Vickers Varsity

[Tea Planter]

Great souvenir photo JW411.
I wouldn't have recognised you without the key.
Great days when one could still fit into one's original uniform.
Cheers

[JW411]

I was built like a whippet in those days. Sadly I am now more like a hippo!

[T-21]

Does anybody have the BS spec for the interior Varsity brown please ?

[oldpax]

Another small incident.Went out to the line to watch a crew change,in came the varsity and the ladder was placed for the crew .This time it was students who changed, the QFI staying in his seat,I did the walk round and came back in front of the nose and started chatting to my "oppo"when I saw something very unusual!Lots of liquid in the bomb bay and very dark pink!It was of course hydraulic fluid,I signaled the cockpit and gave the "chop"signal to stop engines which I am happy to say the QFI obliged immediately!!The accumulator was empty, when we had a look ,cant remember where the leak was but it was big and things could have got worse very quickly!!Accident averted!!

[DaveReidUK]

Good old DTD585, I remember it well. :O

[donald d]

Hello, I worked on Varsity's for 8.5 years at Manby and Strubby.

The one at Oakington I was told when there didn't actually complete a loop, it reached 3/4's the way up and that was enough.
I saw it in the hangar and the most obvious thing was looking from front to rear the rudder was about 10 degrees over to port.

If anyone has photo's of Manby Strubby pigs I would be interested in getting copies.

I also worked on Meteors at Strubby 1964/1965 Summer to Spring and 3 Squadron had number 3 hangar on the far side of the airfield and we had up to 22 aircraft both sevens and eights so there wasn't room for any other machines, the Canberras occupied number 1 and 2 hangars on the Control Tower side of the camp.

All the major servicing was done at Manby ASF and the engine bearer changes were done at Strubby using a main jack and block of wood, the Chief Inspector Alan Tigwell led the team that did the work.

The Varsity was a direct development of the Viking/Velletta aircraft, we used to get Valletta's in on a fairly regular basis.

We used to do running changes usually flying four machines, the biggest problem was oil leaks and hydraulic leaks for which we were extremely grateful as it gave us much overtime, as civilians we were paid time and a quarter, time and a half and double time.
We finished work at 7pm Mon- Friday and Saturday mornings plus night flying.

I miss those days very much and shall never forget the sound of both a Meteor entering the circuit a distinctive sound and of a Varsity coming past the top hangar it gave a whistling resonance.
Refuelling at three or four in the morning watching the Sun come up standing on the wing and all the characters that formed 1 Squadron.

[donald d]

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WJ947VarsityT1RAFCAWStrubby16OCT197.jpg
My Varsity archives are legendary!;) Tim, Your wish is granted - here is WJ947 of the College of Air Warfare at Strubby on 16th October 1970.
I have a large collection of top quality Varsity slides and am pleased to show them on this thread.
That photograph was taken in front of the bottom hangar No. 2, I was the tractor driver that placed it there, it was shortly before the colour scheme was changed, we didn't like the new scheme sort of you can't make a silk purse out of a pig !

[donald d]

Strubby closed in October 1972 we had been told that we had a number of years to go in the September, Manby closed in March 1974.

Manby was all spit and polish because of the College of Air Warfare and a Air Commodore in residence, the Group Captain Bailey was a nice man and the Air Comm wasn't.


I did from close of Strubby to the November 1973 at Manby, all those bloody JP's, I went to work in Abu Dhabi and returned in 1974 and started work at the Heliport at Strubby !

A great old place a bit short on amenities, we still had bucket toilets up to 1965 but it was a far better place then Manby.

[donald d]

Strubby never had the Zig Zag stripe.

Pigs with Day Glo =Zig Zag or lightening stripes as we called them came into Strubby on occasion and they were from Stradishall or Bassingbourn, later we got Signals kites in and the Zig Zag was green.

Our Strubby kites were always more or less standard colour scheme and we always felt they should have a distinctif scheme to make them standout.

[lauriebe]

I was at Manby from Sep 70 - Sep 72 and was lucky enough to get a ride in one of the JPs in the Strubby close down formation flypast of the Lincs Air Force stations.

My log has the date of that flight as 20 July 1972 and the aircraft was XP688/22 flown by OC 3/4 Sqn, Sqn Ldr D.... G........

Apologies for the quality of the photo below but the print has not survived that well. It shows the JPs breaking away from the formation at the conclusion of the flypasts.

[SX983]

Some amateur film footage from 1968 attached-unfortunately no sound.

About 2 minutes in the film the train approaches Oakington station, evidently the circuit is busy with Varsities. Some brief footage of the flightline as well.

How things change in 50 years. Railway replaced by a guided busway, airfield replaced by another faceless housing estate.

Watch Cambridge - St Ives online (http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-cambridge-st-ives-1968/)

[oxenos]

Went to 5 F.T.S. Oakington in Jan 1964. Still recall that the joining instructions said" Do not leave the train at Oakington Station. Get off at Longstanton and phone for M.T."

