Vickers Varsity

[T-21]

Managed a look inside one of these machines last weekend. Memories came back of flights in them at RAF Cranwell in 1969/70 as a young Air Cadet. Enjoyed the bomb bay for map reading but we were not allowed in there for take off or landing. Remember the brake check moving out of dispersal getting covered in water ! that had somehow collected in the roof whilst parked.

Would like any pictures inside or out of this forgotten nav trainer and any stories of this excellent navigation trainer.

[aw ditor]

Varsity at the Newark museum maintained in excellent nick' Did two tours on them as a QFI at Oakington. The front end was notorious for its' leaks (wooden windows!) and one QFI flew in Oilskins'. It really was a two engined un-pressurised Viscount prototype if you compare it to the early series Viscounts. It dried out as the day progressed.

[BOAC]

If I recall correctly a very senior occifer at Cranners discoverd how good the ventral radio aerial was at alerting one to 'no gear'...................:eek:

[henry crun]

Also, as the calibration flight found out, the underside of the fuselage can absorb the impact of trees which are on the GCA final approach path, so I am told. :ouch:

[BOAC]

Obviously a cleverly designed aircraft!:)

[Yellow Sun]

Here are a few to be going on with:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2620148767_4594b32c3a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2620148415_b8b4d0a772.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/2620972438_eafdc33401.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/2620147275_e8f92e11fa.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/2620971560_05032dfdd8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/2620970712_9980bdc1b4.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/2620970132_e84200a2d9.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3196/2620144877_147ed122bf.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3044/2620969056_94e0013b5f.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3144/2620143853_c3910bc7a5.jpg

A gentleman's flying machine!

YS

[Ivan aromer]

Ah, Nice photos of a nice aircraft, good to work on, reliable donks. Fairly easy to fly, easier than the Valetta anyway.

[tristar 500]

There is a complete one at Brooklands look at www.brooklands100.org (http://www.brooklands100.org)

tristar 500

[oldpax]

I worked on Varsitys for 5 years at Oakington!Clocked up a few hours going back and forward to RAF Waterbeach where our students would practice all day without cluttering up the runway back at Oaks!! Exhausts where leaky old things and caused a few aborted trips but they were reliable old birds.I can remember two students getting a severe rep for looping one which put a few wrinkles in the wings!Perhaps the ex QFI can remember this,about 1966 I think?

[Yellow Sun]

I can remember two students getting a severe rep for looping one which put a few wrinkles in the wings!Perhaps the ex QFI can remember this,about 1966 I think?

Your memory is good, although it might have been '67. I could put names to the perpetrators but shall desist for the time being:} They started out with the aim of barrel rolling the old dear and had they persisted all would probably have been well. Unfortunately they changed their mind about half way around and attempted to pull through, that was what caused the problems! It was a tough old aeroplane though.

YS

[T-21]

Superb photos of a great flying machine and thanks everyone for contributing. A much neglected aircraft as well as the Valetta. Did anyone try a landing in the bomb bay position !! pretty scary with the ground rush. I also remember the Manby/Strubby machines. 5 FTS at Oakington did engine running crew changes all day. That would have pleased the green people today !!

[philbky]

The Finningley Varsities were regular performers over Manchester and Liverpool in the 1960s and early 1970s. As piston "heavies" became rarer, the drone of a Finningley Varsity would attract the attention of spotters hoping for something "interesting" only to eventually locate the rather tubby silver dot and turn their disappointed attention to something else, normally "pulling" a trail.

How many of those would give their eye teeth for a Varsity over the top today?

BTW, anyone have any details of the cause of the hangar fire at Finningley in September 1970 which destroyed 3 Varsities?

[canard68]

If I remember correctly the fire was started deliberatly in a replica wright flyer.

[India Four Two]

I had one ride in a Varsity, returning to Shawbury from Binbrook, after positioning a Chipmunk for UBAS Summer Camp in 1967.

The nav was using Gee for position fixing during an airway crossing and I remember Midland Radar disagreeing with the reported position. When was Gee taken out of service?

I also remember Varsities being very smokey while taxying, to the point that some people thought they were on fire.

Nice pictures, Yellow Sun

[Herod]

Not so much an unpressurised Viscount prototype as a metal-skinned Wellington with a nosewheel. Only seventy or so hours on them, but fondly remembered.

[T-21]

Brooklands Aviation at Sywell used Little Staughton airfield from about 1958 to 1971 for all Varsity major overhauls . This included spar renewals,engine bearer mods and repaints in the new Polyurathane finish.
No 1439 Flight was formed at Hemswell 01st May 1954 for liaison work in Australia with nuclear tests. Can anybody confirm the Varsities were yellow overall ?

[T-21]

philbky, The Varsities in the Finningley fire 4/9/70 were WF370(flew in this at Cranwell)WF385 and WF423.

yellow sun, The Varsity "A" in the photo is WL625 ended up on the Leeming dump 1971. "J" is I believe WF410 which ended up at Bristol Airport. Lovely shots please keep them coming !!

[reynoldsno1]

....aaaah the flying pig .... easy to tip on its *rse on the ground if everyone wanted to use the bog at the same time. Good idea to wind in the trailing HF aerial before landing as well - could rearange a few roof tiles otherwise...

[Fareastdriver]

The nav was using Gee for position fixing during an airway crossing and I remember Midland Radar disagreeing with the reported position. When was Gee taken out of service?

IIRC Gee was finally shut down around 62/63 so the Nav was probably using Decca which was a broadly similar system.

[Milt]

Stealing a Varsity

Didn't a non flying airman steal a Varsity in the late 50s. Ended up crashing into a French village after several hours of controlled flight.

I found the Varsity to be somewhat of a mess inside but we embryo TPs at ETPS managed to find the ragged edges of their performance and handling envelopes. Must say I preferred the ladylike handling of the Gooneybird.

Unlike the Bristol Freighter, I didn't have to ask someone the way to the Varsity flight deck before flying one for the first time.

Then there was the Valetta but I think it came before the Varsity.

[Yellow Sun]

IIRC Gee was finally shut down around 62/63 so the Nav was probably using Decca which was a broadly similar system.

GEE remained the "Rapid Fixing Aid" for basic navigator training until 1970. Decca was not fitted to the 2 Air navigation School (ANS) aircraft at Gaydon until 1969 although it had been in use on the 1 ANS Dominies and the pilot training Varsitys at Stradishall and Oakington for some time. The Varsitys at
1 ANS were fitted with Green Satin doppler (IIRC) but I cannot recall whether they had Decca or not.

The 2 ANS aircraft had GEE Mk3 but GEE Mk2 was still installed in the pilot trainers.

The VOR/DME fit appeared on the 2 ANS aircraft in 1969 and by the time both ANS were relocated at Finningley as 6 Flying Training School (FTS) all the aircraft had this fit. I do not know whether the pilot training aircraft were similarly modified. TACAN was introduced prior to 1972.

It is worth reflecting that in 1968 all the equipment on the Varsitys used for basic navigator training would have been recognisable to a WW2 bomber crew.

YS

[alvin-sfc]

Ahhhh ! The Varsity.My one and only flight in one was as an air cadet on summer camp at Linton upon Ouse 1971.As we flew over York,I got a great view of the minster from the "bomb bay."
Coincidently it was whilst flying as co-pilot in a Varsity,that our CO,W.cmdr Ralph Reid-Buckle lost his life along with several others when their a/c crashed whilst trying to limp back to East Midlands Airport with an engine problem.

[Yellow Sun]

Milt,

Stealing a Varsity

Didn't a non flying airman steal a Varsity in the late 50s. Ended up crashing into a French village after several hours of controlled flight.


There was an earlier thread on this incident that may be found here. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/aviation-history-nostalgia/111508-stolen-vickers-varsity.html)

YS

[Warmtoast]

My one and only trip in a Varsity took place in June 1956 whilst I was with Fighter Command Communications Squadron (FCCS) at RAF Bovingdon.

A 90-Group Varsity calibration aircraft (from Watton?) came down to Bovingdon to calibrate the nearby ROTOR Radar station at Chenies. This meant flying outbound and inbound tracks to the Radar station on various headings. Rather boring but it provided a useful opportunity to sightsee London from around 10,000ft. This photo shows the navigator of the Varsity at his plotting station. I recognise the R1155 HF receiver with the big tuning dial.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Bovingdon/BovingdonRadarCalibrationVarsity.jpg

During the flight I took a photo of a sparsely occupied London Heathrow as it appeared in June 1956 from 10,000ft looking east. The newly completed Europa Building, later Terminal 2 is in the centre island, whilst alongside it the Oceanic Terminal; later Terminal 3 is under construction. In 1956 transatlantic traffic departed from the North Terminal alongside the A4.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Bovingdon/BovingdonRadarCalibrationVarsity-LA.jpg

No M4 as yet (in 1956 the M4 was but a gleam in the planner’s eye - the London bit of the M4 westwards opened nine years later in 1965), however the Bath Road (A4) shows up on the left as the dark strip running top to bottom parallel with the north main taxiway & runway.

On the right the A30 (the lighter of the two darkish strips) wends its way through the (then) rural delights of Middlesex towards Hounslow and London. Straight ahead and beyond the airfield boundary, just beneath the cloud line the A312 can be seen running left to right.

[bluesilk]

I was at 1ANS in 1961 and I must say I don't remember that we had Green Satin to play with (though I knew what it was and how it worked) on the Varsity, and as you say Yellow Sun Decca came in much later. My somewhat elderly memory tells me I had a drift sight, bubble sextant, ADF (either a GEC model or the much better Marconi) and an API plus GEE mk 2 or 3. Plus a Siggie who could count the dots/dashes on Consul a damn sight easier than us u/t navs. Great days.:ok:

[reynoldsno1]

They had Green Satin in '73, plus a TACAN - still had Rebecca though. The Green Satin had trouble coping with the extreme ground speeds though :ok:, and would unlock with regular monotony... got to FL205 once, it took a long time....

[norwich]

A couple of period pics for you, courtesy of Colin Lourie. with permission !
Keith.

Leuchers 1960.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/old%20props/leuchers1960.jpg

Leuchers 1961.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/old%20props/leuchars1961.jpg

Leuchers 1962.





http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/old%20props/leuchars1962.jpg

[T-21]

Nice photo's. WL691/N of No115 Squadron Tangmere was dumped at Andover after 1969. WL626/E from No 1 Air Navigation School ,Stradishall is now preserved at East Midlands Airport. WJ901/H is also from No 1 ANS but from Topcliffe ,SOC 1975 @ Kemble. They moved to Strad in Dec 1961.

Can anybody post any RAF College Cranwell Varsity pictures please ?

[Akrotiri bad boy]

The only working Varsity I saw was in Boscombe colours during the late 1980's. It operated for a few days from Gutersloh, quite probably doing some sort of complex beer run: Oooops, sorry, I meant to say NavEx.;)

[spekesoftly]

The only working Varsity I saw was in Boscombe colours during the late 1980's.

Probably WL679, which last flew in July 1992 when it was delivered to the RAF Museum Cosford, and is now part of the Transport and Training collection. I was looking at it only yesterday!

[lightningmate]

WL679

This was actually a Farnborough aircraft, one of 3 Varsities operated by RAE between mid-70s and early 90s.

WL679 was a FLIR research aircraft so its presence at Gutersloh was unlikely to have been just for refreshments. I recall 2 weeks at the same place with the same aircraft in the early 80s chasing tanks etc. Much fun.

lm

[Milt]

Had the challenge of flying each of the Varsitys, or should that be Varsities, at ETPS Farnborough in 1955.

I had one flight with an instructor named Jack? Hindle before being let loose with flight test exercises on my own but I had plenty of prior time in Gooney Birds so it wasn't a big deal.

I never did record the letters before the numbers which oddly were 381 and 681. Could I have been mistaken with the first digit although I think there were two in the fleet which also included a Valetta..

