view myself as a proffessional that has always looked at the glass as "Half Full".
Just don't risk it!!

[Kep Ten Jim]

You view yourself as a 'proffessional'? How do you view yourself as a professional when you can't even spell the word?

[White Sausage]

Well, Mr. Teacher, maybe English isn´t his first language? How about you speaking another language without any mistakes? What an arrogant tw:mad:t you are sir!

[Mr.Shaft]

kep tin tin.....you sound like a mean little less man........try your hardest, for most easier than tin tin, to understand the context....I'm out!!!!!!

[Dune]

To all poolies,

Check out the latest changes to command upgrades at Ek.......and count your lucky stars if you have not been selected.

For those that have been "selected".........and have agreed to come.........last chance to change you mind and retain some degree of a professional career. You have been forewarned.

[cosmodrift]

Being a driver for 5 airlines, and seen 2 of then going out of the business with all the social commotion that comes along a tragedy like this, I can only say that people like Dune and Bluesoner(among others) are hysteric kids.

Fact: There are more pilots in the world than jobs available. To expect all this wailing would stop EK from filling the courses with new pilots is at least immature. EK is still looked as a reference even after all the T&C degradation. This is normal, because when you look for a job, you compare it to other jobs.

In the other hand, disrespect for us is one of the major complains around here. What to say about calling a new joiner, a new partner who balanced his options "crazy", "nuts"?

Spelling is Bluesoner's smallest problem.

[mensaboy]

Nice work Cosmo,

You wrote 8 sentences and managed to make 6 grammatical or spelling errors and 5 content or sentence structure errors. If your first language is not english, then forgive me, but otherwise you might want to take the time to review and then edit your posts.

It's just a suggestion, which might improve the odds of other people taking your viewpoints seriously.

[cosmodrift]

I forgive you, Mensaboy.

[CAVnotOK]

So, i'd like to know what the guys from the hold pool, who still have the choice whether or not to join are thinking regards to EK's latest and greatest policy???

[fatbus]

65% growth between now and 2018( not a double), that does not upgrade those that are at EK already

@ 700 upgrades 1100 capt now = 1800 call it 1900 with some movement, 2300 pilots right now, sorry but thats the math.

If you still come to EK dont start whinging the day you get to the line

[cosmodrift]

Those willing to come will have to balance and explore the positive side of being a First Officer for a long time. That are good things about it, of course. The money could be still good depending on your standards and could be higher than many countries are paying to a captain.
I would not maintain any expectation to upgrade right now, because that would lead only to frustrations.

[kashima]

So, realistically what would you propose as a realistic expectation for upgrading on 777 and Airbus?

[cosmodrift]

So, realistically what would you propose as a realistic expectation for upgrading on 777 and Airbus?
Well, Kashima, I don't know. Fatbus gave a rough idea I couldn't say it looks far from what to expect.

To come here, depending on your current situation(no job, bad job, really underpaid), is an upgrade already. It's a safe job. It may take a while as an FO, but you have a career, a number and still good benefits. Many I know are been fired from Asian companies after their contracts are expired, no matter they are excellent pilots and have a family to support.

It's true there's a DEC problem here, what sucks for an FO, but it's also true that many pilots leave when situation becomes better at home.

Anyway, upgrade time is not a good point at EK at this time.

[cosmodrift]

Command Upgrade

The Company criteria for command upgrade are as follows:
• A minimum of 36 months in Emirates.
• 6,000 hours total time.
• 4,000 hard hours.
• 12 months on type from the commencement of line training.
• Satisfactory completion of the Command Assessment Program.
• Command opportunities are offered to First Officers who meet the above requirements and have achieved satisfactory performance reviews.

Please note that 36 months is the minimum time to command. With expected delays in aircraft demands and changing demands from Fleet, the time to command is expected to be over three years.

[CAVnotOK]

Given the fact that Emirates will need somewhere in the region of 700 Captains between now and 2018, provided there are no further delays or cancelations of aircraft orders. Also provided there are NO more DEC's (yeah right).

If NO more F/O's were hired between now and 2018, there would still be 4-500 F/O's who are on the current seniority list waiting for upgrade to Captain in roughly 10 years from now.

Based on these numbers, any F/O joining EK now will likely be waiting 15 years. 15 years based on the company expanding as planned and no further world economic crisis, flu pandemic, terrorism, war etc, etc.

With all of the current contract and COS degradations the package is no longer good enough to spend this amount of time in the right seat living in a third/fourth world country.

The biggest drawcard of Emirates has, and will always be a "first officer fast tracking his career". Another drawcard which no longer exists.

There are other opportunities around.

[5star]

He should read the cr@p in the FCI again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He intentionally didn't mention the most important one : minimum 3000 hrs hard time on EK TYPE. For guys with only <55T time: they will need 4000 hrs hard time on EK type. Not in the bunk, not in the sim but stick time on the T7 or 330(340).

[CAVnotOK]

When has cosmodrift got it right??

[cosmodrift]

I think I have made very clear (for those who aren't retarded like you) upgrades at EK are to take a very long time right now.
Why don't you read the previous posts before open this big mouth of yours? :=
PS: Same applies to your new boyfriend above.

[CAVnotOK]

Guess the truth hurts eh Cosmo?

A large percentage of your posts has suggested that EK is the best place in the world to come. Sorry, but you seem to be the only one to share that view.

You are clearly in a world of your own, and either can't accept the truth of what's going on here, or the sad reality of your life to this point is that EK is the best thing you have experienced.