[RLinSW4]

A quick query, I've just come across a not very good photo of a Varsity from 1963 - around Easter. I was at school in Birkenhead and the CO of the CCF RAF section had wangled a week's visit to RAF Gutersloh. Memories fade but we were flown to Wildenrath from (I think) Topcliffe in this Varsity - the interior of which was set out for either navigational or signals training. From the photo the serial was WF329. Would this have been Topcliffe? And what unit would the plane have been from? One clear memory is that we sat on the apron for 45 minutes while trying to start one of the engines.

[DaveReidUK]

From the photo the serial was WF329. Would this have been Topcliffe? And what unit would the plane have been from?

Yes, WF329 served with the Air Electronics School at Topcliffe until written off in a fatal accident there in August 1964.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7106/7024191873_d69799e4b4_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/7024191873/)

[kenparry]

airfield replaced by another faceless housing estate.

Not quite, as yet; the airfield site is still mostly open ground, though housebuilding has started and within a few years will extend over not just the airfield site but a large area to the NW. The resulting new town, Northstowe, will eventually house c.15,000 people. The old SHQ and Officers' Mess have been retained as "heritage" buildings.

[oxenos]

The old SHQ and Officers' Mess have been retained as "heritage" buildings.
Am I right in remembering that there were 2 Officer's messes in the mid 60's?

[kenparry]

Not sure - perhaps someone who was there in 5 FTS days can answer?

[Shytehawk]

I am pretty sure there were if my memory serves me.

[oldpax]

Yes two officers mess,s .One for permanent staff was to the left as you entered the camp gates and the other was behind the airmens blocks to the right of the NAAFI.There was a general car park opposite the students mess and a bridle gate which led down a lane to the "Hoops"pub!

[Fareastdriver]

At the beginning of 1962 the Varsities moved down from Valley to Oakington. I had been at Oakington on Vampires and the our previous course had just passed out. This meant that my course then moved to the main officers mess as was the custom so we let all those piston pilots have the Student's Mess.

My initial flying training was at Tern Hill on Provost T1s. Only two of us were selected for all jet advanced training at Oakington, the rest went to Valley for Vampire/Varsity training. The result of the shifting around was that our fellow students at Tern Hill were fell behind so they ended up as the supporting flight to mine and my colleague's Wings Parade.

:sad::sad::(:confused::{:{:*

[airvanman]

FYI
Viking, Valetta & Varsity Facebook group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1804531073096855/

[RLinSW4]

Yes, WF329 served with the Air Electronics School at Topcliffe until written off in a fatal accident there in August 1964.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7106/7024191873_d69799e4b4_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/7024191873/)
Thanks. Nice photo. Gutersloh in 1963 was a lively place - two busy Hunter PR squadrons, if I remember rightly, and a couple of detached Lightnings always sitting waiting to do something noisy.

[kenparry]

Gutersloh in 1963 was a lively place - two busy Hunter PR squadrons, if I remember rightly,
Close to correct; 2 & 4 Sqns, actually FR - they flew the FR10. (There were no RAF "PR" Hunters, though the Navy had a few PR11s. The difference? FR had guns) Not long after that, 19 & 92 Sqns moved there with Lightnings.

[regentbl]

I was a school boy at Hatton Park school in Longstanton in 1962 and remember the loud drumming noise of the arriving Varsities. We were used to the whistling of the Vampires and a few Meteors. I rushed home to our married quarter called "The Mount" which stuck out onto the dispersal and spied at least half a dozen Varsities parked haphazardly on the grass just outside. I inspected them all and they appeared a motley collection as every single one was painted differently. I remember F Freddy was the coolest looking and J Juliet looked really scruffy! Within a few months I think 5 FTS had the entire alphabet and were soon painted the same. My dad let me inspect the inside of the aircraft and I soon became an expert on the drift sight mounted immediately on the right of the rear entry door. I will never forget the sounds and smells of that aircraft as I drift off flying my 777 now through the ever ending night skies!

[Planet Basher]

Any memories of the Varsities flying at Gaydon?

[Exnomad]

Spent quite lot of hours in the back of a Varsity as a trainee navigator in the 1950s. Trips up to 8 hours, one to Tripoli in the days of King Idris. Re-fueling stop at Istre in France
Based at Bishops Court Northern Ireland near Downpatrick, google earth still shows runways
got my Nav Brevet, still got one at home somewhere.
My logbook does not show full serial numbers, only last three numbers

[DaveReidUK]

My logbook does not show full serial numbers, only last three numbers

All is not lost.

Apart from a couple of oddballs, the RAF's Varsities were serialled WF3xx, WF4xx, WJ8xx, WJ9xx and WL6xx. So knowing the last 3 numbers would be enough should you wish to identify individual aircraft.

[Prangster]

Crew: Air Commode Student and Master Pilot instructor. Detail. Circuits and very bumpy bumps (optional) After one lurching skidding hopping event (I wished that I'd never clambered aboard the beast) master pilot speaketh up. 'And now I'd like to see a normal landing' His highness muttering under his breath 'So would I son so would I'
One VRT officer cramming hanky into mouth to stop ungentlemanly laughing.