[chevvron]

At Topcliffe for ATC camp in '71, Varsities were being used by Airman/Aircrew Training School. One departed for Gibraltar on the wednesday and we were told it would go u/s when it got there. The aircraft taking 'spares' out on thursday would also be going u/s, so they would both have to weekend there!
As for '679; as it landed one day on runway 29 at Farnborough, the controller noticed smoke from the main gear and advised the pilot, who replied noncholantly 'yeah I'm going off the end'!!

[T-21]

Milt, The aircraft were WF381 "41" and WL681 "11". ETPS used several machines over the years including the prototype VX828 when it was dismantled circa 1962 at Farnborough.
WF381 crashed 4 miles North of Tangmere on a training flight with ETPS 19.10.59. WL681 ended up with Shorts at West Malling.

[chevvron]

In my first few months at Farnborough, a Varsity from West Malling would transit around the Gatwick Zone using callsign 'Bluebell 1'; would that have been '681 I wonder? As far as I can recollect, '679 flew out to Duxford when it retired from Farnborough (or maybe that was one of the other RAE Varsities?)

[T-21]

WL679 was used by RAE Farnborough from Mar 1977 until flown to Cosford Museum on 27/7/92,unique in the raspberry ripple colour scheme RAF Museum Aircraft Collection :: Vickers Varsity T WL679 (http://aviation.elettra.co.uk/rafmuseum/page.php?aircraft=varsity)

Shorts at West Malling used WF387 and WL681. The Met Research Flight retired WF425 to Duxford although WJ945 is still preserved there.

[Red Four]

BBC - Archive - Aerial Journeys - Television Goes Flying (http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/aerialjourneys/5347.shtml?all=1&id=5347)

Interesting but fairly poor quality film from BBC 1950's Watton with Varsity plus Lincoln/Hunters/Meteor/Venom.

[forget]

I have a memory of being driven to the 56/57 Motor Show in London. We were southbound on the A1, around South Yorks I suppose. The dual carriageway was being built and, there on the new un-opened north-side, lay a Varsity - wheels up. Anyone know what date that would be?

[Exnomad]

I did a nav course at Bishops Court in 53-53. Valetta flying classrooms were used initially with 10 students, first allowed out on our own in Anson XIX, followed by the majority of the course in Varsity. One point, they would fly close to maximum allowed TAS in level flight, about 40 kts faster than specified on the flight plan. This was used if the pilot had a date that night. If it happened too often we needed an extra trip to make up the required hours. Longest trip around 8 hours on a single excercize.
Aids used were Astro, GEE and Rebecca

[ralphmalph]

The first Regimental bar for the N I Regiment AAC was in a Varsity fuselage recovered from the fire dump at Aldergrove. The Regimental bar was re-opened 2 years ago and renamed The Varsity.

We still had a Varsity prop outside 1 Flight AAC at the time, although not sure if it is still there!.

Ralph

[Fareastdriver]

Varsity fuselage recovered from the fire dump at Aldergrove.

Could well have been the last Varsity I flew in about 1977. It was used by the MU to deliver ferry pilots to and from the Maintenance Unit rebuilding ex-Navy Tombs.

[T-21]

The 23 MU hack was WJ898 named "Wilhelmina". 23 MU was in letters on the fin. It was on the Aldergrove dump in 1982 and was one of the last Varsities in service. Thanks for all the input and news.

[forget]

GEE. Some interesting stuff on its first and and last days, 115 Squadron HERE. (http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.hunt3/units/115Sq.html)

[Tim McLelland]

Ahh the magnificanet Varsity!
I used to spend my childhood holidays at Mablethorpe, so I kinda grew up wth the sight and sound of Varsities chugging around, thanks to nearby Manby and Strubby. The big treat of the holiday was standing outside Strubby watching the Varsities come chugging down the taxiway, wheels squealing as usual - just magnificent.

I never managed to get airborne in one sadly - closest I got was a day when Don Selway had just displayed at Shuttleworth - we drove over to Duxford after the display only to find that Don had experienced some rather odd vibrations from the tail during the flight, so he was reluctant to fly her again without further investigation. But at least we managed to crank the old bird up and do a run down the runway. Poor old Don died of course and the Varsity never flew again.

I keep saying that when (hah hah) I win the Lottery, I'm getting a Varsity back into the air!

[T-21]

Tim, I lived at Manby and always remember the piston Provosts flying over my infant school at Grimoldby. My father was at Strubby on the Canberras and Dominies later. They shared a hangar with the Meteors,on the southern side of the airfield.

[Pom Pax]

they would fly close to maximum allowed TAS in level flight, about 40 kts faster than specified on the flight plan
145 + 40 = 185 For 50 years I've thought that 185 was as fast as the Pig would fly now I know why. IIRC it caused a 20% increase in fuel consumption.
This was used if the pilot had a date that night
No he was frightened of his wife's wroth if he was late for her dinner party.
I think he was 30 minutes late anyway!

[Amos Keeto]

Just picked up on this - yes here you are, a RAF College Cranwell machine taken at Kinloss on 1st October 1969.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/CopyofWJ950-AVarsityT1RAFCKInloss1O.jpg

[Tim McLelland]

ahh, what a beauty! Don't suppose anyone has a picture of a Varsity at Strubby by any chance? I keep looking and so far I've only managed to find one *sob*

[spekesoftly]

The best I can offer is rather poor quality B&W photo of a farewell formation flypast over RAF Strubby taken when it finally closed in 1972. I posted it on an earlier Varsity thread and here's the link:-

Varsity Formation over Strubby (http://www.pprune.org/2693819-post32.html)

[Tim McLelland]

Wow that's a lovely photo. Was it really 1972 when Strubby closed? I was convinced it was rather later, but I suppose it must have been, considering Finningley soldiered-on until 1976.

[spekesoftly]

I'm fairly sure that Strubby closed in 1972 - I was there at the time. The closure of its parent unit, RAF Manby, followed two years later. Some nice photos of Varsities at Manby here (http://www.controltowers.co.uk/M/Manby.htm)

Just for the record, RAF Finningley soldiered-on until 1996!

[aviate1138]

I flew in one, from Benson [1960], the Varsity was from Watton ILS Calibration Flight as Queens Flight was complaining about the ILS having a dip in the glideslope which coincided with a small hill north of the runway. As I was on duty in the glideslope 'shed' I was hauled on board by an irate Queen's Flight Sqdn Ldr to show me the error of my ways! We did 3 varying approaches and each time the beam \dipped' at the hillock. In the 'Shed' the meter needles were exactly where they should be.

Anyway Plessey or Marconi [I think] sent bods down with every electronic gizmo to find why, what, where was causing the problem. I seem to recall it turned out to be a huge lump of magnetized ironstone in the farmers hillocky field. Anyway that is what I was told. Being near the Thames Benson had some foggy days and I don't blame the pilots for not trusting the ILS when viz was minimal. The ILS was updated shortly afterwards.

I loved the Varsity, all throbs and oily airframe smells and to lie in a Cotswold field, sunny and cloudless sky and hear the drone of another Varsity on a Nav exercise? trundling east/westwards at I guess about 8,000 ft and fading gently away is as nostalgic to me as the sight/sound of a distant steam train's smoke/whistle puffing through the green Hampshire Countryside.

I later got 20+ hours in the LH Seat in a B-25J Mitchell [in California/Oregon/Washington] and often wondered if the Varsity was similar to fly. ISTR the B-25 was noisier!

[skyline15]

Hi all,

Re the Aldergrove MU Varsity....

Also saw WF382 operating out of St Athan in 1977 coded 23MU...anybody remember why it was known as "Alf" ? (was it Aldergrove Logisitics Flight maybe?????)

also see:

Photo United Kingdom - Air Force Vickers Varsity WF382 (http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=13946)

Cheers,

Skyline

[Tim McLelland]

Sorry, I meant that Finningley soldiered-on with the Varsity until 1976:). Funny how dates get confused with the passage of time - I'd always told myself the last Varsity display I saw was at Finningley's BofB display in Sept 76 but I guess it must have been 75, as I seem to recall that most of the Varsities were disposed-of before the summer. Dunno why, but I'd assumed Strubby had closed shortly before then but as you say, it was evidently much earlier. God I feel even older now!

[T-21]

Great photo of WJ950, I flew in this aircraft at Cranwell on 24.10.69 with Flt/Lt Keith Broughton to Chivenor and back. We were moving an airman and the inside was full of packing cases and even a bicycle ! It was 1hr 20 down and 1hr 05 back at 9,000 feet @ 150kts. this aircraft ended its days on the Laarbruch dump.
Thanks for the Manby shots ,I lived in the quarters in the background. WF422 has no codes and look's to be fresh off overhaul by Brooklands Aviation at Little Staughton.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

OMG, massive nostalgia department ...

I was an ATCO at Strubby 65-67 with the Pigs [and Canberras, later the Dominie , known locally as the "VC-5"]. Some monstrously experienced ex-WW2 QFIs there doing the School of Refresher Flying. As Dave [fellow plt off ATCO] and I were basically the only young people on the Unit, we were sort of "pet plt offs" and treated wonderfully kindly by the "elders". We had our own flying kit, and would often be roped in as "co-pilot" for the occasional SCT or Air Test if we were off-watch from the Tower. :)

I can still remember some of it ... "Speed below 135, gear down, 2400 rpm, Co-synchronise, Air intakes Filter, Oil Coolers Auto, brake pressure [1200?], check 3 greens .... Checks complete [possibly?]. Dave and I used to be tearing our hair out in the GCA truck when the Refresher students used to take 3-4 minutes to do that!

Sadly, no photos to offer, apart from one of me in Approach ... UHF on the one-sided bakelite telephone headset, and VHF done with the bakelite telephone with the PTT button!

edit ... logbook only lists WJ905, WJ908 and WL429.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ T-21
Tim, I lived at Manby and always remember the piston Provosts flying over my infant school at Grimoldby. My father was at Strubby on the Canberras and Dominies later. They shared a hangar with the Meteors,on the southern side of the airfield.
The Meteors had gone when I arrived in 65 ... replaced by the Manby JPs, of course. The Canberras ["2 Sqn"] for the SpecN/StaffN School at Manby had moved to the hangar out on the East Side [Sqn Ldr John Sweet, later OC 85 Sqn at Binbrook]. The South side became all Varsity.

We still had the occasional Meteor ... Sgt Pilot B****** c/s 69 used to come up from Chivenor every Friday, to be met in the 2 Sqn dispersal by his tottie in her Jaguar Mk II, and would depart first thing on Monday to get the jet back to Chiv in time for their 2nd wave ;)

[CharlieJuliet]

Arrived at Manby in September '64 straight from FTS at Acklington. I flew a couple of trips in the Varsity, and then was let loose as a co-pilot for the guys going through refresher flying on their 'solo' flights. Sadly I only recorded the registration numbers, but see from my logbook that I was co-pilot in 422 in Nov when we flew a Senior Naval Officer from Strubby to Thorney Island. From memory the SNO had an aircraft at Manby, but it was too foggy for Transport Command to take off. The Commandant CAW said 'my lads will do it' and we departed from a very foggy Strubby (we had a Varsity that had diverted there, and initially the weather was not too bad but fogged in as we drove down). The first low viz take off I had been in - I recall breaking fog at around 100 feet. We spent the night at Thorney and flew back the next day. I finished on the Varsity shortly after that, and had the very good fortune to complete AFTS on the Meteor at Strubby because the Gnats were not very servicable at the time. I much enjoyed the 'super pig' and was fortunate to be reunited with it again at Farnborough in the 80s were I flew quite a few test sorties on WL679. Delighted to see it stilll exists.

[red 5]

I seem to remember when my Father got posted to Wyton in 1976 that there used to be a Varsity parked just in front of the control tower that used to fly occasionally. I seem to remember it being there for a few years, just wondered if anyone can remember what it was used for and was it the last one flying in Air Force service.

[T-21]

I have WJ916 with the EWE & TU(Electronic Warfare Establishment & Training Unit ?)Wyton ,made its last flight from Wyton to Lyneham dump 28/2/77. WF424, CFS/17 ended up on the dump at Wyton around 1976.