Overall you sound like a very sad little man, or woman from HR.

[EGGW]

Guys, please cut down the personal attacks. If you disagree fine, but less of the personal stuff, no matter how much you dislike a poster. :ugh::ugh:

EGGW

[cosmodrift]

Guess the truth hurts eh Cosmo?
For some, maybe.

A large percentage of your posts has suggested that EK is the best place in the world to come.
The posts are there to review. There you are going to find good and bad things I mentioned about EK. If after reading them this is the label you got for me, so you interpretation is lame, what makes me doubt of other arguments you may bring to this discussion.

Sorry, but you seem to be the only one to share that view.

If I am the only one, I am not sharing, am I? I do not represent no group. I stick to facts and have no problems on revising my statements if needed.

You are clearly in a world of your own
Thanks God I am. And I am very happy I am not in yours.

Overall you sound like a very sad little man, or woman from HR
Of course I do. I am Brian, or should be Helena? And if I am, I make more money than you, I have more power than you and I am having a great time messing with you right now. So, who is the envy sad little man after all?

[skyvan]

For anyone coming in now as a DEC, I hope that you check out the requirements as they are now, and meet them. .

These requirements now are:-
1) A minimum of 10,000 hours Total Time prior to joining Emirates.
��
2) A minimum of 4,000 hours Hard Time.
��
3) A minimum of 3,000 hours Command Experience on EK aircraft type or minimum of 1,500 hours on EK aircraft type and 1,500 on a commercial aircraft with MTOW greater than 55 tonne, and current within 12 months before joining Emirates and holding a valid type and instrument rating.
��
4) Preference will be given to type rated A330/A340/A380 or B777 & instructors.
��
5) Valid ICAO ATPL.
��
6) Must join before 56th birthday.

The above is posted merely for information. I don't know if they will hold you to it if you already have an offer, but I would make very sure that the rug is not pulled out from under your feet when you get here.

[azamat69]

Hey guys for your info,

Was told today at the first officer meeting that there are 16 aircraft deliveries this financial year, 36 command upgrades this financial year, as of the next financial year ie.2010-2011..NO UPGRADES and NO DELIVERIES!!

Just wanted to share that for those thinking of making the hop over!!

[Immigrant]

Consider this too:*

......
Clark said he sees EK operating around 163 aircraft in three years, "and we have to consider the 58 aircraft we have to retire, including the A330-200, A340-300 and 777-200/-300 classics."

[cosmodrift]

Considering this tread is for the poolies, and obviously the poolies are looking for a new job, maybe these questions apply:

How long it would take to become a Captain if someone joins, for example, American Airlines today? Or United? Or BA?
And in which aircraft would you be promoted?

Lots of white heads on the right seat over there, as I recall.

If you are coming, forget about upgrade in the short term. That's not a selling point now. However, in a long term...

Remember few companies, in a restricted hiring universe, offers you a career, a number. Many hire for a pre-established contract which means they hire an FO to do an FO job until they let you go. Or, there are many others that make you believe they are going to promote you and when the time come, they don't. Not mentioning companies that are making efforts to get rid of all expats.

EK is the company that upgraded more expatriated pilots ever. PERIOD.
To blame the company now because the waiting will be much longer, ignoring everything that is going on in the aviation industry nowadays is to be, to say the minimum, unfair or selfish.

[Saltaire]

Cosmo, EK has obviously worked for you and we can all hear it. But the notion of comparing EK to AA or United, BA is just not a fair comparison and it drives me when i hear it. Do AA, United or BA hire Direct Entry Captains like yourself ? Not a chance.

Do they provide law's safeguarding us here, a sense of community, is there any heart to this place? Can you feel the love next time you drive down SZR? People come here for an accelerated program for faster career progression and extra compensation for the sacrifice. And we deserve every last dollar and more...believe it !

So why would people come now? What is the selling point? Job security I guess only because the rest of the world is in a tight spot. I came for a quick upgrade along with about 2000 other pilots in the last 15 years. If the rules have changed then the decision is different.

I don't regret coming and am happy with my decision but let's not glorify the story. Many people in the right seat would be more than happy staying where they are living in a free society, trusting others, backed by laws, living in cleaner air, and not having to watch their back at every decision.

[cosmodrift]

But the notion of comparing EK to AA or United, BA is just not a fair comparison...
I am not a shrink or a DEC and the matter explored was time to promotion. Just time to promotion. So, in this particular matter, the comparison applies.

People come here for an accelerated program for faster career progression and extra compensation for the sacrifice.
Give me a break. You are here because you have not a better option, or you are too coward to sell groceries back home. Don't blame the environment for your own decisions. Beside, you don't say "People do...". Speak for yourself.

Do they provide law's safeguarding us here, a sense of community, is there any heart to this place? Can you feel the love next time you drive down SZR?
I'm going to be sick after this one.:ooh:

So why would people come now? What is the selling point? Job security I guess only because the rest of the world is in a tight spot.
You answered your own question. That might be one obvious reason.
Other people can also find a good life here, specially if you don't get yourself 100% fixed on the bad side. Anyway all of us are here because we are volunteers. Nobody is pointing you no gun to stay.

Many people in the right seat would be more than happy staying where they are living in a free society, trusting others, backed by laws, living in cleaner air, and not having to watch their back at every decision.
Man, I have no clue what part of the world(or time in history) retaining all these qualities you are referring to. But I believe you think all the poolies come from that beautiful place and they have great jobs there.