[DGAC]

During a student's night flying test at Oakington, the examiner was the Chief Instructor, of Polish descent, who wore a monocle. During the test, the CI gave the student a simulated engine failure, to which the student responded with "Engine Failure Checklist starboard engine". At this point the CI was scrabbling round on the floor and his response was "You vill haff to vait. I haff dropped my v****ng monocle!!"

[RedhillPhil]

Any memories of the Varsities flying at Gaydon?


Only as a 15 year old who was - as several of his pals were - sorry to see the Victors go only to be replaced by grotty old propeller driven things. There were also Valettas, even uglier!

[Yellow Sun]

If you care to take a look here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41003466@N00/2620148767/in/dateposted-public/)you will find a few that I took at Gaydon in 1969.

Happy days!
YS

[LTNman]

The Valetta was very similar to the Varsity, the obvious difference was the Valetta had a tricycle undercarriage.

Forgive the thread drift but this one crashed in Hertfordshire near Tring killing 16 16 Die In R.A.F. Crash - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/16-die-in-r-a-f-crash/query/bovingdon)

[Rossian]

....'twas the other way around. The Valetta was a tail dragger and the Pig had the tricycle gear.

The Ancient Mariner

[oxenos]

Rossian,
The Valetta was a tail dragger and the Pig had the tricycle gear.
Told you you were turning into a seagull

[oldpax]

Once upon a time at RAF Oakington ,a silly "erk"who wanted out of the RAF went round the airfield one night and removed all the towing pins from the nosewheels thus preventing the aircraft from taxying!On the morm he then gave the groupcapt an ultimatem,let me out the RAF or I will not tell you where the pins are !!Of course the group capt won by threatening him with several years in Colchester and the "erk"saw the errors of his ways and duly gave the hiding place up!!So no flying that morning!!He still saw the inside of that correction centre!!!

[donald d]

July was too early for the closure of Strubby and the formation was for AOC's,

The Varsities and Dominies were lined up on the short runway at Strubby, we had to get them all evenly spaced, we then stood in front of the machines along with the crews for inspection, after that they all left to join up with the JP's for a fly past at Manby, I have photo of the Varsity line up at Strubby.

One of the best displays was the Canberras leaving, SQDN LDR Sweet or Love can't remember which one, the names always caused amusement, took off and looped the Canberra as it passed opposite the Control Tower.1966

On the day the Pigs left(1972Oct) Fl Lt Rolfe, his reputation was one of very long starts, the record marked on the crew room window was one hour forty five minutes.

His start on the last day he had number one turning as the student was pulling the ladder in and number two as the student was getting in his seat and nearly had the front wheel off the ground taxiing, after take off he turned straight towards the Control Tower and cleared it by about fifty feet.

Great sights and many memories.

[lauriebe]

donald d.

I beg to differ.

AOC's had been earlier in the year and I was 'nominated' for the Guard of Honour.

I don't recall the flypast in my photos including Manby although the JPs took-off and landed there.

The formation was scheduled for mid-morning but that was delayed until lunchtime due to weather.

The routing was to include Coningsby, Cranwell, Waddington, Scampton and Binbrook. All the stations were overflown with the exception of Binbrook because that was still socked-in.

My memory is that the Varsitys left Strubby shortly after and the Dominies operated from Manby.

I don't recall any Canberras at Manby/Strubby during my time there from Sep 70/Sep 72.

[DaveReidUK]

I don't recall any Canberras at Manby/Strubby during my time there from Sep 70/Sep 72.

The CAW's Canberras were retired in, I think, 1966.

[donald d]

Yes Canberras departed from Strubby in 66 the Meteors had left in the beginning of 65.

The Varsity's moved from Manby to Strubby early 65, the Canberras moved from the Hangars and Pans near the Tower to the other side where the Meteors had been.

Strubby closed in October 1972 and I with other ground crew attended the ceremony held at the flagpole, in the photograph taken at that time 1SQDN Varsities are to be seen in the background. The Dominies moved to Manby a few days before Strubby closed I also have a pic of one of the Dominies taking off.

I don't doubt that the flypast took place but the timing was not just before the pigs left as the June date leaves at least three months before closer.

The pigs left piecemeal leaving the last four to go after the closing ceremony, I was one of the people who formed one of the start crew.

I will try to look through the local newspaper to clarify dates.

We did a detachment at Binbrook whilst Strubby's runways were resurfaced, that was for six very noisy weeks, when the pigs flew back to camp it was billed as the most piston engine aircraft in formation since the war and was on the front page of the local comic.
So no Canberras at Manby 1970-2, don't know where that came from but I do recall them being there for servicing in 1956 along with the Lincolns, at that time a Meteor bellied in on farmland at Stewton.

Interestingly we had a Meteor still in camouflage from the Korean War, the guns were still fitted, it had been in store in Hong Kong, unfortunately it was quickly painted into the dayglow and silver and guns and ammo boxes removed.