[red 5]

Thanks T-21 i couldn't remember the reg but WJ916 that's the one, i'm sure i have a picture of it somewhere.

[T-21]

I wonder what happened to all the old Varsity crews ,the Master Signaller kept us fed and loads of coffee and tea. One stopped us from passing out due dozing on the mainspar at 9,000ft for a couple of hours. without oxygen. We kept away from the checking screen Navigator as he and the pupils were very busy . I contented myself with relating the map to the land features from that splendid view in the bomb-bay. To this day I am sure my geography and map reading skills go back to my Varsity flights. On the trip home we stood behind the pilots and acted as extra look outs in the Scampton/Waddington airspace,and the pilots encouraged us being there. I used to get home tired after being on oxygen for a few hours and still with the engine sound in my ears. Happy days only wish some of the youth today could experience something like that. It also made me appreciate the bomber crews as we flew over the disused airfields of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire.

[aw ditor]

T21, the Varsity crews "Retired Hurt" long ago! (Well I did anyway) And now the former home of 5 FTS, Oakington, has been renamed Northstowe' and awaits demolition and then some 9,500 houses. Glad you recall your flights in the Varsity with nostalgia, they were good aircraft for Cadet flights and I cannot recall us refusing a request from the local ATC/CCF units. The QFIs' from Oakington meet up every two years but regretably our numbers are dwindling.

[Fly380]

So soon it might be over Over over and ............out.:}

[T-21]

Fly380 ? Aw ,My mate and I just knocked on the door of the Varsity Squadron on the first Monday of our school holidays and asked to fly ? After checking our 3822 we were sitting in on a flight briefing. Bet you could not do that today ! We were dead keen . We did'nt tell the squadron and came back for more flights at Easter.

[allyn]

Someone (one of you?) posted a video (slides in the beginning and movie footage in the last half) of their time in the Varsity:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKb8fVhKVOw

[T-21]

Thanks Allyn for that. From a casual start I am amazed at the wealth of info,photo's and film posted on this thread . Thank you everyone as it is recording the history of a forgotten workhorse of the RAF.

[Yellow Sun]

T21,

What a lovely piece of video, brings it all back.

See your PMs

YS

[Magic Motorsport]

WL 681 was indeed a Shorts operated aircraft. My father Peter Harrison was Chief TP for Shorts Flying Services Division and operated WL 681 on equipment trials from Rochester 1953 to 1964 and from West Malling 1964 until he retired in 1977. Bluebell 1 was his call sign taken from the small village near Rochester airfield, Bluebell Hill where we lived. He is still with us today and at 92 remains an avid reader of Flight each week.

While at West Malling they also operated two other Varsitys. When I can get to his log books I will post the serial numbers.

Nick Harrison

[Amos Keeto]

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WJ947VarsityT1RAFCAWStrubby16OCT197.jpg
My Varsity archives are legendary!;) Tim, Your wish is granted - here is WJ947 of the College of Air Warfare at Strubby on 16th October 1970.
I have a large collection of top quality Varsity slides and am pleased to show them on this thread.

[NickB]

Please do Amos, please do! :ok:

[Up & Away]

Many thanks to 'CC' who directed me to this thread.

Flew WJ947 at 5FTS RAF Oakington Oct-Dec 1973 (97course)

Other aircraft we flew in various colour schemes
WF326 WF329 WF331 WF371 WF375 WF389(which were older than we the studes)
WF409, WF418, WF419, WF422, WF429
WJ892, WJ902, WJ912, WJ920, WJ941, WJ942, WJ947
WL628, WL629, WL634, WL670, WL671, WL676

3Sqn CFS RAF Little Rissington 1974
WF377 and WF424

Any more photos gratefully recieved
thanks:ok:

[T-21]

Amos,

What a super photo !! please post more .the Varsity seems to have a character of its own,solid and dependable.

[Amos Keeto]

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/TheRedBarrowsRAF5FTSAbingdon15SEPT1.jpg

Okay guys - how about a Varsity aerobatic team??:eek: Here you see WJ921,WF371 and WJ920 of "The Red Barrows" from 5 FTS at Finningley which I photographed performing at Abingdon on 15th September 1973.
Does anyone know the names of the pilots, team leader and the dates they formed and disbanded? Also where else did they appear?

[FMM910]

Check your PMs

[Up & Away]

second guess was spot on!!:ok:

The 'Orange' has got me

George

[aw ditor]

Amos


5FTS was at Oakington.

[chevvron]

Don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but a Varsity at RAE Bedford successfuly carried out the first EVER Cat 3 ILS approaches.

As regards early NVG trials, these were carried out using 2 systems looking throught the bomb bay forward windows, one being FLIR, the other LLTV. I remember OC Flying coming back at about 11 pm one night, and on doing a pass over the airfield, decided to try a landing with no runway lighting. All went well with a superb view of the runway (I saw the videotape with soundtrack) until they lowered the gear, and discovered the nosewheel effectively blocked the view from both sensors!

[T-21]

Chevvron, Were the trials done at Heathrow as development for the BEA Trident Autoland Cat 3 programme ?

[chevvron]

Probably did some development flying there, but as far as I can recall (article in either RAF Flying Review or Air Pictorial c1960) the bulk was done at RAE Bedford where BLEU was based.

[T-21]

There was a Flypast magazine article sometime ago on the Varsities of BLEU flown by "Pinky" Stark a character with a large handlebar moustache who captained a lot of the test flights.

[Tim McLelland]

Beautiful photograph Amos - thats the first colour shot of a Varsity at Strubby that I've ever seen. Delicious!

As for the 3-ship team, I've seen photos of them at St.Mawgan too. I was under the impression that they were from 5FTS.

[Herod]

Silly question, but can anyone remember the fuel burn per hour of the Varsity in the cruise? (Ok, I have to come clean. Since I'm no longer allowed to fly real aeroplanes I have to content myself with Flight Sim) :{

[Pom Pax]

100 - 105 gph @ 145knot IAS at 15,000ft, Valletta a bit more thirsty 120? @ 130k & 12,000ft.
Flat out 185k that burn can become 145 gph ..... which nearly became an embarrassment.

[Amos Keeto]

Sorry guys, getting muddled up - yes 5 FTS was at Oakington, 6 FTS at Finningley. Right, must be time for another quality Varsity photo...
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WJ911-XVarsityT1RAF115SqnLYN12JUL68.jpg
This time, it's WJ911 of 115 Squadron, RAF Signals Command. Shot this at RAF Lyneham on 12th July 1968,when I was an ATC cadet. Unusual with a black nose radome. I think it was doing circuits there all day calibrating Lyneham's radar and they had stopped for lunch.

[India Four Two]

What's in the dome under the rear fuselage?

[Padhist]

It was a friend of mine that first demonstrated this very special and spectactular landing tecnique.
You arrive at 1000ft over the threshold having already called landing.You close throttles, select full flap and gear down and push the column full forward, you are now plunging earthwards. At 300ft ease back gently on the stick and low and behold a very gently landing...Very impressive

[Padhist]

It was a friend of mine that first demonstrated this very special and spectactular landing tecnique.
You arrive at 1000ft over the threshold having already called landing.You close throttles, select full flap and gear down and push the column full forward, you are now plunging earthwards. At 300ft ease back gently on the stick and low and behold a very gently landing...Very impressive

[spekesoftly]

And especially impressive when viewed from the prone bomb-aimers position! ;)

[Herod]

Thanks, Pom Pax

[aw ditor]

Padhist

The arrival' you described was called the "Ski Jump". The only time you used the max flap 64 degree (?) flap position.

[SPIT]

Hi
Do you know what happened to the Varsity ??? on the field behind the kennels belonging to the RAF Police at RAF Swinderby ???? :confused:

[circle kay]

SPIT
Can't recall a Varsity at Swinderby (to stay) since the type left in the mid 1960s.

Newton had one for RAF Police Dog Training Pictured here after being taken away for scrap (http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Vickers-668-Varsity/1358877&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=5&sok=WHERE__%28aircraft_generic_%3D_%27Vickers_Varsity%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=1367105&next_id=1354780)

[Tim McLelland]

Hope they didn't try fitting those Sea Prince wings to the fuselage - no wonder they scrapped it:)

[SPIT]

Hi
Thank you Circle Kay you are quite right it was Newton. :eek::ok:

[Bye]

hope nobody minds, found these in some old photo's.

taken during an airshow at old warden i think very early eighties.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/geoff_bye/varsity1.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/geoff_bye/varsity2_filtered.jpg

Geoff

[Tim McLelland]

Brilliant! Great photos - can almost hear those engines!

[Postfade]

Changi 6th October 1961- visiting Varsity WJ903 from the Electronics School at Hullavington.
It stayed for about 2 weeks and was joined by Canberra T4 WD944- both I imagine on 'calibration duties'.

http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/Varsity%20WJ903%20from%20Electronics%20School,%20Hullavingto n.%20Changi-Oct%2061-S003A.jpg

Another Varsity visitor, a long way from home, was this one WF409 from the Central Flying School. Must have been a very long Navex to get it to Changi in late 1963?

http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/Varsity%20WF409%20of%20CFS-Changi%20late%201963-S463A.jpg

David Taylor.

[Tim McLelland]

Very early Varsity shots there, back at the dayglow paint stage before sticky-backed plastic came along, although the second aircraft appears to be at a half-way stage with "Fabglow" applied to the nose.

Incidentally, had the Electronics School borrowed their aircraft? It has the CFS badge on the fuselage.

[Herod]

409's in my logbook. It was Oakington based in '73.

[Postfade]

Yes Day-glo paint, but still very bright I remember on this one. Day-glo could be very 'orangy' but sometimes became quite 'reddish'.
I do see two unit emblems on the nose, but on the other side was just the Electronics School one I believe.

http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/Varsity%20WJ903-Oct%2061-Changi-S034A.jpg

I even took a cu of it.

http://www.davidtaylorsound.co.uk/share/Aircraft%20pics/Unit%20badge%20on%20Varsity%20WJ903-Oct%2061-Changi-S035A.jpg

Did RAF units do 'graffiti attacks' on others' aircraft, as was common in the Far East for visitors to Australia and New Zealand? Loads of the planes at Changi turned up with kangaroos and kiwis on their noses. This sometimes stretched to unit badges as well.

David Taylor

[T-21]

WF409 "C" belonged to No 2 Air Navigation School and WJ903"F" was with the AES, strange it has the CFS Pelican badge ,this aircraft went to Glasgow Airport Fire Service on 6.2.75. They were probably based together at Hullavington at that time.
Thank you for posting and Happy New Year to all "Flying Pig" fans .

[Tim McLelland]

My guess is that it was a CFS machine at the time, but loaned to the ES, hence the addition of their badge.

The mystery I still haven't quite solved is why my early memories of Varsities at Strubby involve aircraft with the dayglow orange cheatline (with a thin black outline) that used to run along the fuselage and then zig-zag down towards the nose. All the photographes I've seen of CAW machines suggest they didn't carry this paint scheme but had a simple blue cheatline.

Anybody recall if any other non-CAW Varsities operated from Strubby at any stage? It would explain the mystery!

[T-21]

Tim,
I believe Varsities of the RAF Signals Command based at Watton,Tangmere and Cottesmore carried the orange/black cheatline with the nose zig zag flash. Some of these aircraft found their way into training units hence the mix. The CAW machines carried the blue thin cheatline with aircraft numbers on the nose and fin,whereas other units used alphabet letters.

The machine in the photo at Singapore was probably loaned to the CFS and being used by "trappers" to check out Valetta crews ?

[Tim McLelland]

Just to complicate things still further, I believe most of the Signals Command Varsities actually had yellow cheatlines oulined in black, but with the usual dayglow trim on the rest of the airframe (as seen on the colour shot on the last page in fact). From what I've seen, I think it was mostly Topcliffe that had Varsities with the afore-mentioned dayglow/zigzag cheatline, but I presume other units had some too. It just seems odd that the only Varsities I can remember seeing at Strubby had the zigzag dayglow cheatline and yet all the CAW Varsity photographs I've seen show the straight blue cheatline. Strange business indeed!

