EK Airbus DECs

[LHR Rain]

Austraillan friend of mine who is doing his upgrade before the stops come said that Emirates has hired 12 Airbus DECs. Can anyone confirm this? If this is so this is another outrageous item that our beloved company has thrust upon us. FOs are waiting over 4 years and 5 months while our Boeing counter parts are upgrading right at 3 years and now we have to put up with this nonsense. Why hire DECs at all? We do not need them and they are a big pain in the arse. Plus do the Airbus FOs have to wait any longer.
Anyone considering Ek just remember before you come that this is how the company treats its employees. Complete and total disregard of ethics and this is what you want to be a part of? Think hard.

[Payscale]

DECs are a part of EK. It has been so for years. Please tell its not a surprise for you. I dont like it. You dont like it. But its a fact. Now lets move on...

[GoreTex]

they started many years ago hiring DEC's, everybody knows that, its not a sudden change, nothing to complain about, what else is new?

[frieghtdog]

Based on the road show in the us in late may ,they did not take any applications from DEC unless you have a heavy time and mainly 777 capt.

[Payscale]

Of cause. If you look for DECs for heavy, where else would you look. A B373 captain is NOT qualified....

[kingoftheslipstream]

the DEC concept came to fruition in the autumn of 2003... that's 4.5 years ago boys 'n girls... anybody hired around that time or after must have had prior knowledge of the whole thing before comin' here. Quit yer bleating...

The differential in upgrade time between the Boeing and the 'Bus fleets is a drag... but who could've seen the delays in the A380 program? :hmm:

[MasMamak]

DECs...the way for EK's future! If EK sticks to upgrading cry babies, then all is lost.

[411A]

DECs...the way for EK's future! If EK sticks to upgrading cry babies, then all is lost.

Ohhh, tell it like it is...so very true, I suspect.:E

Don't like it? Pack 'yer bags and leave.
Somehow, I don't think many First Officers will leave, as the grass on the other side of the fence now has a more distinctly brown color, than previously.

[Kennytheking]

I think we all agree that DEC's are not a nice thing. I joined accepting the fact that it would happen.............but you don't have to be a prick about it......:=

[jumbo1]

No-one agrees with the DEC principle. However, if you have no job it's a no brainer. Would you not take a DEC job at EK because you might offend some FO's feelings of righteousness? No way. How many delayed FO's here can honestly say that when they leave EK one day they will not go as a DEC anywhere? Will you all insist on joining a new company as an FO because you might upset someone? Nyet!
6 years ago things were the other way round. Boeing guys waited while Airbus guys upgraded on time.
Big Picture? So what! You will all upgrade.
I still don't agree with DEC's and I do agree that many have been hard done by. I do appreciate the financial implications and everything else related to this issue.
Keep the blue side up fellas
J

[MTOW]

the DEC concept came to fruition in the autumn of 2003...I think you'll find a few EK pilots who had their commands delayed significantly by DECs many, many years before 2003. Try 1992 - (Ask any grey haired old timer about Erwin K., that fine DEC from 'over there'. [Do, it's quite a story, and from what I've heard from FOs, we've got a few Erwins among the current crop.])

With the sudden glut of yo-know-whos from across the pond now available and clamouring for jobs, (even with 'them Ay-rabs'), I fear we're going to see a lot more of them, on all fleets. (Note that I said 'all', not 'both' - I include the big 'un, and sooner than many might believe.)

[LHR Rain]

Everyone is missing the big picture here. Well all of you SCs are defending Ek for hiring DECs the question is begging to be asked why hire Airbus DECs when FOs are waiting 4 yrs 5 mths to upgrade? It is not like they are not qualifed, just a victim of real ****e airline practices.

[pool]

Not defending the policy, but looking at "the big picture":
1 training cycle with FO + DEC produces 1 usable crew.
1 training cycle with FO + upgrader produces 1 usable crew, but needs 1 new training cycle for a new FO as replacement for the upgrader.
From the beancounter point of view it's a no brainer.

[5star]

Check the seniority list. Do you see DECs appearing? Ok, maybe 1 or 2 per month (out of 40-50 newhires or so). Problem solved.

There is a lot to say about this subject and it is a very sensitive one I know, but sofar I personally have the impression that EK is NOT stuffing their FOs.
Some guys just have been very very unlucky (mainly AB) but
oooh boy...you know how low the brainpower in some departments is over here...:rolleyes: They just get their numbers wrong now and then.....sad but true...

[MatRempit69]

Jumbo 1

I still don't agree with DEC's and I do agree that many have been hard done by. I do appreciate the financial implications and everything else related to this issue.


As much as you do not agree, but that's logistics and a buisness world. You have just agreed the financial implications and everything else related issue BUT yet you don' agree.!! :ugh:

Just see what' happenning innUSA, my dear friend! You want the airline to shut dowm and or salvage a JOB! :rolleyes:

Happy landings!