I thoroughly enjoyed working on the Meteors it evoked thoughts of the early jet era.

[CharlieJuliet]

Hi d d - was at Manby Sep 64 till Nov 64 as a co on the Varsity and then was on the last Meteor AFTS course at Strubby Nov 64 till Apr 65. In Apr 65 we flew the Meteors down to Kemble for storage/disposal. Were you there at that time? I think that John Scambler was the boss of the Meteor Squadron at that time. We lived in the Nissan huts at Strubby. Great times!!

[donald d]

Yes I was there at that time but returned to Manby as the Meteors disbanded and went off to Kemble.

Did you witness the aircrew race from the Guardroom to the hangar in their cars but driving backwards, it was a non flying day due to bad weather and they had all been to Alford for lunch.

Scambler I remember, he was a stickler a few years later he showed up on a Varsity refresher course, there was also Ray Hanna who went to lead the Red Arrows, Fl Lt Lewis, Fl LT Goadby, Fsgt Soames Waring , Fl Lt Tindall, stretching the memory a bit now.

The domestic site was quite big, its a Golf Course and Caravan site now.

[lauriebe]

donald d,

Have a look at the penultimate post on the thread on the link below.

Date of flight; 20 July 1972.

Jet Provost teams (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?12081-Jet-Provost-teams&highlight=Strubby+formation)

[washoutt]

Beautiful pictures of the Jet Provost, Lauriebe.
It struck me, that the tailplane arrangement of the Jet Provost is very similar to the tailplanes of the Fokker S-14, see enclosed pics.
Has anybody an idea if this was intentional? Did Percival and Fokker had contacts or co-operation on this subject? Or is it coincidence, same mission leading to similar configuration?

[Wander00]

December 65 some of from our entry at the Towers went to Manby for a quick "top up" as we had finished the JP course in October and were off to Valley in Jan 66. I flew with a Flt Lt Bliss then a solo.

[sycamore]

Another site for all things J-P is ..`jetprovostfile.org`...

[donald d]

Wcdr Scambler on Varsity course 1972,1755you will of course remember his hair.

I apologise for the orientation but was unable to correct :ugh:, maybe you can your end :)

[donald d]

I had a trip in a JP, a low level navigation exercise over Yorkshire at 250 feet mostly, it was memorable ride at such low level, I've got the Pilots name in my log. The trip was meant to be a ride in a Meteor 7 so was disappointed when told it was in a jeep.

At this time I worked at Strubby but was also in the Air Training Corps.

I used to get lots of trips in the Varsity over the years there was even a long weekend at Wildenrath, left on Friday back on the Monday there were Harriers there at that time, the camp,Wildenrath is now a Locomotive test track for Siemens.

The trip over Lincolnshire airfields you mentioned it doesn't really mean a lot to the people on the ground, we saw them off and we saw them back in, as it was work these episodes are looked upon as a break in routine.

All the years I was there I didn't get many photographs as officially you were not allowed
To take pictures.

[brakedwell]

It struck me, that the tailplane arrangement of the Jet Provost is very similar to the tailplanes of the Fokker S-14, see enclosed pics.
Has anybody an idea if this was intentional? Did Percival and Fokker had contacts or co-operation on this subject? Or is it coincidence, same mission leading to similar configuration?


I was a development of the original Provost T1 design.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Provcopy.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-26%20at%2016.48.53_zpsp0yc5bfw.jpg

[oxenos]

I was a development of the original Provost T1 design.
Of course, but although they look a generation apart, the P.56 Provost and the Fokker S-14 were in the design stage at about the same time. Perhaps there was some cooperation/ industrial espionage.

[donald d]

Line up on the Short Runway,1758

[lauriebe]

Just come across the site on the link below.

Looks as though there was a final mass flypast at Strubby on 8 Sep 72, the date the station officially closed.

Formation layout for the 8 Sep flypast is the same as on 20 July but with seven Varsitys leading as opposed to just four in the earlier trip.

Strubby (http://www.forgottenairfields.com/united-kingdom/england/lincolnshire/strubby-s1206.html)

[thetexpat]

IIRC Gee was finally shut down around 62/63 so the Nav was probably using Decca which was a broadly similar system.
I was a 'student at 2 ANS, Hullavington, in 1962/3 and we/they were still using GEE Mk.2 AND Mk.4 on the Varsities and, I believe, the Valettas!

[India Four Two]

And they were still using Gee in 1967, when I had my one and only ride in a Varsity, after helping to deliver four UAS Chipmunks from Shawbury to Binbrook for Summer Camp.

The Varsity was flying us back to Shawbury and the nav was using Gee to determine when we were west of the airway (Amber 1?) and when this was reported, Midland Radar strongly disagreed! ;)


Follow up. I've found a Flight article that reported Gee was shut-down on 26 March 1970:

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1970/1970%20-%200586.html

[ian16th]

textpat
I was a 'student at 2 ANS, Hullavington, in 1962/3 and we/they were still using GEE Mk.2 AND Mk.4 on the Varsities and, I believe, the Valettas!