[Saltaire]

You seem to be lost in your own little shisha world. Why don't you compare expat airlines to expat airlines, so your arguement is relevant. We are still 30% short of CX in pay and benefits, and that's B scale. How many mainline AA, BA, UAL pilots do we have here? Anybody, anybody? Nope, didn't think so...wait a minute, maybe a couple DEC's on the double dip, good for them.

People are here because they had no better option or thought it might be a good opportunity for a quick command and a good experience. Fair enough, and most of us try to make the best of it but don't try to sell this place like some kind of windfall best job in the world. Aviation as a whole is in trouble, and this is currently a good place to hid. If it ever comes back in a positive way, we'll see how many of us stick around. This place could give a rats A@@ about any of us....including you.

[Saltaire]

I get it now, you are one of those from a crappy Asian airline as an FO where you couldn't look up without permission. No wonder you love this place so much. And if others are in the same position, then I guess it is a much better opportunity. To each his own.

[Jet II]

Many people in the right seat would be more than happy staying where they are living in a free society, trusting others, backed by laws, living in cleaner air, and not having to watch their back at every decision.

If they are that unhappy then perhaps they should leave - nobody is pointing a gun at you to make you stay.

Many people enjoy the lifestyle here in the UAE but it isn't for everyone. If you dislike hot weather and sand and want democracy, human rights, green fields and walks though country meadows then you really do have to ask yourself why they moved to a city in the middle of the desert in the first place. :ugh:

Life's too short to sit whinging on PPrune - if it isn't working out for whatever reason then move on and do something different - there are jobs out there and even if it means you end up bush flying in Alaska without all the free accommodation, cheap travel etc. at least you will be a happy.

[kiwi]

Jet II, you are conveniently forgetting that this company does like to enforce the bits of the contract that suit them i.e. the training bond.
Also the setup costs when first moving here is not inconsiderable. To walk away owing money at a time when there are few oportunities isn't a luxury many can afford in this environment.
The issue for these people, I believe, is that they left jobs to come here believing certain things that they were told through the recruitment process and now having left the job they had, find they are literally stuck.
It not as simple as "if you don't like it leave", that some like to trot out.

[cosmodrift]

...the matter explored was time to promotion. Just time to promotion. So, in this particular matter, the comparison applies.
Once again because you are slow Saltaire.

We are still 30% short of CX in pay and benefits, and that's B scale.
Man, you see what I mean? You are comparing EK with CX, a top top contender. That is not only valid, but also states we can't put EK benefits as average in the market.

I get it now, you are one of those from a crappy Asian airline as an FO where you couldn't look up without permission.
As I said, you are slow. You figured something said way before. This is part of my experience, yes.

No wonder you love this place so much.
The place fits my needs now. That's it.

It not as simple as "if you don't like it leave", that some like to trot out.
Training bond holds no one that needs or wants to go. How many left when things got better in their home countries? How many paid anything?
Beside, company changes the contract, company gives you an excuse to leave. So leave...

[pilot_guy1]

Hi Jet II,

Mate, i think your post/ reply to all the bitching sums the entire topic just perfect.
Infact .... its simply Brilliant and correctly said in just a few words.

Im just a poolie waiting for the call from EK in the near future.
keeping my fingers crossed for a call by the end of this year.

Regards
:ok:

[Obbie]

Fellow Poolie.........

If you did not recieve a email invite for a course a couple of
weeks ago, then it is all over. You can expect a "You have expired"
email at some point in the future.

Back to square one, and reapply if you are still interested.

Boy do I ever "Keep Discovering" when it comes to this company.:mad:

[gecko21]

Hi folks,
Cavnotok said:

There are other opportunities around.

I'll really appreciate any suggestions.
My company went bankrupt last year and all I could find is flying wet lease in KSA. 30 days on, 10 days off.
They pay me 4000 euro a month, no insurance, 1 year contract, maybe 3 but not sure. They also arrange a flt within the saudi network to go back Europe. That's it.
I'm a first officer 9000 flt hrs 5500 hard time, 3500 military.
I can imagine EK is not what it used to be but the other opportunities around are not that good.
EK has just told me I'm a brand new poolie, am I lucky? My family is excited thinking about the possible new experience, do you guys have any suggestions?

[gecko21]

My interview was on feb2009. I know there are more than 100 ahead of me waiting.......They just said you may be called by Feb 2010,after 1 year you will have to re-apply.

I'm just trying to understand if EK has became a real nightmare or if it's just worst than it used to be. If someone think that there are better opportunities somewhere just let me know, I'm going to apply right now.
Of course I mean real opportunities not dreams like LH-AF-BA etc etc
Thanks for any suggestions.

[takisdro]

Gecko,I was interviewed April last year and I was a poolie ever since.Now they did call people for hiring,they didn't call me and they didn't tell me I am out,either.As far as I know there are plenty like me and the biggest mistake was that I told my family,as well.I shouldn't.Let it happen first and then consider.I know Dubai well,first time I was there was five years ago and it was cheap,last time was six months ago and it was expensive,which made me happy that they gave a solution for me on what to do.Still if your job sucks then go for it but meanwhile keep searching,so you don't end up waiting with no results.
Wish you luck.

[gecko21]

Thank you Takisdro, all the best to you too.

[fjordviking]

Have you looked into maybe switching into the bizjet world?
I know the likes of Jet Republic are hiring at the moment. you will need
the right to live and work in Europe though.

Other bizjet jobs are available even in these trying times, but you need to know the right people.