[5star]

Ok, I was wrong....
EK is hiring DECs on the Boeing again and this while Boeing FOs upgrade has been delayed by 4-6 months;
Not to mention the Bus guys who are waiting >4 years now.
Wankers :yuk:

[williewalsh]

5 star,
Without prejudice
I believe someone has already pointed out that the current DEC policy was active 4 years ago. So I assume you mean that people waiting 4 years joined 4 years ago. They should have considered this potential situation then as part of their evaluation.

Its a dead argument. People who had served their time and were then shafted by the introduction of this policy had a valid grievance. Joining in full knowledge of the policy is only the responsibility of the individual and their own risk assesment of the chances of getting shafted.

You made a decision to take a bunch of expat managemnet lackies at their word.
I didnt .With the same information as was available to you i decided to walk away from giving up a left seat for an f/o job 4 years ago at ek for exactly those reasons. I would have been shafted as it turned out. Many mates who joined since had no such problems and are all skippers at EK with joining dates as f/os post 05.
I had more experience at the time than my mates but joining 1 year earlier...it would have been my call and mine alone to join . Not their later good fortune or anything else causing me grief.
The morale of the story its a judgement call and life is sometimes a bitch.
I have since had a dec contract on the table and am big boeing and bus qualified again Ive walked away last year. Lets see. This time it might be the wrong decision particularly inlight of the credit crunch.
Your current bad luck is unfortunate but not a factor in managing my own career nor mine a factor for you.

If I get laid off and you get your command a year late , will I be on here blaming my decision on people like you for slagging off DEC as a reason for not joining. No I wont. I'll just get on with it.

If I were offered an escape from redundancy by ek as a dec would your predicament affect me....not a jot. You see we share a profession not a parent.

Thats how it is. Its not personnal.:ugh:

[jumbo1]

Matrempit

You clearly dont understand my post. The point I am making is I do not agree with the DEC principle. I accept that it is business practice and I am sympathising with my fellow colleagues who have been financially detrimented by this policy and had their commands delayed by this policy- after our management expressly promised a few years ago that this would not happen. Often by pilots with NO widebody time and/or long haul experience.
So, my friend, aviation in the USA aside, I accept that this policy exists but I do not have to like it. I also clearly state that if anyone does not have a job it's a no brainer. I dislike a policy that has been applied in a flawed manner - nothing to do with jobs, company survival etc etc.
Try read my post again - carefully!
Then you will get my point. You need to understand our company politics before criticising.

Happy landings
J
:ugh:

[NO LAND 3]

Once you've got your 3000 hours left seat you'll be looking for DEC jobs out of here just like every one of us. V Aus, Korean, Jetstar, Vietnam, Jet, etc etc etc.
Tell me I'm wrong...!

[-9capt]

What's the deal with "accelerated command"?

I hear that if you have a lot of left seat time EK will upgrade you in 6-12 months. Is that true? Do they put that in writing?

[halas]

There is a caveat on accelerated command -9.

Ask your friends to quote the relevant section of the FOM to you.

halas

[Trader]

Willie - agree 100%. The difference though is most guys on here are complaining about the policy (ie. about the company) and NOT the DEC himself. In that regard they can complain all they like - whether they knew about the policy or not does not diminish their complaint. It is unfair-period.

An FO should be able to sit and have a beer with a DEC, enjoy the conversation and be able to say "I dislike the DEC policy but I have nothing against the DEC personally". It is the FO's who have issue with the DEC himself that should keep themselves in check. Likewise the DEC's should keep their mouths quite and go about their business without throwing it in the faces of the FO's.

99% of the time the DEC's and FO's at EK are fine.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

nl3

you Are Wrong!!

[-9capt]

What makes you think I have any friends?

[Lord Flashhart]

eklawyer wrote-while many in training know they are struggling still with the base equipment, having had no previous EFIS and 10 line training sectors so its not the FO's fault

That is a fairly big call. I know quite a few of the guys going over- Ex Efis time, been with the company 2years,etc, and while I am not privy to their performance in the sim, seem to be good operators. Additionally none, of the ones I know had 10 line training sectors, they were trained before that change took place.

Just trying to provide a balanced view.

[fatbus]

wait for the 5 year FO freeze on the 380, if you think you will upgrade in 2 years after going the 380 you better have a rethink and maybe try to get off or just ask those how have aready tried with no success

[pitoss]

The first time I see a flight control computer over-controlling an ACFT.:eek:
New times in aviation!
Thanks God I'm in the Boeing!!!:\

[Fearless Leader]

I was shocked to hear that discipline has dropped at EK to the point that football scores are requested on acars. What next ...Buying the DECs a drink on a slip....Well stranger things have happened


How does requesting football scores equate to a drop in disipline?

[williewalsh]

Tough room:ok:

[330 Man]

Ok williewalsh,

This is how it works. On a flight to MAN a pax asks the purser if she can get an update on the man u score. The purser asks me if I can get an update on the man u score. I use the acars to ask dispatch if they can get the latest man u score. Dispatch sends me the latest man u score which I forward to the purser who gives it to the pax. The pax is extreemly happy and satisfied that the captain on the emirates flight can get the latest man u score. This is why he will ALWAYS fly emirates and not your crappy airline with it's totally disiplined pilots. And it is all because I am so undisiplined. And I have been undisiplined with the acars more than once! I am ashamed beyond belief! Yea right!