[happybiker]

WF 379 was one of a pair of Varsities I recall working on during my time at the Royal Radar Establisment, Pershore from 1967-70. I had the pleasure of my second flight in this aircraft. In case you are wondering, my first flight experience was in a Tiger also based at Pershore. :)

Photos: Vickers 668 Varsity T1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Vickers-668-Varsity/1026415/L/)

[Geehovah]

Here are a couple from a rainy At Home Airshow at Finningley many moons ago. The colour picture is from an aviation mag in the 70s and found its way into my log book. Sadly I didn't take any pictures during flying training. Just surviving the course seemed higher priority at the time.

The standard fit in my day was an API, a GPI, a drift sight, gee and console. Decca was only fitted in the Dominies IIRC.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Varsity.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Varsity2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/DeeGee/Varsity3.jpg

[QuePee]

http://i40.tinypic.com/1dybo7.jpg

Earlier in this thread was a picture of Varsity WJ911, so I thought I would add another of the same aircraft. This was taken shortly after it overran the end of the runway at RAF Lindhoilme on 09 April 1954 having narrowly missed two small boys who have never run so fast, before or since. They were QuepPee and his brother. Obviously the aircraft was repaired and put back into service.

[T-21]

I am amazed at the cracking photographs posted on this forum for everyone to enjoy. Thank you for bringing the Varsity to life again . :)

[aw ditor]

Geehovah

Decca plus Flight Log (8a?) was fitted to the pilot trainers' at 5FTS Oakington for the Airways' part of the syllabus (only had one ADF) and to facilitate keeping within the local training area when on General Handling'. The Flight Log was excellent and certainly accurate enough to complete an I.F. R/W Approach to a DH of 300', though never "officially". Changing to the correct keys in the turret-head of the Flight Log was vital especially when going "overseas" e.g. Berlin.

Aw Dit.

[Yellow Sun]

Geehova,

The standard fit in my day was an API, a GPI, a drift sight, gee and console. Decca was only fitted in the Dominies IIRC.


The 2 ANS (Gaydon) Varsitys had the fit you describe except for the GPI. The GPI was on the 1 ANS (Stradishall) aircraft that had Green Satin. In the late 60's the 2 ANS aircraft received twin VOR and Decca 8A, the latter to replace GEE as the rapid fixing aid! Some time after the move by both units to Finningley the fit was standardised as Green Satin/GPI, Tacan and twin VOR and Decca.

aw ditor,

Well if you could watch yourself taxying on the flight log it stood to reason that it was good enough for an approach, not sure that I would contemplate it now though! Having the correct keys was only half the battle. I seem to remember that the big challenge was not c:mad::mad::mad:ing up the chain change.


Happy days :)
YS

PS.
We have all neglected to mention the Rebecca/Eureka

[Amos Keeto]

Must be time for another 'cracking photo'!
Here is WJ908 of the College of Air Warfare landing at Odiham in September 1968 wearing the black (not blue)cheatline that Tim describes, which does seem to be unique to CAW Varsities during the 'silver and dayglo years'. I don't have any photos of CAW Varsities with the dayglo zig-zag cheatlines!
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WJ908VarisityT1RAFCAWOdihamSEPT1968.jpg

[Herod]

If I may let the decca drift us slightly off-thread :), when I was flying Wessex we had 1" O.S. maps with Decca overlay. It was quite feasible to make an approach to Odiham, using (IIRC) the green 30 line for left/right and the purple lines for range, with the other pilot calling out the ranges and recommended heights. Of course, that always assumed he knew his left from his right!

OK, back on thread.

[Tim McLelland]

Cracking photo indeed! As mentioned, the blue (or is it black? Hadn't considered that possibility!) "non-zigzag" cheatline seems to have been exclusive to CAW although a "zigzag" version of the blue line seems to have been adopted by the BCBS at Lindholme (plus a few other odd eaxmples with the RAE etc.). The yellow cheatline seems to have been exlclusive to Signals and the dayglow cheatline more common to Topcliffe, Stradishall and Gaydon machines. I have no idea why I kept seeing Varsities with the dayglow cheatlines at Strubby, unless they occasionally borrowed aircraft from other unit ...and to think that I used to imagine that all Varsities looked the same!

[oxenos]

Early in this thread was a question about a Varsity "bent" at Oakington when 2 students lost it while doing a barrel roll. It happened in the summer of 64, when I had just finished the course and was waiting to start the Shack (MOTU) course. I went to have a look at it in the hanger and there were distinct stretch marks in the lower wing skin. I've a pretty good idea who dunnit (not me). Perhaps it happened again later, if people recall it as 66/67.
Also that summer was the 5 FTS "Balbo". The fast jet FTSs had been doing 4 ship flybys at the BFTSs, and the CFI, Stanislas Wandzilak was determined to go one better. All 26 Varsitys got airborne, and formed a 24 ship formation with a spare and a "whipper in". "Did" all the BFTSs, returned to Oakington and shuffled into a 26 ship echelon starboard for a run over the field, peel off port and a stream landing, landing left and right sides of the centre line. We were on short finals with about 8 aircraft ahead on the runway, luckily no-one had a brake failure.

[aw ditor]

Oxenos

The (attempted) barrel roller was "interviewed" by the AOC. I believe it was more like a roll over and pull through! Uncle Stan's Balbos were great fun unless you were right on the inside or the outside of any turns. You were either stalling or going b***s-out to keep up!

[oxenos]

Being at the back of a rear box was no fun either. As I recall the 24 ship was two vics of boxes, stacked down, so the rear aeroplanes were a hell of a lot lower than the leader.
On return to Oakington, after the switch to echelon starboard, the lead was taken by an ex Coastal pilot, who in best maritime tradition called "Break port now,now, NOW" Result was two big twitches, followed by the break.
I heard that the two students had already done two sucessful barrel rolls, but lost it on the third one.

[T-21]

Thanks for posting WJ908 Amos . This machine was struck off RAF charge on 25.1.71 and sent to Manston fire school. Has anybody got any good internal photographs please ? showing the nav stations and bomb bay area of the Varsity.

Did the RAF get value for money out of the Vickers Varsity ? I think so considering it's length of service and different roles. Also the engines and airframe stood up well to intensive use . What do former aircrew and groundcrew think ?

[Acamar]

3kingham - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://s718.photobucket.com/albums/ww182/3kingham/)If this has worked, you should be seeing a photo of the cockpit of WL 692, and the nav position. Both taken in Mar 70.

[oldpax]

Nice reading all these varsity threads!Brings back many(groundcrew)memories of Oakington!Now all you Pilots,after take of or maybe before behind the captains seat there was an electric actuator with two positions which was changed over before/after take off,my memory is a little dim on this ,was it to do with the U/C emergency system?Can someone enlighten me please!!I was standing between pilots on at least two "Glide approachs "and can tell you the first was hair raising for me(wouldnt be now though!)also remember a memorable low level from Waterbeach to Oak via the Bedford levels,must have frightened a few fishermen types!If there is an ex pilot reading this who played football for Oak in 66 against Stradishall I have photos you might like!Name I think was "Bas""Basil?"

[oldpax]

Varsity U/C procedure
Nice reading all these varsity threads!Brings back many(groundcrew)memories of Oakington!Now all you Pilots,after take of or maybe before behind the captains seat there was an electric actuator with two positions which was changed over before/after take off,my memory is a little dim on this ,was it to do with the U/C emergency system?Can someone enlighten me please!!I was standing between pilots on at least two "Glide approachs "and can tell you the first was hair raising for me(wouldnt be now though!)also remember a memorable low level from Waterbeach to Oak via the Bedford levels,must have frightened a few fishermen types!If there is an ex pilot reading this who played football for Oak in 66 against Stradishall I have photos you might like!Name I think was "Bas""Basil?"

[oxenos]

Varsity undercarriage.
As I recall ( long time ago),the gadget you refer to was the u/c hydraulic selector valve. Normally, the pilots used an electric selector button on the instrument panel, which caused an electric actuator to move the valve. If the electrics failed, removing a pip pin disconnected the actuator from the valve. The valve could then be moved to the required position by hand, and locked in that position. It was not normally used by the pilots.
I think it may have been the practice for the ground crew to lock the valve in the down position when the aircraft was not being used. I seem to remember that we had to check that the actuator was connected as part of the before start checks.

[oldpax]

Thanks !There was a wheels up landing about 65 (Oakington),maybe something to do with this?All I can recall is the QFI was quicker away from the aircraft than the (younger)student!!

[tilleydog1]

I was on detachment at Gaydon in 1966 when I had my first experience with the Varsity.

I was invited to go along on a navex with 2ANS, of course I jumped at the chance!

The thing that really sticks in my mind was that the flight seemed to last forever, I felt as though I saw the whole of the UK from the bomb bay! But I loved it!

Just how long did those flights last?

Had a few more trips after that and enjoyed every one.

The crews were always a great bunch of guys and seemed to love flying the Varsity,

Thanks guys for making me feel part of the RAF even though I was only a medic.

[Tankertrashnav]

Just checked my logbook tilleydog. Sortie lengths varied from 3hr55mins to 4hr15, except for the map reading exercises carried out at 500' on the old low-level route, which were shorter. We had two routes, one went out over Wales and the Bristol Channel then down the Irish Sea and back in over the Scillies and Cornwall. Cant for the life of me remember where the other route went, but the choice of route was made after looking at the met. You must have been bored as a passenger, but we were working like one armed paperhangers grappling with the ADF doing 3 position line fixes, or at the bubble sextant at night doing astro fixes. Mine were rarely within 10 miles of where we were - I always found astro a black art which I could never really master. Does anyone anywhere still use it ?

By the way, ONLY a medic? Dont do yourself down, we were all part of the service, with or without wings/brevets on our chests

[bluesilk]

Agreed. I was at Brize in the 70's when I was very glad of the medics, you were just as essential as everybody else. Talking of the Varsity my logbook also tells me we flogged around for 4hours plus and the bubble sextant was a total nightmare. Couldn't keep it still and could see at least a million stars. How on earth anyone shot the right one was a poser. The periscopic sextant changed all that. If the star wasnt between the two red dots you had got your sums wrong. Throughly enjoyed the aircraft though great memories.:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Brian Burridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Burridge)

BB was a flt lt staff pilot on the Varsity when I went through Finningley in '73-'74.

sv

[Tea Planter]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10244654@N00/3529852063/
The attached photo is of three Varsity nav trainers from 1ANS Topcliffe at Idris airfield in Libya in October 1958. Four had set out on an end-of-course overseas navex but one had to divert to Cagliari after almost ditching due to engine failure. The aircraft I was in had to have a complete sparkplug change at Orange which gave us trainee navs plenty of time for sunbaking. As you can see the weather improved markedly the farther one got from Yorkshire. Despite these hiccups, the Varsity was a great leap forward from the Marathons and Valettas we started out on.
TW
Despite many efforts to get the photo displayed, I seem to have failed. The URL is http://www.flickr.com/photos/10244654@N00/3529852063/

[tilleydog1]

Thanks for the reply regarding flight times. I don't ever remember getting bored, much too busy watching the guys at the rear end sweating!

I think the only time I was really bored flying was doing an aeromed flight from Akrotiri to Addis Ababa in a C-130, that was a loooong noisy flight!

I had the pleasure of flying in all of the transport types (except Valleta) during my service and the only one I preferred over the Varsity was the Andover, just something about that aircraft.

[Shackman]

The longest Varsity sortie in my log book was 5:20 out of Machrihanish in the summer of '69 (Ex Strong Gale - an ASW ex in which (IIRC) we spent our time patrolling the North Sea and then returned to Mac!). I was on a refresher prior to MOTU so was 'co-opted' to be co for one of the QFI's on 5FTS.