Fjordviking

[cochise]

I just can't fathom how an interview with a company can "expire". If a candidate had what it takes to make it the first time, why should they have to go through the process a second time? It is such a shame that the HR people do not have to go through a similar screening when it comes to their pencil pushing jobs. Then maybe they'd understand the stress of an interview, the continued trial of wading in a holding pool and finally being told that you have to reapply again and go through the whole experience just to prove that you still "have what it takes" :ugh:

[fatbus]

They put alot of emphasis on the phych eval and claim it is only valid for 12 months

[gecko21]

Hi guys,
just a curiosity, if you have the chance (which I doubt) where would you like to fly in Emirates? Boeing or Airbus?

In matter of:

Careers opportunity: I know that a new joiner doesn't have any, but in the long term, considering the A380/A350 or the 777 fleet completition

Quality of life: Days off or fatigue after a turnaround

Type rating: chances to find a job when/if you leave DXB.

Thank you for any reply

[Flaite]

I accepted a 777 offer for mid august... im resigning on friday :uhoh:.
One quick question, which bank is better? HSBC or the local one? I will need to send some cash back home.
Thanks.

[xkred27]

They obviously don't do the psych. test anymore. Because any normal
person wouldn't come here.

[Trader]

HSBC!!! Though if I choose lloyds which offer EK pilot one free transfer a month or 100dmns $20 for each one after.

Better rep than HSBC as well.

[Saltaire]

No clear winner I don't think...HSBC is good in that many ATM's and on line banking is quite good. One free wire transfer per month as well. I would recommend opening the account at the Jebel Ali branch, going to Deira, the other main branch is a nightmare.

Ta

[fatbus]

Do keep in mind that HSBC in Dubai is a middle east bank it only shares the name with HSBC. Not a big deal. I think the only bank that is not a Mid East bank is Lloyd's. Mashreq is ok as well and has a deal with EPC.

[The Darkness]

Well, it's clear that I won't have to be making a decision on banks in Dubai. Not taken out of the holding pool.

Anyone know when we'll be sent the "official" word of "thanks but not this time"?

The Darkness

[kkeehh31]

EK email this morning

Over the past few weeks we have been offering course dates to some of the candidates in the ‘hold pool’ to fill courses that have been confirmed for August and September this year. These course allocations have now been finalised. At this stage we do not have any further courses confirmed for the remainder of the calendar year. By the end of this year, those of you that attended our selection process in June 2008 or earlier will have been in the ‘hold pool’ for longer than 18 months. As 18 months is the maximum validity period for candidates to remain in our ‘hold pool’ we would therefore no longer be able to keep your file active for consideration against future courses. This is due to the possibility that a candidate’s flying and personal circumstances may have changed over this time frame and the requirement we have to validate again a candidate’s continued suitability for employment.
We are therefore now in a position where, if we do not confirm any more course dates this calendar year, we would need to invite candidates who pass beyond the 18 month time period back to Dubai to complete our selection process again. We therefore request you to respond to us please over the next two weeks if you would like to be considered for re-inviting back for the selection process in Dubai in order to remain valid in our ‘hold pool’. Some things we would like you to consider in making this decision are listed below:
• We may, depending on your previous assessments through our process, modify or reduce certain stages of the selection programme that you would be required to do in Dubai.
• Even though you have been successful in the past in our selection process, this does not automatically guarantee that you will be successful again.
• Due to the current economic situation and our need to contain costs as much as we can to ensure the continued success of our Airline, you would be responsible for arranging and funding your own flights to Dubai to attend our selection process. We would provide you with hotel accommodation and meals whilst here as per your first assessment process.
• If you are successful, you will again be placed in our ‘hold pool’ from which we will continue to draw candidates to allocate to courses as they become confirmed. Your status in our ‘hold pool’ would then be valid for a further period of 12 – 18 months.
• It is important to keep in mind that Emirates still has many new aircraft arriving as part of our ongoing expansion plans, including up to 20 new wide-bodied jets in the next 12 months. Therefore our requirement for pilots going forward will be significant. For this reason we do hope you will remain interested in Emirates and we are very mindful that you have been patient, which we thank you for.
Please note that for the foreseeable future we do not anticipate the need to be employing DEC's and therefore if you continue to be interested in a position with Emirates, you would need to be applying as an FO. In addition we have also been advised by Fleet to a change to our minimum requirements for direct entry FO's. All FO's must now have jet experience on a multi-engine Jet with a MTOW of over 55 Tonne. Based on this new minimum criteria we will not be considering further candidates with experience on smaller aircraft types. This also means we will no longer be considering those candidates already in our hold pool who fall short of the new minimum experience criteria.
We will be sending you an email on Monday following this update, asking you to respond to us in regards to confirming your interest in being considered further.

[Alvord]

kkeehh31,

You beat me to it.
Hah
After being hung out to dry like the employee # that I am for over a year by these salad tossing camel fuc$ers, I would like to thank all those who shed light on the situation at Emirates. You have made my decision final and the 'thanks but no thanks letter iced the cake.' I wish all pilots and families at Emirates the very best and I hope a better opportunity comes your way soon. Life is too short to work for a$$holes.

I considered Emirates a good place to work for awhile before interviewing and after. But when they make 400+ million and already start to toss the contract aside, I could only imagine what it would be like if they lost money. They might handcuff you to the plane. I pitty those who continue to degrade the aviation world by taking the opportunity to work under poorer and poorer conditions for less and less. Once you lower the bar it will be darn hard to raise anywhere near what it used to be. DEC's you especially. :=

I wish all pilots and families at Emirates the very best and I hope a better opportunity comes your way soon. Life is too short to work for a$$holes. I am now off to the river to enjoy a sunny warm day with the wife and dog.