Gee Mk4? Are you sure? I never heard of such a beast.

I was a Radar Mech/Fitter from 1952 to 65, I was trained and worked on at various times on Gee II, Gee III and Gee-H.

This included the Varsity's at BCBS, Lindholme, 1954-56 and these were fitted with Gee-H.

[ancientaviator62]

When I was on 33 in the early sixties our Javelins were fitted with Gee Mk3. This was replaced with a 'radio compass' (ADF) for overseas transits.

[Venture652]

Hi, we all know WF379 is the long nosed Varsity, but in April, 1975 I caught this pic of a Varsity making an overshoot at Birmingham airport. Does any one have any ideas what it was and what it was doing? It appears to have a long nose? Or is this an optical illusion because of the wierd black paint scheme under the nose? Note the starboard tailplane also appears to be black?
Can any one help?
Ahhh, how do I add a pic ?

[oldpax]

You have to add an URL which is a kind of code linked to your picture which will be elsewhere.I was given "Tiny pics"so you can add photos to it and choose the URL code ,try it its straightforward.

[chevvron]

Interersting photo recently on a Blackbushe website Home | Blackbushe Airport - The one-stop Forum (http://www.blackbusheairport.proboards.com) of a Royal Jordanian Air Force Varsity built without the 'bomb bay'. Looked very sleek!

[India Four Two]

Venture652,

An easy way to add a picture, is to look at the lower part of the Reply to Thread page and click on Manage Attachments. Then choose your file and click Upload.

[DaveReidUK]

Interersting photo recently on a Blackbushe website Home | Blackbushe Airport - The one-stop Forum (http://www.blackbusheairport.proboards.com) of a Royal Jordanian Air Force Varsity built without the 'bomb bay'. Looked very sleek!

Can't find a photo on that link, but here's one of the same aircraft:

http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AI/AI56-12/12-1.jpg

Actually a former RAF Varsity (WF416) with the bomb-aimer's pannier subsequently removed, used as King Hussein's personal transport.

[chevvron]

That's the one used on the Blackbushe forum. It's in the section entitled 'Picture of the Day' about 2 weeks ago. a

[pax britanica]

The RJAF picture relaly os the 'ultimate Viking' and really does show the lineage link to the prototype Viscount clearly. I have never really picked up on that before on other Varsities although as it was all Vickers it had to be there somewhere I guess.

[Venture652]

Hi, we all know WF379 is the long nosed Varsity, but in April, 1975 I caught this pic of a Varsity making an overshoot at Birmingham airport. Does any one have any ideas what it was and what it was doing? It appears to have a long nose? Or is this an optical illusion because of the wierd black paint scheme under the nose? Note the starboard tailplane also appears to be black?
Can any one help?
Ahhh, how do I add a pic ?
Thanks oldpax, hope this works. Sorry about the quality, old camera a long time ago and a long way away !!
http://i64.tinypic.com/fopzmd.jpg

[chevvron]

When I arrived at Farnborough, every 2 weeks or so a Varsity c/s 'Bluebell 1' would call out of West Malling and back to West Malling routing anti clockwise around Gatwick, for what purpose I never did find out. Sometime in 1975, the pilot told us this would be the last time this was done, so maybe it co-incided with the one at Birmingham ie was it the same one?
We had several Varsities at Farnborough but I don't recognise it as one of those, although it could be a Pershore based one.

[donald d]

Thanks for posting WJ908 Amos . This machine was struck off RAF charge on 25.1.71 and sent to Manston fire school. Has anybody got any good internal photographs please ? showing the nav stations and bomb bay area of the Varsity.

Did the RAF get value for money out of the Vickers Varsity ? I think so considering it's length of service and different roles. Also the engines and airframe stood up well to intensive use . What do former aircrew and groundcrew think ?
At Manby / Strubby we had twelve Varsity's, eight on site the others going through various servicing cycles at ASF Manby but there was usually four available each morning, it was a great achievement to have anymore it was usually a special event where extra effort was needed to get more serviceable.
Occasionally we might have five on the line but that wasn't often enough to be thought of as usual.
They were what is termed today as "Labour Intensive" and we were thankful for that as it meant much overtime. The engines were the biggest user of manpower with lots of oil leaks and mag drops, it was a continual effort to keep them going whereas the more modern stuff was a breeze in comparison.

[Exnomad]

Did a Navigators course largely in Varsitys in 1952-53. including two overseas trips. Got my brevet in August 1953. The Varsitys were fairly new then, surprise they lasted this long. They often did two 4.5 hour sorties per day. Must have clocked up the hours quickly. I think being in the bomb aimers bay for landing was banned. Gee was used extensively, and gee was accurate enough to line up with the runway. In ground school were were given gee signals as they looked when jammed by the Germans.

[Pom Pax]

Followed in Exnomad's footsteps some 5 years later and the Varsitys were still clocking up hours at that rate or faster, often driven by his late elder brother. This intensive use required 24 hour servicing.
In ground school Gee signals although no longer jammed speeded up to Canberra or even V force speeds. Six minute Gee3 fixing in the Vampires was a lot slower than what was being dished up in the sweat box.