If you are serious and not "yanking our chain" than you have lost the plot. If you are "yanking our chain" it was a good one. Hats off.

Love to all,

330 man

[williewalsh]

Yank Yank. Like I said tough room.
The dubai flat earth society at its best.:ugh:

try noughts and crosses on acars much more fun.
Count the spaces to make the matrix and send.
Copy repeat play, copy repeat play until there is a winner.
Hope that establishes my yanking credentials.

Too many people with colons for scenery.;)

[dooner]

Keep working the audience Willie, they are a tough crowd tonight, you'll get a laugh out of one or two of them sooner or later;)

As to the 5 year freeze that comes from everyones friend AAR, who knows if he will get his way but stand-by...

As for discipline, I guess all leave will have to be cancelled until moral and discipline improve!!

Dooner:ok:

[kingoftheslipstream]

willie - dooner was right: I'm laughing!

I use the acars for that kind of stuff all the time - it's perfect. I even use it iaw the FOM occasionally!:O

[White Knight]

NL3 - yep, you're wrong......

As for the acars, well I can't think of a better way to follow the cricket!! Already got the metars and tafs:ok:

[NO LAND 3]

Doh! .

[Rabbitwear]

A friend called EK recruitment to ask about DEC positions on the A380, He is currently Captain on 330/340 , he was told to apply and positions may be availiable in approx 18 months.

[Payscale]

I coundnt give a rats a++ about footie, cricket or chess scores. But I do provide them via ACARS if a pax requests them. Its a few dollars towards a customer service..

[halas]

Many Septembers ago, logged on to YMMM, asked for the half time score of the grand final.

Got ten minute updates, 12 messages all up!

No ACARS involved. How professional is that?

halas

[White Knight]

MMMmmm Halas - would this be the same YMMM that report you to teacher if you use 'FREE TEXT'? Oh the evil of the free text on the ATC menu:{

Oh well - that's orstralian for you:p

[wickednoel]

Okay, so i'm only an aspiring commercial pilot for the time being... But I struggle to understand why Emirates FOs hate decs? Rationally speaking anyone whom had had their command with a top airline on the same/kind of aircraft would want a similar position within their new company?? Is that so unreasonable? Or are decs just a bunch of overpaid bullies with nothing better to do than give fos a hard time whilst listening to music from their iphones. Because presumably decs can afford iphones...

[mensaboy]

Wicked dude,

First off F/O's don't universally hate DEC's. A minority of DEC's that have come here do deserve every bit of slagging thrown their way, but not the majority. F/O's and Captains alike, hate the DEC POLICY !!

This is why....
It disadvantages all F/O's because it delays upgrades. This in turn affects every aspect of quality of life.

The company policy is to upgrade in this order.... Suitable F/O's, then Accelerated Command types........ then if necessary due a lack of the aforementioned....... DEC's. The company is not following their own, non-debatable, policy.

There is no need for DEC's. In the past 5 years, when this policy has caused so much grief, there has not been one moment when there was not a suitable F/O waiting for upgrade.

The company has further exascerbated the stupid policy by frequently hiring pilots with less experience and might I add, less suitability, than F/O's already at the company.

It has been an exercise in cost savings without concern whatsoever for those it affects negatively.

If the pilot profession was considered a management position, then a company could argue that they should be able to hire any pilot they wish and place him in any position they wish at any time. It would be like a surgeon moving to a different hospital and taking up a position senior and better paying to his new peers, presumably because he was more qualified. The pilot profession is not the same. Seniority is everything in a company, something about which you will learn in short order.

When a company messes with seniority then they are playing with fire. There is little incentive for F/O's to join a company, which results in a potential crisis in recruitment (something we went through), as well as the fact that no longer will the most qualified and most suitable F/O's seek employment with said company.

[icarus sun]

DEC have been in emirates since the start of the company.Any FO who did his homework will have known that, If you did not not do your homework who is to blame?. Not DEC,not company .

[Gillegan]

DEC have been in emirates since the start of the company.Any FO who did his homework will have known that, If you did not not do your homework who is to blame?. Not DEC,not company .

Sorry - not entirely true. There was a significant period of time where it was the stated policy to NOT hire DEC's. It is true that the policy changed about 5 years ago so it shouldn't come as a surprise to those who have joined since then.

[broad sword]

The company line is it's cheaper to get a DEC than do transition upgrades.

1. So why do we have DEC's on the 777 or airbus with F/o's being delayed. No need for transitions at the moment.

2. If it's cheaper to hire a DEC than upgrade an F/O, why is the company upgrading any first officer?

3. Why is anybody joining as an F/O? (Jobless excused)

4. DEC's say "don't moan to us, blame the company. You'd do the same etc"
I say lets see the current DEC's moan if the new DEC's came in on higher pay point's, or on commuters rosters or even based!!!

5. You're a DEC you're not needed so shut it!!!