Later
Alvord

[Flaite]

Thanks for all the answers guys :ok:
I really hope you are wrong mensaboy. There are worse, much worse airlines than Emirates in almost every sense and thats my case, so good or not...Dubai, here I come! :}

[mensaboy]

I hope I am wrong too and if so, will gladly admit it. Time will tell.

All the best to you and every other pilot who comes here. (I'm being sincere in case anyone is wondering)

[forum newbie]

To the staff of EK that tossed people's careers and lives for 18 months, i sincerely hope that you are happy with your decisions.

I made up my mind a few months ago but had many friends who studied for the interview, took time off, made the trip with their wife and kids, did well in the interview, went back home and waited, got the offer letter and told to wait, waited, waited, and waited,...and then told that they were not selected. I sincerely hope that noone from hr had to go through the ups and downs of so many that not only told their families about their career progression, but now has to re-explain why they are no longer qualified.

People like cosmo will come on these boards and tell you how wonderful ek is, but the fact remains...ek will sell a pilot downstream in order to save that extra dirham. This pool ordeal is a microcosm of the value that ek would have placed on you as a pilot. For you poolies, this is a blessing in disguise. Imagine the ordeal of the last 18 months and then foresee how much ek would have valued you when you signed on the dotted line.

I feel bad for you poolies but the economy will pick up, hiring will continue, and you will atleast have individual rights, christmas with the family, and an employer that will be defined by rules and a contract.

Something has to be said when 90% of the pilots that work for an airline tell you to not join. No amount of money or villa can replace the degrading treatment of a professional. Best of luck to those who join and i sincerely hope that you are treated fairly.

fb

[nolimitholdem]

I do hope that prospective joiners will note both the impassioned warnings from present EK pilots and also the sincerity of the well-wishes if you do choose to disregard the multiple warnings.

The statement that there are "much, much worse airlines than Emirates" can only come from one who is not working here. Think of this for a second...there are more than a few who have worked both for seemingly every bottom-feeder out there before Emirates. Why then are even those pilots trying to warn people away? How bad does it have to be before working for this outfit seem desirable? It's all about perception I suppose. If your life is truly in danger at your present gig due to people shooting at you or horrendous maintenance, I can see the appeal. But for 99% of those with CV's on file at EK...it WILL be a step backwards. In time - a few hundred years. In mentality. In lack of basic human civility. This place is a moral, human rights, environmental, industrial relations cesspool. If you can swallow hard and accept that, fine. But there's more to adjusting to life in the Middle East than the heat.

Good luck to all!

[Badhorsey]

Forum Newbie said
......"I made up my mind a few months ago but had many friends who studied for the interview, took time off, made the trip with their wife and kids, did well in the interview, went back home and waited, got the offer letter and told to wait, waited, waited, and waited,...and then told that they were not selected. I sincerely hope that noone from hr had to go through the ups and downs of so many that not only told their families about their career progression, but now has to re-explain why they are no longer qualified."

Very well put FN, That is exactly how it's been with my family. It was very difficult telling my young children they wouldn't be going to have the fantastic adventure I'd promised them in Dubai, it's also very humiliating having to answer the "I thought you were going to Emirates " statement. Some people of course were delighted at my apparent failure.

I know of several fellow Poolies that did not receive the EK re-apply email yesterday, so they are still going through this.

[Flaite]

Thanks for all the advice guys, dont think I dont appreciate them and Im not ignoring the warnings, but I stand to what I said and here are the facts:
I make $56000 a year after taxes and I have to pay for everything including housing, education and medical which are all the most expensive in the region.
Benefits?...yeah, I have a 10% discount at the gym. Im treated like a number, cant choose my roster and it can be almost completely modified, so no much planing in your personal life here. In our off days, we get "invited" to meetings with management, classes of diferent sort or even called to fly because "theres no one else". Although its illegal, I couldnt take a single day of vacation in more than 2 years and then, all of a sudden, they forced me to take 15 days and I couldnt even choose the date! -"after this flight, your on vacation"-
The city is one of the most contaminated ones in the world, Im afraid of living in a house because crime runs rampant here, so we had to rent an apartment with private security... oh, did I mention that I was "indefinitely unfit for command" because I was in EKs successful pool?...yes, those were their exact words.
So my friends, you are not at the bottom of the food chain. The third world is big and has many faces.

[Mr.Shaft]

EK pilots who complain, dammit adjust!!!!! I will trade your position any time!!!!! Fire on!!!

[Kep Ten Jim]

Flaite - well done on your success with EK. The people on this website who try to warn everyone against joining constitute probably .01% of the pilot workforce. In EK you will be getting good training and flying shiny new aircraft. Dubai itself is 'different' but I do know a lot of people happy as pigs there.

Enjoy your new job!

[tbaylx]

The conditions at EK aren't bad comapred to alot of other places..what has stung lately is the large number of changes for the worse that have been implemented in the last 6 months.

The real issue is one of security...the way EK runs the show here you never know when you'll find yourself fired..could be for something minor that they just don't like and they happen to have a surplus of pilots at the moment and want to make an example, maybe in your first 6 months during training..maybe just after your kid starts school, or maybe just after your wife is pregnant...never know. Then you find yourself and your family a long way from home and trying to figure out what happens next. It's the sense of permanence that is lacking badly.

[williewalsh]

Avlord wrote

"DEC's you especially."

You didnt even get the job and your on the bandwagon.