I must admit I thought the barrel roll incident was later 'cos I remember seeing the ac in the hanger in Jun/Jul 68 with the engines drooping and being told:

1. Never Barrel Roll a Varsity.
2. If you do don't chicken out.
3. If you chicken out don't pull too hard.
4. If you pull too hard own up on recovery (if you recover!).

[India Four Two]

I'm still interested to know what the dome under the aft fuselage is for: http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/333015-vickers-varsity-5.html#post4591073

[opalnut]

Oh this stirred up a few memories! On a freezing cold January morning in 1961 two terrified members of Trenchards finest were introduced to the "Real" RAF outside of Halton. Taff Day and myself were posted to RAF Valley and onto the Varsity Flight. I shall never forget the Chief Techs words of greeting, "Bloody ex apprentices, you know it all so get on and do a major service on that" Thankfully a much more friendly Sargent took us by the hand. They were a very forgiving aeroplane, certainly able to absorb an incredible amount of punishment.
Detached for a season with the Red Pelicans, came back to Valley but on Vampires. Very fond memories of the old girls.

[Tea Planter]

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt111/tonywills/195810Varsitys3of4.jpg

Following on from my earlier entry this month and noting the evident interest in the Varsity's history, I've reattached the photo of 1ANS's Varsitys at Idris using PhotoBucket. Not great resolutionwise but still evocative I hope.
For the afficionados, according to my logbook, Varsitys operating at Topcliffe from June 1958 included WJ895 (A), WL625 (C), WJ905 (D), WL669 (E), WF382 (F), WL637 (G), WJ920 (H) and WJ480 (M).
From the same source, Varsitys operated by Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme during April-July 1959 included WL627 (P), WF334(R), WL624 (U), WL638 (V), WL623 (W) and WL642 (?).

[Pindi]

I was there and I know 'who dunnit' The way it came to light was bizarre !

[taxydual]

Pindi, don't leave us in suspense, reveal all!!

AFAIR, a strong rumour at Finningley in '76 that the last flight of a 6FTS Varsity was rolled by a Flt Lt Harrington? Errington? I cannot remember for certain, but he was a bloody good bloke. There was also a Sqn Ldr UTP who did all the post major airtests (JP's/Doms and Varsity's,) (not Vin Nadin), who was rumoured to have done the dirty deed.


Oh, and what was WJ916's secret? The only airframe I've seen to land, taxy directly into a hangar, then shut down and for that hangar to be point-guarded whilst in there.

[tornadoken]

Wyton Radar Flight /E.W.E.& T.U. "Calibration". Anything to do with Wyton/Signals was hush-hush.

[papajuliet]

taxydual - the Sq/Ldr UTP - could that have been Don Brittain or Dave Clark?

[taxydual]

papajuliet

Sorry, those names don't ring bells ( not as UTP's anyway). No, the guy (who name I cannot for the life of me remember) was a 'senior' Sqn Ldr with Wellington's in one of his (many) log-books.

He also has a very short temper, as I found to my cost, when I couldn't get him Airways Crossing approval for Blue 1 on a continual climb-out off 03 at FY. I was called every name from a cat to a dog over the R/T.

[caped crusader]

IIRC the surname of the UTP back in 76 was Marsh.

Regards

CC

[taxydual]

In a flash of brilliant memory (actually, an old FY mate), the guy I'm thinking of was Sqn Ldr 'Kim' Kimmings.

[kwachon]

This thread brings back many memories for me. I was an apprentice at Cosford 1970-1972 and managed to talk my way into numerous night training flights on the Varsity with my then Flight Commander Flt. Lt. Pete Cox, (wonder where he is now, was a C130 driver on a ground tour).

He seemed to know I wanted to fly and never refused me a flight nor did he ever fail to answer one of my many questions. Wonderful nights looking out at the stars and listening to those mighty pistons doing their work. It was certainly the inspiration that made me want to take up flying at a later date.

Many years later, I had a girlfriend whose brother was killed in one that was going to an airshow, as I recall, it had about 11 folks on board. The inquiry found rotten fuel pump seals as far as I can remember as the cause for the engine failure. If anyone can point me in the right direction where the report can be found I would be most appreciative.

Thanks

KW:ok:

[T-21]

Report here Air Accidents Investigation: 2/1986 G-BDFT (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal_reports/2_1986_g_bdft.cfm)

The first editor of "Flypast" was sadly killed on board . I have every edition of "Flypast".

[Exnomad]

One further memory dragged back, Only tenuous connection with aircraft. At Bishops Court in 1952 there was a Varsity Sgt pilot who was reputed to ex Winco, who had allegedly joined an Ark Royal circuit in a Lincoln, put wheels and flaps down and lined up on finals, whereupon they pushed to Sea Furys over the side. I have no idea whether this was true, but it was a good story.

[WJ897]

The history of WJ897 and the accident which befell it is here http://wj897-lapg.moonfruit.com (http://wj897-lapg.moonfruit.com), along with 5 pages of photos including internal and external. It's the 25th anniversary this year, we've set up this website as a memorial.
As you'll see if you visit we're very short of in-service photographs and in particular reminiscences so please contact us if you have anything you'd like to share.

[Wendimum]

Hi, I'm a new girl on the block, looking for anyone who may remember the night this Varsity crashed and / or anyone who may remember my dad. Crash date 13/03/54 , site Bingham. My thanks to Don Bryans of MACR for this info.

My dad, Sgt George Cheesley was the pilot, sadly all crew were lost.
I was born some 5 months after this so never knew him.
Thanks for your help
Pam/Wendimum

[ian16th]

Just found this thread, so I'm coming in on it late.

My 1st posting, as a still 'under age', but qualified as SAC Air Radar Mechanic, Boy Entrant was to BCBS Lindholme in May 54. I was there until Oct 56 so I spent many hours on and in the beloved Varsity.

One job I remember was when the Holme Moss TV Transmitter opened, it was discovered that it operated on or near the frequency of our Gee-H transmitters! The population of Doncaster could monitor our flights by watching the interference on their shiny new TV sets. So of course the RAF had to change frequencies, not the BBC :bored:

This change was quite involved and included changing the aerials as well as fitting re-tuned transmitters. The fine-tuning of which was done in flight! This meant us working at altitude, swapping the transmitter, which weighed over a hundredweight, wearing an oxygen mask with a portable oxygen bottle stuck down the front of ones battle dress jacket.

What would 'ealth & safety make of it today?

In general I think that most ground tradesmen liked the old 'Pig' as it was a spacious a/c and easy to work on. We had two mixed squadrons at BCBS, the 'other' a/c were Lincoln's and with the Varsity’s being brand new the contrast was great.

One extraordinary thing about the Varsity, it had the most complicated intercom system of any a/c I ever worked on. As a trainer for Pilots, Nav's and Wop's, in each position the instructor could switch the intercom so that he and the student had a 'private circuit' that couldn't be heard by and distract the other crew members.

This intercom used numerous '102 Relays', in general it was a reliable system, but when it did go wrong, problem determination was a bit complicated and often needed a engine ground run to produce some vibration and the intercom fault condition. The Engine Fitter’s seemed to enjoy this.:ok: I remember having to fly on a sortie on one occasion because the problem could not be replicated, even with engine runs.

At least we ground crew had that option available to us on Varsity's, a luxury not open to me in later years on Canberra's and V-Bombers. I always hated putting the infamous 'Ground Tested Found Serviceable' into a F700. I knew that the aircrew weren’t idiots and something had gone wrong.

As to colour schemes, I don’t remember any day-glow on the Lindholme a/c during my time there. This could just be the result of my advancing years.

In '58 at Orange, France, with the move of the RAF Liaison Party from Istres, I installed a Eureka VII, a Watton Varsity calibrated this and I flew on the calibration flights to see how 'my Eureka' performed. Its performance was compromised by the 'shadow' created by Mont Ventoux! It wasn't anything I could fix :)

Please excuse this old man’s rambling.

[Adrian Selway]

Hello Tim,
Excuse my writing to you 'Out of the Blue' as it were. I am Don Selway's youngest brother Adrian. I remember his Varsity well and visited it many times when we went to Barrington on family visits. He fought hard to keep the Duxford Aviation Society on its feet and running well and to get Concord on to the field at Duxford even though the runway had already been shortened. He loved his Varsity, used to call it 'Piglet'. I have several photos of it and one signed by all the crew. Sadly the plane was badly damaged in the 'Great Storm' that swept across southern parts; the wind was so high the plane was lifted and the tail was swept against a mooring post suffering serious damage.
Brother Don was a great chap and a very good artist specializing in aviation and wild-life.
I hope this provides a little more information for your forum.

Regards,

Adrian

[Wander00]

I recall being in thick fog going north on the A15 (yup: Cranwell-Lincoln for the evening (and night if lucky!)) when we were amazed to be stopped by the traffic lights that protected the Waddo undershoot - and even more amazed when out of the fog rumbled a Varsity - but all expained by th "Blind Landing Experimental Unit (may have been B.L.E.U.) - its 45 years ago

[bernie2]

Worked on Varsitys at Saint Mawgan on Station Flight. WF330 was one, can't remember the other. They were not there simultaneously. I enjoyed working on them as an Airframe mechanic and fitter. Quite a few times flew with them to places such as Langar and Thorney Island, sometimes in the bomb aimer's position and some times up front, holding throttles forward on take off. A real lady to be in. Ours was VIP for AOC 19 Group.

[WJ897]

Today marked the 25th anniversary of the loss of WJ897 along with 11 out of the 14 on board. A number of relatives and friends gathered at the site to mark the occasion. The local TV news showed a brief clip of the Varsity in flight at an unidentified airshow as part of their coverage of the event.
We'll be posting photos and new links to the website as soon as we can.

[Tim McLelland]

Nice to hear from you Adrian. Don and his beloved Varsity were a great loss. It was a real pleasure to see him throw the old girl around the sky at Old Warden - he performed with much more gusto than any of the RAF demonstrations I saw and it was nice to see that the lumbering old varsity was a sprightly performer in the right hands.

It's a great shame that the aircraft was damaged at Duxford and particularly sad that it has often been almost overlooked there - especially when the beautiful MRF aircraft was shamelessly destroyed (a crime that I will always curse Duxford for). I keep my fingers crossed that I'll get a winning Lottery ticket one day and fulfil my ambition to get one of the surviving old beasts rebuilt into flying trim!

[T-21]

Good cutaway drawing of the Varsity here flight aircrew | aircrew trainer | dunlop mk | 1950 | 0624 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1950/1950%20-%200624.html)

[labman1001]

Hi Folks,

I just found the site tonight after googling for Varsity, I remember flying in these lovely old planes for air experience flights at RAF Finningly in 1972 with the ATC we had two flights which lasted a good few hours eaxg as we went up the east coast to Aberdeen over to Inverness and back down the west coast, the pilot even detoured to take us over our home town of Coatbridge :), I'd always fancied skydiving but seeing how small everything looked from 10,000 feet made me change my mind for some reason, previously the highest I'd been would have 2 or 3,000 feet in the Chipmunks at RAF Turnhouse :).

Looking at the pictures of the Varsities on here one thing seems to be missing from the parled aircraft and that's a stand under the tail to support it on the ground.... IIRC all the Varsities at Finningly had them as the tail dropped when you went into the fusealage as the C of G was forward of the main wing spar, you had to let the pilot know when airborne if you where crossing over to the rear of the aircraft or coming back as it had an effect on the handling :bored: I also seem to remember that the spar got fairly hot...

I was only sad that I never got a flight in the Domminies based at Finningly but that privellage was reserved for the senior cadets....

Peter

[Tankertrashnav]

a stand under the tail to support it on the ground.... IIRC all the Varsities at Finningly had them as the tail dropped when you went into the fusealage as the C of G was forward of the main wing spar,


We did without stands at Gaydon, just made sure that as each crew member entered the aircraft he moved forward of the main spar. Inevitably the odd one sat on its tail from time to time but I never saw it happen. We never had much time to move about the aircraft in flight, busy as we were scribbling away furiously as we got to grips with 3 position-line fixing. The astrodome was certainly forward of the spar - not sure about the drift sight though - it's a long time ago!

