USA/CAN Commuters

[Tornado Ali]

Because of CX's luddvillian attitude towards jumpseat privileges, many off us are now faced with spending upwards of 25% of our monthly income on just getting to work. Last week, the only ticket I could get to travel from Florida to LA was over $400....one way. I was able to use a pass getting back home thankfully. With the NA carriers rapidly reducing domestic capacity and quickly raising prices, pretty soon we will not be able to travel to work without it costing us more than we earn. I cannot 'move' from Florida because I am caring for a very ill relative. Most NA pilots benefit from being members of a system called CASS, which allows each others pilots to travel on each others carriers for free. Most of the NA airline managements realise that it is in their best interest to allow their employees to have an economical way of getting to and from work. Just last week, United announced that some of their domestic tickets will now require a 4 day stay. That will start making things even more difficult. When will CX management start to HELP make it's employees lives a bit easier, instead of always making them more difficult. Give reciprocal jumpseat rights to NA carriers, and they will offer the same. There is no excuse. Very soon I won't be able to afford to come to work....:mad::ugh::sad:

[Apple Tree Yard]

To all of you who are contemplating joining CX, consider carefully the above statement. In the US, most pilots just walk up to a counter and are given a free pass to ride on the plane to whatever destination they are needing to get to. We however are the poor stepchild of the industry when it comes to this. We are told we 'are not on any js agreement'..and are politely told to move aside so they can help the next passenger in line...

Unless you are willing to live in LA, the cost of getting to work is rapidly increasing. Round trip tickets between cities is predicted to rise towards $750 round trip by the end of the year. With reduced capacity, we won't be able to use our (limited) reduced fare tickets that we can obtain (standby only). A colleague at United told me that they have been told that next year the success rate of standby travel for staff is projected to drop to below 20%...and that is for their own employees! We won't have a chance of commuting any more. Living in LA is prohibitively expensive, and almost unaffordable on CX's salary. We don't enjoy any of the benefits of other airlines (CX even makes a profit from it's own staff when we buy a staff travel ticket!).

Consider all the issues before you come to work here. Many of the options that facilitate the access to work are rapidly ending. If CX would get off neurotic arses and get us access in CASS, then this would not be a problem. Of course, that would be seen as us obtaining an 'unfair benefit' over the other staff wouldn't it...? :bored:

[BusyB]

We are not allowed access to CASS as we are not a US carrier. Much time was spent trying to organise this in the past, unfortunately unsuccessfully. I understand that if you show a CX ID some Captains let you travel on a cabin crew jumpseat. Good luck.:ok:

[The Kook]

Ah, the magic jumpseat. Where all pilots will make the flight for free.

Thank the FAA, not CX

[Apple Tree Yard]

it's not the FAA that has a problem..IT'S CX...:ugh::ugh:. For your info, EVA, China Airlines and several other overseas carriers have reached agreement with several domestic US airlines to use jumpseats (cabin only due to being overeas airlines). They have done that by offering US carriers reciprocal js rights in return. CX is too damn small minded to do such a thing. The reason is that they seem to enjoy making our lives more difficult than necessary. Back in the nineties, CAL, AmWest and another couple of airlines offered us js privileges. The DFO of the time, Ken Barley said NO...becuase he didn't want to reciprocate. As domestic fares in the US rise rapidly, and the availability of standby ID90 disappears...be sure to drop by the 3rd floor and express your appreciation (that is if you are even able to show up for your flight in LA etc...).

[BusyB]

ATY,

I think I said cabin crew jumpseats!!!:ugh:

[Apple Tree Yard]

...my point was that there is no 'formal' agreement. We have always been able to go 'begging' with any operating crew of a US airline...you just never know where you stand because you have no contractual arrangement. What I am referring to is that the airlines I mentioned are listed on the relevant US carriers 'approved js list', and can be given a cabin seat. They are entitled to it if available....we are not. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[BusyB]

I'll take your word for it concerning the approved list.

No-one is entitled to a jumpseat though. Its always at the discretion of the Captain and crew.:ugh:

[Apple Tree Yard]

ok..semantics. The POINT is that there is a big difference between being on an official, negotiated list, and being a beggar...like us. There, happy now? :)

[The Kook]

What difference does it make for a cabin seat. If there is no seat you are not getting on no matter if its a "jumpseat" or a ID90. Besides, the cabin jumpseat is dead last on most standby lists.

[Apple Tree Yard]

listen up: it's about commuting without spending upwards of $700+ frigging dollars per trip moron. If we have an agreement, we can get on the aircraft for free. Obviously if there is no seat we wouldn't get on...:mad: Do you want an agreement or not?