Youve got it all wrong.

Emirates screwed you. The decs would have been three years from now. Dont jump the gun:ok:

[Mr.Shaft]

Anyone receive "EK update status" from HR?

[Mr.Shaft]

I received an email from HR stating if I'm still interested to respond with an update so my application will stay active.

[pia pium]

Only 60 forecast new hires over the next year, many widebody applicants around and will be first choice as many already type rated.

Don't hold your breath on this one, get looking elsewhere unless EK aircraft type rated.

Good Luck

Pia

[Mr.Shaft]

Sorry to repeat a question.........did anyone in the pool receive a letter from EK to update status?

[Fubaliera]

I did and i wish they would just go away instead of playing with us over a year.

[Pool Paddler]

Yes I did, not updating and no more waiting!!! :yuk:

EK can find another fly boy to bend over, think I'll go back to fixing toilets, pays better and you get far less SH1T! :}

Best of luck to you all. :ok:

PP -out!!! :)

[IDbackcountry]

Yes, I did. Also got a letter last week telling me if I'd like to continue in the pool I would have to come back on my own dime and reinterview. I turned it down. What did you do, Shaft? Others?

[forum newbie]

I did not get a letter. I think they know who i am but i could care less. After everything that emirates put the poolies through, now they are offering a second interview!!!

Wait, it gets better...emirates is going to reinterview you but you have to pay your own way now. How cheap can this company get?

Let this be a blessing in disguise gents, you just saved your marriage and heaps of anxiety.

fb

[White Sausage]

Well, we all told´ya...but you boys didn´t wanna listen to us guys with the insight :ugh:

[takisdro]

End of story?

[Wiley]

forum newbie, applicants always had to pay their own way to interviews with EK until a (very) few years ago when the applicants, to put it simply, stopped applying.

Now that there's a glut of pilots on the market again, they've very quickly reverted to their old system of never spending a Dirham that doesn't need to be spent. At the risk of causing enormous offence to some, I'd say the second interview requirement is mute testimony to the fact that with the current glut of applicants in the market, EK has also been able to revert to interviewing applicants with the experience levels they traditionally took until a very few years ago.

It's an indisputable fact that over the last few years, thanks to the then dearth of suitably experienced pilots on the market, EK was forced to take on pilots - both FOs and DECs - who before then wouldn't have even been picked for an initial interview.

I'm not discussing ability here, but simply previous experience.

The big question is - with the new 'lean and mean/slash and burn' approach to pilots that the EK mnagement has adopted over the last 12 months, even in the current terrible worldwide economic situation, whether they'll be able to attract sufficient numbers of those more experienced pilots? My guess is that they will, because despite all the warnings from those already slaving at the coalface, pilots looking for a job traditionally hear only what they want hear and don't start bitching until after they've got their own feet firmly placed under the table.

[menard]

If you guys applying at EK are frustrated with the way you are treated by recruitment (i.e. Waiting for months, no updates, no answer, constant changes, pay or not your ticket.......).

This is just a taste.

WAIT until you get here!!!!!

[MTOW]

I think Wiley's got the situation pegged to a 't'.My guess is that they will, (have no trouble filling the spots), because despite all the warnings from those already slaving at the coalface, pilots looking for a job traditionally hear only what they want hear and don't start bitching until after they've got their own feet firmly placed under the table.And as others have said before me, bitch you will.

[cosmodrift]

People like cosmo will come on these boards and tell you how wonderful ek is

It sucks to come back against a flat lie like that. You can review every post you'll never find a line I wrote stating this.

In the other hand, you'll find out I told things would be worse, and they are.

All the comments were in relation to other airlines. T&C degrading everywhere.

So, stop being a pri*ck, FN.

[kingoftheslipstream]

You'll be ten years to command, things are gonna slow right down... the rosters are murder ladies 'n gents...

all you new joiners, 'specially the ones startin' in Aug... don't say you weren't warned.

[Keith Discovering]

FYI, as of a few days ago, EK now telling new joiners that time to Command is a minimum seven years.

[mensaboy]

Translation: 9 years

[disconnected]

I would be somewhat wary joining EK at the moment.

Yes a job is definitely better than no job and the pay is ok though it will be earned with fatigue, disrespect, and an a care-not attitude to any problems.

Living in Dubai is likely to get unpleasant though. The city is in deep economic strife and there is much more to come. So is EK I hear. Each week another loss. There will be further cuts to T&C with little to be done about it.

The mantra's abound: "If you dont like it - leave", "You are lucky to have a job". Not exactly a model of Resource Management though they would have us believe that they place high value on this in an aircraft. Only it is not practiced from above.

For a single man woman with no ties or obligations to the place and no intention of doing anything without being able to leave the uniform on an overnight and drift away - then fine. EK will work (And so will you!)

For someone moving a family, or intending setting up shop here for some time including capital outlay on the required utilities, then think long and hard. Your family is unlikely to thank you in the future.

[masalama]

It's been a while since my last post here at the pool thread. Completed a year in the pool recently and got the news to join this september. After looking at my present situation and the pros/cons of leaving my current employment (P1 narrowbody ) and other factors , I had to decline the offer.

It was a difficult decision to make considering that EK is one of the major airlines in the world and an opportunity like this may not present itself very soon in the near future.

Funny thing is the other selected pilots from my group have also turned down the offer due to various reasons . It's a shame really 'coz I was really looking forward to joining after the interview in Dubai.