[avionic type]

The tale I heard was Dizzy Addicot Vickers test pilot , flew a Valliant with flaps and wheels down lined up onto our latest carrier of the time in the Bay of Biscay panic ensued and he got a terse radio recall from Vickers and a subsequent "flying gear off tie and jacket and shoes on No coffee meeting " also recall walking from the inner to the outer aircraft stands in front of now terminal 2 in thick fog at L.H.R. in the early 60s got half way across when the throb of piston engines were heard and the Smiths Experimental Blind Landing Varsity trundled past ,it was the only a/c that moved that day and they had free use to carry out blind landings on the runway.The fog was so thick it wasn't safe to drive our vans

[Legionaire]

I hitched a lift in the 23 mu varsity from Aldergrove to Leeming in 1974
after a tour on v.s.a.f. I seem to remember that not long after that flight
she was flown to Germany for fire crew training. She also appeared on the
front cover of Air Clues for, I thought,her being the last varsity in service?

Anyway that was the best and most entertainig flight I have ever had for
several reasons!!!! (rhubarb rhubarb) (pie!)

Thanks for the memories from one happy airman.

[Legionaire]

papajuliet

Could that be the same Sqdn Ldr Clarke who flew me back to Leeming from Aldergrove in '74/ He was a Flt Lt then. The nav' was a Scot whose name escapes me. (see my earlier thread)

[Pom Pax]

Mention has been made of ease of tipping Varsities, I believe it is being confused with the Handley Page Marathon. Nearest I came to tipping a Varsity was 8 aft and only the captain forward and didn't he swear at us when the nose wheel lifted. It went down again with quite a thump as we scattered away from the door.

[Been Accounting]

Two varsity memories:

An aircraft overrunning the road at Little Rissington ... around 1970-73

and ...

when my father was involved in the delivery to Duxford.

[Cornish Jack]

Pom Pax - dead right!!
Apart from that peculiarity, the Marathon had a general C of G problem such that it carried bags of sand under the pilot's seats. :uhoh:Even so, it flew very tail down in the cruise. Its 'best' feature was the 'confusability' of the flap and gear levers leading to several gear retractions while on the ground. This, if nothing else, lead to its relatively short in-service life.:D
Apologies for thread creep.

[Yellow Sun]

Nearest I came to tipping a Varsity was 8 aft and only the captain forward and didn't he swear at us when the nose wheel lifted.

It was the navigator training aircraft fitted with Green Satin that had the greatest propensity to lift the nosewheel whilst parked. The other fits were not too bad.

YS

[Proplinerman]

Here's the one they've got at Brooklands, apparently in very good condition and I managed to visit on a nice sunny day to take my photo.

JetPhotos.Net Photo » WF372 (CN: 531) United Kingdom - Royal Air Force (RAF) Vickers Varsity T.1 by Michael Blank (http://tinyurl.com/yh4bmmw)

Also, some time in the very early 1970s, what I took to be a Varsity, flew over my parents' home in south M/C, with, I'm pretty sure, the serial WJ462. However, when I looked this up just now in "British Military Aircraft Serials 1911-1971," Ian Allan, it is identified as a Valetta, which I would have thought were all out of service by then. Anyone know?

[Amos Keeto]

Think you must either have the date wrong or mis-read the serial, as WJ462 was indeed a Valetta and was withdrawn from use in April 1968. The only Valetta that was still flying in the early '70s was WJ491 with A&AEE and that last flew in April 1972.

[Proplinerman]

Thanks for that and I must have got the serial wrong, as I'm sure it was later than April 1971, when I began planespotting.

[Ramshornvortex]

An aircraft overrunning the road at Little Rissington ... around 1970-73

That would be WF411 December 1973 according to some slides that I took as a teenager living at Rissie quaintly entitled 'The Dead Varsity'. I seem to remember that it wasn't too long before one of the then brand new Jetstreams came to a messy end in the same field at Little Rissington. Nobody seriously hurt in either incident, thankfully.

[Herod]

IIRC the Jetstream in the early days had a problem with the fuel cocks vibrating shut. The incident you mention involved a double engine shutdown just after takeoff, and the aircraft proceeded to demolish a couple of stone walls as it made its way along the adjacent field. Any more info anyone?

[critter592]

The anniversary of the crash of this aircraft is approaching.

In addition to Wendimum's post (http://www.pprune.org/4982630-post145.html), I would like to repeat the request made therein - If any of you fine ladies or gentlemen out there knew Sergeant George Cheesley, or his crew, Sergeant Peter Leach, Sergeant Louis Herbert, or Pilot Officer Michael Clarke from your days at Swinderby, please feel free to PM me. Thank you.

I have a page on my Website for this aircraft, you can view it here (http://macr.moonfruit.com/#/varsity-wf327/4522249429).



Don Bryans

Midlands Air Crash Research (http://macr.moonfruit.com)

"Lest We Forget"

[KipperMac]

Ramshornvortex (http://www.pprune.org/members/162388-ramshornvortex) I was a young urk (know as Kipper) serving at Rissie (1970-1976) at the time and was present for both the events that you mention. I actually watched the first happen and was having a sandwich in the crew room when the second event took place. Sad times for the A/C's but as was said, no one was hurt.
I served at Rissie untill the fat lady sang and they put the lights out.
I didn't know it at the time but they were the best days of my life.
I was totaly crushed when they closed the camp. As a young urk, it never crossed my mind that such a thing would ever happen.
I am at the other end of life now and much wiser.
The Jetstream's had just been grounded for the reason Herod mentions. Astazu engines had a vibration problem and it was found that this caused a fuel valve to close in the center section of the wings. The Jetstream A/C was returning to base after the grounding message.
Murphy's law again.
The Varsity was another story.:eek:
We knew the A/C as the Flying Pig. It looked like one from certain angles and on touch down, the brakes squealed like one. I loved the sound of those Hercules especially when just starting up.
I went on to serve at R.A.F. Lyneham for three years and then left the service. I would be glad to hear from anyone who knew me in those times.
Sorry for any typos but my eyes are sadly giving up on me these days.
Kind reguards to all.

[Russruspy]

My only experience of the Varsity was an air experience flight from Stradishall when I was in the ATC in the 60s. Oddly I am now helping to restore that very aircraft at Brooklands museum. If anybody out there can help with a picture of a monitor for the Rebecca system that looks a bit like a telescope poking out of the nav station, I would be grateful. There is currently a replica device labelled as such made from an old plastic milk bottle!

[ZH875]

There are a few pictures of Rebecca screens on this page:

EW - Eureka/Rebecca (http://www.qsl.net/pe1ngz/airforce/airforce-raf/raf-eureka-rebecca.html)

ZH

[ian16th]

I remember seeing a Rebecca IV at one of the RAF Museums, sorry I can't remember whether it was Cosford or Hendon.

I remember thinking that after they put the stuff I worked on into a museum, next they'd put me in one :}

[Pom Pax]

Russruspy if I recall correctly the unit shown as Indicator BC 929 in ZH875's link resembles the unit fitted to the nav. trainers. Except I think our scales were 12, 60,120 n.m and there was a knob for selecting channels (6 may even 8 of them). The unit was mounted flush in the nav. panel and what you are describing as "a bit like a telescope poking out" is the anti glare shield. A tube fitted over the crt display with a shaped end to stick your forehead on with a cut out for one's nose. This end had some sorbo rubber on it. The thing looking like a megaphone with a rectangular open end.

Edited to add that on the NF(T) 10 Vampire this hood was normally detached from the unit for stowage. But I can't find a picture of this either.

[Prangster]

Remember reading various commentaries and accounts of Varsarsity, wherein both studes and intructors scribbled everything form thier darkest thoughts to astute observation about how not to aviate. the 'book' was kept in an Oakington crew room approx early 80's and I always wondered what became of it. My own Varsarsity moment came at Manby sitting in the jump seat as a student Air Commodore wrestled a reluctant pig round the circuit. As we squealed to a shuddering halt on what should have been a roller the instructor ( Master Pilot) Smiled wanly and intoned 'Now I would like to see a normal circuit' I only just caught big sirs muttered response 'So would I cock so would I' Quite how I stiflled the giggles I'll never know. Twas only after our final landing did I realise that big sir had somehow defied gravity by flying the thing at less than the headlined stalling speed.

[Waddo Liney]

I well remember the Varsitys and Vallettas while stationed at Cranwell as a young erk, in the early sixties. I didn't work on them, being on one of the Vampire squadrons, but was able to wangle a lift to Ballykelly once, when going home on leave. I think it was on one of the Vallettas. Before boarding, I was none too politely cautioned that the AOC's secretary, Miss Somebody-Or-Other, was also going to be flying as a passenger, and that I was to be on my best behaviour and treat her respectfully. I expected her to be some straight-laced, flinty spinster, but was pleasantly surprised to find that she was a lovely homely lady, and very easy to get along with:). We landed at Aldergrove to let her off and then continued on to BK. I enjoyed the flight, spending most of the Aldergrove-Ballykelly leg standing between the pilot's seats watching what was going on, especially during the letdown and approach into Ballykelly. From there it was no problem to hitch a lift to my home town of Coleraine. The whole trip probably took about 2 hours tops, which sure beat the heck out of the long train journey to Heysham and then the overnight boat to Belfast.
The next time I came across Varsitys was during a brief tour at Labuan in 1966. Does anyone else recall Varsitys at Labuan? As at Cranwell, the aircrew there were all Master Pilots or SNCO's. I worked on them at Labuan, but seem to recall that there were only two, and most of my time was taken up with the twin and single Pioneers of 209 Squadron.
I also remember the buzz at Cranwell when a groundcrew erk walked into a spinning Varsity prop, when he was seeing it off on a night sortie. Sadly, he didn't make it out the other side:sad:.

[huntert7]

First post - been lurking on this forum for some time!
Growing up in rural Norfolk, I well remember the Varsity's from Stradishall (particularly at night when they used to rumble over the house on navex's keeping a certain young schoolboy awake). I was very lucky as an Air Cadet to get a trip in a 115 squadron Varsity from RAF Watton on an ILS calibration sortie so I've had something of a soft spot for the aeroplane ever since. Slight thread creep - but I also remember the Meteor NF(T)14,s based at Stradishall flying at what seemed very low level. Any ex instuctors or navs on here who are willing to share their memories? All this probably helped to fuel my interest in military aviation, especially all things "dayglo".

[Proplinerman]

And here's a link to a photo I took quite a few years ago of the Varsity preserved at Cosford-in very nice condition and in that very attractive RAE livery:

ScanImage4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5324614838/)

[Proplinerman]

And here's how the Varsity at Brooklands looked in 2001:

ScanImage1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5072618735/)

And the one at Duxford, recently:

DSC_0070 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4932535684/)

And one preserved at Newark:

Varsity side on | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4931941893/)

And how the Varsity at Brooklands looked in 2009-quite different to the shot above:

DSC_0264 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/4869407660/)

[Herod]

Lovely job of restoration. Hats off to Brooklands.

[norwich]

An update to Proplinermans supurb photo display .... WF369 at Newark .... A few photos from my recent visit to an aerojumble at Newark, and another supurb preservation job I think ..... Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/DSC_0071-1.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/DSC_0074-1.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/DSC_0212.jpg

[T-21]

Proplinerman and Norwich,
Thanks for the great photos I think WF369 is the best kept Varsity in the country and it was a visit and look inside this machine that started this thread . The aircraft has an aroma on stepping into the machine after some 38 years it just took me straight back to my 6 flights in them.

[Proplinerman]

I'm very pleased to see that Newark have moved the Varsity indoors since I took my photo of it some years ago and isn't she looking great! A real credit to the museum.

[Loki]

I see the Duxford example has already been posted, but what the heck?