[chevvron]

I was at Topcliffe in 1971 for ATC camp. The Airman Aircrew Training School was there training SNCOs to be Loadys and Air Engineers.
On the wednesday, a Varsity departed for Gib as part of a course. It went u/s on arrival so a second Varsity was dispatched with spare parts and we were told this one would go u/s when it got there thus meaning the trainees and crews of both aircraft would have to spend the weekend in Gib.
Oh dear; 'ow sad; never mind.

[Brian 48nav]

Did my navigator's course at Gaydon in '66 on the Varsity plus some trips in the Valetta 'flying classroom'. Followed by advanced course at Stradishall in early '67, not the new-fangled Dominie for me - still the sturdy old Varsity.
Gee was still the principal fixing aid - very handy for a third position line for exercises involving Astro, Consol,NDBs etc.

[ian16th]

Thread drifted to Gee so a Gee reliability story.

May 2-3 1960, as a dry run prior to the 1st non-stop flight from UK to Singapore, a 214 Sqdn Valiant, captained by Sqdn Ldr J H Garstin, flew around the UK for 18 hours and 5 Minutes. We sent up tankers to top him up a few times.

I was the radar fitter that did the pre-flight and seeing in/after flight.

I had a nights sleep in between :cool:

On landing the Nav gave me his tale of woe and times of each piece of kit going u/s, he was getting ready to do the Astro thing, but his trusty Gee box kept going.

The Valiant was fitted with Gee-H, but with the 'H' bit removed. An odd configuration that added weight without any usable function.

[middlesbrough]

Did my navigators course at Hullavington in1964, we flew in the Varsity, Valetta and Valetta flying classroom. When it came to the Advanced stage the Iraqis who had joined our course carried on to Stradishall, whereas we completed the Advanced course at Hullavington. However we did go to
Stradishall for 12 hours on the Meteor NF14. Many of the pilots at Hullavington were Master Pilots and a fountain of knowledge.
They were happy days.

[chevvron]

Did my navigator's course at Gaydon in '66 on the Varsity plus some trips in the Valetta 'flying classroom'. Followed by advanced course at Stradishall in early '67, not the new-fangled Dominie for me - still the sturdy old Varsity.
Gee was still the principal fixing aid - very handy for a third position line for exercises involving Astro, Consol,NDBs etc.

Funny, we went to camp at Stradishall in '67 and I did fly in a Dominie (captained by Sqdn Ldr Cozens)!! They were reserved for CWOs and Flt Sgts while the rest of the cadets had the Varsity flights.

[cyclic35]

Many thanks to 'CC' who directed me to this thread.

Flew WJ947 at 5FTS RAF Oakington Oct-Dec 1973 (97course)

Other aircraft we flew in various colour schemes
WF326 WF329 WF331 WF371 WF375 WF389(which were older than we the studes)
WF409, WF418, WF419, WF422, WF429
WJ892, WJ902, WJ912, WJ920, WJ941, WJ942, WJ947
WL628, WL629, WL634, WL670, WL671, WL676

:ok:

You flew as my Co on
11th Oct 73 WF409
14th Nov 73 WL629 Weather recall PAR U/S Landed off SRA.

[Tankertrashnav]

More on gee. It was still being used on the Varsity nav trainers at 2 ANS Gaydon in 1969, and I believe the system finally shut down in 1970. I remember a photo of some nav (maybe a student at Finningley) taking the very last Gee fix. I believe it appeared in the RAF News.

[bill fly]

To the tune of Sound of Silence:

Hello Piggy my old friend,
We're going to barrel roll again...

[Pete71]

Hello friends, I am an aviation history enthusiast and I am doing an extended research about military advanced multi engine pilot trainers .
Talking about the venerable Vickers Varsity... Was it the trainer for fiture heavy bombers pilots (Vulcan, Victor, Valiant, Canberra...) or were they selected from the fast jet pipeline?
I know that the Varsity was withdrawn from multi engine pilot training with the RAF in 1976, and replaced by the Jetstream.
In the other hand, the also venerable Avro Vulcan was withdrawn from service in 1982... Did the new Vulcan pilots from 1976 to 1982 received theis advanced multi engine training in the Jetstream?
Sorry for my english and thank you very much in advance!
Sincerely,
Peter.

[India Four Two]

Peter,

Welcome to PPRuNe. There is no need to apologize for your English - it is very good!

I can't answer your questions other than to tell you the Varsity was sometimes called the Pig and that when taxying, there was so much smoke from the engines, that ATC would sometimes think it was on fire! I had a ride in one once. Good memories.

[Cornish Jack]

India 42 - close, but no banana :) ;) The Pig was specifically applied to the Valetta Nav trainer. While the two aircraft had similar porcine outlines (ignoring u/c), the Nav trainer had a row of astrodomes along the upper surface giving the appearance of a line of teats as per nursing sows. The soubriquet additionally became more associated with the Valetta C Mk 1 rather than the Varsity.