Best of luck to all of you and my only suggestion to those in the pool, do look at your situation properly ...EK might work for you if your situation requires it , a decision to join is entirely case- specific.For all those in EK giving us the low-down , thank you for your time.

masalama.:ok:

[AFD]

masalama do you know how many turned down the offer and how many accepted?
tks

[Kep Ten Jim]

I would say most accepted. Let's be realistic - you wait in the holding pool for a year, checking pprune every day to see if there are any developments and then bang....... you're offered a job. Are you really going to turn it down? - even with the harbingers of doom on this thread warning you that you'll hate Dubai, Emirates, the way of life, the traffic, the people, etc, etc. You've been waiting a year and you want this job big time!

I would even suggest that various posters on this thread who have said they were offered the position but turned it down weren't offered the position at all.

As a career move, you can't go far wrong in Emirates. For a young FO joining, they are giving 7 years to command, but we all know the state of flux the airline business is in - today it's 7 years; next year it might be revised to 2 years.

[Trader]

Kep Ten--no comment on whether to join or not--that is individual.

But TWO years!!!! Don't give people false hope. With 2400 pilots it would require 1200 upgrades per year to upgrade in 2 years. That is just not feasible.

[Jumeirah James]

KTJ,

I would suggest you don't know what you're talking about. I know two pilots who did turn down EK only a few days ago. Not because they read the posts on PPRUNE and got scared, but because, overall, it was a better option 'for them' to stay put. As Masalama said, it's an individual choice. I think (and sincerely hope), that most Pilots have the intelligence not to base a career decision on a rumour network. For you to intimate otherwise is somewhat ludicrous!

And as for "As a career move, you can't go far wrong in Emirates"....that's naivety at its best. Are you related to Captain America? :suspect:

Sometimes things are more important than shiny new jets.

[Dubai Desert Angel]

My husband turned it down. No regrets.
We are used to the desert as a family but the way EK is heading is sad.
:sad:
We are not rich but we don't have to put up with the degenerating T&C's. Once you get there with a family it's like the 'Hotel California', car loan, credit cards, education, spiraling costs of living and imploding property market. You are in debt or you don't save with the cost of living, so what's the point of a hardship posting where you are trampled on.

Good luck to those who accepted the F/O positions

[737-700pilot]

:ugh:Hey all those that turn EK down. Thank your lucky stars that you did. You're not missing much and there is more to life then flying Big Jets. You did your career, your life and your sanity a favor.

Best of luck to all those that didn't get suckered in like me.

[mikehagen]

Just heard of a hold pool guy being called up for Airbus training at EK with very short notice just recently. I thought the hold pool business was over or...?

[mensaboy]

The POOL is rapidly becoming available now, haha. Bring it on! You guys with a normal life are absolutley out of your miinds to come here...... or perhaps your are just so desparate and stupid you don't realize what a nightmare it is here!

Can't wait to fly with you, and listen to you explain how you got sucked in. I have no sympathy whatsoever.......... anymore............ for idiots.

9/10 pilots coming to EK in the next few years, will feel humiliated, abused and helpless a few months after they arrive......, NO QUESTION about that fact.

[Obbie]

They say we hit the bottom back in May and have been
climbing out of it since.

But it was more likely just a last minute cancel by someone
who thought better of the offer.

[Oblaaspop]

Jeez Mensa turn it in will you. You're like a stuck record. You say lots without saying anything at all!

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps, just maybe, a guy would look at joining here because earning an F/O's salary, having a house paid for, and being able to get credit is infinately better than... having your house re-possessed by the bank, going up the DHSS to claim your unemployment gyro every Thursday, and having to feed your kids grass?

Get your head out of your arse, and look at what's going on around you old chum.

BTW, if all you ever achieve is minimum days off every month, then get someone to teach you how to bid properly...... Mensa? Dimwit more like!

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Interesting...
I have read ALL the threads on Qatar, and most everyone is saying the same thing that most of the EK guys are saying here, EXCEPT they are saying that Qatar is crap, and that instead you should go to a good airline like EK. They are also saying that a number of Qatar pilots are leaving for EK as it is a lot better.

I haven't applied to Qatar (yet) as I do not think I want to commit to 3 years there, and miss a better job. On the other hand, maybe I should apply as Qatar is better than where I am now???

It is VERY hard to figure out what to do.

Note: I have already applied at at EK, but now do not meet the minimums, as I don't have enough hours in big enough jets.

cliff
NBO

[green-dot-speed]

Hi guys,

I was looking to EK website and couldnt find any pilot vacancy....Has recruitment been frozen at then moment?
Thanx a lot
G.D.S.

[cosmodrift]

The POOL is rapidly becoming available now, haha. Bring it on! You guys with a normal life are absolutley out of your miinds to come here...... or perhaps your are just so desparate and stupid you don't realize what a nightmare it is here!

Can't wait to fly with you, and listen to you explain how you got sucked in. I have no sympathy whatsoever.......... anymore............ for idiots.

9/10 pilots coming to EK in the next few years, will feel humiliated, abused and helpless a few months after they arrive......, NO QUESTION about that fact.


Mensaboy is clearly a mean desperate dude. That's why he deserves every minute of pain and misery he is facing at daily basis.

The hold pool has nothing to do with his life but he keeps coming here, not to help any poolie, as he made very obvious, but to try to spread his own sadness and suffering around.

That's a mean an cruel attitude, but he pays every day he is forced to look in the mirror to check if his EK uniform looks weel for another day of work at the sandpit.

He has no life now, he had no life before as well. His future? Well, you are watching him building it right now...