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/loki_021/forafrica/vicvadu2906.jpg

[Jeff Glasser]

What a great thread, just read through it and thought I must add my little anecdote which I still find embarressing to this day.
It was as an air cadet on summer camp at R.A.F. Oakington in 1963 or '64. (some Japanese singer was singing the olympics song in the n.a.a.f.i. all the time)
Myself and another cadet were lucky enough to get some flying doing circuits at a nearby airfield (Gravely?) Anyway we sat quietly in the rear and I was quite happy until I needed a pee. This should'nt have been a problem, but my friend told me that as if I got up to go to the toilet I would upset the C.of G. and we'd probably pull a loop, crash, and all die and it would be my fault. I held on thinking that after every 'touch and go' we'd go back to Oakington and blessed relief.
After half an hour of this I was in agony and my friend creased up with laughter. He also said the C.of G. problem would also manifest itself if I went forward to mention my predicament to the flight crew up front! They were very busy anyway.
Well, you can guess that a skinny air cadet can only hang onto a large amount of lemonade, tea, or whatever for just so long so I had to go, all over the seat, me and the floor!! My friend at this stage was crying with laughter! (I would have done the same to him)
When we finaly returned to Oakington, I thought I might get away with this if out of politeness I sat in my seat and let instructor and student go out first they would'nt notice, but no, the instructor was'nt going to leave two air cadets in his aeroplane un chaperoned and gestured for us to leave, whereupon my secret was out.
He never spoke, but the look of utter contempt stayed with me, I can still see him now.
Sorry to whoever had to clean it up, better than vomit though I suppose!
I do'nt have a serial number for the aircraft, only that it 'N' November on the fin,

Jeff

[T-21]

Hello Jeff,
5 FTS had Varsities coded "N" WF414,WJ942 and WL630.

[Jeff Glasser]

Thanks T-21, so I could have trashed any one of them!!!

Jeff

[langleybaston]

I think it was at Topcliffe that we had Varsities that did the Maccrihanish Kipper run, and supported the V Force dispersals? Correct me if one of the Met men misremembers! The Squadron Leader was Tommy Tucker [marvellously couth and impeccably dressed], and two of the captains were among our last remaining Poles, universally known as Flt Lt ****slinger and M Pilot Smackyerarse, as near as anyone could get to their names, more like an optician's chart than a name.

It was at Topcliffe 1966-ish that I made a good stab at disorientating a JP captain from Leeming. I was on det. from Leeming, he landed at Topcliffe and subsequently rang Met. I forgot where I was, and said "duty forecaster Leeming" just as the book said I should. The captain recognised my voice, we had a laugh and a quick brief, and I put the phone down. An hour later he rang from Leeming and said it was not until he was in the cockpit that he realised where he was. Unusual case of disorientation.

One of my colleagues was Effing George, [known as such by all] famously foul-mouthed, with a five year old son going the same way who could shame a sailor with his invective. I never heard the like for range, inventiveness, and the sheer breathtaking ratio of cussing to normal language.

One observer, on solitary weekend night duty, was briefly arrested by the RAF plod [with dog] who took him for a tramp trespasser, wrapped as he was in a filthy raincoat and wearing a balaclava, dozing in the office crouched over a radiator.

Met. was so busy providing a bespoke service to each aircraft [those were the days of proper service] in the big small hours [0500 onwards] that we had a double-manned forecaster watch from 0600. This meant the 0500 man getting out of his scratcher around 0400 [nobody was on base] and the 0600 man an hour earlier. Not funny in winter, as I recall.

[Old Bricks]

I think that the last of the 23 MU Varsities is held in the outdoor museum at the eastern end of Tegel Airport in Berlin. Very visible from outside the fence, althought it does look a bit worn.

[Russruspy]

Flew in this one as an ATC cadet at Stradishall mid 60s (tail A at that time) Now play with it as a volunteer at Brooklands. There is a film on Youtube of the Cosford Varsity making its final flight in 99 and passing over WF372 as a tribute.

Currently refitting the analogue bombing computer back in 372.

[Russruspy]

Anyone out there with knowledge of the bomb aiming eqipment on the Varsity? I am currently working on WF372. Have fitted the correct Sperry Sight and the computer but have not managed to get clear details of the bomb aimers panel/bomb distribution panel. :ugh:

[Tea Planter]

Hi, Russruspy.
I trained on Varsitys at Bomber Command Bombing School, Lindholme in 1959 (see earlier post 18 May 2009). The equipment was a WW2 vintage Mk14 bombsight with a 12/24 bomb selector panel located on the left of the bomb-aimer's prone position. We also used Gee H for radar bombing. All very entertaining but I'm glad the Cold War never turned hot with that stuff.

[Russruspy]

Hi Tea Planter, thanks for the reply. From the manual diagrams we have it shows the analogue computer above left of the prone position and the bomb selecting panel in the bulkhead racks above the windows. Was it different in you config? I have fitted the computer in the indicated position (connects with pitot head etc) and the Mk 14 sight is now in place, its the selector panel that still has us uncertain.

I could get some pictures to you if that would help.

Thanks again.

Russ

[Russruspy]

Hi Folks. Anybody out there can enlighten me as to which style of Aldis/signal lamp was carried on the Varsity? On the one I work with there is a felt lined position for an Aldis with the standard 2pin socket on the other side of the Nav desk. But which sort. Was it the type with the banana handle as carried WW2 period or the later type that had clip on colour filters? Could it be either?

Cheers

Russ Palmer

[Russruspy]

Anybody have any details/dimensions of the practise bombs as used in the Varsity? WF372 still has the electrical blocks and carrier beams in the bombay and we are interested to get details of the projectiles. Picture links especially helpful.

[brokenlink]

Anyone an idea of what the future holds in store for the Duxford Varsity? Been inside for some while now presumably to dry out. Believe it was included in the recent Disposals Tender? Seems strange seeing as how they flew from both Oakington and Waterbeach.

[Russruspy]

My information is that the Duxford Varsity will only be disposed of as a whole airframe and not broken. It seems VERY shortsighted of the IWM as this was the mainstay of crew training between WW2 and the mid 70s - a direct descendant of the Wellington. Many hundreds if not thousands of RAF crew trained on the type and there are now only 5 or 6 left of the 163 built. It appears it is just not sexy enough for the IWM and suggests they are more interested in visitor appeal than aviation history.

[brokenlink]

Thanks for that, agree IWM do not exactly have a great record on this type of airframe. Be nice is a group took it on to conserve/restore where it was provided it stayed under cover.

[India Four Two]

I posted this question earlier and never did get an answer.

What's the dome under the rear fuselage?
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WJ911-XVarsityT1RAF115SqnLYN12JUL68.jpg

Picture from Amos Keeto's post 83.

[T-21]

Picture and snippet of info here. Unusual Aircraft (http://www.spyflight.co.uk/unus.htm)

[ian16th]

Russruspy,

I worked on the Varsity's at Lindholme from 1954-56 as a Radar fitter, so I'm not the expert on the bombs used.

But they were always referred to as '25lb smoke & flash'.

I hope that this helps.

[Dengue_Dude]

The flash and smoke 25 lb practice bomb probably hasn't changed for many years.

I can probably get some detail on the 'modern' ones - or, more to the point, the same design. PM if interested.

I trained as an FE on Varsity, one of mine is in Doncaster Museum, seems strange that . . . mind you, my best blue uniform is there as well :O

[India Four Two]

T-21,
Thanks for the link. Since WJ911 was used for SIGINT training, could the dome hold a rotating aerial, similar to an ALQ-78 ESM pod?

Picture here: http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/483469-whats-underwing-store-p3.html

[Non Emmett]

St. Mawgan Station Flight:

I joined the Royal Observer Corps in Cornwall in 1957 and on New Years Day 1958 had my first flight in a RAF aircraft aboard a Shackleton MR.2 of 228 Sq., pilot was Wing Commander Graham and on May 14th we had a ROC Cluster Meeting at St. Mawgan and flew aboard Varsity WL670. This was the first of several flights I enjoyed with this aircraft, subsequent flights being mostly on a Wednesday afternoon arranged at short notice by my indomitable Chief Observer who had a wonderful habit of totally ignoring official channels,

We were almost always taken aloft by a Polish Master Pilot and invariably asked where do you want to go ! On subsequent Cluster Meeting flights at times the going got a little "interesting" and the reason was usually that my C/Obs was by then at the controls !

Happy days and thanks to the ROC and RAF I later got the opportunity to fly on all marks of Shack, Argosy, Anson, Comet 2, Hercules.

[middlesbrough]

Flew in the Varsity during my nav training at Hullavington 1963-1965. My uncle Flt Lt Geoff Walker AFC flew Varsities on 115 Sqn at Watton 1963-1966 and again 1966-1969. He sadly passed on 20 May this year, after a short illness. Aged 90. RIP

[Pontius Navigator]

The bombs used on the Varsity were indeed the 25lb Smoke and Flash. There were, IIRC, two tail types. One had a simple cruciform shape which was prone to damage, remember they were offloaded if not previously dropped. The other had I think 6 blades inside a cylindrical sleeve. If you write to OC RAF Pembrey Sands he should be able to help with size etc and provide photographs.

The 25lb PB was pretty similar in appearance to the US BDU-33 which weighs about 31lb. If you wanted a close look-a-like then an approach to RAF Lakenheath might be helpful. There are any number at the RAF bombing ranges but more are blown open for safety reasons and the tails are always bent on impact.

[Wander00]

I remeber Geoff on 115 when I was baby pilot on 360, 66-69. Don't think I flew with him but did blag a couple of Varsity trips.

[Tea Planter]

Hi, Russruspy.
Sorry about the gross delay in replying.
The set-up I described is as I remember it, but after all these years, I could be wrong. The bomb-sight was controlled by the left hand and the bomb release button was held in the right. I seem to remember that the selector box was located left, slightly high and back a bit, and one had to twist around to get to it.
Visual bombing at 18,000ft from the Varsity was great fun, especially when there were Hunters doing ground attack practice in the same airspace.
Cheers,
Tea Planter

[Nopax,thanx]

Vis-a-vis Duxford's WJ945, she is currently being dimsantled by my old mate Barry Parkhouse for a trip to Cornwall. She is going to join Mike Collett's collection at Newquay where the old lady will undoubtedly get the attention that she's sorely needed for so many years. Piccies here;

PlaneTalk • View topic - Varsity WJ945 @ Duxford - 21Sep12 (http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10932)

[Prangster]

I recall being highly amused by the line shooters bible in the OCU crewroom at Oakington and always wondered what happened to it when the rusty axe fell. If any of you guys have it secreted in the loft/garage/shed would you consider handing it over to a reputable museum, Newark springs to mind (there are some that aren't)

[JW411]

http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/Valley.jpg

Sorry; I meant to post this on Christmas Day but forgot (I blame the Speckled Hen). 4 FTS Valley, 1961 taken by one of my course mates (Colin Williams I think).

[T-21]

Thanks JW411 nice shot in the early fluorescent paint scheme. WL629/G ended on the Catterick dump in 1974. Other aircraft with 4 FTS were WJ921/C,WJ917/B,WL623/K,WJ939/? 4 FTS used the Varsity from 1960 at Valley does anyone know when they stopped flying the Varsity at Valley ?

[T-21]

Very good article by Ben Dunnell in the last copy of "Classic Aircraft" magazine for Dec 2012, nice flying shot in colour of WJ918 of the RAF College Cranwell in 1969. In 1970 I flew in her on a 4hrs 25 min navex over Scotland with an overshoot at Leeming . Really enjoyed my ATC trips in the pig.

[JW411]

I flew the following at 4 FTS: WF326, WJ912, 917, 920, 921, WL623, 628, 629, 631, 635 and 670.

I'm surprised you don't know it already but the 4 FTS Varsities moved to Oakington in March 1962 to become 5 FTS. I went with them.