...why do I bother...:ugh:

[thepounder]

I am pretty familier with US jumpseat rules, and I can tell you that CX can do absolutly nothing to get in the actual jumpseat. As others have pointed out, getting on a seat using the jumpseat list will be next to impossible. Most airlines give those using a pass a higrer priority than a jumpseating pilot, so you have a better chance of getting on using a pass. I am all for trying to get all airlines on jumpseat lists, but dont think that just because you are on that list your commute will be easier.

[rjmore]

Where it would really make our lives easier is on carriers that we don't have an ID90 agreement with. Take Southwest for example. Not only that but there may be a time when my usual commute is full but say United has some seats. I can't get to HKG and back with a few days notice for a pass to be placed in my mailbox when I need to get on a United flight in the next hour and a half. Jumpseat agreements create flexibility. For the few times we would give rides to guys in an empty seat, it would be more than worth it.

My previous airline had an agreement with EVA. We only got one route with them, SEA-EWR. In return for that they got our entire network on the approved list.

[Fuzzy Math]

Guys, get it through your thick heads. Cathay is not a North American carrier. They don't care how much it costs you to get to work. You're paid to be at work on time and how you get there or what you pay to do so is not their problem. You may be an American and live in America but you're working for a Hong Kong airline with some of the worst managers and industrial practices in the airline industry. The quicker you realize this aint ever gonna be United the better.

[baseddude]

Tornado Ali:

Suggest you visit the B744 fleet office and offer your services in getting reciprocal J/S agreements implemented.

I think you'll find a receptive ear on the 3rd floor, and your offer of help will be received cheerfully.

Baseddude.

[The Management]

If you don’t arrive for your rostered duty, Crew Control will have no other choice than to assign you a “Missed Duty”. If that happens, there will be consequences. You have been warned.

You accepted the job and the base; we don’t care about your financial troubles. Arrive for you roster.

We in Management receive a travel fund which is equal to full fare Business Travel to your home port, if you are Hong Kong Based of course. This allowance includes Myself and My Family. We also receive a Free Of Charge ticket, priority 4 every year.

If we use our FOC tickets, we spend the travel fund on ID tickets to travel and it more than covers our ID travel expenses. We also use it for hotels.


We will NEVER allow any person to travel on our aircraft for free. We are not a charity Airline, we are a full service airline and with that comes a price. We don’t allow our own staff to travel for free on jumpseats, so we will not allow others. If you travel on a jumpseat you will pay the full ID 90 Y rate, the same as our employees.

Yes we do make a profit from our employees but that is a good business practice. It adds to my bonus and that is the bottom line.

If you are a Manager, traveling on company business, we will ask you to request a jumpseat from the commander and travel on that seat. This will free up an extra business class seat for a full fare paying passenger. This also adds to my bonus.

We are in the business of making profit, not happy employees. If you don’t like it, leave. There is always someone that will do your job for less. Live with it.

To My Bonus.

The Management

[uspilot]

Just a quick question

Don't you guys get your roster a 15th of each month, for next month. So why can't you just buy some ID90 in advance since you know already when you have to go to work. I am just trying to understand the system.

[FIRESYSOK]

So, you have advance notice in buying a standby ticket. What good does that?

[teedub]

Having come from a previous Amercian carrier (see username) I too experienced the pain of JWS (jumpseat withdrawal syndrome), added to which, several conversations to senior pilots who had tried extensively to initiate a recipricol js policy in the states only to be shot down time and again, drove the final nail in the coffin of "all hope for jseats at cathay".

I spent near to $10K over a year and a half commuting up and down the east coast. Very frustrating etc etc....However!

The Managements post hit the nail on the head! Its ALL about the money!...and at the risk of being slated across these boards consider the position of CX amercian based pilots over amercian based amercian pilots!...Anyone at CX really worried about a furlough?...Or bankrupcy?..sure there are lots of things that are hard to stomach when we comapare CX to US work rules and "culture" but as previous posts mention its a Hong Kong company!!!!!...and in the current US economic climate its not ALL bad to be in that corner!!

I like many of you all would be no where near Hong Kong if 911 and the economic decimation of our industry had not occured. We'd all likely be still at "AA/US/US etc etc" bidding half the month off, commuting first class across the country or up and down, saving thousands on costs each year, flying in a relaxed, "big picture" culture, looking forward to the sim as somewhere to brush up and learn (you get the picture)....

Suppose what I am trying to say is would you REALLY like to give up ALL the benefits at CX for the benefits of JS.....

It is hard to move on from the JS menatality but when faced with the CX response as too why we can't have js

OIC

cheers

[Fly747]

I'm based in Europe, based pilots live all over Europe. We are expected to turn up at our base on time and ready for duty, what an imposition.
Why don't we get free flights from wherever we want when we want?
Incredible eh! Spams!!