[Kep Ten Jim]

So there you have it - if you join Emirates you're stupid and you're an idiot!!! The world according to Mensaboy

Jeez...... some people!

[jackbauer]

EKLawyer sounds like someone who was born in the left seat, has a great roster every month and always flew for a legacy carrier. Bet he sits there and never complains about anything. Wow what a guy, you and Mentalboy would make great drinking buddies. Just the guys you want at your party, they can bore you with the details of all their friends failed marriages. If that fails then they can bore you with stories of life in the left seat and how under valued they are.

[kempilot]

Just my two cents, got my ATP in 1985, been flying airliners since 1987. Every airline in the world sucks guys. LOL just ask any pilot at any airline, they will tell you how bad their airline really is.

Just pick your fav bad airline and when you can't take it anymore, move on to the next.

Life is too short to be bitching like this.

My opinion, I work for the worst airline in America, LOL Useless Air

[IXNAT]

Look guys, here's some unsolicited advise and comments. If you are out of work or about to be, this place is great. If you have a "satisfactory" job, think not twice but three times about coming here. Everyone rostered for 90 hours or so on the 777. BUT that does not include your rest/bunk time. So you in effect you are flying over 100 hours a month.

EVERY and I mean EVERY f/o I have flown with that was hired within the last 14 months (and was working prior) has said that if they had known how it was going to change here, they would not have come. And please read CHANGE. Think about seven year upgrades, loss of income, firings at will , change of terms and conditions at will, etc etc. But if you're unemployed-Welcome.

[kempilot]

IXNAT

16 to 17 years for upgrade in the USA. Never know when you will get that furlough letter...........

[nolimitholdem]

hahaha!

having your house re-possessed by the bank, going up the DHSS to claim your unemployment gyro every Thursday, and having to feed your kids grass

This is indeed the exact candidate EK is looking for.

I was furloughed four times in N. America. So you'd think maybe I'd want to stay at EK for the "stability" of the contract and the "security" of the job.

(The contract changes and sackings have been well-covered elsewhere.)

But life is short. Don't give your best years to a place that is really pretty sad and an employer that operates without any regards for human decency. I've wasted enough time in an ugly place. It blows my mind that people just keep trying to jump on the sh$t-wagon. Human behaviour is fascinating.

[Oblaaspop]

Interesting post NLH.

Out of interest, was it after one such instance (of 4) of being laid off that you went for EK, or was it while you were in one of the secure jobs?

You contradict yourself enirely with your post!

[nolimitholdem]

Sorry, where's the contradiction? I believe the term "paradox" comes closer.

I had two points, both aimed at those who feel they are desperate enough (read: unemployed) to join. Both are designed to try and convince them that perhaps they are not quite as desperate as they think. I did join after a furlough and have regretted every day since. Since many are in the same position I was, and are pursuing the position I have, is there not some logic in offering a first-hand experience? It's only restating what many others are saying.

The one point is that if it is job security you seek, talk to the recently "resigned", and ask about their experiences. You are secure as your last flight, and the rest is - like Dubai - an illusion and a lie.

The other is that not all of the people leaving are unfamiliar with the challenges of unemployment - and yet, still can't wait to voluntarily leave and are actively seeking, and in limited cases finding, employment elsewhere.

People are free to draw their own conclusions from these facts, I am only stating them. I mentioned the multiple layoffs to underline the fact that some, (I am hardly the only one), of those who should seemingly want to cling to a job are working hard to achieve the opposite.

[forum newbie]

Wow! This thread just wont die.

The good news is that i took my name off the list 6 months ago before any class offerings went out. The irony about the pool is that when i interviewed early last year, i had numerous of my colleagues excited for me. They kept asking questions about dubai and life as an ek pilot.

Fast forward to present day and i just had a chap ask me if i was leaving for dubai. I said no without elaborating and he mentioned that emirates was on a slide downhill and that he had heard numerous bad things about dubai and ek. Just imagine that in a matter of a year, emirates has gone from a employer of choice to just another airline. I only say a year since that is the only time frame that i have experienced dealing with emirates and that alone was not a joyable experience.

The word on the street is to not apply unless you are out of work.

fb

[Bavarian]

Wow! This thread just wont die.Looks like it did. Last comment posted 20 August. Suppose everybody is flying too many hours to have time to post any gripes. Or perhaps it indicates employees have simply adjusted to the new "climate."

[atpcliff]

Hi!

They opened the website for new applicants 14 Sep. I heard hiring in Oct.

I am considering EK. I am in the middle of about a 270 day trip, and will be moved to be based in DBX soon.

cliff
NBO

[AFD]

which aicraft are you rated on?

have you been already interviewed and were you already in the pool?

can you share with us some information about your rating and experience?
thanks
afd

[asiasky]

Hi Poolies,

Does anyone received an email to make a renewal of the application? I am in the pool for a bit more than one year, I have been invited to do so, and now wating to hear news from EK.

Appreciate if another poolies whom are in the same situation have something to say about it.

[SOPS]

remember that under the new requirements you will probably need 2000 hours on aircraft above 55 tons to be considered.

[AFD]

do you think they are gonna call widebody rated guys before?

[yossy]

The other day I got an email from emirates.
And the title was as follows
"Flight Deck Opportunities- First Officers : Matching your Preference Criteria. "

I made an application on emirates career web site,but didn't complete it thoroughly,though.And I've left it unfinished for these 6 months.
I am wondering if Emirates is going to start screening soon?

I am currently captain B737NG. PIC1500hrs ttl 6500hrs

Thanks for any infos!