[Asturias56]

They're gradually restoring a Varsity Nav trainer at Brooklands - well worth a visit- https://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/explore/our-collection/aircraft/varsity
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/20190115_140158_3fd3860a8f935fc4ac70e59ee22063712ecfbab6.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/20190115_140140_bc01fd22b569c5e6ca34f571bc0c0403ac268279.jpg

[Asturias56]

https://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/explore/our-collection/aircraft/varsity

they're gradually restoring it - well worth a visit

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1365x768/20190115_140140_medium__8ec76377345f2b202c4482bd5435375b3978 76ed.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1365x768/20190115_140158_medium__2a3a2d47e34800858cf8736310897f4d9672 dc98.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

Was it the trainer for fiture heavy bombers pilots (Vulcan, Victor, Valiant, Canberra...) or were they selected from the fast jet pipeline?

In the early sixties all the V force co-pilots came from the fast jet stream. Varsity trainees predominately went to piston transport or, in the case of the last of the u/t sergeant pilots, to helicopters. Super transports, like the Britannia, Comet and VC10 were manned by 2nd tour co-pilots though when Bing Cross took over Transport Command there was an influx of ex Vulcan captains as instant Sqn. Ldr. captains on VC10s.

[ian16th]

A56
Thanks for the pictures.
That Nav's position is very different to the Varsity's that worked on at Lindholme c1954-6.

Of course Green Satin hadn't been invented then!

[Asturias56]

There where 2-3 guys working away - obviously a labour of love

[nipva]

Was it the trainer for fiture heavy bombers pilots (Vulcan, Victor, Valiant, Canberra...) or were they selected from the fast jet pipeline?
By the mid 60s, when I went through the system, streaming from BFTS was done as follows:
Fast jet (Lightning, Hunter and occasional Canberra) to AFTS at Valley primarily on the Gnat or the Hunter if you couldn't fit into a Gnat.
Heavies (V force, Maritime & Transport/AAR) to Oakington on the Varsity
Rotary to Shawbury on the Whirlwind? - not sure after so many years!
At the end of the 60s Fast Jet also included Harrier, Buccaneer and Jaguar.

[possel]

In the other hand, the also venerable Avro Vulcan was withdrawn from service in 1982... Did the new Vulcan pilots from 1976 to 1982 received theis advanced multi engine training in the Jetstream?
I was at Scampton 1980-82 (as an engineer) and we still had 230 Operational Conversion Unit until near the end of 81 (IIRC). Any brand new co-pilots would have come through the Jetstream- there were a few young pilots around then - but I don't know if they just (re-) trained experienced pilots at that late stage

[Herod]

nipva: excuse a similarly-aged aviator, but in the sixties rotary was still at Tern Hill. I was there in '66. Sioux (Bell 47) and Whirlwind. I believe it wasn't transferred to Shawbury until the mid-seventies

[India Four Two]

Herod beat me too it. When I was at Shawbury in the late 60s, most traffic was UBAS/8AEF Chipmunks, and Marshall's Vampires and Piston Provosts that were providing targets for ATC students, There were also the occasional Valley Hunters and Gnats doing practice diversions and sometimes we would get Tern Hill Whirlwinds that would come over for a PAR. Reputedly they would occasionally come to a hover and then climb back out along the glideslope, much to the consternation of the radar students!

[Brian 48nav]

nipva

A school friend and I ( both the same age as you ) joined the RAF in '65 - after
Leeming he went on to Valley. 'Whoopee' he thought ' Lightnings here I come ' . Mightily disappointed to be posted to Vulcans as a co-pilot - then to rub salt in the wound after his first tour he didn't get a skipper's slot and had a ground tour instead.

[teeteringhead]

nipva: excuse a similarly-aged aviator, but in the sixties rotary was still at Tern Hill. I was there in '66. Sioux (Bell 47) and Whirlwind. . Indeed so - IIRC it was '75 or '76 that rotary training went to Shawbury. By then - I think - the Siouxs had gone and it was straight through Whirlwind, except CFS(H) who flew the Gazelle.

Sycamores were still used up to the mid-60s I think, but had gone before I got there in '69.

[Edited to add:
a quick Google suggests Sycamores were still at TH in '65/'66, so looks as if Herod just missed it.]

[Cornish Jack]

Herod - Snap! :ok:

[Herod]

a quick Google suggests Sycamores were still at TH in '65/'66, so looks as if Herod just missed it.
Yep, The Sycamore had just been withdrawn when I started. I believe it was a quick change caused by several accidents to the old beast. My first rotary flight was 1st June '66, and I think it was one of the first courses on the Sioux. Sorry if we've caused thread drift.

[Cornish Jack]

Brain failure ... again!:{

[Cornish Jack]

Arrived at TH in April 64, no Sycamores and Sioux for basic training.