[Oval3Holer]

I heard that many Jet Blue Captains will allow a CX pilot a free seat in the cabin (not the cabin crew jumpseat). Go to the gate (you must be in uniform) and ask the gate agent who will then direct you to the Captain. It is not against any FAA regulation for the Captain to allow you to board the aircraft for free. However, as we are not on any approved jumpseat list, nor CASS, getting on the plane is far from a definite.

[flynhigh]

Guys

I am a jetblue pilot. I am going to make some phone call and talk to few people in our company to see if we can offer you guys some sort of JS like Cabin only or even maybe you pay a small fee like tax or $50.00 fee. Please let me know if you guys would like me to do that. Also does CX need to know about this, if so please let me the person I should contact at CX so that I can advise he/she about what I am doing. Wish me like and please give me some idea about what would work for you guys.

Fly safe

[Hellenic aviator]

Hmm.....

Prior to 9/11, I used to jumpseat on UA constantly from LAX and SFO to HKG and back. All I paid was the departure tax ex HKG (which was 'peanuts'). UA was kind enough to offer me F or J class, even provide me with a F or J class meal. At the end of the flight, as I would go up to thank the guys up front for their kindness, I'd be thanked by the crew for flying with them ! Those were the days....

Domestic U.S. was just as good - I used HP (America West) and they too were just as professional as well as accommodating. Prior to 9/11, we actually were on HP's jumpseat list !! I saw their list and we were there amongst EVA, SQ, NCA, JAL, to name a few. WN also allowed us to jumpseat albeit we weren't on their list.

Apple Tree Yard mentioned our previous DFO, a regular 'Mr. Personality' refusing to reciprocate the jumpseat privilege. True....but even so, we still were on HP's and JetBlue's list. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was a B744 Capt. who was living in the Caribbean, commuting to our (then) pax JFK base who was on the AOA Commitee. It was because of him that we were fortunate enough to be placed on a couple of U.S. airlines jumpseat lists.

Having come from a previous US carrier like Teedub, I agree that if you have been exposed to such privileges, you suffer from JWS.

The economic times have changed, this is a new benchmark we are dealing with, the "good ol' days" are just that. :uhoh:

[flynhigh]

UPDATE

Guys I was able to set up a meeting next week with few people in my company (JetBlue) with regard to Cathay pilots JS with us. wish me luck.....

[rjmore]

Thanks for your efforts!

[Cumguzzler]

flynhigh,

Many thanks!!!!! Pls keep us updated...

[Dead Head]

Thanks flynhigh.
I have always found the Jet Blue crew the friendliest in the industry. We could all learn a little from them.

[Fuzzy Math]

I've asked for upgrades at Cathay and never got in trouble. Haven't got any but thats besides the point.

Also the new policy is that if economy is full they will upgrade staff over full fare passengers. Sounds kind hearted of Cathay but it's to encourage full fare pax to pay for an upgrade as so many were coming to expect it, especially the frequent flying card holders.

Just for info every time I have traveled out of Australia on ID with QANTAS( only twice ) I have been upgraded on board when I mentioned to the crew I was Cathay staff. How's that for looking after your employees.

[texas145]

Good luck, flynhigh, and thank you.

My only question is, if there is an open seat, especially on the freighter, why NOT give it to at least a CX pilot, if not another pilot? The seat is traveling independent of whether or not a person is occupying it.

[Mr. Bloggs]

CX says you must be on the General Declaration to travel on the freighter, but that is their version of it. :zzz:

My question is, why can I travel on Fed Ex and not be on the GD. BTW, thanks Fed Ex guys.:ok:

I like many would love to give JS to other pilots but CX disagrees.:(

[thepounder]

All,

CX would not be allowed to carry jumpseaters on the freighter on international flights to and from the US. FEDEX and UPS are not allowed to do it right now either. POLAR and Atlas can, if you are in CASS, which CX pilots do not have access to. You must understand that jumpseating in the US is governed less by company policy (which before 9-11 it was) and more by the TSA and FAA. CX could offer cabin jumpseats, but in my experience, few if any foreign airlines offer that. some offer the ability to sit in FA jumpseats if the flight is full but you still have to have a pass like an ID 90 and use it.

[Dan Winterland]

Jumpseating on a HKG registered freighter is made particularly hard because HKG freighters are certified for cargo only. This means that only people directly connected with the operation are allowed to travel on board.

[Cider30]

So when some girl in ANC needs a new uniform or the ORD cargo manager travels with us to HKG, they are directly related to the operations. Bit of a stretch I think. We even stay on board after duty, e.g. LAX-YVR after operating into LAX.

Fact is CX could have us on board whenever, just put us on the GD, and you have to be backup crew for the operating crew should somebody go sick. If JS on the freighter was of any priority to the company, if would have happened yesterday.

Cider30