[JW411]

Somebody asked; the course number was 11 V/V Course and remained so when we got to Oakington.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tea Planter, 18,000 feet was going some. Why that high? I recall bombing at around 4,000 feet. Looked at my log book to see that 4 flights were all DNCO with low cloud and we even flogged across to Jurby to get good viz.

[Basil]

RAF Oakington Ford Anglia 1967 :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/RAFOakingtonVarsity1967.jpg

[KING6024]

In about 1957/8 as a teenager I spent some time spotting at Oakington having cycled from Watford via several other airfields including Duxford and Waterbeach,I can remember quite busy Varsity activity but what puzzled me was why there were I think 2 Washingtons parked outside the hangars.I'm sure someone will know why.
Colin.

[Ron Cake]

JW411

....great to see your winter photo from Valley.

For anyone interested, there were 11 Varsitys on the strength of 4 FTS in early 1961 They were:

WL 670 'A' - WJ 917 'B' - WJ 921 'C' - WF 326 'D' - WJ 912 'E' - WL 631 'F' - WL 629 'G' - WL 635 'H' - WL 628 'J' - WL 623 'K' - WF 427 (code n/k)

As was mentioned earlier, all were transferred to 5 FTS Oakington in March 1962 with the exception of WF 427 which was allocated to CNCS Shawbury in Mar 61

[JW411]

Basil:

Why is the starboard prop feathered? Is there a story?

[T-21]

Regarding the nice Oakington colour photograph believe the aircraft is WF325 coded "Y". Thanks to everybody for contributing to this site,amazed how popular the Varsity is and what a splendid work horse to the RAF.

King6024 Do you mean RAF Watton ? they too had Varsities and the last Washingtons in service. Google RAF Watton and there is a section on B-29 use there.

[ian16th]

amazed how popular the Varsity is and what a splendid work horse It was very easy to work on, there was plenty of space around everything.

My only criticism of the Varsity, it had the most complicated Intercom, all those bl**dy Type 102 relays, of any a/c I worked on in my 13 years.

[Basil]

JW411,
Why is the starboard prop feathered? Is there a story?
Well spotted!
* Blind reindeer on that one.

* No idea (Christmas cracker joke) :O

[JW411]

Dead Blind Reindeer; Still No Idea.

[Herod]

Missing Wildebeests? No gnus?

[T-21]

Happy New Year to all Varsitians . Would welcome a PDF or copy of the Pilots Notes for the Varsity if somebody could post on here ?

[johnfairr]

First of many trips in the Varsity must have been around 1966, when I was a cadet in the school CCF. Annual camp to RAF Gaydon, then the home of basic navigator training.

I was told to report to Flying Clothing to get kitted out and then sat patiently waiting to be picked up by transport to the aeroplane. I was detailed to carry a large tin container, which I duly lugged aboard the Varsity.

I sat on one of the seats, can't remember where, but after about 45 minutes into a four hour slog to Ullapool and back, I was instructed to delve into the tin container and produce five cups of coffee. "Please sir, where are the cups?"

"No cups, laddie, there is a bunch of polystyrene beakers with the rations", said a hairy Signaller.

:\:\ GULP :\:\ "Nnnnnnn - Noooo there isn't sir, I think they are still in Flying Clothing, I was only told to carry the tin, sir!"

Signaller looks at me as if I am the most stupid cadet ever to don uniform (10/10 for observation) and produces a knife!!!! By now I am quaking in my shoes. He looks at me, crooks his finger, and beckons me forward towards the cockpit. My legs just about carry me the few paces to behind the pilots seats, whereupon he reaches up, and using the knife as a screw-driver, proceeds to remove the glass light fitting, which is shaped in the form of a half globe with just enough capacity to hold a slurp of coffee.

I spent the next 20 minutes ferrying coffee around the crew, careful not to spill any on the maps, charts, APs , nav-bags etc.

The debrief was interesting . . . . . .

[India Four Two]

Missing Wildebeests? No gnus?

Herod, That is the worst joke of the year, so far. :)

However, I don't get the "blind reindeer" reference. Anyone care to explain?

[DaveReidUK]

However, I don't get the "blind reindeer" reference. Anyone care to explain?

That's an even worse pun - re-read posts #219 and #220.

[Lordflasheart]

Santa's about to Launch - his one sector per year. Bloke jumps onto the sleigh, says "I'm an FAA Flight Inspector – this is a check ride."

Santa says - "What's the shotgun for ?" .....

[India Four Two]

Inspector - "You're going to lose an engine after V1."

[Lordflasheart]

Quite so, I-42. You've passed.

Apologies for the low quality thread creep. I blame the Rượu thuốc at New Year. LFH

[India Four Two]

Rượu thuốc

Trời ơi!:cool:

[Rigex]

I found myself posted to 115 Sqdn at Cottesmore when the "other" V-Force went to Cyprus and left me behind. Vulcan to Varsity in a couple of weeks! Initially, one felt somewhat miffed, 2 doses of Vulcans with a tour in 2TAF in between and then propellers and AVGAS!

'Kinell! :uhoh:

However I soon got quite attached to the "Pigs", gently grunting their way around the taxi-ways, freely dispensing oil (OMD 370??) on all and sundry. At that time 115 still had a good few Varsitys, being in the process of upgrading to Wheelbarrows.

Lots of fond (?) memories, both in the air and on the ground, including;

The occasion when one of our riggers (name withheld) mistakenly connected the ground air bottles supply to charge the radiator cowls (450 psi ?) to the filling point for the hydraulic reservoir (connections the same size and adjacent) resulting in the contents of said reservoir vapourising through the vent in the reservoir cap (thank Mr. Vickers that it had one) and filling the fuselage with a surreal pink OM-15 mist (like a Boeing roll-out ceremony, but 20 years ahead!).

Or when airborne (as rigger/looker-afterer of said flying machine) getting struck by lightning somewhere over the alps on the way to Luqa from Cott. (about 11 hrs with a refuel at Nice) amazingly impressive flash and matching bang which had me running forward from my seat at te rear to enquire of the driver as to our continued airworthiness (all OK - confirmed by a good look-over at Nice). Just as well, I recall my bale-out procedure involved donning the harness (in a bag on the floor by my side) collecting and attaching the 'chute (stowed "forrad" behind the pilots) returning aft and going out throught the entrance door, remembering to roll/somersault out to avoid denting the tailplane with me 'ead.

On the return flight, seeing the pilot wind open the triangular window at his side and throw the remains of his (fairly disgusting) in-flight sarnie out - somewhere over the med...

Or the occasion when we got a call to say that one had "done a wheels-up landing but he's OK and returning"!! Turned out that he was on approach (forget where - Shawbury?) and a JP had taxied onto the runway, the Varsity had initiated a go-around (wheels up etc) only to see the JP go across the runway and clear it. End effect was that our man recommenced the approach, forgetting the wheels. The aircraft actually contacted the runway (at the back of the "pannier/bomb bay) as the crew realised and opened up. They then landed for a look-see, minor damage to the fuselage and a broken downward ident light was the result. They then declared themselves fit to return home, hence the phone call. We reckoned there was about a foot-and-a-half between the prop tips and concrete as it lurched back into the air - close enough!

WJ 911 was a mystery to us all....it had all sorts of special racks installed which held strange kit, some of which was removed on landing and taken away by unknown persons (some in civilian clobber) who flew in it. I remember its door was secured with a SPECIAL Chubb padlock ( hardened steel, 1 : 10,000,000 key or similar) which was inserted through two alloy brackets firmly secured to the fuselage by 3 or 4 pop rivets. It did lots of multi-day "Navex's" and seemed to be attracted to Gatow...

For anyone interested, here's a list of 115's Varsitys mid 1969:
WF383, WJ911, WJ946, WL622, WL636, WL678, WL685, WL692.

Here are some Varsity pics dragged out from my old slides (please excuse the scratches/general quality and possible non-appearance!);


http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/rigex1/PICT0008b_zps36ceb291.jpg

"X" at Wittering 1975/76


http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/rigex1/PICT0002b_zpsac2c77d2.jpg

WL 692, landing at El Adem 1967 with the only tree for miles!


http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/rigex1/PICT0009b_zps3fd86068.jpg

WL 692, El Adem 1967 - proving it wasn't the slowest thing there.


http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/rigex1/PICT0009bb_zpsb3729b40.jpg

WF 382 at Wittering 1977


http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/rigex1/PICT0001a_zpsa0d7babd.jpg

WF 379 Wittering 1976



Rigex

[Wander00]

One of my last jobs in my first RAF career was (under the supervison of OC Admin) writing the Op Order to move 360, 98 and 115 from Watton to Cottesmore.

[Rigex]

Typical posting logic, there I was, only recently returned from a tour on 213 Sqdn (Canberra B(I)6) left aircraftless - see prev. post, and 2 sqdns Canberra + 1 Canberra OCU + 115 Sqdn. arrive at Cott...where do I get sent? Correct! 115 Sqdn, Varsitys and Argosys...I suppose there was a logic somewhere...?

[Proplinerman]

Anyone know what the modified nose on WF379 was for?

[Rigex]

According to here;

File:Vickers 668 Varsity T1 (WF379 (cn 538)).jpg - Wikimedia Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vickers_668_Varsity_T1_%28WF379_%28cn_538%29%29.jpg)

- it was "Experimental AI radar"

[Proplinerman]

Thanks for that Rigex. Shame it was scrapped as late as 1984-it should have been preserved, in my view.

[JW411]

http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/wings.jpg

One of my friends has just unearthed this photograph of the seven survivors of 11 V/V Course standing in front of WL623/K at Oakington on 22.06.62. The occasion was the awarding of our RAF wings.

L-R: P/O Jock Manson, F/O Colin Williams, P/O Alan Young, P/O Dave Bowen (behind), P/O Tony Sinclair (in front), P/O Bill Lowe, P/O Derek McLaughlin

Those of you who are interested in these things will notice that the aircraft still has the 4 FTS badge on the nose although we were by then 5 FTS.

[Wyvernfan]

Great recollections and photos Rigex, thanks for sharing :D.


Rob

[ian16th]

A lovely picture of the starboard Rebecca IV receiver aerial :ok:

[JW411]

Actually, I love the white-walled tyres on the trolleyac. This has to be a classic example of "If it moves, salute it and if it doesn't move, paint it!"

[redsetter]

Was originally used for AI.18 development flying, later on had a strike radar installed.

[JW411]

http://www.frpilot.com/Dad/VBHCG.jpg

Here is another one that I found in a drawer.

L-R: WJ917/B WL635/H WJ921/C WL629/G

[Ron Cake]

JW411

Great picture - presumed 4 FTS Valley like your photo posted earlier.
..got any more?!!!

[Herod]

921 is in the book. June 1973, School of Refresher Flying, RAF Oakington

[Ron Cake]

Herod

small point. In 1973 WJ 921 was with 5 FTS Oakington. The School of Refresher Flying was at Manby/Strubby

[spekesoftly]

small point. In 1973 WJ 921 was with 5 FTS Oakington. The School of Refresher Flying was at Manby/Strubby

Ron,

When Strubby closed in 1972, I believe the Varsities and the multi-engine element of SORF moved to Oakington.

[Herod]

Yep, and I was there. First flight May 2nd, last flight Jul 18th. Not a long refresher course; I was off sick for about a month, sitting by the Cam admiring all the lovely female uni students.

[Ron Cake]

Spekesoftly/Herod

The School of Refresher Flying at Manby/ Strubby was part of the College of Air Warfare and all its Varsitys were on CAW strength.

When, in Autumn 1972, the Varsity element of the Refresher School moved to Oakington it was absorbed into 5 FTS and its Varsitys were taken onto 5 FTS's strength.

So, although technically correct, I was being boorishly pedantic -sorry about that.

Ron

[Tea Planter]

Good point, Pontius Nav.
I'm fairly sure we bombed at 18,000ft on some occasions. The operating altitude may have been because of low level ops being conducted at the same time (FGA Hunters as I mentioned earlier).
After 65 years, I have to say that I cannot guarantee the accuracy of these memories.