[sycamore]

C-J, I went to TH in May `64 ,lived in secret accommodation(Barthropp House), and did my basic helicopter training on a secret `stealth helicopter` with wooden rotor blades (not the Skeeter,but I did fly that once).There were no `see-thru` Sioux there at the time.Most of my flying was done in the dark or on foggy days to muffle the frantic noise and flaming exhaust as the `stealth `dayglo` paint was re-applied every few sorties,and we operated out of the `topless hangar` to avoid prying eyes..In Aug`64,I was then banished to an Island and even more remote accommodation,befitting my lowly airman status to fly a highly visible `big yellow` hecilopoter........I would, of course ,deny all this ,should I be impeached.......there is no-one under my desk.....

[Fareastdriver]

Arrived at TH in April 64, no Sycamores and Sioux for basic training.

About the time there was a bad accident with a Sycamore where an instructor and student died during a vortex ring demonstration.

I arrived in June 1965 and the basic training was on Sycamores, the Sioux being used for instructor courses. At the end of my course there were a few wobblies with Sycamores so the decision was made to use the Sioux for basic training.

The Sycamores went to Northolt and a couple of years later I had a go in one with Digger Barrell. What I remember is my 3R ducking when we got going because I had forgotten how close the blades went past the roof.

The Sycamore was possibly the best trainer the RAF ever had. If you could fly a Sycamore you could fly ANYTHING!!!!

[Harry Wayfarers]

Was it the trainer for fiture heavy bombers pilots (Vulcan, Victor, Valiant, Canberra...) or were they selected from the fast jet pipeline?
By the mid 60s, when I went through the system, streaming from BFTS was done as follows:
Fast jet (Lightning, Hunter and occasional Canberra) to AFTS at Valley primarily on the Gnat or the Hunter if you couldn't fit into a Gnat.
Heavies (V force, Maritime & Transport/AAR) to Oakington on the Varsity
Rotary to Shawbury on the Whirlwind? - not sure after so many years!
At the end of the 60s Fast Jet also included Harrier, Buccaneer and Jaguar.

I don't believe that Shawbury had choppers during the 1960's, I was at Shawbury during 1976 at a time when RAF Tern Hill was closing and RAF records tend to agree that it was open upon the Tern Hill closure that choppers moved in to Shawbury

https://raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/stations/raf-shawbury/

[Cornish Jack]

Sycamore and FED - I shall plead impending insanity and 84th birthday! I confused my initial TH sojourn (64) with my return in 68. Logbooks are a blessing. My initial encounter with the Sycamore was in Aden in mid 50s. Not ideal operating conditions - make that totally unsuitable!!

[teeteringhead]

This https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/161117 could be the Ternhill Sycamore fatality referred to above. March 1964 and seemed to have been a blade failure.

[BrizeTim10]

Hi all. Found in my late fathers possessions an Astro compass mk2. Not sure how as he got it as he worked in Brize in TCW. I am trying to find some history of it’s use. It has some white pen under the bubble housing. WF380 TF/NU 21 2 69. So any history on that aircraft would be good and what the other letters and date mean. The compass itself is a MK2A ref 6B/399 serial no 657. Also white markings KHI-R-I0-63 not sure what these mean. Would like to try and trace its origins. Any advice for further research would be much appreciated.

[Ka-2b Pilot]

Just to advise you all that one of the last surviving Varsities, WH945 at St. Mawgan, is under threat as the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre is being evicted from its present site by Cornwall Council, who think we can just pick up all our aircraft and move them elsewhere.
More details and a petition here: https://www.change.org/p/save-cornwall-aviation-heritage-centre?recruiter=1275394431&recruited_by_id=a39cdd90-295c-11ed-b1f6-214951929e95&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=email

[JW411]

I think you might mean WJ945. (WH945 was a Canberra).

[Pypard]

Just to advise you all that one of the last surviving Varsities, WH945 at St. Mawgan, is under threat as the Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre is being evicted from its present site by Cornwall Council, who think we can just pick up all our aircraft and move them elsewhere.
More details and a petition here: https://www.change.org/p/save-cornwall-aviation-heritage-centre?recruiter=1275394431&recruited_by_id=a39cdd90-295c-11ed-b1f6-214951929e95&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=email

I thought the CAHC lease had come to an end? If correct, then it's not correct to say that the Museum is being evicted. Aside from WJ945 at Newquay (the former G-BEDV), there are six other complete Varsities extant:

WF369 – Newark Air Museum
WF372 – Brooklands Museum
WF382 - stored for Allied Museum, Berlin
WL626 – East Midlands Airport Aeropark
WL679 – RAF Museum Cosford
82001 – Swedish Air Force Museum, Linköping

[DaveReidUK]

Discussion on Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre closure here (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/648645-cahc-closure-more-ac-losses.html).

[WJ897]

This year is the 40th anniversary of the accident which befell Varsity WJ897 / G-BDFT. A small group of relatives and survivors will be gathering at the site to mark the occasion. Unfortunately in the 15 years which have elapsed since the last such gathering, some of the contact details we have are no longer working.
If you're a relative or if you know of someone who would like to attend, please message us here or via our website's contact page - details of which I can't post here, but search Google for WJ897 and it's the Wix one.
Thanks